/biz/ - Business & Finance

satanichia armpits

>>51139672
i have doubts the 23.8m will translate into buy pressure

>>51139681
stay on topic sirs

>>51139727
Well in pow you need the minimum buy pressure to keep the price since miners are forced to sell so we know the sell pressure of pow coins.

For eth is around 24m buy pressure per day to buy the daily emission and exchange liq is going down so in reality there is more than that for buy pressure.

The thing is that when you account that buy pressure and account for post merge emission you get to insane levels just with the previous existing buy pressure.

100k for eth seems even possible wich if you realize that the current price is 1500 usd seems isnane.

But it's not really as insane as it may sound by doing the math.

If emission goes to 300 per day that's a 50x decrease in emission that's not a triple halving it's 5,5 BTC halvings equivalent

from 15k to 7500 to 3750 to 1875 to 937 to 468

triple halvening my balls it's literally almost 6 halvings when you account that the remaining emission will lack the sell pressure from energy costs.

>>51139672
Priced in. Merge devalues the entire network as it becomes a government captured fiat system. Enjoy your bags sucker.

>>51139797
and to continue on this type of thinking from 15k per day to 300 per day you may have around 6 halvings but it's a 50x decrease in emission while buy pressure from pre halving pow era is still existing there.

You are talking at a minimum of 50x without anyone entering the market SO FUCKING 75K per eth without a single retard entering the market just with the existing buy pressure.

At this point when i look the math i am starting to think if they are going to fud pow this winter and bait every retard in a unregulated eth and make us absurdly rich until they regulate it around 2025, kind of like a bait for early adopters.

The numers are insane 75k per eth without new buying pressure, yet retards here keep saying 10k eoy

10k eoy is insane fud post merge you would only get 10k per eth if buying pressure collapsed massively which with the eu about to enter high inflation is never happening since fiat numbers will go bigger as crypto emission goes lower.

This shit is insane who is fuding using the 10k eoy meme?

>>51139828
I am aware of pos problems, but XMR and randomX can gain momentum if eth is captured.

Also it can empower the network as eth will be able to be used as collateral for dai by having literally 20x less inflation than USDC.

it literally created a deflationary collateral for the entirety of the defi market which is the only think that the market still lacks.

So it can go both ways 1 regulatory capture 2 defi get's a collateral unrelated to fiat ending tether and usdc supremacy.

both are bullish medium term, the first bearish long term for everything minus xmr

bump

>>51139672
no fucking way I’m buying BEFORE the merge in case ethereum encounters some critical bug and the merge fails and everyone loses their eth

best time to buy is a few days afterwards when the merge is found to be a success

>>51140048
There is so much shekels in ethereum contracts that they can always roll back

But you are right it's a risk

>>51139672
bump holy fuck is there nobody now?

you realize when bitcoin's supply halves the difficulty doesn't change, right? when ethereum's issuance changes, it's because mining costs drop to zero, immediately.

anybody expecting the same effect really hasn't thought this through at all.

>>51139672
You realize the only reason ETH is worth anything really, is because of mining?

>>51139797
bro are you blind? You didn't answer his argument at all, he thinks the buy pressure will not remain

several reasons why really
-current buy pressure due to pricing in of merge already, turns to sell after smallish pump
-people believe more in pow networks than Piece of Shit scams

Don't even reply, I know you're just parroting smarter people because you couldn't even grasp the argument and left a wall of text instead

>>51139672
Such a Hard copium… See u at $500… and that is optimistic… u just have no idea how things work… buying pressure, emissions, mixing it all together to cope so hard line u swallowed a truck load of blue pills… pathetic sheep

>>51140822
>Rich miner cartel paying electricity bills to "mine" and dump tokens provides value
Kek

>>51140957
>The sky is blue
Ehe

Take meds eth will be $250 next year lol

>>51140897
>>51140996
>>51140864
>>51140822
holy fuck the shills are here this is what i am talking this fuckers are fuding to buy more

>>51140796
this is a good argument and one i agree except it's not taking into consideration that it will be fucking deflationary the cost won't be to mine but to sell it, selling it will be a cost in future interests.

>>51140996
With an emission of 300 eth per day and a price of 250 usd eth daily inflation would be 75k eth.

Vitalik could demand proof of buttsex kyc photo before being allowed to transact and it would still pump.

>>51139672
>100k per eth if not more
that's a market cap of
12,028,641,700,000

twelve trillion, twenty-eight billion, six hundred forty-one million, seven hundred thousand

you must be retarted

>>51141185
gold has a marketcap of 11 trillion, also you miss the point, gold has a 2% yearly inflation

eth would have 0.6% inflation per year assuming 6 gwei gas fees which are historically low even in 2018 they were higher.

A marketcap of 12 trillion is entirely possible once you realize the sell pressure is literally going to be 4x lower than gold miners selling pressure.

People seem to forget that previous halvings marketcap of btc went up insanely, this is literally 6 halvings in one(not sure were the triple halvening meme came from the math literally shows 6 halvings in one)

And on top of that the remaining emission lacks sell pressure from energy costs

>>51141219
>gold has a marketcap of 11 trillion
you proved my point. now stfu and get off my basket weaver forum.

this is the guy you're rooting for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVYn44kVM0

I remember being like you OP in january 2018 then reality hit. This shit is worthless and is going to be obliterated when we're in a full global economic downswing. 50% of f500 employers plan on reducing their staff. People without jobs will not give a fuck about some dumb internet token with zero usecase. Sorry.

Selling mined ETH and buying Rvn and also mining some neoxa
not supporting esg wef Centralized shitcoins

>>51141246
money skelly is cringe as fuck but if you don't realize he is just a frontman you are retarded.

And i say this as a almost a decade long btc maxi the fact is that eth is now the backbone of the crypto economy due to banking demonetization of small exchanges .

This can go two ways 1_Regulatory capture in 3 or 5 years after validator centralization.
2_The lower ether inflation makes it the base layer collateral for the crypto ecosystem.

Both are extreme results if you think 1 will happen then btc is fucked as well and only xmr will be safe long term.

>>51141330
The coming crisis is inflationary not deflationary, you are falling for fud as for 2018 it literally fell due to btc bottlenecking and rates going up all 2017 to 2018 once interest rates peaked in late 2018 it flatlined.

Everyone seems to think powell will raise rates like they did in the 80s but that's literally impossible the usa defaults at 12% interest rates.(sooner than that if you account taxes collected will collapse in a recession).

Also all the gibs biden is doing are to keep the dxy down because if they let it go up the euro literally collapses.

>>51139672
everyone and their mom in crypto is talking about reduced emissions

no one talking about the fear that comes with having large eth positions and having it locked for what, a year? More?

Remember the last time that happened with JEWEL? the price of eth could plummet and every self styled crypto bro will have their balls in a vice

>>51141059
Fag… just kys already… u scum is wasting water and air… u probably think xrp will reach $30k too… retarded retard buttlicker

>>51139672
>>to maintain a price of 1700 eth needs 23.8 million usd per day
This is retarded and you know it.

>>51141511
xrp has literally 0 usecases.

>>51141525
if the daily emission of pow coins is not bought liquidity increases and price has to go down.

That's how the entire pow difficulty algorithm system work anon did you arrived to biz 3 days ago?

If the daily emission of the pow coins is not being bought the price would go down there is a reason why btc reacts so much to usd liquidity around the world.

For eth the market is buying that per day, for btc it's even more, suprisingly xmr seems to have the lowest daily emission at the moment but it also lacks users relative to let's say LTC.

>>51141219
>marketcap of 12 trillion is entirely possible once you realize the sell pressure is literally going to be 4x lower than gold miners selling pressure.
Sell pressure will remain, ETH is a cuck and will follow bitking no matter what.
Next month will be a bloodbath and it is hilariously timed

>>51141525
2 ETH a minute x 60 x24 is like 2880 ETH a day @ (x) 1700 = 4,896,000
Did i fuck that up or is OP on crack?

>>51140864
You don't get it. For the price to be in equilibrium while accounting for the sell pressure from miners, there has to be an equal amount of buy pressure. If there wasn't, eth would go to 0, same as btc or any other coin where miners are dumping mines coins. Any change in price is due to a difference in buy/sell pressure.

Post Satania lewds if you want to be taken seriously

>>51141589
Yeah you pulled 2 eth per minute out of your ass. Current mining rewards are about 14k eth/day

Bump

>>51141679
Shit looked at kawpow block time
22,596,923
Hmm

>>51139672
ETH will dump post-merge so whales can accumulate

>>51139672
>the price will go up because i did the math!
this board is like a human centipede of stupidity.
fucking love it!

>>51141589
>>51141810
>https://etherscan.io/chart/blocks

13k to 15k mined per day and 1k burn per day

post merge accounting for 1k burn you are talking about 600 eth entering per day on the market from stakers but those are not forced to sell due to electric costs so it's probably less.

It's literally around 6 btc halvings, even the bullish propaganda seems to fud once you check the numbers the ammount of shills on this post trying to get anons into not checking this themselves is showing

>>51139846
You forget that selling pressure increases with price, and buying pressure decreases. The 28M / day might not be equally interested in $10k eth, and at $10k everyone and their cats will be taking profits, dwarfing sell pressure from miners.

>>51141883
>>/biz/thread/S1214767#p1217266

>>51141608
No you don’t get it. The sell pressure from miners is just a drop in the ocean of sell pressure from holders. Compare the amount of btc or eth mined daily to the volume transacted. Even discounting wash trades, miners only form a small portion of the sell pressure.

>>51141892
You are correct but in the case of eth there won't be miners anymore, the sell pressure will probably start going up until the interest on staking reaches lower level than banks.

I just find the whole think very interesting it's like a btc halving but on steroids and everyone is so affraid it's literally not priced in.

>>51141933
I respectfully disagree miners are literally the only ones forced to sell due to energy costs all other sell pressure is due to market dynamics like forex movements causing aftershocks in crypto.

For examle xmr while lacking halvings has now half and a little more the emission it did 2 years ago and it has literally 2x the price.

Little compared to the whole marke yet miners earning half moved the price by the same amount.

Sure the market moves way more money but it's a logical fact that if the sell pressure of the only group forced to dump is not bought the price will go down hence why the halvings pump the price in btc.

On the case of eth we are talking about literally 6 halvings in one it would be deluded to think it won't pump the price.

>>51139672
>Satania tranny is a moron
many such cases!

>>51141981
You are only talking about price but you have to take liquidity into account. Imagine there’s a set of buyers who want to spend $28M per day on eth. Currently, they get X amount of eth per day, but then there is a halving so price doubles and they get x/2 eth per day. Great, you think, this is just what you have been waittfor with your big bag, so now you want to sell your $400M of eth that used to be just $200M.
But there is still just $28M of buying pressure. Basically, what happens is that the price has doubled, but you can only sell at half the rate without tanking the price. Bottom line, the amount of $ you can get per day by selling eth stays the same - your eth stash will last twice as long, and is /eventually/ worth twice as much as before the halving, but the number of dollars you can take out per day is still constrained by the amount of dollars going in per day (liquidity).

>>51142123
Show a logical flaw on this thesis everyone fuding is using the same argument about btc halvings they did in 2015 and 2019 minus the "miners will stop mining shit".

It's literally the same crap if buying pressure remains the same but emission goes down 50x the price can only go up.

I get that nubiz has been castrated and demoralized but the fud arguments are very retarded.

>>51140796
Please elaborate

>>51140957
Yes, that's how PoW works from an economic perspective.

>>51141589
Op is on crack because he thinks there is 23 million new dollars entering ether everyday, day after day.
This is retarded, its not happening.
Market making does not work like that, its literally not even close to that simplistic.
It also assumes miners sell it all, miners are selling anywhere near market price etc etc...its wrong on every single level of analysis.

>>51142146
>price can only go up.
Luna vibes.

>>51142141
To make it super clear: 1 million eth holders could extract $28 per day each from ethereum, regardless of price. If $28 return per day for holding one millionth of all eth doesn’t seem attractive to you, then you also see why your math isn’t convincing anyone.

>>51140822
Wrong. ETH has value because it is an extremely secure globally accessible permission-less ledger with smart contracts.

>>51142141
Finally a non retarded anon giving a good critic of the whole thesis.

You are correct yet halvings have proven to increase liqudiity for btc in the past due to the lower inflation.

And stablecoin liqudiity either usdc or tether has grown massively during bullruns and both use us treasuries as collateral.

And on the post merge eth, eth it'self would become a insanely good collateral due to good inflation so even DAI would be able to be backed on eth instead of it using usdc as a large part of it's collateral.

While i agree a lot of defi is a disgrace against crypto the base layer having low inflation can really be a catalyst for the whole defi meme to finally take off, the whole problem seems to be that methheads have been using outside collateral for their defi memes.

ETH having so low inflation will turn it into a great collateral probably reducing sell pressure into the "physical fiat" market even more.

But yours is a good point unlike the other retards fuding

>>51142227
> because it is an extremely secure globally accessible permission-less ledger with smart contracts.

Only that various other protocols exist which are better. Again, ETH has value because of its massive mining ecosystem.

>>51142230
These are also good points you make but they go well beyond your initial supply/demand (really stock to flow) model.

>>51142175
No, luna was literally the opposite the token supply was going up to back the stablecoin, it was retarded game theory.

ETH post merge game theory is insanely good it literally inflates during periods of lack of usage creating liquidity and deflates during high usage period stimulating saving instead of usage.

Polar opposite of luna game theory.

>>51142173
That's 8 billions usd per year which is exactly 4% of it's current marketcap.

It's literally nothing in the great scheme of things and since eth is a pow coin the only way you have price equilibrium is for the market to absorb those 8 billion usd that considering eth settles 6 trillion in payments per year is not exactly as much as it seems.

This is what makes this merge event so different had this been a pos token upgrade lowering inflation this would be a meme.

But eth is a pow token so those 8 billion per year have to be absorbed by the market as it's the case in all pow coins.

So that usage buying those 8 billion per year will still be here after the merge but with way lower inflation, the numbers are so big that 10k per eth seems absurd fud once you look at the details.

>>51142246
No, eth has power because it has most stablecoins running above it at many times the defi market on top of eth had more value than eth itself that shows how undervalued it's been for a long time.

The thing is that eth has 2.5 more inflation than btc, it has even more inflation than dogecoin.

But post merge it will have lower inflation than monero but unlike monero that has very low usage eth will have all it's defi on top still there.

>>51142269
>>51142226
i think the problem in eth game theory will show later on probably around 2025-2026, once interest on staking gains an equilibrium that makes boomer banking seem a better option.

After that you could see stakers cashing out to other networks like btc with halvings that offer better long term gains unless defi became so active due to eth becoming a base layer collateral that now eth becomes deflationary permanently in a feedback loop, kind of like fusion in a star.

But if that does not happens this is still fixable by adding halvings to the staking ammount so instead of 32 eth you halve every 4 years and then you need 16 eth and then 8 eth.

So even the worse case scenario can be fixed with some clever game theory.

Im not sure really ethereum and the smart contract fags are very polarizing they have 10 retarded ideas and then one 200 iq idea.

They also seem to have in some cases very retarded concept regarding negative feedback loops so you end with shit like luna.

On the other side they did apply good feedback loops to eth like burning coins due to usage.

So this can either go incredibly great or incredibly terrible.

holy moly mucho texto

>>51142226
To make things even more clear: without inflationary rewards, returns come from the dollars paid into the system. If $28M per day is coming in, that’s what holders can take out. So if currently $28M /day is coming in, that works out to about $.23 per day in return per ether, $85 per year, so with Eth is at $1,700 that’s about 5% apr. With eth at $3,400 that’s about 2.5% apr, $6,800 eth it’s 1.25% apr, by $50k eth it’s practically zero. The passive returns are what are supposed to make ethereum an attractive hold.
The point with ethereum is staking returns, but for those to improve what is needed isn’t halvings that increase price per token, but actually increased buy pressure. Increase the $28M to $56M and you have doubled the APR. Double the price and you have halved the APR. What’s needed isn’t deflationary economics, but honest to god reasons to increase demand of the service in dollars. The merge might help with that, if it makes the product a lot better and more useful for people, but it also mightn’t, and there’s no clean supply/demand formula that will tell us how it goes.

>>51142449
Yea i think adding a halving to the staking minimum would be good long term to fix the game theory you point of interest going down, the halving volatility would take in and out stakers and attract capital long term.

btw the 24-28m a day will probably go up for reasons you pointed like usage or interest seeking.

The problem in eth game theory is when apr goes to shit which could take time but from now to then it would have massive price pressure to higher prices in my view, i may be wrong but it's what i think will happen.

>>51142449
….actually, 5% APR at $1,700 eth is not that bad…maybe I’ll have to grab a bag while the going is good.

>>51142246
>Only that various other protocols exist which are better
Not according to the market. ETH rapes every "ETH killer" chain in value, usage, TVL, and dev resources.

>words words words

>>51142611
retard retard retard

>>51142611
>stop having a detailed discussion. I can only think in apus and wojaks

>>51139672

So OP. What is the make it stack and sui stack now?

>>51142788
oldfags think it's 32 eth but if the math i did and methead game theory work as planned 32 eth will be worth more than 2015 btc suicide stacks ever did.

At least until interest on staking reaches an equilibrium

>>51140048
This is the retareded fud. They succeeded the merge on testnet

>>51142507
> halving stake requirements
Might be a good idea but I don’t think it helps with this. If price goes up but APR goes down, it won’t be an attractive buy, the problem isn’t too high staking requirements (which will be mitigated with staking pools anyway).
The real, fundamental question for eth is how to attract greater revenue. Everything else is really just fiddling with parameters to make your bags look more valuable while remaining unable to translate that greater value into more cash dollars in your account.
For Bitcoin, the revenue is supposed to cover security costs, not give yields, so it’s an entirely different kettle of fish. Ethereum has been a weird mix of pretending to have miner economics but always really going for yield economics in the long run. Ethereum tokenomics after the merge will be more honest, where price discovery should target the price that gives the APR the market is after. This may be a boon to price, but it could also mean that we finally have enough transparency to see clearly that, say, a price of $1,700 is appropriate for the APR yielded by current revenue streams.

>>51142827
> At least until interest on staking reaches an equilibrium
But OP I also did math and that works out to $1,700 being correctly priced for Eth. We’re already in equilibrium, which does make sense since the rest of the market is more than capable of doing the same math I just did.

>>51142948
>But OP I also did math and that works out to $1,700 being correctly priced for Eth. We’re already in equilibrium, which does make sense since the rest of the market is more than capable of doing the same math I just did.

How did you reach that conclusion?

>>51142970
Look up in the thread. But I calculated that with $28M revenue per day, a price of $1,700 gives almost exactly 5% APR, which is what I believe is what the market is targeting given Ethereum’s risk profile.
Double the price and you halve the APR, which should impact and reduce the buy pressure down from $28M and lower the price until it’s back at about 5% APR.
If what I say is how it plays out, you could expect the Eth price to become mostly a function of revenue, i.e. the price will never double again sustainably without revenue also doubling.

>>51143054
Of course, there will be speculation on revenue growth and buyers will say “if I start getting 5% apr in a year, that’s pretty good”, so price may double on mere speculation on renue increase. But, as I said, that’s not sustainable without revenue eventually catching up.

>>51142970
I guess I would sum up your basic mistake as: you would have a point with the 6x halving if Ethereum were going to stay a miner economy, but since it’s moving to PoS we’re also going to an APR economy, where the price of Ethereum will become a function of network revenue rather than have the tight relationship to mining/stock-to-flow economics that you discuss.

>>51139672
ETH realistically is under $50
All your mental gymnastics and mumbo jumbo are just gonna be more funny in a month.

>>51142533
> ETH rapes every "ETH killer" chain in value, usage, TVL, and dev resources.

After the mining ecosystem moves elsewhere, ETH is done. Last straw.

>>51143054
>>51143115
>>51143179
But you are ignoring that eth is a base layer coin, people also use it for transactions it's locked as collateral not just for staking but for defi and people simply cold storage it.

Not all coins bought with those 28m will go to staking, hell probably not even 20% will go to staking, since the current buying pressure is not for staking but to pay gas fees for the most part.

In fact i wonder how much eth exchanges use to pay gas fees.

Hell if i use the data i found about burning during the last 365 days 2.4m eth were burned when paying for transaction.

Post merge we would be talking about 600k eth per year so it would have a -1.5 deflation rate.

The interesting think on finding a value to this shit is that as you point it's easily to value it for it's usage as a network.

But that still is not giving a value to it's usage as a currency, as simply cold storage, as collateral.

I think you are just valuing it assuming that the 28m daily minimum pow buying for price equilibrium is part of the revenue but i am not sure if it fits.

Also the APR may go to 0 but if the network is deflationary the price can go up with 0 apr tough slower.

And you are not accounting existing capital also paying fees not just daily injections.

The reason i used daily capital is because since it's moving from pow to pos we know that pow has a minimum daily capital buying due to the equilibrium price in pow coins.

So the pow daily issuance being bought is the base minimum you know it's going to still be there the day after pos is on.

>>51143115
But it's going to be deflationary tough, holding may give more gains than staking with lower risk like having coins frozen for some time.

>>51139672
They always fud the most religiously with the good stuff. They even utilized /pol/ retards for their funding with the WEF le globalism coin. Which I think is a bad move because it just signals to me harder how fake it is.

>>51143179
i been thinking about this a lot because with pow miners won't sell below the mining cost and difficulty going up and down eventually gives an equilibrium price.

on eth there won't be a minimum price because 0 electric costs, however it's going to be deflationary so the cost of selling today means you lose potential gains tomorrow.

Unlike pow coins this is very ponziesque so to speak because it leads to centralization long term unlike pow that leads to the opposite.

However eth spent most of it's life distributing coins on pow which means unlike most PoS coins it will have an unique coin distribution that will probably be impossible to ever recreate by any other PoS coin.

let's say that 600 coins are given to stakers per day once you account the burning, at a price of 1700 usd that's 1m usd inflation per day.

Compared to now 24-28m

The anti pos theory would be that they would dump them at a lower price since they had 0 cost in their creation unlike pow coins but there is a cost in selling a low inflation / deflationary asset hence why boomers keep hoarding real estate despite property taxes going up.

Sure the rent gains may be shit relative to the cost but the price going up causes hoarding.

Nothing short of Peter Schiff becoming emperor of mankind will stop this process with central banks larping inflation down and the world getting older and having less workers per capita.

>>51143242
Where do this fuders come from?

This is worse than 2019 anti btc fud, at 50 usd per eth with an emissino of 600 eth per day the daily inflation would be 30k usd per day, biz could buy entire years of supply.

>>51143245
The problem is that on a network like eth the cartel owning defi decides what's the real chain, you can fork to super eth with randomX pow and add halvings to lower inflation.

But if at the end of the day tether, dai, circle and most of defi decides your chain is fake and gay then your chain is fake and gay because you end with a clone that lacks all the contracts above.

Hence why most btc maxis wisely attacked smart contracts on btc it removes network neutrality.

>schizo tranny animu pedo poster thinks it's some high IQ thing.
Listen here faggot. Eth 2.0 is literally the nail in the coffin for eth. It centralizes the network and doesn't solve gas fees. Crypto is pretty well known in the software engineering space now, and so are it's limitations. No real application will ever run on ETH entirely, top kek. You acting like this is the end all be all reminds me of AOL bagholders. ETH is a piece of shit okay? Sure number might go up, because even shit like dogecoin had it's day. But ETH from a technological is basically useless in it's current form. Only degens use it.

>>51143381
I come from 2014. /biz/ when there was one lambo with a photoshoped tag meme image thread per day and lots of people larping as cpa elites and occasioanl low tier broker getting lost trying to post a few grains of info to total noobs.
back when the board was a joke and even boards like /v/ were making more sense.
To a /v/irgin to not be able to play games and just talk about them was ridiculous.
But that was /biz/, lots of kids talking about finance but no one doing anything in the real fiannce world.

That changed since and /biz/ launched way past other boards when the first millionaires and non lapring players appeared. But its falling back into shit of a different type.

You can find my posts with a trip back in 2016 saying the same line.
ETH is a realistically under $50 coin.

>>51143285
> The reason i used daily capital is because since it's moving from pow to pos we know that pow has a minimum daily capital buying due to the equilibrium price in pow coins
I know, this part I agree is correct. Thanks to this we know it’s $28M coming in daily, and we are both onboard with the simplified assumption that roughly the same buy pressure will continue into PoS at least initially.
The thing is though, that once Eth is PoS, it will not continue to be possible to value it on miner economics - they were useful for us to determine current revenues, but cannot be a basis for predicting the future. Ethereum will be judged as all other yield generating assets, on APR vs risk with a little bit of speculation on top. Bottom line, it will compete with other assets in the same risk class, and only win when it offers better APR.
> But that still is not giving a value to it's usage as a currency, as simply cold storage, as collateral
Sadly, I don’t. Ethereum never was nor could be Bitcoin. With PoS this will finally be made completely true and obvious to anyone. What you suggest is no different from the definitely real use of my stocks as collateral being priced in. Yes, it will happen, because it is real. No, it won’t make a big dent in price because it’s already true of all the assets Eth will now be competing with as PoS. And it’s no longer even remotely true in the same way as it is for Bitcoin. Bitcoin will now continue to compete with other non-yielding assets, i.e. gold, while ethereum will compete with all stocks on a risk/revenue basis. (Remember all speculation in stocks, even on growth stocks, is on the eventual returns via future massive expected revenue).
So bottom line is Eth will be as valuable as the gas revenue it pulls in, and it won’t be able to hind behind anything more complex anymore.

>>51143460
Give me your math were eth is valued at 50$ aka a inflation of 30k usd per day, while circle a regulated institution has 52 billion on top.

The current anti eth fud is a lot like the late 2018-2019 anti btc, bsv fud of creg will destroy btc before halving.

It's literally whales self fuding their investment to buy more.

OP so your thesis is that
>1. currently there is a buying pressure of $23.8 million usd per day
>2. most of that goes to miners selling their coins as they get mining rewards.
>3. when the merge happens, miners will not be dumping eth on the market, so that $23M buying pressure will be distributed to normal people selling on markets
> ??? Assumption that people will continue buying $23M worth of ETH per day regardless of price going up.
> Price hits $75,000/ETH, and people are still buying $23M worth of ETH per day, even at this price.

So your whole thesis hinges on the assumption that people will continue buying ETH even if it skyrockets in price?

>>51143362
> on eth there won't be a minimum price because 0 electric costs, however it's going to be deflationary so the cost of selling today means you lose potential gains tomorrow.
yes, but it will also be true that the only reason to expect potential gains tomorrow is if you expect gas fee revenues to go up. If anything, the opposite of what you expect might happen. While before miners had to recoup electricity, they were also rewarded in what everyone saw as a growth asset, making it rational to keep as much as they could after covering costs. With Eth turning into a yield asset, well, it’s like when rich people park their assets in divvie stocks, they don’t reinvest the divvies, they cash them out and live on them. It makes sense, because growth is expected to be slow, so you do this type of investment because you want a constant revenue stream.
So we may see a transition to tokenomics attracting the kinds of stake on eth there won't be a minimum price because 0 electric costs, however it's going to be deflationary so the cost of selling today means you lose potential gains tomorrow.
rs that continually sell all their rewards, making it again so that the general sell pressure even more closely matches rewards, i.e. revenues, making the coupling between revenue and price even tighter.

>>51143516
The math is similar to the nft math. Or the metaverse VR math.
When normalfags are cold next winter and their stacks of cash are melting on basics like electric bills and food and inflation. When theres no carrot of mining anymore you will see the math.
It will be a handfull of gigantic players holding all influence and last word and they dont fuck over each other. Like crow that doesnt eat other crows eyes.

>>51143504
As someone that used to be a btc maxi and still i am 60% of a btc maxi since i look at this from a game theory pov and btc obviously wins as a solid choice.

I think your view of pow vs pos is correct, i just disagree that eth can be viewed only for it's APR.

if it would have it's current inflation i would agree with you 100% but the fact that the inflation going down will make it deflationary does change this a lot.

But i do see a lot of feedback loops there, i think it could cause a massive bubble and then without the pow daily inflation forced to sell the miners have a massive collapse in price.

But we are talking about a 3 year bubble tier bigger than any bubble btc ever had.

1_ETH moves to PoS
2_Infflation goes down
3_Burn rate makes it deflationary
4_Price goes up to find equilibrium
5_APR goes to 0
6_Still deflationary
7_Price goes up to insane levels
8_Without PoW miner dump there is nothing to stop this
9_Eventually the trend reverses
10_Price goes down
11_Apr goes up as people unstake
12_Coins have base value unlike miners that lower hashrate and lower difficulty on this situation
13_Feedback loop continues

The only way i see this stoping is with something like validator minimum coins halving like 32 eth minimum to get a validator node halving to 16 every few years.

This is just my view of the thing but the "bubble" that i see is nothing like btc 2017 but even bigger almost insane big.

It could be avoided with current game theory in pos if it has constant -2% deflation but otherwise it's hard to say.

>>51143578
1_Yes
2_Yes in all pow coins price equilibrium is achieved by the miner dump being bought otherwise price goes down.
3_No the 23m is not there just to buy for charity it's the current price equilibrium the market found, people buying those 23m daily are doing to pay gas fees for the network usage and a little for speculation.
Every pow coin has this equilibrium price even oldfags were aware of this

>>/biz/thread/S1214767#p1217266

> ??? Assumption that people will continue buying $23M worth of ETH per day regardless of price going up.

You miss the point those 23m are the equilibrium price the one the market is buying daily for usage not charity.

>> Price hits $75,000/ETH, and people are still buying $23M worth of ETH per day, even at this price.

As other anon pointed you also need the buying pressure so old holders can sell.

There is another equilibrium level to just buying miner dump.

I just used 75k as an example because usually 10k is given by metheads as a goal but that's very conservative with such reducion in emission in fact it's probably even fud lmfao.

>dont have enough for muh 32 eth
>if it went to 100k lmfao methead daydream IRS militia would be on my ass and take a gorillion percent of it along with exchange joo fee to sell the piece of digital worthless shit anyways
>fuckall decentralization anyways, guess we'll all just run a school project on metafags failure VR device in future instead of owning our own computers

A literal piece of crap worthless pile of shit coin. Atleast I could atomic swap my btc to xmr. Why in the living hell would I ever need a stupidass "coin" for monkey pictures I can copy paste? Literal worthless invention supported by latte sipping niggerfaggots thinking they are holding linux. Oh wait that was always free and stayed open source for decades. Fucking meth niggers and their skeleton dictator that would die eating a cheeseburger.

>>51143592
>When normalfags are cold next winter and their stacks of cash are melting on basics like electric bills and food and inflation. When theres no carrot of mining anymore you will see the math.

Why do you assume that events like the shit going on in europe won't end in a wage spiral.

I don't get why most people imagine economic crisis as 1929 deflation, the current crisis is the opposite of 1929 it's inflationary.

A wage spiral will only pump assets with low supply unless there is state failure like venezuela.

>>51141059
theoretically deflationary (if they don't change the parameters) eventually, not now, and not during the bear market when block demand is very low.

>>51142153
you can't compare what ethereum's issuance is doing with bitcoin halvings. in bitcoin profits half, but in ethereum the energy usage will drop to zero, and excluding the 32 eth stake the costs effectively drop to zero too, but issuance will not, it will still be positive.

if anything, ignoring fee burning whose effects we wont see until the bull market heats up again, ethereum's cost-to-produce vs issuance is going down, not up as it does in bitcoin halvings. the only potential non-speculative effect can come from buyer demand, but bitcoin's halvings never showed any real sign of this effect existing.

>>51143578
> So your whole thesis hinges on the assumption that people will continue buying ETH even if it skyrockets in price
Yes, and this mistake is possible to make because he is forgetting that Eth will be priced as a yield asset now, where if price goes up while revenue stays the same, APR goes down, making the purchase less attractive.
For BTC this kind of thinking actually works, because parking money in a value store is attractive at essentially any price that can be expected to hold, so demand being price insensitive makes sense. For a yield asset, not so much. That’s the mistake, and OP is not alone in making this mistake right now, half of /biz/ has Ethereum’s future PoS economics confused with Bitcoin’s PoW value store economics, and it will lead to tears if people believe OP.

>>51143686
i was once total maxi and i get why we attack metheads but for 10 retarded ideas they have they seem to have 1 great idea.

NFTs are retarded yes but that's not much different of how metheads started stablecoins.

NFTs can go from monkey pics to tokenize real estate or even stonks, it's all a regulatory problem at the moment but sooner or later some nation will take advantage of this market.

As for descentralization you are right but lately there seems to be an awakening in metheads that governments are not on their side, we will see how this turn out either centralization or eth becoming a super collateral due to inflation both paths are possible

>>51143715
and this entire thread is full of complete nonsense from people who clearly have no idea about market making, otc, mining futures, etc.

>>51143612
> but the fact that the inflation going down will make it deflationary does change this a lot
This is no different from companies doing stock buybacks. It will be evaluated for it’s impact on APR, which will be some, but not revolutionary.

>>51143715
>theoretically deflationary (if they don't change the parameters) eventually, not now, and not during the bear market when block demand is very low.

No, if you account the last 365 days the burn would be deflationary, with the last 30 days burn it would only have an emission of 273 eth per day, that's lower than monero emission (which is ultra low)

>>51143694
Just because numbers go up doesnt mean that $50 will buy you the same amount of chicken it did back in 2019.
Read the Black Obelisk by Erich Maria Remarque.
Lkie in weimar there are tards that bought a house in 2019 at $500K that are selling it for 700K and imagining they made 200K profit.
Reality is not what you imagine.

>>51143753
Dude, everyone knows that stuff, but it’s derivative to the fundamentals discussed here, catch up.

>tranime thread
>pretend knows math
>shilling pedocoin
thanks for the top signal just sold all the 4.20 eth I had left I was holding for meme reasons
never trusted that skelly kike anyway

>>51143715
>you can't compare what ethereum's issuance is doing with bitcoin halvings. in bitcoin profits half, but in ethereum the energy usage will drop to zero, and excluding the 32 eth stake the costs effectively drop to zero too, but issuance will not, it will still be positive.

Finally a third anon that get's what we are talking about here.

>but issuance will not, it will still be positive.

at current historic low usage due to low usd liquidity around the world we are talking about 273 eth per day.

it's even pretty low by most crypto standards only xmr has such low inflation but xmr is pow tough.

>and excluding the 32 eth stake the costs effectively drop to zero too

correct yet the inflation of those coins with 0 costs will also be ridiculously low.

>if anything, ignoring fee burning whose effects we wont see until the bull market heats up again

probably right

>the only potential non-speculative effect can come from buyer demand, but bitcoin's halvings never showed any real sign of this effect existing.

yes but btc is a transactional coin in itself of the current 23m fiat buying the miner dump a significant ammount must be to pay gas fees and it won't disappear yet instead of biding for 15k new eth they will be biding for 273 new eth.

Even if the fiat buying to pay gas fee is 1/4 of those 23m it would still pump.

>>51143753
please give your opinion on the only non retarded thread on biz in the last year seriously help to make biz a better place.

>>51143821
>Lkie in weimar there are tards that bought a house in 2019 at $500K that are selling it for 700K and imagining they made 200K profit.
Reality is not what you imagine.

Where the hell do you think you are we are all aware of that on biz, hence why we hedge to have an advantage over normalfags.

We may be degens but at least we understand that staying on fiat is just letting entropy gangrape you without lube.

We are here exactly to make gains above that inflation, the only milennials that ever made it they did it on places like biz frontrunning normies.

However if you think that 2019 to 2021 is a wage spiral you are not paying atention, europe is seeing 700% rises in energy, food will soon follow due to transportation and storage costs, wages will have to double or triple before 2024 meanwhile btc will still be mined at the same rate and eth merge will reduce inflation.

If you don't understand what this means for the price of crypto and believe this will actually reduce demand you have not given a minute of attention to what happened to crypto demand on places like venezuela or argentina .

>>51143787
the last 365 days puts us right into the tail end of the bull market. the next 365 will be a dustbowl. (>>51143871) emission is low, yes, but any positive emission at all is almost entirely net profit because proof of stake has as close to zero costs as possible. they're all levied onto the devs making the beacon chain clients.

>>51143843
i dont have time to read a thread where one dude has 37 posts and another 17, sorry.

>>51143871
i can also tell you there is no 23m inflow buying mined coins on ethereum. it's highly likely many are not even liquidating the electricity costs alone right now, with the market conditions.

>>51143612
> 5_APR goes to 0
> 6_Still deflationary
> 7_Price goes up to insane levels
This is where your narrative fails. It won’t happen. It’s counting on the market to make a colossal blunder, but it won’t fail to understand the meaning of 0 APR.
Sorry anon, I hope you don’t feel I’m just being contradictory and out to rain on your parade. I think you bring up an important discussion and it’s great that someone defends your position vigorously. I do think you’re wrong, but I don’t think you’re an idiot and I don’t want to discourage you from this discussion or taking your thesis through a thorough tumble, just don’t get married to it if you somewhere realize you’re wrong - keep coming up with new ideas and keep sharing them with /biz/. Sooner or later your DD will discover the outsized opportunity, I just really don’t think this is it.
> but there’s still the chance of a bubble
I guess anything can happen in crypto but my main point is this is mainly a fundamentals discussion, and the fundamentals for a radical price increase don’t seem there. And personally I doubt that the market is in any shape to get drawn into a tulip bubble over “Eth 2.0 with yield!” that doesn’t give any yield.

>>51140957
>rich pos cartel sitting on massive bags of money doing absolutely nothing verifies network “because”

>>51143958
Sure that is understandable but then don’t draw conclusions about us not knowing stuff you care about because we already filled 50 posts without even going in to them (because they are not strictly relevant to the discussion, which you would have known if you had read). Simply put, don’t be ignorant and rude.

>>51144080
i scanned though and found enough references to bitcoin to realize you're all looking at this the wrong way. the only metric that has ever mattered has been cost-to-mine, and in ethereum that cost goes literally to zero. uncharted territory.

the market related stuff about coins printed per day is a nice talking point but bitcoin halvings never saw any direct market result from those drops, and bitcoin would have seen a stronger result than ethereum given its cost-to-mine is >0. therefore i put little to no weight into this aspect outside of speculative interest in that number itself.

>>51143994
23m is not that much in the great scheme of things desu specially on a coin like eth that has contracts like usdc moving billions, what makes you think the market is not buying 23m usd per day now?

all the data about exchange liquidity i see is bullish like this

https://cryptoquant.com/asset/eth/chart/exchange-flows/exchange-reserve?exchange=all_exchange&window=DAY&sma=0&ema=0&priceScale=log&metricScale=linear&chartStyle=line

2018-2019 had exchange liquidity going up for all coins, i am just not seeing this now and considering that powell is removing usd liquidity i don't think this is bearish at all could be 100 times worse.

>>51143958
i hope you are wrong about the next 365 days but you could be right, most "oldfags" in the finance industry see powell peaking rates in february at most.

But europe could fuck everything up given what's going on in ukraine.

>>51144042
btw i just find this interesting i am not defending my position to the point i get angry kek, it's just that unlike btc halvings this indeed is harder to value.

> It’s counting on the market to make a colossal blunder, but it won’t fail to understand the meaning of 0 APR.

Desu the market was buying btc on december 2017 with 50 usd fees, central bankers did more gibs late 2021 despite inflation going up thinking inflation was a meme.

I would not give as much wisdom to the players in the economy as you think they have.

Also if apr goes to 0 eventually it will go back up but markets operate in cycles but i don't see how the pos algo would revert such cycle unlike pow that does it with dificulty.

But it's just a theory tough.

You seem pretty smart what would you long for the next 2 years assuming you are even longing.

>>51144204
as pure buying pressure it is a lot, nearly 3/4 a billion a year. you're telling me you think 3/4 a billion is flowing into ethereum every month? it should be clear that this isn't happening, or at the very least inflows are elastic and won't stay the same when issuance drops, or we'd see bitcoin's halvings result in quick movements upwards, which has never happened. in fact i don't ever remember seeing it happening in any "halving" event across any major coin in my many years in this market.

don't confuse liquidity for inflows, liquidity is many, many orders of magnitude higher than in/out flows. market making is basically the entire crypto market these days.

rates don't matter, we're in a bear market, and not just crypto this time.

It's because retards want to speak without doing the math anon. ETH and Polygon are going to be the undisputed kings of the blockchain.

>>51144268
>as pure buying pressure it is a lot, nearly 3/4 a billion a year. you're telling me you think 3/4 a billion is flowing into ethereum every month? it should be clear that this isn't happening, or at the very least inflows are elastic and won't stay the same when issuance drops, or we'd see bitcoin's halvings result in quick movements upwards, which has never happened. in fact i don't ever remember seeing it happening in any "halving" event across any major coin in my many years in this market.

it's not really a lot when btc collapsed early this year from 40k to 33k it was because the LUNATIC retard sold 80k BTC that was almost 2 billion in usd dumped in just a few hours hence the disaster it caused with it's aftershocks in defi.

But looking at the big picture it was not a lot for crypto, it was almost the same that mt gox would dump that terrorized us for years and the market absorbed it well had it not impacted defi and fucked all defi collaterals btc would still be above 30k and eth above 2.5k

So ethereum getting 3/4 of a billion per month it's not a lot it's 4% of the marketcap per year inflating.

> or at the very least inflows are elastic and won't stay the same when issuance drops, or we'd see bitcoin's halvings result in quick movements upwards, which has never happened. in fact i don't ever remember seeing it happening in any "halving" event across any major coin in my many years in this market.

Now this is on the level we are talking here, there is a clear difference between a pow and pos "halving".

BTC or ltc or any other halving was literally nothing on the date it happened but only later once liqudiity started to go down on exchanges it was felt.

>>51144268
>don't confuse liquidity for inflows, liquidity is many, many orders of magnitude higher than in/out flows. market making is basically the entire crypto market these days.

BTW Don't you see metheads being able to create their own liqudity?If eth inflation on a bear market goes down to 273 eth a day it would become an excellent collateral for things like DAI and Defi in general.

It's easy to see it as a dog eating it's tail but if the defi meme lacks something it's a good collateral disconnected from the boomer markets.

ETH absurdly low inflation could trigger that (or as you say could cause a dump due to 0 mining cost).
Not sure what way it will go you are talking about such low inflation levels even with current usage that i am not sure anymore.

How do you see the market the next 3 years in general?

>>51144161
That’s where the discussion started.

>>51145076
it's basically the whole debate here on this thread we can all agree it's a change on the pricing mechanism but it's a very polarizing concept.

>>51139828
I can't imagine that kind of future. It'd better not come. By all means, users ought to maintain full control over their assets, identities and rights

>>51142227
Big plus on this, especially on the security part. Makes sense why open source L1 privacy smart contract built on Ethereum are considered to have a native security characteristic of them

Miners don't sell instantly, they hold and expect prices to soar higher. When miners capitulate is when we get a bottom

Something with no intinsic value and no revenue will create a proof of work of itself and generate an APY yield.

This is pure schizo tier shit at this point.

>>51139882
>So it can go both ways 1 regulatory capture 2 defi get's a collateral unrelated to fiat ending tether and usdc supremacy.
I really wonder what regulations will mean for privacy projects? I believe it'll amplify their essence as there might be a legal requirement for privacy if such regulations are exercised.

>>51145461
You just highlighted what ORE network is all big on

>>51139672
>>51145555

Maybe you can explain this to me.

>>51146408
Read the entire thread we debated about what you posted.

>>51139672
bump

>>51142408
>After that you could see stakers cashing out to other networks like btc with halvings that offer better long term gains
yes, but the more stakers that pull out means those remaining start to gain a higher % return, so there will be some risk/reward premium priced in eventually and hover around there for nearly forever

>>51139672
>>51139797
>>51140085
>>51141887
>>51141911
>>51146505
THAT WOMAN'S FACE IS VERY UGLY.

>>51146700
yes but the first time this game theory plays out it will proably cause a cascade downwards in price(we are talking around 2025), because nobody will stake to gain 5% on something going down in price 20%

Maybe a halving on the minimum needed to stake could fix this but you would need something besides interest long term to keep speculators speculating.

Pow literally has an anti cascade liquidation system by always having the miner dump creating a fiat inflow.

On PoS i can see a spread appearing between the coin price and the capacity of the system to cash out those coins.

All of this is just theories and speculation tough interesting thread in general tough.

>>51143285
>I think you are just valuing it assuming that the 28m daily minimum pow buying for price equilibrium is part of the revenue but i am not sure if it fits.
there's a good vid on bankless about that "betting the fund on the merge" that pretty well perfectly explains how mining being removed pretty much takes the "expenses" of the network to near zero and from there ends up in a massive profit (and with multiple times more economic security than PoW)

>>51146817
yes but the remaining emission has 0 mining cost unlike pow were miners reduce emission once the price dumps below equilibrium.

The entire thread is about anti pos and pow retards fighting with two or three anons debating this seriously.

The whole point is that using pow stock to flow ration to price eth may not be correct or it may be.

Hard to say desu there are serveral changes in the game theory of pos relative to pow.

>>51143285
trying to find it
here's a great twitter account to follow in the meantime
https://twitter.com/SalomonCrypto/status/1529500432661463041

https://twitter.com/SalomonCrypto/status/1538936332835180544

>>51143285
here it is:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ethereum-merge-priced

>>51143404
>Hence why most btc maxis wisely attacked smart contracts on btc it removes network neutrality.
i hadn't thought of that, but that makes an excellent point
imagine if one smart contract platform supported big blocks

>>51146883
>>51146901
will follow and read, btw this thread was interesting because a few oldfags also came out of the shadows and you can see it's 2019 level of conversations.

The whole point that many of us are not sure is if the remaining 300-1000 eth daily emission will have more sell pressure than let's say 800 daily btc pressure.

Because even if it's a 90% reduction in inflation it's also coins mined for literally free.

I am of the opinion it will pump regardless because it's very low inflation but otherwise it would be a serious problem on eth game theory.

Other anons disagree on this, interesting thread.

>>51146947
>imagine if one smart contract platform supported big blocks

Now you see the why of this thread, this can go incredible well or bad and it's a shitshow of a debate for this reason.

>>51146467
It would be nice to get a summary of some kind. I read the thread starter and it's just making a bunch of assumptions. Assuming post merge miner selling pressure disappears, assuming demand stays high, assuming validators won't sell. Then sure, maybe prices go up. But what makes you think your assumptions will come to pass?

Posting anime garbage shit over the age of 20 shows how fucking infantile you are and probably remain for the rest of your life. This of course affects your social aspects which I'm pretty sure as the contrarian you are just go and say you don't care, but within you is a lonely boy crying because you will be a forever alone fucked person.
I don't fucking care how autistic you might be about shitcoin math or any STEM subjects, you will remain an insuffarable obnoxious faggot for the rest of your life just because you're unable to mature into a man and leave cartoons behind.

>>51143362
>however it's going to be deflationary so the cost of selling today means you lose potential gains tomorrow.
math-wise yes but people are always going to want to sell to buy houses or cars or whatever kind of other shit
a small amount of deflation is one most people even hardly would realize (just like the average joe is completely okay with the money in his bank worth 2% less each year, since it's so slow that week to week it's hardly noticed)

>>51147019
Thanks man will mature tomorrow and stop shitposting, i am also going to go wagecucking for fiat currency were they give you a raise of a few percent per year while rents go up 50% per year.

>>51143612
>5_APR goes to 0
still don't see how this would come about
like you said ETH can be collateral in defi and such, so the returns on defi would divert some that would go into staking for yield to go into defi
and if the % rate drops too low for most, a lot of people will queue up to leave as validators
and each validator that is self-removed the % return for each goes up slightly, until a new equilibrium is reached
but the emissions only reach a lower bottom %, and likely the number of validators possible will be capped, and going below that % won't happen
plus, not counting miner tips, and not counting that recent MEVboost-shit

>>51147015
it's an entire debate of pro pow, and anti pos anons, it's a shitshow for good reasons read if you want but there is no short version, long term the game theory is different and the pricing mechanism is also different.

>>51139672
Thanks for making this thread. I'm a proud staker on Rocket Pool. It's only a matter of months until most of the retards on /biz/ are priced out of owning just 1 ETH.

>>51144042
>it won’t fail to understand the meaning of 0 APR.
where do people get "0% APR" from?
there's a bottom % of staking reward payouts, not including miner tips, and not including MEVboost, as well as there being competition for that same ETH to be locked in defi as collateral
why would people put in ETH staking getting 3% when defi can yield 4% or more and have no exit-queue liquidity issues along with it

>>51146800
>because nobody will stake to gain 5% on something going down in price 20%
who knows. people were putting shit into that beacon chain contract in december 2020 not even knowing how long it'd be locked up for
and given that there's a queue to even get *out* of validating, there'd be a steady and slow pressure to exit, not much more different than something like miner forced-selling is today

>>51146800
>All of this is just theories and speculation tough interesting thread in general tough.
agreed
it's so rare but so nice to find a non-shit thread on /biz/ these days
even if in the end we don't all agree, we can still get insights from different perspectives

>>51146866
>Hard to say desu there are serveral changes in the game theory of pos relative to pow.
possibly, but it's not like PoS is this entirely 100% untested in the short term thing, given that the majority of the top 20 coins already are PoS that seem to be surviving well enough
last i checked of the top 20, only btc, doge, and ltc were the only top remaining PoW coins in there, so it's something the market obviously values on PoS
but i agree that things like bitcoin and other pure-store-of-values make sense for PoW, while things like smart contract platforms changing to PoS work well too
especially considering their aim for 1-block finality, which is an impossibility to do on nakamoto consensus

>>51146970
>you can see it's 2019 level of conversations.
been here since 2015
potcoin threads back then got me interested in btc and eth, and i started buying eth by the 100's in 2016 and i still hold most of them

>>51146970
>it's also coins mined for literally free.
coins "mined for free", but requiring the same capital input (in terms of money having to go in to obtain, either electric + asic's, or the capital to buy the 32 ETH needed)
and with PoW, your holdings are always constantly being diluted by new issuance, and price facing headwinds due to miners being required to sell
so without any diluting pressure, and eth being 0% emissions, just holding ETH becomes more lower risk, since you're not slowly being eaten away by new emissions, so just holding massive amounts of ETH in liquid form, ready to sell or dump as the price goes 3x, is fesible
so those "coins for free" can still be staked back in to try and get more returns on, but why they're "coins for free" i don't know on what issue that would be

I think ETH is trash and it will go to 0$.

SIMPLE PROOF: if you have a 70% premine coin l, where those 70% go to ETH foundation and the early buyers, they will earn 70% of all daily money. The other 30% would be for the common people and that's if you keep your coins staked. It just makes no sense economically. The whole algorithm is flawed, you didn't even read the basics, if I start explaining here it would take me 5 more long posts to prove my point.

Switch to XMR while you still can, otherwise you deserve getting rekt by jew skelly.

TL DR - switch to XMR or die literally and financially

Everyone is gonna stake their eth and apr is gonna be worse than your bank account. Gonna be funny to watch everyone who put their hopes and dreams on 32 eth generational wealth. Even funnier if there is ever an exploit

>>51147598

i mean 32 eth is basically like 50k. that's not really an entire life of 'hopes and dreams'. people who bought on the last drop at 1k even less...

>>51139672
Here’s some incredibly math if OP sucks 6 gorillion dicks per day while I am 69ing his mother, he equals one giant loser faggot. Link $1k eoy

all of these halvening calculations don't factor in the reality that eth is a dead casino chain with a vanishingly small number of users pvping each other over an increasingly small pot of money. It's like the end stages of a fortnite match with a handful of hardcore zoomers glitching around with rocket launchers and fort pieces trying to win a gold medal made out of cadbury chocolate while the rest of the world literally doesn't care and doesn't give a single fuck.

factor in 10 halvenings if you want, but 0*2^10 is still 0.