/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>51254357
>GPS--a defense system.
The Global Positioning System (GPS), originally Navstar GPS, is a satellite-based radionavigation system not a defense system.
>It is as powerful as nation state militaries
Bitcoin has no Military and no Military gets paid in BTC
>Precision timing.
Time to finality for transactions is like 60 minutes
>Ethereum is not the same.
Ethereum Mining has the same flaws as BTC mining
>It is not stronger.
Proof of Work has flaws, its not perfect. every PoW chain suffers from the same problems, like MEV, selfish mining, censorship, centralization on the hardware (ASICS, GPUs) and software level (centralized miningpools).

>>51254402

>>51254357
Bitcoin is done for three simple reasons
>extremely high price for one coin with an insanely high market cap
Etherium showed you that everything above a few thousand is doomed to stagnate or fall. While you can't really apply this to Bitcoin, you still have to remember that even with all the pump Bitcoin was not even dick touching the $100k
>Proof of FUCKING WORK
This system is not up to date and with the rising energy prices and regulations it could even be that owning Bitcoin will become a crime. Until Bitcoin has proof of stake, it is a potential Luna3.0 coin that goes into the ground.
>really low transactions per second
Bitcoin is simply too slow to be considered the go to crypto. If you want to make crypto the new way of transaction, you can't claim the no.1 spot for long if you are to slow to compete against the BBC (Big Business Card aka Credit Card).

I simply don't see why anyone cares about Bitcoin as a way to invest money. The coin needs INSANE amount of new investors to even climb a little bit. If you throw 100 billion $ into pretty much any other coin, you have INSANE green arrows to the moon. If you throw 100 billion into Bitcoin, you create a small dent. It's simply already too big to grow in regards to crypto.

Also don't even get me started with trash like Doge where every second you hold this trash coin you lose money because it has infinite money printing.

Bitcoin is a military.

The first principles view of any military action is projecting power--transferring joules. (I see you link marines--Juels).

Physics is blind to the distinction between offense and defense. There is fundamentally no distinction between kinetic power projection and electric power projection.

All civilization, all living creatures, obey the social consensus protocol that those who project the most kinetic power in the most clever way earn the right to set the state and chain of custody of limited resources.

No one gets the option to unsubscribe from this social consensus protocol--real resources are a necessity. Power is a necessity. Proof of work is a necessity.

>>51254529
>you can't claim the no.1 spot for long if you are to slow to compete against the BBC
Are you saying BTC needs to be built for BBC?

>>51254529
>rising energy prices
In bitcoin-denominated terms it becomes cheaper and cheaper to mine bitcoin over time. It is cheaper now to mine bitcoin with an AntMiner than it was to mine with USB miners in the past (in bitcoin-denominated terms).

>>51254402
>Bitcoin has no Military and no Military gets paid in BTC
Bitcoin spends around $20M per day on buying energy for security, around $70M at the peak. When Bitcoin spends more on energy than the US military, it will become the most powerful military in the world.

>>51254770
>for security
the amount of energy wasted actually adds nothing to the security of the ledger.

>>51254357
You cannot even use BTC it’s so shit like you retard scam grfo here nigger

>>51254820
>the amount of energy wasted
how is it wasted, the energy is confirming transactions on the blockchain
>adds nothing to the security of the ledger.
How does adding and confirming blocks not add security to the network? It's quite literally the function of the network

>>51254820
The energy is used to:
* secure the validity of present modifications to the ledger through unforgeable costliness of block creation
* secure the validity of the past transactions on the ledger as each block references and attests to a previous block
* secure the credibility of the distribution of a new currency by using claims of energy that a receipt for receiving newly minted bitcoin. This is the only way a new currency can be initially distributed without a central party as energy is distributed around the world.
* secure the credibility of the monetary policy by building a decentralised arrow of time that is anchored to the real world via the difficulty adjustment. This arrow of time is used for decentralised timekeeping within the system (eg. halvening schedule, difficulty adjustment window, time-locked contracts, hashed time-locked contracts used for the lightning network, descreet log contracts ...).

It is impossible to do anything of theses things in a decentralised way without a claim on energy. Bitcoin bids for cheap energy in the same way the US government bids for energy to fuel its aircraft carriers but is does so without being dependent on any particular type of energy, weather the energy is intermittent or reliability, weather the energy is at the bottom of the ocean or at the top of a volcano, Bitcoin doesn't care. Bitcoin bids for absolute Joules and so will be able to spend a lot less than the US in order to achieve the same level of security.

There is no second best.

>>51254944
Fucking Michael Saylor here of all places.

>>51254930
>the energy is confirming transactions on the blockchain
in a very wasteful process called mining.
>How does adding and confirming blocks not add security to the network?
you just waste huge amounts of energy to make the next block and the network can still be centralized, like through miningpools right now. so it doesnt really add that much to security, its basically proof of stake with extra steps.
>It's quite literally the function of the network
Proof of Work is just a sybil control mechanism to prevent too many miners to join the network and 51% it. its kinda just very expensive spam protection.
>>51254944
>It is impossible to do anything of theses things in a decentralised way without a claim on energy.
actually it is possible, the Avalanche Consensus family is doing it, they use around 46 households worth of Electricity and have the highest Nakamoto Coefficient.
Because Avalanche is leaderless and a Block can be proposed at any time it has sub second finality and can scale to millions of independent node operators.
>There is no second best.
actually when it comes to Consensus Protocols and functionality its easy to argue that Avalanche is truly superior in about every metric as it is not held back by the trilemma caused by leader based consensus like classical or nakamoto has, its an entirely new way to consensus.

>>51254357
btc needs ntp stratum to function properly
are you dumb?

>>51255116
>you just waste huge amounts of energy to make the next block and the network can still be centralized, like through miningpools right now. so it doesnt really add that much to security, its basically proof of stake with extra steps.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/51-attack-bleeds-more-than-5m-from-ethereum-classic
https://www.cryptopolitan.com/51-percent-attack-on-the-bitcoin-sv-network/
https://messari.io/report/vertcoin-suffers-another-51-attack

>>51254529
> rising energy prices
That’s fine, only means less energy will be consumed for the same amount of security, since it’s the cost of electricity that secures the blockchain. A lower hashrate is not less secure if it is equally costly to obtain.

>>51254820
> actually
That word doesn’t free you from the burden of backing up your claim, and doesn’t save you from appearing like a fool when you fail to do so.

bitcoin is toast and i don't care if maxi zealots go broke

>>51255116
>you just waste huge amounts of energy to make the next block and the network can still be centralized,
Okay go ahead and try. Oh wait, you can't afford the energy costs?
>like through miningpools right now.
1. how are mining pools centralized?
2. how are mining pools wasting energy?
> its kinda just very expensive spam protection.
anon discovers byzantine fault tolerance 101


Just admit you're a stupid dumb shillfag scum, and Avalanche won't save you.

>>51255261
t. can't look ahead 10 years
many such cases

>>51254944
Bravo.

>>51255278
nice argument faggot

>>51254535
Look at the big brain on OP. Well done. BTC is a little too "high brow" for biz but it is nice to see a real player character for a change.

>>51255251
explained it in a follow up post >>51255116 read the thread before posting.
>>51255261
>Okay go ahead and try.
its already been done. pic related.
>1. how are mining pools centralized?
the pool is the one in control of transaction selection for blocks
>2. how are mining pools wasting energy?
Proof of work is a very energy intense operation. it works but it is very wasteful and as it has been already demonstrated there is a better solution around now.
>anon discovers byzantine fault tolerance 101
I explained it to you because you dont seem to understand what Proof of Work is.
>and Avalanche won't save you.
you dont have to be mad at me that better tech exists now. go do some research.

>>51255116
Ohh now I see you’re an avax baggie who thinks Emin has solved the trilemma. Sorry bud, no wonder you’re seething about Btc since it’s teaming up with your arch nemesis to make Avax completely obsolete. Perhaps you can hire some more sleasy lawyers to try and take down Btc, as “solving the trilemma” doesn’t seem to do the trick on its own (hint: it would be quite enough to flip Btc AND Eth in an instant if Emin had done anything remotely of the sort. This is also a clue for the Kda baggies).

>>51255314
> explained it in a follow up post
Oh yes you revealed yourself to be a delusional Avax baggie alright

>>51255281
see >>51255257

>>51255299
t. rube

>>51255319
>>51255335
>seething
>delusional
you've described the average bitcoin maxi as they've watched their bags bleed endlessly against "alts"

>>51255314
> he pool is the one in control of transaction selection for blocks
Pool participants are not beholden to a pool, if a pool starts to censor transactions people pick another pool. This is so obvious that no pools have tried mucking with the protocol or censoring transactions.

>>51255314
>its already been done. pic related.
wow pools are comprised of one person? Not a bunch of induvial actors who can leave at will? Fascinating picture you've provided

>the pool is the one in control of transaction selection for blocks
yes, and people can leave pools at will. If the pool has an agenda... wait what the fuck is even your point here?
>Proof of work is a very energy intense operation. it works
Yes!

>and as it has been already demonstrated there is a better solution around now.
No it hasn't faggot, prove it here and now.
>you dont seem to understand what Proof of Work is.
energy = work. cry more


>go do some research.
I did and you are found lacking and I am found wanting. Go be retarded elsewhere

>>51255344
lol the king isn’t going anywhere, whereas you can take your double spending, double dealing, back stabbing, underhanded lawyer using, copycatting, trilemma frauding, nuclear war surviving roach coin and stick a fork in it, cuz it’s done.

>>51254944
lmao bitmaxis are dumb and more importantly, deluded beyond belief.
The Work in PoW serves as an anyispam mechanism AND a self selection "lottery like" function for block production. That is all.
The energy is not used to secure the past.
The chain is secured by cryptography.
It does not "secure the credibility of the distribution" either. Bitcoin was mined by the thousands in 2010, does the fact that 1s of PoW was performed by a random anon important for the credibility?

Sure I agree its one good way to decentralize a distribution. But it does not make it magically fair or credible.

Halvings are nothing but retarded. Period. An abrupt slashing of 50% of rewards, arbitrarily every 4 years... is arbitrary. It's brutal and not thought for stability.

There is a second best, it is called Bitcoin.

Monero does everything better. Number 1 monetary policy. Significantly more efficient PoW algorithm, fairer distribution. Not mentionning long term security vs Bitcoin. The energy spending competition that is decentralized PoW is simply more developed for Monero, than for Bitcoin. And I have not even talked about bonus of privacy.

Bitcoin is the second best.

>>51255319
>>51255335
maybe do your own research instead of just repeating what angry butthurt shills told you on twitter. with that approach its easy to miss new developments.
Technology evolves and Avalanche is the furthest we are right now.
you can continue and cope with this or accept it and act accordingly.
>>51255354
its still centralization no matter how you twist and turn it.
>people pick another pool.
there isnt that many pools around as you can see in the picture here >>51255314

>>51255344
most of these people have the Problem that they only do a little bit research once and then never again and then just keep repeating what they think they learned ages ago.
>>51255379
>who can leave at will?
and go where?
there arent that many pools around. are you also blind that I have to repeat this to you too?
>If the pool has an agenda...
is already happening, here is a recent example:
https://www.financialexpress.com/digital-currency/ethereum-miner-ethermine-stops-processing-sanctioned-transactions/2638120/
>prove it here and now.
https://www.avalabs.org/whitepapers
>I did
you clearly didnt, you arent the type of person to do actual research.

>>51255426
>and go where?
start your own? you realize anybody can mine bitcoin, right?
>is already happening, here is a recent example:
wow ETH is a shitcoin, good job retard

Go shove your "white paper" up your ass, it proves nothing. You have no arguments and need to appeal to authority

>>51255446
>you realize anybody can mine bitcoin
its all about the Hash rate.
just because you have 1 miner doesnt mean you have any meaningful impact on decentralization. its still centralized through miningpools and people dont leave them, why?
because miners dont actually give a shit, they just want to make money.
>wow ETH is a shitcoin
point is Proof of Work has big flaws.
>Go shove your "white paper" up your ass, it proves nothing.
not my problem you are too brainlet to read it.
>You have no arguments
you asked for proof and I gave you proof, now you are mad because the proof is too complicated for you and doesnt align with your worldview.
any other ad homs and copes you want to tell me about?

>>51255426
There are plenty of pools, you don’t have to mine in pools, and if you don’t have access to exchanges or need to be anonymous you can always mine bitcoin at a premium if your electricity is expensive. Pools are in effect just profit sharing protocols, evening out payouts. It’s more decentralized than any other crypto network, and you know it.
> muh advanced tech, muh whitepaper, old btc maxis just don’t keep up
You fell for an old school scam, fren. The trilemma works like this: you can have scalability, decentralization and security, all at the same time. Bitcoin has great security and decentralization, but it doesn’t have NO scalability. The trilemma states that at some point, when your performance on all three is *high enough* you can no longer improve on one without sacrificing another. This is simply a logical fact and to state you have “solved” it is like claiming you “solved the spacetime dilemma” and you know how to increase your velocity through space without decreasing your velocity through time. Any informed reader would know you’d be a kook or a fraud, whereas sci-fi readers may invest the farm. What any non-fraud might claim is that they have found another optimum on the balance between the qualities, not to have discoupled them completely - like Emin (and Kadena) does.
Here’s the funniest part: Bitcoin is the undisputed king of security and decentralization, but it could do better on scalability, that’s what you and a lot of /biz/raelis think, right? Only 7 tps, pfft what a dinosaur! And of course, it’s that pesky trilemma in the way of higher tps, if only a genius like Emin could come along and solve it!
But wait…isn’t there a really simple way to double the tps - the scalability - of Bitcoin? What if you just double the block size? That would lead to double the tps. Now let’s pause here and note that defining scalability as tps, any solution that doubles the scalability by definition doubles the tps. (1/2)

>>51255626
the trilemma was solved with Avalanche because it works completely different than other consensus protocols.
in the time you took to write up your clueless nonsense and bad comparisons you could have easily read the Avalanche Consensus whitepaper.

here is a short video about it if reading is too hard for you
https://youtu.be/4GIsieFUXMw

>>51255626
So why not just double the block size (or more) like Craig and other “big blockers” want? The answer, if you followed the “block size wars”, is that we actually don’t want to many transactions spamming the global value settlement layer. Most importantly, it makes it less easy to verify the whole of the ledger the faster it grows, which ultimately translates to reduced security. Secondly it makes it harder to participate in mining - not only do you need access to cheap electricity, now you also need access to enormously fat Internet pipes and big data centers - sacrificing decentralization. This was the argument against going with bigger blocks - Bitcoin doesn’t want higher tps because we shouldn’t want our global settlement layer to have higher tps. Bitcoin could easier have drastically higher tps - just ask Craig - but the truth is that the reason it doesn’t has nothing to do with the trilemma directly, and has everything to do with what characteristics are desirable for a global value layer. Remember that any solution that claims better scalability than Bitcoin by supporting higher tps will, simply by merit of supporting higher tps, be less suitable than Bitcoin for what Bitcoin does. Any competitor who brags about higher tps (especially those who talk about solving trilemmas) should be reminded that so can Craig, with basically a one line change to Btc, and if they claim they are more secure or decentralized than Bitcoin they should be laughed out of the room. This means that people like Emin, who do understand all this, know about the block size wars, and definitely know better than to pretend to have solved trilemmas, are frauds. Cold and simple. I’m not kidding or fudding, and pure scams make millionaires in crypto, so if you made a buck then good on you, but I’m absolutely serious when I say everything I said is true, Emin knows it, and that means he is a fraud.

>>51255679
I know exactly what Avax does and to pretend that a bunch of statistical (not cryptographic) tricks would not reduce security would be laughable if it were not so sad that the whole thing is such an obvious fraud. That is since Emin knows full well that if the trilemma and Bitcoin scalability were a problem, then Craig has already solved it with a one-liner change to Bitcoin, so his whole trilemma solving shitcoin is just doing something Bitcoin can already do in a much simpler way, since such performance is WELL WITHIN what you can do without running up against the trilemma, and if anyone wanted that Craig would be a billionaire.

>>51255730
>I know exactly what Avax does
Doesnt sound like you do, now go do some actual research and stop wasting my time.
You can reply to me when you read the Whitepaper.

>>51255739
>please, just pretty please read this paper instead of talking to me because I am to stupid to understand it nor take responsibility for my arguments when I can just point to this white paper instead

It is a bag transfer from today to a bigger fool in the future

Cap

>>51255746
Not my problem you dont have the brain to take up new information.
Go annoy someone else or come back with actual arguments.

>>51255739
I’ve read it several times over the years, junior. Now tell me in your own words how you think Emin “solves the trilemma”.

>>51255762
>Not my problem you dont have the brain to take up new information.
I did that first you dumb nigger, >>51255379
>No it hasn't faggot, prove it here and now.
and you've done nothing but link your retarded paper. You're a broken record of retardation

>>51255762
How about you address my arguments that make everything stated in the whitepaper completely irrelevant?

>>51255776
No you didnt, if you did you wouldnt write down wall of texts full of dumb shit.
>>51255779
Go read the whitepaper, if you dont plan to do that stop replying to me.
I dont want to waste more time on your outdated drivel.

>>51255810
I have read the whole white paper, can you please tell me which part you think proves you have a point?

>>51255420
>The energy is not used to secure the past.
Energy is used to secure the past, because a new block candidate has to attest to a previous block, ensuring a single history of transactions. There is always a small probably of re-org a few blocks deep. That's why waiting for more confirmations ensures that your transaction is more secure. It is even mentioned in the Bitcoin white paper. Pic related.
>The chain is secured by cryptography.
For specifically, cryptographic hash functions which can only be reversed by expending large amounts of energy brute forcing every possible input. The output that achieves the partial collision that satisfies the difficulty requirement is the proof of work.
>It does not "secure the credibility of the distribution" either.
This is about making sure the distribution and monetary policy is credible in the future, not about making it "fair". By anchoring the target schedule of block production to the real world via the difficulty adjustment, it means that we can predict with a reasonable degree of accuracy when the next halvening will occur and the issuance rate of Bitcoin in 2042. It takes the monetary policy away from politics.
>Halvings are nothing but retarded. Period. An abrupt slashing of 50% of rewards, arbitrarily every 4 years... is arbitrary. It's brutal and not thought for stability.
The halvenings are not able stability. It is about ensuring that the system is anti-fragile and is able to survive a nation state attack. The halvenings force the market to select highly efficient miners that can withstand 50% reduction in revenue. The halvenings also align with the US presidential election cycles and generates a supply shock that triggers hype cycles with diminishing effects with future halvenings. If you're mining and can't plan for 4 years into the future, you're NGMI.
>Monero does everything better.
The free market disagrees. You can shill your favourite shitcoin without talking shit in a Bitcoin thread.

>>51255810
Also be aware that
>>> read the whitepaper!
>> I have
> …n-nuh huh!!!
Is one of the true classics in Internet technical arguments and you end up looking like a fool every time you rely on that bluff.

>>51255834
>>51255855
>I have read the whole white paper
you clearly didnt my mentally handicapped friend, if you had actually read it you wouldnt have written down the dumb shit that you did.

>>51254357
based and true.
Bitcoin - only currency that matters

>>51255420
moNEGRO - token not needed
t. he doesn't know about coinjoin (nor LN privacy possibilities)

why don't you paste some monero (((babes))) posters to (((prove))) your point

>>51254944
>the energy is used to...
>* secure the validity of present modifications to the ledger through unforgeable costliness of block creation
POS does the same without wasting energy
>* secure the validity of the past transactions on the ledger as each block references and attests to a previous block
POS does the same without wasting energy
>* secure the credibility of the distribution of a new currency by using claims of energy that a receipt for receiving newly minted bitcoin. This is the only way a new currency can be initially distributed without a central party as energy is distributed around the world.
distribution phase is already over https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb
moving to a better consensus algo is a no-brainer
>* secure the credibility of the monetary policy by building a decentralised arrow of time that is anchored to the real world via the difficulty adjustment. This arrow of time is used for decentralised timekeeping within the system (eg. halvening schedule, difficulty adjustment window, time-locked contracts, hashed time-locked contracts used for the lightning network, descreet log contracts ...).
halvings only work until Bitcoin cant pay for its security - it is not a "credible monetary policy"

brainlet

>>51255841
nice

>>51255998
Please quote one thing I wrote that is incompatible with the whitepaper. Please also cite the part of the whitepaper it is incompatible with.

>>51254357
GPS is not a defense system brainlet. It is a positioning system. Ethereum and bitcoin are different, but QANplatform is best.
> Quantum resistant

>>51256080
>>* secure the validity of present modifications to the ledger through unforgeable costliness of block creation
>POS does the same without wasting energy
nope - it just creates a club of "rich getting richer" and "trust the rich".
How the fuck can you be this dumb, faggot.

>>51254357
Bitcoin is best but eventually miners will abandon it. There is no solution to this (yet).

>>51256080
eat the bugs
troon the kids
and repeat after me
>POS does the same without wasting energy
anon please read a book, grow some brain cells, and maybe then come back for less NPC so'y swalloing discussion

>>51256263
>rich getting richer
yearly issuance is 0.5% and APY for stakers is barely competitive with any other way to deploy capital like participating in defi, real estate, stocks, whatever.
you think the big mining farms are average joes, or do you think they are huge operations with better profit margins than you? not a hard question, delusional fuck
furthermore, POS is equitable - meaning you can stake what you have and get the same returns as someone who is rich - there is no skewed profit margins from economy of scale or demographic advantages
>trust the rich
?
>How the fuck can you be this dumb, faggot.
this coming from someone who can't into second order thinking? "nooo the stakers are getting richer", literally think one degree further and the same applies to mining, or wealth/any asset in general

>>51256300 checked
i wont discuss fundumentals with you, caus u just lack POW knowledge
but tell me this whats the difference beteeen mining pools and eth stacking pools?

>>51254944
bravo.

>>51256278
second thread you shit up with your le 4chan schizo rhetoric - say one thing of consequence or meaning, I dare you, npc

>>51256300
>issuance
lol!
fucking LMAO!

>hey guys use my chain that I and my rich buddies control ok?
>we ASSURE you we will be good!
>look it even says so here in a SMART CONTRACT!
>...on the chain that I can rewind or whatever
toppest kek

Banking shabas club - reinvented.
No, thanks.

>>51256308
>i won't discuss fundamentals
not surprised
>differences
you tell me

>>51256324
not even midwit territory

>>51256318
thank god i still have a place to shit on educated high IQ fellows as yourself
we know u didnt read the standard though
and u cant tell usury, caus u blind by greed

>>51256341
u not getting >trust the rich
is what positions u to be blind
look at the fucking founders, eth vs btc, who do u trust?

>>51256341
>>>51256324 (You)
>the rich rule is the best, just t-trust me!!!
>do not verify, trust!
that's why shitcoiners are shitcoiners.

>>51256366
>the bitcoin standard
really, this shit again?
POW is not adding value, it is a mechanism to coerce people to agree on the next correct block, nothing else - you can achieve the same by having something at stake. The reason you are so confused is because its called "mining" and has "work" in it - reality is that its "waste".

>>51256397
>POW is not adding value
anything else is banking with extra steps, you dumb nigger, central bank currency glower

>>51256432
first order thinker pls go I literally cannot have a conversation with you if this is what the level is

>>51256436
>>>51256432
>>*facts I disagree with*
>first order thinker pls go I literally cannot have a conversation with you if this is what the level is

>no proof needed, we will just trust the guys who bought in first!
ok Abraham

>>51256397
here for some thoughts regarding difference of pools
https://youtu.be/gyP0uxxB6V8?t=1578

>you can achieve the same by having something at stake
look dude, u just don't get it
tell me then, why don't we have a POS from 2009 ? if its the same, was there some tech break through since 2009?
why suddenly POS is the name of the game? what changed?
you answer, climate change, we can't "waste" energy, well this is political
anyhow, can we still run POW according to your world view? do you think POW will disappear ?

>>51256449
>facts
:-D
>no proof needed, we will just trust the guys who bought in first!
miners have profit margins
these profit margins are better depending on scale
this means people with a lot of money have better profit margins than you
this means the people with means "control the network" (I wouldn't use this word because mining/staking isn't governance, but I'm meeting you at eye level (blockchain illiteracy) to help you understand)
this also means the people who control the network amass wealth disproportionately to you, ultimately giving them more "power" over the network

>>51256436
your worship of POS, and absolute disregard to the entities playing the game, their political agenda, and their past actions is what makes the discussion with ya stuck in the mud.
u keep saying POS POS POS
u can't understand the other point of view if you keep blindly worshiping a false idol like that
you are deep in the political thoughts of those POS pushers u should take a shower in the roots of cypherpunk and the ideas bitcoin came from, and those POS overloards for sure ain't gonna teach ya

>>51256503
Hashpower doesnt equal authoritarian centralized control of the BTC network protocol retard

Seethe cope and dilate over garbage POS

>>51256463
>custodial pools
decentralized pools exist

>non-custodial pools
stETH and other staking derivatives are only prevalent because retaining liquidity matters until withdrawals are enabled - the community has already signaled it will slash any potential dissenters/censorship attacks in the meantime, so there is no practical risk

>why suddenly POS is the name of the game? what changed?
nothing? that's just how long it took to figure out and implement - the plan to move to POS has been there since the beginning
>you answer, climate change, we can't "waste" energy, well this is political
its not that hard: if I can choose to waste obscene amounts of energy on a coin that has orders of magnitude less utility, throughput and use to an alternative, why would I? I'm a pragmatic person, I haven't had any Bitcoin since 2017 simply because I saw the writing on the wall - if you start actually looking at the reality of what ETH and BTC are instead of listening to retards like Michael Saylor and other ponzi cultists, you'll sleep soundly holding ETH.

>anyhow, can we still run POW according to your world view? do you think POW will disappear ?
I mean we have an energy crisis so it'd be supremely stupid to do so when we have the alternative ready in 2 weeks - from a utilitarian perspective the energy going to one bitcoin transaction vs supporting real people with the same energy - it's a nobrainer, fuck the miners. Don't care about miners who do it sustainably I guess, but if policy had to be made, it should be from a utility priority perspective.

>>51256503
i sincerely hope that you won't become a btc cultists once u understand POW

they got heavy cannons >>>51255391
and i myself am still debating wether trying to accumulate more sats via this whole eth shenanigans is worth the risk of being rugged by the (()).

>>51256517
its so funny to watch you pretend bitcoin is where the cypherpunks are
they have ALL braindrained to ETH, open your fucking eyes
go to a bitcoin conference, go to bitcoin twitter, go to any bitcoin community - it is insane how blind/out of touch you are to hold this view

>>51256553
precisely! just like stake doesn't! as I say in the literal post you quote: mining/staking isn't governance

>>51256585
> we have an energy crisis
> from a utilitarian perspective
> vs supporting real people with the same energy
this is your brain on WEF agenda
u are listening to snakes
all your other points are moot, and a childs play
wake the fuck up

>>51256602
rugged by who? ETH is decentralized even if you keep pretending it isn't
literally just expose yourself to how it works - there's dev and researcher calls weekly on youtube, research forums, EIP process, multiple client teams, etc.
the EF's stated mission is literally to subtract from itself - it supports the ecosystem - it doesn't dictate it

>>51256621
no nigger, u ain't listening
> watch you pretend bitcoin is where the cypherpunks are
i didn't say that. i said bitcoin history. the roots.
i don't care about your current twitter and community
scene is dead, and been for a while

>>51256648
>the energy shortage is a HOAX
...is that *really* what you are saying?

>>51256656
wat is USDC?
wat is tornado?
U r blind if you believe what ya wrote in the post
pic related

and you will see, after merge ((media)) is gonna pump all those ideas u speak of in this thread to the normies

>>51256666
>i didn't say that. i said bitcoin history. the roots.
its thriving in the ETH ecosystem right now
I don't get it - where is the aversion coming from? I literally work in the industry and talk to these people on the daily - they are unironically giga cypherpunks
its so clown world honestly

>>51256676
>what are these these things built on a permissionless platform
why are you holding Ethereum accountable? lmao

>>51256683
how many of those chuds vaxxed?
how did you like psy op corona bieng locked in your house ?
or you some rich faggot who care not for the plebs , and thinks they won't come after your FAGGOT programming friends?

>>51256683
how many of your colleagus even know who stallman is ?

>>51256701
>vaxxed
kek what
3x vaxmaxxed here btw
>how did you like psy op corona bieng locked in your house ?
idk in my non-schizo country we just took measures until the hospitals weren't being overrun and then happily moved on - the asocials paranoid schizophrenics crying over wearing a mask were a minority and considered lunatics by the majority population including me
>or you some rich faggot who care not for the plebs , and thinks they won't come after your FAGGOT programming friends?
elaborate?

>>51256706
I would have to ask? XD

>>51256731
>3x vaxmaxxed here
no surprised
u probably did the same amount of research about the vax that you did about POS, kek

>elaborate?
i just went of the rails abit, caus i still have lots of hate, toward most of society that just seems to be blinded by the snakes and keeps programming itself in to a prison cell. and i mean literally programming ( FANG and shit ) prison cells. sometimes I think life could have been easier not encountering stallman nor satoshi. anyhow this is life in clown world. peace to your friend and family.

>>51256782
>u probably did the same amount of research about the vax that you did about POS, kek
what research? I'm a layman, I use heuristics - e.g. the processes in place to ensure medical procedures are safe, the amount of countries arriving at roughly the same conclusion, etc.
its either that or listen to rural american facebook soccer moms scream about conspiracies, and I know where my brain leads me - another heuristic is how batshit insane antivaxxers are in general - how do they talk, look, what do they also believe, etc.

>>51256802
>its either that or listen to
how do you account for censorship and propaganda in your selection of views?
are you aware of outlandish conspiracies being used as a tool to distract from factual information?
what are your thoughts regarding mkultra ?
why are drugs banned in your opinion ?
are you familiar with the early history of google or facebook ?

>>51256841
>how do you account for censorship and propaganda in your selection of views?
again I just rely on heuristics - the coordination effort required to mislead me on this level is not feasible - it would have to involve doctors, many governments, news outlets, etc. - all of which are comprised of regular people, e.g. I have personally spoken to an editor of a major Danish newpaper while watching my brother play soccer, see him once in a while walking around in my neighbourhood and so on - my sister is a doctor - the idea that people like this are coordinating to mislead me is outrageous.
the world is much more likely just a mix of disconnected incentives that tend to skew in favor of a few powerful people with money, but there's nothing coordinated or otherwise deliberate about it

>>51256887
>nothing coordinated or otherwise deliberate about it
just a coincidence, our boy gates, is deep into bankrupting the SOVL of free software and now he is after our body autonomy. just a coincidence. nothing to worry about. just take another booster. everything will be fine.
I see what you mean. And i was wrong. Thanks for explaining it to me. Yeah, your sister probably did think deeply about the vax, and decided by her own opinion its safe and effective. Thanks for comforting me in such times. You are awesome. thanks for the gold.

>>51256942
you have my sympathy but take your meds and touch grass, honestly

>>51256731
> 3x vaxmaxxed here btw
then your opinions are not of any value. sorry. you are pleb IQ and fell for propaganda. you trusted the gobermint of blinds. whenever someone says he is vaccinated you can instantly disregard all his opinions because they are not his own. he runs on propaganda programming set by the mainstream media.

>> he actually took 3 vaccines
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Proof of work is permissionless. there needs to be no further discussion. you'll derive the further conclusions by doing some actual research. Proof of work is the innovation. proof of stake is fractional reserve banking, the rich get richer and control everything 2.0 mega (((GOY))) system. of course the many have not enough mental capacity to understand this. sadly. and once I too was conviced proof of stake was superior when i was new 4 years ago. then i did actual research.

>>51256982
oh the comforts of being part of society are long gone for me
maybe one day i'll be blessed with folk of my own,
till then i am glad you have those comforts, and i take my own path on this earth, with as much honesty to my soul as i can gather

>>51254357
Its a scratch off lottery ticket printed on the energy grid. We're basically burning electricity to feed a gambling addiction tied directly to electricity.

>>51257389
mitwit take

>>51254529
you're insanely retarded
I don't think you're even midwit level

>>51257079
moNEGRO - token not needed.

At least this fag understands PoW. Wil he get enlighten one day?

>>51257594
fwiw he's nowhere near as retarded as the average bitcoin holder

>>51254357

>>51254820
>Goes for all blockchain ledgers
As well as its privacy. Publicly visible to a fault with obvious security implications and rights breach.

>>51254357
I put everything I get into Bitcoin and keep a few grand in cash.

Bitcoin offers something 98% of people who buy it don’t even understand, and 100% of those who don’t buy it don’t understand.

I believe 98% of those who buy bitcoin purely do it thinking it’s all about making money and that’s it, that they’ll be able to sell it to someone else, and that’s all that care about, they don’t actually understand bitcoin.


Here’s the thing

Bitcoin is literally property, a form of value, that you can move infinite amounts of wealth anywhere to anyone, and you can hold infinite amounts of wealth with a few words written down, that you can take anywhere anytime, and you don’t have to worry about a bitcoin being “fake”

You cannot do this with land, property, gold, art, or any other collectable item. Land/property can always be taken from you, and you cant take it with you, think of landlords in Ukraine right now. Gold comes with its own logistic issues, and it another thing you can’t take with it without being robbed at the airport. Art and collectables can be faked, but even if they’re real, they can easily be damage, and they can only be sold at auctions where the auctioneers take a massive cut (20-30%+) fees, and again, art and collections as investments come with their own logistical issues.

The more dangerous and chaotic the world comes, the more valuable bitcoin is.


It is unironically the perfect asset, and whole retail poorfags and normies lose interest in it, you can guarantee smart people in the know, and the elite and super wealthy, understand how powerful it is and how important it is for them to have some.

>>51258317
that whole narrative ignores the fact that Ethereum does the same thing with 10000x more utility, less inflation, more users, way higher throughput, economically and environmentally sustainably, etc.

>>51258317
its only 'wealth' as long as you can trade it for goods (which you currently do by trading for fiat first). In other words it is faith based just like fiat and gold. You are retarded

>>51257687
I actually use MONEGRO. token very needed.

>>51258362
ethereum moving to proof of stake makes it an permissioned network. go learn.

>>51256676
>wat is tornado?
Well, there are completely decentralized smart contract privacy protocols that works with base Ethereum alone; no validators or nodes besides the base ethereum network nodes, unlike the case with mixers.

>>51258429
already spent 20 posts here explaining how you are wrong, reply to those

>>51258436
i am not talking about tornado as the protocol. i am talking about the shenanigans that happened with it in last month ( github ban etc...)

>>51258465
yo nigger, I told you already. if you don't understand the difference between POW and POS, there is no point in having a discussion with ya. ya blinded by consuming so.y. don't know your history. and your repeated POS POS POS just adds to your retardation. go care for the environment somewhere else. and check maybe there is a new booster u need to get.

>>51258717
I have rationalized everything I've said, argue specifics or direct your mental illness elsewhere

>>51258734
ethereum funded by the co founder of paypal
satoshi was inspired by freedom
do you argree? u mongolid retard

This whole thread is a bottoming signal. The accelerating cycles theory might be worth looking into after all.

>>51258780
what the fuck are you talking about / why is that incriminating?

>>51258436
>Arguably the most secure privacy solution with a major highlight on 'secure'
>No node, no bridge, no validator
Reminds me of Railgun. Entirely consistent with its fundamentals.

>>51258872
>He dropped out of university in 2014 when he was awarded with a grant of $100,000 from the Thiel Fellowship, a scholarship created by venture capitalist Peter Thiel and went to work on Ethereum full-time.
ye, peter thiel is such good soul, has you and me in mind, when sponsoring rising talent like vitalik. and he probably just gave it for free and didn't get anything back, caus he such a good soul.
stop being a fucking pos geek and take a look around the reality u participate in, u r being fooled

>>51259145
hahaha so he gave him a personal grant and now you think he is Vitaliks puppet master? you know you are a complete maniac, right?

>>51259301
nigger we live in separate realities
they convinced you to take 3 mrna shots with absolute lies
and you will keep doing whatever you are told, yesterday is a vax, today is pos, and tomorrow u keep on dancing.
coming here as if u are looking for some intellectual discussion regarding pos
can't comprehend the trap u and your folk are being lured to

>>51256683
Hahaha yes, the blue haired, fifty-gendered demonkin tranny brigade who can’t code, they are such cypherpunks!
Buddy you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

>>51256747
If you have to ask that means you were full of shit all along and don’t know anything about these probably non-existing colleagues and nothing about what cypherpunk is.
You just BTFO yourself and you don’t even know it.

>>51259581
I know zero people fitting this charicature but keep dreaming

>>51259600
unbelievable cringe, do you think we sit around talking about how cypherpunk we are? I'm employed, I'm there to work, but the work itself genuinely prioritizes maximum decentralization and price talk isn't even a factor, which is why its so fucking cringe to listen to Bitcoiners pretend they "have the culture" - you don't, you have blockchain illiterate ponzi shills

>>51259705
> do you think we sit around talking about how cypherpunk we are?
No, which why I’m also calling your bluff that you would know anything about that. At best you made big assumptions, but more likely you are just making things up. You certainly don’t give me the impression you can code.
> I'm employed, I'm there to work, but the work itself genuinely prioritizes maximum decentralization
Sure it does, buddy, and I’m sure you’re right in the thick of it with your technical know-how. Quick which approach should you take to continue your larp
> I-I work in a blockchain company, despite not even getting the basics
Or
> A-actually when I said I work with “decentralization” I just meant “distribution”..
Well, which is it? Or don’t you even realize why you have to pick some way to back track a bit in your lies?

>>51259777
>No, which why I’m also calling your bluff that you would know anything about that. At best you made big assumptions, but more likely you are just making things up. You certainly don’t give me the impression you can code.
I'm actually a dev you gigaclown, you think cypherpunk equates to jerking off about richard stallman? enter the real world you absolute loser
>Sure it does, buddy, and I’m sure you’re right in the thick of it with your technical know-how. Quick which approach should you take to continue your larp
> I-I work in a blockchain company, despite not even getting the basics
> A-actually when I said I work with “decentralization” I just meant “distribution”..
??????????????? one non-schizo enter the chat please what the fuck am I talking to

>>51259705
> I know zero people fitting this charicature but keep dreaming
So you don’t even work in tech. Or wait, I know: you’re in rural dumbfuck Norway or some shit and think you’re up to date with what the modern world is doing? No wonder they filled you up with vax, you’d believe anything from a place of authority.
> Norwegian media: the tech business isn’t full of trannies, the vax is good for you and anyone who doubts that is a schizophrenic conspiracy nut, and PoS is great for the climate and has no issues
> (You): I knew it!

>>51259811
> real world
> cypherpunk
I’m pointing out that you in your “real world” have no experience and no touch points with the world you pretend to know so much about. You are a poser. A fake. A larp.

>>51259845
"the modern world is doing"
you clearly don't participate in it - I am on multiple different blockchain teams and I have had ZEROOOOOOOOO people fit your meme 4chan charicatures
touch grass retard

>>51259811
> ??????????????????
You don’t work with “decentralization” unless you work in crypto. If you work in normal tech at most you’d be involved in distributed systems, which are not controlled via financial incentives and game theory. I’m calling your bluff, you junior fucking “dev” with enormous britches.

>>51259902
I don't literally code the Ethereum protocol but I work in the ecosystem so I see what people prioritize and what they are like
what do you do? follow weebs on twitter and think that's the industry? wake the fuck up

>>51259884
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So you took the path of claiming you work in blockchain, what a fucking joke you are!!
Come on, let’s hear it, which one?
> inb4 I-I don’t want to d-doxx myself
The absolute state

>>51259916
Lol, and now you “work” in the “ecosystem”, this is getting more and more believable by the minute buddy, please keep it up.

>>51259916
So you don’t work on Ethereum but you work on the crypto “ecosystem” with colleagues you know (despite never talking with them about anything remotely connected) are true, old school cypherpunks who have all moved from btc to eth, and they work with you despite you not working with Ethereum…my, what tales we weave…

I am not buying your bags.

I repeat.

I. am. not. buying. your. bags.

>>51259916
fuck up you vaxxed faggot

>>51254529
BSV solves the Bitcoin problem. You've simply been psyoped into thinking BTC is Bitcoin.

>>51259992
>>51259916
vitalik premined 72pct of the ethereum supply at the start. just that alone should make you understand there is centralized control. it was from the start. even if you don't understand POS or POW. a 72pct premine should give you a clue.

>>51259929
>>51259949
>>51259992
you can keep screeching for all I care; I work in defi and in the Ethereum ecosystem and have for over 2 years
but we both know you don't know anything about the industry outside 4chan and twitter, so what are you even doing?

>>51254402
>>51254428
?

I don't like your reaction images.

>>51260192
vitalik brought out his Proof of Work chain when he already decided that he was going to go Proof of stake later. thats why he premined 72pct of supply and hard forked when the dao hack happened. cause an unknown entity suddenly had a big amount of his "soon to be" proof of stake chain. it wasn't even meant to actually be a project. vitalik just wanted to scam some retards with his "smart contracts" idea. it was never meant to blow up. he was gonna scam a bunch of suckers and dump on them to get back at the bitcoiners who rejected him building on it.

>>51260200
the industry you work in is full of tokens not needed. and projects not needed. and soon regulations will shut 99pct of it down. constantly bridges get hacked and defi protocols get exploited cause they hire a bunch of vaxxed retards like you

>>51260192
I think you reply to the wrong guy. I understand pow vs pos just fine, pos can never replace pow.

>>51260200
> I work in some DeFi project
> I have a single clue what cypherpunks are up to these days
Buddy that’s like saying “I work in iphone gaming, so I have a pretty good idea what the guys who designed Windows NT kernel are doing”
> 2 years!!
lol do you really think you’re not extremely wet behind the ears?

>>51260200
post some code or stfu you triple vaxxed larping niggercattle