/biz/ - Business & Finance

Omg the normies are really here
FUCKFUCKFUCKUCK

>buying alts that don't outperform bitcoin

>>5088834
This
/thread

Don't you newfags get it? If you are losing in terms of sats, that means you would have gotten more gainz just leaving your money in BTC and saved yourselves a boatload of time researching whatever alts you bought.

>inb4 buying meme coins shilled on biz without researching

>>5088834
>>5088863
Many alts outperformed BTC by huge margins.
Does that mean you start measuring BTC in those alts?

>>5089078
>If you are losing in terms of sats, that means you would have gotten more gainz just leaving your money in BTC
Yes, having perfect foresight would be nice.
You are very smart, anon. Much brain.

>>5089078
XRP's appreciation for example has outperformed every single coin this year, period.

>>5089097
This. Don't expect the maximalists to reply to you though.

>>5089134
>no one can predict the future
>better not even try to think!

I bet you think trading is gambling too

>>5089213
It IS gambling you fucking retard
>i-it's not gambling dad, I'm a digital cryptographic asset manager

>>5089078
>My trading strategy is based around hindsight

>>5089213
"Accumulate sats and hope it keeps going up forever based on nothing but pure speculation and hype" is not much better than gambling brainlet.

>>5089078
I'm not going to even elaborate how dumb this post linked above this text is, but it's pretty fucking dumb.

>>5089097
>>5089207
The whole market is driven by BTC and biggest reason why alts see pumps is BTC money being redistributed. I'm not a BTC maximalist, I don't even hold it and but it's a just fact.

>>5089325
>The whole market is driven by BTC
True to an extent
>and biggest reason why alts see pumps is BTC money being redistributed.
What about ETH? I know loads of people (myself included) who ditched BTC for ETH after the August 1st fork.

>>5089325
BTC is the biggest name in the game, but even it is valued in USD.

>>5089381
I did exactly the same and measuring most of my alts in ETH since they are tokens and bought for ETH. But most people are still trying to accumulate BTC, not ETH.
>>5089416
Of course it is, but all other coins and tokens are derivatives from BTC in a certain way. And again
>most people are still trying to accumulate BTC

>>5089553
>measuring most of my alts in ETH
ETH is measured in USD.

>But most people are still trying to accumulate BTC
BTC is measured in USD.

>>5089579
> ETH is measured in USD.
> BTC is measured in USD.

Try again you tiny brained /pol/-tier nationalist.

>>5089657
Haha what?

>>5089657
But is you absolute dumb fuck

>>5089302
>>5089134
>>5089184

Brainlets. BTC is the only coin guanrateed to rise over time. It's a sure bet. If you aren't out performing BTC, why the fuck would you bother with alts?
>muh dinosaur coin
>muh bubble gonna burst

If BTC goes down, every fucking coin dies. There's no crypto without BTC. Hence
>muh satoshis

BTC is measured in USDT

>>5089732
>BTC is the only coin guanrateed to rise over time.

>>5089579
Whatever, you can use any measure you want. Measuring in sats and gwei allows you to understand the market situation and know your opportunity costs/benefits. But from my experience main reason why people use USD measure for altcoins is because they don't want accept the fact they are holding bags.

>>5089097
Right and if an alt is underperforming BTC, going down in sats. It would make sense to pull money out anx put it into BTC? its a littlr more complicated that the buy high sell low shit biz is used to

>>5089732
>There's no crypto without BTC.

So many people are going to kill themselves when BTC dies...

If you lose in sats it means you would've made more by holding btc. That's it. Just showing opportunity cost

>>5089754
I would rephrase it in a pessimistic way - if BTC fails every other coin/token would fail as well.

>>5089732
Why do people here act as if placing your money into one coin is the only option?
Have like 4 or 5 positions to reduce your volatility imo

>>5089881
Except those that have real use
Like smart contracts

Smart contracts > muh internet gold

>>5089810
Guess what, there have been alts that have outperformed BTC by MASSIVE margins. Does that mean BTC holders are holding bags?

>>5089851
Putting your money into a better performer makes sense, yes.
That's what trading is all about.

>>5089881
Not at all.
In case you hadn't noticed, the cat is out of the bag. Everyone and their mum is building their own blockchain or DLT.

Could be that they all fall to the wayside and BTC adopts every single useful function ever devised by an altcoin.
Could also be that many thrive.
Could also be that a better alternative to BTC overtakes BTC, which is already mired in dysfunction and strife due to a lack of leadership and vision.

>>5089859
They've been saying that since, hell since the first alt I reckon.

>>5089862
This. It's a measure of if your strategy is beating the market. You think this shit will last forever? You need to maximize your return before the quantum trading ai's turn on and this whole ride ends.

>>5089862
Agreed, so that's why I don't understand these "u actually made a loss if u lost in sats!" meme. A fiat gain is a fiat gain. Opportunity cost is one thing, an actual fiat LOSS is another.

By all means, people should check their performance against the major trading pairs - but satoshi hoarding and then saying "FIAT MEASURE IS 4 NOOBS!" is probably the most retarded thing on this board. (Not accusing you, just building off your post)

Anybody saying sats matter more than $ are absolute fucking retards.

If BTC crashed to 1 cent with no prospect of recovery, would they still care about sats?

They have no answer to this.

>>5089917
I'm talking about cryptomarket in it current state. Smart contracts != crazy speculative internet money.

>>5088794
The only reason everyone isnt measuring in sats is because we havent had the altcoin ragnarok yet. The day people realize 99% of altcoins have nothing to show for all that money people threw at them and they bail to either fiat, which prolongs its life depending on their gains or bitcoin which effectively will be fiats end.

I tend to watch closely and move my wealth accordingly.

>>5089732
>muh muh

>>5089732

BTC dominance is falling again => money diversifies more => BTC slowly dies

>not measuring in gwei

>>5089968
If BTC crashes to 1 cent, I hope you've got your money in US gov bonds..

>>5090016
>implying the economy would care or even notice

>>5089943
Guess what, there have been alts that have outperformed BTC by MASSIVE margins. Does that mean BTC holders are holding bags?
Very few alts. And even fewer since May/June.
>Everyone and their mum is building their own blockchain or DLT
>>5089984

>>5090040
>Very few alts. And even fewer since May/June.
1) doesn't matter
2) it's a fair amount

The point is there will always be something that outperforms whatever asset you're holding or whatever strategy you're using.
When you're up, you're up. Just because something else is up more doesn't make you a bag holder. That's ridiculous.

>>5089984
Not sure what you mean by this.

>>5089248
>>5089213
>muh gambling

bad at math, bad at charts, bad at games

get good

>>5090185
>risking money on predicting a future event to make more money
>not gambling

>>5090135
We just have different approaches. For me 'holding bags' = missing opportunities even if I'm not losing money per se (ie holding stable eth during the btc bullrun).

>>5089213
>>5089248
>>5089249

It's like gambling but with better odds.

>>5090372
>For me 'holding bags' = missing opportunities
In other words, you're a priest in the church of FOMO.
Good luck with that.

>>5089248
every single decision u make in life is a gamble too u dunce

>>5088794
>>5088819
>>5089078
Fuck it I'm not gonna you everyone.

>Not watching sats and USD both.

>>5090420

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

>>5090469
I know.

>>5089968
>If BTC crashed to 1 cent with no prospect of recovery

Your portfolio would be worth 0

>>5090468

Doesn't make much sense. Just compare the gains in USD.

So much fucking dumb money in this thread (and /biz in general).

I can't wait to take all your gainz from you.

>>5090461
Not really mate
>I've been stood up all day, I'm going to go sit down
Not gambling
>inb4 hurr but you might break your pelvis when your cheeks hit the cushion

>>5090420
No, that's just to make myself alert and understand market. Actually I often fall for HODL meme but at least I'm trying to become better at researching/trading instead of comforting my reddit friends with 'Imagine if all BTC millionaires would have sold at $10' mantra.

>>5090185
If you aren't making 5000% gains on your portfolio daily, then you can have a nice hot glass of shut the fuck up.

Spending money because you believe in a version of the future is gambling you fucking mong.

>>5090659
It's one thing to watch the market and opportunity cost.
It's another thing entirely to think you're bagholding when your altcoin is "only" up 3x in USD when BTC is up 5x.

>>5090622
good luck wandering thru life with that pea for a brain

>>5090703
Right. What about x1.05 vs 5x?

>>5090731

>>5090802
x1.05 is still a gain. You can make it as close to 1 as you like, as long as it never goes under x1 then it is still a gain, or at the very least a break even.

>>5090802
>Right. What about x1.05 vs 5x?
Depends on the potential of that x1.05 coin.

Are you thinking of a specific coin btw?

>>5090845
>as long as it never goes under x1 then it is still a gain
not when you pay fees to trade

>>5091022
what

>>5091022
That gain already includes the fees you dumbfuck.

>>5090866
>>5090845
For example BTC vs ETH during BTC bullrun. ETH have bigger potential, but people who are good at trading switched to BTC and rebought ETH 3.5x lower. It wasn't FOMO, just better understanding of the market. Sometimes you just need to forget about fundamentals/potential and follow the crowd. Of course it's impossible to time market perfectly but it's still better than hold.

>>5091069
>It wasn't FOMO, just better understanding of the market.
Source?

>>5091069
Same happened before BCH fork in august. This time there were a lot of indicators from the beginning that bullrun would last.

>>5091065
How? If you buy a coin/token at say 0.0009 sats, and the price stays the same and you sell them, you still have to pay the exchange fees, meaning you end up with less

>>5091236
>>5091101
Two scheduled BTC forks and CME listing.

>>5091245
>whole 0.05% in fees

>>5091236
>This time there were a lot of indicators from the beginning that bullrun would last.
So how much did you make?

>>5091260
One fork got cancelled out of the blue. BTC could've tanked to $2k right then and there.

Instead of shitposting let's try to make some actual money guys

>>5090889

>>5091314
>still a loss

>>5091333
for anyone but an autist like you it's a break-even

>>5091317
Nothing, I held ETH and alts. But at least I admit my mistake and don't brag about my iron hands unlike of lots of TRUE HODLERS here and on reddit.
>One fork got cancelled out of the blue. BTC could've tanked to $2k right then and there.
It's was more about CME listing.

>>5091458
>Nothing, I held ETH and alts.
But you just said there were a lot of indicators from the beginning that the bull run would last?

>>5090493
no it wouldnt, bitcoin is the a mountain it was 5 years ago anymore, it would suck a bunch of dick for sure, but it wouldnt take everything with it like it did with all the gox shit

>>5091492
lmao he just admitted to hindsight 20/20

but binance only shows me sats i fucking hate what do i do i cant keep track of all these numbers REEEEEE

>>5088834
>hodling shitcoins
daytrading shitcoins is the patrician way to lamboland.
gaining btc while btc is rising

>>5091429
Not the point

>>5091585
That he did.

>>5089078
this.
/thread.
Seriously, people are trolling now with this satoshis<fiaat meme. Either that or they are paid btrash (I don't care which is real, I have just heard way too many ppl mention bcash during this satoshi thing that I now think it is FUD for core so I am calling it trash from now on) shills or pajeets who want noobs to ignore the satoshis and feed it to them while they concentrate on fiat. Either way, it is fucking annoying.

>>5089732
You bother with alts to increase your Satoshis you brainlet. Keeping money in btc is fine but if you don't have much you need to get more btc by trading alts! You Are as bad as the rest of these noobs 'thinking' fiat matters more. LURK MORE!

>>5091927
>muh sats

>>5091927
I monitor my investments in $ and day trade in sats. Made 12x in 2 months. Annyoing are you retarded buttcoin maximalists, thinking that your worthless shitcoin will appreciate forever.

>>5091963
why? btc is useless

>>5091963
>Hoard satoshis
>Basically an "all in" one one of the most volatile shitcoins in existence

top trading strat warren

>they don't value their crypto in kitties
Never gonna make it.

>>5091927
Sats are valued in USD.
Therefore anything you value in sats is always automatically valued in USD.

>Buy fuckwitcoin from fuckwitcoin's lone dev
>you are the lone bagholder and he doesn't want to buy it back
>there is literally zero volume
>bitcoin price goes up 10%
>"Wow, fuckwitcoin has gone up 10%, what a great buy"

You are measuring against the reserve currency and the reserve currency is BTC. You are gauging whether your purchase is winning or losing against the thing you made your purchase with, which is BTC. The fact that you sold BTC to buy fuckwitcoin means that is the meaningful measure of whether buying your coin was a good decision or not.

Get it in your heads you fucking deluded normie newfag retard faggots.

>>5092545
>You are gauging whether your purchase is winning or losing against the thing you made your purchase with, which is BTC
Or ETH.

What you made your purchase with is a formality.
BTC and ETH themselves are valued in fiat. Therefore anything you value in BTC or ETH is automatically being valued in fiat as well.

>>5092545
>>bitcoin price goes up 10%
>>"Wow, fuckwitcoin has gone up 10%, what a great buy"
Except this doesn't happen to any alt with a decent volume. Sat value will always try to correct to match the initial $ value. Keep trying bitcoincucks, I am yet to hear a single convincing argument. You smug retards sound like the biggest newfag normies.

Why do they call it sats and not just "BTC value" or something similar? Calling it "satoshis" is autistic as fuck and tries to make it sound like its something more complex than the value in BTC. Its just....the fucking value in BTC. Thats what it is, sats is autistic.

>>5092618

>Sat value will always try to correct to match the initial $ value.

That's literally people selling to get on BTC moons.

>>5090238
>predicting a future event
you are just supposed to ride waves and catch reversals with a tight risk management you dumb cuck. you predict absolutely nothing

>>5092738
The absolute state of nu-/biz/.

>>5088794
>>5088819
>>5088834
>>5088863
>>5089078
>>5089248
>>5089732
>>5090238
WHY ARE YOU NEWFAGS POSTING ON MY BOARD. FUCKING LURK MORE
>buh-hu-hu guys why don't you use a crystal ball and see the price fluctuations of the market in advance!
>buh-hu-hu you only doubled your money? HAH I tripled mine. I guess that means you... LOST MONEY?! HAHA
You fucking newfag "smart money investors" are cancerous to financial discourse. Value is whatever the fuck the person sees it as. Did you lose money because you didn't invest in Microsoft? Did you lose money because you didn't buy BTC in 2009? Did you lose money when you didn't buy Google or Amazon stocks? No you didn't. You COULD have made more money, but that's the fucking problem.
You newfags are so focused on trying to make it yesterday- which makes it that much harder to make it tomorrow.
/biz/ isn't about having money, it's about handling and making money.
>>5092784
Do you newfags ACTUALLY think there's only one way to make money?
>>5091738
>Coming to /biz/ thinking there's only one way to make money
You newfags really love creating antagonists to your ventures, don't you? This isn't a fucking election where the other side has to lose for you to win.
>>5089881
No they won't you ignorant fuck. They'll dip, but the tech behind most of the legitimately useful projects out there will give you a near guaranteed return on your investment.

You newfags make me distraught and tired.

Feels good to know that there a bunch of braindead people (normies) investing in Crypto.
I'd gladly take the sats you leave on the table as they're always more valuable than Fiat. Honestly this gives me hope I'm gonna make it. Btw, when you buy altcoins do you buy them in Fiat? Last time I checked, the pairs with the most volume were traded against BTC, ETH or USDT, then why on earth are there people measuring they're gains in fiat if they're underperforming the currency they're trading their altcoin against more than 50% of the time?

>>5093271
>Do you newfags ACTUALLY think there's only one way to make money?
i never said that. you can flip coins at casino and make money

oh wait, you're a retarded attention seeking tripfag who doesn't even bother reading posts, nvm

>>5089859
>believing this

crypto is here to stay no matter what. (in terms of IRL use)

Question is for us; how long is trading shitcoins is going to be profitable?

>>5090889

ITT: People desperately wishing to believe that their shitty trades weren't shitty.

>>5093271
Why are you talking to me? I agree with you you fucking sperg

>>5088794
ITT: Newfag bagholders in hard cope mode
Even the most boob friendly analytics website -CMC hints at you to measure in fucking sats
>Muh NEO is mooning
>OMG is up 15%
>Muh LINK is pumping
>Muh Ark might go up again soon
But in reality, you are getting JUSTd everytime the king males a move. If you just held Buttcoins you would have made more net profit.

>>5094687
>Boob kek

>>5094687

>>5094749
If hindsight is the common sense that made me financially free, I'm down with it

>>5094828
I'm not knocking your strategy at all, just saying how easy it is to say "You should've done this" in hindsight. Everyone can see the past

>>5094895
I'm giving advice for the future here. I also made the same mistake and I'm just trying to point it out. I'm not better than anyone here I've been here longer and i've just seen some crazy shit.

>>5093296
>>5094518
>>5094687
Nice to see there's still people with brains here.

>believe BTC, a coin whose price is only due to its price, is a good long term store of value
>believe BTC will always go up and never die
>due to the above two, complete delusional confidence in BTC will prevent any sighting of all the signals BTC will die
>longterm hold means BTC likely stored in wallet
>massive tx fees and tx times NOW, would be insane in the case of a panic sell

All that together means that rabid BTC holders of /biz/ will NEVER get out in time when BTC crashes. They will see the signs and call it FUD by "shitcoiner cucks" or "nocoiners", they will see the price dip but they will not sell because they "know" that it will never stop growing in the end. As the price decreases and signals increase, more and more people will sell their BTC, massively overloading the network and leading to hundreds if not thousands of dollars in fees and days if not weeks in tx times. At this point, even delusional BTC holders will start wavering, but it's too late, they will send BTC to an exchange to sell only for it to tell them "estimated tx time: 2 weeks". By the time they finally get their money on an exchange, the price will be nothing, because nobody sane would be buying a coin with zero use cases and terrible ancient tech.

BTC is good if you know exactly what you're doing and hold no emotional attachement to it, which can't be said about BTC zealots on /biz/ (just mention BTC in a negative light anywhere in your post, you'll see them come running, foaming at the mouth). All these people will get burned so hard there will be suicides, no joke.