/biz/ - Business & Finance

Also is the Dutch tax authority a ferocious relentless blood sucker like the IRS?

Bump, want to hear about the subject too.

Tot 25k betaal je niks, na 25k valt het in box 3 en moet je 1,67% erover betalen. < ik weet niks van belastingshit, maar dit is wat ik vernomen heb.

Vermogensrendementsheffing is only 1.2%

Dude it's less than 2%. Also, if you have the 30% ruling you don't have to pay it.

>>5385429
In english pannekoek.

>>5385429
1,67% from your net worth when you're over 25k? God damn I'll be back soon

>>5385442
I don't, but regardless I don't think that's what the 30% ruling implies. It implies that you have to subtract 30% from your total tax liability, not that the 30% ruling cancels out the 30% tax imposed on the Box 3 yield

>>5385359
Its tax free up to 25000 everything after that is taxed at %1,67

>>5385389
Worse
>>5385452
no
>>5385429
this
>kanker

>>5385527
maybe if you didnt trade fr a year but if you increase your money in crypto you need to pay income tax.

>>5385570
>if you increase your money in crypto you need to pay income tax

bullshit...source on this?

>>5385601
you made money trading instead of holding. so the goverment will tax it as income. just like if you had another sidejob for a few hours a week

If you had no coins on 1st of January 2017, you pay nothing in 2018. 1st of January is measurement date.

>>5385570
I think that's only if it is your main source of income like day trading. Not sure though.

>>5385635
Bullshit. It is unrealized profit. Maybe if you live off the returns, otherwise it is box 3. Trading or changing positions doesn't make it your full time job.

>>5385655
You can't just make your coins disappear. Even if you claim you lost your wallet or gave it to someone you won't ever be able to use them again without risking tax evasion charges. What's the point?

>>5385688
say you bought a shitcoin and it mooned 100x

>>5385601
Nee. Box 3 kudt

moet ik nu volgend jaar aangifte doen over 2017 (en dus de waarde bepalen van 1-1-2017) of over 2018?

Not sure of your laws but let's say you bought Monero and then bad things happened...

>>5385359
Just pay your taxes. It's less than 2% ffs, contribute to the fucking country.

Do you notice how good our roads are? Our health care is in the top 5 of the world. Our universities are all in the top 200.
Be happy that you get to live here, don't be a jew.

>>5385359
REEEEEE NORMIES!!!!!
GET THE FUCK OUT OF CRYPTOS AND ELAVE US HARDCODERS WITH OUR OWN WALLETS ALONE

>>5385722
In 2018 betaal je vermogensbelasting over wat je op 1-1-2017 had.

>>5385738
>Our universities are all in the top 200.
[citation needed]

>>5385635
>>5385719

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/vermogen_en_aanmerkelijk_belang/vermogen/wat_zijn_uw_bezittingen_en_schulden/uw_bezittingen/overige_bezittingen/

>bitcoins en andere virtuele betaalmiddelen
Virtuele betaalmiddelen, zoals bitcoins, staan op uw computer opgeslagen. U kunt deze alleen gebruiken als betaalmiddel op internet. U geeft van deze middelen de waarde in het economisch verkeer aan op 1 januari van het jaar van aangifte.

lmao, our tax people are slow as usual, thank god.

>>5385796
Top 250 then due to the fucking VU
https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/country/netherlands

>>5385755
ah, fijn. volgens mij zat ik toen nog net onder de 25k grens. wordt volgend jaar wel flink dokken.

>>5385359

Als je zoveel moet betalen aan belasting bezit je over de 1m, kanker gier.

>>5385919
Procentueel blijft het toch het zelfde.
Als je een flink bedrag moet dokken heb je zo veel geld dat je het ook wel kan missen. Je moet in deze markt wel heel dom investeren om in 2019 minder geld te hebben dan op 1-1-2018.

whats the best site for dutchies to buy btc? my mom wants to buy some now because its dropped a lot

>>5385868
What does this mean, anon?

Also, all in all, how can they make you pay taxes if the money never makes it to your bank account?
Someone already said that this is unrealised profit, so, how does the "tax only over the 25k" specifically work? does this only apply for the money that made it to your bank account?

Dankjewel in advance, pannenkoeken van Kikkerland.

I studied tax law. You have to report your cryptos, which you owned on 1 jan 2017, valued at the price of 1 jan 2017.

The government says you made 4% profit off them (give or take). And you pay 30% taxes over that 4%. So effectively you only pay about 1,2% taxes.

Also, if you work in the Netherlands and make enough money, you and your employer can opt in for the 30% tax exclusion. This means you pay 30% less taxes over your work income and you pay NOTHING over any savings you have.

>>5385959
anycoindirect.eu is prima.
Het verificatieproces kost even, maar je kan met iDeal betalen wat heel chill is. En je krijgt zoals de naam impliceert direct je muntjes.

>>5385968
Also, you can substract 25k over your cryptos.

>>5385977
nice dubs koen

>>5385359
>leeching off european country
>doesnt want to pay taxes
go back, faggot.

>>5385500

Nah, if you qualifty for the 30% ruling, it's ANOTHER bonus you get. Hence why people fucking hate expats ;)

>>5385570
cryptos are box 3. In box 3 they assume 4% gains per year and this is taxed at 30%.

>>5385688
You lost it all on some bad etherdelta trade. Next day you made it back with random shit tokens

>>5385500
The 30% rule ensures you don't pay taxes over 30% of your income.
And it means the Netherlands won't tax you over your box 3 savings, which means your cryptos and crypto gains won't get taxed.

The 30% rule is a means for rich people to avoid paying taxes.

>>5385963
it means crypto is still a grey area in the netherlands...so if you started with 1 BTC, and ended up with 100, due to trading, you don't get taxed extra, you always just pay around 1% "vermogensbelasting". however, if your net worth is less than €25k, you don't have to pay anything.
of course you can have a wallet with like 1000 BTC and easily hide that from the tax man, your choice.

Je kan ook Monero's laten uitbetalen via meerdere mensen/accounts?
https://anycoindirect.eu/nl/verkopen/monero

Gewoon betalen kut

>>5386145
>The 30% rule is a means for rich people to avoid paying taxes.
Incorrect, as this only applies for expats and not all expats that move to NL are rich.
Get your facts straight, mietje

>>5386205
what's the point?

>cash out €50k crypto gains, hide it from the belastingdienst
>can't tranfer it to your bank account because they'll instantly know and fuck you over
>can't buy a fancy car because they'll instantly know and fuck you over

>>5386317
>be a billionaire
>""work"" in the Netherlands
>you no longer pay taxes over your billions and no capital gains taxes

>>5386348
You still pay taxes, you fucking moron, even if you benefit from the 30% tax ruling.

>>5386388
Not over box 2 and box 3.

>>5385959
bitmymoney is pretty chill.

>>5385968
Wait, so how does that last part work? And what if youre freelance?

>>5385887
Even the Open University rocks the fucking world
>Top IT Educator motherfucker
>TFW even Delft & Eindhoven can't even manage that shit
>TFW Prestige is overrated
TFW I have no face

>>5386624
It's an opt in, which often results in that the other country will treat you as someone who pays taxes in the Netherlands.
And the Netherlands will treat you as someone who pays taxes abroad.

>>5386775
It's a practical joke that you can pull in many areas of tax.

So no one has any valid solutions then?

>>5385359
>5 figures
It's a 1.2% tax, imposed on the value it had on January 1.
>Any chance that the tax authority will introduce some sort of a tax amnesty for crypto given that bitcoin has rallied hard over the past 12 months?
Any chance the state will voluntarily let you keep more of your money than the law currently dictates? Fuck no.
>What were you planning to do in light of this predicament.
Pay the tax. I don't see the problem. It's a lot less than pretty much any other country's capital gains tax.

>>5386963
>bitcoin costed 1000 dollars
>you made 4% profit, which is 40 dollars
>you pay 30% taxes over 40 dollars
>please help

Your gonna pay a flat fee on your assets from 25K up, wether its in cash, crypto, shares or real estate

>>5387003
This year the first 75k is 2,871% profit.

https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/vermogen_en_aanmerkelijk_belang/vermogen/belasting_betalen_over_uw_vermogen/grondslag_sparen_en_beleggen/berekenen_belasting_over_uw_inkomsten_uit_vermogen_vanaf_2017

>>5387003
So you literally pay 12 dollar taxes over each bitcoin.

Gister een aangenomen verrassing van ome duo kon meteen de dip kopen.

ik heb gisteren verkocht op 11k eur....gekocht op 18k eur... toen teruggekocht in bch omdat ik dacht dat we gingen flippeningen...kanker :(

>>5387389
Volgende week donderdag is segwit2x. Dan word bitcoin weer gekopieerd.

Dan gaat iedereen in de bitcoin zitten voor een gratis muntje, die mogelijk bitcoin cash overbodig maakt. Dus momenteel is bitcoin cash een erg riskante investering.

>>5385719
Ga weg joh, MOET JE GEEN GITAREN VERKOPEN OFZO

>>5385359
I think if you are benefiting from the 30% ruling you are exempt from that.

>>5387415
Is het weer zo ver. "ontslaan" we bitcoin core team?

>>5387389
>Kanker

Kankerdom bedoel je?

>>5387543
Ultra kankerdom. Gewoon kopen, niet naar omkijken en over een jaar of 2 paleis soesteinde kopen

>>5387607
ik koop hoog, en verkoop laag.

Trouwens, voor alle Nederlanders die hier zitten en een coin zoeken die binnenkort 10x of 20x gaat, koop Oceanlab/OCL. Is een coin nu nog alleen te krijgen op de Waves Dex maar hij gaat binnen een paar weken of maanden naar grote exchanges. Als je nu nog koopt ben je spekkoper. Gewoon een tip. Doe ermee wat je wil.

>>5387415
Dat is nep fork door een scammende autist die helemaal geen adoptie heeft. Als je echt daar op gaat zitten wachten kom je van een koude kermis thuis.

>>5387730
Nee, ik ga dan gewoon een uurtje in bitcoin zitten.

Ah dus dit is wrm al die kankersites je ID willen hebben. Ik heb t zonder ID nog kunnen doen door op litebit te kopen (500eu p/d limiet maar t moet maar en tyfushoge kosten) en te sturen naar gatehub wallet.
Nu vraag ik me af wat ik ga doen als ik t weer naar euro om wil zetten.
Kzit onder 25k dus voor nu boeit t eigenlijk geen flikker maar je weet nooit.

>>5387730
>Oceanlab/OCL

wat is hun doel?

>>5387790

Hou alles anoniem, zo anoniem mogelijk. Als je grote gains hebt (gaat iedereen lukken in 2018) ga naar Hongarije, cash alles contant uit, zet een bedrijf op, maak nepfacturen en betaal 9% inkomstenbelasting.

>>5387844
>paying 9% income tax instead of 1.2% tax here
why.jpg

>>5387844
Ik begrijp niet waarom je al die moeite zou doen voor 1.2% vermogensbelasting.

>>5387906
Omdat je geen 1.2% moet betalen pannenkoek

>>5387928
Alleen als crypto handelen je baan is

>>5387906
omdat inkomstenbelasting hier 30% is

>>5387730
cool. weet jij nog nederlandse projecten die ik kan steunen? kankercrypto (KKC) when

>>5387960
Gulden?

>>5387973
wat moet dit gaan doen?

>>5387973
:)

>dutch get taxed on assets not income
WTF

>>5387742
Bitcoin zal volgend jaar niet x10 of 20 gaan. Maar je moet het zelf weten.

>>5387806
Ze werken samen met het waves team om handige blockchain ondersteunende applicaties te bouwen. Automatische betalingen, token distributies, online games, blockchain workshops voor bedrijven, een centraal Europees blockchain hub en nog veel meer dingen die ik vergeet. Check hun whitepaper op oceanlab.eu. Ze brengen elke week een update uit over wat ze aan het doen zijn. De prijs gaat constant omhoog.

Kwestie van tijd voor ze op grote exchanges komen en een flink paar keer over de kop gaan. Het gaat de afgelopen tijd hard omhoog. Daarom nu kopen nu ze nog onder de radar vliegen. Nu nog te krijgen voor minder dan 1000 sat.

>>5388001
Echt geen flauw benul.
Volgens mij is het een blockchain die lang niet zo veel innerveert als veel andere producten, maar Nederlands is het wel.

>>5388052
*innoveert

>>5385359

Dude We dont have a capital gains tax!! One of the best countries in the world for crypto gains, taxwise.

They have decided to just asume a 3% return on your wealth and to tax that instead of taxing capital gains. Which HUGELY favors people making massive gains like the crypto neets right now.

>>5388037
what's more fucked up is that from the looks of things ITT, every single dutch faggot is a full blown cuck who's eager to pay taxes

>>5388117
because we don't live in a shithole like you do and we are actually in the top 5 with almost everything. Our country used to be nothing but water and we made it into a worldpower. So fuck off

>>5388117
t. greek

>>5388117
I love how foreigners don't understand the concept of a government that actually builds roads with your tax money.

Must feel really bad to live in a country where your government is so untrustworthy that people buy guns to feel safe from their own politicians.

>>5387084
>2,871%
jezus man ik schrok me de tyfus. was even vergeten we hier kommas gebruiken als decimale punt.

>>5388158
was ook een woord vergeten zie ik nu

>>5388041
Ziet er goed uit. Vanavond even lezen.

Alvast bedankt voor de gains, mocht ik investeren.

>>5387415
>bitcoin cash overbodig

>>5388135
>>5388137
>>5388150
Netherlands is nice, but Germany is nicer.

Still a top 5 country though

>>5388250
bratwurst in dein sauerkraut

>>5388117
Compared to germany and belgium we have very fucking good roads and infrastructure. And it sometimes baffles me how other countries throw their hat at important shit like that.

>>5388250
>Germany is nicer
>shit education
>East Germany reunification tax
>an even worse sense of humour than us
>gazillions of refugees, due to an eternal guilt complex
>Berlin is a literal shithole
Ummmm no thanks sweetie

>>5388199
Tuurlijk. Geen probleem. We drinken volgend jaar een biertje als we naar de maan vliegen.

>>5388269
>>5388321
the problem is your country is too small

>>5388415
The problem is your dick is too small and your ego too big. We Dutchies always be rich and fuck pretty blonde women

>>5388415
Living in a small country means your vote is more relevant.

>>5388308
>>5388150
>>5388135
>>5388137
>their government has indoctrinated them into believing that the state is responsible for economic growth and prosperity instead of free market participants
wew lad, looks like Stockholm Syndrome should be renamed to Amsterdam Syndrome

>>5388455
>>5388451
but no good cities

>>5388505
The whole world is our city

>>5388505
Whatever the RAF left standing of your cities isn't too impressive either.
>>5388471
Nobody said that, please put that stupid strawman back in your anus where it belongs.

>>5388471
Hey man, i'd love the libertarian dream as much as any person with common sense but it isn't (yet) possible.

>>5388592
I'm american

>>5385359
Don’t pay it fuckstock. The whole point of crypto was to break away from governments and banks. They can’t trace your trades. The only way they get people’s tax is if they comply. Say no. This is international and the people’s money and nothing to do with them the second it was converted out of fiat. Capital gains my ass. They can fuck off.

>>5388592
>>5388595
>implying your hard earned tax money isn't directly routed to paying for moroccan immigrants and their 6 kids
i guess that's a strawman too lmao

>>5388602
In that case you shouldn't pretend to know anything about our countries.

>>5387844
Veel succes met EU anti-witwas wetten

>>5385480
Don't forget the every single year part

>>5389232
yeah that's how taxes work everywhere..

Any info on the crypto tax situation in belgium?
I bought 14 coins in 2015, after converting my bch to btc I am now sitting on 16.69 btc. No daytrades, just hedl.

Not planning on cashing out soon but I want to know if I have to pay taxes on the gainz for when it's lambo time.

>>5385738
The Univetsity of Groningen is top 100 actually. It says so on both their homepage and the international listing.

Roads are gud because car ownership in Netherlandistan is the most expensive in the world. Fuel is retardedly expensive. I live in Groningen so I just buy 200 liters of ethanol free RON 100 V power in Germany, that is cheaper than our shitty RON 95 ethanol containing fuel. LPG is dirt cheap but road taxes kills that pretty much. Road taxes for diesel is also expensive as fug

The BPM, or CO2 luxury tax is fucking insane. A mustang GT costs
1 2 0 K
2
0
K
because muh co2 emissions muh bad goyim. It truly is retarded how a 35k car has over 70k in co2 taxes. Sales tax, being 21%, also needs to be paid over that co2 tax.

A fucking 911 carrera is cheaper than a mustang GT. Wew lad. In the meanwhile, due to a tax loophole my father in law can drive pic related with only 50 bucks per 3 months in road taxes. It cost only 27k including import because "working vehicles" are exempt from co2 tax. It runs on LPG too, which is dirt cheap as I said.

Health insurance is affordable here because a portion of income taxes up to 45k per year IS health insurance. It'll say something like "Premie volksverzekeringen". On top of that, there is a fixed price for every medical treatment here, regardless whether it covers the costs or not. That is fucking retarded and leads to fraud and creative accounting just to not go bankrupt

>>5388664
Forgot the pic lol. It's funny how euro cuckboxes are so small in comparison

>>5385452
>Expat
>Doesn't speak Dutch
Yeah I'm not going to help a brainlet

>>5388135
top fucking kek
slave mentality

>>5389558
>That is fucking retarded and leads to fraud and creative accounting just to not go bankrupt
It does, but it prevents a single surgical procedure from costing 200K as in the US.

About the car ownership thing, just don't drive an unnecessarily huge car. The country is completely flat ffs.

>>5389857
>unnecessary
>you don't NEED that anon
Do you vote D666? You can fuck right off senpai, I like offroading and without the tax loophole it costs waaaayyy too much in taxes. I just drive a different lpg pickup that's in my FIL's name.

Sure, you have a point about excessive costs in healthcare but most is overhead cost due to managers because of all the laws and shit. What I think is unacceptable is that insurance (((companies))) keep blocking proven therapies such as the proton therapy in cancer treatment. The UMCG built its own without permission which caused massive bootyblasting. Physicians are leaving Netherlandistan anyways. Some universities that offer medicine even offer an extra course to ace the exams required for medical practice in the US. I myself have been thinking about the US or some oil country once I'm done. I can speak arabic but I'm not religious so that might cause problems