/biz/ - Business & Finance

>chuds
I've never seen a more forced meme

>>51436548
Post bank account info or are you up to shady shit, anon?

>>51436565
no one uses that word unironically, right..? i always assume the poster is being satirical

>>51436548
>be me
>buying VPN subscription
>card keeps declining for some reason
>pay with Monero instead
>instant
Oh, yes! I can feel the CRIME flowing through my veins!

>>51439174
>vpn

>>51436548
>1 post by this ID
Bitcoin had the same narrative. You are not a criminal for wanting and having privacy.

>>51436851
Discord fags from leftypol use it unironically

>>51439209
Yeah, yeah. I wanted one for my specific use case, I pirate a lot of media and don't want my ISP seeing what porn sites I visit.

>>51439370
>>51439301

no one cares about your porn or chinese cartoons

>>51439943
Tell that to Comcast. I was starting to get a few love letters

>>51436548
ASIC computers are forcing it. Monero is a Ponzi scheme by definition

>>51439174
You know vpns don’t do anything right? The same companies requiring you to pay for a vpn, own those vpns. It’s not privacy, in matter of fact it’s the opposite. You’re now on that VPNs list of users and it has your IP and wallet address. Enjoy!

>>51439943
I don't possess any of those things, nor want to.

>>51440071
OVPN is a Swedish company and has gone to court and proved that they don't keep logs. I agree that a VPN isn't some magical button that makes you anonymous, but saying they do nothing is wrong.

In addition to that, my wallet address is not visible to the person receiving Monero. The blockchain does not share that information without the transaction key, which is only known by the sender.

In summary, I didn't just go out and buy NordVPN. I did a little research first and picked a company with a good reputation and paperwork to back them up. You also don't know how XMR works and shouldn't be talking about it without some research.

>>51436548
>privacy
>black Market
>drugs
>pedophilia
:)

>>51440446
mods ban this pedo

>>51440071
>not knowing what monero is
LMAO NEWFAG GTFO

For any actual newfags lurking this thread, this was the FUD for Bitcoin back in 2012
>It's only used for black market drug dealing
>Govt. will crack down on this

If you ever wanted to buy BTC when it was at 2012 prices, this is your chance.

>>51440314
>>51440314
>OVPN is a Swedish company and has gone to court and proved that they don't keep logs.

Proofs?

>>51442501
Here's their page about the court shit
https://www.ovpn.com/en/blog/ovpn-wins-court-order

Here's the information on where they're based from their about page
https://www.ovpn.com/en/about

The WhoIs info on their site also points to Sweden

>>51439174
Next time get a VPS instead and run a wireguard instance on it to get your own private VPN service.

>>51442225
>>Govt. will crack down on this
And they did to an extent, hence Monero.

>>51443948
I have one, but it's running OpenVPN. I chose a subscription so I could have multiple servers for a lower price point. Plus there's a little more added anonimity with a VPN subscription because there are multiple people using it, so you blend in a bit more (if you ignore browser fingerprinting and such)

>>51436548
>Everything this coin is useful for is degenerate/illegal.
>I dont see why you chuds promote this
do you know where you are?

>>51439326
I wonder why they hate Monero so much.

>>51436548
We hate the feds

>>51444054
On an anonymous megaphone, based retard

>>51444691
they are pedos so you'd think they'd like monero

yeah well it's privacy technology. We promote it for the reasons you listed and because it's technologically impressive. If you want to invest/gamble, you should look elsewhere.

>>51445131
Speaking of Gambling, you should check out the Poker Club on Dread (when this DDoS passes). It's pretty comfy, XMR only as well

>>51444691
I'm sure a lot of them do just because their peers told them "this crypto is used by Nazis", so they disregard the tech entirely. The Chinese have a word for these people, but I can't recall it at this time

>>51445624
they literally use the term "white liberal" as an insult in China.

>>51445624
baizuo

>>51436548
it's cash without an issuing bank. thus it has severe limitations at scaling, but also more trustless and permissionless than say federated chaumian e-cash (which actually scales).

each to their own... there are only tradeoffs in crypto. and everything is good or bad based on your underlying assumptions.

>>51436548
The future of privacy is not a silo's chain without smart contracts "Monero", it's EVM privacy because that is where the users and DApps are. This is one of the biggest reasons why 0xMonero is superior to Monero.

The golden age of Bitcoin was when nobody was tracking it and you could actually use it for that underground internet shit without some credit card paypal third parties breathing down your neck. 2013 Silkroad. Newfags GTFO. But of course, the Bitcoin design just has no privacy so it was a matter of time before it stopped being usable. Now Bitcoin has turned into a real estate tier boomer investment ponzi with that store of value cope. Okay, you exchange it to fiat with KYC, but then you get also tracked on chain. Third parties breathing down your neck again. Game over. Not fucking usable on the internet, the *real* internet. Might as well use credit cards.

>>51439943
Except they fucking do. It's censored for me.

>>51440071
>wallet address
They don't though in Monero.
VPN proxy is a completely legitimate tool to deal with censored shithole parts of the internet while having a large bandwidth for torrents etc. It's not a proper Tor replacement, not my problem retards think it is.

>>51446213
>0xMonero
literal scam
>muh L2/emv privacy
Enjoy getting blacklisted from everything just because you passed through those. Optional privacy is not real privacy. Ethereum never gave a fuck about privacy. Also PoS returns to the old central banking system. Just like Bitcoin, miners/validators can censor transactions. Would not surprise me at all if they cuck out and add KYC straight to the chain.

>>51446676
privacy is worthless without decentralization and social durability. bitcoin has the decentralization and social durability monero has the privacy.

bitcoin slowly gets there where it has better privacy on higher layers that is more forgetful than blockchains than monero on l1. monero however keeps upgrading it's l1 privacy and heading superior towards zk solutions that don't degrade over time as much as ring ct.

it's quiet interesting.

>>51447043
I'm completely hopeless on Bitcoin.
>decentralization and social durability
Both of which are better on Monero. Industrial scale ASIC miners who can censor transactions vs CPU miners who don't know transaction addresses and amounts, and mine on P2Pool.
Boomer number go up store of value cope vs actual use as an internet money.
Blockstream vs having anon devs.
Only thing Bitcoin has is its size.
>bitcoin slowly gets there where it has better privacy on higher layers
AHAHAHAHA. They always say yeah bro we'll just bolt on some layer bro. No we don't have it yet but we will totally do it... somehow, someday. I see it as very half-assed.

No way people can be this braindead.

>>51447532
I retract this statement. I know that people can be like this but I'd like to imagine that there aren't people like this. Keeping it because it illustrates how much of an insane post this is in a two part series.

>>51447357
no sadly it's much worse on monero. but pow is pretty hopless if a state like the usa decides to compete with a bunch of autists in their basement on resource and energy consumption.

social durability is all about shared vision and values. monero is much weaker than bitcoin in a way, but in an other way the shared value of monerotards is much more in line with my values.

>They always say yeah bro
i am following it very closely. it's seriously getting there. receiver privacy on ln is getting improved as we speak. some nodes already released blinded paths some are working on it. the lightning network is getting receiver privacy in days not years. chaumian mints are having multiple implementations they are not very functional and don't scale to a global payment system sans lightning. but with lightning interoperability jesus christ. it's literally as good as cash in privacy. that's why they call it e-cash. it's way better than any blockchain with publicly analyzable tx graph.

and it scales magnitudes better than blockchains too. aslo compatible with any instant point of sale terminal using lightning. like monero is not even in the game anymore.

what's interesting too is the price action relative to gold for bitcoin and monero...

so if you got in monero early before 2016-08 you are way better off than holding bitcoin. it's crazy how much better. but if you got in after, you are way better off holding bitcoin or since like late 2019 roughly the same.

i don't know what this all means yet for the future. but it seems like historically there were more days by far where buying monero over bitcoin paid off handsomely.

>>51436548
>the only cryptocurrency that is used for anything of significant scale
go back to where you came from. /biz/ is not chud, we embrace the NWO and all their illicit crimes

>>51436548
Limiting privacy to illegal activities is the highest level of retardation

>>51436851
I had a normie lefty acquaintence use it unironically. Couldn't help from laughing in his face, even though I usually keep my powerlevel on the downlow

>>51436548
I wouldn’t buy this scam honeypot coin, but crime is a huge part of the economy. Probably something like 40% if you factor in tax evasion

>>51445131
The reasons are not limited to the shallow things that was mentioned. There are countless legitimate reasons to stay private with one's financial activities.

>>51447580
>no sadly it's much worse on monero
I strongly disagree. The ASIC resistance that Monero implements has limited the upper hand that can be gained by larger entities and kept everybody on a more level playing field. Also, the Monero community didn't spend a ton of time debating on changing block size, implementing segwit, etc. so I'd say the community is more tightknit than Bitcoin's.

For LN privacy, it'll always be second to Monero from a fundamental point of view because Monero has already been through the ringer and come out on top and any L2 tech will always have a larger attack surface than L1.

>>51447580
>social durability is all about shared vision and values. monero is much weaker than bitcoin in a way
False. Bitcoin changes the narrative, Monero improves the tech. You're retarded so I didn't read the rest.

>>51447043
It's the other way round. Decentralization is incomplete without privacy. Although, privacy is not limited to Monero obviously; there are several good performing privacy protocols built using the zk tech

>>51448752
yep.

>>51446213
Kek, that's a joke right? because I don't see any difference between 0xmr and a wannabe bot. The future of privacy is multi-chain where users can keep their actions hidden on blockchain explorers regardless of the chain they're interacting with

>>51449005
you disagree because you have absolutely no idea how much worse cpu power is distributed than asics. and how incredibly insignificant the share of monero hashrate of the available pool of cpu power compared to bitcoin.

>>51444700
They are resilient

>>51449047
bitcoin has a magnitudes larger consensus than monero both in the number of users nodes transactions and their economic weight and of course the energy utilized to secure it. it's incomparable.

but it1s true enough that bitcoin strays farther and farther from cypherpunk roots every year.

monero 'improving tech' is just a load of bollocks in the grand scheme of things.

>>51449940
>Decentralization is incomplete without privacy.
correct. but arguably privacy just has to exist for the users. it doesn't have to exist on l1. hence why bitcoin is winning the privacy and scaling battle.

however bitcoin sacrifices a lot and not everyone is comfortable with it. so monero is an interesting tradeoff.

>>51446676
>Ethereum never gave a fuck about privacy
That's false and you don't get to make such generalized statements without reason. Railgun, using zksnarks built an on-chain privacy system on Eth mainnet and the level of activity within the system is enough evidence to disprove your baseless conclusion.

>>51440039
>ASIC computers are forcing Monero
Imagine being this new.

>>51445091
The pedo/drug/underworld narrative can be assumed as mostly WEF negro talking points.
The market cap just doesn't match it at this time. At best, it is a payment network, as such types live for the moment, and as such are comped by getting back into fiat to buy useless shit to impress people they don't even like. Full on Wiemar. Thanks central banks.

>>51447580
This lightning fag was shitting up our /XMR/ thread. He likes to get lost in his TPS, mints and whatnot.
He never asks himself, "why does lightning exist?" The answer is clearly that, bitcoin doesn't scale. "Code is Law". And why is that? The governance model gave all the power to the miners and nodes. And they have no interest in agility. As a result, the majority of miners are centralized as mining corps. There will be some chaos for king bitcoin soon enough. The upcoming halvening, mining corps getting bought out by WEF types, tax goys getting their cut with the help of the analysis corps. And lightning is all tied to this, because it's whole reason to exist is based on a BTC workaround.

>>51450021
>you have absolutely no idea how much worse cpu power is distributed than asics
Alright, anon. Enlighten me on how requiring a dedicated machine for mining is less centralized than being able to do it on a gaming PC. ASICs are a cost prohibitive tool that keeps the commoner from participating. Sure, a company like Amazon could still dominate the mining scene by buying a bunch of servers and putting them in a pool, but that's still a better option than requiring a specific machine (which will be outdated and replaced sooner rather than later, leading to a lot of waste).

>>51450122
Enabled privacy on mobile apps. If for nothing, I respect it for that

>>51450089
Privacy protocols built on L1 is believed to have an inherent native security. Scaling battle will be down to how multi-chain composable any privacy focused project is and their relative ability to integrate with on-chain applications

>>51436548
imagine getting shaken out by the same fud, again
lol
>weak appeals to emotion do not affect a technologies prowess

>>51440071
>it has your IP and wallet address.

Ok and? Who gives a fuck.

>>51450376
>"why does lightning exist?" The answer is clearly that, bitcoin doesn't scale.
*facepalm* no decentralized blockchain scales despite the delusional cashie bullshit you subscribed to.
not to scales that truly matter. fucking idiot...

>>51440071
>You’re now on that VPNs list of users and it has your IP and wallet address. Enjoy!
except I'm not, and I'm not a faggot.
get fucked Schlomo

>>51450579
monero hashpower is not even 0.01% of the total available cpu power globally (most of which is held by centralized actors that can be coerced by nation states to attack or deny service). bitcoin has a haspower share over 98% of it's specific hash function.

>>51451090
>Privacy protocols built on L1 is believed to have an inherent native security.
makes no sense. monero is built on the internet which has zero privacy. what prevents a higher layer from having more privacy than a lower layer?

>>51440071
convinced feds post this paranoid schizo bait shit to scare people away from easy privacy options

>>51439943
nobody cares about your small and malformed cock either, but you probably want some say over who gets to see it.

>>51451982
Yes, because Monero is specifically CPU mined. Of course the majority of Bitcoin's hashpower is going to be specifically for Bitcoin. That's an apples to oranges comparison.

Basically anything can mine XMR, which is skewing the results that you present. You're looking at the size of the Monero network with every CPU, vs the Bitcoin network with every ASIC. There's a ton more CPUs in the world than ASICs and ASICs exist for the explicit purpose of mining their target crypto, so of course the percentage will be vastly different.

As for the centralization concern, it'd be a lot harder to stop every CPU from mining Monero than it would be to ban the sale/importation of ASICs. So yes, it's still a concern with Monero, but it's the best we currently have available.

>>51452829
>Yes, because Monero is specifically CPU mined.
which is a huge weakness. people are kinda stupid about this. smart bitcoiners know that not having over 51% share of the applicable hashpower participating is a big fucking nope.

>>51452866
Are you trying to say that because the majority of CPUs in use globally aren't being used for Monero, it's more centralized than Bitcoin?

>>51452939
not only that, but i'm saying it's way more vulnerable to the things that we try to avoid by decentralizing pow, than bitcoin.

bitcoin is more decentralized and more censorship resistant than monero or any gpu/cpu mined coin.

this however obviously relies on distribution of hashpower between jurisdictions. if retarded us miners manage to concentrate over 51% hash in major mining companies domestically, bitcoin gets easily fucked no matter what % share of the global hashpower it has.

>>51453005
basically your coin needs to have over 51% of the applicable hashpower actively participating in consensus, and it needs that hashpower well distributed globally.

both of those are crucial. you can't just focus on one!

>>51453005
Anon, do you realize how fucking dense that statement is? I can mine Monero on a smart toaster, my phone, a raspberry pi, or a TV these days. And that's somehow more centralized than Bitcoin (which requires special hardware that few people actually have to have a snowball's chance in Hell of being successful with), specifically because I'm not actively doing it?

>>51453050
>basically your coin needs to have over 51% of the applicable hashpower actively participating in consensus, and it needs that hashpower well distributed globally.
I will agree with you here, more participation on a global scale is always the best answer, but you're interpreting your own talking points in the wrong way. Of course there won't be as high of a percentage taking part in the Monero network because you're comparing the participation of every CPU to the participation of ASICs. ASICs only exist for that one purpose, while CPUs are used for damn near everything. There's going to be a massive disparity there because they're 2 vastly different categories.

>>51436548
Yes, and? Keep seething, we keep winning in the end while you cry. CRY.

>>51453144
For example, how many trucks are used for racing? A fair number. Comparing them to a formula one race car would be stupid though, because they fill 2 entirely different roles.

Monero was designed to be CPU mined specifically because everybody who wants to try it will be able to. Bitcoin doesn't even really give you the option and the hardware can be (relatively) easily banned. How many ASICs do you have? Because I'm mining on 3 PCs as we speak.

>>51436548
>"chud"
You're shit at your job
Can this idiot's supervisor give him a slap, he needs it

>>51436851
They are genuinely that mentally defective

>>51440039
Those ASIC computers, don't use them folks, use the RISC ones for lower risk

>>51436548
>He doesn't realize that financial surveillance won't inevitably continue creeping
Kek

>>51436548
XMR is a bet that even regular commerce outside of the coming CBDC system will be made illegal.
Which is a pretty safe bet.

>>51453005
>bitcoin is more decentralized and more censorship resistant than monero or any gpu/cpu mined coin.

OK, lets examine all the chokepoints, shall we?

1. ASICs need to be fabricated, usually in China. So you're relying on the CCP allowing that to continue.

2. Then you're relying on the CCP allowing those ASICs to be exported.

3. Then you're relying on those ASICs not being subject to importation & sales restrictions due to "environmental concerns". Still want to buy? You'll need one of them newfangled "crypto-mining licenses." Thing is, they only issue those to verified miners who are compliant and censor transactions at OPEC's command.

Fact is that *only* BTC miners need mining ASICs, they could be banned tomorrow with essentially no wider outcry since literally nobody else would be affected. In other words, BTC's current hashrate is ultimately dependent on governments allowing it, it absolutely isn't decentralized or permissionless. .

In comparison, CPU mining gives Monero miners a 100% guarantee that they will always have access to all the necessary hardware since there's obviously 0% chance consumer desktops, laptops, smartphones and tablets will ever be subject to the above restrictions. And they can acquire that hardware with plausible deniability since there are many, many other non-mining applications said hardware can be used for.

Also, CPU mining means the total number of *potential* Monero miners is astronomical instead of being limited to only those who can acquire enough ASICs.

>>51452121
I don't know who is doing it but it isn't organic. The other one is the "because some shady proprietary shit exists in Intel and AMD, lets go ahead and assume that every machine is compromised now and forever also they are magically transmitting all information in some way no one has ever discerned"

Related closely to "muh MAC address registry" posters.

It's like some kind of disinfo FUD, with the goal being to convince readers that perfect privacy is unattainable therefore don't even bother just use internet exploder and visa bro just give up bro it's already over bro

>>51436548
tell everyone your bank account number, login credentials, full name, and social security number if you don't believe in privacy.

>>51436548
If it's used for crime it means it's useful at its task of being private, I definitely wouldn't use it as my main coin if we were to use them in transactions, but for safely transferring funds to avoid kyc and such it can be good

>>51453144
>There's going to be a massive disparity there because they're 2 vastly different categories.

doesn't matter what the reason is, the result is important. you will never ever fucking know if a longer chain with more hashpower exists out there. you have no theoretical finality on a chain with such an abysmal share of the global hashpower.

>>51453992
where the fuck this guy thinks cpus are made?
whichever foundry can make cpus can make asics too.

>Also, CPU mining means the total number of *potential* Monero miners is astronomical
narrator: and that's an awful thing for network security and finality assumptions. because observing the blockchain you see tells you nothing about the state of the universe with any appreciable certainty.

>>51454250
you can change your mac address on most adapters easily. lmao!

>>51454250
Perfect privacy is unattainable retard. Even if you do everything correctly there's always going to be a zero day on your machine that could be activated if the feds hate you that much. That being said the point of good privacy is to make their jobs as difficult and expensive as possible so the only way you get owned is if you're a big enough pain in the ass that they have to waste a zero day on you. VPN's in the traditional sense are nit great when tor exists. The only reason to use one over tor is for Netflix (LOL), torrenting, and making accounts or posting on sites that block tor (like 4chan).

>>51454657
>whichever foundry can make cpus can make asics too.

Are you dense? General-purpose CPU devices are not at risk of being restricted or outright banned like mining ASICs are.

>narrator: and that's an awful thing for network security and finality assumptions. because observing the blockchain you see tells you nothing about the state of the universe with any appreciable certainty.

Yes, its awful that millions of households and data centers around the world possess the means of mining Monero with no additional investment required.

>>51455206
>Are you dense? General-purpose CPU devices are not at risk of being restricted or outright banned like mining ASICs are.
that actually not makes anything worse for asics if you bother to think about it for a second.

it's the distribution that matters. if your consensus is in danger of getting swamped with new supply of hahspower it's actually weaker.

>>51455206
>data centers around the world
that's also part of the problem major us cloud providers alone posess many magnitudes the hahspower the entire monero network utilizes to secure it's transaction history.

>>51455361
> if your consensus is in danger of getting swamped with new supply of hahspower it's actually weaker

Err, no. The total amount of CPU hashpower isn't impacted much by even a year's worth of production of CPUs. By contrast, someone trying to spam bitcoin-specific ASICs could overwhelm that much more easily. It's not even close, I'm just wondering whether it's one, two, or three orders of magnitude.

>>51439174
based mullvadchad

People said the same thing about BTC retard glow nigger

>>51455451
it's actually a lot worse when it's already out there. you have to be a special retard not to see that.

>>51453005
LOL average BTC brainlet. ASIC farms are 10000000% easier to shut down and compromise in comparison to standalone CPUs.

>>51436548
based truth knower. I was also a heavy supporter of XMR, but I see what these things are doing to society and have joined the fight against them. it's easy enough to make money in other ways

>>51436548
Dude
>privacy
>black Market
>drugs
>pedophilia
LMAO

Everything this amendment is useful for is degenerate/illegal.
I dont see why you chuds promote this

>>51436548
>>privacy
>>black Market
>>drugs
>>pedophilia
BULLISH