/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53542010
I've only used paper/hot wallets since 2017 and never had a problem.

yes
passport or coldcard, if it isnt airgapped you could be keylogged or wrenched because ledger stores your IP and wallet addresses

>>53542501
>because ledger stores your IP and wallet addresses
wait what?!

>>53542401
if you have $20 in your wallet you probably don't care, but for someone investing his savings its hardcore stuff

>>53542597
ledger transactions go throught their own node, and theyve had previous data leaks of delivery addresses, resulting in possible wrench attacks and doxxing
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ledger-may-secure-not-private-084133145.html

>>53542010
make a seedsigner if you hold bitcoin
use airgap vault if your coin is supported
otherwise use a tails usb with persistent storage like the rest of us did before the hadrware wallet meme came about

>>53542796
jesus fuck!
so in the best case its a glowie honey pot.

can you recommend some alternative?, not necessary hardware, i just want my fund to be safe

>>53543086
then what? i install metamask and write my seen on every boot?

>>53542796
That may be true for their official software wallet, but afaik you can simply avoid using it and not have this problem. Many open source wallets that allow you to run your own node support ledger.

>>53543109
>metamask
there's your >>53543092
>glowie honey pot.

>>53543092
like i said, passport or coldcard
ive had both, passport is a better experience hands down, but both are good

if it’s an “investment” to you then no lol your poor ass has nothing of value to store on it. Keep your 20 DOGE on Coinbase

>>53543092
I've had 7 figures on my ledger and not a single doxx or wrenching took place. Yes, I checked the leaks and found myself. People thinking you'll get found out are paranoid, that's all.

>>53542010
>investing
its just like 40 bucks
bruh I bought one back in 2019 and barely use because its unpractical and im staking most of my coins
but yeah you should get one to learn about self custody and having the possibility to get it all in you in case of i dunno niggers

>>53542796
>wrench attack
God I wish a nigga would try

>>53543109
>i install metamask
if it's supported by metamask it's supported by airgap wallet

>and write my seed on every boot?
or keep it in the encrypted partition, which you should use a good (24+random character or 6+ diceware) password on. it's annoying, but at least funds should be safu
i forgot the other option of just buying a dedicated generic android phone, installing whatever you need on there, and never connecting it to the internet again; mobile OS-es are surprisingly secure and don't really open you up to supply chain attacks like a hardware wallet can

>>53543384
is that supposed to be sarcastic?

yes
just not one from a company that doesn't have the capability of securing trivial data like shipping addresses and emails, like ledger. if they can't do that, you think they have the talent and capability to deal with the much more difficult problems of cryptography?

never buy anything from ledger, if you have one of their devices you can keep using it, but never replace it with another.
trezor is good if you use a passphrase
stay away from any device based on android
stay away from any company that actively hires against talent with "diversity" quotas or isn't based in north america or europe. you want browns managing your security?
stay away from any device with wireless capabilities unless you want something that works with a mobile device exclusively

there aren't many options outside of trezor or niche devices like passport after that.

>>53542010
No, because if you need to think about spending $50 for a wallet you don't have enough crypto to justify anyway.

>>53543303

What about Trezor?

I've seen the video where some very skilled hardware hacker retrieves the funds from a Trezor. But I'm ok with that. Any other concerns?

>>53544048
if it isnt airgapped your keys will touch the internet unencrypted every time you sign a transaction, and especially if you get keylogged its over

>>53544100

Only the signed transactions ever leave the device as far as I am aware. Your private key stays on the device, regardless of whether the device you're connecting to has malware on it.

>>53544180
at that level you have to trust that theres no exploit that can retrieve the key from the device over usb though, while with an airgapped wallet its physically impossible

>>53544100
coldcard isn't "airgapped" though, it uses sd cards. if you're going to be that paranoid you shouldn't be using anything but those schizo qr code wallets like passport.

>>53542010
not really, usb sticks are cheaper and safer for storing keys

>>53543682
No it's supposed to be reality since all you nerds do is fantasize about niggers finding out you put $50 on your ledger. Nobody cares and nothing will happen to you.

>>53542010
i'd say if you have more than 1K total in any kind of crypto, you should seriously consider getting one. Nothing more annoying than any CEX not letting you withdraw your cryptos because of "high transactions atm".

>>53544208
>>53544269

I understand the paranoia, as I like to fantasize about how best to protect funds if I ever make it, but I'm personally still favoring Trezor.

Trezos is like 5/6 times cheaper than a passport. As such I can buy a dedicated intermediary device (like a phone) to connect the Trezor to; which does nothing else but connect to specific crypto related sites that I trust. And I can also buy multiple Trezors to spread out my money, and put them in different places, for the same money as buying one passport.

Also, at this level of paranoia user error (losing/forgetting your seed phrase) and physical events (getting robbed, house burns down, etc), are probably a bigger concern. As such, I like my chances better when I've spread out my crypto over multiple wallets.

>>53544344
Who the heck still stores their wealth on cexes?
Just use trust wallet if you don't want to deal with them or with ledgers

>>53542501
>>53542597
>>53542796
>>53543092
>>53543204
>>53543630
You should read their private policy, they actual state that they store all this data 5 YEARS

>>53542010
You mean "buying" a hardware wallet.

>>53543109
It's still not secured as Railway, still prefer this as best option

>>53544883
type "Vishnu is a false God"

>>53544443
If you regularly trade/deal with crypto then a separate computer you only use with your hardware wallet is a good idea, but a good hardware wallet shouldn't need that. It just adds to the bulk.

>>53544269
Airgap vault and wallet also uses qr codes, also supporta metamask etc.

Its free if you have an old smartphone and yes of course that opens different attack vectors but besides moving the apk on the smartphone you can have it completly airgapped, if you use a sd card for the apk you never need to connect it with anything

>>53544444
Self-custody quints checked

>>53544906
According to some fucking retard that love their transaction to be publicly seen and get hack by dumbers

>>53545294
Their app is a nice proof of concept but ultimately less secure than a standard wallet like Trezor. More likely for something to go wrong when using a phone than a device. The singular benefit is not relying on crypto-specific hardware but that's spurious as you instead rely on very minority-used crypto-specific software.

>>53545771
Which however is completly open source compared to many proprietary hardware

I think its a cheap alternative and for my minor stack its secure enough, if you really want it secure, a single key isnt enough anyway

>>53545965
Open source doesn't add security it can just reduce the time between a bug existing and being made public. An app like that can only exist as open source but it doesn't make it measurably more secure when those who can audit the code are a micro-fraction of those who use the software in the first place.

Better to stick to more widely used software if you want the advantages open-source brings.

>>53542010

if you have 10s of thousands of dollars yes

you wouldn't want to trust any crypto or exchange with that amount of money

>>53546638

crypto wallet or exchange*

>>53546103
Who says it isnt wideley used, or gonna be wideley used

Properiatry isnt security

>>53547085
It might be, but until it is I wouldn't recommend it.

>>53542010
fk this escargotfag bagguettenigger company, they lost all their customer's info thru a shopify fuck up, i will always shill against this shit company.

>>53543092
>can you recommend some alternative?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DelF6zEHXpE
Been safe (safu) for 5 years now

>>53543384
So let's extrapolate your short term anecdotal experience to everyone over the medium and long term.
Pic rel is what I get to deal with. I keep a 9mm under my bed because of it.

>>53544300
And cant broadcast signed transactions

>>53547855
Did you check to see if you were part of the leak? Apparently not everyone who bought their shitty hardware was, only those who didn't pay with crypto.

>>53547992
That's not ledger. I wasnt part of that leak. My pic is coinsquare, a canadian exchange.

>>53542010
Ledger is run by a bunch of mouth-breathing mongoloids who will inevitably end up leaking your data to some Romanians, so no. Store large amounts in a device you mainly keep offline and if you want to trade shitcoins metmask is completely fine as long as you are not a retard (this part is essential, since all instances of metmask hacks have been the result of retards opening the front door).

>>53542501
This is why you should just buy a Trezor Model One and call it a day.

>>53548206
ledger doesnt collect eyepees
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/klwc13/does_ledger_lives_servers_still_log_your_ip/
>Trezor
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9y-KQbqi4

>>53548206

I have the cheap Trezor One. Is that still good, or no?

>>53548592

They have to get the physical device to hack it? Good luck.

>>53547855

What the fuck is a coinsquare?

Daily reminder: Jannies are sponsored by ledger.

Anyone telling you not to own a hardware wallet on /biz/ is a fed or malware coder (indian, chinese, slav/russian, romanian).

Ledger is okay, but trezor is superior.

Buy trezor, swap coins for BTC, and then store into coldcard mk4.

>>53542010
>usb key with wallet.dat for10x the markup
no, not worth it

I'm a developer and the knowledge this guy has is mind blowing. A wrench carrying nigger is about 150 IQ points short to copy what he did. Plus they need access to your device and they need to stop you from changing your crypto to another wallet in the meanwhile.


And if they're willing to kill/torture you, it doesn't matter much what wallet you have.

>>53548899
Messed up the You's.

But I was talking about the Trezor, for as far that wasn't clear.

>>53542010
sawblades are 10 dollars

>>53542010
>Is it worth investing in a hardware wallet?

Keep cost of your wallet at or under ~1% of crypto - then its a reasonable precaution.

There is no perfect security, only good enough, based on your cost/benefit.

If you have $20 of BTC, do whatever.

If you have $20,000 - probably smart to improve your security.

>>53542796
>previous data leaks of delivery addresses, resulting in possible wrench attacks and doxxing
Wouldn't that just have people know that they have a ledger, not what the wallet address is?

folks would have no way of knowing if you actually hold significant crypto.

Also - Best Buy sells ledgers now - go buy it in cash. Wear a mask cause covid + hat sunglasses. Bike/walk there. No trails.