/biz/ - Business & Finance

because he can't control the fucking price? all he can do is control interest rates

>>53307840
Interest goes up, demand goes down, prices drop.

>>53307826
>Waaah waaah waaah!!!
What he should be upset at his father for is the fact that he apparently never slapped the bitch out of his son.

>>53307873
You forgot supply. Some homeowners hold back on selling as prices drop.

>>53307826
Reminder that this guy is the zoomer generation's Stanley Kubrick. This is pure kino by their standards

>>53307826
It takes 2-3 years for homecucks to capitulate.

>>53307873
assuming they're willing to sell at that price you'd be shocked to hear the delusions of home owners

why is luigi so mad

>>53307873
>be brown skinned poorfag from guatemala
>us government drops you in california
>you receive safe haven until the country gives you citizenship
>get shipped to midwest to work in a factory or warehouse
you not only keep the housing prices up in california by paying rent in a house and not allowing that house to go on the market, but in wisconsin because the small town that you live in doesn't have housing for rent but you buy whatever is available on the market because you'll get a 0 down payment mortgage for your 150k 4 bedroom house that you're gonna fit your 10 family members in
not to mention the amount of eastern europeans that are getting shipped to the same parts of the country
look up the raid in Postville, Iowa in 08
this has been happening for longer than you believe

>>53308113
Based

>>53307826
Based J-Pow. Real estate is gonna drop eventually, but what needs to be avoided is massive buying by institutional money, and to do thay you need to pass laws that limit ownership.

>>53307826
>>53307929
>>53308113
>>53308347
>>53308571
Amazingly, this little retard is a pro immigration leftie.
Literally can’t connect the dots, while actively giving up the leverage they have over boomer elites (limited population) for woke points, then crys on anti work.

>>53307826
Because everyone is sitting on sub-4% interest rates and has no reason to sell. The only homes on the market are people who are forced to sell.

>>53308113
Wait serious?
Jesus Christ zoomers are fucking retarded.
Hopefully the next generation isn't completely hopeless.

Does the dude in the video realize that "cheaper" homes back then weren't as cheap as he thinks because the dollar was stronger? It was harder to get less money.

Does the dude in this thread realize that despite the dollar being strong real wages have only declined while real house prices have only gone up for the last 80 years?

>>53308921
It's all relative moron

>>53308921
Relax anon, that person isn't even American. He has no clue what he's talking about. It's best to let them ramble.

>>53308963
You poor people are so annoying

every fucking boomer is such a joke fucking never sell then unload for 1.9 million dollars fucking erode all taxpayer money on medicare and social security nothing will be left

j pow should be lynched printed money saved every single small business instead of letting them fail and allowing new generations to have a chance printed trillions so rich could get richer record profits record inflation does nothing for the little guy fuck you j pow fuck u gensler fuck u citadel securities and apex clearing and all you faggot 1 percenters you should be shot by firing squad

>>53308992
The boomers worked everyday, wore a suit, shook hands, and paid into social security their whole lives. They deserve that money. Gen X should probably be cut off though.

Housing prices started falling in 2005 and didn't bottom until 2009. Housing moves slow.

>>53309024
yeah like we dont fucking work 40 to 60 hour weeks too
you need to be shot to death until you are killed you fucking nigger

>>53309302
Zoom zoom deserve it for being pro migrant women retards
They can enjoy the min wage and rent

>>53309337
zoom zoom wasn't responsible for hart-cellar and trillions being dumped into civil rights act rulings, read age of entitlement

Because the USA is still being flooded with infinite brown people and the housing stock is owned by boomers and hedge funds as rental properties and companies are deliberately building "mid tier properties" instead of "starter homes" because millennials have no choice if they want a house and then they'll say "no one forced you to get back into mortgage debt after you paid off your school debt you stupid millennial". And by the time the millennials have actual political power to get back at those people, they'll be dead of old age anyway.

>>53308742
People said that about zoomers in 2016, the reality here is that GEN ALPHA will get memes of the alpha chad guy and then they'll be furries by the time they turn 18 in a few years. It's better to just live your life and ignore what teens and kids are doing because it only takes away from your own focus and then you wake up and you're a seething man in his 60s wondering where it all went wrong.

>>53308661
Leftoid millennials/zoomers are based retards. Because they make me laugh since they're too dumb to figure out why their life is fucked.

>>53309663
Sure
But zoom zoom and militards sure do love woke points and immigration
Their fault
They can enjoy diveristy’s REAL consequences now

>>53309685
You wanna see literal cath 22? Go to anti work.
They literally cry about min wage and boomers, while defending migrants and hating “right wingers” for wanting a close borders
It’s too fucking retarded and they don’t even get how fucked they are making themselves to be
You know what is their response to it?
“Migrants will realize how the american dream is dead and pay is low and will refuse to work like the rest of us and we unite against elites” unable to realize a horde stay behind the border ready to replace “ungrateful” workers
They are too far gone
Jews have won

>>53309676
This is literally the most based response in this whole thread, nay, in the entirety of 4chan
You can’t fix the brainwashed
Forget about them and save your own ass and your own family

>>53308661
immigration is good , america braindraining the rest of the world since it's inception has been one of it's greatest strengths. this country was built on crazy desperate fuckers from all around the world. we took all the crazies and left the docile pussies in their respective countries

>>53309668
Get back at them? lol
There is no more economic mobility
By the time millennials are old, the income tax would be higher, we probably would have 100% death tax, and even reparations and paid money for pregnant blax women all over usa (California reparation commits, San Fran actually paying black women of ANY income to bring in more kids , San Fran wanting to pay 5 million to every black person( even immigrants), San Fran wants to pay 70k to every black individual for the next 240 years etc all from, you guessed it, militards and zoom zooms)
They won’t have any power
But they fucking deserve all the pain for voting for this shit
Hope they enjoy the fruits of their labors (probably won’t, they be too brain dead by then, with the drugs, vr, ar etc. they might even do an assistant sui before turning too old who knows)

>>53309742
Lol I love how you still believe their lies.
I bet you think population collapse is a real thing too.

>>53309742
Oh I forgot, crazy desperate people who will work for ANY pay, right?
That’s the point

>>53309806
yeah, good for the country , bad for the individual is a fair point

>>53309940
750,000 central and south americans a year isn't good for the individual nor the country in the long run, honestly the daring high-IQ immigrant types stopped coming decades ago and were a minority of immigrants even then

>>53307826
no he said he wanted to make everyone poor because we made too much money in speculative bubbles

>>53309940
You mean good for the BIG corporations right?
Look I get it, more population higher taxes, more purchase, cheaper products, more consumption, more quality of “life” etc
But if people weren’t retarded this wouldn’t get this bad, were people protest “immigrants welcomed” and scream “where is my higher min wage” at the same time.
Capitalism is not bad. But capitalism system in a society is with dumb retarded population is turn into parasitism real fast.
Hence why I blame the both boomers and younger generation for this shit show.

>>53309955
>honestly the daring high-IQ immigrant types
these are great, but if they just want to take it easy and just do blue collar work to support their family that's pretty cool too.
I'm worried about our college system tho, used to be our way to steal all the giga brain immigrants
>>53309973
it's hard to separate big corpo/gov so yeah

illegal immigration is bad and them getting a lot of assistance is not great either.
maybe i am naive

>>53310039
University are literal scams nowadays
1- they all pro immigrants, pro “dreamers” because it gets them tons of money
2- they collaborate with government and perpetuate lies such as “we need x million lab workers, or we have shortage of engineers” then they charge you XXX while barely preparing you for the job.
The high paying jobs are taken by two kind of people, high iq people and visa people who are desperate and accept any pay. The midwit stay jobless or have to compete with pajeet and be “reasonable” which means get used to lower pay.
Honestly I don’t know you, so I don’t care if you are “naive” or not.
You are like all a drop in an ocean of voters/consumers who are getting dumber by each passing day.
Even convincing 10000 people won’t change shit.
I used to go on anti work, until I realized youth in this nation are actual lost cause anyway.

>>53310110
>University are literal scams nowadays
>1- they all pro immigrants, pro “dreamers” because it gets them tons of money
>2- they collaborate with government and perpetuate lies such as “we need x million lab workers, or we have shortage of engineers” then they charge you XXX while barely preparing you for the job.
yeah, it seems predatory

>>53307873
> Interest goes up, demand goes down, prices drop
that is not how it works retard. many factors at play including available supply, population working, working age population and inflation.
Year | % Increase | Mortgage Rate
1971 | 6.69% | 7.54%
1972 | 14.51% | 7.38%
1973 | 16.44% | 8.04%
1974 | 9.41% | 9.19%
1975 | 10.75% | 9.05%
1976 | 10.44% | 8.87%
1977 | 13.41% | 8.85%
1978 | 14.34% | 9.64%
1979 | 6.10% | 11.20%
1980 | 6.07% | 13.74%
1981 | 6.02% | 16.64%
1982 | 1.70% | 16.04%
1983 | 6.01% | 13.24%
1984 | 5.27% | 13.88%
1985 | 8.64% | 12.43%
1986 | 9.45% | 10.19%
1987 | 17.37% | 10.21%
1988 | 2.15% | 10.34%
1989 | 9.57% | 10.32%
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS
http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html

>>53307826
Crypto was the first to sell off, then stocks, now used cars, and soon housing. Liquid to least liquid.

We saw the layoffs in tech but most likely soon the rest of the country will experience it. Combine that with the credit bubble and you get a lot of forced home sellers.

>>53310516
Why stop at 1989?

>>53308353
this one is funnier than anything he can come up with

>>53311376
> Why stop at 1989?
Was only trying to show retards that housing can and historical has gone up during high interest rate environments. From 1989 to now .... it still kept going up and up and up. Went up faster with low interest rates. Point being rent cucks always lose and always have some type of cope.

>>53307840
Interest rates affect everything you nigger.
>>53308725
>no reason to sell
The #1 driver for sales is going to be job losses which is going to have enormous consequences because it also affects the ability for buyers to absorb selling pressure as they will also be impacted by job loss.
The next biggest drivers, but far down the list, will be the usual reasons people sell + boomers wanting to retire and coping with their portfolios still being down.

>>53308921
You can still be over extended from the mean and return to it while the mean rises.

>>53311458
>>53311469
so what exactly has housing only gone up since 1960 or before that as pictured here and never really come down? Am I supposed to wait another 100 years?

>>53311606
> pictured here
>>53311454

>>53307840
Aka "the price of money"

>>53311458
>Interest rates affect everything you nigger
Explain how housing kept going up when interest rates went from 7% to 16% >>53310516
Housing seems to go up no matter what

>>53309742
>brain draining
importing a few hundred thousand H1b tech support shitters and millions of 85 IQ squatemalan niggermonkey warehouse/slaughterhouse/landscaping retards != brain draining

>>53308992
Every day more due.
Soon you'll be able to write that boomers were cunts and they will *all* be dead.

>>53309668
> Starter homes
Believes in the housing ladder as an ongoing thing because he failed math

>>53308353
Lol
I hate his face tho

>>53309742
>brain drain
Yeah that’s why our average IQ is fucking plummeting from all those doctors, lawyers and engineers we are getting to pick fruit and do construction labor.

>>53311663
>Explain how housing kept going up
RentCucks can't explain why housing has only gone up for 80+ years anon. Rencucks can't explain why housing kept going up when mortgage rates were on average double digit for 20 years. The best they can come up is this poor fag explanation
>>53308921
> muh real wages have only declined (so housing must correct at some point)
But the fact is this as pictured in the chart posted here (all inflation adjusted)
> High income households have increased from 10.9% in the 1960s to 33% in the 2020s
> Dual income married couples have increased from 30% in 1960s to 60% in the 2020s
> women's income has increased 139%
> today there we have more high income households than low income households
> BUT there has been an overall increase in the number of low income households
So this explains why it's always poorfag incels who are complaining about a house being unaffordable. They are poor. They are dumb. They can't get a woman. They can't afford a house by themselves. But the fact is a couple with a decent IQ and salary have more money today than 50 years ago and have no problem getting a house. RentCuciks will continue to cope.

I'm beginning to think the price of homes isn't gonna go down

>>53311953
>housing goes up 900%
>total money income in your image barely doubles for the richest group
>all households below the rich red segment barely went up 25%
So the most successful people have it "200% better" and that's the best anyone can do these days, but everybody has it 900% worse.
Only landlords have it good. Family men who have a woman have it bad because they need to actually live in the big house with their wife and children, a massive expense, instead of renting it out for massive income.

>>53307826
its renters fault desu

they keep paying landlords more than the carrying cost of their real estate just because its the path of least resistance for them to not die of exposure to the elements. this is increasing the wealth divide further with every rent check written

>>53311606
Did you even read the post you quoted?

>>53312781

That's how societies always go. The majority of humans are natural rentbrains. They are intellectually lazy people who are happy to pay a premium to the owner, non rentbrain, so that they don't have to do any of the thought and work that goes into buying or building a place.

If the US didn't have extraordinarily easy home financing it would be even worse.

>>53311454
>what is opportunity cost
The point, at least for me, is much less about about how far housing will correct and much more about how other assets will outperform it.
If the average home price is $500k it's going to cost me $100k down.
That same down payment could be put towards crypto and get me let's say a 3-5x in a period of time where housing is still finding a bottom.
So I've made more money from that one trade, gotten more money from my other income sources, and the house has gone down in price. Oh and just like you can use leverage to finance your home I can use leverage to finance the purchase of other assets like crypto and see even greater returns.
Please tell me more about how housing always wins. I hate using this analogy but you're talking checkers and I'm taking chess.

>>53311663
Check inflation for the 70s. Why do you think interest rates had to go to 16% in the 80s to begin with?
Also
>The average cost of a new home in 1970 is $26,600 ($167,817 in 2017 dollars).

>>53311953
>RentCucks can't explain why housing has only gone up for 80+ years anon. Rencucks can't explain why housing kept going up when mortgage rates were on average double digit for 20 years. The best they can come up is this poor fag explanation

availability of credit. credit gibs get shut off, property prices go down after some lag period. you're seeing it happen now as the volume of existing homes has dropped through the floor. real estate is slow to react but prices are going down.

>>53312750
> housing goes up 900%
You're confusing my charts.
>>53311454
>>53310516
the housing prices shown are NOT inflation adjusted. Inflation adjusted, the median house price in the 1960s was around $165K and it is around $395K today. Inflation adjusted, it has NOT gone up 900%. it has gone up something like 140%
> total money income in your image barely doubles for the richest group
again, confusing the charts. it's not showing the increase in total income but
>>53311953
percentage of households in the country that fall into the high income category (those earning $100K+ inflation adjusted) has increase. That category of high income households has grown from just 10% in 1960s to over 30%. Combine this with the population growth and it explains why and how median home prices have 140% since the 1960s which is not at all crazy considering there are a ton more households with a a lot more to spend on housing.
So this only appears to be a huge unaffordable bubble to single and/or low income poorfags in the bottom categories of households who haven't leveled up as housing got more expensive.

He isn't raising rates hard enough. He really needs to be doing 150 bps hikes and make Volcker look like a hawk.

>>53313167
> prices are going down
rentcucks always say this but have no data to point to. I just showed you a chart where the housing prices have gone nothing but up for 60 years...
>>53311454
...go back even further to 80 years. It just goes up because of the increasing money supply, inflation, population growth, etc. There are dip years but then it goes up even more. In 80 years, we've had -20% housing pullback ONCE. ONCE in 80 years. RentCucks who waited for a housing crash could have paid $1,200 to $1,400 monthly mortgage payment int 2019-2021 but now must pay $2,200 for a shitter house. And NOBODY is giving up their cheap fixed rate mortgage rates and defaulting on those cheap loans to become a rent cuck. Foreclosure rate even in 2022 is at ATL. It will take a massive massive employment catastrophe to get to a 2008/09 crisis.

Year | Foreclosure Rate
2005 | 0.46%
2006 | 0.58%
2007 | 1.03%
2008 | 1.84%
2009 | 2.21%
2010 | 2.23%
2011 | 1.45%
2012 | 1.39%
2013 | 1.04%
2014 | 0.85%
2015 | 0.82%
2016 | 0.7%
2017 | 0.51%
2018 | 0.47%
2019 | 0.36%
2020 | 0.16%
2021 | 0.11%
2022 | 0.23%

>>53309742
>immigration is good
there's about 10 million illegal south americans living in the states. Their direct family members probably 5 times that

>>53309742
>brain draining
Yeah because the 300k immigrants that show up here every year and the 10s of millions that have already arrived are all brain surgeons and rocket engineers. Do the world a favor and drain your brain on the floor.

>>53308746
You are a dumb nigger

hey man, at least in Canada they've made historical investments in housing and will continue to do so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fvaxYS64o

>>53308661
Kek what a dumbass. Zoomers really are the best. Gen X is the worst, saids a lot considering boomers.
>millennial faggot

>>53314022
gen x are the ultimate shabbos goyim.

>>53313537
what a stupid response, why would you assume someone in favor of "immigration" is talking about illegal immigration? essentially no one thinks illegal immigration is good retard, legal immigration is very restrictive and selects for good people

>>53314063
>essentially no one thinks illegal immigration is good retard

https://news.rice.edu/news/2020/economic-benefits-illegal-immigration-outweigh-costs-baker-institute-study-shows

this is an article i found with 5 seconds of searching. you can find many, many more articles being published every year for the past 2 decades.

>O-OKAY WELL MAYBE YOU CAN FIND EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE SAYING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS GOOD BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE.... BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!!!!!

young people being unable to afford housing is not sustainable, it's a matter of national importance. it's not just "oh boo hoo poor zoomers tiny violin" it's necessary for civilization to function that people can afford somewhere to live. i mean, clearly. prices on houses can't keep going up forever it makes no fucking sense no matter how badly you want your zestimate to pump for a hundred years it just can't.

Population is growing. There are more households due to population growth, Boomers staying in larger homes built for families until death/near death, and divorce/single parenthood. Also, higher median age = greater % of the pop as potential household heads instead of being dependants.

Earlier children were a much greater share of the population (35% trending down to 16% later this century) and the elderly also tended to be dependants, or to simply not live long after retirement.

Old people stay in their homes because they have paid off the mortgages, or have a mortgage for $170k, but condos in the same area might now be $450k. It's also just a cultural thing, people don't want to downsize.

Immigration plays two roles. First it increases the population, particularly the population looking for cheaper homes.

Second, it makes current homeowners less willing to allow housing supply to increase. America has very segregated neighborhoods. "New housing for people with families" increasingly is seen to mean "more brown people." Since schools are based on municipal/county borders in most states, this gives people who don't want integration, regardless of the reason (explicit racism isn't the whole, or even maybe most of the reason) an incentive to block new housing.

Also, many migrants are low skill. Unemployment for just high school educated labor is always high and wages low. These people's incomes are not high enough to cover the debt service on new homes even if the government gave the land away for free.

People who bought in at $650k for a 50 year old 3 bedroom will be financially ruined if supply causes housing to become affordable so they vote to block development.

Supply has been held down, demand keeps going up.

Lesser factors include things like rent seeking by trade unions that make the supply of builders lower, but local regs are the big supply factor.

>>53314276
One solution might be to tell low skill migrants that they have to live in places with excess housing supply and declining populations.

Right now they crowd into the most desirable areas where rents are already sky high and make the poverty problem even worse.

Also, immigrants impose congestion costs on one another. They assimilate more slowly if in majority immigrant communities.

Backlash against immigrants is also worse when change is rapid, e.g., a town going from 5-55+% Hispanic in a generation. There should be some policy to settle people in a dispersed pattern, particularly for asylum cases.

The interest deduction just results in higher home prices, as demand is just increased by the discount, and should be phased out.

Technology made homes way more liquid as an asset, home sales are literally 10 times as fast as the 80s. Internet filing and legal services mean you can get cash out of homes way easier, causing investment money to flood in.

So wealth inequality is another issue, because if the top 10% own 70% of all wealth that means a lot of housing is sucked up as investment. This doesn't result in supply actually going up though because of local restrictions.

Chronic low interest rates might also have helped. When bonds have a shit return then piling into real estate gets more appealing, generating a positive feedback loop where real estate keeps outpacing bond returns, drawing more investment in, which makes returns higher.

Another good solution is to tax real estate returns, starting at the fourth, third, or even second home, at the income rate (so 30+% for the wealthy, who are most investors) and putting that money into a home building fund. The more real estate becomes an investment, the more housing is funded.

>>53314110
>|essentially| no one is saying illegal immigration is good
>B-B-BUT LOOK AT THIS BEANSMITH CALLED RODRIGUEZ SANCHEZ FROM SOME TIER 5 SCHOOL WHO SAID THAT ILLEGALS ARE NET CONTRIBUTORS TO THE ECONOMY
thanks for that valuable contribution, retard. now lets look at the real world. find me even a single democrat or left-wing politician in europe who is in favor of just "opening the borders and letting everyone in". not even AOC is that retarded, no one thinks like this, no one wants that. even this beaner, if given the choice, would obviously want all immigrants to be documented. you mouthbreathers will unironically equate "let's not waste resources kicking out people who came here illegally years ago" with "PLEASE BRING IN ALL THE ILLEGALS PLEASEEEE DROWN ME IN YOUR MEXICAN CUM" because you fall for every piece of conservatoid propaganda in the world.
In Summary:
>no one wants undocumented people to remain undocumented
>no one wants random uncontrolled amounts of illegals crossing the border
>no politician is arguing for anything even remotely close to just opening the borders entirely
>if you could somehow find me some fringe retard who did, their idea would garner zero support
>just because some bean merchant (correctly) identifies that there exist positive economic aspects to illegal immigrations in certain areas doesn't mean he's even in favor of illegal immigration, or that it is good ON THE WHOLE
>in the real world this is not a point of contention anyone thinks or cares about, "open borders" is a low IQ boogeyman

>and even if all of the above was wrong (and it's literally all correct), you would STILL unequivocally be a retard for assuming this random anon is pro illegal immigration
now never reply to me again, you ugly freak

>>53314513
>WORDS, WORDS, WORDS...
didn't read any of that. cope and seethe.

>>53314063
>Legal immigration is very restrictive and selects for good people

Then why is the majority of legal immigration done through a lottery and birthright scams?

>>53307826
You had the opportunity in 2018. Now you have to wait again. No one to blame but yourself.

>>53307826
>Why hasn't the price of real estate capitulated yet?
Interest rates are still appealing to late millennials/early zoomers. Have Jerome bring them up to double-digits and we'll talk turkey.

>>53307826
This is why I stack btc and support the most "energy wasting" coin. Ideally bitcoin will make energy so goddamn expensive cuckshed hives like NYC will lose power and DC "elites" will have a few tens of millions of angry "refugees" burning down their precious real estaterinos. Build those solar panels you davos babies I'm sure it will save you lmfao.

>>53314513
>find me even a single democrat or left-wing politician in europe who is in favor of just "opening the borders and letting everyone in"
The entirety of green parties in Western Europe
Lol German one even wants to make Germany a nation of immigrant.
Even the consecutive ones are fucked, Marcon literally said before that France have no culture
Also, his example IS a real world example.
Think tanks run everything