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100% of exchanges controlled by the US and other governments. 0% of pow being wasted energy since 100% of it is going to securing the network and decentralization.
This is the dead of ethereum, I have no idea how people are able to act smug at minerfags, they were the one that fuled their entire pseudo ponzi, now it's just a real ponzi. They even burn fees lmao, for what fucking reason other than price go up did they do 1559 and PoS
This is fine
>>51452196the memes are true
>>51450958downgrade to shitcoin successful
>>51450958>B-BUT THE ENVIRONMENT HAS BEEN SAVED
>>51450958China controls all crypto’s except Ethereum. Expect to see a lot of anti Ethereum as the CCP uses its ASIC miners to endlessly spam this board. If you’re actually interested in crypto, Ethereum is your best bet as it’s properly backed and it’s devs are doxxed. It has a proper white page and it’s goals and growth are clearly stated. You won’t find these things with CCP coins. Ethereum is a stable coin designed to actually be useful. It’s not a hedge for the Chinese and Russian military, unlike bitcoin and it’s forks.
>>51452536
>>51452536>saves 0.02% of the environmentgreat job! I love how vitalik posted fake information on twitter saying it's 0.20%
>>51452703kekI'll stick with my based USA Chad corporation Ripple thank you.I don't like Russians or Furries.
ETH 51% itself, it's over. They worked out the math on POS back in 2015 lmao centralization is guaranteed over a long enough time period
>>51452703mETH heads are something else
>>51452196what % of pow blocks are produced by the top mining pools? >>51450958>>51452156>>51452386>>51452536>>51452907>>51453022>>51453432>>51453534>>51453549late adopter maxibaggie cope
>>51453610"late adopter"Why would I adopt this JPM controlled shbitcoin?The tech itself is absolute SHIT, compared to some of the newer coins, seems like mETHheads are doing great now, as their shitcoin plummets after the "bullish merge" LMAO
>>51453610If a group controls 51% of hash you can always fork the chain, also this is pretty much impossible to do as you would need the largest pools to cooperate and brick their own chain.You may say this is similar to PoS in that the largest validators could unite to commit a 51% attack if they had enough of a stake, but the difference is it’s easier to control PoS because once you have the coins, it’s over, you own that power as long as you hold the coins, with PoW, hashrate is in flexible supply, you can always add or takeaway hash to determine the degree of decentralization.Also PoW coins took actual work to make, which contributes to their value, PoS tokens are literally pulled out of the creators ass and delegated to his chums, like some kind of aristocracy.
>>51453755Pretty good explanation
>From one day to the other, ETH went from being of the most decentralized coins to one the most centralized >Proof of StakeMore like Proof of Shit, lol!
>>51453755Checked
>>51450958S-should I move my contracts then to ada?
>>51452196>>51452210>>51452156>>51450958>>51452703>>51453755Wait until Fed banks enter the arena (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi). Then the fun begins.
>>51453911All of ETHs value, stems from JPM and jewscahs lol
>>51453684low iq>>51453755 an attacker does not need to physically control 51% of hashpower to fuck with PoW, as block rewards decrease it becomes more vulnerable to adversarial incentives offered by an attacker to harvest hashes from rational miners seeking the best yield. claiming that is easier to obtain 51% of PoS stake than 51% of hashpower is also completely unfounded (show your work, don't pull cope narratives out of your ass). Furthermore, saying "it's over" in that unlikely scenario is also ridiculous, given that the honest 49% could simply fork away from the bad actor and make the controlling 51% stake completely worthless, permanently. >Also PoW coins took actual work to make, which contributes to their valuethis is a logical fallacy, work does not equal value, a ditch dug by hand for 10 hours is not more valuable than a ditch dug in 30 minutes by a backhoe>PoS tokens are literally pulled out of the creators ass and delegated to his chums, like some kind of aristocracy.I get that this ebin democracy bullshit will be your narrative now (which is hilarious given that coiners have literally always styled themselves as cryptobarons ruling their normoid slaves from their citadels) but PoS is inherently more democratic and accessible to random people to join and develop versus the imposition of needing to buy and maintain hardware devoted to heavy computation and the inherent regional iniquities of energy costs
>>51450958Right because mining pools where so much better
>>51454073So what happens when the primary stake holders start to censor transactions because OFAC told them to?
>>51450958but muh environment!!!
Imagine believing in man made climate change. kek
>>51454073Wrong, you do need to own 51% of hash to 51% attack PoW, that’s literally a requirement. As for the block reward, maybe long term that could be an issue for something like Bitcoin, but it won’t be for something like Doge which doesn’t have a halveninf mechanism and can pretty much be sustained through block rewards in perpetuity.Also, again, owning 51% of the hash is harder than owning 51% of stake, because hashrate isn’t constant and not something any single party can control, but coin ownership is something that can be controlled as any dedicated attacker can just amass coins and there is nothing any other party could do to stop them.You can hardfork PoS all you want, but the fact is it’s still harder to attack PoW because it’s security is based on hash, not on token ownership.Work does equal value. I can’t just whisk a ducking bitcoin out of my ass, it doesn’t matter if it was mined with a laptop in 2010 or an asic farm in 2022, it still took work to create the coin, it’s valuable partially because it cannot be counterfeited in any way, YOU MUST mine to mint new bitcoin, there is no other way of creating it.Meanwhile PoS you literally just printing tokens in your glorified excel database and then distributing shit to all your friends and then guaranteeing them power in perpetuity to control the network.With PoW, early adopters are rewarded for bootstrapping the network by getting the lion shares of early coins, but this has zero impact on the actual function and governance of the blockchain. They still had to invest in the hardware and electricity to produce those coins and secure the network. With PoS you have to do fucking nothing, it’s fundamentally worthless.You honestly sound like a massive fag.
holy shit i love ETC now
>>51452536just wait for governments to ban PoW and big companies to stop using PoW for green washing concern.
>>51454073>this is a logical fallacy, work does not equal value, a ditch dug by hand for 10 hours is not more valuable than a ditch dug in 30 minutes by a backhoeNo but socially necessary labor does. And machines do not create value which is why it's cheaper to do things with a backhoe than an army of laborers
>>51454073
>>51450958Wow not enough replies to your copypastes in all the threads you spammed it in, so you have to make your own?I don't even disagree with the point you're making but this is pathetic faggot behavior
>>51454560You misunderstood, I don't give a fuck to get replies, because the fact the replies do not exist means the arguments don't.
>>51452703>China controls all crypto’s except Ethereumretard
>>51454472Also there are only ~13,000,000 staked ETH, so it would take ~6.5 to 13 million stake ETH to 51% attack the network, that is waaay cheaper than buying enough infrastructure to control 51% of the hash. An adversary could even hedge their attack by shorting an equivalent amount of ETH that they used in an attack, so even if they lose their stake to a hardfork, they would still make money and completely ruin trust in the network.
>>51454641So what’s going on in China, are people just faulting the mining ban there? Looks like it.
>>51454472>Wrong, you do need to own 51% of hashWrong, you need much less than that. it's actually like 30%
>>51454652The most interesting thing about all this shit, is how people still consider infallible gurus a few brainlet devs that happened to be at the right time and at the right place. Do Kwon was nothing compared to what might happen.
>>51454674>So what’s going on in Chinait's all illegal mining
>>51454738based
>>51450958does ehterum move to proof of stake mean that it needs chainlink?
>>51452196Can anybody explain flashbots? Aren't those supposed to make transactions inevitable even if the majority of bosses are malicious. How does that work?
>>51454121The most commonly debunked fallacy. Pools are just random Joes mining; they can change pool or even asset in seconds; nobody controls what algorithm they use.pos is coins locked on-chain; most of them by known registered exchanges and other entities; all of them directly ordered by governments if needed.
anyone got those eth is pre mined screen cap?
What happens to ETH when Vitalik has a stroke because of the clot shot? Will it still be numbers-go-up technology?
>>51454956he works hard, for that to not be needed, and it to die on its own
>>51454889No but I have Vitalik saying PoS is shit: https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/05/stake> proof-of-stake systems are ultimately permanent nobilities where the members of the genesis block allocation always have the ultimate say.> it also gives the nobility a permanent profit-making privilege, and not just voting rights> proof-of-stake chains are completely self-referentialand so on.
>>51453911>POS>print infinite money and not have to use real resources to create new money>shitcoiners think this is a good thing cause muh environment
>>51455003>Ultimately, this boils down to a philosophical question: exactly how much does decentralization mean to us, and how much are we willing to pay for it? Remember that centralized databases, and even quasi-centralized ones based on Ripple consensus, are free. If perfect decentralization is indeed worth $100 billion, then proof of work is definitely the right way to go. But arguably that is not the case. I like how he admits he centralized it.
>>51452156the real ponzi was JP Morgan being the market maker in the beginning, spoofing and guaranteeing buy/sell orders when there were no real participants. It's a open secret as all great scams started out this way: Amazon, Alibaba, the Fed, etc.
>>51455067> I like how he admits he centralized it.He floats the idea that there is a middle ground, that one can achieve a careful balance between centralization and decentralization, when the reality is that a system will always tend towards one or the other extreme.The whole article is a roast of PoS very carefully worded to make it seem like there is hope of one day finding a solution to all the problems associated with it...
>>51454860watching the ETH merge stream was blackpilling. a bunch of soiboy canadian faggots are running this show.
>>51453755all fiat currency are in principle fraudulent when they dilute the capital stock without adding goods or services. POS is just more of the same shit.
>>51455154The fact he's into some legitimate lunacy, e.g. believing humans may live literally forever in his lifetime, I'm not very confident about anything he claims.
>>51450958Why have people accepted calling the PoS fork ETH, and the real chain ETHW? We should have the PoW chain be ETH and the PoS fork be ETHS
this is it folks, your final warning.you're tied to train tracks and you never know when the train will come. when it comes, and the moment the US decides to censor a transaction on ethereum, this shit is over
>>51455218because it influences how you feel about it
>>51452156Not a Ponzi when people actually use the network, the native currency has demand and value based off people actually using it rather than stockpiling and sitting on it because there's nothing to do on read ghost chains with 5 transactions per day.
>>51453755>You may say this is similar to PoS in that the largest validators could unite to commit a 51% attack if they had enough of a stake, but the difference is it’s easier to control PoS because once you have the coins, it’s overOpposite, actually..Once you have the mining rigs, it's over. Your PoW Network has to change it's consensus to cope. With PoS you just fork away and they literally have nothing but worthless coins they spent billions on.
>>51455218>Why have people accepted calling the PoS fork ETH, and the real chain ETHW?Why? Because Vitalik said so.Having a leader means you don't have to use logic to make decisions.Why do you think they called it "the merge" ?A merge is the exact opposite of a fork. They didn't want people to think of it as being a fork because it didn't suit them. It's purposely misleading.
>>51455218You need to get a team of competent devs on the PoW form first. They couldn't even pick a proper chainID or have a block scanner set up in time.
>>51452196The fucking irony of the situationDo these faggots ever just ask themselves where is my crypto being stored?Coinbase only has this amount because of the retards giving them the money to do so. Take it out of the exchange and put it in a trezor or wallet Jesus Christ
>>51452536mfw i'm still mining
>>51455437>Once you have the mining rigs, it's over.Once you have the coin supply, it's over.>Your PoW Network has to change it's consensus to cope.You PoS Network has to change its consensus to cope.>With PoS you just fork away and they literally have nothing but worthless coins they spent billions on.With PoW you just fork away and they literally have nothing but worthless asics they spent billions on.Everybody with asics would get rekt, which is great, bitcoin was intended to be mined on your home computer's cpu anyway. We should have forked to an asic resistant algo a long time ago, because if it happens now the hashrate will drop so much that it will be a looong two weeks before the difficulty adjusts and blocks are mined regularly again.
>>51453755based>>51453610kill yourself
>>51450958e
>>51455469>Take it out of the exchange and put it in a trezor or wallet Jesus ChristToo complicated for normies. That's why we can't have nice things.
>>51453755Checked. Glad I only did a test stake with one ETH on Coinbase. They promised me interest, they promised me it would automatically convert to ETH2, and they promised me I could reap the rewards and trade once the merge was complete.Imagine my fucking surprise when the fags now only let you wrap it and trade their fake cETH or whatever the fuck that is. Basically those absolute shysters are going to keep their 30% of the market staked and use their customers for liquidity.Glad I kept most of my shit in my own wallet. Never trust a centralized exchange. They exist to enrich themselves alone.
>>51453861This. Not amused.
>>51455618You can't take it out of Coinbase. It's still locked. You can only trade their wrapped version of ETH.
>>51455218the real chain is and always has been ETC, but most people don't even know that. ETH is the fork.
>>51455444ETH is inherently centralized. There is no competition for the best idea and the best form of currency when a messiah can just veto it
>>51454472When will you dumb shits realize that you can buy mining rigs just as you can buy stake? You think the extra effort of paying a company to manage it will stop banks?On the other hand: When someone runs a majority-attack on pos, you can fork it and exclude the bad actors. With pow the dishonest machines can be just reused to attack the fork, thus gaining you nothing.Your turn.
>>51450958Yeah, guys, it is literally over for ethereum. I got out of it before the merge and that’s that. Investing in successor coins.
>>51455469I literally cannot afford to, too expensive.
>>51455602No though. You are literally just spouting nonsense
>>51455984And I bet you that they will never list the ETH PoW chain just so they can dump those coins and make a sweet profit instead of crediting them to their user's accounts.
>>51456239>On the other hand: When someone runs a majority-attack on pos, you can fork it and exclude the bad actors. With pow the dishonest machines can be just reused to attack the fork, thus gaining you nothing.Explain to me in details the mechanism for excluding the bad actors on PoS and why the same mechanism or another mechanism is not possible on PoW. I suggest you start by explaining what it is the bad actors are doing. Good luck.
>>51456239except to 51% eth right now you’d only need ~6.5 million ETH, and you could hedge that attack with a short position so you would gain something for bricking the network.How much would it cost to buy enough hash to 51% BTC? Good luck with that.
>>51456662The only way to do that on PoW is to change the hashing algorithm which punishes ALL miners simultaneously, not just the bad actors. There is no way to laser-target bad actors on PoW.
>>51456662Think for a minute for yourself. You know which coins where used in the attack, so you void them in the fork. With pow see >>51456813>>51456750>cover with shortsThat’s at least a good attempt. Although my intuition tells me me that „shorting something, buying it up and running it into the ground“ is not sustainable; maybe it is with leverage. Would need find counterparties though, no?
>>51450958Bullish for LUNC
>>51456750And the „bitcoin big“ argument is such crap, would almost consider it a troll if I would not know maxis to be serious. What if - we instead made some better tech big? One supporting smart contracts for example? It’s like saying „everyone is using snail mail, this arpanet shit will never catch on“. You are like my boomer cousin who sends me the same generic WhatsApp invite via SMS each year because his ant brain can’t handle the idea of switching out a technology for better one.Btw ETH stinks as well. Utxo is goat. But I said too much already.
>>51455602>Everybody with asics would get rekt, which is great, bitcoin was intended to be mined on your home computer's cpu anyway. We should have forked to an asic resistant algo a long time ago, because if it happens now the hashrate will drop so much that it will be a looong two weeks before the difficulty adjusts and blocks are mined regularly again.that happened in 2017 dumbass
>>51452196NO REFUNDS
>>51456262I hope the baby is black.
>>51454472>dedicated attacker can just amass coins and there is nothing any other party could do to stop them.Thats literally incorrect. The attacker can be forked out. Its the primary defense mechanism of POS. To ignore it just proves you have room temp IQ
>>51455385>Get a load of this Goy
>>51454889
>>51455444>Why? Because Vitalik said so.>Having a leader means you don't have to use logic to make decisions.You're in a cult anon
>>51457296retard, there is nothing stopping someone from buying coins>let’s just slash and double play this global mission-critical super computer bro, what could go wrong!Meanwhile PoW Bitcoin has never been 51% attacked in its entire history,
>>51452196they need to make it so the ammount of eth you have isn't a lottery ticket. no matter how much you have you get one ticket and thats it. otherwise this shit is just like PoW with only a handful of early adopters getting rich and running everything.
>>51457366most of those are probably exchanges, but still such distribution, much decentralized!
>>51452156no pow coin has any valueminers dump on people, people get nothing back
Oh wow, ETH goes PoS and the SEC immediately announces PoS are probably securities contracts. Right on que.CoinDesk: SEC's Gensler Signals Extra Scrutiny for Proof-of-Stake Cryptocurrencies: Report.https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/09/15/secs-gensler-signals-extra-scrutiny-for-proof-of-stake-cryptocurrencies-report/
It's backed by nothing now. Unfortunately eip1559 was the last thing Ethereum needed. Not this POS that will just keep selling pressure. It's unbelievable that they are genius on making a merge but fucking retarded with the tokenomics
>>51457564>miners dump on people, people get nothing backminers dumping is a good thing, you are retarded if you think centralizing token supply to wealthy people is desired
>>51456813>There is no way to laser-target bad actors on PoWHow come? How does one laser-targets on PoS and why is that impossible on PoW?
>>51456889>You know which coins where used in the attack, so you void them in the forkWhat prevents us from doing the same thing on PoW?
>>51454652>so it would take ~6.5 to 13 million stake ETH to 51% attack the network, that is waaay cheaper than buying enough infrastructure to control 51% of the hashNo, it cost between $1B and $2B to fully take over bitcoin.>>51455225once american government decides to force block generators to enforce sanctions bitcoin will fall because it has no defense.Ethereum will fork away.>>51455602You can't fork away in PoW like that. Asic miners can rent gpus and mine at a loss to kill any fork. Which is what would happen.>>51457645this is literally the only good point about pow, but the distribution has mostly ended in btc too anyway.>>51457649because every validator has a different address and it takes months (if not years) to move millions of staked eth to other accountsin PoW, all hashrate is fungible, you can't just ban some specific asic
>>51457670>No, it cost between $1B and $2B to fully take over bitcoin.moron
>>51457682calculate it yourself.those asics didn't come from the sky. Somebody bought them.
>>51457670>once american government decides to force block generators to enforce sanctions bitcoin will fall because it has no defense.Ethereum will fork away.BTC hashrate is at ATH and mining continues in China despite ban.Meanwhile major exchanges are the biggest validors on ETH, government could crack down instantly and take control of the network.
>>51457712>BTC hashrate is at ATHyes, almost 40% in America.Very close to majority.One executive order and they will be forced to censor whatever.>Meanwhile major exchanges are the biggest validors on ETH, government could crack down instantly and take control of the network.That's not even true. Coinbase is only 14.5%. Lido has global validators.
>>51457690The dynamic you describe has been true for all of Bitcoins history.If it’s that simple, why hasn’t BTC been successfully attacked yet?
>>51455602asic resistance is stupid and defeats the purpose of actual pow.
>>51457747Because it's an irrelevant ponzi. Why would anybody attack btc right now? Literally nothing of importance relies on btc continuing to operate. Attack is indeed too expensive to rob an exchange, which is very hard due to kyc now.Thus there's no military nor a financial motivation.
>>51457742The hashrate will just move from American if that happens, it’s not a big deal. Besides the Chinese still mine it and they have a much more authoritarian government, you are believing memes.
>>51457779It won't move from America because America has cheapest electricity. So non-censoring miners would be outcompeted by censoring miners.What would happen are people gradually accepting 'censoring terrorists' and that would be it.
>>51457779>Besides the Chinese still mine it and they have a much more authoritarian government, you are believing memes.America is much worse at censoring financial stuff globally. China just keeps to itself.
>>51457569Holy fuck. That's the real news.
>>51457798it’s cheaper to attack Ethereum than Bitcoin. sure you can slash but then your mission critical network is fucked.also, less hash means easier to mine, means more profitable to mine with more expensive electricity. again not a big deal if US bans.
>>51457836there's no legal way solo staking in ethereum fits the security definitionhighest risk: staked derivativesmedium risk: DPoSif you have to run a node it's not a security, simpleif you give someone else funds to stake, then maybe>>51457856No, cost of slashed eth in a 2/3 attack would be much higher.>but then your mission critical network is fucked.there would be chaos, but a fork would function again.>again not a big deal if US bans.It won't be a ban, it would be an order forcing censorship of ofac sanctioned addresses and potentially ignoring blocks that break sanctions.Anyway, the threat of slashing is enough. Coinbase already promised to shut down the service if they are forced to censor. Which is the best outcome in that situation. Nobody particularly wants to delete eth staked by random people.
>>51454520just wait for governments to ban PoW good luck with that
>>51457798what do you mean censoring, you mean censoring that one address that did illegal stuff and which will never get reused again? kekalso the censored transaction will end up going through anyway since there are others miners outside the country which aren't censoring it
>>51454840Yes
>>51457670>because every validator has a different address and it takes months (if not years) to move millions of staked eth to other accountsSo the laser-target technique is to target an address?In a PoW 51% attack all the attacker can do is to double-spend coins that they already own. So it would also be possible to "laser-target" their address. Maybe the mechanism for this is not already "built-in" like it is in PoS (where it's needed by design) but nothing prevents good actors from agreeing on freezing or even slashing certain addresses as part of a fork. This way the attacker needs to acquire new coins to continue his attack.Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>51457742>One executive order and they will be forced to censor whatever.>>51457670>once american government decides to force block generators to enforce sanctions bitcoin will fall because it has no defense.Cope. The only chains impervious to that are privacy coins like Monero.
>>51454520>>51457921the entire point of PoW is decentralization, EXACTLY because it would be resistant even to governments attacking it.people have forgotten what the OG devs even tried to do.
>>51457924>what do you mean censoring, you mean censoring that one address that did illegal stuff and which will never get reused again? kekthey can sanction addresses with btc, dunno if any currently are>also the censored transaction will end up going through anyway since there are others miners outside the country which aren't censoring itnot if American miners own >50% and orphan those blocks.>>51457943>Maybe the mechanism for this is not already "built-in" like it is in PoS (where it's needed by design) but nothing prevents good actors from agreeing on freezing or even slashing certain addresses as part of a fork. This way the attacker needs to acquire new coins to continue his attack.I don't understand what do you mean here. You don't need btc to mine btc. Consensus relies on external resources.>>51457973Monero is trivial to destroy in its entirety due to negligible block rewards. Honestly I could afford to do it. It's like people forget those block rewards are supposed to be high.Of course, I have zero financial incentive to do so, but - trivial for any government too.
>>51457907you are seriously underestimating how hard it would be to get enough hash power to 51% attack Bitcoin. It would have happened by now if it was feasible, there is too much money on the line.The problems of PoS extend for beyond adversary attacker resilience.
>>51452156PoW tokens aren't needed. PoS tokens aren't needed either but at least the infrastructure is cheaper. Everything will be PoS in the end.
>>51458030>It would have happened by now if it was feasible, there is too much money on the line.there's no conceivable way to profit from such an attack because no real world economy relies on bitcoin.All you can maybe do is to try to double spend an exchange, which is impossible for billions worth of (eth?) because how do you even withdraw that much? with what btc?No, the only realistic attack is for a non-profit reasons - and realistically it would happen with regulations first, not outright buying.
>>51458030there is too much money not from doing the attack, but from mining with that much power
>>51458027Minero and even BTC get transactions/block rewards wrong. Doge coin has one of the best models I’ve heard of because miners can receive block rewards in perpetuity while keeping transactions fees minimal (enough to prevent denial of service attacks).
>>51458027even if america have more than 50% hashrate is doesn't mean they will censor 100% of transactions
>>51458030btw it's not theory. The guy that 51% etc apparently lost 200k eth (!) on the attempt. It's really, really hard to figure out how to actually profit on a 51% attack right now.If ethereum got tokenized real world assets while on PoW and economies actually started relying on it - then yes, you could eg. censor company's assets and short it on the short market, many possibilities>>51458103it's true, but it means they technically can - one executive order away.Unlike staking, mining on a significant scale can't be hidden.
>>51458027>I don't understand what do you mean here. You don't need btc to mine btc. Consensus relies on external resources.You need btc for a 51% attack, because a 51% attack simply allows you to spend your coins twice. If you don't have coins you can't do an effective 51% attack.If you don't understand that you've just demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about (which we already knew). Congratulations.
>>51457564>no pow coin has any value>>51457765>irrelevant ponzi>>51458027>I could afford to do it.Moron, you're only fooling children with your diversion propaganda. Point is that PoS is centralization; governments being able to order it controlled; your piece of shit violates the entire point of OG devs' work.
>>51458149No, you're thinking of a double spend attack. A 51% attack means you control the chain, a double spend attack is one of ways to utilize that control. You don't need any btc to censor - you just mine blocks without some addresses and orphan blocks that have it.
>>51458160Daily monero block rewards = $60,965.22This is nothing.
>>51458149really? damn you learn something new everyday… I thought a doublespend attack meant the attacker could literally rewind or rewrite any transaction. I didn’t know the attack was limited to just the attackers own coin, doh.
>>51458166And what can you do with a 51% attack when you control the chain? (except double spending)
>>51458196I can prevent whoever I want from making any transactions.For example, I can enforce kyc. If you don't send me your id and register your addresses your transactions are banned.
>>51458166>No, you're thinking of a double spend attack. A 51% attack means you control the chain, a double spend attack is one of ways to utilize that control. You don't need any btc to censor - you just mine blocks without some addresses and orphan blocks that have it.>>51458196I see, so you're saying someone would spend billions just to prevent others to transact (most of the time). Alright. I'm not too worried about that.
>>51458214>I see, so you're saying someone would spend billions just to prevent others to transact (most of the time).The adversary here is US government telling miners to censor eg. Iran, and potentially mining itself to get to >50%This is the single most likely attack.
>>51458194>I didn’t know the attack was limited to just the attackers own coin, doh.Not your keys not your coins.You can't mine a valid block that says you spent someone else's coins if you don't have their private key to sign the transaction.
>>51458229> The adversary here is US governmentwho doesn't need any of that shit to control eth,they can just order the exchanges directly.
>>51458229>The adversary here is US government telling miners to censor eg. Iran, and potentially mining itself to get to >50%>This is the single most likely attack.That's fine then. I can wait until my transaction gets mined. They have to control 99% of the hashrate for it to be annoying (and that means they'd need 100x the current hashrate).
I mean, someone in another thread said it best.With mining pools, these are voluntary collectives where miners pool resources, like a labor union. They are highly liquid and miners can opt to leave pools at any time if the pool starts to misbehave.Compare this to ETH where the largest exchanges and Lido control the lionshare of staked ETH, which are illiquid accounts, you can clearly see there is too much centralization.
>>51453755Note how this post fails to mention slashing to prevent said 51% attacks. Bad actors will lose their coins.
>>51458272American exchanges don't even control enough eth to do that.Even if they did, that would mean a anti-censorship fork.>>51458299no, if you control majority you can orphan blocks of other miners. >50% is enough to force any censorship.
>>51457907>mETHhead logicSolo staking won't/can't be regulated by the SEC. However, every contract will be a security. And, in the near future, with banksters controlling the majority stake, they will censor/regulate everything built on ETH.
>>51455477you're throwing money away, nothing is profitable to mine
>>51458370what do you mean by 'every contract'every smart contract on ethereum? what?
>>51458329> "I only care about American exchanges"Not only that's a silly argument in itself: the US government controls more than its own exchanges and the US government is not the only government in the world either.The worst part is: those are still diversion tactics to the main point; not everyone has 32 eth; and everyone that does have 32 eth: is locked on-chainMiners do not have their wealth locked on chain; they can even switch pool or even coin; your piece of shit violates the OG goal of crypto itself.
>>51458307bro it’s not decentralized, it’s like owning shares in a company, you have control of the network in perpetuity as long as you have your tokens.
>>51458329HAHAHA greedy eth retards will never fork against their own bags. We learned this in the BTC/BCH and ETH/ETC forks. Are you fucking kidding me, look at tornado cash
>>51458426>Are you fucking kidding me, look at tornado cashit's not censored
>>51458432It is literally just mixing your crypto woth tainted coins at this point.Eth and BTC users love censorship. It is easier to shill bags
>>51458386Did you see Gary Gensler's statement? Yes, every L2 is a security even if the US makes ETH a commodity. And ETH has little use case without EVM utilities. As for censoring, if the OFAC tells Coinbase to censor a transaction to North Korea they will censor zee transaction. No one at CB is doing 30 years in the Federal slam on principle. For that matter CB as a stake holder will largely be irrelevant once Fed banks become the primary stake holders.
>>51458329Oh right, I see now. In terms of censorship resistance that's quite a big difference indeed.Ima look into PoS/PoW hybrid chains, maybe they can offer the best of both worlds (assuming what they do is forcing miners to both hash and stake).
>>51458145it doesn't matter if they censor or not, it will go through sooner or later
>>51452196And here's why that's a good thing!
>>51458462ok but how is that relevant. this is completely outside of PoS/PoW>>51458480why would l2 be a security? what does that even mean. L2 doesn't even need a token.>if the OFAC tells Coinbase to censor a transaction to North Korea they will censor zee transactionthe more important part is if they orphan blocks with itan important fact you're missing is that all this staking distribution happened before the tornado sanction, people are much less happy about staking on coinbase now, but can't move until withdrawals
>>51453684You're actually retarded, anon. Or a third worlder/ESL; he was implying you are a bitcuck.
>>51458432>Tornado CashNot censored yet. But OFAC sent the shot across the bow. The creator is in jail pending some unknown charges. The code is now illegal for US users. Now, if OFAC goes to an exchange and does tell them to censor, what's the exchange going to do? Tell the US Government to fuck off? Let me know how that goes.
>>51458526well coinbase sued the us government and promised to shutdown staking if they are forced
>>51458512If eth users aren't livid about TC censorship, they're not going to do shit about staker censorship. They can't do anything to protest but sell.
>>51458536everyone got angry, what do you want people to do exactly? armed revolution?
>>51458512>L2I am talking about every L2 token, like mostly everything built on ETH. And it is a security of the SEC says so. See XRP.
>>51458552No, 10% of eth users who are educated cypherpunks got angry. 90% of eth users who are normalfag speculators don't do shit. This will be same reaction to staker censorship.
>>51458575maybe if those 10% are whales that control 80% of the supply
>>51458530>CBCB is a piker in the world of finance. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi will become the primary stake holder and will use this position to maintain the current regulator/government/bankster cartel. You vill own nothing and you vill be happy.
>>51458582>maybe if those 10% are whales that control 80% of the supplymaybe BUT those 10% are whales that control 80% of the supply*
>>51450958who do you think was doing the mining in the first placeobviously this was never decentralized tech, the validation process is too detached from the mining process, it was designed to be centralized from day 1
>>51458587if financial institutions manage to buy majority of eth, that means eth goes to trillions in market cap first
>>51458530> sued the us governmentThe courts of the US are part of the US government. You promote a plutocracy.
>>51458575Ever heard the Bankless podcast? This is when I realized mETHheads are reddit tier thinkers
>>51458603> I want someone to buy a majority of ethYou support a plutocracy furthermore.
>>51458610>You promote a plutocracy.every system is some version of a plutocracy, the only question is what type of wealth determines powerin pow, it's external resources, which gives corporations and states powerin PoS, it's coins, which gives early adopters powerthat's it, that's your choice, there's no 'power to the people' choice
>>51458495>>51458329Actually, censoring means not mining selfishly anymore, and non-selfish mining would be pretty easy to detect. If someone mines a block that doesn't include the transaction in the mempool with the highest fee... just ignore that block. So now instead of censoring, all they're doing is sanctioning.So yes, a censorship attack right now would work, but I think it would be pretty straightforward to fork with a workaround.I'll look more into it, it's interesting stuff.
>>51454520this, BTC will be banned, they are already drip feeding this signal to media. it'll be labelled eco terrorism. you wait and see. crypto is dead
>>51458631Fuck off with that debunked propaganda; as I said: you reek that you only try to fool children here.Pools are mainly common Joes who can switch pool or even asset at any time.PoS is PROGRAMMATICALLY a plutocracy and even the entry price is steep.
>>51458603Correct. ETH will become a 5 figure assets, it might even flippen. Then, the banksters will exert controls like censoring. At that point, all of the redditors will have to decide if they want to social slash their massive ETH bags down to ETC levels. They won't. That is not the hill they will die on. They will comply and accept the social controls put in place.
At the end of the day we have two camps here. Those who openly want centralized government controlled e-coins and those who are talking about the OG reason crypto exists in the first place.I'd suggest to ask for your local bank to hold your wealth if you're so eager for centralized government control.
>>51458380kek i'm not mining on my own dimefuck my landlord
>>51458638Selfish mining is something separate, dunno why you mentioned it>If someone mines a block that doesn't include the transaction in the mempool with the highest fee... just ignore that blockmempool isn't part of the consensus, it's impossibleethereum actually has a very complex research going on to prevent censorship by allowing earlier validators to force future validators to include transactionsthis is to prevent orphaning blocks as a way to enforce censorshiphttps://notes.ethereum.org/@fradamt/H1ZqdtrBFbitcoin just ignores the issue thinking the original design is magically censorship resistant>>51458670>Pools are mainly common Joes who can switch pool or even asset at any time.normal people are completely irrelevant in PoW. Normal people can actually generate blocks in their home in PoS.It's not even comparable.
>>51458717> normal people are completely irrelevant in PoWFuck you and die. Your entire propaganda about it is based on "pools being too big". They are too big because the common Joes flock to them you piece of shit; but they don't HAVE to flock to them; with PoS their wealth would be locked on chain.
>>51458717>normal people are completely irrelevant in PoW. Normal people can actually generate blocks in their home in PoS.It's not even comparable.CPU mining?
>>51458717>>51458746For reference, I generated a monero block last night on my laptop with P2Pool.
>>51458631this is fucking bullshitpow is capitalism pos is fuedalism
>>51458746>but they don't HAVE to flock to themPools are obligatory in PoW because of how small the chance to make one block is.It's possible to stake $10M worth of eth on a home pc, but $10M of asics is a really big operation.>>51458749you won't mine a btc block on a cpu in a million years>For reference, I generated a monero block last night on my laptop with P2Pool.because daily block reward is $62k which makes it insecure>>51458778There's nothing capitalistic about useless work for the sake of work.The only system it resembles is marxism.
There's no point discussing it much. Ask people if they want a system that the rich MUST control it or a system that that nobody SHOULD control it.You'll get the right answer.
>>51458717>mempool isn't part of the consensus, it's impossibleWell, some kind of heuristic then. Granted it's not as straightforward as with PoS.>>51458717>bitcoin just ignores the issue thinking the original design is magically censorship resistantBitcoin is basically set in stone. Which is both its strength and its weakness. But in the face of adversity it should be possible to change it. Eth pulled the DAO fork, so it proves anything is possible.
>>51458816> how small the chanceIt doesn't matter. They don't have to be on the same pool. They don't even have to go to someone else's pool and they can invite others to their own.
>>51458819>PoSrandom anon with a computer>PoWbig company with employees owning pic relatedthat's what you are defending>>51458830going to another pool won't help you if you're mining in America, like most miners will be in 2023.Good luck hiding pic related from the government.If you're mining with one asic in a home - you're irrelevant compared to pic related
>>51458816>you won't mine a btc block on a cpu in a million yearsI'm talking about monero, I don't care about BTC. We use the CPU-limited RandomX proofs.
>>51458869Fuck you and die you propagandist piece of shit. Not everyone has 32 ETH and most of the stake is already controlled effectively by the US government and other governments by the known entities who own the stake.You will never prove plutocracy is the right approach you piece of shit and you will never prove you are even crypto anymore.
>>51458869kek"What I have done" -- Satoshi upon seeing a mining operationStill better than PoS but def a silly way to spend earth's resources.
>>51458934>Not everyone has 32 ETHyes, but many more people have 32 eth than own big mining facilities.It's also much easier to be anonymous.>You will never prove plutocracy is the right approachBoth PoS and PoW rely on different forms of wealth to control consensus.Why is a mining company better than one random guy who accumulated eth for years?
>>51458950Don't fall for the plutocratic piece of shit. 0 energy is wasted; 100% of it goes to decentralization.Their ONLY argument is if that room goes to 51% on network hash and it's less than 0.1%.
>>51458968Shut the fuck up and die. Only if that room goes to 51% total hash rate you have ANY argument. You arguments only work on extremist leftist children from reddit.
>>51459014Mining facilities are impossible to hide because they're too big and consume too much energy.This means they will enforce regulations.Staking only requires a pc and internet.It's much, much easier to do it anonymously.
>>51452536miners are compensating
>>51459039Moron, you START with plutocracy with proof of STAKE. Satoshi starts with at least trying for NOBODY to have 51% hash rate.
>>51459060are you a salty gpu miner because you have zero arguments, just irrational anger
>>51459080I have never mined since the first days of crypto. The point is at the core of what PoS is.It STARTS with requiring a plutocracy while PoW tries to have neutrality.
>>51459104Mining hardware is a form of wealth.
>>51459126It is not locked-on chain, it does not directly control the chain BY CODE, and nobody can do ANYTHING if they don't have 51% of the world hash rate.
>>51459142you can't censor the chain without majority of stake too, so what's the problem exactly
>>51459181That's the point of the OP. There is already majority of the stake by known entities, all of them in a position to be directly ordered by the US and other governments (and if it's not easy yet: it's in a position to become easily worse).
>>51456239Do you retards honestly think the 'attack' is going to be straightforward? Coinbase will be told>you are either with the terrorists/russians or you are with usAnd people will accept it as wallets are frozen.
>>51458876>I'm talking about monero, I don't care about BTC. We use the CPU-limited RandomX proofs.If bitcoin had RandomX since day 1 it would have been the same. We'd have rooms full of powerful custom designed CPUs and you couldn't mine a block in a million year.>>51458816>It's possible to stake $10M worth of eth on a home pc, but $10M of asics is a really big operation.This is unfortunately so true. How many bitcoin maxis even bother mining (in a non-insignificant way)? It's probably close to zero. Whereas staking is easy as pie.(I still think PoS is shit but for other reasons)>>51458999>Don't fall for the plutocratic piece of shit. 0 energy is wasted; 100% of it goes to decentralization.I know the benefits outweigh the cost, but I still wish there was a better solution.Imagine if you told people that you leave your car running at all times because that's how you secure a payment platform (and make few bucks). How could they not look at you like you're fucking nuts? And wait until they see the guy who bought a 100 Ferrari's and keeps them idling in a big garage. lmao.It doesn't make it any less revolutionary and worth doing, but you gotta admit it's pretty silly.
>>51450958who cares, Ethereum was already centralized. Any PoW algorithm that doesn't utilize CPU dominance is centralized and easy for a government to attack because the majority of hash rate will be put together into warehouses or large farms when the hash rate should be spread thin amongst many.
>>51459323So funny, rooms full of CPUs wouldn't exist because it wouldn't be profitable. You can't just easily link up a bunch of CPUs like you can GPUs or ASICs.
>>51459201>There is already majority of the stake by known entitiesCoinbase has 12.5%, lido is international and distributed internally, binance is not americanwhile american btc miners are almost at 40% and they are known - because they are all registered companiesand the pool distribution happened only before the tornado sanction, people will withdraw and solo stake after withdrawals
>>51459104>It STARTS with requiring a plutocracy while PoW tries to have neutrality.That's actually kind of an argument in defense of Ethereum, which started with PoW then switched to PoS, which is infinitely better than "pure" PoS, because if you start with PoS all you get is absolute self-referential horseshit.
>>51459323>We'd have rooms full of powerful custom designed CPUs and you couldn't mine a block in a million yearThere is no such thing, as any randomx-optimised CPU will not be able to compete on price/performance with the massive economy of scale of generic CPU. Also, monero mining is not profitable. There is no reason to create a server farm for profit unless you can reliably steal electricity and hardware.Also, we have implemented P2Pool. everyone gets small shares of a mined block so there is no need for centralized pools.
>>51459375>So funny, rooms full of CPUs wouldn't exist because it wouldn't be profitable. You can't just easily link up a bunch of CPUs like you can GPUs or ASICs.Most retarded shit I read all day. Amazing.
>>51459484What do you know about XMR mining? There are no "CPU mining farms", retard it's just botnets and home miners. There is no barrier to entry in CPU mining so it's not profitable to do EVER unless you straight up steal electricity.If you have that much CPU power in one place, you can rent it out to do useful shit instead.
>>51459126except miners are forced to sell so in fact give back to the community by providing liquidity on the network while also securing the network >>51459380PoS just enforced plutocracy as the rich just gain more and more control over “consensus”.Sure you have to have a lot of money to own a big mining farm but it comes at a cost and the coins get redistributed eventually. Also the mining itself doesn’t give the miners control over the network, they just execute the mining software.>>51458816>There's nothing capitalistic about useless work for the sake of work.The only system it resembles is marxism.okay, now I know you are a moron. The entire point of work is to reach consensus, not your aristocratic kumbayah where nodelords just vote on which block they like the most. Freedom unironically isn’t free.It’s not Marxist you cretin, it’s capitalist. PoS is fucking fuedalism.Finally, answer me this. Which makes more money, $10,000 staked in shithereum at 3.4% apy or $10,000 spent on an asic mining for 12 months. Obviously electricity price will determine profitability, but the answer should be clear.
>>51459455>Also, monero mining is not profitable.The only reason for that (that I can think of) is that a large enough share of the hashrate comes from people mining for the sake of it, unconcerned by profits.If Monero was mainstream the price would be much higher, making mining profitable, and there would be CPU farms. Am I wrong?
>>51459781also any fucking Joe can mine, it’s not like you need to run some kind of mining cartel to make any money, your profitability is only limited by the price of electricity/hardware. Even poorfags could mine as long as they had cheap electricity.
>>51459586Yes, but it's not because they're "difficult to link".
>>51459817>also any fucking Joe can mineYeah but they won't bother. Nobody wants to babysit an asic. Beside it's a fire hazard. But they'll happily make a few click in order to stake. That's why zoomers love PoS. It goes with the times.
>>51457569Finally. It is not sacred bitcoin that is going to be banned, but vulgar ethereum. The heretics will pay the price for desecrating our holy creed.
>>51459378So is staking on Lido safe or not?
>>51454073>this is a logical fallacy, work does not equal value, a ditch dug by hand for 10 hours is not more valuable than a ditch dug in 30 minutes by a backhoeThat's not what this is. This is going from digging a ditch to just saying a ditch was made and then jerking off
>>51457682>It cost 2Bil to control a Network value at 400Bil at the momentThe amount of stupidity coming from this guy on his firsst sentence
>>51452703>glownigger copiumyou hate to see it
>>51457752Not him but ASIC's helps with the centralization of a Network, the point of Decentralizing with crypto originally was to mine the coins by using consumer grade technology aka consumer CPU's/GPU's, no specific machinery to mine the coin.The only reason why BTC allow ASICS is because the Network grew way too fucking fast, making it impossible to sustain the Network security unless ASICS were introduced, new GPU only coins have the benefit of organic grow.
>>51452703CCP Chang detected
not like groups of people aren't doing a big chunk of the mining before the merge...both POW and POS run on the same illusionyou can mine yourselfyou can stake yourselfbut the big chunk is still done by small groups of people with billions of money
>>51461378I think the biggest difference is that when you contribute hashing power to a pool, you're not putting up your equipment at risk of theft. With staking you have to provide your ethereum and there is always this inherent risk of theft. I think the first big heist on ETH POS will sour most people's opinions on it.
>>51461777You can pool stake while keeping custody afaik.
>>51458869Try to clear your thinkingThere is nothing magical about PoS that somehow gives the little weak anon superpowersPoW and POS both favor the strong, and cartels of strong organized men, as is natural, following laws of god and the multiverseIf you think more clearly you will see war is beautiful & natural. I love war. PoW is an extension of war into cyber space. Because the cartel of attacking miners can be detected & counterveiled. Hashpower is physical, and can be physically attackedPOS is just an abstract game. There are strengths, but security is the weakness. You will never know when the network is under attack or whereabouts of the censoring cartel. They just get richer and there is absolutely no way to counterveil. If this is what you want then be honest
>>51450958work as designed. GO for institution to join the party. who give a fuck about the tech or if it is in crypto spirit. I just want it to go higher and sell. Is this /philosophy ?
>>51457463>t. doesn't know what sybil attacks are
>>51459323> t it's pretty sillyIt's not silly. It's the price for decentralization. The alternative is to have 1 guy solving it all ..and 1 guy manipulating it all.
>>51462356> in crypto spiritit rapes the crypto spirit and it's not crypto anymoreit's plutocracyit's centralization
>>51462270> both favor the strongdifference is, PoS REQUIRES a plutocracy (and starts with a guaranteed one), PoW TRIES to have neutrality (avoidance of 51% attacks) and begins with neutrality (lack of 51% attacks).
>>51457973>privacyThe essence of privacy is not to evade government orders or policies rather it is to shield wallet transactions from the public view.
>>51452196How can I stake to bring this down (by 0.0001 blocks / 1000)?
>>51462944kek. Jeets think privacy is all about money laundering.
>>51458672It's like people don't understand what The Great Reset is all about.
>>51459378You already admitted the big boy banks will take over the majority of the network and facilitate whatever the feds want done, Blackrock is already considered the 4th branch of the government.
>>51458020Okay but which will make me money? The glowie centralized coin that could see widespread adoption? Or the decentralized coin that governments hate?
>>51458700Which will make me more money?
>>51464051>>51464078point is it's not crypto anymore, just some e-coin a literal bank would release.you can't claim it's part of a crypto investment or trade at all anymore.
>>51452703kys you retarded eth bagholder
>>51464093ok but who cares
>>51464093I know what you mean, but anon I'm poor. And personally I've seen who wins in the end. Not the little guy. Globohomo does, everytime. But really its not even about that, I just want to pump what little bags I could afford. If its some government e-coin o some decentralized based coin, it makes no difference to me. I'd love to see the true vision for crypto happen, sure, but I just need money anon. And frankly I'm far too blackpilled to give a shit.
>>51464114>>51464122It's irrelevant what predictions you do for the price. I could claim a government e-coin is shit and you could just hold fiat.The main point is that the OG devs didn't use PoW because they hated the redditor vegans but because they wanted pure neutrality by avoiding 51% attacks and government control; eth just gave government control; but even if they claim they don't try to give government control: they gave FROM DAY ONE plutocracy control.
>>51464137Again, how will this effect the price?
>>51464147I said>It's irrelevant what predictions you do for the price [it's subjective]. I could claim a government e-coin is shit and you could just hold fiat.
>>51464149fiat doesn't pump
>>51464159it doesn't go to 0 either, and a government would probably first protect its fiat, than an e-coin they took over because devs were brainlet.
>>51454520RandomX
>>51454641Kazakhstan will truly become the new center of the world as foretold by astrologyNavel of the world in the new Age of Aquarius
>decentral ledger>two dudes make >50% of the blocksOh vey
>>51450958monero was always the answer wasn't it?
>>51454641>All crypto is bitcoin or ethereum
>>51450958I trust smarter people than you anonVitalik has consistently been a class act
>>51464525He believes that he will literally live forever, "because new revolutionary tech".Are you also that dumb?
>>51464560ETH is going to be the normiecoin, why do you still bother? countless projects out there are staying true to the original SN idea, why do you seethe at ETH moving forward (or whatever the direction...)
>>51459781>miners give back to the community by dumping on themwhat the fuck am i readingpow in 2022 is really third-world magical thinking garbage
>>51464973freedom isn't free. fees/mining is what you pay to have decentralization.your local bank has also 0 fees but it's controlled by the state.
>>51458934>all that btc maxi cope propagandahey, fucktard. you can stake with rocket pool with 16 eth. you'll be able to stake a little bit with liquid staking. other chains like avax require just 25 avax to delegate and earn yield.
Ethereum POS is broken and controlled by whales. You can't unstake once staked and to stake by yourself you need 30k usd+ of ETH. Compare that to ICP or NEAR where anyone can freely stake any amount at any time for between 10 and 20% APY. Ethereum isn't POS, it's a ponzi.
>>51465893You are a moron. The point is not how to suck the cock of the plutocracy, the point is that eth is PROGRAMMATICALLY a plutocracy now from day 1.
>>51467121pow suffers the same problem. govs can still force miners in the western world to censor tx. ok you can fork once, then what.gj trying to control ALL PoS blockchains.
>>51469473debunked all the time; the "big pools" are random joes; they can switch pool at any time and they can even switch asset entirely.pos has your wealth locked on-chain; most of it is already controlled by big known entities; it's easily controlled by governments.worse of all: it's programmatically a plutocracy from day 1; pow tries from day 1 for nobody to have 51% hash power. unequal.
>>51469574>they can switch pool at any timewhen a gov physically seizes the miners?>muh premine~90% of that premine was offered in a public presale that involved nearly 10,000 Bitcoin addresses, followed by 5 years of brutal market redistribution.
>>51469821you can't physically seize anonymous people.the exchanges though have literal human IDs.keep supporting the plutocracy of the preminers.
>>51470126>you can't physically seize anonymous people.by miners i meant asics of course>keep supporting the plutocracy of the preminersseethe more mincel. nobody cares about your day 1 purity. nobody cares if the creators or those who funded them got more coins. they already traded part of that for fiat
>>51457779So coinbase now owns Eth. lol
>>51455469Bro Eth hasn't even coded in a withdrawal function for staking.It will be like this for 6+ months at least.
funny how most didn't realise that centralisation of power was inevitable and you were buying L1 with bettuh tech rather than stacking up to be one of the elites in this new system. Not late to do so, buy now and don't be a hater down the line.
>>51457670>Ethereum will fork away.Lol no you can't.You assholes can't even run a node or cash out of staking.
>>51459798it’s always been interesting to me how brutally unprofitable XMR mining is. I think this is for two reasons:1. unlike with Bitcoin + ASICs, people mining XMR really are doing it on common sunk-cost PCs, oftentimes using flat-rate electricity, so they’re not technically running at a loss, and2. many in the XMR community prefer to mine instead of buy through an exchange for privacy reasons, and are willing to effectively pay a small premium for that privilege
>>51470431XMR miners are all botnets and FPGAs, lol.Nobody mines that legit it's all cheated hash and algorithms change all the time.
>>51470475There is no way you can mine XMR on an FPGA anymore. it's not competitive with off-the shelf CPUs. >algorithms change all the timeNot since RandomX.
>>51457564Based, of course the miner losers are seething. Taking screen caps in this thread for later use.
>>51470277> nobody cares if they are FUCKED IN THE ASS by the plutocracy of posyou don't people with brains do.
>>51464149so everything you're saying is meaningless and we'll still get rich buying ETH? ok then, thanks for the history lesson champ
>>51471002nobody is fucked in the ass, powcel. you are so mad since the succesful merge and all the relevance and innovation happening on pos chains. the flippening is inevitable
>>51471094>>51471095> I suck the cock of the plutocrats, I piss on the face of crypto, and I use government controlled e-coins.
ETH holders got BTFO'd
>>51471860nice retort. i'm here to make money retard. i don't give a shit about fundamentals. i'll be buying at 1k and selling at 5k eoy. simple as
>>51472598If you don't give a shit about fundamentals, why are you in these markets, and not on the Indian stock exchange?
>>51472598lmao ur a delusional retard
"crypto currency was a mistake" - satoshi nakamora
Better buy TSUKA ETH fags.
>>51473621"welcome to the party pal"-nakatomi plaza
>>51452703Didn't China banned crypto mining last year?
You'd better hope those exchanges don't decide to go net short
>>51457463Then Rick people split their funds over 1000000 wallets and make even more
>>51450958No thanks, I'll stick with Monero
>>51455104Do you have evidence of this? I always thought the original market maker was Alameda.
>>51450958I expected it to dump harder than it is, but it is dumping. It's going to bleed all the way down as people come to realize that it's pointless to hold a coin whose protocol is just whatever (((exchanges))) and (((whales))) say. Get out of this white while it's still up over 0.07 BTC per ETH. That's a steal!
>>51452196I'm waiting for the exit pump then I'm selling all of it.
Why is everyone concerned about ETH suddenly when we have been using PoS L1s for a long time without 51% attacks? (ADA, AVAX, etc)
>>51474234because nobody actually uses those chains
>>51474234because it's the only crypto that moved from pow to pos, also #2 on coinmarketcap
>>51471860>>51469574https://twitter.com/ercwl/status/1570675496794591233
>>51474234they're all shit.>>51475081again: not the same. miners can just switch pool or even asset anonymously. stake baggers have to be locked on-chain with their addresses and in most cases with their real IDs.
>>51450958
>>51450958is there a simple way to stake less than 32 eth and avoid exchanges?
For the longest time I really did believe that ETH was a genuine attempt to make blockchain tech useful and not a ponzi. But I just can't wrap my head around why "le deflationary burn mechanic" is in any way a useful feature of Ethereum other than "green line go up." So this thing is actually going to die now and it won't even have time to redeem itself with any of the planned future scaling developments that are currently in the "just trust me bro" phase.Time to admit that blockchain and crypto is just not very useful. It's a solution in search of a problem. Less secure than conventional banking, more expensive, more transparent (oh, you're sending me crypto? here's my address, enjoy viewing my balance and my entire transaction history). Who is this even for?
>>51475469The OG purpose of crypto is to not be government controlled / decentralized. PoW does it perfectly or at least optimally and your local bank does 100% the opposite so by definition your local bank can not replace it.PoS is algorithmically a plutocracy and in practice government controlled because the plutocracy is often IDed entities like exchanges so it violates the OG purpose ..algorithmically and practically.
>>51454208The ADL parties all night
>>51475432rocketpool
>>51454302That pink haired bitch has a brain
Lido mined a block which had a Tornado.cash transaction in it yesterday. Lido has now violated US sanction and the entire staking pool can be target and seized, rendering steth instantly worthless. ETHfags are fucking insane. The US government can now, with cause, at any time they want, destroy the largest staking pool. This is a complete fucking disaster.
>>51473857Interesting. Anyone have any counter arguments to this? On a sidenote I'd assume this could become a major problem for DAO based projects. The main rationale is the DAOs have the best interest of the platform in mind because they hold equity in the form of governance tokens, but going net short their incentives flip too. Never thought about this before. Maybe this is a reason why a large part of the space has become so pro regulatory
>>51476359I like how some of them try to see if eth can prevent shorting on-chain.It's irrelevant what the chain does. The attacker can short on-exchange.
>>51464490>t. can't read
>>51476542So the eth people have at least recognized this problem? What is Vitalik thinking? He's a smart guy, r-right. Maybe Vit is about to move on. For avantgarde people crypto is a 2017 thing
>>51459781This question interested me so I did a back of the envelope. At today's prices you could get 5 S19 pro antiminers. If you can source 10 cents a kilowatt they'll make you 67 bucks a month. So it's 804 bucks a year with btc, or 340 bucks a year with Proof-of-Vitalik
>>51476672He is a controlled golem, so the question is akin to asking, what will Hillary Clinton do when the Rothschilds tell her to shine their shoes?
>>51474234All the PoS shitcoins that have preceded ETH have actually benefitted from total centralization. Look at this shit.https://fortune.com/2022/06/02/solana-shutdown-longest-time-offline-transaction-durable-nonce/If you have total complete control over consensus in a PoS coin the only thing you have to do is not censor transactions to give the illusion of being a cryptocurrency. This has been allowed as regulators don't understand these shitcoins and have not made demands. Not to mention nothing useful happens on them. A centralized PoS coin is just a sharded SQL database with replication.
>>51476672>So the eth people have at least recognized this problem?do you think the eth gigabrains never thought of this?https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1301298086027821056
>>51476672
>>51477386>>51477419Wow Vitalik is even dumber than I thought. The security of ETH is now tied to its market price. If a large staking pool gets slashed, even if it is insufficient for an adequate attack, ALL of the clients whose funds are allocated in that pool have their ETH go to zero, and the staked token they were issued goes to zero, and the reliability of the ETH ecosystem is threatened and ETH is perceived as less valuable, substantially lowering the price, meaning that the slashed coins go to the large stakers and the cheaper ETH is bought up to buy even more centralization. Also this retarded tweet assumes a zero cost of energy for PoW mining and fails to account for the fact that the attack has to be successful to damage the protocol whereas even unsuccessful attacks on ETH will completely fuck it up. This guy is literally retarded.
The mETH cope is very real. Smart contract chains are essentially dead, or just globohomo abominations.
>>51452196Lido is 28 decentralized operators dipshit.
>>51452703Skitso cunt
>>51450958Vitalik looks like he molests kids.