/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53567990
Based. If this fag was truly a high performer he'd still have his job lmao. How much you wanna bet he's one of the WFH parasites?

>>53567990
kys you faggot with your fucking plebbit bottom of the barrel retarded nigger anecdonal evidence to support your fucking stupid irrelevant one sentance opinion this is not your social media go back
t. surveyor

>>53568003
my poop pipes need cleaning tradie

>>53569244
>anyone who looks down on WFH losers is a tradie

"wrong"

>>53569244
All done. That'll be $1,500 + tip

>>53568003
I'll bet he's a janitor, brilliantly trying to find the next richest batch of betas to steal from.

I laugh at people who thought those salaries were sustainable. Basically unlike other engineering, software has no ramp up costs with basic infrastructure. The languages are free and open source. And since 75% of all the stem majors are cs And there are no rules and regulations that programmers must follow allowing for all sorts of garbage tier software to shoveled and forced upon the public. It's a business entirely predicated upon fads and internet trends. That's why save for Microsoft and Apple. Most tech companies today won't be around in the near future. Unlike aerospace or automotive designers, programmers have no real connection to the virtual products they create and are treated as disposable labor by multinationals.

>>53569385
this guy will spend a day in a strangers septic tank for $1500
hahahah

I have never understood why software dev jobs are high pay

Someone explain it to me how having 5000 people employed to run some application that basically runs itself, where maybe 500 people at most are doing any work, and of those 500, maybe 50 are doing all the most important stuff, meanwhile 5000 electricians or 5000 plumbers are always useful every minute of the day, but for some reason have to kill themselves to earn what a comfy software faggot earns


t. Life-Long NEET with wealthy family, never have to work in my life, just asking questions thanks (had to mention this before the seething softwarecels start raging)

>>53569573
If you're part of the 50 people doing the most important stuff on a team of 5000 you're likely worth millions a year and the company will pay you part of that. Plumbers can't be that type of force multiplier. No excuse for FAANG paying kids out of college 200k though lol

>>53567990
btw since this is probably you, just wait a couple months, don't take a title drop

>>53569573
impact at scale. a good software dev can build something that makes money off of hundreds of millions of users at once, even if it's only a few penny each. a plumber can only work on one house at a time, even the best one in the world.

this is also part of why executives get paid a lot

>>53567990
I literally have no idea what you're talking about OP.
I was laid off after four years from my $120k software engineering job I got right out of college and then I started at another software engineering job last week making almost double (about $200k).
So, maybe others can explain the purpose of this thread? Is OP just coping because he wasn't smart enough to become a SWE?

>>53569633
Yes, but it only needs to be made once.

Pic related is a Chad, he employs 5,000 people to make a video game, and then fires 90% of them the day it launches.

>>53567990

PSA for SWEfags: stop bragging about how much you make. I make 300k as a SWE and if word got out to all the normies how much we make our profession will become flooded and wages will collapse.

YOU NEED TO FUD THIS PROFESSION AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY.

>>53569676

This isn’t the 1990’s when you write software that gets distributed by CD-rom or floppy disk, there’s a live service that needs constant deployments and new feature updates

>>53569676
>5,000 people to make a video game
That's nice of Chad to make a jobs program
Sorry about Halo Infinite

>>53569701
You dont need the full team to keep it going once a product launches

>>53569688
I'm not worried, the overwhelming majority of normies can't handle the leetcode and system design grind or the nights of debugging really retarded issues when on the job. In almost all cases, the normies will go through a couple basic tutorials then immediately lose attention as soon as they have to build something from scratch without handholding. It takes a certain level of autism to deal with all that bullshit.

>>53569688
this already happened, tech pay is split like law, it's just obfuscated in burger stats because the starry-eyed $50k makers are in a time zone with a plus

>>53567990
Computers are boring

>>53569688
>if word got out to all the normies how much we make
>if

>>53567990
I seriously don't get why people post things like this. Why are they asking complete strangers advice on something that should be completely based off of their own opinion.
It's not like asking a mechanic what's wrong with your car.

>>53569688
like 95% of normies can't grasp abstract concepts and would never be able to do something even as simple as fizzbuzz

>>53569676
Video game devs make shit wages compared to other software devs. They're used to being abused for the opportunity to work a "dream" career in the entertainment industry

Tech company I work at is going through layoffs. Not an engineer, and I make 120k WFH. Engineers and other high paid people were lost. It’s a shit show out there and while there is a ton of demand for those skilled workers, markets getting flooded at least temporarily. Will be interesting to see how things progress.

>>53569849
Same reason that capital management exists. Some people prefer to have someone else tell them what to do

>>53569753
you will once you need to make another game. what are you going to do, make one game and blackball yourself from the industry by firing 90% of your engineers? how stupid are you?

>>53569516
If you did that 100 times a year you'd make 150k.

>>53570060
genuine toss-up between that and walking through san fran every day

>>53569701

450 here at my peak at Google. I would postnmy go/prosper info but not quite drunk enough for that. It's all garbage now though, to quote vox Populi it's all been inverted and is quite literally fake and gay.

>>53570071
Finance area is alright but the rest of it is shit. Company is there and you literally can’t pay me enough to move there.

90% of software engineers and CS majors are just straight up midwit fags who are both extremely mediocre intellectually and lazy. they don't do anything but they get away with it because of two factors: first, it's very hard to hold developers accountable because of the nebulous nature of their jobs and since most of their managers dont understand what they are actually doing, and second because most tech companies have extremely massive profit margins so parasites can survive just fine

however as tech becomes more competitive and as more and more trivial things get automated by packages, autoML, and chatgpt, the ability to write trivial python scripts will get less and less valuable. the engineers who do real work will still make tons, but the 90% of fags will lose

t. statistician that works with software devs

>>53569344

>>53570270
>90% of software engineers and CS majors are just straight up midwit fags who are both extremely mediocre intellectually and lazy.
sounds like the perfect candidates to buy my bags

>>53567990
Take scenario A and spend the whole year looking for a better job somewhere else, or if you aren't a lazy faggot do something in the next year that will convince them not to cut your pay and drop you to a lower level.

>>53569753
you do if you sell your software as a service which most companies do these days. the software is so insanely complex that you really do need teams of technically minded people to maintain the whole thing. these days companies are turning parts of the product into microservices because of this - makes it easier to maintain it and it scales better as well generally speaking. you don't need so many people in hr i agree but they were hired only because money was cheap and to get bigger loans companies needed more employees so they employed bunch of these people who are now getting fired.

>>53569463
It is the double edge sword of tech companies. They can get to market basically as quickly as the code monkeys can slap it all together. Which means that they're happy to pay through the nose for top tier talent if it shortens them getting to market.
Whereas in manufacturing or chemical production, figuring out what needs doing is just the first leg of the ordeal. Then several months/years and capital intensive construction to get it built and to market.

>>53568003
Ending work from home will hurt all workers

>>53569573
As others have said, its about their productivity. Imagine if you were a business owner and you knew you could pay 2x in salary to get a product made that will pull in 10 million a year and the person you're hiring will get it done 6 months faster than the other guy. Basic ROI that this guy is going to make you an extra 5 mil and assuming he does nothing for the next 5 years you're still money ahead.

Thank god Jpow pumped the markets so I could retire in 2021. Was making close to $400k/year total comp with about $140k base. I can't imagine going back to sub $200k income if I had no other investment income, christ.

>>53573582
This. Pre-pandemic through 2022 I was making 250k base and 550,000 total compensation as a dev outside of San Francisco Bay Area. That was not enough to live on sustainably. I got laid off in December and now I can’t even find similar work that pays $330,000 total comp. Decided to throw in the towel and move to Miami for lower cost of living. Wife is stay at home mom with our two adopted nigerians. I finally got snipped and the vasectomy is the best thing that ever happened to me. Don’t have to worry about it anymore. Life is good

>>53569676
>Yes, but it only needs to be made once.
Lol no, there is a constant amount of work for new features, keeping up with scale (traffic, storage), keeping up with dependencies changes (platforms, services, libraries you use change).

And there is a lot of time only 1 or a few people understand a certain component in the system, which is complex and has many different pieces, and they can fix issues or implement new features literally 100x faster than a new guy could even if he was really good. And those issues may affect millions of users and billions of dollars.

>>53573649
Is this bait?

>>53573731
the adopted nigerians and vasectomy give it away, but otherwise its a pretty common thing a lot of high earning programmers are doing. Why work for low money when you made enough in the last few years to retire?

>>53573675
feels like something that a person with job security concerns would say. if its well made you absolutely don't need an army of nodejs codemonkeys around. a lot of the people these companies employ just change shit so they can keep the job but not because its actually necessary. its why google is always making those small but annoying changes that no one actually needs. like that rainbow effect on the like button or that resource wasting ambient mode. these are the kind of guys that whine about being important and deserving their ridiculous compensation

>>53573951
The guys implementing that shit aren't the ones deciding what features to add. The product managers decide what features to add, and the devs go about implementing it.

>>53569573
>had to mention this
any plans what you will do after school? lying on the internet won't pay the bills

lol the free lunch is over itcuck

Holy shit the blue collar seethe threads on this board are the best. Its saturday wagie, dont you have to be onsite to get your 8 hours of overtime so you can match my salary?

>>53573951

>>53573996
so there is potential to fire not just a programmer of stupid shit but a manager and everyone that works under him?

>>53573649
kek

>>53574127
i think the most fucked up part is that they expect you to take expensive education for these positions. anyone could learn in minutes to do what he did but nooo you have to sit in a gay ass university hearing about trannies and blm to get the position

>>53574127
kek, obviously a joke tho

>>53574152
Yeah a lot of lay offs is firing middle managers and shit that don't actually do work, just delegate. Often its a good senior engineer that wants to "go into management" and gets promoted to "lead" or something and gets a few minion juniors. They can fire the juniors and just have the senior go back to getting shit done fast, or fire the senior and keep the juniors. In the end you remove the manager and just have more people doing actual work.

>>53574118
not really i live in a non rtw state so i actually get paid for my time

>>53574127
You are telling me this is the work output of this person from 2007 till now?

>>53567990
>this Reddit post confirms my retarded bias!

I make 300k suck me

>>53569463
>I laugh at people who thought those salaries were sustainable.
They were obviously unsustainable, but some people let it go to their heads and they thought that because they made $500k/year they were suddenly God's Gift To the Industry. If someone didn't prepare for the Good Times to end, that's on them.

There's an industry shift happening, just like with the end of the dotcom era. It'll take a few years of shitty times in tech, but eventually companies will be paying ridiculous salaries for people who have some specific skills.

>>53569573
This is probably hard for you to believe with your limited knowledge on the matter, but software engineers are typically expected to by high-paying employers to possess a highly specialized set of skills that most people in the world are quite literally too retarded to understand. Most normalfags for example still think that programming is "typing really fast and hacking into the matrix."

Plumbers aren't as valued because any monkey can be trained to be a plumber. Much harder to train a monkey to design complex systems, maintain it and design it to be modular in order to hopefully reduce the impact of errors, and build the system to scale to business levels.

>>53569516
And here I've been this whole time doing it for free smdh...

>>53574311
>Code monkey seething cuz AI will take his job

>>53574203
>fire the senior and keep the juniors.
that's been the pattern in this layoff cycle.

>>53567990
Thank you God for answering my prayers

CS was always the ultimate meme job. It was fun for a while, but with the release of AI tools like ChatGPT its clear that the "just learn to code" era was bound to bust. There's far too much supply at the masters and undergraduate level of programmers looking to make a quick buck. The professors know this so they let students get away with shitty copy and pasted code. CS nowadays constitutes the vast majority of STEM students. The brilliant programmers don't exist anymore, as the bar to entry is very low. Many companies prefer Phd's in physics and math for extremely high level software jobs now.

In a way the programming bubble reminds me of Dutch Tulip Mania, the people buying the tulips at inflated prices looking to make a quick buck, are not too far off the bloatware tech companies, paying unsustainable salaries and giving out worthless stock to get a poorly designed product to market sooner. At the end of the day both turned out to be intrinsically worthless and easily replaceable. A tulip, can be replaced by a rose, just how tiktok is replacing facebook.

>>53574639
All social media is a meme. Useless trash

>>53567990
Bunch of frail retards with too much spending on crap, typical smoothbrains.

>>53569344
yes

>>53569676
>Yes, but it only needs to be made once.
lol, tell me you know nothing of software development etc.

>>53574193
We live in a society in which useless eaters at the top make all the money with little effort, but to get into the aristocracy you need to go through the Jewish indoctrination right of passage that is university. Society is a joke

>>53567990
NOOOOO skill demand only goes up

>>53569516
Faggot ignorant ass anon.
Tradies are treated like crap though typically. You gotta be able to walk from jobs very much a merc mentality like with coders or you will get abused with the added benefit of physical safety risks.
Any plumber whose licensed will just use hist ools so he never has to touch shit ever. Most of that stuff is done using funnily enough the same but massively scaled up tools that a surgeon would when performing noninvasive surgeries. lots of flexible camera work and very interesting patch repair. Expanding carbon resins specifically.
That being said the only plumbing pipes you'd ever go in would be main line city sewers for emergency repair or scheduled maintenance. In that case they will be shut off to some extant.
Oh, those guys are union and they are making minimum six figures. They will be the last jobs to be fully automated. Their expertise has a constant shortage and they work what they want and for however long they want.
A.I. will be improving itself independant of human input before they're replacement happens.

>>53567990
software will suffer the fate of every other engineering discipline: $100k/year cuckoldry.

>>53567990
>Should I take more money or less money. The less money comes with a lot of promises, but taking the more money would hurt my feelings.
Redditors are cattle

>>53567990
The current model is clearly unsustainable. In my company we have just a handful of software development teams doing actual work. The rest are loitering around (if they come to the office at all). They also have endless meetings for trivial shit, while my team just talks while working most of the time. And we don't have scrum and all that faggy shit.

As the crisis deepens companies will have to become leaner and get rid of dead weight. But for those who survive it, I think the industry will become better.

>>53574311
>My job is secure cause most people cant do it.
No job has ever become obsolete because suddenly too many people were trained to do it. However, numerous jobs have become obsolete because a machine was invented that could do it faster. In short, seethe.

>>53574290
I started in tech in 97(yeah im old)
Maybe 2 years in one of the execs said to me 'in 15 years tech workers will be like the auto workers. He was right on

>>53577334
except he's not...
software engineering still commands a very high salary

>>53577427
Not for those that get layed off

>>53569949
user_input=input("enter some int: ")
try:
n = int(user_input)
except:
print("pee pee poo poo")

print(*map(lambda i: 'Fizz'*(not i%3)+'Buzz'*(not i%5) or i, range(1, n)),sep='\n')

# ingenius because it concatenates fizz and buzz

>>53569344
He is worse than the tradie. He is - may Allah forgive me - a boomer

>>53569949
Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Do Normies Not Get Abstract Concepts Hahahaha Nigga Just Use Clockwork Arithmetic Like Nigga Just Use The Modulus Function

>>53569573
because the only real competition in big tech is poaching bodies - not talent. google employs almost 200k people not because those 200k are exceptionally talented, but because if they don't, someone else will. they then pay them a good salary to ensure they stick around and muster a modicum of corporate loyalty. amassing human capital for the sake of growth is a power play, and it's an exceedingly expensive power play. that's not a problem when you're thoroughly subsidized by state gibs.

those gibs are drying up, however. it's not a system built for long term sustainability. they created a ten year bull run, now get ready for a ten year bust.

>>53577334
didnt auto, chem and aerospace go through similar cycles way back when

>>53567990
now that literally everyone learned to code, the market is totally saturated.
who woulda thought?

>>53572288
This is modern day art

>>53573649

>>53568003
>WFH parasites
found the kike

>>53580749
Yes, synthetic chemist was the SWE of the 20th century.

>>53567990
Let's see an era of "artisinal blue collar work" to get us going into the middle stretch of Clown World 2020 right
$300K starting for Senior Custodial Rockstar, requires 2 certs, an MS from a tier one, and a laundry list of conference attendances and presentations in your CV to get.
Asian kids fighting fiercely over the best mop head during finals week. God, please.

>>53568003
why do you need to be inside a cubicle to do white collar grunt work?

>>53569653
Op isn't coping. You're going to find out soon that in a market crash you're not going to be needed because your company most likely won't be around.

Tech job salarys are so retardedly Inflated right now.

Be weary.

>>53579978
You wouldn't last one day on a job, you are suppose to write simple code that even I can understand.

>>53568003
if you ever consider the possibility that there is a single benefit of working from an office you should kill yourself. this has been a PSA from a person who is not a braindead retard. this is true for 100% of people who sit at a desk for their job, there are no exceptions. if this is not obvious to you, you should kill yourself

>>53567990
No they aren't. These massively inflated top end salaries are collapsing. It always was FAGMAN California salaries vs the rest of us. Overall I think its a good thing and it will drive up salaries in these non top end tech companies looking to hire ex Googlers etc. Sucks for them that they'll have to take a pay cut and live in the real world but I'll probably get a healthy pay bump when I move companies next, so I think it'll even out.

Also these cunts are going to find out that they actually have to work for their "measly" 150k salaries and will be expected to have something to show for it at the end of the day.

If they want to keep their TC they should build their own shit instead if they were ever good enough.

>>53567990
>boohoo i'll be demoted in the top 1.2% earners instead of 1.1% what do
I hate those plebbiniggers and their constant soft bragging about meaningless shit no one cares about.

>>53568003
You right. The bull market and excess capital allows for dead weight in corporations. As soon as it ends though HR, Middle manager's, and random eye candy hires are the first to get axed.

>>53580164
Kek

>>53582759
I thought HR roasties are untouchable?

>>53574118
Ngl, I’m seething. I make $150k, but I’m at work rn.

>>53582780
lol yeah right they have personal lives, digital footprints, past connections and plenty of logical dirt to fling back into their faces.
i know who you're talking about and the diversity hires are probably the hardest to dig out. as far as i can tell they're just anchors and a good sign it's time for you to move on.