/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50928527
One might say a final solution.

>>>/pol/
stopped reading at ignore

>>50928542

>>50928527
You're right OP, if there's anyone that is well known for future planning, its the government

>>50928527
Georgist Land Value Tax. also half the problem is zoning, ordinance, conditions laws and access to permits.

>>50928527
its not a flaw it is a feature
capitalism needs homeless and a precariat
who will make your iphones for cheap if there is no underclass?
how can landlords profit if housing is cheap and accessible?

the bugs of capitalism are actually features

>>50928527
You're all trying to save the world with political consensus when you should be tricking these losers into doing everything you want for you using money.
Don't like pollution? Make people believe they'll lose all their money if they don't fix it.
Easy.
We don't need to be right when we have money. We don't even need popular opinion.

>>50928527

You're a fucking retard if you think we have free markets. Free markets ended in the early 1900s when governments felt like they needed to take over the economy. When central banks were created that was the end of the free market.

>>50928527
don't worry soon we'll provide a pod for your people to live in

Problem? Throw money at it.
No money? trick people into giving you some.
Better yet, trick people into throwing money at your problem.

>>50928709
this
Everybody in this thread is a worthless communist and your fucking predecessors ruined fucking capitalism by having no fucking clue what they were talking about but opening their mouths to complain en masse anyways.

>>50928527
The free market solves this problem. Commies get the rope. Sage.

stop confusing government corruption with capitalism

>>50928709
central banks are privately owned

Capitalism doesn't have a plan, this isn't a board for discussing marxism, fuck off and kill yourself I'm not giving you money for free.

>>50928916

>>50928933
it is look it up
fed is privately owned which control the central banks
this is known in libertarian circles too, hence end the fed meme

cuckservetives think they are government entities but they are not

>>50928527
capitalism is a jewish scam. thousands of competing firms wasting time and resources and setting up jewish walled gardens with (((intellectual property))) and (((non-compete))) scamlaws. meanwhile the based chinks steal with impunity and benefit as a people.

>>50928527
>overuse and pollution of resources would not be taken into account if the government was not around
Have you ever heard the phrase "priced in"? Planning for the future happens when the free market speculates on it. More competition on speculation is more likely to speculate accurately on average (Wisdom of the Crowd), so free market is even better than government intervention in this case.

Are you meming or you're retarded for real and really believe that the "homeless" problem is that they dont have a house?

>>50928527
>>50929064

Its a false premise. Of course "capitalism" plans for the future. Capital literally is defined as goods used to produce more goods in the future. The concept of capitalism is that individuals control capital, rather than have capital controlled through central planning. The advantage is that one, it aligns with individual liberty, and two utilizes specialization / distribution of knowledge, rather than have one entity attempt to efficiently control everything. Which is impossible. This is a separate concept of free markets, which is that the prices of services are determined by supply and demand.

The "problem" with capitalism and the environment is one of game theory, that polluting the shit out of the environment is not the polluter's problem. Individuals are not incentivized to care about pollution even though as a whole it negatively affects everyone. The solution is to create incentives for individuals to care about pollution, such as passing laws banning polluting and making individuals liable when they pollute other people's property, this could include water and air. This was you can have capitalism but individuals are incentivized not to pollute just like they don't kill people or steal property or do anything else that impedes on other's property rights.

The solution is not to abandon the entire concept of individual liberty and institute and all powerful government to confiscate all private property and attempt to efficiently allocate every part of the entire economy. Because that is fucking retarded and impossible for one entity to even know how to do that, let alone do it without becoming corrupted.

>>50929046
Based.

Get rid of immigrants, house tax, and central banking and pic rel never happens

Capitalism is fucking retarded. It should be replaced with socialism or communism.

>>50928527
but this quarter's profits!

>>50930569
those are capitalist too dumbass

>>50930569
>It should be replaced with socialism or communism.
go back to /r/antiwork faggot

>>50930636
No
>>50930664
Make me fgt. Imagine not wanting to seize the means of production and killing people in mass. Low t. posters all around.

>>50930670

They are capitalist. Capitalism literally just means "whoever controls the capital (means of production) decides how it is used." It's a nonsense term with no meaning. It's why the tankies always call failed attempts at socialism "State Capitalism"; the state takes control of the means of production and then decides how it is used.

Even if it was possible to democratically decide every single use of capital within a society the people within that society would be incentivized to repeat the same short term benefit seeking behavior attributed to "Capitalism". That's because even perfectly Democratic Socialism is still capitalism, and is prone to people making long-term damaging choices for their own personal benefit. The public controls the capital and the public tends not to be the best stewards of things whenever they can vote to increase their share of the benefit.

>>50930557
>get rid of immigrants
No that’s racist

>Get rid of house tax
No, we need to find schools and fill potholes

>Get rid of federal reserve
Never heard of it

>>50928527
a suburban flight to cities because of a sudden loss of a resource? everything you mentioned is pretty readily available. I think if some sudden resource loss happened, a workaround would be found pretty quickly.

There are government, NGO, and private agencies that do research far into the future to predict and prepare for this kind of thing

why not just study basic economics

>>50928527
Stop waiting for someone to take care of you and start taking care of yourself. The world owes you NOTHING you lazy sack of shit.

Do you honestly, genuinely, I ironically believe that government - a territorial monopoly of violence and ultimate decision making - is capable of ‘planning for the future’ more effectively than individuals? And more importantly- why do you think government should have the authority to make decisions for people? Why do you WANT an arbitrary group of people to rule over you and everyone else? Are you not a sovereign individual?

>>50928527
The capitalism existed to produce enough technology, it was a bait for betas and omegas so they work hard, now they have AI and robots. It happened. Now they will end capitalism because it's not needed - enter Great Reset where they will be Gods and you will be trash eating insects, because it's cheap and there is no need to feed you with expensive meat and butter.

>>50933321
>arguing with absolute retards

>>50928527
Capitalism is LITERALLY the only way humans can behave.

>>50933421
Odds are very good that this is true with every internet debate. In fact, I'm doing it right now.

Funny how do many people assume OP is Socialist/Communist when they have made no such assertion.

>>50928916
>>50929006
Doesn't make it free market capitalism. It's a public-private partnership where a few very rich people control the economy through the state.

their plan is going well. you have no home, so you will settle for a single room where you can eat, shit and sleep. and you will pay a fortune for it. nothing can stop the plan, the last 3 generations are too fucking weak to do anything but wageslave like cattle. keep working 9-5

>>50928527
>free market

Don't make me laugh I can't buy a nuke and give it to homeless people without getting shooted.

What if we made a non-profit that gave homeless people guns?

>>50928638
90% of the problem is foreign hoard invaders

>>50929006
>why would the government form and protect from competition a centralized private bank?

How do you plan to make money off this?

What if we organised it on the blockchain?

>>50933441
communism is the natural state of things. it's how you (lol who am i kidding, no it isn't) split labor and divide resources with your wife. it's the natural state of tribes.

>>50933770
Yeah its the natural state of things bro that's why it was only invented in the past couple hundred years by a jew bro dude pass the communal weed pipe bro

>>50933770
>communism is the natural state of things

we all lives in pure egalitarian utopia but then le evil capitalism came along and made things all unfair right? when we get rid of the evil capitalism your life will turn around and THEN you'll get the girl and the money etc and we'll all live happily ever after

>>50933815
he didn't invent it, he formalized it. are you a drooling nigger retard?

>>50933828
i make six figures a year in a wfh corporate accounting job and have a long term gf. keep projecting and keep sucking your jewish boss's circumcised cock.

>>50928527
Homeless people are often drug addicted and mentally ill. And not mentally ill like oh I feel depressed or oh I think I’m not my biological sex but rather, hey that guy over there is trying to telepathically steal my thoughts I’m going to stab him to death with this rusty knife.

>>50929006
>There will be no conflict of interest between the government and the federal reserve
>You listen to me you windsor knot wearing monkey

>>50928527
>Why do people ignore a major flaw of capitalism: lack of planning for the future?
Why do people ignore THE major flaw of Capitalism: the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, combined with market saturation?
Capitalism is braindead in 2022, since there is overproduction, yet everything breaks, since industrial Capitalism cannot sell it's production, thus make a profit.

>>50933525
You are stuck in 2012. The central bank is not actually the biggest problem. The european central bank, as well as most asian central banks, are publicly owned anyway. Having free banking won't make the markets less saturated.

BUSINESS AND FINANCE

ID RATHER HAVE GORE SPAM THAN THESE RETARDED COMMIE THREADS

ITS OFFTOPIC

>>50934874
>Why do people ignore THE major flaw of Capitalism: the tendency of the rate of profit to fall
Because that's just how a competitive free market is supposed to work, increasing efficiency and driving down costs and therefore prices which increases profits, and then it slowly goes down until it reaches some equilibrium.
>why the profit rate doesn't go to zero?
Because otherwise there's no incentive for companies to do anything, profits never falls to zero.

>>50935038
With increase in productivity, rate of profit decrease. It's pretty easy: if you produce twice as much, for the same cost, each items, due to competition, are sold half the price.
So Capitalism compensate by selling more, in order to make the same profit. At one point, market get saturated, and capital cannot even sell it's production to break even. It's over.
I mean it's pretty easy to understand, yet slow brains are still stuck with the "muh private central bank jewish scam".
We are a tiny minority to understand the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. And all indicators, from market saturation, to the negative interest rates from the central banks, indicates that we are right.

>>50930842
That's not what capitalism means. Take that post-modernist bullshit somewhere else.

>>50935227
With increase in productivity, assuming you found a way reducing costs and offering a product in high demand, you actually increase profits. Of corse if everyone else adopt your strategy, rate of profits falls until it stabilizes.
Market saturation makes companies not produce too much and diversify, otherwise they go bankrupt.

What you propose sounds more like a slippery slope written by marx.

>>50928527
I'd rather live next to an empty house than a house with schizo crackhead bums living in it. They won't take care of it, they'll be a nuisance to everyone around them and they have no means of paying for it so that means money coming out of my pocket (taxes) to make my life objectively worse. Why should I be subject to having that kind of shit in my nice neighborhood just to make liberal cocksuckers feel better about themselves?

Capitalism isn't an economic model. Nobody ever wrote "the Capitalist manifesto." It's called a free market and it's what human beings naturally do. Freely exchange goods and services.

We have a government that handles things that aren't guaranteed (but sometimes do) manifest in this dynamic. Idk what you're complaining about, no you don't need some all powerful one party mega government to survive and function long term.

>>50928638
100x this. Georgism is the only fair form of capitalism which is why ((they)) will never allow it.

>>50935818
>you see, by paying more money to jews, i'm actually owning the libs

>>50935911

>the solution is yet another fucking tax on top of our 100,000 taxes

There is nothing more annoying than a dipshit who thinks he's stumbled upon enlightenment. "Georgist" is the biggest radically centrist meme I've seen consistently tossed around this board for a while now.

>>50933441
lol no, long before capitalism was endemic slavery

>>50928527
Fuck off and read a book, tankie.

>>50936043
>boohoo capitalism wants me to work like a slave for free just to maximize profits
>lol before capitalism there was slavery
So we basically debunked communism, since there's always the incentive to make people slaves.

>>50935915
>durr gib free house to homeless people because my Soros-funded think tank used data from a 90% white European country with a smaller population than most American states to "prove" this would also work in America
>who cares if the schizo exposes himself to all the kids in the neighborhood and turns his free house into a burned out drug den, surely that won't have any negative effects on property values and attract more cretins into the area

I'm rooting for Schwab. I can't wait until you dipshits are forced in the pod after your shifts at the Amazon Slave Warehouses.

>>50936158

>commiebrained termites want all powerful authoritarians at any cost

we know

>>50936158
But my jewish santa klaus told me slavery can't come back.

>>50928709
first central bank was like 1680 or something. there has never been a "free market"

>>50936262

>humanity started in 1680

don't you have a bowl of crayons to be eating

>>50936188
>>50936196
>I can't wait for 1984 to be a real things boyos and I think I'm going to make it.
Imagine being such a beta cuck you unironically want an economic system that doesn't let you run roughshod over your enemies. Capitalists are confirmed low T.

>>50928527
Fuck off commie

>>50936298
>feudalism
not free market
>roman empire
not free market
>slavery
not free market
nope no free markets here

>>50936300

Quite literally the opposite. You're sitting around praying for some big god power to come about and give you things, meanwhile we're out here taking them and competing. Fuck off you little bugbrained faggot.

>>50936335
>He thinks making widgets for shekels is competition.
>He also assumes I'm just sitting around because I choose to shit and bait post today.
Fucking midwits should get the rope first.

>>50936324

>a random caveman trading a shell for a piece of meat

free market. Fuck off. The world is just free markets, and the extent to which human created states decide to intervene in them. Everything you whine and complain about derives from state power and the level to which they decide to intervene and corrupt a pure, natural system.

>>50936352

I couldn't for the life of me imagine spending 1 second complaining about a system I'm succeeding in. You're a waste of space and should kill yourself.

>>50936128
>muh soros
>muh think of the children
be honest, is your IQ <100?

>>50936351
>caveman

>>50936352
Then give us a real alternative or fuck off.

>>50936380
I can. I'm a fucking millionaire and this shit still sucks. Imagine being such a beta cuck that you don't think you can't criticize a thing you're good at. Setting my commie bait posting aside capitalism is really some Jewish bullshit. Any system not based on spiritual patriarchal warlordism or some other system of raw power is inherently cucked.

>>50936409
Stop thinking purely about economics you dumb niggers. Hitler got this bit right in Mein Kamp when he was bitching about Austria and Germany being separate and how even if it lead to relative economic ruin they needed to reunify because their nation's honor depended on it. I'm telling you beta faggots to stop placing your allegiance to a system of money lending and observe both the spiritual realms of human existence and *actual* material power dynamics and not just a game of money changing make believe.

>>50936423
>for some reason every butthurt anti-capitalist in this godforsaken gambling board is a multimillionaire making six gorillion figures
I say larp.

>>50928663
>who will make your iphones for cheap if there is no underclass?
robots

>>50928663
>how can landlords profit if housing is cheap and accessible?
buying and renting more houses

>>50936465
ok. Sorry you missed the boat faggot. I think there is a BBBY general maybe you can hop on the reddit meme train kek

>>50936458
>stop thinking about allocation of scarce resources
>think about the nation and ethnic autism
LOL

>>50936501
>He doesn't care about his genetic lineage.
You all are only two steps away from trannies on a good day. This is partly why as this current system collapses I'm going to have such a good time torturing and enslaving you all. It's for your own good really. The Jews and Anglos aren't that bad in that regard.

>>50936494
I'm sorry if i'm not falling for it faggot.
>>50936487
>robots
Are these "robots" in the room with us right now? Are they even capable to make creative choices about allocating resources?

>>50936529
Genetics alone doesn't make your faggot life better.

>>50929461
The pollution is almost entirely 3rd world shitholes like China

>>50936465

its not a totally illogical position, the rich commies are trying to subvert an "equal" slave class into forfeiting their mobility so they can bourgeoisie all over them

>>50936423

>a communist turd and a liar

damn, do you have any redeeming qualities at all?

the problem is central banks, fren

>>50929461
Yeah, when you get down to it pollution is a form of trespassing. Make all the nasty shit you want on your own land, but if you try to dump on someone else's property, well you should get arrested. Simple solution.

>>50936591

There are certainly myriad issues with our current (state-imposed) economic framework. It's fucking annoying how lazy people are, they could be examining and criticizing existing things piecemeal and instead they say "TOSS THE BOARD OFF THE TABLE AND REVOLUTIONIZE" like the shortsighted idiots they are. That has worked for absolutely nobody in the past 100 years.

>>50936535
>Are these "robots" in the room with us right now? Are they even capable to make creative choices about allocating resources?

nah man you're right all the chips and circuit boards and mechanical parts are made by hand then moved across the world by guys on row boats. All the resource allocation is determined by guys hand counting all the parts and then calling the control center where 20,000 men write everything down in their notebook and pull out an abacus to start calculating future projections for sales and demand

>>50928527
Precisely the result of central planning. End the Fed. sage

>>50936535
Whatever helps you cope midwit.
>>50936547
Strawman.
>>50936578
My attitude as freed me from wage slavery and has me on track to at minimum set up a nice warlord state short of the Great Reset being truly fulfilled. Don't tell me you faggots are all just stacking digits for no reason. Please tell me you all are buying real property and starting to at least create personal networks of influence?
>>50936577
Ding ding ding. We finally have someone in this thread that can rub two brain cells together. Although I'll also align with fascists, capitalists, statists, etc. Whoever allows me to get away with the most fuckery. I could care less about the actual system and I ONLY care about my personal power over others. You dumb Ayn Rand fan boys are the best types of useful idiots though.

>>50936608
central bankers thrive in times of turmoil
it's how the bolsheviks took power

>>50928527
Compared to what.

>>50929046
inventing and developing the things chinks steal is a huge investment that noone would take on if they weren’t able to protect said things from just being stolen when its ready.

>>50936689
>I could care less about the actual system and I ONLY care about my personal power over others
So i'ts just butthurting because you're not always in power.
>Ayn Rand
lol and lmao

>>50936813
You always have power. Even a chattel slave has power. You always have choices too. The only time you *don't* have power is when you refuse to acknowledge what you can do. I figure a bit of memetic warfare this morning might wake one of you faggots up to do something interesting. Maybe not. I'm bored regardless so eh why not. Besides any idiot who comes and replies in a bait thread deserves the time waste.

>>50935384

Read Marx, jackass. He's the one who literally made up the term.

Communism is moneyless, stateless, and has no private ownership. It's not Communism until nobody has any more control over the means of production than anyone else. It's a state of capital existing, but nobody having control over it.

>>50936889
>This nigger doesn't know that language evolves
I may have been bait posting throughout this thread but I still hate midwits like you with a passion.

>>50928709
Correct, though I'd go farther and say we really never had a free market. We went directly from protectionist/colonial mercantalism to corporate socialism. There were times where things "felt and may have been more free (late 19th century) but it's always been some shade/mix of corporate socialism or authoritarian command socialism.

>>50936852
>You always have power
Ok you always have power, it's basic natural law if i remember right which is something i believe as well.
How do you want to use that power? Some choices are going to increase it, others makes you lose it, and this according to your preferences, but in order to make good choices you must understand what's going on around you.

For example i chose to focus on economic exchanges because that gives me the power to survive without engaging in conflict all the fucking time (preference), but this reduces my skills in combat while increasing my diplomacy.

>>50928527
the bank ends up owning everything but only when you choose to go with the fractional reserve, unbacked fiat, central banking scam.

>>50928527
Go back to pol you bolshevik piece of shit

>>50937052
And that's fine. My issue is with the mindset that ideology comes before practicality. My value is personal power first. If that means being a capitalist and playing that game then fine. If that means being a soldier and playing that game then fine. If that means being a Commissar and playing that game then fine. It's fine to have high minded ideals but the praxis of them rarely turns out the way as intended. That's why I keep my idealism limited to a Machiavellian philosophy of self. The closest analog is Stirnerism, desu.

>>50935982
>on top of our 100,000 taxes
LVT would replace all other local taxes, and you could arguably abolish capital gains tax too.

>>50937052
I hate to double post but let's take this further. Within the U.S. prison system there is a trope that crackheads/methheads when incarcerated and deprived of drugs will often end up as Sgt.,Lt. equivalents within the prison gangs or start their own gang. My guess on why that happens is because higher IQ persons are more likely to abuse drugs and high IQ individuals in lower class neighborhoods who don't get scooped up by the military industrial complex will have a high chance to fall into drug abuse. Sometimes drug abusers/prison gang leaders of that type will purposefully return to incarceration so they can return to their state of relative power. In the edge cases they'll be the second most powerful person in that institution second only to the warden. Some of the idiots in this thread would look at that situation and say:
>"What an idiot! They should return to the relative freedom of the streets where they abuse drugs and are homeless degenerates because they can make more in wage/hr terms!"
And those idiots are missing a key aspect of the male pysche. Men like to be good at things. What they value doesn't necessarily align with spreadsheet economic incentives. From a power/honor perspective the crackhead's choice to return to prison makes sense they have:
>Power over others and have achieved a managerial position if not created an institution
>The ability to influence events outside of the prison given how prison gangs spread beyond those walls
>The ability to manage and oversee large amounts of funds once an organized crime network is created even if they don't materially indulge like a Scarface wannabe
>The honor of restoring their ego in the face of their past and becoming something more than a street vagrant.
For all your autists reading this thread remember this. The reason "true capitalism and free markets" will never exist is because individual men (to include businessmen) will never all agree on what game we are playing.

>>50928527
Most individuals lack planning for the future. If individuals planned for the future, spending would be lower and college debt wouldn't exist. Changing the economic structure will not fix human nature

>>50937902
Fine for me, i like your versatility.

>>50938191
This is an interesting take, but i would argue that what i seek when i talk about a free market is not heaven, there's no such thing as true capitalism it's just retarded projection from commies who seek to enstablish a system they can't even define properly.

So yes, from an evolutionary point of view everything is possible and violence as well, it's just that i want to avoid that as much as i can, the fact that mutual relationships in nature are also a thing makes me define associate with others, define what property is and defend what is mine, just like how brutal and violent competition makes me steal property.

>>50938721
I'm of two minds on violence because of the way I've seen it applied in the modern world. If you eugenics hundreds of millions of babies it's considered freedom by large segments of the super majority of Western populations. If we had a paternalist dictatorship that banned that practice but killed say 100K-1 mil political dissidents a year that's considered Hitler or Stalinesque. I have a hard time squaring the ideal of "mutual relationships" with the degeneracy that humans without virtue get up to if left to their own devices.

>>50938862
>I have a hard time squaring the ideal of "mutual relationships" with the degeneracy that humans without virtue get up to if left to their own devices.
And i have an hard time in believing in true, "non-degenerate" societies when they're all infested with hypocrisy like you pointed out with eugenics and genocide. For them it's fine to kill people as long you're not the one doing it actively and in a "humane" way.

And that's more or less i i choose to be free, i really don't want to be dragged into their shit if those "humans without virtue" get all the power.

>>50928527
>major flaw of capitalism: lack of planning for the future
All the problems you've mentioned are issues with government. Zoning, licensing, fees, taxes, permits, etc. Government takes more value than it provides and leaves companies with fewer and fewer options to make cost-effective, long-term decisions. In far worse cases, government incentivizes those awful short-term decisions, when a politician or entire state government agree to a deal that allows a company to pollute or take wasteful actions.

>>50939211
Checked. Thanks for taking the time to talk today. It's good to come and have a dialogue on here sometimes to test ideals out. Take it easy anons.

>>50928527
>Is there a solution for this lack of foresight in this economic model?
No at the end if the days it all comes down to incentives and accountability, politicians and autocrats simply don't have the proper incentives and accountability to plan the economy, nevermind the ability to do so.

Planned economy is great in theory, IF whoever is in charge knows what is best and is willing to do it. In practice, it never happen, so we're better off with a free market.

That's not to say that their shouldn't be restrictions. One of the major flaw with the current system is that corporations, and more importantly, leaders of corporations, lacks accountability. Things would get a lot better if white collar criminals were actually put in jail.

>>50939425
You too, thanks.