/biz/ - Business & Finance

>should I lose money out of spite
Yes that's a great plan, do that

Are you an anglo?

>>51430978
Make money so you can retire earlier and spend more time with your kids one day instead of dealing with this bullshit ever again.

Something tells me you could easily be terribly retarded and unaware midwit

But I would give the benefit of the doubt of you actually being talented

Something tells me youre an absolute white nigger though

>>51430978
Oh, I thought that was a picture of Do Kwon being arrested.

They're going to get just enough out of you so the cheaper labor can pick up where you left off and fire you. Complaints are on record so you can't get merit raises and so you don't get a big head. Agree to be a temp consultant for 10x your hourly rate and find a new job

>>51430978
Squeeze them good, bro. Charge the living hell out of them upfront and then just leave.

I would settle for a fat check then fuck off to to whatever I want though

Youre so incompetent you couldnt even create something literal monkeys could use

>>51430978
If you are so good why aren't you busy with more important/profitable things?

If you are so good how come your code is unreadable and continues to break?

>>51431036
This, tell them you're willing to come on as a consultant/contractor. Get help from someone to make a good contract but charge them 5 times your previous annual salary at a MINIMUM. If they're really desperate, go 10x.

>>51430978
>I really don't like working with these people especially after they shit on my previous work

Who cares? You think I like the people I work for? Business is business and most people in it are insufferable cunts. Calculate a top number then add 100% as a starting point.

its just business
I would squeeze them for as much as I can get who cares if you like these people

>>51430978

Forgot to mention:

>Talented programmer winning national competitions and whatnot

This is the surest fire way to ensure that I never hire you. I don't care that you can program Fizz Buzz in under 5 minutes with a BrainFuck compiler you wrote yourself in machine code.

I care about whether you can help me move more units or whatnot. And winning competitions in no way correlates to being a productive, competent programmer in industry. In fact, it tends to be a detriment because ego gets in the way of taking direction and fulfilling requirements. And based on what you've posted here, that sounds like it would be an issue with you.

I need people who can communicate effectively with stakeholders and adhere to established patterns and practices. Because long after you're off to the next gig, I'll still be there dealing with your shit to keep the enterprise running.

Sounds like a larp. And even if it's not, you still sound insufferable and they probably weren't happy with YOU and it had nothing to do with your work.

But I agree you should squeeze them good.

>>51431065
>doesn’t know the difference between social skills and coding skills

Kys

wow great story you fucking faggot

>>51430978
you are not working with these people, you are replacing them, why not? better do faster than that fag recovers from covid

>>51431089
They’re leveraging their management skills by creating a toxic environment for you. They know you’re a skilled coder but they create a “you need them” by constantly shitting on you. This commonly happens because 1) you’ve never left a job (implying you’re scared and/or comfy) and 2) you really are skilled but lack social skills. You are normal. They are predatory. Optimal response is Get as much money from them and ghost them. Second option is to ghost them, but you gain the mindset of “people need you, not you need them” which is refreshing.

>t been there, done that

>>51431206
people with "long covid" are dying from the clot shot, they are never "recovering"

>>51431304

Agree. It's the only chronic disease that seems to predominately effect women and only on one part of the political spectrum. Funny how that works.

>>51431062
>>51431065
They developed a custom backend for all their application that they adapt. The two guys that developed it are gone now and I'm the only one who knows how to work in that custom backend. It's not my code that's spaghetti it's the undocumented ((masterpiece)) of these shitters

>>51431321
>It's not my code that's spaghetti it's the undocumented ((masterpiece)) of these shitters

So why'd you take the job? I never sign on for anything without a comprehensive review of expected requirements and existing systems.

>>51431321
In hindsight they fucked the company over by making themselves irreplaceable

>>51430978
It sounds like they legitimately need you, badly--what I'd do is pay some fiver/upwork jeet $25 to put together some sort of slide deck/presentation/handout showing your new rates, make it look as if you've been doing work at this rate for a while. Obviously jack your rates up like 5-10x whatever they were previously. They'll probably try to negotiate with you, but if what you're saying is honestly true then you'll probably be able to get your chosen rate.

>>51430978
Form an LLC then charge them out the ass for consulting

>>51431154
I don't care about what you need nigger

Also, the CTO with the long covid is a huge crypto fan (never told me about it but constantly tweets about that from his private account). If you're lurking here, show yourself

>>51431346
well now you are irreplaceable :)

>>51431866
>I don't care about what you need nigger

You should. It's good practice to seek counsel and advice from smarter people who are more accomplished than you. And based on the way you presented your case, you've got some pretty big fucking problems.

are they public?

decline and take a short position

>>51432223
They are not. They aren't that big either maybe 100 employees

>>51430978
squeeze them for money, but tell them first day their new hires dont have what it takes
tell them you want to pick who maintains the code
hire whi te dev

>>51432919
>hire whi te dev

This is the second best advice in the thread so far after my own.

>>51430978
I hope you go homeless and forgotten if you reject this chance based on what you think would make 4chan retards happy

>>51430978
accountingfag here, I am really good at negotiating these situations. i.e. I can tell you a pretty precise number/structure to ask for but I need details.
Does the company make money now/does it have positive cash flow now?
How much money does the company stand to make in the future? (annually)
How secure is the industry?
Have you head any numbers about valuation of the company?
How many owners are there/what is their ownership distribution?
Let's take them to the bank, anon.

>>51433771
>Does the company make money now/does it have positive cash flow now?
I assume so. The project is almost finished, they've been paid for the hours and told me they cannot work off all the projects they work on
>How much money does the company stand to make in the future? (annually)
Don't know, 50-100 employees, custom software development
>How secure is the industry?
Given the recent economic downturn and the number of projects I'd say pretty secure
>Have you head any numbers about valuation of the company?
It's a private company, so I'm not sure probably best to go by size
>How many owners are there/what is their ownership distribution
Two owners 50/50

Where does one learn this stuff?

>>51430998
actually yes. you can't buy dignity, anon. money is worth shit once you have enough. it's like in those old video games where in the later stage of the game you didn't care about coins and rubies anymore because you had enough.
money is important when you're poor, but once you're not poor any more you should acknowledge it for what it is: a nice thing to have, but not the end-all of all desires.

>>51430978
>They hired two arab code monkeys whom I'd teach about the specific code
Work a week with them and tell the CEO they are complete shit.

>>51433947
Maybe the same place where you learned to become a national coding champion? Dipshit larper

>>51434058
if you come here you don’t give a fuck about dignity obviously that kind of shit is used as an excuse by NEET incels for being lazy loser faggots

>>51434114
On codeforces? Shut up nigger

>>51434128
keep licking boots if it makes you happy, anon. I for one know what I value in my life.

>>51433947
>I assume so. The project is almost finished, they've been paid for the hours and told me they cannot work off all the projects they work on
How big of a project is this for them? i.e. is this going to make or break their year? or make or break their company?
What happens if they fail at this project? (i.e. do they lose a good chunk of money, or is their business at risk?)
>Don't know, 50-100 employees, custom software development
ok that's pretty sizeable, I'd guess there revenue is in the high 7 figures to low 8 figures.
Would I be correct in guessing that the two owners are quite well off at this point?
>Two owners 50/50
this is great for your negotiations, not a lot of parties to work with and it sounds like they need you.
What is your impression on the outlook of future of the company if they both had to leave/step away?
Sorry for all the Q's there are a lot of factors that can determine who needs what and what would be best for you and thus what you can ask for. Negotiation is first and foremost about what do all parties want.
>Where does one learn this stuff?
almost 2 decades of working closely with small business owners and helping them figure out how to make more money. It is my true passion and I can't help but do it.

>>51434058
this guy made it
>>51434128
this guy is NGMI

>>51434305
It's a medium sized project for them but given that they use their custom backend for 50% of projects it's a big deal they can't find anyone with the knowhow
>Would I be correct in guessing that the two owners are quite well off at this point?
I haven't talked a single word with the owners up to now, but today I had separate online meetings with both of them (including roasties and the arab monkeys)
> ok that's pretty sizeable, I'd guess there revenue is in the high 7 figures to low 8 figures.
Just found it, revenue is 12 million (you were really close)

>>51434217
>forces
sounds Chinese

>>51434337
Opposite, goyim, pride doesn't earn any shekels.

>>51434661
>It's a medium sized project for them but given that they use their custom backend for 50% of projects it's a big deal they can't find anyone with the knowhow
ok so it's a big deal, and absolutely critical to their business.
As owners, their biggest personal asset (unless their independently wealthy otherwise), is their business.
A brief summary of how business valuation works for small business is needed; here it is:
Small businesses are usually valued at 3-5x earnings.
>Just found it, revenue is 12 million (you were really close)
Profitable businesses (and given the industry I'd guess they're quite profitable) make 5-10% of their revenue in profit; let's assume 5% for conservatism's sake.
5% * 12,000,000 = $600,000
Valuation (3-5x, see above) = $1.8mm - $3mm
To sell a business (and get a better price), besides profitability, you have to show buyers that it can run without the prior owners.
>they use their custom backend for 50% of projects it's a big deal they can't find anyone with the knowhow
Here's where you come in. Are you beginning to see the value you provide?
That is, if they can't run 50% of a business worth $2mm (probably more, we used the low end and you said the outlook is good) without you (specifically you, since you wrote it), how much would they be willing to pay you to help them?
In short, you helping them is probably worth a million bucks give or take.
Now, I wouldn't expect that, but there are ways to make a win/win that is much closer to that than they're going to offer you.
>today I had separate online meetings with both of them
Did they make any offers to you in terms of compensation?
If not, let them name a number first and say you'll think about it. That will show you were they're at, and you can counter from there, but AFTER you step away and think about it.

I'm not saying put the screws to them, you can make a huge win/win out of this, but in most situations, they get a better deal than they would have been willing to give.

>>51435210
Thanks man. This is some great advice. The million in worth you are talking about is per year, right? That's around $400 per hour for their breaking point

>>51430978
Charge what the job is worth, walk if they don't pay. Companies die every day, and unless they were doing something that would unequivocally make the world a better place if you did the job, it sounds pretty clear that you don't hold any sentimental feelings about the project and therefore have no moral obligation to put yourself through the ringer to save someone else's business.

Only other consideration would be how that looks to future clients. Only you can answer what sway these guys have with your client network.

>>51435969
my pleasure.
and no, not per year, that's is the one time value at risk today that you are mitigating so 50% of their business can function.
Consider asking for a part of the company in addition to cash.
Don't think in terms of hourly, think in terms of how much value you provide. Your labor is only valuable because of your thousands of hours of experience.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

>>51430978
I'm glad that Op's pic was just a pic and not a webm of the monkey getting his eyes stabbed.

>>51434128
>come here
>fuck
>obviously
>kind of shit
>NEET
>incel
>lazy loser faggots

>>51434994
retarded, false pride fucks you over, sure

>>51430978
>head dev has cancer
>CEO has long covid (femoid faggot hypochondria)
>you are our last hope

AHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHIAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>51437878
>t.goy

>>51436529
That's a man

>>51430978
they're trying to trick you into giving your work to those pajeets, don't fall for it.

>>51438909
Arabs aren’t pajeets

>>51430978
>They hired two arab code monkey
because you couldnt do it? if you can't do it, why would you be able to teach someone how to do it?...

>>51431304
This. My boss have (((long covid))) since 6 months and now he barely manage to show up at the office once a week. He looks totally miserable (weak, slow to react, pale af.. you can almost see his soul leave his body lol) and his wife is in a hurry to find a way to sell the company for a profit since 2 months. Me think they both know the boss wont make it to see 2023, so they try to secure a decent living for the kids/herself.

Obviously he's double vaxxed and double boosted with the clotshot.
Also, didn't an analyst at JPmorgan recently casually said on the talmudvision (bloomberg i think?) that "long covid" is already the most costly thing for US companies' productivity?

>>51440886
>>51431304
>>51431206
>>51431318
>>51431206
>>51430978
>long covid
Always seems to effect the same dregs on society
>dark skinned folks
>women
>inbred red neck MAGAtards who didn't get the vaccines

Always the same stupid, dumb, useless, poor, and lazy shits leeching off society and holding everyone else back.

>talented programmer
Ywnbaw

>>51440436
This is about a different project within the same custom backend

>>51442596
idk shit about programming but what's so special about their backend and can they really not just replace it with some Saas

>>51430978
>Talented programmer winning national competitions and whatnot
X. Do fizzbuzz without modulo or division.

>>51431154

This is the tech manager version of "dad bods are hot, I don't want a muscly guy"

FAANG companies have built entire tech empires on the backs code monkeys who do more or less competitive programming to get hired.


I'm not even a good at leetcode but competitive programmers do tend to correlate with knowing their shit as far as programming goes.

If you really wanted a high social skill, barely technically literate programmer to "effectively communicate with stakeholders" there are literally millions of those dudes who will work 70hrs a week for 60k

>>51431036
This
Consultant with 10x hourly rate, or even more.
They shit on your work and they have money.
Verification not required

>>51431160
>social skillz
gtf back to plebbit nigger

>>51434128
>reddit faggot loves to tongue jewish buttholes, he does it for free and won't care that the moment they don't want him he will be the first to die

>>51430978
i aint reading that.
buy avax right now.

>>51430978
The lead dev at my last workplace ran into this exact scenario. He made his code as terrible to work on as possible as he knew the goal was to replace him with the juniors (as it is with you). Squeeze them, you’re in a position of power, don’t let them treat you like garbage either

>>51441038
>I vaxxinate once a month guyyyyyyyyzzzzzzzzzz look how smart and useful I am
jewish lies

>Pride v money
The /biz/ conundrum

>>51430978
>NA
>tallented programmer
>winning NAtional competitions
it has never started

>>51441038
>holding everyone else back
>holding kikes back from enslaving and mass genociding people
don't talk for everyone dumb nigger, it is the kikes and their good dog minion consoomer hedonists like you who hold people back

>>51432206
>I'm clearly smarter than you
>Why do you need me to do this complex, technical work for you then
>Fucking Galaxy Brain tier am I
>So you can do the work yourself then can you?
>I AM VERY SMART
Lol, look at this fucker desperately trying to shove bananas down the front of his slingshot thong to compensate.