/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>51238026
hmmm they same guy that wants to pamp hi eth split.

yeah bias much

also not the msrtest man in crypto

also bitcoin has been dead a few 100 times since 2010, how did that all work out

>>51238026
oh nonononono POW bros....

>>51238026
So the guy who made a coin because he didn't like btc still doesn't like btc
I am shocked and horrified, we truly will never recover from this

>>51238052
>>51238067
solve the verifier's dilemma right fucking now maderchod

In 5 years ETH will no longer be #2
And it will also not be #1

>>51238094
This

>>51238094
But it will still be 3
If LINK is 1
And BTC is 2

>>51238026
>listening to some autist brony faggot

A strange day is coming for Ethereum

>>51238026
He is correct. Boomer coin has no use case.

>>51238164
hes not a brony, bronies are based

the true irony is altcoiners talking about the long-term consequences of bitcoin, when every single altcoins either fails in less than 10 years, or look nothing like it did 10 years earlier.

stability is what drives value, nobody can park money in ethereum and feel safe long term, those that do don't know what they're getting themselves into.

>>51238304
its quite literally the only decentralized blockchain, Ethereum is quite literally a hard fork of Ethereum classic (etc) and Ethereum (eth) has an infinite supply. very decentralized wow.

>>51238026
>smartest man in crypto
>main was an SL-SL warlock

>>51238751
don't bother. they don't seem to understand the dire consequences of being a blockchain valued for "utility" in the first place.

>>51238826
Enjoy your 3 transactions per second new digital currency.

>>51238839
as soon as you concede l2s are necessary for scaling, all technological arguments become redundant, and only intrinsic properties start to matter.

all i know is that back then
1 btc = 2000 eth
now
1 btc = 12 eth

>>51238052
>pamp
>hi
>msrtest
Tell me ur a shill, without tellin' it

>>51238076
let GRT index history and pay them a cut of fees :)

>>51238881
They are necessary for boomercoin only

>>51238938
ETH needs another upgrade to scale. Two more years am I right?

>>51238959
You confuse me with an ETH maxi sir

>>51238076
what the fuck is the verifier's dilemma

I can't wait for his shittoken manufactory to finally fork off into piece of shit (PoS) centralization and fade into irrelevancy. God I hate this clown so fucking much it's unbelievable.

>>51238902
1eth ll be 12btc in 10 years, screencap this!

>>51238026
Literally who? Oh, you cropped the article source out because it's probably some pajeet site quoting a Twitter screencap from some fucking faggot

>>51238938
ethereum won't ever scale with the complicated base layer it has today, there aren't any decentralized blockchains with the ability to scale entirely on l1 either.

l2s are just a simple concept: don't store the data forever just settle it. applying that everywhere undermines effectively all altcoins. when there'll only be one ultimate cryptographic way to settle that data, all bitcoin has to do is adopt it, and suddenly the need for alt l1s melts away.

it's not likely to happen soon, but it's inevitable eventually as bitcoin keeps looking for ways to increase the base layer block fee. stealing altcoin's l2s is the easiest and quickest way.

>>51238995
>they are necessary for boomercoin only
I replied to your comment sir

>>51238026
this horse dicked daddy controls crypto now. kneel

>>51238094
100%

>>51238881
absolute./thread
rip thread

I will not eat the bug oracles

>>51239037
as hashrate goes up and block rewards decrease, rational miners have a stronger incentive to remain competitive by devoting all computation to hashing rather than using some for verification. the chain also becomes more vulnerable to adversaries offering incentives to miners willing to insert malicious blocks
>>51239541
>all bitcoin has to do is adopt
good luck with that one

>>51238809
>playing wow

>>51239859
>competitive by devoting all computation to hashing rather than using some for verification
What does he mean by this? lol

>>51239859
I love how alties can see into the future and add shit code to their chain like emission tails and ice age to force shit into the network while seething about a decentralized network working as intended.

>>51238026
>smart
oh we got a newfag over here

>>51238094
Yep. PoS will kill it.

>>51239859
it doesn't need to adapt, that's the point, all it would ever need to do is add a couple of opcodes. it made significantly larger changes just last year than it would need to to support arbitrary l2 solutions.

>>51238026
he’s kinda right. fees alone won’t drive miner incentives, unless energy costs decrease significantly

>>51238026
>The smartest man in crypto just said that bitcoin is dead.

>>51240326
There's discreet log contracts on umbrel now.
You know that oracle shit everyone here wasted all their money on with chainlink?
It's a simple ap on a bitcoin node now.

>>51238026
>The smartest man in crypto
aaaa shit outa my way bitcoin niggas

>>51240659
Vitalik was financed by rich kikes like Joseph Lubin and they all have communist tendencies.

Noo you can't use electricity.
Nooo you can't make decisions with your own node.
Noooo you can't cash out of staking contract.

I can't believe you fags believe this bullshit;.

No you can't cash out of your staking node until we program in KYC against racists!

>>51238026
Just swapped all my ETH to BTC

>>51238026
Sell the news

>>51238026
I trust fudders and investors to be on his ass for this, let every alts live whilst the other coexists that's what these whales aren't aware of. Vitalik should work on making the merge even better and stop all this fuckery. When KDA, RIDE, ONE, or even MUSE become mainstream high-class tokens in the space, I see no reason why non bag holders should talk down on others when everyone with proper research can earn profits from them.

>>51238026
I really believe vitalik with every fiber of my being. He's too autistic and focused on his goals to ever muddy the truth or posture to get ahead. He's a case of what you see is what you get.

HOLY SHIT ITS BECAUSE OF MT GOX SEP 15

>>51238067
Man's overstepping his boundaries with his full dick ass.

>>51238094
Checked.

>>51240931
Did same too, getting a wBTC for possible liquidity mining on Uniswap then staking on Sylo pool for more profiting, fuck Vitalik and his erection. Faggot

>>51240264
>>51240307
transaction verification is separate from block production. miners do not technically have to verify. you can google it if you don't understand it, there is ample literature about it
>>51240326
>adapt
adopt. I quoted you. arbitrary lionizing of bitcoin's "properties" aside, you are extremely optimistic about the bitcoin protocol's ability to make substantive changes, especially given the pace at which development is currently proceeding

>>51238026
>The smartest man in crypto

the PEDO FAGGOT scumbag frontman
literally a piece of shit mouthpiece for the WEF

>>51241368
Based yet cringe.

>>51241460
Isn't there some flat earth investigations you need to get to

>>51241451
>transaction verification is separate from block production. miners do not technically have to verify. you can google it if you don't understand it, there is ample literature about it
The blocks are created before the hash is found.
It would be absolutely retarded to not include transactions in blocks.

We're talking such a low about of computing resources to build a block it's amazing you're even arguing this.

>>51241451
>especially given the pace at which development is currently proceeding
Check out umbrel the node software it's amazing how fast apps are being built.

>>51241534
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/July_2015_chain_forks

this happened two halvings ago. what do you think will happen as hashing gets
more competitive and more miners decide to cheat thinking they can squeeze more hashpower instead of verifying? or a bad actor decides to render the chain worthless by paying miners to insert bad blocks and cause random forks? it's a ticking clock

>>51241603
They did it because block reward was like 99% of the pay back in 2015.
You're contradicting yourself by arguing this will happen at later stages.
Mining fees are what like 15% of the mining reward now? I haven't checked in a long time.
Eventually it'll be 100%.

I don't think you understand how much hash bitcoin has or how much it'll cost to 51% attack.
Also that wouldn't fork the chain, but the response would be to fork the chain and change the mining algo.

You're talking a bunch of hypotheticals a decade plus down the line, there's no data backing what you're saying.

>>51238094
Put me in the screenshot. I think you are correct.

>>51238026
BYE BYE BTC FAGGOTS BETTER START YOUR MISSION! BYU IS CALLING (YOU)

>>51241603
Lol I didn't know people were retarded enough to SPV mine back then.

Run your own node boys.

That has nothing to do with using energy to validate blocks like you were saying.

https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining

>>51241648
it's not a contradiction whatsoever, as rewards decrease competition for those rewards necessarily increases, as does the attack surface. it's also not 51%, it's 38.2%. it's also naive to dismiss this risk as hypothetical, thinking "no one will ever do that!" is exactly what has caused billions of dollars of exploits in defi. sophisticated, highly liquid financial markets - the ability to borrow and short- drastically reduce the cost of a potential attack

>>51238124
Meds

>>51241681
it has everything to do with taking computational shortcuts and endangering the network in the process

>>51241374
https://www.newsbtc.com/news/bitcoin/a-date-for-the-mt-gox-repayment-is-set-how-will-this-affect-bitcoin/
I think they convinced him to get some wind in the back from a bitcoin dump and buy of eth, flip bitcoin while the merge is going on. That's what he's doing, he's going to capitalize on whales switching over.

>>51241683
>it's also not 51%, it's 38.2%.
Where did you get that?

The idea of a 51% is that they eventually out work the legit chain to rewrite it.

It's a hypothetical because you don't know what the fee market is going to be like, what the merge mine market will be like, or any of the applications that will grow in the mining space.

10 years ago people didn't even have ASICs
today they're using them to mine gas flares, balance electric grids, and a bunch of other stuff.
10 years from now who knows how crazy it'll be.

>>51241370
You lose money no one cares. Vitalik loses money he forks the chain. Is that the future of finance?

>>51241738
also consider that right before mt gox announcement, Eth foundation merge will be delayed on week, one day before mt gox first dump

>>51241705
The miners who didn't take the time to download a node, and the miners who didn't take the time to update their software were affected.

This is basic shit.

A node runs on a raspberry pi.
What computational burden are you talking about?

>>51241751
muh mt. gox coins

>>51238751
I love my decentralized blockchain where the mining is entirely controlled by industrial farms!

But hey, not like ETH is any better.

>>51241800
ETH is dogshit because their miners control the gas throughput which made running a node on ETH impossible for the average user.

They tried this on Bitcoin in 2017 and Bitcoin rejected it because we know it's important for our users to validate the network and be a part of our consensus.

Smartest man in crypto is Daniel Bernstein

We are going into an energy crisis. They are shutting off peoples electricity and telling people they cant charge their electric cars.

Bitcoin PoW has to go. Is very energy wasteful and harmful to the planet. One mining farm in Texas is using more power than the entire state of New York.

Every single transaction uses enough energy to power an average home for months !

>>51241822
Your carbon emission typing this shitpost will cost you 10 carbon credits or you could kys instead to settle your debt.

>>51241738
I mean we already know the answer, >>51238925 is tongue-in-cheek but not far off the mark, a paid validator service is the solution. which mechanism gets used and where that money is supposed to come from isn't really my concern, that's something bitcoiners will have to figure out. assuming bitcoin sticks around, which I think it will, maybe 4 halvings from now the crypto-government will subsidize validators so that the protocol doesn't implode. surviving off charity doesn't seem like the most efficient solution, but it's not like the government is a stranger to welfare.
>38.2% attack
you don't need to spend money on hardware to achieve a sybil attack, you can lure in other miners with incentives. an adversary controlling at least 38.2% of hashpower can expect to at least breakeven on costs by offering an incentive exceeding the block reward to other miners, harvesting their hashes with the intent to fork maliciously using a private chain and double spend the bitcoin obtained. this attack can be repeated multiple times and obviously would be a huge clusterfuck. the thing stopping it is the rational self-interest of miners who don't want to break the chain... but what about miners who don't care about the chain and would rather take the much higher block reward offered by the attacker? they may not even be aware that they are mining on behalf of an adversary, they're just happy to receive more bitcoin than they would normally, until the attack happens

>>51238094
screencapped. correct sir

>>51241906
by the way this isn't even including the potential cost savings from shorting btc into oblivion during the attack, which in a fully decentralized market would be completely unstoppable

>>51241906
>more bitcoin
i should clarify that these mercenary miners don't need to be paid in bitcoin; imagine if they were paid in eth, for example. do you think it's impossible, after seeing what happened to terra, that it would be impossible to bribe people to utterly wreck a chain?

>>51239859
based big brain poster

>>51241906
>government, subsidies, welfare
You don't understand this stuff.

Miners who invest in these machines currently 8k+ each, who build out these hosting facilities and make these grid contracts, who take on debt, who are spread out over several million machines across the world, aren't going to collude and crash the price for a quick payday.

They could have easily bullied the network in 2017 and didn't want to risk their golden goose.
Now mining is several times more decentralized and orders of magnitude more secure.

>>51241967
There's a difference between people who actually work and fly by night ICO bullshit.

>>51238076
Solved

>>51242020
you say that now. to me, there is unfortunately a ransom floating over bitcoin's head, where a validator service gets funded (which is a fee problem, because where does the money come from, and a democracy snafu, because how does it get chosen and implemented) or, at some point in the future when markets are fully decentralized and as miners increasingly struggle to meet their debt obligations and millions in sunk costs because of the halvings, and some decide either to take higher incentives offered by the adversary or simply collude to recover costs as they exit, and the adversary pays for hashpower from similarly-minded mercenaries, bitcoin will get attacked

>>51242102
>bankrupt miners have the money to 51% attack the network in a desperate attempt to stay solvent

You're better off just mining or selling the hardware while it still has value.
If the bottom falls out of everything yeah it's fucked but the trend is showing the complete opposite.

>>51242148
>You're better off just mining or selling the hardware while it still has value
in a race to the bottom liquidity becomes the issue. try to unwind millions in ASICs or just take part in a coordinated effort to sybil the chain? you get to short, receive incentives from the mastermind, and race everybody else to atomic swap your double-spend coins into any decentralized btc pair you can find. the asics can rot in the abandoned warehouse

And now imagine if he said that SHINJA is the future. I mean it has an ETH pair and everything so its not that out of the question. Good devs, sympathetic and open to the public, great shit

>>51242102
its more expensive to attack bitcoin than ethereum under proof of work, at almost any size ethereum could be.

>>51241451
>arbitrary lionizing of bitcoin's "properties" aside, you are extremely optimistic about the bitcoin protocol's ability to make substantive changes, especially given the pace at which development is currently proceeding
why wouldn't i be when i've clearly explained why the only viable scaling solutions result in a smaller surface-area change to bitcoin than happened last year.

>>51238915
I cant even tell bot post from retard post anymore. I only browse for lulz and 3am schizo posting.

>>51238094
That's right. PoW was the only thing separating it from PoS Gay-eth forks
BNB will take over

>>51242364
No use being nice when I can't make friends
just too shy

>>51242364
the future will be a multiverse, there are already too many things that call themselves "the future"

>>51238026
Good thing Bitcoin is about decentralization unlike crypto.

>>51238026
>smartest man
that's not satoshi nakomoto

>>51238094
Yup. We will stop counting as there will only be ETH.

>>51238026
Yes bitcoin is dead it is a scampump and dump coin 0 use case piece of crap shitcoin