/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>5403633

>>5403633

You don't cash out. You don't pay taxes.

>mfw IRS boomer faggots are trying to calculate the taxes on my unrealized ETH to DOGE to TRX to XRP to XLM to LTC to XMR to LINK to ADA to BTC to FUN to DASH to NEO to ETC to ZEC to LSK gains

>>5403738
>implying it would take more than a few months for a gang of top autists to design a program that does just that

>>5403738
This
Some people here are just fucking retarded...capital gains are calculated in UNITED TATES FIAT DOLLARS not internet fun bucks, I’ll gladly pay a tax once the actual money is in my hands untill then I could lose it all why would I pay taxes on a risk/unrealized gain

>>5403863
the Feds will subpoena the Exchanges for the records. you will be liable for. every. Single. Buy. Or. Sell. Whether. You. Made. Money. Or. Not. It. will. Be. A. Sales. Tax. Did. You. Get. That. Through. Your. Thick. Skull. It. Is. Ov. Er.

Rip

>>5403968
teen girl post, get out

>>5403633
>but muh Blumpf
>M-m-maga, r-right g-guys...?
>muh /ourguy/

Fuck that son of a bitch and his kike family.

ANARCHO CAPITALISM IS THE CREED FROM NOW ON

>>5403633
What you want, what, whatcha gonna do?

When the president gon come for you?

ATO has a cap gains tax too, but dunno if it applies to every trade. Theyre still too stupid to even realize what crypto is. Monopoly gambling still safe in australia.

We need to get all the big whales together so we can reclaim some land in the pacific there somewhere out in international waters and start our own fuckin country and tell these cunts to get fucked.

>>5403968
Talking. Like. This. Makes. You. A. Fuckin. Yank.

Here, tax this.

>>5403968
>>5403968
im calling bullshit nigger, how are you going to subpoena an international exchange for anonymous transaction records whose funds were imported and exported to and from anonymous wallets whose funds were transferred in anonymous amounts.
pro tip: you can't
all you can do is tax it as capital gains when it becomes USD which is fair.

>>5403738
The IRS has supercomputers with software that can scan the crypto blockchains. They will know every buy/sell order you've every made on every cryptocurrency.

>>5403738

>mfw people are calculating my taxes on WoW gold to health potions

>>5403968
feels good not to be american

>>5403738
>implying they won't just have some guys write an computer algorithm to do it for them

DECLARE YOURSELF AS A BUSINESS YOU FUCKING CAPITALISTS

>>5403968
tax my 99% confido losses nigger

>>5404131
Let's go to some African shithole and take it over. Like Namibia for example, which has a pop of ~4 million, amongst them a couple hundred thousand white people. It's the size of California and has access to the Atlantic.

>>5403738
>hire crypto autist
>force all exchange offering services in the USA to submit data
>REKT

so when i trade 50k gold for some stupid fucking mount on a private wow server how much in taxes do i pay

>>5403633
trump is a fucking lying sleazebag moron

>>5404256
you pay the gain in USD from the cost basis on the gold, are you fucking brain dead?

>>5403738

no you have too, and if you get in wrong you go in the cells with bubba and co.

>>5404167
>tripfag
>emulating android for blockfolio worth $12 in ark
woah

>>5403738
you realize they have compjuters that do it automatically? all you history is logged on an exchange, they don't have to do shit.

enjoy getting double teamed by tyrese and jamal and dying of AIDS

there are plenty of bitcoin ATMs in Usa. Doesnt that mean you can just withdraw money there without reporting income on the tax report?

>>5403793
They are't allowed to automate the process, it has to be done by hand.

>>5403633
>RIP CRYPTO
In one country

>>5404294
so when i pay molten wow $100 for $100k wowgold and they change their prices to $150 for 100k and the secondary market adjusts, do i owe gains? what if i bought a stupid mount with the 100k after the gains set in, but then the mount market crashed? note that at this point i have already used the mount and it is non-transferable.

>>5404351
I aint got a mobile phone. Aint got time for it. What sort of soyboy owns a mobile phone?

Im a busy man. Got coins to hold.

>>5403633
This is the end for you Amerifats, don't think that you have any control over Crypto, the miners aren't even in USA

>>5404249
I thought about that.

We should go invade that smug bastard Chad, but it's landlocked though. So we cant build a navy.

>>5403793
> gang of top autists
kek'd so hard and spilled my 1$ noodles
you own me 0.2 btc for my fucked up macbook pro

>>5404413
I'm not an autist I don't know what any of that shit means. IRS doesn't care about $100 in wow. they are going to care about crypto though.

>>5404447
>implying apple anything is worth 0.2 btc

>>5403633
>tfw the IRS has programs to calculate all of these transactions and what we have to pay
>tfw they will never release it to us
They literally want to fuck people

>>5404167
>NoxPlayer

enjoy your Chinese malware faggot

>>5404390
Those ATMs have cameras. They record the faces of anyone who uses the machines. Since the gov't already has an facial image database of every citizen, it's just a matter of matching the face with the identity using facial recognition software.

>>5404224
Can you give me a run down on this?

>>5404541
Enjoy your fuckin chink shit phone that costs $1k m8

PhoneFags btfo

>implying that anyone will actually report 100% of their like-kind trades

>>5404556
>2 years ago
>get Xbox One w/ kinnect
>walk into the room to get my wallet
>facial recognition activates my Xbox and signs into my account
into the trash it went

Cool, America lagging behind again. There is no sales tax in Europe because that's obviously retarded for a cryptocurrency.

>>5404614
>>5404614
This
Anyone know if welfare neets use their monthly check to buy prepaid visas to invest in crypto?

>trump saves america from the inevitable tyranny of the cashless beast system
>gets shit on by neets with dreams of lambos

>>5404105
>being retarded enough to think a certain political belief will change anything
politics is the ass of society, culture is the brains once you have a full trust society thats when the good times come. Until then youre just a dumb individualist goy

Gains made from trading assets for other assets will obviously be taxed. Why would an exception be made for cryptos? They are assets. If there are capital gains taxes, then your assets are going to be taxed. You should have supported removing capital gains taxes instead of complaining about the rich exploiting loopholes that you yourself now want to exploit.

>>5404841
Im guessing these new rules will apply to next years taxes and not this years?

>>5404783
If you can tell me how we can create a high trust society within the next thirty years I'll listen. If not, shut up with you hogwash.

>>5403968
i keep everything on blockfolio you think they will subpoena there

>>5404224
Teach me anon;

If I create an LLC, and make the purchase of stocks on behave of the LLC, I can profit?
What am I missing, please point me in the right direction.

>>5404980
These people like to make these things retroactive.

my name isnt connected to most of the exhanges i use. how will they know

>>5405093
>implying laws can be implemented retroactively

>>5405109
>privacy
>from the government
>on a computer
good luck

>>5405070
Don't know. I am going to consult with a tax attorney In Seattle next Tuesday. I'm shaking like a dog shitting tacks.

>>5404488

> Can't even read a white paper & speculate

You pump it a shitty tech like Verge, you totally deserved it.

Enjoy niggers in jail you dumb fuck piece of shit.

>>5405137
Case Law Exists. This isn't my first rodeo. I know what these people are capable of.

What if you bought crypto and are holding on to it? If you didn't have any fiat money deposited into your bank account from crypto then you won't owe any taxes right? Because you didn't make any money that they can claim taxes on.

>>5403633
The only people who are upset by this are people who are incorrectly trying to use the many cryptocurrencies as a get rich scheme rather than an actual currency.

>>5403633
Why do Americans do this?

They broadcast endless propaganda against Russia and North Korea, demonizing both countries to the absolute limit, then ask themselves "Why do Russia and North Korea hate us?"

Can somebody explain this to me?

>>5405206
you only pay taxes when to trade crypto for crypto or if you cash out for fiat
this is assuming your original holdings increased before trading for another crypto.

>>5405138
have fun connected it you tax shill faggot. they can barely get the records for 2014 coinbase users let alone every exchange.

>>5405206
if you bought crypto with crypto (BTC - LTC for example) you do owe taxes

>>5405267
when in doubt follow the money

>>5403633
>Donald Trumunumunupl

>>5404224
I got a 5k loan for mining rigs and declared it as a business loss this year. Extra 1.5k back on my taxes. Stay down hobbiests.

>>5404205
>>mfw people are calculating my taxes on WoW gold to health potions


You just made me nostalgia hard. Kinda makes me wanna reinstall that shit and log in to my old account and see just how much gold I have in there. I seem to remember it being about 17,000. Damn you!

>>5403968
>implying I gave personal info to the exchanges im on
>implying the exchanges are in the US and subject to US law
>implying if shit gets bad I wont just renounce US citizenship and GTFO
I'm not even on the IRS's radar have no idea I trade crypto or how much I hold. As far as they know im a poorfag who pays all his taxes like a good goy on my wagecuck paychecks. And these things take years to process anyway, so even if they did suspect something I all already be in lamdoland in a tax haven where they cant touch me.

>>5405206
The tax rate on long term capital gains is zero if you are in the bottom two income brackets, which can be as high as 100k a year for a married couple. That's 0% taxes, on crypto, 100% legal, says so on IRS.gov. All you have to do is hold for 1 year. You can also deduct your cost basis.

Literally what is the point of cryptos if the government taxes them?

>>5405610
I. Don't. Think. You. Heard. Me. There. Will. Be. A. Sales. Tax. On. Every. Crypto. Trade.

>>5405631
Tax my decentralized money. Need a way to keep it in a currency that is private and gov can’t track.

>>5405677
"In the United States, sales tax is governed at the state level and no national general sales tax exists"

>>5405543
I feel the same way but im verified on cuckbase and bitrex. But i only have had a total of 11k pass through my coinbase acount this year into m bank and each deposit is to paypal then to my bank is 500 or less. What do u anons recommend ? I have btc tax and i only owe 891.

>>5405677
Latin for "from a thing done afterward." Ex post facto is most typically used to refer to a criminal law that applies retroactively, thereby criminalizing conduct that was legal when originally performed. Two clauses in the US Constitution prohibit ex post facto laws: Art 1, § 9 and Art. 1 § 10.

>>5405738
when you cash into USD you owe capital gains theres no way around it, what these morons are proposing however, is that there's some way to track crypto buys/sells/transfers/ownership and pay sales tax on it, the very idea is ludicrous and counter-productive to crypto.

>>5405498
Tfw 17k is fucking chump change these days

>>5405686
>>5405631
Anyone with half a brain is going to realize what the big holds are for next year, and whats coming down the pipe

Privacy and anon coins are gonna moon like nothing else, the more the IRS cracks down the more anon tech will come out

This is the whole point of crypto, guys. Dont you get it? This is why it was created. Monero, Verge, Cloak are just the beginning.

>Obfuscated wallets and tx's
>Decentralized and anon exchanges
>Obfuscated atomic swaps
>Anon debit cards
>Underground, Anon USD/Asset exchanges

There *will* be a backlash in crypto. Trust me. The harder the gov squeezes, the more crypto slips through their fingers.

>>5405798
That i understand, what i dont is if coinbase will rat me out even tho im a poorfag. Also my taxes are low because im in the 15% bracket, 12% next year for the trade gains. I dont wana report shit.

>>5405798
UNLESS asset swapping becomes a thing. Then you take out a loan, get USD, and you put up your property (crypto) as collateral. You default on the loan and they take your property, but you keep the cash. And you pay 0 in tax and its completely legal. We just have to wait for someone to come along willing to do it with crypto.

But yeah there is no way in hell they will be able to track and tax every trade, way too many factors the have to figure out. And they are going to go after the people cashing out on coinbase before they do anything with foreign exchanges,

>>5406122
seriously, anything you turned into USD claim as capital gains or you'll get fucked royally with possible prison time.

>>5406121
Can you actually hide your gains with those coins? (Monero, Verge, Cloak)
They could simply shutdown every exchange that uses them.

>>5406161
>SALT

>>5406322
>Can you actually hide your gains with those coins? (Monero, Verge, Cloak)

Yes, Darksend/Obfuscated send already does that. It breaks up your tx's. Hidden wallets, etc

>They could simply shutdown every exchange that uses them.

Not the decentralized ones :)

If they go full on 1984 and start shutting down exchanges trading Monero and shit, the whole thing is gonna go underground fast. And projects like Shift will go on overdrive, everything will become anonymous

I mean this really is the destiny of crypto, we all know that is what its coming down to.

>>5406322
Yes. they could. Just like they shut down alpha bay.

>>5406386
Yeah Salt looks promising, but I heard people saying you have to over leverage loans.

>>5406436
Kek, Tor has been compromised a long time ago.

There is a new Darknet coming and they wont be able to shut it down

>>5405677
Talking. Like. This. Is. Fucking. Gay. Stop. It

>>5404416
You're pathetic.

>>5404176
Yeah, time to move all crypto to Binance lads.
Good look subpoenaing the chinks.

>>5404249
https://news.bitcoin.com/belarus-legalizes-cryptocurrencies-icos-tax-free/

>>5404580
what the fuck people actually think using a phone emulator on their pc is BTFO-tier lmfao

>>5406122
>coinbase will rat me
Jesus, I can bet 80% of /biz/ lurkers are fucking kids. You never used exchanges before? All gains and loses you make going to affect your taxes. Doesn't matter if it's a Disney stock, or fucking DOGE coin. You made profit if you sold it for USD. But you can claim a loss if you actually lost money on trading to. I've lost ~12k dolaritos on penny stocks and still getting my tax deductions because of it.

>be current year in United states
>2024
>Trump's presidency just came to an end
>libcuck voted into office by angry nocoiners
>Massive taxes imposed on anyone owning crypto
>taxed on 100% of gains
>75% goes to gubberment to be (((redistributed))) to the (((99%)))
>Anyone without accurate records on each trade is sent directly to prison for 40 years
>Being involved in "crypto" is stigmatized to being worse than a neo-nazi
>Purple haired demigorgansexual nocoiners hunt down and murder the remaining cryptolords who aren't in prison yet
>Hailed as saviours of the modern age
>Lambos no longer exist
This can't end well.

>>5408581
Yeah not like based Trump, he loves us

>>5408581
i long for the day the purple haired trans demiqueer afro feminist faggotsexuals actually try something like this. My brethren and I will freely distribute lead to all of them.

Normies are literally going out of their ways to buy this shit. Get rekt, BZC is the only one they'll buy for fun.

>>5409369
Too late, gonna have to suck dick for fees now.

Everyone is going to put their thousands of saved dollars into crypto. I save $3,300 a year under Trump's tax plan, damn right all that is going into crypto.

>>5409552
It's gonna cost you more than $3,300 after you get audited for trading crypto.

>>5405798
Makes me wonder if Trump is just waiting for us to call his bluff

>>5403727

Not anymore friend.
You have to pay on any crypto to crypto exchange.

>>5409974
Stop spreading misinformation.

>>5403968

>>5410008

uh. wow. did you actually read the new rules?

>>5405798
>when you cash into USD you owe capital gains theres no way around it
Actually there is. If you HODL your crypto for a year it will be taxed as long-term capital gains when you realize your profits. And for a single filer in 2018, you will be taxed at 0% on long-term capital gains for realizations under $38,600. If you quit your job and only realize $38,600 per year you will pay zero taxes.

>>5410105
this

>>5403968
You know there is a tax credit for money lost right? They'll owe me based on the value I've lost in terms of BTC. Get fucked

>>5410105
>under $38,600
>>5410132
How have you poorfags not made more than this when bitcoin went up 15X this year alone?

>>5410163
Most people could easily live off $38,600 per year. That's like $60,000 pretax for normal wage slave jobs.

>>5410105

What if I trade one shitcoin for 1 shitcoin and hold that for a year, can you defer those gains? Or is it only legal if I buy a coin with cash and never trade it for a year?

>>5403738
The fuck are you talking about, "boomer faggots" have done more complex finance balances and indicators than you will ever do. A few conversion shit isn't that hard, but the way to point it out shows how hard it was for you. You imbecile, you fucking asshole.

>>5404188

>irs
>supercomputer

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The most they can do is make an example of somebody. They can't seize your crypto.

>>5405038
>If you can tell me how we can create a high trust society within the next thirty years I'll listen

Split up into ethno states. Enjoy the benefits of living in a ethnically homogenous society.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/15/us/politics/final-republican-tax-bill-cuts.html

>The bill would move from the current worldwide tax system, in which income earned abroad is taxed in the United States, to a territorial system in which only domestic profits would be taxed.

>set up a company
>transfer crypto assets to them
>use this shell company to cash out crypto in country with lower tax rate

Would this work? Why or why not?

>>5410311
Trading 1 buttcoin for 1 shitcoin is taxed under the new tax reform as well. You would need to hold the shitcoin for another year before it's a long-term gain. Thanks Trump.

>>5410455
curious about this as well

>>5410455
>>5410832
No. You're not earning income abroad unless you live in a different country. As soon as your shell company pays you it'll be subject to regular income tax. That's in addition to whatever taxes you incurred when your shell company received, exchanged, and paid out to you.

>>5410435
Too bad you can be jailed for that shit

>>5410455
>>5407374

>>5404416
>hey bro, can I borrow your phone? They don't let customers use the phone here

Begging for phone time is the soyest of boy things I've ever heard of.

>>5410325
Mcfucking kill yourself
Cant wait for old fucks to die off

>>5410978
what if you never technically "pay yourself" but instead use a business account or something?

>>5403968
Are they going to accept BTC?

>>5405610
That's true, but each realized gain is calculated as ordinary income, so if you trade a coin that you acquired super low for something super high you'll have a huge gain, you'll need to pay tax on.

It's gonna require you guys to keep a lot more cash on hand, and probably make estimated payments if you're big fishies, shouldn't be too bad though, esp if you have a job you're working at the same time to keep some liquid coming in. I would suggest getting a CPA.

>>5404188
Exchanges are off chain

>>5407599
If he's in the 12%, LTCG are taxed at 0%. Also, you're taxed on the value of a coin's difference of what you aquired it at, vs its value when you swapped it for another coin less your fees and expenses.

>>5404188
>what is xmr

>>5411105
There's a rule that you're required to recognize some income. But you can give yourself a low salary, and pay a lot of dividends, which are taxed favorably, it just has to be a 'reasonable' salary based on the industry and type of company.

So.. this is only in the U.S right ??? Europe is free right ?? :////

>>5403633
Do I get this right? Say I trade $100,000 worth of BTC for confido at $1 and suddenly confido crashes 99%, I now suddenly owe the goverment $40,000 while not actually having almost anything and being in massive losses?

>>5411503
no man don't worry about it. this tax cut is amazing alright, we will never be taxed on a loss, Only taxed on USD invested is greater than original.

>>5405631
Man, if only there were some kind of decentralized, untracable money we could use to avoid taxes.

>>5411503
You'd owe on the difference between what you aquired the $100,000 BTC at, and the value at the date you trade it away.

But you could easily trade your Confido back and have a $40,000 loss to report on your taxes instead.

>>5411493

Nope, US Tax law now covers Europe. Get fucked.

So imagine this scenario where i make 1 million euros .. They take 50% off taxes.. that sucks so much holy

how much are they taxing each transaction?

>>5411980
90%

I was thinking more like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeumyOzKqgI

how in the fuck is the gov going to find my shapeshift transactions? how am i going to? fuck this.

>>5403633
MAGA

>>5403738
>>5403793
Kek

>>5404208
this

>>5406616
Yes. I come from r9k and hold 20 ark remember.

>>5407385
I uninstalled it because I needed HDD space and havent bothered with it since. I just google ark to aud and input 20 ark and see what it gives me. Good times

>>5411066
We have had our land line not working for months and guess what, not once in that time have I needed the phone. Im a neet from r9k remember? What I need a phone for?

I like it over here. Not a bunch of soyboy trap wannabes like over there. It wasnt always like that. It was glorious back in the old days.

>>5403633
i put my poloniex history through bitcoin.tax

it says i owe 969k.

i'm not putting any of my other exchange history in

fuck this shit

fuck u niggers

i'm not paying shit

i'm faking my own death

i'll pay 6m to anyone who wants to help

fuck u faggots

>>5403633
Just use a decentralized, p2p exchange like Bisq then you twat.

>>5403738
an easy way to do that literally already exists. you have no excuse aside from announcing citizenship and moving to another country
https://bitcoin.tax/

>>5412565
>it says i owe 969k

>>5412565
>wont pay 969k
>will pay 6m
?

How do taxes work on shorting? And margin trades in general?

>>5412971
All gains/loses within one year are taxes the same