/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>52851674
Craig stating things without proof means very little

can someone post a video explaining how and why BSV is the real bitcoin, or somewhere I can dig deep on this?

>>52852210
Its simply the original protocol. The really fun ladtof the rabbit hole is learning how truly powerful the original BTC is, that it had a scripting language deactivated by the (((devs))) in 2015, why everything beside btc was considered a shitcoin before the forks (hint, they were in comparison), etc.

>>52852242
Oops, pic rel

I'm all in BSV. Real Bitcoin will win.

>>52851674
k keep me posted

>>52852210
this quite a read but you have insights in this. it was written by BSV advocates but it's still true
https://www.mnp.ca/-/media/files/mnp/pdf/service/enterprise-risk/the-original-bitcoin-protocol-r.pdf

here seems to be a quick rundown https://bitcoinassociation.net/mnp-report-demonstrates-why-bsv-is-the-real-bitcoin/

the main points are the script language and the block sizes. Both sides have arguments so it's up to you to decide.
I would see Bitcoin as better with a bigger blocksize but there are counter arguments to this: bigger hard drives needed for nodes, chain might be spammed, transactions fees will be to low when it will be become problematic (around 2040)

>>52851674
holy fucking based

>>52851674

YES

FUCKING

YES

>>52852210
https://thatsbtcnotbitcoin.com/
Basically kikes got their fangs in btc and fucked the scaling over to protect their investments. It was never meant to be a store of value horseshit. It was meant for peer to peer, instant, cheap transactions.

>>52851674
So fucking bullish right now lol. Going to buy flashbangs with my tendies.

>>52851674
oh no no no
bitcoin core chads we got to cocky bros…

>>52852795
based fellow Twetch enjoyer

>>52851674
I've got MTV instead

Why not ban BSV as well then?

>>52852848

Why not both? 50k mtv is what $40.

STIFF

>>52852210
he needs to be spoonfed
NGMI

Soon

>>52852863
bsv is not a security/store of value.

>>52855836
Soon what?
>>52856444
Checked bsv threads always get good gets

>>52855230
18,000+ Txn/s now

>>52856624
This is the kinda deboonking I can get into lol

>DA REAL SATOSHI!!!
>UUHHHHHHH DUH REAL BITCOIN!!
You shills are hilarious.
Apparently, holding BSV bags since 2018 has turned these sad, desperate people delusional

>>52851674
The block size on this crap is way too big. You would need a data center to store the entire chain.

Fail.

>4 GB block size
>this will definitely scale well, anyone can run a node

people who shill this "project" are either low IQ or well paid

>>52857709
for got the pepe

>>52857649
>>52857709
>The current system where every user is a network node is not the intended configuration for large scale. That would be like every Usenet user runs their own NNTP server. The design supports letting users just be users. The more burden it is to run a node, the fewer nodes there will be. Those few nodes will be big server farms. The rest will be client nodes that only do transactions and don't generate.

brainlets

>>52857730
sounds super decentralized, well done
I'm sure this project will go places

>>52857761
Shut up you fat faggot. Kill yourself. Seriously just kill yourself.

>>52857709
Your node does nothing. You have no say over what the network decides to make you do.

>>52857948
calm down Craig, you're getting too riled up

trying reading this for some tips that may help you:
https://www.myaspergerschild.com/2017/05/self-soothing-techniques-for-kids-on.html

Do not buy, Craig will steal your coins.

>>52858000
Cringe

>>52857649
>The block size on this crap is way too big. You would need a data center to store the entire chain.
Thank You for agreeing with Satoshi Nakamoto.

>>52857709
>>4 GB block size
>>this will definitely scale well, anyone can run a node
Only Miners are nodes.
Welcome to Bitcoin

>>52857761
>decentralized
Show us this word in the white paper

When nothing happens you guys need to shake yourself of this delusion. It's embarrassing to watch. Please just let this be the last time. Have some dignity.

>>52855836
>.05 cents has been deposited into your BSV internet shill force account

Craig pushed an update where he can confiscate your coins. Not what satoshi intended. With this in place its no different from globohomo fedcoin.

>do a wrong think
>government files a report to the ceo of bitcoin craig wright
>have your funds confiscated for being a suspected terrorist tranaphobe racist
in thought the whole point of a blockchain was to secure the users funds. How can it be cryptographically secure if any wallet can be stolen lmao.
Bitcoin is supposed to be decentralized p2p digital cash, cash cant be rugged, once it changes hands its completely under the control of its new owner and is irreversible. If you give a scammer on the street 100$ and walk away you cant call the federal reserve and have them restore your 100$
Also bsv is not p2p, theres like 9 nodes all controlled by craig its completely centralized.
I agree btc is not real btw. Monero is probably its true successor at this point monero is literally p2p digital cash. Its shady uses is proof of this

>>52857709
Do you think everyone is running nodes now for real? Then proof it and take the money.

Based, /biz/ wankers will buy earliest at 10k$, they have been fully demolarized.

>>52857709
>4 GB block size
Oh wow a whole 4 GB???

I hav 1 TeraByte USB storage in my fucking Keychain. Bitcoin is designed to be run out of commercial data centres. 4GB blocks is NOTHING.

>>52859316
>stolen
Do you even know what this word means? If a court has determined you have legal ownership of coins, then by definition they are not being stolen.

>>52852210
wifi pineapple

>>52852210
50+ hours
https://youtu.be/zmLfZ599oAY

>>52859641
>Storm parliament
>initiate communist takeover
>set up 'fair and balanced' court
>Rule to seize the property of all 'misbehavers'
>THE COURT HAS RULED. IT IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY AND THUS WASN'T STOLEN. GET BACK IN THE MINES.
We need to push faggots like you out of helicopters.

>>52859698
>if stalin can take the paperwallet in my moms basement it's legally his
https://youtu.be/mq__Z-Z_Ofs

>>52857578
You're still alive? How much did that "residential" lot cost you?

>>52859698
Quite telling that you have to conjure some retarded fantasy, because your argument is so idiotic.

Let's try again: If a court rules that you are the legitimate owner of something, then how can it be stolen?

Or put another way; if possession in your mind is the same as ownership, then how can any coins EVER be considered stolen?

>>52859784
Unironically yes. If you can't simply memorise the seed phrase the wallet wasn't too precious to you anyway. I will need to see that movie, though, it looked very good, thanks for showing it to me.

>>52859881
imagine being this delusional even after the 20th century happened. You are advocating for autocracy by advocating for possession = ownership. The state's ability to enforce possession is effectively infinite relative to an individual

>>52859850
If your argument can't stand up against the first edge case my imagination could summon then it is useless. Possession is 3/5th's of law, as they say, but in crypto code is law. If you lose your wallet it is gone. I don't trust courts, friend. I'm from the UK, and our courts are acting very strangely recently and allowing all manner of silly cases to be brought forth. The police, too, are rather outrageous in the charges they feel are necessary. The government keeps passing laws which are antithetical to Western tradition. They already do steal from us in the form of the many, many taxes. They take money from people on the street if the person they are accosting cannot explain why he is carrying it. In the Netherlands they are forcing farmers to sell their land to the state for comparatively worthless fiat in the name of their new state religion. There have been cases in the West of the state stealing a man's children because he will not go along with globohomo.
A crypto wallet is nothing to all that. They will steal it from you for the slightest infraction and blame you for having the temerity of not staying within the prescribed system in the first place.
If you have a wallet and the seed only exists in your head they cannot steal it, unless of course there is a backdoor. Was I mistaken in attacking you? You were defending this alleged backdoor, yes? If not I am sorry, I have clearly grasped the wrong end of the stick. Even still you are wrong. A court doesn't determine what is my property any more than it determines the length of a day or the colour of the sky. These things are self-evident. They may use their tyranny to steal my things and call it justice just as they may use their tyranny to make people believe that the sky is yellow and a day 34 hours long but it doesn't make it true.

>>52859924
You've misconstrued my position. Please read this post >>52859971 and recalibrate your response.
I do not think possession = ownership theoretically, only pragmatically, which is why you must burn your seed phrase having remembered it first. This isn't a justification for theft, it is a defense against it.

>>52859881
So you like the law of the jungle? Are you a caveman or a neander?

>>52859924
I do see now you said 'legally' his and I agreed. My mistake. I can see how that might look. The sad thing is though that the state makes the laws. Might does in fact make right. So legally, perhaps, yes. Whether that is ethically sound or not is a different matter.

>>52859971
>If you have a wallet and the seed only exists in your head they cannot steal it
they executed you or put you in the gulag if you buried your gold and refused to tell them where it was.

your argument is private property and by extension any practically meaningful definition of ownership isn't derivative of law which is as delusional as krakow ghetto inhabitant shelving a troy ounce while getting pushed onto to 9.30 to Auschwitz thinking he's secured his property from the state

>>52860018
I see you're point. What are we to do then? As you say the state has the ability to enforce possession far more effectively than any individual, and where the law is concerned with the courts being essentially a mere extension of the state authority in many countries what matter is it that there is laws to describe who owns what and why?
This all leads to the conclusion that property rights are temporary privileges and if you have them you are lucky and if not then you are fucked.

>>52851674
glow more

>>52859316

>Bitcoin is about creating a currency government can't touch!

Was only ever projection. Satoshi IS trying to decentralise power\money\access to finances and make it easier for the little man, and BSV can do that.

Governments exists and have massive power, is this a good thing? I don't think so, but they exist and WILL NOT TOLERATE people being able to own and transfer assets like this without the government being able to intervene and enforce laws. Don't you know that in most western countries at this point you can't even withdraw $300 without your bank account being flagged, or that government can literally seize even small assets and sell them against your will?

Bitcoin was never about taking this on directly or somehow ignoring the reality of government. Craig knows that governments CAN and WILL simply claim the right to confiscate funds or even ban and entire currency, things they can do pretty simply with a simple passage of legislation.

He was creating a system that would decentralise economic power, making it easier for people to compete against giant congolomerates, this later on might have really positive consequences in terms of limiting the size of government, but he was NOT creating something to exist in spite of government in the false hope that government wouldn't clamp down.

Government can ban ANYTHING THEY WANT, in many places they have recently mandated staying at home and wearing masks when outside.

>>52860079
Could make the argument if society runs on a single public immutable ledger mediated by competition vs multiple ledgers mediated by arbitration the power to create despotism will be obsoleted
but I don't know if I believe that it may just be pic related cycling forever until we get global autocracy which would allow a global revolution after which there would be no one to indebt to someone else

>all this text from brainlets itt
>no mention of velocity

>>52860190
There you got your velocity. Remember, bsv is the only system that scales, act accordingly.

>>52860302
bsv has 10 nodes dude it's literally a scam

>>52859971
You don't believe in private property rights then. Like your argument legit boils down to this

"Whatever I can take, by force, by fraud, by deception or by violence is MINE"

Which means, you are commie. Not surprised though, most BTC adherents are communists.

>>52860316
>Which means, you are commie. Not surprised though, most BTC adherents are communists.

t. supporter of civil forfeiture and bypassing all the us constitution ammendments just like Biden did when he created civil forfeiture

>nooo you can't legally update your open source software!
>because I say so!

what a dumb nigger

>>52860314
2-3 nodes control btc. Whats your point? And >>52859415

>>52860314
It's literally Bitcoin as Satoshi designed it to be. There is no scam. The scam is the BTC cripplecoin ponzi.

>>52860331
btc has 15k nodes and multiple mining pools that have switched massively in hashpower over the years.

bsv has 20 nodes and 3 mining pools, the point is that it's a glow op designed to fail from a coding standard, all they have to do is upload cp to the bsv chain and take those 20 nodes down.

>>52860340
>>52859415
Proof it then.

>>52860322
Enforcing property rights in a court of law is the literal basis of capitalism and civil society lmao

So I was right that you do not believe in private property rights. The commies reveal themselves.

>>52860340
3 nodes control the BTC network.

Sorry.

>>52860336
Satoshi did not expect it would grow so fast and asics would appear so fast, the 1 computer 1 vote argument died fast as fuck, also he put the 1mb block due to how easy it would have been to spam this into growing so big only a few could run a chain.

>>52860349
https://bitnodes.io/

https://nownodes.io/nodes/bitcoin-sv-bsv

https://coin.dance/

>>52860354
>Enforcing property rights in a court of law is the literal basis of capitalism and civil society lmao

4th ammendment Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and sets out requirements for search warrants based on probable cause

Civil forfeiture and administrative law bypasses this by sueing the cash (they literally abolished this ammendment with administrative law).

5th ammendment Sets out rules for indictment by grand jury and eminent domain, protects the right to due process, and prohibits self-incrimination and double jeopardy

Also abolished if paypal seizes your money you have no right to defense

6th ammendment Protects the right to a speedy public trial by jury, to notification of criminal accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel

also abolished by administrative law

7th ammendment Provides for the right to a jury trial in civil lawsuits

also abolished in civil forfeiture or administrative law cases, they can stole your money on a route and you have no right to a legal defense, meanwhile in 1971 you needed two cash bills to buy a house in cash with the 10k usd bill


8th ammendment Prohibits excessive fines and excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment

also abolished most civil forfeiture cases cost more to pay a lawyer than to have the good seized stolen by the goverment

once again GLOW MORE

>>52859415
why would I waste my time when this is trivial to show yet he will never accept it.
>>52859316
>Craig pushed an update where he can confiscate your coins.
wow this shit was worse than I thought.

>>52860380
>the 1 computer 1 vote argument died fast as fuck
only because bitcoin refuses to return back to cpu based consensus. satoshi would be disappointed if he saw how physically centralized bitcoin is right now.

>>52860374
Those are not nodes those are mining pool and they can't do shit that goes against the other 14k nodes.

On the other side the 50 bsv nodes(there were 15 a few months ago) can do whatever the fuck they want because there are 0 user nodes enforcing the rules

>>52860380
A lot of bullshit in one comment to say that you do not believe in private property rights.

Faggot commie, you outed yourself kek

>>52860391
you are the communist literally supporting the abolition of half the us constitutional rights bypassing them with administrative law and civil forfeiture (both which are technically illegal as per the us constitution).

>>52860386
>Those are not nodes

Yes they are nodes according the the node definition of the Bitcoin white paper.

Cope.

>>52860386
>Those are not nodes those are mining pool and they can't do shit that goes against the other 14k nodes.
They can still interrupt consensus and make the chain unviable.

>>52860404
the bitcoin whitepaper never expected the existance of mining pools it assumed 1 miner 1 vote.

mining pools changed that because a few pools control most of the hashrate, hence why you need non mining nodes enforcing the rules.

early btc did not had this so miners enforced the rules but when miners got together to mine more the hashpower was centralized and the non mining nodes started to be a need to enforce the consensus rules.

>>52860403
Shut up commie, you've already exposed yourself, you should leave the thread in shame.

Better luck in next thread.

>>52860409
interrupt it yes but at the cost of wasting energy so it cost millions of dollars per day only to slow down the chain.

They can't change shit or seize wallets as they can in bsv with it's 20 nodes, non mining nodes in btc are the jannies of crypto, doing gods work.

>>52851674
no.

>>52860316
How incredibly dishonest of you. Not even going to read anything further from you.

>>52860415
A mining pool operator is ONE Bitcoin node.
Your raspberry PI that does not mine any blocks is NOT a node.

Anything else you need help with understanding?

>>52860430
You don't make any sense. BTC nodes can't do anything bad but BSV nodes can do, okay pal.

>>52860430
>interrupt it yes but at the cost of wasting energy so it cost millions of dollars per day only to slow down the chain.

Why do all bitcoiners have no clue how their chain even works? The node isn't paying for electricity you fucking retard, the only price to create an attack would be the cost to run the server.

This cost is 0 if you are exploiting the mining pool itself, something the feds could do on a whim.

>>52860427
>Shut up commie, you've already exposed yourself, you should leave the thread in shame.

Exposed myself by showing how you are trying to abolish the us constitution with funny legal bypasses?

You know they literally do civil forfeiture by sueing the thing the cops steal right?
If they steal your cash on a route since it goes against the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th ammendment, instead they sue the cash.

Literally cases like united states governments vs 7k usd cash.

google "United States v. in U.S. Currency" and laugh at how the commie subversives abolished the us constitution while retards like you slept.

>>52860441
The corecuck gets btfo by simple logic and now slithering back into its hole

Too easy, retarded commies.

>>52860449
>Your raspberry PI that does not mine any blocks is NOT a node.
Then what is it? Explain genius.

>>52860465
Red herring.

Do you believe in private property rights and the legal enforcement of those rights, yes or no?

>>52852210
Monero is the real bitcoin
/Thread

nice weather app blockchain

>>52860455
btc has two types of nodes, non mining nodes and mining nodes.

bsv has only mining nodes because you need a 7tb disk to run a non mining node for 0 monetary incentive and every block is like 1gb big so you need to keep buying disks to do this.

>>52860462
the only thing mining pools can do in btc is fork to another chain or stop the chain, they can't change the rules to do shit like opening wallets because the non mining nodes prevent that.

>This cost is 0 if you are exploiting the mining pool itself, something the feds could do on a whim.

They are doing it, op post is an example, the best they can do is fork to another chain and then another until they can do shit like civil forfeiture.

>>52860480
Yes i also believe communists should be thrown from helicopters.

And i don't believe civil forfeiture and administrative law are compatible with a free democratic and capitalistic society, they were literally created by the proto commie roosvelt.

>>52860475
>Then what is it?
At best, a network parasite.
At worst, a sybil attack vector on the network.

>>52860495
There is no such thing as ''non mining node'', by definition nodes CREATES BLOCKS. There is no function with your rasperry pies.
https://craigwright.net/blog/bitcoin-blockchain-tech/a-rational-argument-around-nodes/

>>52860489
stop telling them this, we do not want them in our community.

>>52860511
>There is no such thing as ''non mining node'', by definition nodes CREATES BLOCKS. There is no function with your rasperry pies.

Are you dumb?You can see them live

https://bitnodes.io/

most mining pools run 1 node so there are probably 100 mining nodes and 14900 non mining nodes

>>52860495
>Yes i also believe communists should be thrown from helicopters.

Oh really. So where are private property rights enforced or arbitrated in a capitalist society?

>>52860415
>the bitcoin whitepaper never expected the existance of mining pools it assumed 1 miner 1 vote.
You do not know what you are talking about.

>>52860526
Okay, but ''non mining node'' is not node, case closed.

>>52852768
no, you must (((HODLLLLLLLLLLLLLL)))

>>52860495
>the only thing mining pools can do in btc is fork to another chain
They literally cannot do this. Forks are a social issue, not a hashrate issue. You need to get people to run nodes with the new software.


>They are doing it, op post is an example, the best they can do is fork to another chain and then another until they can do shit like civil forfeiture.

This is not at all how bitcoin Shit Version was created. You do not need hashrate to fork a chain, as explained above.

>>52860509
God I fucking hate you LARPing retards who pretend you actually understand how p2p networks work. We're not going to redefine what a p2p node is because you say so.

>>52860524
The kingdom of salvation is at hand, I can rest easy knowing I tried to wake them up

>>52860495
>btc has two types of nodes, non mining nodes and mining nodes.
Jesus read the fucking white paper
ONLY miners are nodes.
If miner are all working for the same company, they constitute ONE node.

The steps to run the network are as follows:
1) New transactions are broadcast to all nodes.
2) Each node collects new transactions into a block.
3) Each node works on finding a difficult proof-of-work for its block.
4) When a node finds a proof-of-work, it broadcasts the block to all nodes.
5) Nodes accept the block only if all transactions in it are valid and not already spent.
6) Nodes express their acceptance of the block by working on creating the next block in the
chain, using the hash of the accepted block as the previous hash.

If they aren't hashing they are not a node.

Now find "NON-Mining Node" in the whitepaper.
Your raspberry pi does NOTHING

>>52860541
>Okay, but ''non mining node'' is not node, case closed.
the term Node is used in p2p architecture to define a peer running the software. You and your fellow midwits are simply trying to redefine the word.

>>52860528
>Oh really. So where are private property rights enforced or arbitrated in a capitalist society?

in courts that respect the constitutions and do not bypass them with ridiculous shit like sueing the good as if it was a live person to avoid the constitution.

The problem is that we are too far gone now, democracy has collapsed to it's own entropy, half the planet constitutions are a piece of paper now, and as shit like cash usage goes down administrative law that bypasses those constitutions keep growing more and more.

You don't seem to understand the difference between civil law and administrative law.

The reason there is a housing bubble everywhere is because real estate is under civil law, while your cash on paypal under administrative law.

Administrative law is totally anti democratic, and literally goes against the rule of law, they literally can steal your money on paypal without even telling you what they are charging you with, you have no right to a legal defense, you have no right to a free defense, you have no right to a speedy trial, you have no 4th ammendment protecting you against unreasonable searches (aka irs asking you to explain your 600 usd paypal payment), you don't even have a right to a jury by trial, or against excessive fines or punishment.

it literally is an anti law undemocratic paralel system growing in our societies like a cancer.

>>52860495
>the only thing mining pools can do in btc is fork to another chain or stop the chain, they can't change the rules to do shit like opening wallets because the non mining nodes prevent that.
BTC changed the underlying Protocol with Segwit. Sewgwit WAS a fork

https://coingeek.com/what-the-fork-happened-to-bitcoin/

>>52860555
>I can rest easy knowing I tried to wake them up
I will lose my fucking mind if our threads and our communities get filled with these speculators going on and on about buying and muh "investments". The worst thing that could happen is them joining because they do not care about creating peer to peer cash.

>>52860561
>arguing semantics with shills
anyone that is stupid enough to fall for their arguments aren't worth convincing otherwise

>>52860526
>Are you dumb?You can see them live
Jesus read the fucking whitepaper. Section5.
and then shut the fuck up already.

>>52860554
>God I fucking hate you LARPing retards who pretend you actually understand how p2p networks work. We're not going to redefine what a p2p node is because you say so.

We are talking about BITCOIN nodes. It is defined in the Bitcoin white paper ONLY, being nodes that mine blocks with proof of work. Section 5 has the clear definition.

Now I understand that you are running some other protocol than the Bitcoin protocol, which is why you are so very confused, but that's not my problem.

>>52860533
>proceeeds to put the 1mb limit and leave the minute wikileaks brings on the swarm.

Had satoshi not left he would be in jail now like the tornado cash dev.

>>52860541
it is

>>52860526
Ya man I got this new node here, I'm gonna run a multi million dollar professional mining operation with it and help the network!

>>52860595
>Had satoshi not left he would be in jail now like the tornado cash dev.
satoshi was glowopped before finishing his project.
verification not required

>>52860571
>in courts
Yes, case closed.

Courts decide ownership and private property rights. So you can kinda sit the fuck down now.

>>52860608
>Courts decide ownership and private property rights. So you can kinda sit the fuck down now.

Not under administrative law which is were cbdcs, digital money or banks lately fall.

>>52860596
>We are talking about BITCOIN nodes.
I don't care. Bitcoin wants to be a peer to peer network so I am not going to redefine the peer to peer definition of a Node to be whatever you losers wish it to be. I will continue to use the universally accepted definition of a Node for peer to peer networks (not just cryptocurrencies retard) and you can keep crying while you try to convince us otherwise.

>>52860600
>Ya man I got this new node here, I'm gonna run a multi million dollar professional mining operation with it and help the network!

No just a 100 usd operation to make you seethe at not being able to fork wallets.

>>52860580
They'll have no choice but to buy
Private money (PM's, Monero) is the future in the coming dystopia

>>52860635
>>52860638
Once BSV sues for the patent it's ALL over

>>52860629
>They'll have no choice but to buy
they need to stay the fuck out until Monero is improved more. It's the only currency I see as true peer to peer cash but it's still a bare minimum viable product in my eyes. Speculators only serve to coopt discussion away from improvement as a currency.

>>52860645
2 more weeks

Who's ready for a #BSV-powered replacement for HTTP?

>>52860616
All private property rights are ultimately arbitrated in a court of law. Licenses, contracts, tort claims, ownership disputes and of course, digital property rights (intellectual property) included.

This is the foundation of capitalism, and this is how civilized white society works, Jamal.

>>52860620
The definition of a Bitcoin node is found in the Bitcoin white paper, section 5.

You can run whatever type of node you like, but what you are running is just not Bitcoin kek

>>52860657
Okay you're right
But we still need visibility

>>52860702
I'm never going to run any form of bitcoin node.

>>52860794
You are not supposed to, seriously. Bitcoin was designed to let user just be users, while mining and transaction processing is a commercial enterprise under the purview of profit incentives. A business. THAT is what Bitcoin is.