/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>51189453
you = a fucking namefag twinkie faggot that should go back to pleddit right fucking now

why not stick it to whitey by investing and becoming a shareholder then?

>>51189709

Because the stock market is rigged.

Once I become a shareholder, whitey and his friends will quietly exit the market and then buy back in after the crash he was tipped off about happens.

>>51189500
He's right, form a fucking argument.

>>51189739
>Because the stock market is rigged.
It's one of the main reasons why most of the young won't invest in the stock market.
Too much manipulation.

>>51189739
Actually, it's rigged against your own intellectual capabilities.

>>51189453
Kill yourself juden.

>>51189747
His arguments are shit and i'm tired of carrying civil discussions with people waging an attrition war instead of a good debate.

OP should go on, destroy capatalism so you can get an even worse shithole than before.

>government exists
>central bank exists
>legal tender laws exists
>'''capitalism'''

kill self

>>51189453
Working jobs they don't like, so they can buy shit they don't need.

>>51189453
You going to start some kind of revolution, fag?

>>51189764
In other words, it's biased against 4channers. Ableism is not a good look, redditor.

>>51190296
Repeal all laws protecting so-called "private property". Time to get the government out of our lives.

>>51189764
this

>>51190296
all those can exist in a capitalistic system brainlet. we already tried the kind of capitalism that you want and it gave birth to communism.

>>51191595
>against le 4channer
>you are le redditor
Updooted, i hope my contribution helps your disability.

>>51191626
>rent private contractors to kill your family and take possession of your house
nothing personnel kid

>>51191802
>rent private contractors
Can't exist without private property.

>>51189453
And what's your solution?
>inb4 Communism
Repeatedly tested and failed, falling victim to the same path to corruption every time far faster than any capitalist society
>But that's not REAL communism!
Idealized communism (non-hierarchical society with no private property) is quite literally impossible to implement efficiently and human beings have always responded far more favorably to the idea of individual ownership over the fruits of their labor.

>>51192128
>Repeatedly tested and failed
That was capitalism, big boy.

>quite literally impossible to implement efficiently
Like how airplanes are "impossible". Open your mind shitstick.

>>51192128
>individual ownership over the fruits of their labor
That's called socialism, smoothbrain.

>>51189453
>CAPITALISM IS GARBAGE!

>>51189453
>Capitalism = Garbage
Are ya loosing son?

>>51191919
>you can't raise your own army without private property
are you retarded?

>>51192293
How do you compensate the soldiers?

>>51192161
>That was capitalism, big boy.
Incorrect.
Citation: Which of the following countries still exist and haven't devolved into failed states/dissolved/implemented totalitarian measures to continue existing?
>The United States of America
>The Soviet Union
>North Korea
>China
Capitalist societies continue to exist and on average have a higher standard of living than any communist society.

>Like how airplanes are "impossible". Open your mind shitstick.
When you do not have hierarchy, you do not have a structure of command and you cannot properly organize.
Human beings are not inherently equal, some people are better suited for the role of leadership, but to lead one must be identified as the superior and others the subordinates, creating hierarchy.

>That's called socialism, smoothbrain.
No, socialism lies about the fruits of one's labor to seduce the gullible into supporting it.
If someone invests thousands into starting a business, the economic return of the business is inherently the fruits of their labor, provided those working for said business are compensated for the time given to it.
Unless you own a stake in said company, pay for the resources it uses or compensate those working for it, the fruit it bears is not yours.

>>51191746
how is government(a monopoly of ultimate decision making, violence, taxation(theft) compatible with capitalism?

how is a central bank and legal tender laws (monopoly on money production) compatible with capitalism?

>>51192314
with whatever can serve as a mean of exchange you dumb mf.

>>51192348
>Which of the following countries still exist
All states are capitalist by definition.

>When you do not have hierarchy, you do not have a structure of command and you cannot properly organize.
Sounds like you're arguing for a Soviet-style command economy.

>If someone invests thousands into starting a business, the economic return of the business is inherently the fruits of their labor
Imagine being this clueless.

>>51192404
>with whatever can serve as a mean of exchange you dumb mf.

>>51189453
>People are working shitty jobs that harm their physical and mental health.

It's your opinion and it's fine. What people do when labor and living conditions in their countries are bad is to emigrate. You're free to emigrate to a non-capitalist country and settle there. You can choose between Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Africa, North Korea, Laos and Vietnam. Good luck with your new life.

>>51192390
you need rules and the gov is supposed to enforce those rules. the government just applies the rules made by politicians that are elected by the people. politicians not really representing what people want is another problem.

NO MONEY
NO VAGINA

>>51192447
nice argument, fucktard

>>51189453
Ok, commie. Enjoy your surplus supplies all the previous commie revolutions brought on.

>>51192539
>money isn't property

>>51192508
>you need rules

indeed, we dont live in anarchy

>and the gov is supposed to enforce those rules.

but why do you believe the government is the one who needs to do this, and more importantly, why do you even think the government is even capable of doing this?

>the government just applies the rules made by politicians that are elected by the people.

why would you want to live in a place where your private property and civil liberties can be arbitrarily voted away from you?

>politicians not really representing what people want is another problem.

politicians EXISTING is the problem. why should an arbitrary selection of individuals have a monopoly of decision making over you and everyone else? why would you want this?

there are alternatives my friend

>>51192583
>but why do you believe the government is the one who needs to do this
by definition, any entity who "does this" is a government

>>51192425
>All states are capitalist by definition.
"That's not real communism!"
If you are arguing for the abolishment of the concept of a nation-state, then you are going to run up against reality in the implementation of your ideals.
Nation-states exist and they are an inevitability of our reality, this is because they are a concentration of power in force, and should any nation choose to become an anarchic society without a national system of governance, they will simply become a target for those that haven't.

>Sounds like you're arguing for a Soviet-style command economy.
No, excessive centralization in economic decisions is what leads to market inefficiency, hierarchy must exist within systems to create a structure to efficiently coordinate the use of resources in production but the things produced by those centers of production must be dictated by the market itself.
Correctly implemented hierarchy drastically improves the time of execution for work.
I should be clear, I am not advocating for excessive bureaucracy, just that having leadership above the workforce results in more efficient production.

>Imagine being this clueless.
That is the reality, time is quite literally money, we exchange our time as human beings for money through the exchange of labor, to then invest said money into the endeavor of creating new businesses is to invest one's time and to a further extent, one's labor.

>>51192580
what is the point you're trying to make, retard? we lived thousands of years without property laws, it resulted in wars between tribes/kingdoms/warlords

>>51192583
>your private property and civil liberties can be arbitrarily voted away from you?
they can't, there is a constitution that doesn't allow that to happen
>why should an arbitrary selection of individuals have a monopoly of decision making over you and everyone else? why would you want this?
this is just one kind of decision making. in switzerland people vote on every law being made.
>politicians EXISTING is the problem
absolutely not. society is made of different groups with divergent interests. democracy is a way to make all those group more or less peacefully cohabit within the same territory

test

>>51192780
>they can't

and yet they have, and are, every day

>in switzerland

the population is 99% ethnically homogenous and populated by white, indigenous europeans with high IQ's and genetically predisposed to low time preference behaviour, switzerland is also divided into roughly 26 'cantons', small regions which are relatively free from big government, relative to say the individual states in the USA

>democracy is a way to make all those group more or less peacefully cohabit within the same territory

democracy is nothing but a soft form of communism, good luck anon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPx1sC30hK4

>>51189453
Unless you fix the layer 1 aka the monetary system nothing will work

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

shrinkflation in jobs, quality of life, food and other goods are all of the layer 1 problem, capitalism, social democracy, fascism or even marxism won't work if the base layer of society is inflating so much that there are industrial bottlenecks meaning that wages grow faster than the supply of the goods the wages are supposed to buy like real estate

>>51192583
the problem is more with the perversion of democracy (corruption and other shenanigans) than democracy itself. imagine if the usa switched to a direct democracy system, i can argue it would be better than now. in any case, there is no society where you can have your way 100%. living with others require compromise

>>51189739
Yes stonks are rigged but not the way you think they are rigged, it's mostly about a system to increase money supply through proxy so rich faggots cash out at different times so this liquidity increase is less inflationary than hugo chavez dropping cash via planes.

>>51192940
>the population is 99% ethnically homogenous and populated by white, indigenous europeans with high IQ'
they didnt consider themselves homogenous at all during its creation. there were linguistic, religious and territory divides. switzerland built its constitution on respecting minorities. minorities at that time werent ethnic, but there was still a consensus culture in mind aimed to represent everybody in society.

>>51189739
Fuck off back to /lgbt/ you absolute hon.

Stage 1. buy trashcoin. Stage 2. lose everything. Stage 3. Cry a river on 4chan. don't be such an asshole. Use Yopi Network!

>Backed up by gold the yopi.network sustains very strong currency
>Micropayment services
>No team coins
>90 days lock = 66% APY

>>51192961
if the usa switched to a direct democracy system it would collapse in 72 hours maybe less.

The problem is indeed representation but not in the way you think, basically administrative law has created a two tier legal system.

If paypal freezes your account because they think you are a money launderer you are not able to legally defend yourself, if the police steals your work van through civil forfeiture you are not legally allowed to defend yourself.

Technically you are but you must pay for this legal defense.

So for bezos this will be 0.00000000001% of his networth and for the averag eperson it will be 50% hence why this two tier legal system on administrative law is a pain in the ass.

it's also behind the housing bubble since cash falls under administrative law while real estate under property laws.

>>51192940
if libertarians could make their own society they would inevitably have to deal with the same problems every society on earth had to deal with.
there clearly should be less big government in america though

>>51193295
and yet all those laws were initially created to solve a problem, but some of them create perverse and unintended effects too. paypal freezing your account because of aml is a problem. but mafias laundering money is also a problem. the reform of AML laws should be a public debate, what are the pros and cons, what do the numbers say. that's what democracy should be. instead, libertarians want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and remove all regulations. that's completely utopic too.

>>51193460
and mafias make most of their money selling drugs, profiting of the retarded antidrug laws made by old cunts in power. that's the main problem of democracy, the majority of people dont have the expertise or time to think about them, and you have to accept the decision of the majority, even if retarded. there is no perfect system

>>51192128
>And what's your solution?

Simple.

The government just has to step in and intervene in the markets.

Residential rents too high because asshole corporations want to do shit like keep apartments off the market to create artificial scarcity?

Have the government step in and get them to stop doing that by passing laws to fine corps who do that shit and make it an unprofitable practice.

It's not rocket science.

>>51193460
>>51193562
When this started it had a reason it would be retarded for roosvelt and us congress and senate to write air travel laws.

But when a new field is created like air travel, drug industry or crypto it should have a limit like 10 years under administrative law and after that moving on to default law and all new changes done by the politicians by vote.

The problem is that it all falls to some old boomer to decide if let's say btc is a commodity, a currency or property instead you have 10 agencies saying other shit, when in reality if there are no laws it's none of them and should not had any regulation until debated.

This is extended to more than crypto tough, the fact that the whole banking system is under administrative law is a total cancer, boomers launder money building 30 real estate rent appartments and nobody says shit but god forbid you cash crypto above a limit that goes lower as inflation increases every month, then you must prove you are not pablo escobar and pay for your own lawyer.

Administrative law is behind most of the problems going on in the so called "free world", in fact the whole energy crisis going on is due to administrative law which has made building shit in the west almost impossible.