/biz/ - Business & Finance

BTC will never drop under 18k again

it will never go below 18 again.

Mark my words, by Q2 2018

>BTC corrects to sub 10k
>ETH hits 2k
>LTC hits 1k

I know for a fact that this will happen. Just be ready.

It will never go under 19000 again

Again under 18k never

>>5118443
>nlNe
Sell Q1.5 2018 to fiat
Buy BTC Q2.1
??
Profit

>>5118432
>>5118436
>>5118466
It's going under within the day you newfags

yes it will never correct again. Buy more Nazi bags

It is currently correcting to a little above $20k...

>>5118416
but why?

>>5118499
can someone redpill me on rsi

>>5118494
you'll see, fucker.

It will correct to the price of gold. It is a store of value after all.

>>5118416
Bought the dip at $18.813

>>5118518
gee I fucking wonder

If you are not buying BTC now and selling when it hits $20K in a few days you are basically stupid and hate money.
Go off yourself, your fucking commie.

That feel when you sell Ripple at its run up earlier today, for BTC just before its run

FUCK ALL OF YOU

BTC will never drop under 20k again.

>>5118527
Pretty accurate. Under 30 is oversold. Over 70 is overbought. Bitcoin has a daily rsi of 80. And a weekly rsi of 96. the scale only goes to 100. That should tell you something

>>5118527
no, buy more Nazi bags

Anyone buying at these prices right now is legitimately retarded. After the crash we won't see $18k again until summer/fall 2018.

it will never go below 25k again

>>5118592

Why would sell if Normie hype drives the price up after it hits 20k?

>>5118614
That's pretty much every coin that's mooned over the past month

You expecting a crypto wide crash?

>>5118637
Because what happens after $20K is a mystery.

BTC will hit 1 million by 2019

>>5118564
that is not speculative buying, that is panic buying once people understand what this thing is.

>>5118640

Yes. If/when BTC crashes, everything is going to crash with it. This won't just be a "move money to USDT and then buy back in" sort of crash. This is going to be an "everyone cashes out to fiat and pulls back the whole crypto market" kinda crash.

My money is still on it happening Christmas Day.

>>5118494
ok, short it then with 100x leverage and post proof

I'm waiting

>>5118662

A literal useless, outdated tech shit coin that has absolutely no practical application nor mass adoption? BTC is the only coin that is marketed towards normies - that and that reason alone is why it's going up.

>>5118677
>If/when BTC crashes, everything is going to crash with it.

This is why I hope for a slow overtaking by an alt for a 'flippening.' It would give the market time to adjust and it all wouldn't come crashing down instantly

>>5118677
I can't wait for normies to leave my crypto alone

>>5118700
you don't seem to understand anything, sad

>>5118649
What happens after $10k was a mystery. Most expected a big correction but no it just doubled again.

>>5118677
If it crashes it will be like when it crashed before, a slow bleed with all the shitcoins bleeding even harder.

>>5118701
bchs weekly RSI looks great btw

>>5118688

You're a faggot, faggot.

>>5118688
Just because you know it's gonna blow up doesn't mean you know when

>>5118688
How about I screenshot these posts and post them later. That's basically the same thing. Being wrong is worse than being liquidated.

>>5118443
found the smart one

>>5118713

You need normies for mass adoption

>>5118719

Let me guess, he doesn't understand that BTC is a 'store of value?' (because it's fucking ass as an actual currency)

>>5118640
Every Exchange using USDTethers.
Tether company 100% Shady as fuck.
Same company that owns Bitfinex Owns Tethers.
Printing to infinity.
As yourself if you think tethers actually has the USD to back the tethers.
My guess is no

>>5118719

What don't I understand? Explain it to me?

I understand the excitement because BTC was the first, but all subsequent blockchain products are superior to btc in every single way - the only thing they do not have going for them is the media attention.

>>5118662
>once people understand what it is

So normies are buying because they understand what BTC is and what fiat currency is? Do normies understand that the $200 they put in is useless when fees are so high? Do normies understand that transaction speeds are so fucking slow that it's useless?

If you don't believe it's a bubble you're literally a moron, they're only buying due to greater fool theory

>>5118752
>You need normies for mass adoption
Not like this though, massive crashes and moons only make crypto sound worse. Also like other anons said, shit is speculative at best and BTC is outdated tech.

>>5118739

There's no scenario where BCH takes over BTC and doesn't crash the market due to normie confusion

>>5118677
there is plenty of dumb money in BTC right now, but I think most of them are looking for a 100x return and won't sell even if BTC drops back into the $5-7k range, because LOL CRYPTO VOLATILITY.

also, the only thing that could make BTC tank this hard is a coordinated whale effort where a large portion of their stack is liquidated over a couple of days. but why would they do that? crypto is gaining ground on wall street and we'll probably see crypto instruments shoot up all over the world.

my guess is that BTC could easily see $100k before whales start dumping (if ever?).

>>5118744
stay mad
>>5118747
he said within a day
>>5118748
it just proves that you are a fudder retard pussy who knows nothing and blindly shouts retarded shit lol

>>5118719
normies dont know NEO or whatever shitcoin you fucking married to go up. The only reason your shitcoin even has value is because of BTC, get this through your head you shitcoiners

>>5118719
>snarky response rather than an argument

You sound like a soyboy liberal

One of the things about the crypto market, is a lot of the people in it, really believe in the long term viability of a cryptocurrency. Whatever correction/crash is happening will be belayed by those people wanting to get a cheap bitcoin. No one gave a real shit about tulips beyond just a profit generator. Cryptocurrency will change the world, anyone who doesnt see that will have lots of smart people to sell to.

>>5118734

it'll likely be like last crash and slowly bleed... but there's a couple other factors to consider. Namely normies, and Christmas.

Once the price starts to drop, normies are going to start to panic sell so they can get out their money for Christmas spending before it disappears. Once enough of them start firesaling their BTC to get rid of it, it'll push us into a long squeeze which could flash crash the price.

If/when we hit $16500 again its all over. I expect we'll see it move fast from there.

>>5118781
>shit is speculative at best and BTC is outdated tech.

Every crypto is going to be speculative until is reaches mass adoption and is accepted as a universal currency, and there will always be high volatility with things like that. And I'm well aware BTC is outdated which is why it will never reach the mass adoption end point

>>5118800
>mfw i should proofread before pressing submit

>>5118649

You said literally the same thing two weeks ago at 10k.

I'll solve that mystery for you: Price will skyrocket like crazy even shooting towards the 30k then consolidate in the middle at 25k, then climb it's way up to 27k, 28k until the 30k starts.

Repeat.

A Bitcoin crash will never happen again. Network effect grew way too strong.

Dips will only be temporary

You have to ask yourself: Would you sell everything you own for 5000$ bitcoins? If yes, it's not dropping. The price is right.

>>5118813
I am going to fuck your mother, impregnate her, and then fuck your youngest sister, only to fuck her little girl and force you to suck the dick that fucked your mother, sister and niece.

>>5118677
We will see a big retrace at some point over the next year-2 years, but I doubt that moment will occur this year. Remember, the biggest retrace BTC saw in 2013 happened at over much larger %s of growth than what BTC experienced over these past 3 or so months.

If we were over 100k at the moment or approach that figure soon, then I'd see your point

>>5118416
You can get huge gains with this coin.

>>5118836
>A Bitcoin crash will never happen again. Network effect grew way too strong.

First mover advantage is a thing that lasts forever, right?

>>5118774
>>5118776
>>5118809
i can only feel pity for you seething nocoiners. you're missing the entire point of this thing, and are unable to see the limitless demand as people will always want a way to get around the monetary policies that their governments implement. not to mention the intentional deflationary aspects of the coin, this thing has a long way to go. i pray for a crash every day so that i can buy more.

>>5118800
So people should just buy x because x is first and made everything else popular?

BTC is objectively inferior to emerging crypto currency, you can only play your ponzi for so long before people realize this, probably when they have to spend a couple hours salary just to be able to purchase a fucking coffee

>>5118592
>Not converting into ltc before it spikes following the king

Yea, stay poor

>>5118832
>And I'm well aware BTC is outdated which is why it will never reach the mass adoption end point
After the initial crash, do you think it will be better to invest in BCH and completely ignore BTC?

>>5118677
no one can cash out in this market

>>5118877
we get it - you fucked up and bought some altcoins instead of holding the king, and now you're shit out of luck. there is still time to board the ship and ride with the king.

>>5118866

Thanks for no argument again.

I'm up 5000% with Eth and 2000% with OMG. Enjoy you .08 btc - make sure you change your facebook career to "crpyto entrepreneur and investor"

>>5118866
>i can only feel pity for you seething nocoiners.

And I only feel pity for the BTC maximalists who don't realize that while crypto is here to stay, BTC probably isn't in the long-run. I only hold BTC right now, but I have no illusions that it's the future of currency

>>5118866
I'm not a nocoiner you fucking moron, I'm calling your dinosaur coin shit because it is, and it's popularity is holding back emerging technology

>Because you hate this website you hate all of the internet!

>>5118416
lmao people calling the crash why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Short bitcoin if you're so confident

I fucking hate this shitcoin

salty shitcoiners and nocoiners will NEVER change

>>5118909
>>5118910
>>5118911
SEETHING

All of the negativity is all because of altcoin bagholders realizing they are missing out on profits. Let go of your dumbass shitcoins during these bull runs and you will be far more prosperous.

>>5118908
Why are you double downing in your arrogance? Of course I could have made more, but that is not the point. Instead of defending the technology you're just telling me to buy more, that's fucking ludicrous

>>5118941

I seethe when some someone makes an argument but provides no facts to back it up.

>>5118946
this. judging by the anger in this thread their bags are very heavy :)

>>5118886
>After the initial crash, do you think it will be better to invest in BCH and completely ignore BTC?

Fuck no. BTC crashing would cause damage to the Bitcoin brand, and if the crash happened because of BCH flipping with BTC it would be even worse from the paranoia it would put into people about buying into a coin that could one day die and some fork that they don't own taking over. Besides BCH is only marginally better than BTC, there's tons of alts that are cheaper and better and in the event of of a real crash I can definitely see the big players in the space trying to get in early on something else and kickstart the 'new BTC'

>>5118864

Yeah.
The very concept of crypto is to put the most trust in the Blockchain that has the longest history. And that's Bitcoin.
Bitcoin will forever be the king.
Even if a Coin should come that seems to overtake Bitcoin, people will fly back to BTC once that coin only starts to dip slightly. Look at BCH AND the eternal 2k BCH bagholders.

>>5118952
>>5118960
which one hurt you the most? was it bitbean? lmfao

>>5118416
>usefulness has anything to do with the price
spotted the newfag

>>5118963

>Getting in at OMG at $1.30 as opposed to you who probably got in at 13K

ughhh my back is breaking

faggot

>>5118927

But I only hold BTC, but still shit on it for being garbage

>>5118966
Dude but BTC can never die bro, it's fucking amazing, I only have to spend $100 to buy a coffee

who cares about BTC? as long as you've diversified enough, it doesn't matter if BTC, ETH, XRP or whatever the fuck else shitcoin is skyrocketing.

crypto currencies are already risky... why concentrate that risk even more by betting on a single coin?

>>5118864
It's an incredibly powerful thing. If the core devs are right we can move forward with bitcoin and keep the built up global trust while fulfilling the promise of crypto. If they're wrong it will mean a big crash for all of crypto, doesn't matter that other coins have better tech. They will need years or even decades to build up the same level of network effect.

>MT Gox
IT'S OVER BITCOIN IS DEAD
>Segwit
IT'S OVER BITCOIN IS DEAD
>Breaks 10k
IT'S OVER BITCOIN IS DEAD
>Normies show up
IT'S OVER BITCOIN IS DEAD
>Bitcoin futures
IT'S OVER BITCOIN IS FINISHED
>Breaks 20k
>IT'S OVER......

I don't want to give in to the euphoria, but it gets harder everyday.

>>5119001
>derruhhh mhuuh altbondds suhperrriuhhh baahhh

I fucking hate BTC, does it again against all odds
it's all fucking fomo at this point


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>5118980
>Look at BCH AND the eternal 2k BCH bagholders.

Why in the hell would you think the replacement for Bitcoin would be another thing named Bitcoin? That's stupid. Besides, BCH clearly wasn't a natural overtaking within the space. It was big players trying to switch out one for the other in a relatively quick fashion

People have gotten far too complacent. I don't know how serious they are, but there seem to be many people who refuse to believe crypto is in a bubble. If a dip happens everyone just waits for the rise like it has to happen. I don't like it.

>>5119075
>inb4 called a seething nocoiner who won't buy 0.001 of a shitcoin

>>5119007
because this is no longer smart people investing money or internet autists pretending to be traders
This is massive influx of dumb money, I read an article 2 days ago of people literally mortgaging their houses to buy BTC

>>5119041
You don't have to believe bitcoin will die to say that it's overvalued.

>>5119104
>being this mad
jesus christ relax dude, we're all just fucking around with each other. is this your first week here?

you shitcoin faggots dont seem to realize we are way past critical mass. there are way to many people who will always buy the dips to have a crash like that. It is not going anywhere anytime soon.

There will never be a 'flippening', altcoins may gain traction, but btc will never lose traction.

>>5118877
x defines the very existence of everything else you retard. if BTC crashes just like all you fagots want it to, all your alts are valued in Satoshi, they also become worthless. Everything will go to shit if the king dies you fucking fagots. Everything, every one of your shitty alts goes down and down hard, like it happened every single time

>>5119075
It's 100% euphoria at this point.
Other than the US future markets there was zero changes in fundamentals or adoption of BTC and yet the thing is close to 20k
Crypto has value but you have to be drinking the koolaid to believe that BTC is anything other than a massive speculative bubble at this point

If Bitcoin went to $1,000,000 it would still not be 10% of the world's assets

Bitcoin will only rise, get rich or get left behind

the only reason the alts have any value, is because btc attracted people to the market. this is a good thing you deluded fucks

>>5118787
depends on which narrative is present at the crash. Futures and Lighetening = bankers paradise seems a scenario where bch doesn't lose as much as btc or tether

>>5119056

I don't think there will be any coin at all that overtakes Bitcoin. Just used BCH as example to show how idiotic the attempt of trying to overtake BTC is.
If Bitcoin dies Crypto dies.

>>5119174
So if Ebay or Amazon died, there would be no websites anymore?

>>5119174
This. Enlightenment is realizing that Bitcoin is the only crypto currency.

>>5118980
>trust in blockchain
>bitcoin segwit

let me put it like this: if BTC crashes to less than $5,000 for whatever reason, people will literally start throwing their money at whatever exchange survives the bloodbath for easy gains.

BTC is going nowhere, ETH, LTC and XRP probably neither.

>>5119145
>the euphoria will never be over
>1 BTC = 1,000,000,000 USD by the end of 2019

>>5118787
The future of humanity vs short term profits.

>>5119217
>If Bitcoin dies Crypto dies.

Yeah because blockchain has zero actual uses and is only for currencies, right?

>bitcoin is a bubble that will burst

So in 2020 the mining reward is about to halve. What does this mean for BTC if miners decide to fuck off then?

>>5119218
i wont even comment on this coon
>>5119219
this. Even this shitcoin holders. How did they find out about the bags they are holding on their portfolio? via BTC
>>5119231
if you want mass adoption

>>5119218

Bitcoin dying would be more like the Internet going down and failing as concept

>>5119298
The actual question is what happens when it's all mined out

>>5119250
It's not gonna flash crash to 5k, it's gonna flash crash higher and then you'll see a long-ass bear market that nobody knows the end of. By the time it reaches 5k on the way down nobody's gonna want it cause they'll be looking at potentially months of bleeding out.

>>5119265
>another coon over here
Blockchain Ledgers != Cryptocurrency

>>5119313
>too big to fail

Banking Blockstream kikes are literally here...

>>5119328

Then say cryptocurrency instead of just crypto dummy, pretty much everything people talk about here falls under the 'crypto' umbrella

Bitcoin will crash because of tether. No, people won't buy until bitcoin hits 2000, because it ain't worth shit.

>never going below 18000

ten minutes later........

>>5119316
I think its pretty simple, all we have to do is look at the price generator supply <-> demand. Supply will stop, demand will not. One of the deepest motivations for BTC, avoiding inflation

>>5119265
Kind of. Without the economic incentive for miners there's no security in the network and is severely limited in speed, bandwidth, and storage capacity compared to normal centralized networks.

>>5119298

Yeah like how all the miners fucked off the last time the mining reward halved, right?

This is how bitcoin looked 8 months ago.
Don't tell me it doesn't look like a bubble waiting to burst.

Up 600% since.

>>5119376
yeah but once it's all mined out what is going to happen with the transfer fees
unless they increase massively who would keep running miners

>>5119265
cryptocurrency is really the only use for blockchain. give me a use case that says otherwise and i'll explain why it this niche middleware is probably not the best fit.

>>5119393
Oh so it went up? Nothing like a bubble then.

>>5119316
That's in like 2140.

>>5119265

Yeah it doesn't if the whole thing is constantly instable and can crash at any moment. Bitcoin is the very proof of concept of the Blockchain technology.

Nobody will put their money into a technology that can just completely evaporate at any moment even after years of building up the network and trust.

>>5119393
That's the reason I really hate this shitcoin.

>>5119433
are you memeing or do you have something to back that?

>>5119174
>all your alts are valued in Satoshi

A U T I S M

>>5119464
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

>>5119417

Just like everything else it will be regulated by supply and demand.

I don't think anyone understands the one thing that makes this market so much more resistant to a crash than other bubbles in the past.

Normie access.

Literally to buy bitcoin, all you need is 10 minutes, a credit card, and an internet connection. The fees are low and percentage-based so it's not an impediment to buying a little at a time. Hundreds of millions of normies are tuned in or tuning into this dream of easy 10x gains. It doesn't matter if the dream is still obtainable or not. Completely undiscerning normies with credit cards at the ready to buy up any dip that happens, from here until kingdom come. Maybe when the whole market cap hits $10T it'll start slowing down.

Honestly, blame the modern wagecuck existence for this market psychosis we're seeing. Regular people's opportunities to get ahead and live a comfy middle class life and retire and style after 30 years have been dwindling for decades. Crypto is a like a vision of the pearly fucking gates, it's an exit sign from wageslave hell. People will chase it to the ends of the earth.

What I'm saying is, the crypto train has no fucking brakes and will not 'crash' until AT LEAST 100K. And even then, it'll only be down to where we are now, at the worst. It'll definitely never dip below 10K every again.

>>5119298
you DO know the block reward is 12.5 right now, right?

>>5119496
there is literally no reference to that date there
it says that it will be reached circa 2140 but there is nothing to back it

>>5119521
>Literally to buy bitcoin, all you need is 10 minutes, a credit card, and an internet connection.
Since when do exchanges take credit cards?

>>5119145
except in the case where 90% of btc value comes from imaginary money

>>5119534
you asked for a reference and got one faggot
>give me a reference for your reference
fuck off

>>5118416
we corrected back to $18.5k, you happy yet?

>>5119555
Where in the shit-eating 4th world do you live that you haven't heard of normiebase?

>>5119393
RSI was 70 around then and we saw major corrections to between 50 and 60, and knowing crypto hypes, it was underbought. Now, it isn't. But if you think it is a good buy, I have some sell orders at Polo, wex and hit, go and buy them

>>5119534
>but there is nothing to back it
it's called math you brainlet

bitcoin doubters will never be happy. if btc moons
>muh technology
if btc crashes and their shitcoins do too
>pink wojaks

>>5119470
get a load of this turbonormie
>Binance
>Yobit
>Polo
>Wex
>Bittrex
The haggia sophias of shitcoins. Do they have fiat pairings? Only Tether. Fiat values on there are just because brainlets asked support to add them because of convenience. otherwise the price levels you see out there are satoshis_base*btc_quote_in_usd . Retards like you should have been aborted and their fetuses flashed down the toilet

>>5119521
It's true. How many normies play the fucking lottery when they know they have NO chance of winning. It's psychologically hard NOT to invest in crypto. Once you hear about it it's like a virus that never leaves your mind, and every time it hits a new milestone in price, the nocoiner feels a pang of pain and regret because of how easy it would have been to buy.

>>5119568
Wikipedia is not a reference, it is something literally anybody with an internet connection can edit
How did they reached that year, I want to see the math behind it

>>5119419
All asset management, not just currencies makes sense on a decentralized public ledger. If I owned tokens that represented my properties I could trade them and register everything automatically without the crazy real estate broker fees. I would have a private key that proves my ownership without needing a central authority to validate it etc.

>>5118443
He knows what the market will do.

Reading this thread it's clear we're at the delusion phase.

>>5119592
And where is said math, Wikipedia doesn't reference it

>>5119112
this desu, a crash doesn't mean it will literally die only that normies will be panic selling.

>>5119521

What people also don't realize is that the bigger the adoption the LESS likely it is to crash.

They see big numbers and think "Oh no this is way too big it has to crash" but the reality is that we are much less likely to crash by big percents than compared to back in 2011 or something when there were only the few early adopters. 500 people out of say 1000 fuck out of a market, the price crash is massive.
When 500 drop out from a million, nobody cares.

For Bitcoin to crash MT Gox style it would require people to fuck off in the hundreds of thousands. Sure it can happen, but it becomes increasingly unlikely the more the network grows.

>he didn't buy the horizontal dip

>>5119636
This

>>5119566

All money is imaginary

>>5119621
so that would work if every single property in your country, as well as every licensed real estate agent was locked into using that blockchain. good luck getting that implemented, not going to happen.

>>5119616
Ok, there you go. I thought is was interesting too.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

>>5119637
>And where is said math
it's 4th grade math. i'm not going to teach you retard level addition and division.

>>5119636
Not delusion. Everyone is aware that the direction this is heading is down, people just try to sell their bags, like always. Hell this will be funny when tether goes to 0.5

>>5119683
At least not for a long while but it's more efficient. A practical use for blockchain tech like you asked for.

>>5119637

Jesus Christ are you a literal brainlet?

>>5119683
>so online brokerages would work if every single property in your control, as well as every lincesed real estate agent used the internet. Good luck getting that implemented, not going to happen.

t. you 30 years ago

I just heard it's going to $100K by 2020. Bubbles are mathematically impossible. This is a one-way ride.

I trade other coins, but I hold BTC.

>>5119470
where are you? show yourself you coon

>>5119724
practicality implies feasibility, your use case does not

>>5119748
if your best argument is that we're 30 years away from making it a possibility ... yikes

>>5119755
buy some more

>>5119699
I can't even find in the history when the year prediction was last altered but I guess it's fair to say it's been a while and the hash power has increased massively since then

>>5119755

At this rate I actually see 100k by Q1 2018

And people will continue to be shocked by Bitcoin's price. This story never ends

>>5119621
You can build these use cases on top of a rock solid network that uses cryptocurrrency as the economic incentive for miners to maintain the network but it doesn't really work if you just start with the specific application.

>>5119781
>https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply
oh, click on the link on that page, nice graph. helps

>>5119555
>2017
>Not knowing about Coinbase

How's elementary school going Anon?

> me if this happens

>>5119555
fuck off

>>5119857
coinbase is not an exchange

>>5119598

Fiat values are up there because you need to know how much you get when cashing out. Doesn't help to know how many "Satosheeeeis" you have when the whole market is going to hell in USD-terms.

>>5119587
My sides

>>5119787
This is why all "niche" shitcoins are going to 0.

>>5119288
Blemmyes

>>5118989
You spotted yourself?

>>5118614
thanks buddy, I'll never use this though, because I don't
>B
>E
>T
>
>A
>G
>A
>I
>N
>S
>T
>
>T
>H
>E
>
>K
>I
>N
>G

>>5119521

People who think normies are going to save them are going to be the people who lose everything this crash.

Do you really think normies are going to be there to catch the falling knife? Have you ever talked to a normie? They're going to panic sell and drag it down faster than any past bubble.

Who are you people that are this dumb? If you're at the point where your rationalization of the price is "Normies are here, we're never crashing again!" you deserve to lose everything.

>>5119787
Yes I think the major innovation of bitcoin is the economic incentive. If we do get wide adoption of a solid network people will see these kind of use cases as obvious and compete to implement them fast. If the tech that must not be named (Lightning) works as promised I think I could have a private key representing transferable ownership of my car in less than a decade since I live in a place with quick tech adoption.

>>5118432
1,000,000 could be days, weeks, or months.

Banks are going to lose control of the payment industry in the blink of an eye. When they realize their only option is to pile into Bitcoin it will be 1 million plus immediately overnight.

>>5119886
>Fiat values are up there because you need to know how much you get when cashing out
You support my argument fiat values are up there for convenience
>>5119886
>Doesn't help to know how many "Satosheeeeis" you have when the whole market is going to hell in USD-terms.
there is no cashing out shit if daddy BTC dies sweetie. Exchanges will exit scam left right and center and you would do nothing about it. Everything depends on BTCs survival. I work in a mid traffic exchange, I would know

>>5119899

Good, I want to buy more XRB

>>5119969
As long as bitcoin remains dominant, blockstream controls it and side chains controlled by banks become a thing your statement is a lie banker shill

>>5119884
it literally is an exchange, it is GDAX with a friendly GUI and bigger fees

>>5119969
>its okay if bankers own the network because the price is going up :)

>>5119993
>there is no cashing out shit if daddy BTC dies sweetie.

This is why alts are pointless.

BTC crashes your alt is so dead it isn't even mined

BTC rises - you rise less.

>Inb4 gambling on some worthless garbage

>>5119969

>When they realize their only option is to pile into Bitcoin

Or get uncle sam to make it illegal.

>>5120008
Side chains controlled by banks means banks have submitted to the dominance of decentralization as the ultimate authority. If they get away with pushing ripple type stuff instead they maintain control.

>>5119075
For crypto to be in a bubble it would have to be a cash flow asset like stocks or real estate and not a currency you fucking retard.

>>5120008
You know the difference between side chains and the lightning network right?

>>5120078
>submitted to decentralization via centralizing the network

>>5120075
Not going to happen anyway, but even if it did all coins are irrelevant

>>5118416
no coiners both amuse me and sadden me

>>5120093

> currency
> can't buy anything with it

: ^ )

>>5118416
>sold 60% of my btc @ 10.5k
>refuse to buy back in at a loss

it will when bitfinex files for bankruptcy and BCH gets listed on coinbase and satoshi sells all his btc holdings

>>5118833
E-excuse me, but who is this girl? I have a very strong desire to be intimate with her but I guess that will only be possible if my bags ever go up in value...

>>5120136
Early stages anon...come on man, that's why we're here. No point getting in after everyone else.

>>5120126
Settlement happens on chain so the ultimate authority is decentralized. You can do private transactions off chain, providing the ability to do so is necessary for unlimited scaling but all transactions have to eventually be settled by the ultimate decentralized authority.

>>5120041

Bankers can't and won't own the Network.
They'll just be part of it like everyone else but buy themselves in at an incredible high price

>>5120017
no its not. I think you cant even buy shit instantly and you have to order coins and they arrive in 3days. coinbase is a joke if you are a serious guy

>>5120078
Oh I see where you come from, bet you think $1000 to transact on the main chain to not et fucked over is a great thing to and if you like it cheap use Mr Shekelbaumsteins side chain.
tbf, good for normies who don't care about their private keys, I'll chose a coin where I am in control of my keys and Mr. Shekelbaumstein and big daddy goberment has no idea what I'm sending to whom because they are simply not involved, and all that for a moderate fee below $1

Fucking banker shill neck yourself

I think some whales should crash it or else the whole crypto goes crazy.

lets slow that shit down for a few months.

>>5118677
> it happening Christmas Day
second coming isn't such a bad idea afterall

>>5120179
>>5120192

That's complete bullshit, scaling can be done on chain just look at bcash and I don't think either of you understand the implications of hub networks, nor the costs associated with channel liquidity and settlements.

>>5120041
Can't own it, can only compete in it. Go ahead, compete away.

As long as my stack is denominated in BTC I am ok with this.

That's what you trader retards don't get about HoldOnforDearLife. This group will never sell, only spend. My money is waiting for whoever wants it.

>>5120212
Carlos!!!

>>5120210
yes, lets kill bitcoin and the sell outs at blockstream. And if we are at it, get your pitchforks torches and ropes, and hang some Twins

>>5120166

BTC has almost no attributes of a good currency, even if its value was stable. BTC is an asset. The question is if it's a tulip bulb or a piece of gold. Nobody in their right mind is investing in it as a future currency.

>>5120193
??????
Coinbase IS GDAX stupid fucker
Coinbase is not a wallet, you don't own the coins on coinbase

>>5120156
You should keep dumping on these normies Like I do. Making millions selling all the way up.
Crash will be glorious. We will see 2-5k flashcrash then bulltrap and then a few months bear market down to 2-3k.
Screencap this

>>5120164
dont know her saved her from /pol/

>>5120164
Lauren Southerns big hot sister

>>5120257
Wrong.

We are supposed to live in a deflationary world anon. Did you know a basket took a whole day to make and cost a day's wage in the Edwardian period? Shit is supposed to get cheaper. Not more expensive as is the goal of the central banks based on their inflation target.

>>5120196
I tend to think paranoid schizophrenics like you are a healthy part of the crypto ecosystem. It's great that you will fight for alternatives. With atomic swaps I can even use those alternatives for transactions if they're better at it.

>>5120226
You can't get unlimited on chain scaling today, if I personally want to do millions of transactions today it's only possible by allowing off chain transactions.

>>5120262
wtf are you even trying to say?

I'll elaborate, since I like Coinbase and I've never had any problems with their service.
Every time you buy or sell on Coinbase, you initiate an ACH transfer. These ACH transfers (since they were invented by dinosaurs) take 3-7 days to complete. And many traditional banks post limits on the amount of ACH transfers you can have in a day/week/month. Too many and your bank activity will be flagged as suspicious, your funds may even be frozen.
Day-trading is an active hobby. Those who trade often do so several times a day. With traditional stocks, a trader usually keeps a brokerage account in order to limit ACH usage in his primary checking. Brokerage accounts are not usually insured.
In the world of bitcoin, trade exchanges like Bitstamp and Mt. Gox function similarly to brokerage accounts. They are non-insured hot wallets that allow you to quickly trade fiat for btc without having to initiate several ACH transfers a day. You fund the exchange and they hold and track your money until you are ready to cash out.
I think many people have trouble with Coinbase because they try to use it as an exchange. Let's say you buy a bitcoin on Coinbase at 7 a.m., then the price skyrockets, so you sell at noon. Another dip and you buy back in a 3 p.m. You've made quite a bit of money, right? Yes and no. You've just initiated three ACH transfers from the same company to your checking account in the space of a single day. You did the same thing yesterday and your funds haven't even cleared yet.
When your bank sees this sort of activity, they immediately become suspicious and freeze your account.

Read this

>>5120262
So the money you've "made" is lost because Coinbase (rightfully) flagged your account as high risk. Now your fucked. Coinbase is fucked too. Because a potential customer's money is no longer flowing.
It's best to think of Coinbase as a retail outlet that let's you buy coins, which you can either use to buy product or transfer somewhere else for trading. The safest way to use their service is to make a transaction, then wait (like a dinosaur) for the ACH to clear before initiating another transaction. Coinbase is not an exchange. Those who use it at such put both themselves and the company at risk. I would argue that you also put the entire bitcoin protocol at risk, since you make the banks hate us even more than they already do.

>>5120236
Really? Do you have billions in liquidity to open up payment channels and settlements? Because if you want international commerce to be used in your channel then you'll need millions/billions of liquidity within your channel.

No, you probably don't. JP Morgan does as do other banks and all international commerce consisting of millions/billions can only be conducted on channels with enough liquidity to cover settlements.

Payment channels are literally what legacy banking systems do now. I fucking hate you all, but hey the price is going up!

>>5120303

But things do get cheaper. People have more assets and better SOL than ever. The actual dollar numbers are smoke and mirrors.

>>5120350
he will just call you a cuck and leave the thread kek

>>5120330
Bitcoin can handle larger than Visa level transactions already via on chain scaling. Segwit is dog shit and LN is legacy banking control.

>>5120330
>Ad hom
>atomic swap meme aka litecoin
Jes, you have no idea how memes work and spread, let alone are able to see when a narrative change happens. Don't get cought with your pants down normie

>>5120358
>What is real estate, food, fuel etc

Yes they are inflating slower than we are progressing, but this is still outright theft of your purchasing power.

>>5120267
there will be no crash...

>>5120350
>do you have millions in your payment channel
I will when BTC hits 100k

>payment channels are what legacy banks do now
Yeah, because they work

>bcash bcash bcash
Good luck with your 100 petabyte blocks nigger

>>5120350

No they're are gigantic differences between payment channels and legacy banking systems. For one, you don't have to trust your counter party, there's no way to fractionally reserve because you have to lock up blockchain funds in a multi-sig address for EVERY new connection, if they violate any agreements you have cryptographic proof you can broadcast to get all of their funds in the funding transaction as penalty. Can you punish your banker for doing anything to scam you in the traditional banking system?

>>5120410

Who is stealing my purchasing power? Who pockets the difference?

>>5120443
There's no point arguing with disgusting bcashies just short their coin and smile at their misery

>>5119947
/thread

btw, anybody knows what a bearish divergence is?

>>5120450
When money is created your purchasing power is taken.

>>5118443
Nah senpai. There are way too many people eyeing BTC for it to drop that low. They're going to pounce the second it drops a bit. Everyone is desperately trying to hop on the train.

If there's going to be a correction, it's not going to happen in the traditional sense

>>5120429
Wow really feeling like we're banking the unbanked now! You only need millions to partake in the market now!

>>5120443
LN is creating a layer in which norman users will never interact with the blockchain and will instead be dependent on third parties to maintain payment channels. They are anything but trustless, just look at a hub network diagram. They are not decentralized at all. I never made the argument about fractional reserve so idk wtf you're talking about. LN does run on a system of IOU's but that's not the issue.

>>5120443
Also you're underestimating how ferocious the competition will be between these hubs. The barrier to entry to starting a lightning hub is 10000000000000x lower than starting a bank. If sheckelstein wants to charge high fees or require KYC/AML to connect to his node, they're by definition making their node hard to use so he will have less connections then someone who doesn't do those things.

>>5120450
People closer to the endless money spigot, i.e. the Federal Reserve. By the time you get any dollars from the Federal Reserve lowering interest rates or QEing, every hedge fund, investment bank, and trad bank have already turned that free money over so many times it's priced in, i.e. your purchasing power has gone down. It's literally the greatest scam in the world and nobody cares because they only lose 2-4% per year. To put that in context, in 70 years (avg. human life), anything you started with in now worth 24% of what it was.

>>5118416
You don't know much about correcting, do you?

P.S. U mad cuz u still haven't bought any BTC? Probs just sucking on Roger Ver's cock and buying bitcoin cash LUL

>>5120530
>KYC/AML
The implication with running a LN is that everyone will have to do this.

>>5120475
It's not just the Bcashies, it's the traders as a whole. Two groups hodlers and wanna be traders.

Those of us with jobs and gains want to spend, not fork over our money so the govt can use it to ruin the country

>>5120529
>banking the unbanked
Nobody ever fucking said some apefrican nigger should be able to open a payment channel for international settlements. When you live on $2 a day a $10 payment channel is enough to do everything you already did. You cashie trashies just want to pretend like any level of specialization of labor is bad at all but completely ignore that no apefrican niggers are gonna be able to operate a full node with 100 petabyte blocks. Probably not even 1 gigabyte blocks. Disgusting cashies.

>>5120537
I care anon. Im in the mid 6 figures in BTC and I would rather lose it than sell. I am HODL until I can spend.

>>5120560
The fuck do traders care about the lightning network other than trading the hype?

>>5120629
They are fudding BTC to promote their shitty alt. Only a retard would fall for this. They are all just lying to each other.

>>5120592
>I want a checking account, not digital cash because I'm a central banking bootlicking faggot

Read the fucking whitepaper you double nigger. You literally have no idea how any of this fucking works or how networks are distributed. You're the cancer killing crypto.

>>5120620
>sell it
>lose it
Those are the same thing; monopoly money fiat is so worthless 2 out of 3 central banks pay you to borrow it from them.

>>5120537

But the funds and banks are made up of people's money. Shouldn't people benefit from these entities profiting in the end and hence not lose their purchasing power?

>>5120629
pretty easy, I don't want to Jewy Mc Jew and the goberment to see that I shift around 6 figures when I have only like 3 figures and 100K in debt for them to see

>>5118768
Elaborate please.

I've heard of some scammy shit going on with tether, some crypto was "hacked" and no one got refunded. In fact, Bitifinex gave ALL account a 36% haircut. And there's nothing the customer can do about it. Sounds kinda like the IRS.

EVERY exchange uses tether? Including altcoin? What about those secondary startups like the cryptocurrency collateral lending companies?

>>5120660
>They are fudding BTC to promote their shitty alt.

I FUD BTC all the time because it's a shit currency and I don't promote any alts because I don't think any of the current ones are good enough to take over

>>5120723
What are you doing here lol? Are you fucking retarded or something?

>BRB going to a hockey thread to tell everyone how gay hockey is

>>5120529
>>5120529
>I never made the argument about fractional reserve so idk wtf you're talking about.
You compared LN nodes to banks, banks use fractional reserve. I'm saying the difference between this and banks is that with this they give you cryptographic proof that the funds are there at a 1-1 ratio and they give you a signature that you can broadcast to impose a severe penalty on them of getting all the BTC in the funding transaction if they break any of the agreements in the smart contract.

>>5120559
Then sending and receiving regular bitcoin transactions requires KYC/AML as well.

>>5118866

In all honesty I hope you get filthy rich from BTC. I hope you make millions, anon. But there is some serious concern that needs addressing. Bitcoin is slow, cumbersome, and costly to move, and can't easily be exchanged for material goods. There are several objectively better cryptocurrencies.

>>5120793
LN will do nicely. I'm not going to carry my full stack around on my phone anon. Load up a couple hundred for the week and the bar just like I do with cash now.

>>5120664
>read the fucking whitepaper
Who gives a fuck about muh whitepaperz; read the fucking green bars i.e. your coin is worth shit and BTC is king.

>I want a checking account not digital cash
I want a checking account with digital cash in it.

>central bank bootlicking faggot
Says the one who advocates having an exabyte blockchain that maybe 0.01% of users will bother keeping a full node with.

>hurr it's centralized
There's a difference between ONE central authority and specialization of labor. Anyone with more than the average amount of BTC can choose to lock up their BTC in a payment channel and earn interest on their BTC for facilitating payments between parties and other connected payment channels. The primary people running significant payment channels are going to be exchanges in the beginning, because guess who has all the BTC. That's right, the exchanges, so anything you fucking say about "muh centralized" is just as true of the exchanges now as it would be of the lightning network then. Except the lightning network makes it possible to actually USE BTC for payments instead of being constantly tied to fiat and central banks.

bcash isn't even autistic, it's just STUPID. To be visa scale, you need to go from your 8MB block to a 100GB block, and you have zero way of doing microtransactions because the fees will still be high because of the volume of transactions and the willingness of first-worlders and whales to pay higher fees to secure their txns. You're fucking frauds and Bitcoin Jesus says you will go to hell. Dump your BTC now so we can get rid of you fucks forever.

>>5120754
>Sir please stop doing something that impacts me making more money off of dumb people

>>5120675
People benefit; but the benefits are not distributed equally amongst all people. For example, since 2007 when the low interest rate regime went full retard and QE started, the top 1% have gotten unbelievably richer but wages for the rest have stagnated and the poor actually make less now than they used to. That's entirely because the free money from the endless spigot goes to the well-banked first, then the less banked, then prices, and finally the cash economy.

>>5120842
It was a serious question. Please tell me you shorted BTC anon.

>>5120775
Stop talking about fractional reserve. I understand that LN payment channels are full reserve and payments are guaranteed. That isn't my fucking critique of it ffs. You're ignoring my entire argument and pulling a strawman way out of left fucking field, so drop it already.

Normal bitcoin transfers don't require KYC because you're processing payments. You're sending and receiving cash, which is entirely different than contractual settlements. Which is what LN is, contractual settlements that occur within a payment channel. Hmm, I think there might be laws regarding payment processors and contracting?...

>>5120821
You're actually not worth arguing with.

>>5120720
Kraken, Gemini (I think), and Coinbase aren't exclusively tether and allow direct fiat to crypto.

>>5120821
>Who gives a fuck about muh whitepaperz; read the fucking green bars i.e. your coin is worth shit and BTC is king.
hahahahahahaha
I hope you didn't took a loan at 10K to buy more

>>5120821
They're retarded. Another point is that there's a million attacks you can do with centralization of mining. But you literally can't attack the network with a well connected lightning hub. If you do something, it's written in the software that you get fucked over. And if you ban people from using your node that only "attacks" your own node, not the network.

>>5120866
>Please tell me you shorted BTC anon.

I wouldn't because BTC in the short term is still gonna go up. I don't see the thing lasting another two years though. Me owning and making money off of BTC and being realistic about its future prospects aren't mutually exclusive things

agree with everything you said, but it's still more convenient than gold.

>>5120878
There are also laws regarding money transfers and claiming to be a currency but they can't be enforced when it comes to bitcoin because it's decentralized. If the US government demands all LN nodes provide KYC it just means it will be illegal to run LN nodes in the US. People will still run them there and internationally.

>>5118416
>useless shitcoin
>still wants it
;)

>>5120878
>you're literally winning too hard I have to give up
For anyone listening to this fucking retard; please watch Bitcoin Jesus talk about these issues instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AecPrwqjbGw

Literally tells you EXACTLY why block size increases are not the solution.

How the lightning network works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrr_zPmEiME

>>5120896
so you are handing over the control over your transactions and keys from the original protocol to the bankers side chain protocol.

please leave crypto and invest in visa shares

>>5120892
Have you read the lightning network whitepaper? You can make at least 200k for pointing out the mistake in their mathematics. Oh, you don't know enough mathematics to actually understand a whitepaper? Then fuck off.

>>5120961
The lightning network isn't a sidechain. Learn the basics first.

>>5120961
It's like a wallet dummy, throw a couple hundred in it and away you go.

>He thinks he's going to walk around with a million dollars of chainlink in his phone.

Not gonna happen faggot, educate yourself.

>>5120857

So the only way to avoid getting shafted is to be rich in the first place? Or is it to have bubble-free assets that are independent from fiat ?

>>5120961
>handing over control over your transactions
How? You initiate the transaction and possibly the payment channel, you get to choose when to end it (or if you're the bad actor, your counterparty can end it) and commit it to the blockchain as of the time both parties last mutually signed.

>keys from original protocol
Nobody is saying anything about private keys.

>bankers side chain protocol
You keep saying "banker" and refuse to acknowledge that in the lightning network the individual node user IS the "banker" for the people connected to their node.

Please leave this planet.

>>5120944
Its current unenforceable because of decentralization. Anyone and everyone can broadcast to the network. Hub networks are centralized and identifiable, thus enforceable. You also need to have millions to billions to run partake in the network/economy at large, whereas blockchain coins anyone with a wallet can partake in the network/economy.

>>5120811
I'm glad bitcoin is addressing these issues. I hope Lightning Network works out for it. I think this ship has sailed for me, but I'll be sure to get in on the secondary startups around crypto

>>5121060
The point was to hold a deflationary asset. Something with a hard capped provable limit - BTC.

>>5120961
You "hand over' control over nothing in the lightning network. Each counterparty exchanges signatures that guarantee all the funds in the funding transaction case the other party doesn't cooperate.

https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf

>Since any signed Commitment Transaction may be broadcast on the blockchain, and only one can be successfully broadcast, it is necessary to prevent old Commitment Transactions from being broadcast. It is not possible to revoke tens of thousands of transactions in Bitcoin, so an alternate method is necessary. Instead of active revocation enforced by the blockchain, it’s necessary to construct the channel itself in similar manner to a Fidelity Bond, whereby both parties make commitments, and 11 violations of these commitments are enforced by penalties. If one party violates their agreement, then they will lose all the money in the channel.

>>5121064
>I don't know the importance of liquidity
>socialism is magic

>>5121074
It hasn't started yet. Look at the webm in this thread. Banks are panicking about the potential to lose the payment industry. When it becomes clear this is going to happen they will all pile in and we will be 1,000,000 seemingly over night.

>>5121060
In the case of monopoly money fiat, even being rich doesn't stop you from getting shafted. You have to put your money into a risk(ier) asset that returns more than inflation, because inflation constantly eats at all asset prices.

>in crypto
Deflationary cryptos do the opposite, people are incentivized to save rather than spend. Inflationary cryptos are no different in this sense from fiat. There is no crypto (yet) that has a market-based mechanism for controlling it's own interest rate.

>bubble-free
There is no such thing as bubble-free because bubbles are an outcome of rational actors behaving on their expectations.

>>5121066
>identifiable
By ip? That can be circumvented easily. Theoretically you could also identify miners by energy usage patterns and shut them down. In practice others would just pop up instead. If there's money to be made in LN nodes the same applies. The harder they fight it the more control will be distributed.

>>5121109
You don't even know what liquidity means, stop trying to make yourself look smarter by greentexting you fucking newfag.

>>5120986
>>5121033
>>5121064
>>5121108
Hey, I still have buttcoins in sell orders, go and buy them and lets hope your local Pizzeria and that of Mishima has enough funds to forward your transaction

>>5121133

But wouldn't you say that gold for example less not as "bubbly" as say a house in canada?

>>5121168
how to spot a newfag. using the word newfag

>>5121231
I have enough for a lifetime thank you very much

>>5121250
But don't trust you, as much as I don't trust a bank to know what I'm about to send to another user I have an agreement with.

>>5121237
People have lost faith in gold. Unknown supply, and rife with fraud. Even high end Manhattan stores have been suckered.

Would you buy from a stranger? If so I have some to sell you. You have to go to a dealer, get fucked for 20% on both sides of the transaction and still could get ripped off.

That's they appeal of crypto, there's no alternative with the same merits.

>>5121066
>hub networks
It's a hub&spoke with redundancy, making it much harder to target and shut down. Also, this exact argument is why the actual LN nodes will probably keep smaller amounts of BTC locked in any individual payment channel, because that makes it harder for the FBI/SEC to pick out any individual LN node to shut down. This combined with the fact that you can use multiple LN payment channels each with part of your overall transaction make it very difficult to identify and enforce financial regulations. All this on top of the fact that if the FBI really wanted to they can already track exactly where the fuck every satoshi involved came from down to the genesis block once they seize a BTC address that is involved with whatever crime they are investigating, and can tag anyone they want with RICO if they wanted to. The point is that it costs a fuckton to do that. You're still a nigger.

>you need to have millions to partake in the economy
Literally why? You can buy a fraction of a BTC from a dealer, put it in your wallet and LN transact for a coffee. Congratulations, you participated. You need to have millions to matter in the economy, but that's how economies work.

>You also need to have millions to billions to run partake in the network/economy at large
>blockchain coins anyone with a wallet can partake in the network/economy
See how he leaves out the "at large"? That's because he is a cashie shill. The latter statement is false if you add "at large".

>>5121118
Well, I could only afford a quarter of a bitcoin, so I'd only be pulling in 250k. However, I can invest in SALT or XRP or whatever, wait a few years, and potentially become far richer

>>5121297
Who sends money to a dude? You buy shit from a store anon...you know that right?

Do you have stores in your country? Or like Amazon or something?

>>5118768

>Muh tether
COPE

>>5121334
You'll never pick the right one. Some lucky retard probably beat apple with a penny stock this year but who really made the money anon

>>5118768
>Every Exchange using USDTethers.

GDAX is USD

>>5121237
Gold is relatively deflationary compared to houses; but there have been bubbles in silver and gold as well. A bubble is the result of the majority of the market believing the price will go up, so they buy it and that fulfills the belief, creating a positive feedback loop.

>are bubbles bad or good
They're neutral; if you just sit on your ass bubble and bust cycle will get smoothed out. This is the idea behind dollar-cost-averaging, e.g. buying $100 worth of BTC every week. If the price is high, you get less BTC but that means you bought less at a high, if the price is low you bought more at a low.

>>5121334
>xrp
>bitches about central banks
Yeah now EVERYONE knows you're full of shit

>i can only afford a quarter of a BTC
>i can buy millions of XRP
>I'll be far richer in a few years
t. doesn't understand % return

>>5121336
>Amazon
Jesus fucking Christ, you are the definition of a good goy. fyi, no I don't use amazon to buy stuff, I look up who the seller is and contact him and agree to buy something outside amazon. And in my country I avoid to buy stuff from some cooperate whore stores as much as possible.

>>5121311
>blockchain coins anyone with a wallet partake in the network/economy at large

Happy? Its not false you're just a blockstream shill.

>>5121432
That sucks man, sorry to hear that. I assumed you were a first worlder.

I have more money than I know what to do with.

>>5121435
Ok, now explain how someone with 5000 bcash satoshis can partake in the economy at large. They have blockchain coins; they have a wallet; but they're still can't do shit.

>>5121360
Thanks man, it is tempting. I have the weekend to decide. I placed an order to sell a stock I made really good returns on so come Monday, transfer those funds to coinbase and get to work.

https://explorer.acinq.co

>>5121502
Godspeed anon

>>5121476
You can trade without asking permission. LN isn't permissionless see hub networking.

>>5118833
What. The. FUCK

>Why the scary screaming man’s face on here arm though

>>5121468
hehehehehehe.
>You are poor bähhhh
fuck, are all bcore cultist such cooperate whores and banker boot lickers theses days? An no, I'm from a country with an average income and standard of living in the top 5, doesn't mean I willingly cooperate with banksters and other Jews

>>5121551
spoop'd

>>5121559
>The mainstream solution with the most development and support is the autistic one

You're so close anon, but you gotta be just autistic enough to understand crypto, not so autistic as to buy chainlink.

>>5121559
Come on anon, if history shows us anything, it's best to side with the Jews

>>5121537
>you can trade without permission
all functionality is still there within the BTC network after LN; and if you mean "trade" as in exchange to fiat and back for profit, you can still do that.

>trade as in exchange for goods and services
Assuming the counterparty wants your money, all that happens is an initial transaction creates the payment channel, and then if you repeatedly spend there it all counts as 1 transaction. If you don't have a channel open with someone but someone you have a channel with does, you can use both channels. It's perfectly "permissionless" assuming you have permission from the counterparty to do the transaction in the first place. You can't FORCE someone to give you a blowjob for BCH, either. You'd have to get their permission.

>>5121610
why do you assume I own chainlink?
I just hate the direction buttcoin took with fegwit and the blockbitches selling out to muah big money

>>5121657
now you start being silly Yid

>>5118833
Why is adolf Hitler Photoshop into the back left??

>>5121559
>banker boot lickers
Why do bcashies just repeat the same ad hominem over and over? Are you bots or shills? How much does shareblue pay you to FUD BTC?

>>5121551
you saw the führer and read the label too? fucking autist kek

>>5121713
>>5121704
Because /pol/ has an obsession with failed 1930s ideologies created by jews

>>5121665
That all sounds well and good, but what you're forgetting is liquidity. In order to have a channel open worth a fuck it needs liquidity. In order for payments to finalize the channel needs to close and settle on the blockchain which costs heaps of cash. Thus the only incentive to run a LN node is to not spend the money but to provide liquidity and collect a fee. Which might be all well and good if the amount set aside was arbitrary, but it is not.

So if you have some bitcoin and I have some bitcoin we can open a channel and trade back and forth for eternity, but that money is locked until we settle on the blockchain. So what is going to happen is firms with lots of capital will open up channels that users will connect to and they themselves never broadcast to the blockchain.

>>5121741
>lets post a merchant that will show him
don't try to compete with me on that one
>Why do [insert ad hom]
Because it is true. For the lightening shit to work, you need third parties with high liquidity, not just some random several TB hdd for some $200 to run a nod. As I wrote above, I have enough buttcoins in sell order, go and buy them

It will be a mess.

Brand recognition >> Tech, retards

Apple proved this a long time ago. People don't want to buy what works best, they want to buy what they've heard of

If you haven't figured this out yet, I don't even know why you're still in this market

>>5121952
no, just the flippening and bankers and their pets getting burnt and having to deal with a lot of angry rice niggers and russian mafia who are more than willing to trade some heads for their loses in the most literal sense

>>5121559
Mainstream adoption means jew adoption. For grandma to buy the christmas presents with her bitcoins there needs to be a company that provides an end user experience. The difference is they don't need to be trusted with anything anymore and don't own what you deposit with them. They won't really be bankers, just user support who provide interfaces for transactions. If traditional banks get into running LN nodes they've submitted to the decentralized rules and have lost control. Can't even do fractional reserve banking anymore.

You can still do on chain transactions directly or use other cryptos but grandma won't be dealing with that shit.

>>5122041
As I repeat the whole time. You buttcoiners are nothing but greedy normies. Buy more of them, make profit, but stop trying to sell the true believers your fucking shit and just fuck off to the platforms which belongs to you.

>>5122041
>LN is easy for grandma to use

Hand holding for the layman is reserved for 3rd party services like Coinbase and Bitpay. LN does nothing for ease of use.

>>5118443
I fucking hope so
> LTC holder here
shame I only have 10, wish it would drop to the original $30 so I can get another 100

>>5122263
>original 30
Kek new fag.

>>5121857
>in order for payments to finalize the channel needs to close which costs cash
You can't "know" that yet; because the cash required to settle the payment channel on the official blockchain is the fee for broadcasting 1 txn. Since the payment channel may have had 100 transactions in it, the fee would be 1/100th it is today if every channel was similar.

>the incentive to run a LN node is to collect a fee
Exactly; it's the same as proof-of-stake. In proof-of-stake, you have to keep your coins in your wallet to accumulate coindays for staking, in LN, you have to keep your coins locked in the channel to collect "stake", i.e. fees.

>that money is locked until we settle it on the blockchain
Given that we have to settle it, which we don't.

>firms with lots of capital will open up channels between themselves and users will never broadcast to the blockchain
Sure, in as much as the firms can avoid having to settle balances between themselves. VISA has a 30 day settlement period; nobody knows what crypto will have.

>hurr that's centralized
Nobody is saying you can't be a firm if you have the BTC to do it, and nobody is saying you can't open smaller LN nodes. As long as you have the security of the blockchain to rely on in the case of a bad actor, which you always do because both parties can broadcast the contract to the blockchain at any time to settle, you're protected.

>>5122332
that's when I bought it. When it was pennies I thought to myself
> only bitcoin will ever be worth something all these shitcoins will never make it
> tfw had the option to get XMR when it was pennies
> tfw had the option to get litecoin in pennies
just end it /biz/, I'm tired of feeling.

>>5122116
These are hard truths I've had to face not what I wished was true. For years I believed some random altcoin would replace btc because they all had something better to offer. I've simply been proven wrong, the adoption rate and price is not mainly about features like transaction speed or ease of use and you can't hard fork. The most important thing for adoption is trust that it stores the value of whatever you exchange for it.

>>5122138
Exchanges are only an interface for the coin as a store of value. More diverse hand holding companies like PoS suppliers can only grow if the underlying tech works well for transactions and is trusted as a store of value. So pretty much only if Lightning works well.

>>5122384
ltc was between 2 and 4 for fucking 4 years
Jes new fag, stop posting and start lurking

>>5121876
>hurr buy my imaginary sell orders
If you want to organize an off-exchange transaction, you're going to need to provide a price and a neutral 3rd party escrow.

>you need third parties with high liquidity
You and the other cashie are using the word liquidity wrong. You don't need people with liquidity, you need people with large amounts, and you need them to REMOVE the liquidity by locking it up in a payment channel.

>you need third parties
It depends on the size of the deal and the larger the deal gets the more it makes sense to just put it on the blockchain instead. For example, if you want to move $1k worth of BTC it costs like $10 in fees, a 1% fee is competitive with VISA. If you want to move $10 worth of BTC, it's still around $10 in fees, but $10 of BTC is only 53,000 satoshis; you don't need a major player for that.

>>5122444
> The most important thing for adoption is trust that it stores the value of whatever you exchange for it.
I'm sorry for you, you followed the devil into the darkness and are calling him the lightbringer. Get lucky, I get rid of my bankers coins, Now go and buy them

>>5122116
>>5122013
>be afraid goys
Make an argument

>>5122551
OPEN
LEDGER
controlled by banks and goberments

>>5122506
>kikes kikes kikes kikes kikes
/pol/ still failing to make an argument.

>>5122384
Just be happy you're in now. This shit is still in its infancy

>>5122378
You're missing the entire point. Even someone with millions in liquidity isn't enough to become a primary hub in international commerce. It will literally be the same kikes running central banking now that will control central hubs connecting international commerce. Smaller nodes are irrelevant if they have to contend with larger ones that have the ability to censor their transactions on a global scale. There is nothing in the protocol with LN that will prevent centralized hubs, in fact it promotes it.

>>5122444
The underlying tech "blockchain" works just fine and can scale to meet transaction needs today. LN is a hostile takeover of the network to consolidate payments into channels that are easily controlled.

>>5122567
>controlled by banks and gubmints
proofs? We all know the NSA is Nakamoto SAtoshi, besides that the gubmint has said BTC is a "speculative asset" and "pay your tax goyim". Literally nothing indicates that BTC has been compromised by a central bank.

>>5122624
LN requires high liquidity
Means trust in third parties
Means doesn't work with the original idea of trustless payments

>>5122624
>We all know the NSA is Nakamoto SAtoshi
presents no evidence
>Literally nothing indicates that BTC has been compromised by a central bank
ignores evidence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g