/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>51662266
banks have a reserve requirement of ZERO since march 15, 2020

and yet the dollar is still surging destroying everything, i guess the MMT economists were right. you actually can just fake it till you make it.

>>51662266
Finance and economics are pseudoscientific make believe garbage, capitalism is inherently unstable, exploitative and unsustainable with a built in expiration date. All finance assets like money,crypto,debt,bonds etc are purely parasitic in nature and serve no purpose nor have any inherent value. Ever escalating recessions, poverty, wealth inequality, monopolies, disease, pollution, slavery, conflict and wars are fundamental, necessary and intended functions of it, NOT glitches, and every single financier or crypto dudebro is a literal parasite.

>>51662474
This is the mindset of someone spending real big feeling real good until that first "Card Declined" message comes up

>>51662474
>i guess the MMT economists were right.
we're currently experiencing massive inflation
you are wrong

Money does not represent value, or energy, or work. There is no such thing as "savings" in a monetary sense, that idea is magical thinking. Money is a technology that is used for the purpose of commerce, and nothing more. In time it won't exist at all, when it is replaced by better technology

>>51662544
>capitalism is inherently unstable,
this is the lowest of IQ takes
the only thing that causes instability is government intervention
we see this in the current world and we saw this in every socialist state in history

>>51662266
What do you mean by fundamentals? Argentina is raising interest rates and not getting inflation under control.
All MMT explains is nations with their own floating currency and no large foreign liabilities in foreign currencies don't have real hard budget constraints and don't have to default on debt in a monopoly currency they issue... the real fundamentals are supply side and the world fucked that up with ideological green energy policies. Nations like America, Britain, Japan, etc aren't going to default but you have nations like Britain using fiscal stimulus by cutting taxes and such which is dumb right now if MMT is right. For MMT to be wrong monopolist governments would have to be forced to default on their public debt, that can only happen in the Eurozone because those governments use the Euro and not their own monopoly currency they control nationally. The Eurozone collapsing in the coming years will prove MMT right

>>51662661
There's nothing that facilitates trade as well as money.
The problem is the money is monopolized by the state.

>>51662695
austrian economics already proved MMT wrong using formal logic, it's literally over
Imagine WANTING your wages and savings to constantly devalue over time lol

>>51662695
>is nations with their own floating currency and no large foreign liabilities in foreign currencies don't have real hard budget constraints and don't have to default on debt in a monopoly currency they issue
But they try to downplay and ignore the major consequences that come with the amount of currency that has been created. Lighting the couch on fire and claiming everything is alright because the house hasn't burn down yet but still going around lighting more things on fire

>>51662658
not more than usual really. healthcare, education, and housing costs have been inflating at double digits because of government subsidized loans for several decades. without any MMT. where was the outcry about inflation then? Food and gas have gotten a little more expensive but especially with gas that can be explained by the energy policies of the current admin being less favorable to oil and gas companies than the previous one

>>51662715
>There's nothing that facilitates trade as well as money
For now.
>The problem is the money is monopolized by the state.
I disagree, money itself is an intermediary. Even a decentralized money has problems.

>letting rich people do whatever they want(“the market”) with no restrictions magically fixes all problems.

libertarians/rightoids will just think whatever the billionaire funded think-tanks tell them to think. Smooth-brained retards.

>>51662474
>>51662794
>not more than usual really
leave it to the keynesian or the MMTard to expect you to be fine with over 10% inflation

>>51662794
>without any MMT.
What? LOL We essentially had MMT, just not in name.
We've been printing a fuckton of money since 1971, especially after 9/11 and after 2008.

>>51662860
>>letting rich people do whatever they want(“the market”)
That's not even close to what a free market means lmfao

>libertarians/rightoids will just think whatever the billionaire funded think-tanks tell them to think
It's incredible that you people can ONLY argue against the dumbest bootlicking strawman arguments your leftist/corporate youtube videos tell you about libertarianism.

>>51662474
Just because the USD is the smartest retard on the short bus doesn't mean it's "surging." If you haven't noticed, It costs more to buy shit than it was a year ago

>>51662860
Also, if billionaires love free markets so much, why do they spend billions of dollars shilling AGAINST free markets and libertarianism?

>>51662695
>For MMT to be wrong monopolist governments would have to be forced to default on their public debt
"MMT is fine as long as my self-defined, arbitrary standards are met"

ruining the lives of your citizens and consistently destroying the future of the next generations is cool i guess as long as you don't default (aka the jewish bankers keep collecting interest)

>>51662860
funny how the overwhelming majority of billionaires seem to benefit from state interventionism, while the middle class is being destroyed
but that doesn't matter to your kind as long as they include a rainbow logo

>>51662979
>ruining the lives of your citizens and consistently destroying the future of the next generations is cool i guess as long as you don't default (aka the jewish bankers keep collecting interest)
You reminded me of a paragraph from this book
RE: Bank of England
>At the start of World War I in 1914 the national debt stood at 650 million. On march 31 1919 it had increased to 7.434 billion of which 3 billion is still oustanding after 95 years at an interest rate of 3.5% per annum. In the 1919 budget 40% of expenditure was allocated to the payment of interest. In World War II the national debt rose by almost 300% from 7.1 billion in 1939 to 20.1 billion in 1945. As at March 2017 it stands at over 1.8 Trillion. However, if one includes all liabilities, including state and public pensions, it exceeds 5 trillions.

>>51662658
Inflation is obviously possible, no one claims otherwise. The argument is how it's dealt with. The claims are all over the place but anti-MMT people think budget deficits are the number one issue so countries with budget surpluses can better handle these types of situations which they really aren't. Anti-MMT people think monetary policy and changes in interest rates can fix inflation, the MMT idea is only fiscal policy can fix the supply side problems and doing stuff like deregulating energy polices, changes interest rates won't stop Eurotards from freezing as they shut down more nuclear plants

>>51662751
Because the quantity theory of money is wrong. Look at bitcoins exchange rate, the quantity is totally predictable but the value is more extreme in swings :^)

>>51662266
You have no clue what MMT even is.

>>51663096
>The claims are all over the place but anti-MMT people think budget deficits are the number one issue
no, we're claiming money printing is the number one issue

>>51663096
>"Because the quantity theory of money is wrong"
wow since supply/demand no longer applies to fiat, i guess we can print it infinitely
MMT expert just ended world poverty

>>51663053
>benefit from state interventionism, while the middle is being destroyed
Here's a thought: if you retards didn't keep voting to give politicians the power to do this and keep voting for those same politicians, the government wouldn't have the power for interventionism. But you moron's solution to this is even bigger government.

>>51663210
yes, the threadly retard who thinks voting matters
took you too long

>>51662715
>The problem is the money is monopolized by the state.

So how many Troy Oz of Shiney rock should u accept for an 8 hour shift?

>>51663347
It would likely be some form of digital gold/silver or crypto or some other form of decentralized currency.

>>51662794
>the energy policies of the current admin

They should be hung from lampposts for these policies

>>51663347
yeah fuck guess you're right
if only there were 2 metals out there that could be used efficiently and consistently for thousands of years with no failure...
guess paper money monopolized by the state is the only option...

>>51662820
>Even a decentralized money has problems.

Yes, but BTC works well as a measurement of denomination of value

>>51662474
yeah and hows that working out for literally every other currency?

>>51663390
>guess paper money monopolized by the state is the only option...

Shiney rocks need to be minted into coins with a ruling monarchs face on it to become fungible tokens

>>51663243
Is not like people want more government regardless if their vote counts or not. Oh wait.

>>51663447
yeah, except that people always accept silver/gold no matter what
and even in your hypothetical scenario where precious metals are legally unusable unless processed by an authoritarian government, you could still just go to a bank with the metal and be recompensed with the appropriate amount of legal tender (just like US banks used to do when usd was still gold redeemable)

>>51663482
only retards, the gullible and failures want more government

>>51663083
>Schacht wanted to stop Hitler from printing money and saving the economy
>Money printing wasnt real inflation.

>>51663527
>you could still just go to a bank with the metal and be recompensed with the appropriate amount of legal tender (just like US banks used to do when usd was still gold

>legal tender

So gold shouldn't be legal tender because it needs to be minted by authoritarian; but USD is inflating due to fed easy credit markets. But BTC cannot be legal tender because there isn't a clear way to distribute the money.

What's your solution?

>>51663531
a thing about this, hitler was using money printing to fund projects that increased productivity, like roads and industry
this was possible because germany back then was several times behind its "true" potential, aka at the point where such investments were relatively safe and with good returns

the worst part about modern money printing is that it's used on dumb shit or to cover deficit spending (by having the future generations suffer) of dogshit politicians
money printing to get the funds to exploit a recently discovered gold vein can be interpreted as an acceptable sacrifice
money printing because you are on a deficit but you don't want to cut on social spending out of fear of losing votes is just plain retardation

>>51663609
>So gold shouldn't be legal tender
>But BTC cannot be legal tender
sorry i don't have a solution in your schizo scenario full of false statements and denial of reality
the real solution (which you are probably already aware of but conveniently ignore) is paper money 100% backed by gold/silver; it combines convenience of paper with the safety and reliability of precious metals

>>51663743
>is paper money 100% backed by gold/silver; it combines convenience of paper with the safety and reliability of precious metals

Backing the paper money with a seal of the U.S. armed forces would provide more faith in that currency than a convertibility to Troy Oz ratio.

However there should still be a hard money reserve requirement, and BTC should not be "banned."

>>51663823
>Backing the paper money with a seal of the U.S. armed forces would provide more faith
>faith
it's not a problem of faith, it's a problem of supply
even 100% fiat money could be semi-acceptable in an ideal universe where governments are benign and do not print

but when the monetary supply is inflated (original definition of inflation) turns out even the US army cannot control the prices

>>51662741
Austrian economics doesn't even have a liquidity preference theory. It's pretty retarded to not have something basic like that.

>>51663180
>no, we're claiming money printing is the number one issue
Who? Who's arguing for more regulations on cryptocurrencies? The primary argument was always over public deficit spending and budgets I thought

>>51663195
>wow since supply/demand no longer applies to fiat, i guess we can print it infinitely
You said noting about demand, you said quantity i.e. supply. The government can impose a tax of up to 100% by fiat also.

>MMT expert just ended world poverty
That has to do with real goods, money isn't wealth and the only way to end poverty is more real goods.

>>51663743
>the real solution (which you are probably already aware of but conveniently ignore) is paper money 100% backed by gold/silver; it combines convenience of paper with the safety and reliability of precious metals
Every government peg in history has failed. Why would you think that could work? Why not allow people to freely buy gold and silver if they want or invest in private scams that will fail.

>>51663823
>However there should still be a hard money reserve requirement
Why? Why should the government compete with people to hoard gold?

>>51663918
>it's a problem of supply
>even 100% fiat money could be semi-acceptable in an ideal universe where governments are benign and do not print

The Fed is printing the money using asset purchases, the money printer meme is an analogy. Even if they only literally print enough physical dollars to recover destroyed money, that wouldn't solve the issue.

>but when the monetary supply is inflated (original definition of inflation) turns out even the US army cannot control the prices

Every time a loan is originated value is created from nothing other than the FAITH that the borrower will make good on the repayment, and therefore since debts can be purchased and sold in secondary markets, the money supply fluctuates considerably. That's where economists came up with M1 and M2 and different ways to represent how much is actually in circulation vs. how much "exists."

TL;DR, supply is not the issue; the ease at which loans are increasing the supply due to interest rates is effecting the FAITH in the money

>>51663956
yes they do
https://mises.org/library/man-economy-and-state-power-and-market/html/ppp/1077

>>51664168
According to Rothbard gold is a natural monopoly and everything else violates natural law and is criminal [i.e. anyone claiming buttcoin is money is violating the NAP and can be executed]

>>51664058
>the only way to end poverty is more real goods.

Which means incentivizing production and enterprise, which means cutting as much red tape (regulation) as possible.

When consumer protection has gone so far as to take all the risk out what a person chooses to consume, why should a company care about brand image or integrity? That's literally the only reason we put up with all the marketing and advertising bullshit, it was a way to signal to consumers which brands and products are safe amd can be trusted.

The daddy government comes in with "consumer protections" and "class action lawsuits" and now marketing class is "draw a pretty picture and make a joke, if you can afford the 2 minute Television time."

>>51664058
>Why should the government compete with people to hoard gold?
I said hard money, gold is just one form of hard money.

>>51664216
>[i.e. anyone claiming buttcoin is money is violating the NAP and can be executed]

When the hell did the NAP become gospel? And Ayn Rand was wrong, just look at the world wars. Why do modern libertarians cling to NAP and Rand still?

>>51664242
>which means cutting as much red tape (regulation) as possible
Well that has noting to do with monetary policy so I'll give you that but most of that red tape is the result of corporate lobbying

>The daddy government comes in with "consumer protections" and "class action lawsuits"
This is where lolberts get disingenuous and reveal themselves as corporate shills... lolberts claim litigation as an alternative to government regulations but really want to regulate the law to protect corporations from litigation and let them get away with anything :^)

>>51664216
>Only state can be monopoly
>State is monopoly on violence
>Gold is natural monopoly
>Gold is natural state
>Gold is natural monopoly on violence
>Gold is going to kill BTC holders

Bros, I am scared, I have 7 oz of gold and they might kill me in sleepd

>>51664444
>lolberts claim litigation as an alternative to government regulations

No, if you drink poison that's your problem.

none of you understand modern monetary theory lol

>>51664463
>Gold is natural monopoly on violence
>Gold is going to kill BTC holders

Kek

>>51664489
Of course not, it makes no sence

>>51664216
>According to Rothbard gold is a natural monopoly and everything else violates natural law and is criminal
No.
Holy shit strawman harder.

>>51664342
>And Ayn Rand was wrong, just look at the world wars.
How do wars refute her?

>Why do modern libertarians cling to NAP and Rand still?
They don't? Libertarians hate Ayn Rand.
Rand didn't even accept the NAP.

>>51664489
>none of you understand modern monetary theory lol

>MMT
>Understanding

Pick one

>>51664541
>Holy shit strawman harder.
It's literally not, he even attacked Hayek on the idea of private non-gold pegged currencies

https://books.google.ca/books?id=e5G13fmGBpsC&pg=PA205&lpg=PA205&dq=%22opened+the+Pandora%27s+Box+of+money-crankism.%22&source=bl&ots=-fb5sZ2NTQ&sig=ACfU3U1n0jZuXnaeSmIDnOu3zHZPFmb3Cg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi84s-547LkAhXmmeAKHbTpAL8Q6AEwCXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22opened%20the%20Pandora%27s%20Box%20of%20money-crankism.%22&f=false

>>51664591
someone who posts wojaks on the internet has no place talking about education

>>51664524
it makes sense. multiple central banks have ADMITTED directly that money is created endogenously.

>>51664608
if true, rothbard was wrong on this particular point
there are general slight disagreements within austrian econ circles

>>51662687
imagine being this retarded and thinking that the money supply is the only factor in determining inflation

>>51662544
And what do you propose as a store of value?
>inb4 Marxist LTV autism

>>51664704
>and thinking that the money supply is the only factor in determining inflation
Increasing the money supply is the literal definition of inflation.
I think you may be confusing inflation with price increases. Inflation(money printing) is primarily the cause of price increases, but not the main cause.

>another ancap debate thread
I'm an ancap as well but this is a waste of time. I don't know what it is about newer gen ancaps but they have a capacity for lengthy pointless debates that go one forever. I miss when all the ancaps I knew were dale gribble types who would just call you a pussy for wanting to give the state money and move on.

>>51664608
Rothbard had lot of stuff wrong, like about buying children. If people think buying children is wrong, there is no buying children, ANCAP or not. Rothbard ultimately ignored that any society will ultimately consist of arbitrarity that will be based on culture, religion etc.

>>51664782
no it actually isn't, you literally don't understand your own economists. Inflation is increased circulation of money per unit good or service. There is more that goes into that than the money supply. You have just exposed how little you actually know about economics.

go read friedman. your own guys disagree with u

>>51664654
it's not a slight difference, Mises/Rothbard were explicate on 100% full reserve banking being necessary... the second payments are outside that system or you introduce multiple "reserves" all their formal logic starts breaking down

>>51664782
Sorry but most people only care about the price of things they're buying so definitionally they won't care about your definition or academic arguments over the price level

>>51664784
>you are pussy for giving money to state
>and now I will explain you how much of a pussy you are

>>51664704
Inflation ia made when there's too much printing and low demand

>>51664828
inflation is caused when the monetary supply increases in the economy aren't offset by a corresponding increase in the supply of goods and services, or when the monetary supply stays the same, and the supply of good and services decreases or demand increases. it's pretty basic actually but you people ignore some of the important finer meanings of this point.

>>51664793
>no it actually isn't,
Yes, yes it is.
Just because keynesian academics changed the definition in the 20th century doesn't change this
>You have just exposed how little you actually know about economics.
Says the retard who doesn't know what the definition of inflation is.

>go read friedman. your own guys
>friedman
>our own guys
holy shit, you're actually retarded HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>51664782
To be fair I dislike austrian definition of inflation, because it is something that does not really tell you any info
>There is 2% inflation defined by austrian economy
>Ok what should I do? Should I get rid of cash or hold?
>Dunno

>>51664864
it's the basic monetary equation for inflation, and even if it wasn't then your definition would be basically meaningless for the real economy. That is how people ACTUALLY USE the word inflation here in the real world.

>>51664885
>>Ok what should I do? Should I get rid of cash or hold?
"Inflation" and increase in overall prices should be different concepts and I think they are according to austrians
I didn't read enough austrian econ to know.

>>51664909
depends on the austrian - as much as they'd like you to believe they're a cohesive unit (pretty funny for self-proclaimed individualists) they have plenty disagreements and most their points are semantic manipulation as ur seeing here.

>>51664922
>Nooooo you are not legit you have different opinions

We are most cohesive group, just look at /pol/ and tell me libertarians are less cohesive than commies or conservatives

>>51664994
you are schizoid sheeples licking the nicotine laced boots of billionaires hoping for a dopamine hit even though in the long term it will kill u

>>51665043
Found the /pol/tard, whole MMT was created and central banking system is in place to benefit the billionaires, thats why we still have inflation, because oligarchs want their cheap money a FED cant hike.

You know what, I dont dislike you for being envious or stupid, I dislike you for being being the exact thing you hate.

>>51665108
You're trying really hard to sound epic and special but not making any intelligent points, you just sound like a drama queen.

high interest benefits bankers retard

>>51665108
>economic theory claims we should tax billionaires to reduce inflation instead of giving them free money via higher interest payments

>"Ur in the pocket of billionaires"

>>51665043
>you are schizoid sheeples licking the nicotine laced boots of billionaires
Nigger, you're literally advocating we print trillions of dollars and give it to billionaires.
We're telling you to stop this.
Billionaires wouldn't exist if not for the central banks.

>>51665134
>>51665175
printing unlimited free money to boost stock and housing prices gives them far more money than muh higher interest rates do

>>51665134
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH you live in the fantasy world you retard

>>51665175
>only banks are rich

>>51665108
>whole MMT was created and central banking system is in place to benefit the billionaires
So it didn't benefit governments and just billionaires? Most lolberts claim the problem is government not the rich. Anyways floating exchange rates became the norm because Milton Friedman [le money supply man] told Nixon it'd be a good idea.

>thats why we still have inflation, because oligarchs want their cheap money a FED cant hike.
That doesn't follow at all. The Fed can and is increasing rates and most oligarchs aren't doves?
Anyways you could abolish the Fed and let rates freely float and MMT would still hold as long as the government is a monopolist and spends/taxes in their own monopoly currency.

>>51665361
The fed should be abolished and so should ALL government spending.
we literally don't need them

>>51665430
If you try to make Americans directly pay the full costs for driving on roads you'll have a second American revolution

>>51665361
>So it didn't benefit governments and just billionaires?
Thats literaly the same group of people, this system cannot exist without government because noone would accept their toilet paper otherwise. Government control the police to keep you an obedient goy and their pals are making bank by stealing from your pocket directly

>that doesn't follow at all
It does, look at the History of FED, Nixon deposed chair of FED that was trying to fight inflation with hikes, because Wallstreet did not like that. He got his man there to start the printers > inflation went over 10%. It took a long time to fix it, Volcker had to do it and he had to be clever about it because hikes would not come through, so he used a little trick and let banks to make their own interest rate (essentialy he left it to market)

Powell is the same story, he was put there to start printers for Trump, and now when he started doing the hikes, you can already see Wallstreet screaming. Its very likely he is not going to be chair for long.

>>51665517
it would be far cheaper than paying taxes

>>51665555
Checked

>>51665542
>Thats literaly the same group of people
Praxeologically than a lolbert society would have to be poor and prevent wealth accumulation or the rich would establish a government.

>look at the History of FED
Well most of the history of the Fed the dollar was pegged to gold so things were different. Anyways you said oligarchs want cheap money and the fed can't hike but that doesn't seem true since the fed has and is hiking

>>51665555
Not for most rural retards and even suburban retards

>>51665227
no

>>51665247
wrong

>>51665249
false

>>51665281
banks hold most bonds


you people suffer from pretty bad dunning kruger effect for folks who've never read anything about this subject in your lives.

>>51665911
bootlicker

>>51662266

>>51665941
says the person who wants to give rich ppl the opportunity to buy everything by causing a massive power vacuum

>>51666039
>says the person who wants to give rich ppl the opportunity to buy everything
what? lmao
I want them to have less money, meaning they couldn't buy as much stuff. I want more competition.

>>51665911
i'm not the same anon but easy credit and ZIRP policies give FAR more money to bankers because new money is created when banks give out loans. you're only semi-right if you're talking about hyperinflation-level interest rates - high double digits or triple digits or more.
even a 10 or 20% interest rate isn't shit for bankers if the reserve requirement is 0% as it's been since 2020. banks can literally loan out 100% of their cash reserves today, which in turn creates new money.
that's how fractional reserve banking works. banks loan out someone's $10000 savings while telling them it's still there, creating new units of currency in the process.
this is how credit expands and it's the only way new money is ever created. money is debt and debt is money.
have a good one anon

>>51666024
QE has nothing to do w MMT

the austrian fantasy about the monetary system is delusional, there has been no historical society in which barter was ever the primary form of exchange. anthropology proves this.

>>51666056
>get rid of the natural monopoly on currency
>bezos immediately institutes amazonbux

>demands u pay amazonbux as a tax for engaging in amazon corp activities

>now u have a monetary system bc ur reality requires you to acquire amazonbux , you are now unemployed!

>>51665848
>Praxeologically than a lolbert society would have to be poor and prevent wealth accumulation or the rich would establish a government.

You need power, not money to estabilish government. As long as you are having restaurant chani selling burgers, you have NO power. In the end why do you think those classical liberals written the right to carry arms in constitution. To distribute power. What happened is that retards simply sold their power away, and obviously lolbert society cant work with majority of people having slave mentality.

>Well most of the history of the Fed the dollar was pegged to gold so things were different

Yeah, and it was Nixon again who unpegged the gold standard. Why? So he could print money. To benefit who? Well not the workers who were worse and worse of.

Powell rised rates, but not enough and look at this, looks like Powell is in trouble >>51660261 Next FED chair is going to pivot. And inflation will spike again. Its Volcker 2.0 or inflationary death spiral

>>51666103
>>bezos immediately institutes amazonbux
>Almost nobody uses it because it's backed by nothing.
>amazon loses a bunch of money

>>demands u pay amazonbux as a tax for engaging in amazon corp activities
>the state or polycentric legal order arrest amazon for violating the NAP

>>now u have a monetary system bc ur reality requires you to acquire amazonbux , you are now unemployed!
Leftist strawman versions of ancap are so hilariously wrong hahahaha

>>51666059
Yee banking is endogenous and they have admitted as much directly. But when a private bank (an agent of the government) lends to the government this is not competing with their loans to the private sector- the money is not IN the private sector which means it does not affect the private sector. this is not real debt because as you said yourself the money is just moved from one side of the balance sheet to the other between two parties.

If the government takes on a surplus, the private sector is in a deficit. If the government takes on a deficit, the private sector is in a surplus. That's really what it comes down to.

Fundamentally, interest rates provide income to people who lend. The people who lend are the people who have. What MMT ppl want is to use deflationary spending and fiscal policy to directly suck liquidity out of the economy. Empirically there is no good evidence of a clear relation between interest rates and inflation - if ever, it's a lagging indicator and highly regressive.

have nice day

>>51666131
it's backed by the fact that they for you to acquire it in order to participate in society. You don't understand the basics of monetary systems.

>>51666131
Money now would be worthless if you weren't taxed. Taxation is the basis that gives money value and for you to require monetary employment. How do u not get this?

>>51666200
>it's backed by the fact that they for you to acquire it in order to participate in society
What? lol But you don't.
There are a million different private currencies out there. Just because amazon made a shitcoin, doesn't mean people have to use it.
The best currency would win, not whatever amazon makes.

>You don't understand the basics of monetary systems.
Fucking LMAO you're the communist who thinks amazon could magically monopolize currency.

>>51666232
>Money now would be worthless if you weren't taxed.
Good. The USD should die.
>Taxation is the basis that gives money value
It really isn't. It's only part of the equation.

> How do u not get this?
You can't even speak english.
Currencies have existed without states and taxation countless times.
There goes your arugment.

>>51666200
>I cant exist in society if I dont use amazon

>>51666245
If I prevent you from using amazon.com without paying me amazonbux, you are monetarily unemployed. And it's pretty easy to implement once you take out the monopoly on currency (government)

Would purging trannies help the US like purging the Jews helped Germany?

>>51666264
>Currencies have existed without states and taxation countless times.

False. There has been no society where there has not been a central body governing distribution of a fundamental resource.

>>51666326
>If I prevent you from using amazon.com without paying me amazonbux
Why would amazon do that? They would lose a fuckton of business by preventing their customers from using any currency they want.
I'm not even american and I can use many currencies right now to buy stuff on amazon.

>And it's pretty easy to implement once you take out the monopoly on currency (government)
Oh god you're fucking dumb.

>>51666347
>There has been no society where there has not been a central body governing distribution of a fundamental resource.

French Acadia
Many areas of the American Midwest during 1800s.
Cospaia 400 years
Free Frisia 700 years
Neutral Moresnet 100 years
Ancient Ireland 2000 years
Medieval Iceland 400 years
African Tribes using the Xeer legal system to this day
The San
Zomia current day population: 150 million
Cheran Mexico current day

>>51666328
>all strong man dead
>1 generation of soviet rape babies

No, that was a dead end

>>51666371
none of those were/are barter societies like you people claim

>How can you claim that we live in a post-economic-fundamentals society?
Bold of you to assume that there are any fundamentals to begin with. Economics has always been more art than science.

>>51666352
you are calling me dumb when you are saying something like 'why would someone want to force me to use their currency' despite being a lolbertarian

>>51666326
But you dont have to use Amazon

>>51666428
bet you have autism

>>51666416
But how will they force you

>>51666395
we never claimed they were barter societies

you're one of the dumbest people I've ever argued with

>>51666416
>you are calling me dumb
because you fucking are, holy shit lmao

>'why would someone want to force me to use their currency'
Yes. Why?
They would lose money if they restricted trade by only trading with a smaller group of people.
It's common sense.

>>51666454
the comparative accumulation of capital is a natural phenomena. investors get what the spend and workers spend what they get. if it wasnt the case then people wouldnt invest.

>>51666458
>cant understand why governments want people to only use government money despite being a lolbertarian

>>51666458
>why would amazon want to control people

and you call ME dumb

>>51666527
>>cant understand why governments want people to only use government money
holy shit you're retarded
I understand why governments want this. It makes sense for them.
It makes absolutely no sense for a private company to want this.
Why would they willingly LOSE MONEY by restricting who they could trade with?
Answer the question.

>>51666543
>>why would amazon want to control people
They wouldn't be ABLE to control people using this method lmao.
It's like you're saying "amazon would love to be able to cast magic spells on people, so that means that they WILL DO THIS"
>and you call ME dumb
because you fucking ARE HAHAHAHA

Inflation is a good thing for poor people and middle class. It gives negotiating power to them. It's bad for big business because it makes forecasting harder.

>>51666575
>having your wages and savings destroyed to benefit the state benefits poor people

in a just world, you people would be strung up on lamp posts

>>51666490
Yeah, but that still does not explain how amazon will force you to use amazonbux. Like, amazon is only one of hundreds of big corpos and they obviously cant all make their own currency (because it would be chaos), and at the same time not a single corpo provides all the services (they have to trade between each other). And each owner of each company wants to be the top dog (competition). And they become top dog by making consoomer satisfied (you). So if you dont like idea on amzonbux, why worry

>>51666123
>You need power, not money to estabilish government
And money usually can safely buy power so that's not generally a issue.

>In the end why do you think those classical liberals written the right to carry arms in constitution. To distribute power.
It definitely wasn't to distribute power, people tried to use arms against the government and revolt against taxes already during the whiskey rebellion but were put down. Anyways that's mostly academic since firearms aren't the most advanced weapon system anymore.

>Yeah, and it was Nixon again who unpegged the gold standard. Why? So he could print money. To benefit who? Well not the workers who were worse and worse of.
Nixon didn't want to let Europe and Japan drain the US gold reserve, simple as

>Powell rised rates, but not enough and look at this, looks like Powell is in trouble >>51660261 Next FED chair is going to pivot. And inflation will spike again. Its Volcker 2.0 or inflationary death spiral
ok you can claim all that but it's not related to OP and that's conventional macroeconomics, MMT claims monetary policy and interest rates isn't primary... you can claim the next fed chair will be a political hack and do what the president wants but it won't be because the wealthy are crying for lower rates

>>51664608
>It's literally not, he even attacked Hayek on the idea of private non-gold pegged currencies

>a bizarre scheme of private competing currencies

Within a mathematical framework binding them to a rule structure that's basically what crypto is

>>51666575
>Its good for poor people
They will get government gibs so technicaly yes
>Its good for middle class
Uhm, no, they are people who cant take gigantic loans and their savings are being eaten

>>51664762
>a store of value?

Gold is most stable, land is most useful, BTC is safest from theives

>>51662474
>you actually can just fake it till you make it.
as long as people start killing each other overseas that is.

>>51665134
>high interest benefits bankers retard
You need to think in terms of incentives and government interventions to understand the net effect of interest rates

>>51666571
seethe

>>51665430
>The fed should be abolished and so should ALL government spending.

Ugh we need military and fire brigade and police dipshit

>>51666631
>And money usually can safely buy power so that's not generally a issue.
Depends, mercenaries are always shit compared to well motivated fighters

>In the end why do you think those classical liberals written the right to carry arms in constitution. To distribute power.

Similarly, as another example, Massachusetts’s Declaration of Rights from 1780 provided:

The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

So decentralization

>Nixon didn't want to let Europe and Japan drain the US gold reserve, simple as

And how did that happen, how did those extra notes representing nonexistent gold come to be? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>you can claim the next fed chair will be a political hack and do what the president wants but it won't be because the wealthy are crying for lower rates

I claim that yes, and you did not provide any alternative explanation so I might as well continue consider myself being right

>>51662474

dollar is not destroy anything, inflation and recession is destroying everything

>>51666859
>Depends, mercenaries are always shit compared to well motivated fighters
And getting well motivated fighters requires propaganda

>So decentralization
It wasn't "decentralizing" rule and decision making just responsibility in defense of the government, the idea people were going to be allowed to overthrow government if they disagreed with policy was never serious, policy making was supposed to be secured in more responsible hands and not the masses

>And how did that happen, how did those extra notes representing nonexistent gold come to be? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
They didn't want to allow gold to freely flow out, that was always the issue... America was always very protectionist and not going to defend the gold standard if it came at their own expense

>>51662266
this, but put von mises on the left side

Consider it the current reality and not an ideal state to strive for. Currency often ends up like this.

>>51666575
>Inflation is a good thing for poor people and middle class. It gives negotiating power to them

What?

>>51662474
"reserve requirements" are in addition to "capital requirements." 0% reserve doesn't mean unlimited lending, when you have other restrictions.

USD has some of the LEAST WORST inflation, but it is still high, compared to places like UK, EU, Argentina, etc.

>>51662687
This honestly.
Governments are a cancer on the face of humanity, think of every bad thing that happened to your country, every war every economic collapse, mass migration was caused by or enabled by the government.

>>51663743
Exactly, printing money is fine if it's used for something that increases value. Black history month, drag queen story hour and welfare don't increase value.
The infrastructure crumbles while the production was outsourced to places like China and people wonder why the West is sinking like a stone.

>>51662266
where is the inflation that resulted from quantitative easing? are you going to tell me the inflation that just occured is a result of monetary policy decisions made 10+ years ago, and not a shock to energy supply?

>>51666830
you're wrong lol

>>51663083
Why's Benjamin Franklin on there he didn't do shit.

>>51662266
Pretty much every example cited for money printing = inflation was actually the result of an underlying collapse in the real economy. Weimar Germany was invaded by France. Zimbabwe ethnically cleansed its farmers. Venezuela commie'd its economy. The recent inflation is clearly due to COVID and retarded lockdowns destroying the economy and supply-chain. Should we forget about you goldtards screaming about hyper-inflation throughout the entire 2010's? How's that silver investment going for you?

>>51670826
>Zimbabwe ethnically cleansed its farmers
>Venezuela commie'd its economy
wow almost as if government retardation is the root cause of inflation

>>51668324
Brazil had deflation for the past two months, and it's inflation is lower than the US. The west is done.

>>51670849
The government doing something isn't magically good or bad. Commies have fucked up plenty of economies. But every industrialized country did so through state-intervention, including the United States.

>>51662266
They fucked up when they gave stimmies and PPP loans to poor people instead of limiting it to the rich. There's your explanation.

>>51664782
Its money supply AND the velocity of money, famalam. Both of those two things working in concert. Only focusing on one or the other instead of both together will fuck you up.

>>51662544
t. Missed out on 2017 and 2020

>>51666072
someone has to buy all the bonds((debt)) they issue you fucking moron. who else could buy an endless amount of treasury debt

I'm consistently surprised that no historian decided to tell the economists championing MTT that they just reinvented chartalism.

>>51665555
kek speaks