/biz/ - Business & Finance

This really only applies if you use USDT.
You could have sold all you wanted between ETH and BTC, they were all plummeting.

Also in Germany you have to HODL for at least one year to not have to pay taxes

>>5357496
>this
Also jews would have taken like 15% of my money the moment I pressed the payout button

Hold is better, Crypto is unstable it could just go up as soon you sold, and you wont get your money back

>>5357553
So tax-wise you should just see your money get fucked and do nothing about it?
Absolute cuckery.

>>5357412
I lost more money to taxes and fees the last few days than I lost to the market (becuase I am retarded to not use USDT)

HODL was good before USDT

Try it out op. Keep good books, you'll see it is very hard to beat buy and hold. Almost all traders will actually lose money. If it was easy everyone would do it.

Do people really deny they make less with hodl?
Like people do it because there's less effort and stress
It's the reason people go to trust funds

>>5357412

It takes a special temperament and knowledge of the market to be able to effectively day trade. Nothing wrong with day trading if you know what you're doing, but holding is a much better heuristic.

>>5357412
>holding vs daytrading
This all depends on whether you're smart enough to trade every day. If you don't, you'll fuck yourself over and lose even more BTC. It also is a hassle than holding for long-term.
t. Daytrader who had 3 BTC and only have less than 1 now

But what if you did both?

ITS DROPPING OH GOD SELL SELL SELL (3% fee)
ITS GOING UP AND I DONT KNOW WHY BUY BUY BUY (1% fee)
OMFG ITS GOING BACK DOWN WHAT SHOULD I DO?!
SELL SELL SELL (FEE FEE FEE)
IS THIS A GOOD POINT TO GO BACK IN ?!
>random post from an anon to buy ethercuck because its the next new technology and microsoft and shit has it and shit
BUY ETHERKEK
WHY IS EVERYTHING GOING DOWN AT THE SAME TIME ?!?!
WHY CANT I SLEEP ANYMORE?!
OK IM CASHING OUT (15% inc tax)

>>5357751
This is me. I can’t spend all day at work daytrading so if it dips, whatever. If you really cared you’d cash out before you sleep every night since you can’t monitor your shit.

>>5357412
Jealous semicoiner

coiners need not do trading to become multi-billionaires
not our problem you need to hustle to get by

ok stop memeing the buy high sell low shit at the moment!!!! some noob might take you serious and unironically sell low FFS people

Isn't this trying to catch a falling knife though

>>5358061
kill yourself pajeet

>>5357685
It might be a good thing since it stops retarded panic sell dips like this one.

>>5358134
I just wanted to make a shitty joke I guess.
But you're right, daytrading works if you know your coins and have plenty of time.
And then there's even the fact that you might miss out on moon-missions.

>>5357920
what the fuck are those fees? you are not supposed to trade on coinbase dumbass

>>5357412
Wrong pic

Hodl is a meme for alts, not bitcoin. Bitcoin will always be king. Every one of you fuckers who sell will regret it

>>5357920
Don't forget, Uncle Dahnald wants your crypto cummies now.

>>5357751
this i cant care for those extra 20% gains
i want to sleep comfy at night

>>5357933
so when are you making profit retard? what if all market goes to zero?

hint: its possible

>>5357751
some of these deluded hodlers really deny it.

>>5358555
it's also possible for your fiat to be worth fuckall tomorrow or for your country to get nuked to shit and dissolve as a nation or your bank to gamble it all away on one horserace and them declare bankruptcy tomorrow or an alien invasion shows up but all they want to do is takes all our notes and coins, who fucking cares about 0.00...001% chances you actual retard.

>>5358458
this, learnt the hard way but have seen the light, the correction is healthy and was foreseeable.

>>5358792
>something with a 100 year track record of stability has the same odds of going to 0% as of something with no track record of stability

>>5358845
>0.001% of crashing to 0 is fine
>0.002% of crashing to 0 WOAH LOOK AT SHITCOINERS UR GONNA LOSE UR MOMEY XD
cool story bruh

>>5358845
Like Sears?

>>5358845
>100 year track record of sta-
see Cyprus for an example of a country waking up and having all the money in your bank account be worthless only a few years ago

>>5358918
No, like pets.com

>>5358939
Do you know the banks pay interest on deposits?

>>5357412
real men hold.

>>5357412
You don't lose any money until you actually sell dumbass.

>>5358974
.1% per year is not going to cover inflation, not even close

>>5358224
actually my plan was to buy and forget.
it obviously didn't work out, I'm checking like 20 times per day. I'm fucking addicted.

>>5359014
What about 18%?

>>5357412
>I buy ripple at 0.2$
>it goes up to 1.2$
>I HODL
>dips to 1.0$
>/biz/ tells me to sell and re-invest elsewhere
>but ripple keeps holding at support around 1$
>later I wanna reinvest in ripple and eat my gains

I don't get it. OPs strategy only works if the currency you bought and mooned goes back all the way to the original price point you bought in at. Better to HODL 6-7 good cryptos because crypto altcoins are generally bullish these days?

>>5358843
name?

Timing the market is not as easy as one believes, otherwise we'd all be rich by now.

>>5359071
well first of all, they don't pay CD rates on deposits. I'm not sure if you know what a CD is but you can't use that money, so it's not like having money in a bank account. Second you picked an ATH interest rate that would be impossible to get for 95% of the last 100 years. Try to go into a bank and get an 18% return on a CD today and tell me how it goes.

>>5359014
I’m just curious, how old are you?

>>5357746
this.

>>5357746
This

This would require knowledge of the future. Nice job trying to shake out the weak hands.

>>5359152
I'm 24, just used a high end. At osuuspankki it is paid .06% for me/year, but a high end .1% after 100 years you get 10% returns with compound interest. meanwhile in 100 years USD lose 97% of it's value, enjoy!

>>5359301
You’re still young. Maybe you’ll learn in a couple years.

I've got $200 in BTC on a cold wallet, which exchange can I use to buy a different coin before the price tanks further? I've lost about $15 by now.

>>5359334
It will cost you 50$ to move it.

>>5359328
Interest rate from bank is below inflation. Fact. You're too fucking stupid now you are mad.

>>5359357
>>5359334
lmao

>>5359357
Holy molly, that's just not acceptable, I don't even use BTC to speculate, I just find it convenient to make payments. Do I have any other alternatives?

>>5359473
Nope. Wait and hope the fee doesn’t go up.

>>5359328
how is it going friend you got the 18% apy on CD yet?

>>5359521
Wait, are we talking about the mining fee or the exchange fee?

>>5357746
This. I learned it the hard way. Sometimes it seems that it will obviously go one way, but things don’t go as we expect too often, and then you get fucked royally because of one or two bad tradrs. Then you realize you would have made more by simply holding.

>>5359334
If you use btc to transact, you're an idiot. What does this money mean to you?

>>5357412
I hodl because I was a fool and bought at the ATH because I thought we were already on the moon mission and I was late at 20k.
Turns out the gains were to be had falling back to 11k and going back up to 20k, not 20k to 40k just yet.

Since I didn't consult the Oracle, I hodl.

>>5359613
Mining fee.

>>5359334
>$200
>try and cash out
>costs $30 to move to exchange
>exchanges take another $20 to convert to fiat and withdraw
>have to pay $50 in gains tax
kek

>>5357412
im not a gambler so i'll just hold.

>>5357412
why is buy and hold using the same timeframe as a day trader on this image?

>>5357412
Fucking faggot it's impossible to time the market

>>5357412
>Scale: 1 hour

>>5357412

>wasting all your profits on multiple transaction fees.

Buy one large sum and sit on it. All this jittery cuck trading only makes you poorer as well as makes what you're investing in appear more volatile.

>>5357553
This, I'm German. Also the reason, I don't try to catch the top and bottom. We have about 30% taxes. If the price falls 40%, I make almost no money and I have to be extremely precise. This doesn't work in reality.

>>5359663
Happened to my brother except in stocks.
He attempted trading and his 250k turned to 170k. Kek

He thought he was some genius because he threw 20k into weed stocks and those stocks mooned. Then he said he wanted to do 'money moves' attempted timing other weed stocks but yeah..

>>5357553
>>5360126
Either that, or the 600 EUR limit per year (I heard so).

So for example, if I cash out 500 EUR before holding 1 year, I will not have to pay taxes. Is that right, anon?

>>5359787
I normally use it to pay for digital goods and services because I don't use credit cards, I usually buy a given amount of BTC and spend it almost instantly. This time I loaded ~$100 when the price was at ~$6,000, but I couldn't spend it for a number of reasons, so I went on vacation and just let it sit there. When BTC hit $18-19K I spent ~$100 of my gains, and kept the rest (~$200 or so).

At this point I don't have any real loss but I would prefer if I could salvage some gains if possible.. maybe I could move it to one of those prepaid virtual credit cards to conserve the gains?

>>5359861
I don't think I need to pay taxes on gains, but the cost of transaction/exchange is enough to make it unappealing

>>5360356
no you have to pay taxes on every trade even if you don't cash out.

>>5360126
Gotta pay to put Mohammed's gay son through his 8th year of art school, goy.

>>5360356
>>5360421
except if that was your only trade of course then yes

>>5360421
>>5360465
Where do you read that, anon? Can I have a link?

Also, what happens if I don't pay taxes for each trades?

>>5360430
umm you might wanna check your taxes first
glass house and all that

>>5360421
im not farmilar with german laws etc, but i know in the US you have to fill your tax returns, W-2's etc and i guess you have to include your crypto gains.

In the UK we dont have this, we just pay income tax which is automatically debited from our wages, ive never and will never pay tax on crypto, the taxman cant find out, just cashout via several mobile bank accounts.

>>5357651
Don't forget op knows how to REACT 2 DA MURKAD N SLL @ RT TYM

>>5360562
>Monero

What gains?

>>5360572
>>5360572
>>5360572

>>5357412

Let's say I bought 100k of X really cheap and it's gone up 10x

Why the fuck would I sell at a 3 percent loss to buy back in, I would end up with around a 10th of what I originally had and my gains would be significantly less thereafter

>>5358939
looks like accumulation before the pump

A 15% gain for perfectly timing the market and trying to catch a falling knife


VS


A promised 5% return?


I'll take the 5%...thanks.

>>5360126
well how come u aint speakin german ya crout?

>>5360363
Man there are so many better ways you could be running this. Just get adebit card for a start. You can go on about divorcing yourself from the mainstream financial system all you want (or whatever your motivation is for not having a card), but that's not really feasible at the moment. How had you not done your research and figured out the BTC fees are insane?

>>5360500
It's true, as soon a you trade, even crypto to crypto, it counts as a sell event and you have to pay taxes in Germany. There are videos on youtube about that, just use the search function.

>>5361363
Ich spreche Deutsch, du Schwanzlutscher. :)

>>5360126
Classic /biz/ intelligence

You pay that tax on your gains not the whole trade value ffs.

>>5361447
I bought when it was really low, you fucking retard.

>>5357412
Transfer between different crypto assets, not fiat

>>5361394
Yes, I've just finished reading on that.

I guess I'm pretty fucked up now since I made so many trades.

But will the Finanzamt really know, if I didn't report my trading history + taxes? How will they know if there aren't money coming into my bank acc?

I'm not planning to cash out soon or even if I cashed out, I'd be in another country with a more relax taxation.

>>5358988
Agree but you have to go back

>>5357412
>"cutting muh losses" when BTC is only down 30%, and personal portfolio hit is a fraction of that across the board
Yeah, no. Either this market rubber bands or I go down with the ship. Doesn't matter either way because I only put in what I was comfortable losing to start with.

>>5361495
I'm not sure but do you have to pay taxes on all gains or on the total sum of gains? Logically it should be on the sum but Uli Hoeneß got fucked despite the fact that he lost money in total.

Regarding the Finanzamt, well, it's your risk. If you are unlucky, they find out in a few years. If you are lucky, nobody finds out. I can't help you to find the correct decision. The idea to go to another country could work, and considering that German's authorities are incompetent regarding anything that resembles modern tech is reassuring.

>>5357412
Exactly
You can make money even in a bear market, which is where BTC is at now

Hodlers will lose more and more money. Smart day traders will continue to reap gains

>>5357746
>>5357746
They don't read, don't worry. They will never understand why Ray Dalio is one of the best traders ever, or John Templeton, or Buffet even. They think they are child prodigies or some shit.

>>5361440
Out of curiosity how difficult was it for you to learn English? How long did it take?

>bitcoin at $1300 is too high, sell, we are not going that high ever again.

>>5361213
>I'll take the 5%...thanks.
No you won't. HODL is a meme. Everyone who says they are is just trying to convince others to buy in so it spikes up after a dip

This board is full of trolls, where the objective is not to get luls but to convince idiots to take your advice for financial gains

>>5357412
.

>>5361777
what is this cope meme I'm seeing everywhere?
is it just black people speech again like pham?

>>5361777
Yes, because there were grandmas on facebook trading bitcoin in 2013.

Remember kids, if it happened in the past, it will continue to happen again in the future, forever. 1 BTC will be worth 7 trillion by 2025 and services will exist to trade fractional satoshis

>>5361726
Uh... what? What do you mean? I don't even speak English very well. I almost had to repeat a grade because I was so bad at it. I became better when I was a student, and later, I had to read
and write scientific papers in English, that helped.

The most important thing to improve was that almost all good resources on the internet are written in English. The German content just sucks balls. Also, I watched anime almost always with English sub.

So, I guess, it was difficult because I'm a moron, and I have no talent for languages at all but I was forced to learn it anyway.

>>5361626
If I understand it correctly, I will have to pay taxes on all gains (each trades). Yes, things would be easier if I could just deduct like 10% from my total portfolio.

I know, anon. Counting each of my +500 trades on several exchanges would be a pain in the ass.

I will be moving out of DE in 2-3 years anyway.

>considering that German's authorities are incompetent regarding anything that resembles modern tech is reassuring
Good to hear that. I remember there was a thread about crypto taxation in Germany some time ago and like majority of the posters in that thread said the same thing about the German authorities.

>>5361883
>I will be moving out of DE in 2-3 years anyway.
I'd like to do that, too. Not because of the taxes but because of other reasons, you probably know what I mean.

>>5357412
Delet this

>>5361952
Kek I understand, anon.

Where are you planning to move?

Me, Southeast Asia.

>>5361779
I've been holding for 6 months now...it seems to work. Historically. But this time it's different I'm sure. The people buying the bitcoins that everyone is panic selling are definitely bigger idiots than all of us.

>bitcoin drops 15%
>alright, I'll be 'AVERAGE INTELLIGUNCE' and sell so I don't get fu...
>Oops, bitcoin's going back up, no problem I'll wait for it to dip furthe....
>Ooops, bitcoin's at an ATH
>Ookay... It'll probably dip again event..
>Ooops, now you've lost 50% of your bitcoins

>>5362122
Short term I thought about Switzerland. My education is very good and I could make a good amount of money wage cucking for a few years.

I didn't think much further than that desu.

>>5361952
>>5362122
same here im getting the fuck out of here
germans leaving their own country to the invaders
what have we become

>>5362242
We had our chance in September, it's over. Time to literally move on.

>>5361847
Kill me you're right

>>5362199
Switzerland seems comfy. Do you happen to live somewhere in the south?

>We had our chance in September, it's over
Yep. That's also one of my reasons to move out.

>>5362242
Good thing I live in a small town somewhere in NRW. So things are not that bad. Where do you live, anon?

>>5362242
>own country to the invaders
Is it really that bad?

>>5362483
>Switzerland seems comfy. Do you happen to live somewhere in the south?
I live in Bavaria.

>>5362483
right between bonn/cologne im getting my free educantion
then im gone


>>5362511
yes, i study in bonn and there are literally more shitskins then thre are germans

Not falling for the greed meme.

>>5361847
>it's over, normies are here, we are on Fox News, sell!!

>>5362651
How are they as citizens? Disruptive? Aggressive? Ill mannered?

>>5362857
yes young male turks are agressive as fuck, they mosty circlejerk in groups of other turks

also they seemingly make up 70% of the welfare leeches

+they never speak fucking german

>>5362816
This is obviously different, fucking every normie is taking about bitcoin and it's trending every day

>>5357412

Fuck that. I'm not trying to stay awake at 4am predicting what some chinese bot farm is going to do next.

I've been burned more times trying to "intelligent" than just staying put.

There's something to be said for the lack of stress too. How long do you hold? Is this the bottom? Is this the top? Shit, what's happening now. All of that adds up.

>>5357746
Now the usd side of the rekt 4 #altcoinwinter HODL'ers is hitting them. Each bounce was asked & or trolled if winter was over...bear markets don't end in single bounces & if u held onto hopes by quoting USD value 4 ur altcoins welp that door has now slammed shut in ur face 2

#LtcWinter is the second side of winter which is now USD dominance over big cap. Peeps who Hodl alts clinging 2 hope by using USD value from btc pump can get fully rekt if big caps die & erase remaining usd valuations. Risk management is key cuz HODL'ing Isn't a strategy

https://twitter.com/kazonomics/status/944201460966969344 get rekt n00bs ahahahahahha