/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>51203184
>here let me just hold your money for you for 45 years lol, dont worry about it haha no you cant touch it or i'll charge you for it

>>51203184
don't bother right now putting ANYTHING into the market. the best way to win is to time it and trust me it'll be very easy to time the market crash coming. investing now is just throwing your money into an incinerator and waiting 20 years to get it back with maybe 100 extra bucks. don't be a slave, don't do anything in investing for about 2 years or when you hear about the crash coming everyone will be talking about it so you'll know that's the time to start buying.
DO
NOT
INVEST
A
DIME

>>51203184
>Are 401ks a scam?
yes

>>51203184
>This shit seems like a ponzi scheme to prop up conventional markets
yes

>>51203184
>Should I just opt out of my companys 401k
no probably not. Even without the match you literally get to invest 20k tax free. Even if you withdrawal early you get compounding interest on that extra $5-8k a year that would otherwise be going to uncle sam. This is all dependent on your income levels and other factors ofc

>>51203184
Yeah bro don't invest at all. Retirement is soooo far off bro.

>>51203256
it actually is though, I'm 23 and haven't put a single dime into my company offered 401k, a friend of mine put 6% into it when he started in 2020 and guess how much he's made? NEGATIVE he's literally NEGATIVE ON THE YEAR ALMOST 2K I'm good I'll wait I have no reason to invest and I don't have to worry about taxes either cause lol paying taxes to the corrupt states of America
fuck boomers
fuck America
and fuck the fed

>>51203304
>NEGATIVE he's literally NEGATIVE ON THE YEAR ALMOST 2K

i don't know if you've heard the news but the market went down a little

>>51203220
>lose your money to inflation because some nig on 4chin said to time the market
k then

>>51203304
Based non-investor. Make sure to take out a big ass loan on an f350 too, that thing is BADASS.

>>51203184

TSP and 401k are scams for sure. Invest in crypto instead.

Max out your 401k, don't be retarded

>>51203768
never said I wouldn't invest I'm just not stupid to be suckered into a money pit like you or
>>51203705
>>51203749
ultimately while you guys hold the bag, I'll be able to. easily swoop on with cash to invest in everything when the crash happens and trust me, it's happening so I expect to retire by 30 you faggots are stuck holding a bag until 65 LMAO LATER BOOMERS

>>51203184
>Zoomers are this retarded
Sad!

>>51203220
>He doesn't know you can select a money market account for your 401(k)

>>51204216
nigga a fucking savings account right now is pretty close in interest to a money market account you old fat boomer I don't expect to get rich and I don't want to especially right now. I'm enjoying my life not worrying about money unlike you lmao

>>51204329
>Put in an amount that matches the company contribution
>Instant 50% return with zero risk

"I don't expect to get rich and I don't want to especially right now"

Good thing your browsing /biz/, you won't have to worry about unexpectedly getting rich.

>>51204329
>Put in an amount that matches the company contribution
>Instant 100% return with zero risk

"I don't expect to get rich and I don't want to especially right now"

Good thing your browsing /biz/, you won't have to worry about unexpectedly getting rich.

>>51203184
Yes, because all 401k money goes into the pockets of Blackrock/Vanguard, and they use your "stock" to force corporations into making decisions that make absolutely no sense.

If you have a 401k, sell all your stocks and move into bonds, because debt is actually worthless to them since it gives them no shareholder voting power.

>>51204216
Imagine trusting money markets... aka unsecured Eurodollar deposits outside FDIC insurance or Fed control.

>>51203888
Yes! Give all your money to Blackrock so they can put more ugly minorities in TV ads!

>>51204528
Thrifts offer FDIC insured money market accounts. My institution has them. They're like extremely limited NOW accounts or a savings account where the allotted convenience withdrawals may include negotiable instruments.

>>51204020
>>51204329
bro you literally sound retarded lmao. 401k is literally free money, what are you such a poorfag that you can't save anything after getting that company match? It's literally a tax-free safety net that beats your bank account

>>51203184
Just do 4% to get your company match, then put 6k a year in a Roth IRA, or whatever the maximum is. The benefit of the Roth IRA is that you can take out what you put in at any time without penalty, and you can withdraw your earnings faster, at like 62, instead of 65, and your earnings are all tax free. So when you retire you get all your money tax free. Also, with a Roth IRA, you can control what you actually invest in if you want.

>>51205143
What are you, a Roth IRA salesman?

>and you can withdraw your earnings faster, at like 62, instead of 65

Did you literally just make this up? You can always withdraw your earnings, but you might owe tax on them if you are under 59.5 years old and/or you have not had the Roth for 5 years or longer. Not sure where 62 or 65 came from.

>>51205349
I am not a Roth salesman, but I do want him to make a better choice than dumping money into a 401k. But yeah, I made a mistake on the 62 instead of 59 because I was too lazy to look it up to confirm.

>>51204216
imagine the smell

Roth IRA always seemed like a bad move. Why would I pay taxes up front when our dog shit government and financial institutions can just decide to tax me again later?

>>51205507
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you’re taxed up front on all your money ever. The difference is you pay income tax on your Roth contributions like normal with the rest of your money, and with a 401k you have to hope the government somehow taxes you less instead of more when you retire. Also, with a 401k, you’re paying taxes on your earnings as well, and with a Roth, you’re only paying taxes on your contributions, so obviously, it’s less.

>>51203220
this poster is either retarded or jewish

>>51205780
Roth is just taxed up front, 401k is taxed at the end. And yes, if your gains are substantial as they should be over decades, then Roth is better.

>>51203184
Obviously yes

>>51203184
401ks are definitely a societal evil, but it is in your best interest to contribute up to your limit. It's free money and even if you get hit with the penalty you still gain. Unless you are refusing it purely for ethnical reasons its a good thing. I don't go over the matching though.

>>51203184
> you get to keep some money you earned
Thanks

social security (which 401K is part of) will collapse before you will be able to benefit from it. All the money you pay into it now will probably not be avaible to you once the demographic ponzi collapses. Do you really think in 45 years the government will just willingly let you take out all your money? Lmao get real.

>>51203184
Always contribute enough to get the full match - it's basically free money.

>>51205507
Its a sound move because one, your taxes have never gone down over time ever, and two, you are virtually gauranteed to retire and cash your 401k or IRA at a much higher tax braket than you were in when you started investing.

>>51206159
>>51206293
These anons are right, OP. Hit your match, and if you still want to invest further, you can dump up to 6k/year in an IRA. My only caveat is that your 401k should give you options to invest in particular sectors of the economy, such as REITs, ag commodities, energy, etc... If your only choices are to either pick a target date fund or a "growth stock" fund comprised of mostly apple and Microsoft you may be better off missing out on the match and going full IRA.

>>51203184
>account you cant touch until you are 70
literally useless, pissed i did one at all i have $40k trapped in there

>>51205446
Ozone from the cheap CRT TV mixed with Chef Boyardee Ravioli sitting on the VCR beneath it.

>>51203184

Yes, paying less taxes and planning on being alive after age 59.5 is definitely a scam

>>51205041
The taxes are just delayed, really. Good probability of them going higher in the future too after your 401k is "unlocked." Still likely worth it up to the company match though, I imagine. I wouldn't put more in though, personally. Would rather stay liquid.

>>51207380
If you don't think you're going to live to 59, then take out your $40K, pay taxes and 10% penalty, and blow it all on whatever you like. It's not "trapped" unless you are still employed there. And even then you get a low interest loan off it, with special perks if you use it to buy a home.

>>51203304
you do realize that 401k are investment tools like any other... right? that being said, it's subject to volatility, like every investment vehicle on the market. it's the employee's responsibility to choose the safest fund to park his pre-taxed funds. if he's negative, that's entirely his fault, not the market or the vehicle.

it's like a retard who suddenly realized that he's gotten a boatload of malware due to frequent visits to dubious sites and blaming his ISP for allowing his computer to get infected. utterly asinine. you children have no idea what you're doing or even talking about.

>>51203184
Considering my dads booMer gf lost literally 100k in her 401k recently I’d say fuck em. It’s funny cause she’s always giving out cocky Dave Ramsey style boomy boom boomer advice (taking cheap shots acting like she knows it all). My dad said she was in tears lol! All my father talks about is “mUH retirement”.

It’s sad really, they slaved away for decades trying to make it to 65 to finally be done working! Well your life is about over at that time, and then the elites want to vax you up to get you off their tit quicker lol. What a meme!! enjoy your life now OP. Don’t listen to the slaves on here, liquidate your assets, go to foreign lands and do everything you want to do now! Your not promised tomorrow, and by the time we get to that age the world will be unrecognizable and I highly doubt the coming generations will slave away for you to retire anyway.

>>51207543
This. With 100% employer match, the penalty is easily worth it. Obviously if we enter another 30s-50s-tier bear market, that doesn't apply, but for most of the last 50 years, employer-provided 401k has been worth it.

>>51203304
I'm not an American
what if you invest 401k in your company and then you switch job? what happens to the 401k?

>>51209782
You roll it over into a traditional IRA.

>>51203184
It’s deferred taxes to keep you in a higher tax bracket after retiring. You most likely won’t have any deductions then and taxes are sure to be higher. Take the money now.

>>51203184
I'm a firm believer that everyone should contribute to their 401k, but you have to do it the right way.

First of all, you should do a Roth 401k where you pay the tax up front. That way you're paying taxes on the $200 per week you're putting in instead of the $2 million you'll have when you retire.
Peter Thiel has something like $5 billion in his Roth IRA account, and the government can't touch it.
Most people just set up a regular 401k account and don't do a bit of research beyond what some braindead retirement consultant tells everyone to do.

The other part you have to do is look through all the different options available to contribute to. just selecting the "2050 Retirement Fund" and thinking you'll be fine is the worst thing you can do.
See what funds have the best track record and also have the lowest yearly fee associated with them.
Personally, I divide my contributions up into 4 places:
30% S&P500 Fund
30% Large Cap Market Fund
30% Small Cap Market Fund
10% Bonds

Pic related is a really good book that lays all this out exceptionally well.
My uncle retired in his 50's with a very comfortable amount of money becuase he was very consistent with his money. He never made more than 100k/year and raised 2 kids through college.

He also put a decent amount of money into the stock market during the 08 recession that helped put him over the edge when it was time to retire.

We're all here hoping to find the perfect 1000x that will take us out of wagie slavery hell, but we all need to be just as diligent with a plan B that we slowly work toward.

>>51203231
>>51205041
>muh tax savings
>taxes
>2018 + 4

>>51211199
>First of all, you should do a Roth 401k where you pay the tax up front

My ROSE Oasis wallet is my retirement fund you faggots

I’ve had both since I was 18 & entered the workforce full time. In the beginning it was like $20 a paycheck, it was the best thing I ever did. I’m 30
Now & there’s nearly 100k between my Roth & 401k. I have many more alternative investments, crypto, guns, mechanical, watches, gold & silver, art, whole life ins, & also max out my allowed purchase of I-bonds each year. No reason to not be as diversified as possible.

>>51206448
>If your only choices are to either pick a target date fund or a "growth stock" fund comprised of mostly apple and Microsoft you may be better off missing out on the match and going full IRA.

Interesting... Can you explain further, please?

>>51212216
He’s being retarded. Always take advantage of the company contribution at the bare minimum. 100% instant return that will probably grow better than handpicking stocks in an IRA.

>>51206051
maybe I'm sub-iq but you're tax implications depend on your withdrawl amount and you're never going to withdrawl the whole thing so why tf does roth beat a higher principle with traditional? I always see the tax implications stated as black and white but it really isnt?

>>51205041
Do you literally use the word "literally" once in every sentence?

>>51212051
diversification is a hedge against ignorance
do you have 10 jobs? no you have one = not diversified
diversification is such a fucking meme i can't
you diversify AFTER you make it, not before.

I’ve been DCAing into my 401k for 10 years and I have almost $100k in there now. Pretty awful return but at least it’s somewhat safe. If I’d invested more into crypto instead though I’d be a multi millionaire now.

>>51209782
You have the option of either rolling it over to another retirement plan, or you can withdraw it without the 10% penalty, but you’ll still need to pay income tax on it when you file your tax return for that year.

>>51213929
To be clear, you don’t have to handpick your investments in a Roth IRA; you just have the option to. You can dump it into a retirement fund if you want still.

>>51214409
Yeah, looking closer at the math I think you're right and I spoke too soon.

Take a simple example: 100k initial, 10% annual returns, compounded quarterly over 30yrs. Assume a flat 22% tax bracket that never changes (unrealistic but let's go with it).

With 401k: the 100k initial is not taxed, and 30yrs later you have $1.936M. In retirement, every withdrawal is taxed as income. In our constrained example, if you withdrew the full amount at 22% tax rate, you'd have $1.510M.

With a Roth IRA: the 100k initial is taxed, leaving 78k. 30yrs later you have $1.510M. There are no taxes applied beyond the initial.

So in practice, I agree with you that it depends on how much you're withdrawing in retirement. If withdrawing a lot, you're in a higher tax bracket and paying more, then Roth wins. If withdrawing smaller amounts, you're in a lower tax bracket and paying less, 401k wins.

>>51203768
Kek

This is why the system is nearing its end. Zoomies don't just accept the clearly rigged system and see through it and actively try to not participate in it.
> What? My credit goes down just from you checking it?
> What do you mean I can't invest in what I want how I want? Accredited investor?
Based unraveling

I am 40 years old. I regret not investing into a 401k. OP i suggest you to not make the mistake I once did...

>>51203184
Just do it as a part of your overall savings plan, retard.

Protip: you won’t cuz you listened to fud

Beast mode: you don’t really want to be rich anyway

Nightmare mode: Ponzi scheme is your excuse to suck dick cuz deep down you like it