/biz/ - Business & Finance

To be clear, I know it will never be done.

I’m asking if it CAN be done, and what the ramifications would be.

>>53064199
Both your useless green paper and your worthless shiny rocks will be abolished. Where we are heading no useless things will remain and parasites will be euthanized (financiers)

>>53064241
The only plausible scenario is the US dollar tanking so terribly that the central banks try to repeg it to gold to create a floor and stop the decline. Based on the 8 tons at fort knox (allegedly) this puts gold somewhere between 20k-40k an ounce depending on what % they want to back the existing dollars out there.

Doubtful they will ever do it though because other countries have more gold than the US at this point.

But yes to answer your question it would be very easy to back the dollars with gold again. You just revalue the price of an ounce of gold to what you need to back the currency (10%-40% gold backing) and then you create a way for people to turn in their dollars for gold. Boom it's done.

>>53064347
Do you think returning to the gold standard would be good for the US dollar? Instead of being backed by nothing? Would it help the country?

>>53064199
What's going to happen is that BRICS + China/Russia security block (around 50 countries) will peg oil to gold in order conduct oil trade in their own currencies. This will in turn set the precedent for Russian Ruble and Chinese Yuan to become gold backed. EU will likely follow suite after it collapses, backing their CBDC with gold. US will devolve into nigger riots and population will drop below 100 million.

>>53064418
Good for the US dollar yes, bad for the US. Once we can't freely print dollars anymore the free ride is over. We will have to start producing stuff domestically again and reduce our enormous trade deficit.

>>53064450
>We will have to start producing stuff domestically again and reduce our enormous trade deficit.
I’m failing to see the problem. These both sound fine to me. We shouldn’t be producing so much in countries that commit human rights atrocities, and reducing debt sounds good.

>>53064518
There are some positives like domestic manufacturing coming back which means a revival of the middle class and decent paying jobs.

However you fail to understand how many cheap goods we get from other countries. They pollute their air and wage slave their people to death and we just print money and get the goods. The deficit is around a trillion a year currently. All of that would come to an end.

If you think the CPI is high now and the cost of the things you like to buy going up is painful imagine what it will be like in that environment.

The boomers in America got to enjoy a golden era of declining interest rates, ever increasing national debt (benefits they vote themselves and dont pay for), rising asset prices making them all rich.

The millenials and gen z are going to inherit a world of shit.

>>53064199
Trigger a permanent deflationary spiral and put us monetary policy in the hands of international mining cartels instead of American private banks.

Gold backed currency isn't feasible in a modern globalised economy. Its not a coincidence it became irrelevant around the same time information technology like SWIFT messaging came into being. Its not like the elites hate gold, it was just made obsolete by advances in technology and was less competitive than FIAT.

>>53064518
Less debt= less capitalism
All investment is debt with some number of extra steps.

>>53064620
Make a cryptocurrency contractually tied to physical gold. Technology issue solved

>>53064648
>contractually tied to physical gold
Its still difficult to actually verify physical quantities of gold with some nations like China being known to lie about how much gold they have. It would also be difficult to get most nations to accept a gold standard for trade as most nations don't have a lot of gold and don't want to spend money buying gold. It might get brought in as an option for international trade alongside other choices like SDRs but I doubt it will see much use.

>>53064620
This is such a low iq take and shows you know nothing about the history of the gold backing.

Gold backing worked perfectly, in fact it worked too well. Politicians wanted to keep printing money and were tired of the gold backing keeping them responsible. They devalued the dollar against gold multiple times before taking us off a gold standard "temporarily" because other countries were asking for their gold back knowing we we didnt have enough to hold the peg.

After we went off the gold standard we had a decade of the worst inflation in the history of the US, the dollar lost over 50% of its value and gold went 20x.

>>53064199
USD would shit the bed. All fiat would shit the bed.

>>53064263
>parasites will be euthanized (financiers)
financier here, good luck I'm behind 7 gated communities

>>53064822
The irony of thinking a gated community is a safe space. My dude gated communities will literally be the first target once shit hits the fan. It is like the most convenient and obvious target. All the parasites hoarded into one space

>>53064199
>Is it even possible
Nope. Debt is encoded to the system in such a way that the current rate of growth, wealth and innovation would completely stop. Modern money is created trough debt and destroyed when that debt goes delinquent. Therefore there is a theoretically infinite supply of money, as long as everyone is lending and paying. All that money makes the machine go vroom. With a finite supply of money, the machine would go really, really slow, and not that far away.

>>53064923
A finite supply of money like gold, I mean. As there is only two olympic swimming pools worth of gold in the world.

>>53064883
>once shit hits the fan
the goyim will never rise up. they will be gelded and placed in chastity cages

>>53064785
sounds like in practice the gold standard does fucking nothing because it's just a rock that will be abandoned whenever convenient

>>53064998
How are parasites like you this confident i dont understand. Do you honestly believe we will not find you and euthanize you? How much more do you think you can push people before theve had enough? And even if we dont revolt, your parasitic Hellworld has a built in expiration date because it is inherently unstable and unsustainable. So even if you dont die by our hand you will die by the hand of God via a destroyed biosphere. Either way you and ESPECIALLY your offspring perish. I honestly dont understand what the parasites' endgame is. Like ok youve enslaved everything. You will consume everything. Burn everything . To what end? What are your goals i dont understand. To make offspring? But that makes no sense since you leave no biosphere for children to grow. Your offspring are already dead

>>53065108
>Do you honestly believe we will not find you and euthanize you?
I'm sure that will happen in 2 more weeks but smart money is betting "you wont do shit"

>>53064199
inflation would go down, value of the dollar would go up, we would need a Russia sanction scenario to get on it.

oh the PMG chads would become millionaires over night.

>>53065047
With that logic nothing matters because nothing is immutable. Best we can do is try to tie the hands of government and keep them tied as long as possible.

If you think Bitcoin is the solution then LOL. You think government wont pressure miners to blacklist, steal or mint extra coins to give to them in a time of crisis?

>b b but bitcoin cant be changed, UASF!!

Bitcoin is just code, code that is enforced by 51% of the mining power. Those miners are huge operations that will bow down to government. The government will release some propaganda about how Ukraine, or poor people or niggers need some more gibs and how the miners should mint an extra million BTC to the US Treasury address.

>>53064263
Just two more weeks bro.
Joking aside, the future is CBDC, so if you’re the Yuri Orlov type there’s always an alternative, traceless currency for use in the bl@ck market

>>53064199
it would be amazing for the economy because it would be much more difficult to steal wealth from the average man. it would destroy the current financial system however.

>>53067257

>>53064450
The fake economy has to end though, there's more to existence than cheap goods.

>>53064620
>Its not like the elites hate gold
Yes they do, the elites are all about centralized power otherwise they're not elite.

>>53064199
the technical ramifications are low, it would be dead simple to tie the dollar back to a gold supply, and shift ownership of the supply around digitally
the policy implications would instantly bankrupt the welfare state, unless gold was revalued absurdly higher, maybe 100x
where i do think a gold standard will happen is for international settlements and sovereign holdings, the latter of which has already started after russia lost hundreds of billions because other countries just decided they no longer owned the assets

>>53064199

It wouldn't change anything.

Commercial banks would still indefinitely expand credit (like they've done forever). Eventually there would be a bunch of bank runs (which always happens). Then the government would step in (as usual), create a central bank (like always), and we would repeat 1933 once again, eventually leading up to and repeating 1971, again.

>"BUT GOLD PUTS CONSTRAINTS ON THE BANKS!!! REEEEE!!!"
It doesn't matter how something would work in the theoretical fantasy world of Austrian Economics. The reality is, banks will continue to do whatever they want and governments will do everything they can to protect them.

It would bring balance & harmony

>>53064199
how do you expect economy to grow without increasing the supply of money?
how can new field like tech and internet get investment when all the liquidity is confined in boomer chuds savings? no new money must be created to invest in these fields which in turn create unimaginable returns both in terms of money and advancement of civilisation
do you know that the higher the US deficit means the higher the national debt means more money in circulation which means more liquidity means more prosperity?
there's no economy, there's only monetary policy, because no one would work without money there's no economy without money, the economy is reflection of monetary policy
recession is they sucking liquidity from circulation, like recessed water line

>>53068720
how did the industrial revolution happen on the gold standard?

>>53064518
The problem is 10-20 years of severe pain and the populace will vote out anyone who proposes it. This is made even worse by the increasing political divide in the west

>>53068720
>how do you expect economy to grow without increasing the supply of money?
You move to another commodity. There are more metals than silver and gold.

What if there was state-crypto backed by a real economy (so real money and not 'internet money' that included a rebasement feature that Ampleforth pioneered? Would there still be a need for money printing or would the Ampleforth-style inflation and deflation make the old style money printing obsolete?

>>53064199
No

>>53064241
>it will never be done
it's going to happen in the next 10-15 years lol

>>53069545
They may try, but the gold standard has too many shortcomings in today's world. It failed for a reason. At some point we will have a currency reset when eventually every fiat system implodes and they will go back to another fiat system.

Now that we have Bitcoin, gold will lose it's "store of value" perception because Bitcoin has technological advantages over gold. We are at tumultuous time in history and trusted institutions are becoming more untrustworthy. Gold requires a great degree of trust. Bitcoin is a tool that can weather the storms that are coming. It will prove itself as things fall apart.

>>53069642
it didnt fail, there were seriously powerful interests that wanted to centralize credit in order to hijack it.
please believe me, my grandfather was worth a lot of money because his family kept their eye on the ball with regards to federal reserve, and each of them fucking hated 1913 with a passion, despite our wealth.
The game is rigged, and if you guys keep pushing this, it will make us richer and richer until there is intense political opporutnity in persecuting the wealthy, and then you will prosecute the destruction of capitalism and freedom even more.

>>53069682
I have nothing against gold but in order for a gold standard to work, each institution involved would need to have a high degree of integrity. If you've noticed, integrity/trust between nations is eroding. In 1971, the US ended the gold standard because they were called out by other countries for printing more money than gold. This system wouldn't work right now, when our leaders are nothing but untrustworthy liars.

>>53064199
gold is worthless

>>53065448
>oh the PMG chads would become millionaires over night.

You’re right but what everyone is failing to mention is that the price of goods would skyrocket in a way the US has never seen before. Milk $30/gal. Bread $15/ loaf. Gas $80/ gal. The PMG guys (myself included) would be millionaires in a failed country where looters rob and steal anything they can. We’re talking mad max levels of lawlessness.

See >>53064441

The bad parts of every city would become roving mobs of zombies with no food and no way to survive. Even walking in these areas would be a death sentence. Cities will be paying $80/gal gas so good luck having anyone there to protect you. That gas is going to be saved for driving politicians around.

>>53064441
everything here is essentially a highly probable roadmap right up until the part where the USA just rolls over and dies suddenly.
That's not exactly how this thing plays out. We resume the part of the movie where the world is asking the USA to redeem USD for gold in 1971, but now the USA has created a retarded economy and replaced meritocracy/free markets with whatever form of cancer you want to call the current economic system (socialism?). The US will peg to gold, the question is what happens in the USA. nobody knows

>>53064518
>I’m failing to see the problem
Suburbanite scum tend to not understand where everything they use and consumes comes from.
>>53064518
>commit human rights atrocities,
So the USA?

>>53069781
wtf are you talking about we don't need systems you can literally use coins.
when you do want a complicated system there are businesses called banks, if you pick the wrong bank and they go under you lose your deposit etc.
if you don't think we get a blockchain hybrid electronic gold money payment system in both govt and private sector going forward you're crazy.
people need to knock it off with this universal world order, all of us under one US govt roof bullshit.
we're free human beings until we stop acting like it. Use gold, have skills, enjoy life. stay informed also.

>>53064347
>depending on what % they want to back the existing dollars out there.
>>53064450
>Good for the US dollar yes, bad for the US. Once we can't freely print dollars anymore the free ride is over. We will have to start producing stuff domestically again and reduce our enormous trade deficit
>>53064518

this is why that space force dude is talking to the white house about bitcoin and national security. how has normal society and even /biz/ not figured this out? bitcoin will back a large portion of it. maybe some gold too, but as you all are slowly figuring out, to back it all with gold would send gold insanely high percentage wise. it'll be distributed across provably scarce assets that subsidize energy sector and legacy hard money (gold, silver)

>>53064441
I have heard rumours of a silver backed USD, similar to what China had prior to the opium wars. There is less silver available due to industry usage and it's abundance is about 8:1 silver:gold and it's mostly mined in resource recovery reclamation environmental protection processes. The market cap is much tighter for silver.

>>53068985
>state-crypto backed by a real economy
That's not much different than the fiat we have now. Monero is already like this, minus the state. The major difference is that with crypto printing as much as you want is supposed to be impossible but if it was under government control it might as well be possible.
Inflation is necessary when there is a fiscal deficit and too much spending compared to tax income. In theory it's avoidable by just taxing more but inflation makes it easier to hide and blame someone else.
Dunno about the rebasement stuff.

Does anyone have anything about what newspapers said about going off the gold standard in 1971?

Want to see what damage control they were running

>>53064648
Lol. Technology and adoption needs to advance for that. In the meantime, the best we can do is stick to cryptocurrencies that are less volatile. Like stablecoins. Been staking mine on SpoolFi for months during the bear.

>>53064199
Imagine if men were as cowardly as you throughout history.
>Is it even possible to circumnavigate the entire world in wooden ships with no known maps or electricity?

In comparison, you sound like an absolute pussy.

>>53064634
Debt isn’t capital. In a capitalist society, savings are used for investment. In a Jewish utopia, savings don’t exist, and all men become debtslaves to them through the use of their fake reserve notes that are backed by no savings.

Go back to the gold standard to go back to Capitalism, period.

>>53072570
>You have questions about feasibility of systems and possible liquidity crisis?
>You must be a pussy, how dare you think about theoretical implementation of economic policy?
Calm down, moron.

>>53069797
It all returns to nothing, it all comes
tumbling down, tumbling down,
tumbling down,

>>53073135
No anon. Not evangelion.

>>53073202

itt delusional cope
muh gold lmao

>>53072051
This is the right attitude towards the media.

>>53072601
this is correct and anon is right that any system which purports to be capitalist but uses funny money is not capitalist.

>>53064241
So there's a fairly simple way to do this.
Create a digital currency backed by gold. Have the central repository be in a mountain in Switzerland or something and watch people gradually move to that instead of fiat.

>>53073662
Simple gold won't make it because ((they)) will manipulate the market
>>53064199
Yeah, stop taking loans from the US and stop buying their products or buy straight from the farm
Even american gold is corrupted cause the prize barely changes

>>53068720
>slop brands

>>53073916

>>53073916
>>53074207

Wrong question: you should ask if we're bringing back a SILVER standard

>>53073904
The idea is you say "These digital coins are redeemable in gold" but just have some very specific circumstance for the redemption like "only after the date 1/1/2999" or something to that effect. Keep reserves as close to 100% as possible.

>>53065149
you will never get out of this planet

>>53073220
The reason is evangelion makes me cry and stirs all the emotions. I just want no emotions now.

>>53070518
This gets my dick hard

The problem with the gold standard was WW1 basically destroyed the global economy and any attempts to fix it were ruined because every single nation had their own needs and agendas to pursue that their domestic gold policies were not meshing together as it used to. Also, America had a very harsh depression in the early 20s caused by getting back on the gold standard after WW1 at a price point that was faaaar too low. Eventually they had to forcefully revalue gold higher to add inflationary pressure to the economy.
I believe 100% that a gold standard of some sort will be used to setting international trade. One hundred years ago it was very important to have a net-zero balance of trade, as having a surplus would essentially siphon gold from your country and force your banking system to contract. The dollar system allowed the U.S. to essentially plunder the world for free. That little arrangement is 100% coming to an end.

>>53075172
never seen it, I just know the song.

>>53064923
Debt going delinqent does not destroy our modern currency. Paying off debt does that. If the debt doesn't get paid off, the currency just stays in circulation.
More importantly, you can still have debt, and theoretically infinite credit creation, which can still (and usually does) effectively create new currency in circulation via fractional reserve banking) while still operating on a sound money system. The only real difference between that and what we have today is that creditors can have at least a reasonable expectation to get paid back with something that has intrinsic, undilutable value, which does impose a soft limit on the amount of currency that can be created through credit creation.
What we have now is a situation where the biggest debtors basically told all their creditors "fuck off, I'm not paying you back" permanently, when Nixon "temporarily" closed the gold window in 1971. For several geopolitical reasons, all the creditors are still just playing along and pretending the debt they own is still worth something, but that charade obviously can't last forever.
So, to answer OP's question, I think there is no doubt that we could go back to a gold standard. That is what most countries, and the most prosperous countries have used, all around the world, through all of human history, excepting only the last 50 years. What is not so certain is how long the entirely debt-based system can survive.

>>53064347
you can turn your dollars into gold right now
no one is stopping you
you are free to do it

so I fail to see what a 'return to gold standard' would entail or how it would be different from the world we are in now

>>53075309
>One hundred years ago it was very important to have a net-zero balance of trade, as having a surplus would essentially siphon gold from your country and force your banking system to contract. The dollar system allowed the U.S. to essentially plunder the world for free. That little arrangement is 100% coming to an end.

You are right that net-zero balance of trade is the most preferred system. But you have it backwards as to the system we have now. The biggest economy runs a structural trade deficit and the next three biggest economies run a structural trade surplus. So the whole world economy as it stands is totally dependent on the US consumer of last resort and the Fed as a lender of last resort. The system was set up as a way to help underdeveloped countries develop faster and try to get them somewhere close to the US level and then the idea was that they would balance out. Japan, Germany and China have not balanced. It is obvious that patience is running thin in the US and they are soon no longer willing to run deficits because the costs are too great and the benefits are too little. The most important macro event you have to watch out for is when US starts restricting foreign capital inflows. Tax on foreign investment or a myriad of other legal possibilities. After that Germany and Japan will be able to cut some sort of deal and China will be left out.

What good is a factory when you have no one to sell the production to?

>see this thread
>someone named Spiro joins a telegram group I'm in
>Nixons vp was Spiro Agnew
What is the universe trying to tell me ?

>>53076058
>you can turn your dollars into gold right now
>so I fail to see what a 'return to gold standard' would entail or how it would be different from the world we are in now

I think it's about time I left this board. You guys are just beyond retarded.

>>53076388
>What good is a factory when you have no one to sell the production to?
You sell your production to yourselves and you do this by allowing your currency to appreciate in purchasing power.
The most important thing for any economy is PRODUCTIVE work. That is what allows for people to consume.

>>53073662
Kinesis Money already does this

>>53067966
Hes right in most of what he's is saying. BTC take is shit though US goverment has enough BTC thanks to seizes made over the years

>>53067758
>it would be amazing for the economy
>it would destroy the current system

Pick one. You would likely be dead from experiencing the 2nd one before you got to experience the 1st one.

>>53076872
Allowing currency to appreciate in purchasing power requires Germany, Japan and China to get rid of their trade surplus. That would mean a radically different economic model. And you need to expand the household consumption share of the GDP. That is hard but doable in Germany and Japan. In China getting household consumption from 40% of GDP to at least 60% can happen either

a) through redistribution which would mean someone else loses out and that means major political change and unrest and that is not going to happen
b) through a sharp fall in GDP but I'm scared to calculate the actual numbers

>>53076388
>The biggest economy runs a structural trade deficit and the next three biggest economies run a structural trade surplus.

And when said biggest economy does it long enough they are no longer the biggest economy. Cantillon effect.

This is one of the things that brought the Roman Empire low you can read 2nd and 3rd century Roman complain abiut the wealthy sending off their wealth to the east for luxuries.

>>53078122
Perhaps. But if you like to think in historical parallels I would like to to remind you that Rome celebrated 1000 ab urbe condita. So by that analogy US has 750 more years to go.

>>53072051
yeah that's an interesting question. I'm sure the finance guys were going crazy with it, I bet business newspapers had some interesting articles on it. Dunno who was around then though.