/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>53299334
Can’t solve, Pandora’s box

>>53299348
this^. the solution is the collapse of the system. until that happens you may consider current problems a warmup for the real problems.

Kill yourself

>>53299334
clearly the answer is more technology

>>53299334
You can’t, it was inevitable. All you can really do is not participate.

Unironically turn it off. You go through with drawls but then you will be free

>>53299334
health and fitness

>>53299334
>Technology has made us more and more disconnected, anxious, neurotic, lonely, etc.
nope.
those tendencies were always there, hiding behind technology is a choice people made over a decade ago as it became more available, in the past people were just forced to interact with one another.
was it better for society as a whole? probably, peer pressure kept some sort of order but the order that was created only really benefited those who were already predisposed to succeed within a more actively social environment but at least it kept the spergs from ever gaining enough confidence to interact with the world believing the mattered.
here in the uk we have had self service checkouts for many years now and every company that has installed them has found that the vast majority of shoppers prefer them over interacting with some wagie. the theory that these companies are doing it just to save on manpower is laughable when you look at how pathetic the wagie salary is, if they thought theyd make more money having some monkey there touching all of your shit and repeating the same banal conversations every visit then theyd have lots of them there for you to choose from.

>>53299334
Go touch grass. Unironically

>>53299334
These anons are right
>>53299432
>>53299437
>>53299454
There is no system wide solution for this problem that fixes the issue for everyone. You can fix it for yourself though by not participating in current year Twitter culture and finding others who do the same

Take a week off from screens. That includes porn.

The first 3 days are really hard. But after you break through, you start feeling much happier and have much more energy.

>>53300370
What activities do you replace it with?

>>53299334
Disconnect from technology and receive Christ.

>>53299334
Stop using technology for social interaction, move out of the western world(or at least to the rural countryside), get a job that is physically engaging, get your own piece of land, get together with a girl that has a good realationship with her father, start your own family, finally become happy

a strong family unit, which paradoxically is being destoyed by the very thing it solves. Things will continue to decline until collapse, and we start it all over again.

>>53299334
I prefer to look on the bright side, without the internet I wouldn't have met my friends or crypto, my vinu bags are finally being listed on something and I was also able to move to the city where my friends live, technology isn't good or bad, it's uhh grey

>>53300394

Staring into other people's windows.

>>53300394
Jerking off to porno mag

>>53299334
I do not know how, but I am quite certain that we won't until we attain clarity about who and what we are. All the sciences look at some particular aspect of the world under a microscope, but they do not correlate the findings into a larger, coherent picture. Psychology ignores most of the human mind, and then business, administration, management, sociology ignore 90% of that. The field of organizational science does not even exist, despite most of our lives being ruled by organizations. In particular, decision makers refuse to acknowledge the role of humans in an organization and the effect of the characteristics of those humans on it, despite organizations being made up entirely of humans. It's like conducting medicine and thinking that it's not a health-issue if every cell in your body is infected.
We think of stress, for instance, as merely something unpleasant to deal with, but it's a mechanism that developed literally hundreds of millions of years ago (when organisms started employing the differential signaling of cortisol and testosterone to regulate metabolism in response to adverse/favorable conditions), and we do not see its effects rippling out, which do include wars. Similarly, we have several tragedies of the commons, one example being advertising, which consumes attention, which is finite. It plays on our neural mechanism to behave in a goal-directed manner, but since our attention is completely consumed, and by inference, our ability to think, we become lunatics who always chase - nothing in particular, just chasing. The industrial revolution polluted our rivers and fields, but it is also polluting our minds, which, despite being our most precious and unique resource, we profligately waste because "it's not real" (again: despite literally every invention on Earth coming out of minds) and stiff upper lip.
Because these macro-systems are invisible to us, the whole world (Fed, governments, corporations) is basically driving blind.

>>53300856
can AI do this?
to come up with a big picture understanding of humanity/earth/universe?

>>53302422
We are currently in the process of replicating our own ignorance with AI with its utility functions, which not only cannot be made safe (in the "3 laws of Robotics" sense), but where people in the field don't even seem to understand this fact.
As to whether AI can recommend a course of action... I don't know. Given that the humans which generate its training data seem to be ignorant, one would think not.

>>53300856
What you're talking about
is the merging of technology (material) and humanity (spirituality)?

Is this what's required in this exponentially technological world? A anchor, something that keeps us grounded and connected with our basic humanity. Something that helps us maintain our humanity, while technology takes over everything?

>>53300856
So technological innovation and progress inevitable
What do we need to do as humans, in order to coexist in a healthy manner with technology.

Your solution is that we need to look and understand things more holistically. I've noticed holistic type businesses have been on a surge these past 10 years.
I think more and more people are understanding what you said, that we need to approach things holistically.
The overall consciousness of humans has generally been increasing, especially considering how recent the information age started, we may only be at the beginning of the awakening stage for humans

>>53300370
This won't work if you have a porn addiction. You long for that shit. Even after two weeks it just continues to build up.

People will eventually turn away from it

>>53302462
I get where you're coming from. I don't see the world in these terms, so I can't really say anything about that because I don't understand what people mean with the word "spiritual". The way I see it, there is just one type of "essence", and a human, an AI, sentient slime, a supercomputer, etc. would all be "made" of that. You could replicate a human mind's functioning perfectly in a computer if it performed the same computations (there are people like Roger Penrose who say that this isn't true and that the brain contains certain special quantum-mechanical structures, but I'm not qualified whether that's true or not).
The problem is that an AI agent's utility function often does not discount time (so e.g. X puzzles solved 10^100^100 years in the future is just as good as X puzzles solved in the next 10 seconds), it suffers from the mesaoptimizer problem (it's where the AI itself creates a sub-AI to solve some sub-problem, but this sub-AI's optimal strategy is to please its parent AI, and not to fulfill the parent AI's goal, so the AI creates "children" that lie to it), and that the optimal strategy when you're given a utility function is not to fulfill it with the "best" solution, but to fulfill with the solution that appears best to the utility function - the difference between giving you an apple and giving you a photorealistic image of an apple. As deception is generally cheaper than a real result, it'll generally deceive you.

>>53302705
This isn't the human concept of deception, i.e. lying and rubbing your hands evilly, but it is the mathematical quintessence of deception. What it really is is to pursue minimal effort to satisfy a goal, e.g. lying to a friend that you took out the trash instead of taking out the trash. This is also the description of gradient descent with constraints, which AI does.
We, at least some of the time, are not like that, likely due to some neuronal mechanism. Maybe evolution optimized an iterated-prisoner's-dilemma calculator that's useful if you don't steal your friend's money that he gave you to buy eggs, because you'll have to meet the next day; maybe it optimized it directly, i.e. a general feeling of sympathy you have for others that approximates what an iterated-prisoner's-dilemma calculator would calculate, maybe it's something to do with spirituality in the mystic sense. But whatever the reason, we sometimes maximize the effort we do for others instead of minimizing it which produces solutions that are superior to what other agents would have been able to specify. To name a concrete example: when our friend asks us for 10 eggs, we bring 20 because eggs have become expensive as fuck and he's short on money. It's probably optimal in the long term to do a mix of these, but that's just my guess.

>>53299334
get rich, then you will be free to disconnect and go connect to people instead
the problem isn't technology, it's the devaluation of money which made this situation

the only reason you act like this is because you know you have to go to work tomorrow morning, because you're poor

>>53302548
>The overall consciousness of humans has generally been increasing, especially considering how recent the information age started, we may only be at the beginning of the awakening stage for humans
I think our main problem is that people have been so deranged by technology that atomizes them. Many of the hypostatic functions that relied on a certain environment, which we had 20K years ago, and which regulate sex, compassion, stress, etc. have fallen into a nearly degenerate state. Almost everywhere you go, you see people believing insane theories or being constantly angry, and not even knowing why.
It'll probably adjust over time as the species collectively processes this trauma, but the problem is that we have developed ways to kill ourselves, like nuclear weapons, in the meantime.

>>53299450
correct, technology revealed what was already pervasive and it gets blamed for it
>>53302785
>Almost everywhere you go, you see people believing insane theories or being constantly angry
you're describing the entirety of human history where 99% of the population has believed (through force) in insane superstitions that have no basis in reality and murdered each other on a scale incomprehensible to modern people with animal brutality that would make you shit yourself

>>53302870
Those were culturally acquired beliefs acquired in childhood, though. Nowadays, everyone believes something different like flat Earth, telepathic dolphins, annunaki, lizard aliens. And those beliefs change often too.

>>53302785
>I think our main problem is that people have been so deranged by technology that atomizes them.
> Almost everywhere you go, you see people believing insane theories or being constantly angry, and not even knowing why.

This is truly the main issue I see, which goes back to the original post. It's the consequences of technology (less exercise, less human connection, burnout of receptors due to constant stimulation from technology and food.

I'm hoping what we are going through is only a temporary, initial phase, because we are the first generation of humans to experience such a rapid integration of technology within our lives. Thus, I'm hoping this state of derangement is simply because we are guinea pigs (the first wave) of people to go through this. I hope that our children will learn from our failures and mistakes, and live better, more integrated lives alongside technology.

>>53302893
>Those were culturally acquired beliefs acquired in childhood
that just makes it more horrifying, millions of people raised in a dystopian reality shaped entirely by their rulers. people meme about le elites controlling everything but they're just describing history. that the demented human tendency to believe anything now has the liberty to believe any number of insane theories instead of just one authoritarian agenda is testament to progress

>>53302944
>that the demented human tendency to believe anything now has the liberty to believe any number of insane theories instead of just one authoritarian agenda is testament to progress
I agree, but if you've never had something, you tend to take it to excess when you can get it, see the French revolution resulted in Robespierre, Cult of Reason, and the Reign of Terror. Hopeing for the best is the best we can do, I guess.

There will always be an underclass of the useless, the inept, the dregs of society. Technology just makes them more visible.
Either fight back or get out of the way.

>>53303158
You fucking retard you and everyone else will be made a slave to Artificial intelligence. We replaced God with technocracy and now we will pay with our souls

>>53303271
>replaced God
human hubris imposed by force != God

Probably a good start is less time on your phone and more time pursuing meaningful hobbies like lifting, meditating, reading, making art or something along those lines that stimulates creativity/skill improvement.

human beings are trash almost 99 percent of them doggy dog world technology makes them all wanna be a populary contesto im going ted bundy

>>53300856
>>53302445
>>53302705
>>53302716
Some of the most thought provoking posts I’ve read on /biz/ in recent memory. Appreciate your perspective Anon

>>53303694
Thanks man.

>>53302751
>the only reason you act like this is because you know you have to go to work tomorrow morning
so the same as it has always been in all of human history then

Become a wagie. I say it unironically, own it. Normies arent dumb because of low IQ (pro-tip: they have an average IQ), it is the anxiety that filters them. Tech jobs are naturally making you anxious, your body and mind had not been designed for this. Acknowledge your inner paranoia. Acknowledge your asocial ways. Meditate daily, go to 4chan to vent, once you make it try to keep your psychological damage as close to the baseline as possible. By being able to perform actions which are anxiety inducing, you become immune to the ways of sociopaths/jews.

new communities, built on off grid power, using solid state batteries that will last 1mm charges. Automated chicken feeders, all seasons greenhouses. It will be very easy to live in abundance. 3d printing and AI will make this even easier to do.

>>53299334
i post link fud, the long winded explanations for why it's actually a good investment make me laugh

>>53300856

Organizational psychology exists. What you're describing is the misalignment of incentives between 'living a good life' and 'accumulating capital' in the capitalist system the US, for example, has. Organizational psychology and management science don't focus on human wellbeing anymore than it promotes greater productivity because there is no capital incentive to do so. At what point will Americans realize a capitalist system - and increasingly a capitalist worldview internationally: the penultimate goal to just acquire more and more money - is not sustainable as a species. And for what? So idiots can fawn over the rich? What a joke.

>>53299334
Legalize psychedelics.
>Turn on.
>Tune in.
>Drop out.
Our culture was already materialistic and neurotic. Technology just fomented that.
Society is all about individualism but not individual expression.

>>53302944
>people meme about le elites controlling everything but they're just describing history. that the demented human tendency to believe anything now has the liberty to believe any number of insane theories instead of just one authoritarian agenda is testament to progress
it’s the same mental illness anon. your irrational hatred of religion is blinding you to the horrors of the modern world.

>>53304001
Should happen in the next 5-10 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACARRNzhBG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9CYi66dRn8

>>53304079
Just be patient then.
Meanwhile, enjoy the insanity lol.

>>53303924
I was wrong about it not existing, then. Does it take into account the game theory between organizations?
>the penultimate goal to just acquire more and more money - is not sustainable as a species.
It's not, but you have to take into account that it does perform a useful function, namely making capital liquid and allocating it efficiently (though only up to the utility function of profit maximization, which is not the same as productivity of wellbeing optimization, as you pointed out). Our world could not have been built without technologies like banking and exchanges/debt markets. The high interest rates of ~30% 800 years ago might be partially due to this: at that low level of productivity and banking, everyone was hoarding money and investing it into local projects if at all, thus capital to lend out was scarce. As the supply of capital increased, interest rates went down. There is a problem that, below a certain level, all sorts of pointless shit gets funded and the money just sloshes around in circles, searching in vain for anything real to be spent on, thus you get all these BSC scams and Internet companies of the 90s.

>>53303694
>>53303705
The AI is going to be racist as shit when it becomes self aware. I feel sorry for blacks and joos

>>53299334
There are plenty of people who have read Heidegger (Question Concerning Technology) or Kaczynski (Anti-Tech Revolution) and understand to what extent technology can be controlled, but have no institutional power. There's no solution besides taking power and very brutally re-asserting human control over technology and the destruction of technology that doesn't serve us. A lot of technological problems are a Pandora's box as >>53299348 says, we may get to a point in the future where random african warlords can nuke eachother over petty tribal conflicts and destroy the planet.

>>53304096
Feeling optimistic that in 10-20 years, we will undergo some sort of a renaissance. It already looks like it's started.
An abundance in material goods and services due to AI and robotics
A societal level-up in consciousness mainly due to the popularization of psychedelics and the information age

>>53299334
It cannot be solved
Enjoy your future

>>53304103

As a practical matter, I agree with your assertion that these machinations serve an important, if not often useful, purpose since humans do require complex systems to organize themselves as well as formalize accountability for complex series of actions, but my assertion is the form in which it has taken at this point continue to be needlessly exploitative and continues to lack proper calming measures that limit the accumulation of wealth by certain actors which manipulate the 'natural order' of the system. Interesting chart as I see your point that the exploitation (represented in this case by interest rates) seems to be decreasing over time, and I would agree generally I do believe in a trend that the world becomes less exploitative and barbaric over time, but certainly in the face of constant opposition... Maybe my point is we're still not moving fast enough. It appears we have interest rates at the high end in recent history that are still rivaling those in the 1600-1700s

>>53299334
There’s a way of not feeling these “bitch emotions” but I wont tell you faggots