/biz/ - Business & Finance

XMR is already banned from most exchanges and many US banks out right won't let people buy it. And even after all of the roadblocks thrown in by the government and banks, people can still use and mine it on any old computer. As long as that is the case I don't really see what exactly the US Treasury can do. They are too far behind the technological curve for their regulation to have any teeth.

>>50806012
You don't invest in monero for fiat gains

>>50806012

Bring it on.

>>50806012
> Tornado Cash for it's roll in laundering billions of tainted and identifiable bitcoins.
See that's the thing, since they are identifiable, you can track and see which illegal activities were committed. You can't have tainted coins if they cannot be tainted. With Monero, you can only presume (with outside information) since it is private by default.
Banning Monero would be counterproductive, as it would effectively mean that the governments admit it works as intended.

Also, this >>50806256. It is foolish to have Monero and swap to a weaker currency that is dying and is backed by nothing.

>>50806576
Ok my concern though is cake or changelly having it banned for transactions in the US. Is that even possible?

>>50806635
What do you mean, to ban Monero's transactions using cake or changelly? You can't ban swap services. Why would you ban them? I don't quite understand your question.

Just use 0xMonero, mixing is off-chain

>>50806635
The gray market will always exist which allows XMR to be used for everyday purchases using the gift card function in the monero.com wallet and places like keys4coins

The black market also isn't going anywhere for your more spicy needs.

>>50806759
How about just use Monero and fuck off with mixing alltogether?

>>50806791
proposing to use common sense to /biz and maxipads. XD

At least the nose is getting tighter for bitcoin niggers

>>50806012
>money laundering service
hope those 6 billion mcap goes to monero

>>50806756
Why can you not ban swaps?

>>50808540

Same reason you can't ban P2P file sharing.

>>50806576
You do that whenever you use cakepay to buy a gift card
No it isn’t foolish to sell Monero for fiat since nowhere actually accepts crypto, let alone Monero
Even when you use a goybase card all that’s being done is your crypto is sold for fiat by Coinbase which the vendor then accepts

>>50808568
Not even close to the same thing. Swaps are centralized.

>>50808609

Fuck those, we're talking about atomic swaps and DEXs.

>>50808636
I've never used em. I guess I need to learn. I tried to use one off tor but it's so damn slow it wasn't really feasible.

>>50808574
what is inflation
what is organic growth

GTFO maxifag. I hear shiba is all the rage now

>>50806172
wait until one of those 80,000 new IRS agents finds Monero mining software on your computer. You'd be in serious shit in your jew hellhole.

>>50808823
Imagine not using full disk encryption. I'm a US citizen. Gonna have to rubber hose decrypt me bitch.

>>50806012
monero will fail for other reasons. re: chainalysis

>>50808770
atomic swaps are not fully operative on mainet for the moment but it's definitly coming
see
https://github.com/comit-network/xmr-btc-swap
https://sethforprivacy.com/guides/bitcoin-monero-atomic-swaps/
https://unstoppableswap.net/

>>50808794
>what is inflation
Irrelevant to the topic at hand
If you actually want to fucking buy something you swap Monero for USD, and that’s a fucking fact no matter how many middlemen you out between the coin and fiat. At the end of the day you use fiat currency exchanged for using Monero. Wanna buy drugs? You spend $200 of fiat for 1.2 Monero, and send it to a drug dealer on whatever shitty Silk Road knockoff is popular these days, and he sells his Monero for $200. You want to buy something at the store with your Monero? You use cakepay to purchase a debit card for a corresponding fiat value to your invested Monero, and you spend FIAT at the store.
>what is organic growth
A meme at this point in time because even ducking Bitcoin, with a marketcap of 1.2 trillion at its ath was still not accepted for payments nearly anywhere. You used a goybase card, which auto sold it for fiat which would then be accepted by a vendor. So yes at the moment there’s a huge fucking use for swapping Monero for USD, and that’s actually being able to buy things.

>>50808823
What are unwilling malware botnets?
-your iphone could be mining as we speak
-probably is because your a coomer-cum for brains
What is TOR?

never mix bitcoin and corn syrup my fren

>>50808874
>monero will fail for other reasons. re: chainalysis
LMAO what are you talking about dipshit

>>50808916
>>50808794
And for what it’s worth I like the Monero project, and what it provides. I just don’t delude myself into these fantasies where fiat is useless and crypto has taken over like so many retards in this board have. In august 2022 selling your Monero makes plenty of sense if you need to actually purchase something, or get a loan, etc.
It’s going to be a long time yet before fiat isn’t useful.

>>50808823
I'm a US Tax Accountant and there is literally no tax consequence at all for simply buying Monero. Mining it is de minimis and you wouldn't even need to report anything unless you were lucky to get a block reward (0.6 monero is $100 - not a single IRS agent would give a fuck about $100.)

>>50808934
https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-seizure-record-doj-crypto-tracing-monero/
>The cryptocurrency tracing firm Chainalysis, which counts the IRS as a customer, has privately touted its own secret methods to trace monero. Last year hackers leaked a presentation to Italian police in which Chainalysis claimed it could provide a “usable lead” in 65 percent of monero tracing cases. In another 20 percent of cases, it could determine a transaction's sender but not its recipient.

read a book nigga

>>50808916
>>what is inflation
>Irrelevant to the topic at hand
>If you actually want to fucking buy something you swap Monero for USD
logical fallacies on every step pleb.
you can exchange it for USD or any other shit coin at any time, but in theory it should be a store of value. so it is super relevant to the topic. nice attempt at a diversion, BTC IQ lvl people do fall for it

>>50808916
>>what is organic growth
>A meme at this point in time because even ducking Bitcoin, with a marketcap of 1.2 trillion at its ath was still not accepted for payments nearly anywhere
no shit. because BTC is NOT used by anyone lol, are this stupid XD. its just a speculative ponzi. its not even a crypto. You could remove BTC mcap from the scene and XMR would function as normal. new xmr vendors pop up every day and transaction counts are up

>>50808916
>So yes at the moment there’s a huge fucking use for swapping Monero for USD
no argument that coincards are amazeballs. but thatn not what you were arguing about. it was your stupid claim to HODL fiat and ditch XMR, in a desperate attempt to feel better about your shiba-BTC bags

>>50809009
>"We can trace Monero because... we just can, Ok?

The IRS traces bad OPSEC, not Monero.

>>50809009
I can claim.to also be godm show me results

>>50809009
What is plausible deniability.
Also the story is misleading, they traced BTC

>>50808574
Monero is fantastically growing in adoption. You could almost live your life with just XMR (depends on your means, where you live and what you do). You can see businesses that accept it and purchase there using XMR or gift cards from it (like cakepay).
I'm not talking about those cards from cuckbase and such, as they are counter-productive to what crypto is about.

>>50808770
Atomic swaps are kinda novel and slow right now, fortunately the tech is being improved upon so that it becomes as easy as P2P exchanges (like the other anon mentioned) such as localmonero. DEXs are also easy to use, if they were to be banned or KYC'd they would just resurface underground on the darknet.
There is always a solution to every problem.

>>50806012
The Ethereum network mixer by 0xMonero (0xTIP) mixes off-chain and cannot be banned. There are no on chain transactions or contracts to monitor.

>>50809009
>read a book nigga

>Tracing monero has long been suggested to be theoretically possible. A 2017 study by one group of researchers

lol the old pre-2018 Monero FUD strikes again!

>A typical FUD tactic involves citing outdated, pre-2018 data and hoping you won't think to ask about it's age. Namely, Monero is a constant work-in-progress that only keeps getting more and more secure with age, meaning it used to be somewhat less so a few years back when 0-decoy or non-fixed mixins were allowed and amounts weren't yet shielded (pre-RingCT).

https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD

>>50808823
Just pay your taxes lmao

>>50809188
sure dude this happened last year
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/09/21/leaked-slides-show-how-chainalysis-flags-crypto-suspects-for-cops/

>>50809046
>>50809058
>>50809082
>ok everyone here is our IP on how we make money, please do not steal and please do not try and thwart the method!

you all can use the privacy coin with less than a 65% chance of obscuring who you are, that's your prerogative I guess

>>50808874
>monero will fail for other reasons. re: chainalysis

>>50809312
>sure dude this happened last year

The story leaked last year, the data is from 2017 and involves the WannaCry ransomware attack of that same year.

>Leaked slides belonging to Chainalysis recently surfaced. They include the claim that Monero transactions related to the WannaCry 2.0 ransomware were traced as they were converted back to the transparent BTC and BCH blockchains.

>In May 2017, the WannaCry 2.0 ransomware infected hundreds of thousands of computers worldwide causing an estimated hundreds of millions to billions of dollars in damage.


Also:

>used a custom ring sig of 4 instead of the standard 3 which made them stick out like a sore thumb. BTW custom ring sizes are impossible now.
>used payment IDs (off by default, deprecated in 2019)
>sloppy use of transparent ledgers
>depositing amounts totaling very close to the exact amount they stole into THE SAME transparent wallet
>all of the above on a KYC exchange


So they weren't traced because they used Monero, they were traced because they were spectacularly retarded and used atrociously bad OPSEC. Timing and correlation attacks can and will happen on ANY chain regardless of how ironclad the privacy is.

>>50808346
>At least the nose is getting tighter
Kek not sure if spelling error or very based. Fuck the (((big noses))) and fuck maxipads.

>>50809312
Lol retard this has been debunked

>>50809309
no

You can always exchange Monero with a guy on a street. Addresses are hidden, balances are hidden, transactions are hidden. No such thing as blacklisted addresses or tainted coins. This is crucial in real life exchange. Almost as if Monero is somehow the only fucking cryptocurrency actually designed to be used in practice.

>>50806012
XMR, SCRT, ROSE
All fucked

>>50810027
Oh and Monero has sub-addresses: You can give every person a different address leading to your one wallet and they will have no idea.

>>50810067
you can't recommend them in good faith. they are tricky and users WILL screw up
https://www.monerooutreach.org/breaking-monero/subaddress-association-janus-attack.html

>>50810151

Nigga, most people's threat profile isn't Escobar-tier.

the entire monero chain, devs, miners, etc will all get sanctioned by OFAC. sorry fags hth

>>50809312
kys you dumb fuck

>>50810204
Monero sisters have the mindset of a teenage girl:
>it wasn't real socialism!
>he should have churned indeterminate amount of times, never received in the first place, and never sent to anyone. he would have been safe.
if you can't safely receive money from an exchange that's a big fat L.

>>50810353
There is no such thing as perfect privacy you mongoloid.

>>50810256
>the entire monero chain

[laughs in DEX]

>devs

most have remained anonymous and don't even submit code directly

>miners

[laughs in RandomX]


>will all get sanctioned by OFAC. sorry fags hth

lets hope they actually try!

>>50810370
never said it was. but every time a monero sister gets busted the sisterhood goes "it wasn't real monero!" for the average user monero is just a privacy theater..

>>50806012
Monero's a fed run psy-op at this point anon. you should move into zk-snarks based privacy protocols like zcash and arrr. that is, unless you hate money.

>>50808891
arrr will have atomic swaps perfected before monero will even have one trading pair

>>50810683
>Z-cash faggots crawling out of the wood works to shill thrier fed coin through double speak.

Every time.

>>50810725
fuck you fed faggot, you lying bitches shit all over every other privacy protocol then tout opsec like using monero and only monero at all times even though ciphertrace already sells xmr tracing software. the monero fags on this board are either feds or retarded larpers.

People that want to trade eth and eth tokens privacy should use the privacy sidechain incognito wallet.

>>50810353

Theoretical vulnerabilities aren't always viable in real-world settings. Between "muh poisoned outputs", "muh output flooding" and "muh Janus attacks" there should be at least an entire cellblock of busted XMR users by now.

Yet somehow the total number is: 0

>>50810841
>though ciphertrace already sells xmr tracing software.

Wow, better alert the darknet then, new Monero-only markets keep launching, already 4 in just the past month alone!

Quick! Hurry, before its too late!!!!!!!

>>50810969
>implying that this (((monero darknet))) isn't run by feds.

>>50811064

>everything that doesn't use my jeetcoin is a glowie op.

>>50811064
I like how you feds have snarky little gifs and .png's ready to go for every reply. It gives me hope that my tax money is not completely wasted.

>>50811113
implying his glow shitcoin is used by anyone in the first place KEK.

>>50810683
[REDACTED]

>>50810890
look at leaked interpol slides.
they don't announce this shit publicly so you will keep using it. same thing as this https://www.vice.com/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shield-anom-fbi-secret-phone-network
>Trojan Shield: How the FBI Secretly Ran a Phone Network for Criminals

>>50809009
Just swish it around back and forth a few times. So what if they get one of those, the difficulty of tracing scales up exponentially. Hockey stick style with more transactions. Automate it for 100s.

>>50811910
hahaha holy shit the glowies are so scared they are referring to non existent fud

>>50811910
dude you're literally shitposting with interpol right now.

>tornado cash tries to be compliant so people can use it while still cooperating with the government
>gets punished for it
well that shows you what trying to work with the government so people can fill out their taxes while remaining private to everyone else gets you.

compliance gets you fucked. monerochads you were right all along, i used to shill tornado cash for free cause i thought it was good to meet the authorities half way, i was wrong. i kneel.

>>50806012
Basically all Monero holders are guilty of war crimes.
Enjoy your gitmo visit, chuds

>>50806012
The only thing I exchange my Monero for is physical goods and services.

>>50808609
It seems you're not aware that there is a DEX which enables private swaps and trades.

>>50810683
nah

>>50810841
When it comes to privacy why would I trust a coin that doesn't default run a private protocol?

>>50813939
>KEEP CALLING IT PEDOPHILIA IT'LL WORK SOONER OR LATER

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the history of tor

>>50809009
I was the anon who was on the embarrassing Webex presentation by Ciphertrace recently, it was still blatantly apparent that they have no idea what they are talking about and openly lie about their capabilities, they can't even get terminology right.

>>50813178
I have yet to see a defi that isnt secretly cefi that can rug at any time. The closest one that I can think of is Bisq.

>>50806012
Holy shit. So does this mean you can now 'swat' people by sending them tornado cash?

XMR-accepting websites will increase. The issue is can you get normal legal stuff with it and how do you deliver them?

>>50814857
I've purchased plenty of legal drugs with XMR; Kratom, Blue lotus ( I have a job that drug tests) never had any issues. I've bought stickers and shirts, etc etc. Though admittedly they were XMR memorabilia

>>50811200
I fucking wish their existence wasn't a waste and that they fought for our own country and people.
free speech / code from American citizens is getting censored right now and they're spending their time and people's money shilling against who they supposedly took an oath to serve.
checked

>>50814812
Basically yes. This is also a problem for Bitcoin as you have an extensive OFAC list of BTC addresses which are illegal to interact with. A belligerent OFAC address holder could send people they dislike their tainted coins and make them get a visit from the Department of Justice (or whoever has jurisdiction).

>>50808346
n-word used

>>50814857
Monero will never gain widespread acceptance. No legitimate business is going to accept it because the US government will put anti money laundering restrictions in place and they won't want to bother. If you hold XMR, you're basically just doing it to have some money that's off the grid because the everyday use cases will be extremely limited. That's it, that's the use case. Anyone holding it as an investment is delusional.

>>50814812
vitalik is the number one user of tornado cash by volume

>>50808346
I'd say the nose is getting bigger kek