/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53433114
Yes. Private individuals day-trading is a recipe for disaster. Read Studs Terkel's "Working" the segment about the stock brokers. "We only make our money by convincing them to sell one thing and buy another. But the ones who are really making it, they never sell anything."

>>53433114
Yes it's a meme. Unless you have a lot of capital to risk (millions), you won't be able to support yourself daytrading. If you're retired and have a ton of fuck it money, knock yourself out. If you think daytrading will get you out of your 9-5, you're retarded.

You either need a huge amount of initial capital to day trade, or you need to leverage trade. And 97% of leverage traders lose money.

I know 3 people who started trying to day trade
Coworker:
>only 20k starting investment
>spent all day trying to day trade while at work
>ended up getting fired for not working and being on his phone all day
>only managed to get a maximum of 100 dollars gain a day, but plenty of days he'd end down
>netted less than a quarter of the pay from work
Boss:
>1 million initial investment
>spends all day at work trying to day trade
>loses projects worth hundreds of thousands because his focus is on his stocks
>was up 30%
>now down to 700k
>he's given up
Bosses friend:
>2 million initial investment
>retired so he can spend all day no worries
>down 1.5 million

All of them thought they were smarter than everyone else and could beat the market

>>53433114
Let's set it this way, Daytrading is not a scam but it could be a scam.

Just like a marriage is not a scam but you could end up robbed by your woman.

>>53433114
It is an obtainable career but only if you're smart enough to develop a winning system and patient, emotionless, and disciplined enough to execute like a robot day in and day out.
>>53433171
>Unless you have a lot of capital to risk
Enter prop firms.

>>53433114
it's a meme. you're going up against jewish insiders. whether it's actual insider information or just profession jew trader wagies getting early news on bloomberg terminal (and sharing TOTALLY NOT INSIDER KNOWLEDGE on the bloomberg chat app), you're at a severe disadvantage. for every good trade you make, you'll make several devastatingly bad trades.

>>53433417
>for every good trade you make, you'll make several devastatingly bad trades.
I guess retards really don't into risk management.

>>53433114
A scam? No. Foolish? Most likely. Most trading is done by computers that are much smarter and faster than any equipment you have at home. Even trading not done by computers is done by professional day traders who have spent decades doing nothing but eating, sleeping, and living day trading. I wouldn't be foolish enough to think I am more savvy or cunning than a machine or a professional.

>>53433417
>jew
>trader
They are brokers selling people smoke, Belford is still my favorite kike.

>>53433485
I assume you've never accomplished anything professionally in your life with that attitude. Most people don't even know the instruments they should be using for day trading. It's not stocks, it's not options.

"You'll never know how good you might have become unless you try"
-Mike Mentzer

>>53433577
>Most people don't even know the instruments they should be using for day trading.
I do. Spot and max leverage. 1 minute chart, and stop loss is for pussies.

>>53433608
>Spot and max leverage
>1 minute chart
>stop loss is for pussies
You're the one who gives day trading a bad name when you fail catastrophically.

>>53433149
Agreed. The secret to trading is to only buy and never sell.

>>53433149
>But the ones who are really making it, they never sell anything.
Confirmed I don't need to read this book because this is just wrong. The ones who are making it sell everything. Market makers sell every type of position to market participants and hedge to make money on the spread or decaying options.

>>53433658
I'll make it back, all I need is just one good trade

anything that you can read or find on youtube is a scam. It is possible to day trade if you have knowledge that 99% of people don't know.

>>53433312
I worked for an investment platform. 70% of people lose money. One of the clients called a coworker and asked him wtf he should do, he gambled away 200k of his wife's money

>>53433114
Daytrading is like a mule with a spinning wheel, no one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it

https://www.youtube.com/@simpleton8073

This is the only guy I've ever seen on youtube who actually daytrades for a living and isn't selling anything.

>>53433114
Forcing yourself to take trades every day is a scam. Staying aware of market conditions and taking 1-5 trades a month to capitalize on macro cycles is not a scam. You can make a living off of a mid 6 figure bank roll this way but you have to have other shit going on in your life or you will self sabotage.

Yes. One way to think of it is on the service side, what are you doing when you day trade? You're providing liquidity, but on the inside spread. That is the business of market makers, and they have more information and faster connections to the market than you. You don't have an edge, so you're probably going to lose.

I'd say doing something like providing a hedge is more fair game in short time frames for retail traders, but overall it isn't that lucrative so you'll probably feel like you're wasting time. It's practically a hobby for people. What I mean by providing a hedge is writing options contracts and collecting premiums. You CAN come out with a profit on that, but generally it is going to match the risk of the contract. That is the overall issue with short term trading strats for retail, the major markets in equities are very liquid. You don't have an edge, so you're probably either going to lose or you're going to approximate the average return. If you approximate the average return on a modest sum of money, then you're basically wasting your time because the amount you are getting isn't going to be much, whereas you could be spending time trying to increase your regular income to just have more money to save. As usual, the more dependable money is in managing other people's money, because if you can manage to beat the average return, even if it is by less than 1%, that could be a difference of millions of dollars for someone else with more money. So you charge them a fee to manage their money and make your bag that way, rather than piddling around managing your own money.

That doesn't mean you're retarded for playing around in financial markets, but it really is bordering on a hobby. You can think of it as gambling since you're probably motivated by a big score, but if you acknowledge it is gambling then you need to think about what you're willing to lose.

>>53434175
>has no way of telling where stock will go in next 5min
>is going to time it in next 5months

>>53434301
You can be short vega, long theta, neutral delta, and very long gamma at the same time. What I'm describing is a hedged short strangle which is almost impossible to lose with and a certified income generator if you know what you're doing.

>>53433114
Its not a scam if you aren't a complete fucking degenerate retard. Go learn to code.

>>53434301
Also I should mention markets are historically inefficient when it comes to pricing future risk. That's where the edge is. In recent years we've actually seen quite a bit of inefficiency in the option markets week to week compared to the past when we had a steady bull market.

>>53434537
Based. Also scalping edges are often so small they can be ruined if too many people pile onto the same trades, so no one shares their edges for free and if they are selling an edge it won't work as well.

>>53433415
>develop a winning system

>>53434625
Get back to work wagie. You're clearly not cut out for it.

>>53433577
>-Mike Mentzer
lol this dude quit bodybuilding after losing to Arnold, then became a methhead

>>53434634
Wow you sound like the real deal. Where do I sign up for your discord?

>>53434163
he's selling your time to YouTube, retard

>>53434650
>Implying winning traders have anything to sell
I thought that was the whole point of this thread. Determining that the people who sell you shit and waste their time lying to people on Discord are not actual traders. I make plenty from my trading alone but it only takes me two hours a day and I spend the rest of the time doing whatever. Still have a 4chan addiction.

>>53433114
No. You just dont have the instruments to properly day trade. You dont need seminars to learn how

>>53433114
gotta be one of the hardest jobs in the world

>>53434843
The hard work is frontloaded into the first few years of research and developing your strategy and composure. Those years will be filled with a lot of self doubt and emotion. Have to work that out of yourself. Contrary to popular belief, the hard part begins after you have a working system.

>>53434672
why does everyone here have a 5 bed room house 2 lambos and 10 million a month salary cap

Hey retard being in the 1% is like 200k NETWORTH under 40, the chances of you having more than pot to piss is ridiculously low

>>53435007
Damn jeets gettin jelly. 200k isnt even half a basic bitch house in the shit part of town. Whitey keep dabbin on your village.

>>53435007
I wouldn't be rich if I wasted my capital spending frivolously on depreciating assets. I make a comfortable 6 figure living, it's not that crazy but I enjoy the money management more than material things. I'm also American so 200k isn't that much.

>>53434472
It's way easier to predict long term trends than short, but compounding is much slower so much less reward.

>>53433114
I daytrade. Have done so for a decade. The trick is to have sizeable capital and not to get greedy. Be happy with small wins. You also need to be diversified. 30% in a safe stable uptrending grandpa stock (with dividend) that you continue to hold and dont touch. 20% for risky bets which are laughably undervalued or on which you have some alpha (browse biz and yes even wsb for insider stuff). With 50% you trade safe stocks which you do not mind holding for a while even if your scalp does not pay off immediatley. Do not get emotional and go against the grain, i.e. buy fear, sell euphoria.

>>53433114
Its only a meme and a scam if you don't treat it like a business. Crypto is a scam from top to bottom...at least I've made money day trading stocks, options and forex. I'm up early (3am) and trade til 2pm-ish...go to the gym, get sleep and repeat tomorrow. Been doing it for 12+ years now.
I've told my story here many times, not repeating again. Very few have the DISCIPLINE to be successful.
And AVOID crypto if you want to daytrade, it ain't happening no matter what any fags here say.

>>53433716
But when do you actually make money?

it's not hard to earn money
100 dollars = 2 ES points = 8 ticks only

but normies want more than 100 dollars every day and they fuck up. And they trade shitcoins and manipulated stocks and cfd and options LOL

>>53433206
Most traders lose because they keep riding out their trades. "Just a little higher" "Just one more pump".
The house always wins because most people never just cut with their winnings, they keep playing until they lose.