/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>51061873

What kind of a question is this? The wages for "normal" (what does normal mean) engineers will go up as soon as there is a scarcity for them. Obviously when you are on the fucking INTERNET where INTERNET NATIVES live, more people are shooting to go into COMPUTER SCIENCE.

IRL there are still plenty of people who don't dick around online all day and get real work done. We even have a name for them: Mexicans.

>>51061998
Normal means engineers that actually do shit, not software trannies.

And this is a new phenomenon. This guy should be out starting a family, having friends, doing hobbies, instead he’s trying to make a career change because being a SENIOR electrical engineer is no longer enough to own property in the US, that’s the issue. This guy shouldn’t be spending his free time learning “SQL” lmfao.

>>51061873
He’s delusional. Most software devs make around $90k ~ $150k depending on experience. Tech companies have higher TC but these jobs are very competitive. GFs mom was a database architect project manager and was making ~$130k only a couple swe she hired made more than that.

>>51062079
It absolutely is enough to own property anywhere outside of the Bay Area, and that's the problem. The entire fucking internet nowadays revolves around silicon valley circlejerks but people don't realize it so they see chucklefucks bitching and moaning about how they're just barely scraping by on $250K TC and how they need to make $450K if they ever want to retire and think that that's just the world we live in now because they're terminally online coddled babies instead of understanding the reality that San Francisco is just fucked.

>>51061873
Big tech is funded by the pentagon. So it's all based on the military elites agenda for the population.

All my compsci friends who were jerking off about how much money they made at their faang internships now can't find jobs, the compsci bubble is already starting to collapse. While I was in university the number of CS grads more than doubled in 4 years.

>>51061998
Don’t forgot the nice intermission period when scarcity first begins where corporations refuse to believe that this situation is happening to them, refuse to increase pay, and push the work that should be divided between several people on to the few that stay because they won’t hire anyone else for what they’re asking.

>>51061873
he's a process controls engineering so he's likely chained to some shithole factory run by boomers stuck in a 1980s mindset, where he's required to be physically on site 5 days a week, 40 hours a week minimum. probably with unpaid overtime and overnight call if anything big fucks up. it's no wonder that people are abandoning traditional careers for a career that treats its workers like human beings with work from home and reasonable workloads.

Everything is fucked there are no jobs that pay anything.

>>51061873
I have an IT degree with 0 experience and landed my SQL DBA job making $60k 2 years ago. Currently making $70k. Raises would have been better the past 2 years if I had put more effort in. But for dicking around 90% of the time its not too bad.

Actually going to focus and automate things this year and hope to get a decent raise next time.

>>51061873
Im considering this - im a UK doc and have become pretty disillusioned as I earn less than I did when i worked in a call centre at 17. I'm 30 but 100% seriously beginning to do some looking into the prospects of just learning some coding.

>>51061873
I know people in their late 20s having obscene salaries in software sales, twice that, and not even in the US.
It's just quality offer and demand.

>>51061873
>so that he can afford a home.
The post says nothing about that.

>>51062448
There's stuff that pays if you have a college degree or a trade skill. Beyond that the economy is all based on online shopping now, so you have to work in a warehouse or delivering packages to get a decent wage as a highschool grad.

>>51062079
>And this is a new phenomenon. This guy should be out starting a family, having friends, doing hobbies, instead he’s trying to make a career change because being a SENIOR electrical engineer is no longer enough to own property in the US, that’s the issue. This guy shouldn’t be spending his free time learning “SQL” lmfao.

This makes me so sad. I see this everywhere people who actually add value with their work not being able to survive. I see stressed out parents because they need to have two full-time jobs to live in a decent neighbourhood. I see friends who decide to only have one kid. I see people working 60 hours a week and constant being on standby for a 1.5 median income. Yes we have all these gadgets and better homes, but the things that really matters (family, love and kids) is missing.

>>51061873
>making six figures at 29 years old
>can't afford a home
Sounds like an avocado toast kind of problem to me, tbqh.

>>51062491
damn just noticed I have a TURROK ID

>>51062491
>trades
STOP
STOP PUSHING THIS ABSOLUTE MEME

>>51061873
This is the peak of the internet and programming as a whole.
We are going to see a rapid collapse of society, and programmers are going to rope because they have no useful physical skills
>i hope

>>51062079
Where does he say he can't afford a home and that's why he's doing it?

>>51062515
it's not a meme. If you can build or repair houses you can make bank.

>>51062520
This.

>>51062520
>>51062533
>>51062356
I think it's more about being house poor than not being able to afford a house in and of itself.

>>51062556
I think its more about shitty demoralization threads where lying faggot OPs are just baiting emotional responses.

>>51062515
>meme
Keep pumping that IT bubble, so i can keep slicing optical fibers for you autistic trannies.

t.radie

>>51062612
you realize once the bubble pops you too will be out of a job.

tradies really are retarded.

>>51062681
No because brain damaged zoomers needs their constant 100-1000MBit ultrafast internet connection to play fortnite.

>>51062681
They don't call it the great reset for nothing. Everyone is going to be fucked big time.

>>51062508
based

>>51061873
SQL isn't even programming

>>51062798
true this... It is just a way of getting data in and out of a database.

>>51062762
>Everyone is going to be fucked big time.
Uh that doesn't sound too great to me.

>>51061998
Based post.
These pale skinned neets need to go outside once in awhile.

I know a guy in his early 20s - he gets up in the morning and does like 10, 15 minutes worth of work on his laptop to get the ball rolling.
Then he lays around in his underwear all morning and early afternoon and plays the banjo while his bots run interference for him online; answering texts and emails and pretending to be doing something.
He'll eventually get up, eat lunch, get dressed, and go for a hike. Every once in a while he might have to field an actual call.
Towards the end of the workday he'll sit down and do another 15 or 20 minutes of work - whatever it is the bots were supposed to be doing.
This guy does less than an hour of actual work every day and he is making fucking BANK.
I'm happy for him but I can't help but wonder how many other guys are out there gaming the system like he is, and how sustainable it actually is.

>>51063357
they're sustainable indefinitely. white collar jobs (aside from professional services wageslavery) have never demanded 40 or more hours of real production per week. before wfh people would just piss away time on extended lunch breaks, bathroom breaks, pointless meetings, pretending to be busy, etc. at my old job, pre-covid, i read the unabridged version of the count of monte cristo because i had literally nothing to do. today i do nothing at home because i'm perm wfh.

white collar jobs are basically an IQ test. if you're smart, you learn the ropes of the job and you have the freedom to fuck off. if you're dumb, you choose to wageslave in person and probably have some nigger boomer boss micromanaging the shit out of you in real time.

>>51062079
>>51061873
lol seething blue collar wage cuck

You will never make six figures
you will never work from home
you will always go into the office

>>51062912
Going to be pretty awesome because you all deserve it. :)

>>51061873
Remember back in the 90s and 00s when nerds were saying "one day nerds will own the world" and everyone thought they were just coping because they were getting bullied? Well...

>>51061873
another demoralization thread. go outside.

>>51061873
>>51062079
>being a SENIOR electrical engineer is no longer enough to own property in the US
you replied to your own question. that's exactly the problem: everyone wants to make as much money as possible, as soon as possible. engineers jump to the trendy thing because it makes them more money, companies don't want to pay more because they expect higher profits and workers and infrastructure are seen as a waste of money, landlords charge more because they can, realtors push prices higher because they can.
software is what pays the most right now, so people will jump into it from other careers.

>>51062612
>Keep pumping that IT bubble, so i can keep slicing optical fibers for you autistic trannies.
you know you are giving someone more work and therefore making them more necessary?

>>51063573

I'm 100% convinced this is why ever culture bullies geeks out of some sort of instinct. The moment you let the spergs start making decisions everything gets worse.

>>51061873
all engineers should know how to code. it makes math and modeling more efficient. engineering however should not be REPLACE with programming, programming is just an additional skill.

t. engineer and self taught programmer

junior (0-3/4 yoe) programming is over saturated

>work at warehouse
>Everything always breaking down cause lack of physical world smart people like op tweet
>Laugh at jeets who are in physical maintenance and running around always monkeying with shit

I welcome lack of engineers. Get more down time to chill at wagie warehouse and watch management fags panic over machines breaking down all the fucking time and occasional power outages as they beg their stupid computer systems to save their asses.

>>51061873
A lot of people want to do this, but very few of them manage to pull it off. The type of autopilot database monkey job that the redditor in the OP wants usually requires a college degree with 3+ years of relevant experience as hard requirements to filter people out. You can maybe find a job at a startup with the experience he has, but if you work at a startup you'll have to wageslave.

>>51064321
100% correct. That no one else in this thread said it first tells you how underage and clueless /biz/ is. OP said the guy was an engineer, and I promise you that these morons thought he's a guy that wanders around the floor of a factory out of Victorian England with a giant wrench.

If the dude was a controls specialist with an EE degree and an interest in database work, chances are he works in an office figuring out how to "future proof" the companies process logic controllers to accept as many pumps/screens/probes as the engineers want to throw on whatever system they build there.

Any engineers in this thread, from fresh BS grad to 10 year, PE, PhD veteran owes it to themselves to learn the basics of some sort of automation. This can mean getting good at macros in Excel to make generating charts from imported CSVs faster, learning python to pull data, just something that makes the job faster. Then share it with the office and let them know you can make other stuff to. Tool making is what separates us from the monkeys, so act like a human and make some work tools. Also consider learning experimental design and basic analysis of variance. You'll be able to reduce the number of tests you have to run by orders of magnitude if you do, and people will come to you to solve their problems. Then when you leave, you get to parlay being the "stats guy" or the "automation guy" into a higher salary.

>>51062681
You followed history, r-tard. Trades work has always done well during down turns, since everyone needs something fixed, no one is going to let their pipes just burst and ignore it, or their furnace, or their fucking electrical sparking.

>>51066377
Tis the only way. However, whenever I see an engineer moving from some more "physical medium" to software, their code is absolutely shit. You are correct, though, that making tools to make the work faster and just as precise is an exceptional skill and guarantees a fast track (if you know how to politic) into a much better position with the company.

Makes me glad I studied math. it would only take me a few weeks of practice if I wanted to pivot between SWE, IT or traditional engineer like civil or something. Too bad I fried my brain cells and I can’t sit still for more than 35 minutes staring at a fucking book.

>>51067168
>this is cope. Start by increasing your focus time by 5 minutes every day. You can do it. Believe it or not I beat a crippling porn and video addiction at the age of 30 and turned my life around, and still acheiving small victories daily. Consequence of this is that I naturally quit image boards, reddit and youtube.

>>51061873
This is what you get when luke warm temp IQs in a trade that dropped out in Grade 9 make $200k a year. Inflation is a bitch and the tears of normies will be so much saltier as it gets worse. Feel sorry for people that dont have the ability to generate wealth from several sources of income.

>>51061873
EE here making 85k
I see people with no education learn some sql scripting and get a 100-120k+ offers with 0 experience
I will be doing the same in the coming months

>>51067107
What’s wrong with their code?

>>51062448
For you.

>>51061873
>How did this happen?

Easy, work from home. People want to move to the remote beach towns and mountain towns and do WFH jobs.

If I was just getting out of collage and looking at what career to go into I would avoid any programming jobs. People with skills that need to be in person are going to be in high demand. WFH programming applicants are going to be a dim a dozen in 5 to 10 years. WFH jobs in general are going to start become saturated.

>>51063911
hes a trade fag - he doesn't understand critical thinking (cause and effect)

>>51062079
>>51061873
> Stupid fucking retard thinks contolling automation at boring manufacturing plants surrounded by LITERAL boomers is something a 29 year old high IQ man wants to do for the rest of his life....

KYS retard. Why the fuck wouldn't a high IQ individual want to build shit with his mind. Yes SQL is a meme but he needs to get his foot in the door anyway he can and once there he can do whatever and make millions. God nothing I hate more than eternal wagies like you. Comp Sci is THE ONLY TRUE WAY TO ESCAPE WAGE KEKORY IN THE 21ST CENTURY. THERE IS NO OTHER INDUSTRY WHERE YOU CAN MAKE MILLIONS IN UNDER 5 YEARS. I"M NOT TALKING ABOUT BEING A WAGIE AT FAANG I MEAN BUILDING SOMETHING ON YOUR FUCKING OWN BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE FUFKCING SKILLS TO UNLIKE BEING A RETARDED BOOMER CONTROLLING THE HVAC CONTROLS FOR A CARDBOARD BOX FACTORY YOU ABSOLUTE REATRD!

>>51061873
As a trainee in sql he'll earn way less than in his current job, but as a senior will make the same amount tho

>>51062471
get a new job, never bank on raises. they know they can get away with paying you what they are currently paying you, why would they pay you more? there is no incentive for them. go look for a new company to work for.

Biggest tip in this job economy- specialize in something. Hard technical skill, business field skills, trade skills, etc.

>>51061998
Fpbp thank you. Then whites complain about immigrants.

>>51062296
lol stfu and visit blind.com or look up FAANG total comp (not just salary) most are making well over 200k

isn't the average us income like 35k? how does everyone else survive?

>>51068931
Government assistance, right?

>this thread again
god damn every board is the same

>>51068301
THIS

>learn SQL
What does this guy mean? I just started my new job and it requires SQL. It took me like 2 weeks max to pick it up and I had never used it before.

>>51062446
>he's a process controls engineering so he's likely chained to some shithole factory run by boomers stuck in a 1980s mindset

My idea of heaven.

Just learn Flutter

>>51070822
Same here- I input random SQL statements and can work my way through a python script but I don’t call myself a “programmer” and I only make 60k a year in the US. Am I doing it wrong?

>>51070858
Come work in the lumber and plywood industry. We badly need controls engineers. The pay is meh, the hours are shit, and you'll get screamed at by good old boys all day.

>>51063911
And?

>>51061873
if you can write an english sentence you can write SQL

>>51062079

> because being a SENIOR electrical engineer is no longer enough to own property in the US, that’s the issue.

The problem here isn't that non-software jobs aren't lucrative enough, it's that the cost of living is fucking obscene and has been artificially inflated by bad economic and monetary policy.

>>51062448

The programming meme is real though.

I have a bachelor's degree in English. A year or two after college I decided I didn't like being broke. So I learned programming in my spare time.

Now I make $176k base salary plus $40k/yr in ISOs at a late-stage startup valued at over $5 billion.

I have absolutely zero formal education in computer science, I don't even have a bootcamp or online course certificate.

software is easier and better paying because of the profit margins involved in software and lower barrier to entry

you're more willing to take a younger and less experienced person to build a webapp than a critical car component. there's no barrier of entry

>>51062437
This is unironically part of the cycle though
>company piles work left by others onto less and less employees
>those employees become invaluable to the company
>leverage their knowledge for better pay
>time passes
>company wants to expand
>hires competants and retards alike in workforce expansion at slightly less than SME, but still more than before pay rates
>average pay has gone up
>cycle repeats itself
This can take place over decades if it has to. Point is, it's all a part of a healthy cycle. Assuming the braindrain does happen, this will effectively be winter for hard engineering sectors, and summer for SWE. Keep in mind that this can occur at a micro level, entirely constrained within an individual company as well-it doesn't have to be sector wide.

>>51061873
If this dudes a process controls engineer, why the fuck hasnt he moved to the midwest to work for thermofisher or bayer on the pharma lines.
Easy 200k a year and you’re essentially babysitting automated pneumatic legos.
>t. Process enginerd in the pharma manufacturing ind.

>>51061873
My mate is a talented mechanical engineer and works incredibly hard. Right now my job entails little more than simple web development, I earn about 5x more than him while working 2-3 hours a day

>>51064007
>this is why ever culture bullies geeks out of some sort of instinct
Did you have you a stroke?

>>51071614
basically this, it's business model with no overhead other than staff essentially. So the majority of resources go towards staffing, which leads to higher pay.

Other companies have to manage all kinds of capital expenditure, rent, running costs that just don't exist in software. Not to mention the scalability of software is so much larger than traditional businesses.

whats the best way to pivot from civil engineering project mgr to software/tech ?

>>civil eng
>>pivot to proj mgr
>>???
>>FANG 300k

>>51071652
>why doesnt this guy uproot his life and abandon his family and friends and move to some frigid, landlocked midwestern shithole when he can make the same amount of money (if not more) while working less hours with a wfh tech job

>>51061998
>The wages for "normal" (what does normal mean) engineers will go up as soon as there is a scarcity for them.
I don't know how it is elsewhere, but when I was working as a mechanical engineer they were constantly struggling to retain employees, which created a self perpetuating cycle where more workload gets dumped on the remaining engineers until they get burnt out and quit. Basically there were a set of boomers who were there for 40 years and soon to retire, and a bunch of young people that had insanely high turnover rates. I dont know what those companies are going to do when the boomers retire, since they can't keep younger engineers on staff long enough to even learn the ins and outs of the trade.

>>51061873
>I've never seen anything like this
that's a reddit post, don't worry, if you go back you'll get more used to it- and maybe stop coming here because it'll be too jarring, good luck!

>>51062494
>Starting a family
Most women are shit and not worth starting a family with.

>>51075006
This

>>51062421
Same thing happened at mine for mech eng
And chemical eng
And mathematics

>>51061998
>get real work done
t. doesnt understand liability

>>51061998
Mexicans are the laziest and worst workers there are. If you want someone who will fuck up a job and then not care and not tell anyone Mexicans are perfect.

>>51061873
The problem is the incetive structures of the banking system siphon out so much capital via interest and financializing assets and education that life becomes so unaffordable that people can't just be happy and live their lives and pursue a career. Companies no longer take care of employees like they used to, health care is dangerously expensive and has us all on the verge of bankruptcy, homes literally chew up a hundred thousand dollars worth of work for literal nothing, many people are plagued with student loans so they are constantly oversaturating the job market looking for more pay.
This country is literal hell for the plebs DESPITE being the supposed wealthiest nation the world has ever seen. Any time your life gets better, the system fucks it up. If you become too wealthy then you can literally stop working and live off of $200,000 invested in the stock market. They can't have that because their ownership claims DEMAND that you work and toil until 65. The system is set up to extract wealth and pretend that we are all invited to the party, when the truth is in order to make it sustainable the system has to destroy your wealth via inflation and taxes. Two steps forward, one step back.
The problem is always, and has always been with the ownership of capital. Excess resources should be going to infrastructure, investing into the nation etc rather than building private 1000ft yachts. Tax the wealth 99% so we don;t have any more hyper liberal billionaires trying to destroy society and we can all live much happier, more fulfilling lives.

>>51068301
thats easier said than done. you need to already have an established autist tier knowledge in any of those three examples. by the time i figuratively become an accordion repair specialist, polka will be dead.

>>51061873
This is what happens when you dilute a market. When everyone is a coder, no one is.

>>51077175
I think it is a bubble. Similar to the housing market collapse leaving millions of people jobless who were formerly employed in that massive sector of the economy. Something similar will likely happen to coders/computer workers but to a far lesser extent. The ownership class/elite want to saturate the market and drive down those wages and the criteria to meet that saturation point will absolutely be met in the next several decades. You will still make good money, but they want to get it under control.

>>51062421
Less than 1% of those grads can actually code on a basic level. Less than 10% of that 1% can become senior level.

>>51073421
He only missed one letter.

>>51061998
>We even have a name for them: Mexicans.
I lol'd and woke up the misses