/biz/ - Business & Finance

Your assets WILL be regulated.
Even if it costs him everything

Fatty McFakevegan

You will lend the fruits of your labor to the tribe, goy

>>52277740
Some of us have been saying this for over a year

Blahblahblah nothing ever happens. Wake me up when everyone is dead.

>>52278233
they never listen until it's too late

>On the one hand, you have actions that feel more like free speech, expression, and mathematical constructs: those that are purely writing code, deploying it to decentralized blockchains, or validating blocks according to the rules of the chain. Decentralized code as speech.

>On the other hand, you have constructs that look much more like centralized financial services: an American actively hosting a centralized website that markets and actively facilitates US retail investors to access DeFi protocols, or actively marketing products. Centralized GUIs and marketing as regulated financial activities.

> You could write the code for a DEX and upload to a blockchain without a license
> You could trade on a DEX without a license

I expected to find some damning stuff but this actually seems reasonable. I don't mind youtube influencer shills getting the boot and tech illiterate retail retards getting saved from themselves, so long as hard censorship is not happening and p2p software is not being crippled.

crypto was invented to separate finance from government. tech illiterate retail retards deserve what they get, police yourselves and stop begging government to save you because they're not in it for us, they're in it for unchecked power they inevitably abuse, so stop giving it to them.

>>52278478
>crypto was invented to separate finance from government
But what I'm reading here seems to preserve the fundamental separation of finance from government DeFi achieves. This entire article is framed as a suggested path for self policing. Zero regulations would be better, sure, but some regulations are way way worse than others.

>>52278603
yeah i just read it, but i gotta go over it with a fine tooth comb. i don't trust reasonable sounding language at a first glance. bad actors will hide their true intentions behind reasonable sounding prose and you sometimes have to read between the lines or connect some dots to get at their true intentions. there are implications to some of these statements likely that we have not considered.

doing a search to find the arguments against sbfs regulations proposal reveals page after page of articles praising sbf. this is a red flag when they curate search results to block "misinformation". i want to read what both sides of this issue are saying and the search engines aren't letting me do that. just media articles from fucking journalists

so if theres a blacklist of addresses, and the government enforces that, and you're not allowed to transact with addresses on the black list. who determines who is on the blacklist and what constitutes what is worth being blacklisted over? the government decides. so a government list of addresses the government decides are illegal to transact with for reasons the government decides.

in canada the banks seized the funds of protestors. if there was a crypto blacklist there could they have their coins blocked as well. it's illegal to do business with a person from iran, will it be illegal to allow an iranian on a crypto exchange will their funds be blocked.

needing a license to read/write/view a smart contract would mean needing to do kyc just to swap some coins. does that seem reasonable? they have to check if you're licensed first if it needs a license like sam says it should, which means know your customer.

i don't like the idea of "trusted authorities" deciding who is and isn't allowed to trade or use a smart contract based on whatever criteria the government decides and then inevitably expands upon. sam says getting that license should be a matter of passing a financial aptitude test to determine you understand the subject matter. ok but whats next, where does that expand, do you next have to pass a social credit test? will you end up on a blacklist for being born in the wrong country, or saying "hate speech" or "misinformation" online now you can't get a license. as long as kyc isn't mandated in place this isn't an issue, when it is it becomes an issue.

>>52278919
>it's illegal to do business with a person from iran, will it be illegal to allow an iranian on a crypto exchange will their funds be blocked.
pretty sure it already is

>needing a license to read/write/view a smart contract would mean needing to do kyc just to swap some coins. does that seem reasonable? they have to check if you're licensed first if it needs a license like sam says it should,
he specifically says writing and deploying smart contracts must be permissionless

you are certainly right about this being a complete betrayal of the core ideal of crypto for the reasons you have given. for a leftist supporting kike like SBF this is a complete nonissue, just dont be a right wing extremist and you will never have to worry about any of this, no bank or financial institution cares about right wing extremists getting cut out of the financial system.

still these are all things the government is going to regulate one way or the other. so as much as it feels like a betrayal to compromise with regulation, it represents a pragmatic concern.

the only really objectionable part is getting websites who access defi exchanges regulated like exchanges with KYC etc mandated. this essentially kills the defi as you have to access it with a platform that makes enough profit to pay for all the regulation compliance, pushing defi through controlled channels and customers into FTX. there may be an alternative of fucking around with raw code yourself but thats not realistic to transact.

if the hope is that any licensing and blacklisting enforced by the government is done in good faith and won't be expanded upon by a power hungry government elite, that is a naive hope, of course they'll power grab as much as they can and then some.. and if crypto is the future of money what kind of future is that where you need a government approved license to use a defi product. i think its a future that will in time perfectly mirror all the issues with traditional finance we have now, rendering the entire idea and puprose of crrypto moot snd invalid .

>>52278478
>crypto was invented to separate finance from government
And the Jews cant have that!

Mods keep deleting my comments because they're in SBF's pocket. This is just the start of things to come.

>>52278397
Mindless goy

>>52279025
>there may be an alternative of fucking around with raw code yourself but thats not realistic to transact
1. Download Uniswap etc. from github
2. python -m http.server
3. open localhost in browser, use interface as normal

Only retards are filtered, and as an added bonus now frontend hacks are impossible and everyone starts using dApps the correct, decentralized way.

>>52277770
So close. Here's a (((you)))

>>52279025
>he specifically says writing and deploying smart contracts must be permissionless
i read it again and you're right, however he also says
>If you host a website aimed at facilitating and encouraging US retail to connect to and trade on a DEX, this may end up falling under something like a broker-dealer/FCM/etc. You may also potentially have KYC obligations
translation: needing kyc to use a dex
unless you can do it all by code yourself on the backend and realistically almost nobody knows how to do that, is that a pain in the ass it sounds like it.

How fucking crazy is it that we’re basically replaying the early 1900s sound money debates, but regarding crypto and derivatives instead of the gold standard.

>>52279110
or you could use the uniswap frontend on ICP

>>52279174
ICP is also an unregistered security

>>52279174
ICP? What is this, 2021?

>>52279174
Wasn't aware of that but yeah, potentially many decentralized ways to access and use decentralized networks.
>>52279183
That doesn't make it illegal for anyone to download their software.

>>52279110
>python -m http.server
i don't even know what that is or what that means. i don't know how to code, do i now have to learn python code language to trade?
>open localhost in browser
whatever that means

i don't know, maybe it's actually really easy. but maybe not, i have no idea. but i know a lot of people who know something like to pretend everyone who doesn't know what they know is retarded.
why do i have to learn all this shit to use uniswap? why cant i just use uniswap? why make me jump through hoops whats the fucking point. if i was a bad actor i would just learn how to jump through the hoops so what does this accomplish other then making uniswap into a huge pain in the ass. and then later on new regulations come in to close up the backend like it was some kind of loophole to evade the law and then so much for the "smart contracts should be permissionless" idea.

>>52277777

>>52277740
>THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR DEFI
He LITERALLY said he doesn't give a flying fuck about "defi" when he pushed for regulation after raping every legit farm with his 500m stables on every ecosystem in '20 and '21

any powers that can be abused will be abused. any advocating for regulations needs to understand this and account for it to get my support. regulations that depend on the idea that the government will be reasonable and not overstep or expand their authority is naive or malevolent. it should be accepted as not just a possibility but an inevitability that any power they can abuse they will abuse, any inch given will lose a mile.

Holy shit, maybe ICP is actually the next wave... Decentralized computing is the only fight us plebs have against this attack on DeFi. Major FOMO setting in right now!

remember tornado cash? anyone that wanted to anonymize themselves so they can transact some eth without broadcasting their wallet and every activity done with it to every person or entity they do business with was treated like a criminal and put on a blocklist out of nowhere.

ofac, sam wants to trust ofac with this blocklist of his. the same ofac that sued bittex for not blocking tornado cash and not enforcing sanctions on customers from countries on the naughty list.

bittrex caved in and removed all the privacy coins from their exchange and since they played good boy with government they were given their money back.

so now sam wants to formalize that whole process to make it immediate and mandatory with legal penalty to allow any wallet on ofacs broad and expanding naughty list not to be allowed to transact or to perhaps be blocked from access to their funds. this seems concerning

>>52279365
It's just legit disgusting how crypto became the exact opposite of what we all imagined, it became just another Jewish finance tool to fuck the good goys

how much longer until the inevitable red gigadildo?

>>52277740
>possible-digital-asset-industry-standards
>industry standards
>standard
Dare I say, The Standard?

>>52279216
>python -m http.server
you type that command into a terminal. someone could litereally write that line in a batch file, package as an exe, viola you have a desktop program

>>52279409
It's a lengthy and brutal process of CZ TWAP-selling this fucking shitcoin for probably over a month, I honestly don't believe that the Jew is able to hold long than a week tops

and if you want to use stablecoins you need to do kyc? yikes. and why? and once you tell me why, tell me how that doesn't also apply beyond stablecoins. when the day comes that a bitcoin can be transacted as easily as a dollar will i need kyc for the same reasons i will need kyc for a stablecoin? why or why not?

regulations always creep forward and never backwards. they use a foot in the door technique, always one "reasonable" step forward after another until you end up with an entirely unreasonable situation you wouldn't have agreed to if it was presented all at once.

>>52279432
whats a terminal? whats a batch file? package as an exe? how many hours of youtube tutorials will i have to watch before i have even the slightest fuck what you're talking about?

>>52279514
Maybe learn the basics of using a fucking computer you boomer

>>52277740
N

>>52279536
believe it or not but using python commands in a terminal to write batch files to package as an exe, whatever the fuck that means, is not essential knowledge in the operation of a computer. not once in my life have i ever needed to do anything even remotely like that. you're just a smug shit who knows something i don't know and rather then be mature about that you decide to prop up your low self esteem by demeaning everyone who doesn't know the thing you know. its childish

>>52279607
An exe is something you double click and pray that you don't get your computer infected. I'm sure you've seen it before. It abstracts all the command line tooling away from you. The packaging part is what devs would be doing for you so that you have the exe.

>>52279514
>how many hours of youtube tutorials will i have to watch
If bait, well done. If not please kys zoomer

>>52279536
Using terminals and all sort of extremely nerdy coder shit is for boomers.

No one under 22 knows how to do any of that shit and they're not gonna learn just to use a defi exchange. They'll just sign up for FTX and give SBF their money and kyc

I used to run Ubuntu and code python and you could maybe assume computer literate millennials can figure it out but zoomers are the future and none of them know this shit

>>52279633
i know what an exe file is, it's an "app" for desktop computers, back in the day we would call it a "program". but using python commands in a terminal to write a batch file to package as an exe is the confusing bit. or maybe its not that confusing, i've never learned it and wouldn't know where to start and it doesn't interest me and unless i need to learn it i'm not going to bother. there are all kinds of things like that in the world that you also don't know about and aren't interested in learning. grow up.

anyways so i can't use uniswap without kyc and thats ok because a dev will do the code thing with the the python or whatever and i have to trust their exe or watch a thousand youtube videos to do it myself instead? that doesn't sound appealing to me

>>52279514
this nigga not gonna make it

>>52279692
Does anyone here fucking read?

>>52279495
>and if you want to use stablecoins you need to do kyc?
Seems to be a bit more nuanced than that:
>banning all transfers unless allowlisted grinds commerce and innovation to a halt and freezes out the economically disadvantaged. Maintaining a blocklist is a good balance: prohibiting illegal transfers and freezing funds associated with financial crimes while otherwise allowing commerce.

>there should be KYC of the traders participating in the on-ramp/off-ramp process (i.e., KYC of the individuals and entities creating and redeeming the stablecoin)

So basically for just using stablecoins, there would not be KYC required given what's described here. You only need KYC to mint, and only get blocked proactively.

Should be noted that USDC is already cucked beyond belief and is currently the biggest existential threat to the ecosystem. The people controlling the USDC keys can destroy/KYCify any defi platform they want basically at a touch of the button. They already locked everyones funds in Tornado Cash, and freeze wallets in compliance with government sanctions. It's already pretty bad. Regulations or no the solution has to be moving away from permissioned stablecoins.

>>52279697
Yeah... I'm gonna go ahead and suggest you just stick to buying and holding, okay little buddy? Let the adults in the room have these discussions.

Scam Bankrun-Fraud

>>52279734
i've assembled dozens of computers and have acted as tech support for every friend and family member and have been fixing computers for years. i can use a computer and keep it running. i still don't know how to batch file a python script into a terminal or what the fuck ever because its never once come up, i've never even heard about it till now because guess what, it's not a normal and necessary part of the basic operation of a computer. its a special bit of knowledge you get to feel smug about having and delight in calling everyone who doesn't know about it a retard. when someone i know doesn't know what reformatting a computer means i just tell him or help him do it and reinstall windows i don't call him a retard. meanwhile that same guy whose computer i just fixed knows how the electrical wiring in a house works and just fixed my breaker box and he did it without saying "just stick to candles and let the adults handle the electric lighting kid". different people know different things its normal not to know everything. to be an asshole about what you do know is just immature.

>>52279813
Hey look, I'm glad that you helped your aunt who's even more technologically illiterate than you find the Chrome icon on her PC. But let's just have some self awareness to stay in our lanes here.

>>52279844
point is its something i don't need to know and it doesn't interest me. i could probably learn it if i had to but i don't want to have to because it sounds really fucking boring and like i said, its never once come up. so its not the essential basics to use a computer that you pretend it is because i've never fucking heard of it until now.

>>52279892
Are you also butting into conversations with your friends who know all about the electrical wiring?

>>52279909
this conversation is about how sbf wants you to need kyc to use uniswap. so someone said "just python script an exe batch from from github into an exe" and i said i don't know how to do that and in return i'm called a retard who shouldn't touch a computer. its an absurd conversation

>>52279909
it would be like a conversation about electrical wiring where the government wants a kyc process to change a lightbulb and the electrician tells me to bypass it by rerouting the wiring through a secondary breaker box through the installation of a flux capacitor and then calling me a retard when i say i shouldnt have to do that to change a lightbulb. then he tells me to stop using electricity and stay in my lane and stick to candles

>>52279692
I don't even think zoomers know what a file system is, everything just magically works for them lmao

>>52278397
It’s not reasonable and you are an idiot. There’s no place for regulation or licensing in the crypto industry. Anyone who pushes it doesn’t understand the point.

>>52279975

name one time you absolutely needed to use a python script from github written into a terminal batched into an exe. congrats on knowing what all that means but its something you learned because it interests you or because its part of your job. its not an essential bit of knowledge you had to learn just to get through life. so grow up and don't expect people to know shit they don't need and aren't interested in

>>52280017
Dude we get it. Stop spamming about your ignorance like it's something to be proud of it. We've all felt like we don't belong in a conversation at one point or another.

>>52280017
I think you are replying to the wrong guy lol

>>52279932
It isn't unreasonable to expect someone looking to engage with dApps to spend a few minutes doing research and installing software on their computer. There is a lot of risk involved in this stuff and people trying to do it without basic technical understanding or competence are getting fucked constantly.

If you are motivated to not use the regulated frontend and are familiar with using computers you would definitely succeed in getting a decentralized version to work, there's no reason to get this defensive about it.

if i have to learn how to do that backend python script shit just to trade coins on a dex i will. but as of now i wouldn't know where to begin and frankly it all sounds like a bit of a hassle. why should i have to do all that. and why wouldn't they then make doing that illegal at some point as well if people are just going to bypass kyc by learning the backend they'll just ban the backend process to or be mandated to make it impossible? better yet why make kyc mandatory in the first place how about that idea just fucks right off.

>>52280050
Banning the backend is supposed to be difficult in a decentralized environment, since the backend here is on-chain execution.

>>52280086
ok, but supposed to be difficult doesn't mean impossible? honest question. if the government mandated that all exchanges even dexes have to do kyc and then they later mandated that dexes not allow blockchains with a backend accessible in this way to trade at all... would they then remove even from the backend any coin that lets you do this? so the devs would then scramble to make their coins kyc even on the backend just to stay on exchanges? or is that an impossible idea for anything even vaguely along those lines?

>>52280118
A dex is ideally fully processed on chain and self sustainable with immutable smart contracts. A government couldn't mandate that the backend not be accessible in this case, unless the security of the chain itself becomes compromised.

also, if i wanted to trade on uniswap, on the backend. is it actually simple to learn? or is that just smug autists pretending its easier then it actually is so they can other people retards? not everyone has a background in writing python. i know how to edit videos but i don't pretend doing greenscreen work with after effects is something someone completely unfamiliar with video editing could learn and get good at in a few minutes.

>>52280148
Or unless there's some sort of internet bans that inhibit your ability to interact with the chain at all, but this is generally more extreme and can be circumvented too. Just pretty annoying.

>>52280171
>so they can other people retards
so they can call other people retards

>>52280148
alright cool. you say ideally does that mean some (or all) dexes aren't living up to that ideal? i would like to avoid any dex that isn't fully accessible on the backend in case of any surprise situation that the regulators may suddenly roll out

>>52279208
It's 2022 and ICP is growing stronger

>>52280171
You'd have to make your own client like the Uniswap web client, which does everything you see to be able to interact with it. Like pulling pool data, creating transactions, sending them to the chain, etc. But if it ever came down to it, what would happen is that someone would package all of that for you in a program to download.

>>52280050
>and why wouldn't they then make doing that illegal at some point as well if people are just going to bypass kyc by learning the backend they'll just ban the backend process to or be mandated to make it impossible? better yet why make kyc mandatory in the first place how about that idea just fucks right off.
The hope is they would settle for "encouraged" rather than truly mandatory. Dunno if they would but it's possible, a lot of the complaints right now seem to be the huge losses faced by naive retail investors, who would mostly happily accept an on-rails Fischer Price experience with many of the same investment options. Industries coming up with self enforced rules to prevent formal regulations does work sometimes.

As ciM points out it would be much harder for them to attack the networks themselves.

>>52280171
Yes a tutorial video showing how to do it would be like five minutes long

so how does it make sense to demand a kyc process to use a dex when anyone can just dodge that by going on the backend anyways? what is even the point then?

i'm guessing the point is to make dexes harder to use so centralized exchanges like ftx have less competition. weakening defi overall. and if you did need to use kyc to use a dex wouldn't that just drain a fuckload of liquidity from the major dexes making them basically unusable?

>>52280216
do such programs exist now already?

>>52280171
You don't even "need" to learn it, some autist will make and host an exact clone of the UI for everyone anyway

>>52279079
>accuse anon of being mindless
>no elaboration
>offer no supporting reasoning
>append polcel insult, press enter
you really showed him

>>52280248
Yeah, I think the fear many have is that while there are workarounds, many will either not have the knowledge (even though they'll likely be as user friendly as possible) or the will to do them, and it'll slowly kill DeFi if it gets regulated to shit. You already need to KYC with launchpads and orderbook style dex.

and even if you could access the backend of a dex could the government still make that illegal? and then you just hope you don't get caught despite a growing surveillance state? even if the odds of getting caught with your python scripted github exe was low, if the punishment was high would you risk it? seems like this sort of thing could kill the idea of defi even if you could get around it by downloading the right (and possibly future illegal and removed from github exe) would you take the risk?

>>52280312
True

>>52277740
>betraying
He was always against you

>>52280358
and then i have to trust this code that i don't understand won't be used to steal my coins? this doesn't sound ideal. you could say thats already the case but i think "some app" on github is more shady and less vetted then a major blockchain or well used dex.

>>52280380
There might be releases by official GitHub repos if it comes down to it. If not then yes, other people will do it or host their own sites. That's the benefit of compiling the code yourself. But nobody ever reads the smart contracts or the code even when it's available, and there are plenty of other ways you can get legitimately fucked like exploits. You have to take a risk one way or another.

>>52280380
Start with tiny fractions of coins
Only waste the gas costs

>>52279274
>Holy shit, maybe ICP is actually the next wave
Always has been