/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>52264751
its a shame what they made out of defi.

so the eth boomers are figuring out what everyone else has known for years?

>>52264842
Yeah I guess, now that it's actually being quantified.

>>52264962
what was there to quantify much. The prove was in the chain all along. twap lps are shit.

>>52264995
Yeah, but it was supposed to be the entire reason that AMM's are better than orderbooks, besides catering to retards.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>52265119
Its easier to catch ponzi players with "returns" than accurate prices. defi is in shambles 1.8 Million uaws. I partly hope that btcs smart contract makeshift somehow saves the day because from the eth fags and the rest, not to be expected

>>52265159
you dont really expect anything from maxies lol they sit on their fat asses waiting for the next halving. eth fags only care about mev so you are right to expect nothing from them

>>52265229
The MEV'd themselves to the point that they destroyed any incentive for anyone besides pre mine whales to participate

>>52265229
there are attempts. Not by maxis though, they wait for regulatory status and yeah, halving.

why are people still providing liquidity then if it loses them profit?

>>52266704
because those bot wallets are operated by premine whales whose #1 priority is to keep the plates spinning.

>>52264751
Well duh, pools with less than 100% APR will always lose you money on IL.
The whole point was making money off 1000% APR pools, which has quadrupled a small stack for me these past 4 weeks.
Also I'd stay away from ETH-based DeFi as it's too saturated. Arbitrum, Polygon and Optimism on the other hand... see for yourself

>>52266869
as per yield samurai for the past hour:
> GOO-WETH Uniswap v3 Ethereum - 2000%+ APR
> WETH-RGT Uniswap v2 - 500,000%+ APR consistently for the past week
> THE-USDC Uniswap v2 - 134,110%+ APR consistently for the past week

There's dozens of these pools. A lot of them are sub 10k TVL but you can easily double $1000 within a day on some of those, and the profits from the successful ones far outweight the occasional rugpull for me.
The only scam in the entire DeFi space was calling impermanent loss "impermanent". It's permanent AF, but as long as you beat it with insanely high yields, you're golden.

>>52266780
>>52266704
So is the idea whales will LP as bait and extract MEV from traders in excess of pool losses? 4D chess if that game is consistently profitable..

>>52266869
>>52266921
Arbitrum is a vc scam

>>52267171
All L2s are, AVAX is the only legit EVM-compatible network.
But funny enough, AVAX has the worst APY-s.
So I barely use it. Who cares if it's a VC scam, milk it while you can.

>>52267137
That's literally the point of ETH. Create shitcoin, hype, front run the users orders, profit by dumping tokens. Now they LP to extend the hype period because the VCs cannot count on retail to get excited for new shitcoins

I dont understand any of this yield farming LP shit. I didnt pay attention when defi kicked off in 2020 and in never got the info

>>52267205
You missed out on 300% APY on stablecoins.
You could literally outperform BTC last bull run with no risk by simply holding USDC and farming with it on established DeFi platforms.
Also when Pangolin launched, you could deposit LINK-AVAX and USDC-AVAX for 25,000 PNG per week each, at $7 per PNG. It was a fun week for me, especially when the AVAX bridge broke down and nobody could dilute my profits kek.
Not too late to learn, anon, there's tons of money to be made with DeFi. Now the winning strategy is spreading between dozens of pools. Shitcoins at 5k APY and if there's 1k APY for legit coins, that too. The profits far outweigh the occasional rug.

i dont get it. if the price EVER returns to the price they entered LP, then didn't they all make a ton of money in fees by LPing?

>>52267416
>WEW
the real world doesn't farm gramps. it's a ride or die world out here, ain't no granddaddy gonna play around like that. sounds fun tho, no cap.

>>52267510
Listen what, zoomer, I'll tell you as a guy who barely has hair on the back of his head.
One in 100,000 people will get lucky from crypto and make it based on no reading, no skill and no competitive advantage overall.
A ton of people will make it by doing the bare minimum of work and research. Be one of them, anon.
Just go out there looking for pools, analyze their performance, create a model where you have 20 different pools farming at 5000 APR (not APY, APY for 5000 APR is in the hundreds of thousands), and see how 3 can pay off for 17 rugs. In reality you'll have between 0 and 1 rugs, 5 underperformers and 15-ish profitable pools.
Then instead of being greedy, you only reinvest half your profits, the rest go into stablecoin pools with consistent 20%+ APR. And you withdraw every now and then for living expenses.

You'll never make it by holding BTC. Us boomers only made it in crypto through:
>1. unironically harder work than others, I can elaborate if you're interested
>2. buying promising ICOs. Now the promising ICO prices are only available to VCs so you might as well forget about this one
>3. buying forgotten coins. For /biz/ last bull run that was AKRO and FTM, now idk, or maybe I do but I don't want to be a pajeet shill. DYOR
>4. timing market cycles well + using lowcaps that moon harder than BTC. But this is also based on luck, only Jerome and his jewish friends know when the printer will resume work. Odds are better than 1/100000 but it's not really in "make it" territory.

So get on your ass and start reading about pools and new L2s.

>>52267560
>So get on your ass and start reading about pools and new L2s.
this post was brought to you by the grassroots punk Ethereum Community

>>52264751
The Internet Computer is the future of DeFi. It will have all the features and convenience of CeFi, with real order books and none of the LP bullshit. And it will be real DeFi with BTC. Everything up until now has been the kindergarten phase.

>>52265159
> I partly hope that btcs smart contract makeshift somehow saves the day because from the eth fags and the rest, not to be expected
>>52265229
> you dont really expect anything from maxies lol they sit on their fat asses waiting for the next halving.
It's not the BTC maxis' job. It would certainly have been eth's job, but instead of figuring out how to integrate with BTC, they wanted to be the store of value instead, and so they fucked all of crypto for all these years.
Now the Internet Computer is here. We will have real smart contracts for BTC and the crypto space can finally get started.
BTC is good enough just as a digital store of value with transactions as its only feature to get all the way to where it is today. But the REAL feature that BTC unleashes is "programmable money". When BTC becomes truly programmable in the Internet Computer, that's when the real potential of crypto is unleashed.
Ethereum, meanwhile, has always been a joke. If BTC has been programmable money waiting for the programmability, ETH is programmable money waiting for the money. Eth is a gas token, pretending it is hard money has always been a sick joke. But all of that is history now and water under the bridge because real, programmable money is finally here with BTC+ICP and the real cypherpunk revolution is about to begin.

>>52267666
usd is just oil. once the petrodollar is gone, so is usd

eth is oil with much better tokenomics

>>52267706
I like your argument, and I very much respect that you frame Eth's value in terms of gas being valuable (rather than saying Eth could be digital gold). I think you are right in your oil analogy, but I don't think it will be Ethereum that becomes that digital oil. Or rather, it will be just one type of oil among many. You will need link for oracles. You will need grt for queries. You will need eth for crazy flashloan arbitrage contracts. You will need icp for...well, in the end, to run all of the above, as if the AWS they currently run on had a gas token.

>>52267800
spoonfeed me, does icp replace aws? i've always heard that was the biggest single point of failure in crypto, we're all relying on aws

and yea i dont think eth is definitely going to be #1 forever, but i think it's a pretty safe bet it will be for the next 3-5 years. just has too much momentum at this point imo

Just use saucerswap

>>52264751
bad data from retards who can't into data. LPs will lose to IL, markets are down so fuckload of LPs are underwater but still collecting fees. Best way to get real data is to look at stable pools which are still in profit because it just fine. This is like saying BTC is rigged because its not $60k anymore. Like no shit the price is down, fuckface. You're still holding these assets even when they're sitting in a liquidity pool for you to gain yield from. Do you expect them to magically keep their fucking value when the market tanks?

I don't expect 99% of /biz/ to actually understand any of this shit though so not sure why I'm bothering.

>>52267560
You're totally full of shit, kike.

>>52267849
Nobody uses or develops for ICP. Like every other ghostchain, it just sells people who don't actually use it themselves on fantastic promises that nobody can verify because nobody uses the chain in the first place.

Ask OP how many transactions he does on ICP and if he uses it daily for anything.

>>52267849
icp replaces aws for crypto and defi. It has the potential to replace aws period, but that's not a logical growth path, it makes much more sense that it will start to grow where it makes the biggest difference. Here's the spoonfeed.
If you take a step back, and then another, what crypto really is, is a new type of decentralized job market. In a nutshell, a crypto will succeed when it creates incentives for, and can support, that a bunch of people allocate hardware to running a service, such that users pay for using the service and the revenue goes to the people providing the service. When joining and using the service is permissionless, you suddenly have a new type of job market with absolutely no middlemen between consumer and provider. BTC was the first, and is the purest, and the service is simply extremely secure value storage. But take Chainlink, same idea, you create a protocol where anyone (soon) can allocate some hardware to running an oracle service, and anyone can use it. Same with GRT. Same with Ethereum. However, unlike with BTC, you don't require specialized hardware to run the service, so that means most people who allocate hardware to their networks, will in fact opt to rent that hardware, today usually from Jeff Bezos.
Well, that's better than nothing, it's still a bunch of hardware being allocated, but it would be even better for decentralization if, say, most Ethereum service providers ran their own hardware. But for most cryptos except BTC, the incentive is not there, so unfortunately today Bezos has outsized power over the future of finance.
ICP solves this by coming up with a general purpose protocol for providing a hardware service. If you want to make money as an ICP provider, instead of downloading a program to run (which you will probably run on aws), you have to show up with a truck full of hardware (kind of like a BTC miner), and then you let other protocols run their programs and protocols on that hardware instead of on aws.

>>52267496
No.
Think about what is actually happening here:
You're putting up money that only moves when someone chooses.
Sure, sometimes there is genuine demand, some regular Joe uses your liquidity to buy a token they want. In that case, on average you'll make money from the fee.
Now lets think about what the reality of this scam actually is:
The price moves. Over 9000 bots and various MEV chads are constantly extracting millions of dollars per day in profit. But from who?
It's easy to answer the question when you think about who is offering them free money on chain.
Price goes up? LPs lose.
Price goes down? LPs lose.
Price stays the same but none buys because there's no profit to extract? Well, LPs don't lose here for once.
People laugh at 42069% APY incentives for LPs, but really without those you're whoring your money out to be raped and pillaged by sharp traders and bots.
If there were no bots and sharp traders and it was just regular dudes speculating and gambling on chain, then with a high enough fee it would likely be profitable. Is that the reality? No. Obviously not.

>>52267970
How so?
There's dozens of pools right now with 10000% APR. This would last for no longer than a week but it's still easy money.
I've been making profit this way for months.
How am I full of shit, enlighten me?

>>52267179
I agree with you, just know when to exit after milking.

Rather focus on games of avalanche such as the gamestar+

>>52264751
his twatter handle is
@thiccythot_

>>52267560
How to into staking? Am normie new faggot. I know what a pool is but wdym “farm”?

>>52267967
This. The board is so fucking retarded it's unbelievable. Everyone is just looking an opportunity to shill their own shitty coin.

>>52267595
lol
fuck Joe Lubin

>>52264751
>LPs in ETH/USDC are down bad YTD.
No shit, Eth was near ATH and LP holders have exposure to Eth. If they had invested that in pure Eth their losses would be worse. If they had split their investment between Eth and USDC but not in a LP their losses would be worse.

It seems like they're trying to package this as being about something it isn't and hide the misdirection with finance jargon.

>>52268051
None of this addresses the question and the correct answer is Yes. It doesn't matter how smart the traders are. It's an algorithmic impossibility for the price to return to the same level and a LP to then have a lower total value than it started with. If you don't understand this you don't understand the basic concept of Uniswap and shouldn't be talking about it.

There isn't a guarantee that the price will return, but if it does you've made money, simple as

>>52268758
Google something like
> how to farm sushi
> how to farm on quickswap
There's brainlet-proof tutorials.

>>52268080
Because 10000% APR is a fuckin meme and you know it. Nobody truly expects these kinds of returns, this is all hinging on your worthless pokemon coin holding up it's price while jeets redeem while the redeemin's good.
Pools that offer this are often diluted beyond oblivion by large wallets, their staking rewards will ALWAYS outpace yours and the sell pressure will tank your shitcoin lp and it'd be a miracle if you broke even after a year.
You making money off these ridiculous APRs is an unforseen byproduct of their inherent design. It is not meant for (You) to make it.

Reminder that this completely useles shitcoin that only handles like 2% of total oracle volumes is ranked higher than Chainlink which handles 95% of oracle volumes.

>>52268080
I knew you were jewish. Pajeets and chinks can double their $10 all day long I'm sure and it's great for them but that's not shit to anyone else and the second you make a real move you get fucked. It's a bitch tier game for minnows now because anyone with some actual weight gets frontrun, mev raped, and/or rugged every time.

>>52268975
I understand how Uniswap works. The point is that there's the actual price, and then there's the pair that moves along the x*y curve. And 99% of the movements of the pair are away from the actual price in reality, generating value for people exploiting the way it works(unless you manage the pair yourself via rebalancing it manually, which is possible but I don't think many people actually do this(maybe funds and such)).
Not only is there not a guarantee that the price will return to the actual price(where you determine your profit), all non-naive buys and sells strictly interact with the pair to execute trades at prices that are better than actual market rates. So you rely on naive buys and sells, yet there are very few of those these days.
This was fine as a proof of concept back then. Also it's a trade off for decentralization, so it's not quite as stupid as it looks at first to outsiders. But it's pretty shit. And people are building better AMMs right now as we speak.

>>52269154
>Because 10000% APR is a fuckin meme and you know it
You mean you're too lazy to exit the pool within a week after doubling your money?
Of course it's a meme long-term, but look at 10k+ APR pools on yield samurai, out of 100 there's at least 20 that have been consistent at it for more than a week.
> Nobody truly expects these kinds of returns
Not from a single pool, but if you follow them and milk them for a few days each it's kind of sustainable, especially with 0-fee L2s like Arbitrum.
> Pools that offer this are often diluted beyond oblivion by large wallets
Not in my experience. Also this is usually not FARMING APY, it is APR from fees, mostly from 1% uniswap v3 pools. You're probably thinking the 2021 useless shitcoin farming mania, this is gone (but it was also reasonably safe).
> the sell pressure will tank your shitcoin lp and it'd be a miracle if you broke even after a year
Been doing this for months, as long as you're not greedy and you're putting profits into stablecoin pools twice per week you're fine. Of course there's going to be weeks where things go south, but over the long haul it's profitable in my experience.
>You making money off these ridiculous APRs is an unforseen byproduct of their inherent design. It is not meant for (You) to make it.
Everyone on 4chin who is not a 2020 newfag already made it to an extent. And these pools are mostly utilised by oldfags who find farming fun.
>>52269182
> I knew you were jewish
Not jewish
> Pajeets and chinks can double their $10 all day long I'm sure and it's great for them but that's not shit to anyone else and the second you make a real move you get fucked
This is not a play for six figures and more, agreed. But you can play with $20k-ish and watch them grow, which for me is super fun. I've been rugged a few times and I'm still WAY ahead. Just diversify between more 10000% APR pools and you'll always have a winner that makes up for the rugs and then some.

>>52269182
> anyone with some actual weight gets frontrun, mev raped, and/or rugged every time
I think you're too skeptical and cynical. I farmed $250k a week during the farming craze (esp. when Pangolin launched).
I've only been rugged for something like $200.
Some platforms are less safe than others and require different strategies.
But there's ways to profit from both of them.

>>52269189
Actually I should correct that: 99% of the movements are not *away* from the actual price, they are towards the price but since it's not profitable to pay the actual price, it's towards the price in a way that still leaves a small gap. Until the real price moves again, and the pair offers another offer off the actual price which is then exploited again by someone.

>>52269257
I farmed over one trillion DegeasDogBonez.

>>52268684
Still waiting for the launch of this token. When launch?

>>52267604
Agree with this, the future of Web3 is the internet computer but there is still some money to be made farming microcaps like 0xMR on Swapr that haven't bridged to the internet computer yet.

>>52267800
>(rather than saying Eth could be digital gold)
>noooo please my inferior piece of shit ponzi has to be the digital gold eth cant just do it better IT JUST CANT
the cope is unbelievable tier

>>52265159
>btcs smart contract makeshift
Why would you want bitcoin to be captured by stablecoin providers?

>>52267560
>stablecoin pools with consistent 20%+ APR
that doesn't exist, at least for USD stables and who wants to hold bullshit fiat other than USD these times

>>52264751
What a retarded chink. That's by design

>>52270610
usdd is around 10-15% i think

but hes likely referring to new protocols on new chains which have a high risk of rug

>>52269257
>>52266921
So I should be looking for consistently performing pools?

Is there a TVL that is too low for you to enter? is it that the lower the TVL the greater the risk of you getting rugged? What about APR? B/c I'm looking at all these places and, for example, when looking at most apps trading in AVAX or MATIC the APR doesn't break 200k%, whereas when I look at uniswap v2 or v3 I'm seeing sub 1k or sub 5k TVL's with DAPRs at several 100ks. How do you evaluate the risk?

And is this the sorta thing you'd just do on the daily by keeping an eye on charts and exiting at the right time, or do you let it rip for a handful of days before exiting?

>>52270610
>that doesn't exist, at least for USD stables and who wants to hold bullshit fiat other than USD these times
See pic. There's another full page of these on yield samurai.
>>52271846
Yeah, the YS front page is littered with pools that are 58505845% APY but it turns out it's because a whale fat fingered ONCE, and the site is set to show you the 24hr APR. Once you move to weekly or monthly you'll see that the rest of the days it's staying on 0%.
Once you see a pool with decent coins and decent rates you need to open its page and check history at least 1 month back (so that the smallest timeframe is a day). Otherwise you'll be lured in by insane APR only to get 0 + the impermanent loss for the pool.

>>52272586
P.S. There's no real good stablecoin pool above 7% APR that can sustain 6 figures and more.
That I agree with. But my larger sums of money are not even targeting max APR, I keep most of my stables on Aave simply because I feel safe leaving them there.

>>52264751
tweet doesnt make much sense desu, they mentioned they dont even consider when you bought eth or LP'd it. (tweet only compares price from t minus days right?)

LP is very useful & good to reduce existing eth exposure, and earning on it whilst you do/wait.

>>52272586
are you retarded?

first: uniswap aprs are for the full range of the total liquidity - real apr for your range will be much lower
second: tvl is a joke - be happy with your 1$ per day if you don't want to pollude the pool
third: apr over 7 days or let alone 1 month is much less

>>52267666
>>52270555
>>52265159
Mintlayer looks appealing to me.
Ideally, l1 should only be used as a settlement layer.
another layer should be used for transaction processing.
Mintlayer seems like an interesting solution, where the gas for the transactions are decided by those who process them.

>>52272688
>first: uniswap aprs are for the full range of the total liquidity - real apr for your range will be much lower
It's much higher actually, as long as you're in range, because some of the TVL is not and you're splitting profits with less people.
>second: tvl is a joke - be happy with your 1$ per day if you don't want to pollude the pool
There's a couple of 100k-1m pools that you can see with a literal single mouse scroll but I guess you're too lazy for this.
>third: apr over 7 days or let alone 1 month is much less
My money usually moves twice per week. And just by looking at the graphs you can tell which pools have a somewhat sustained yield. Also which ones make their money from fees, and which from farming.
Yeah, it is work and it takes 10 hours per week but for me it's totally worth it.

>>52272854
thanks but i get 40% APR on 42k USDC since 3 month elsewhere

>>52272871
>thanks but i get 40% APR on 42k USDC since 3 month elsewhere
That's pretty cool, WP anon.
It's not on YS so I assume it's some sort of "incentivised" pool. Jarvis used to give me 500% APR on 100k back in the day, unfortunately that's long gone.
WP on finding something that profitable.

>>52273034
its on curve but yes its incentivised

>>52265159
>BTC smart contracts
Satoshi, by design, did not make smart contracts possible because it would be a fucking shitshow.
The one to add smart contracts was a 17-year old basedboy who has proven again and again to be nothing but an inept nerd who thinks he's smarter than he really is.