/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50673006
The equipment, workers, and means of compensating them do not go away because we stopped paying a bunch of useless middlemen to embezzle money.

turnpike

>>50673018
no anon, I don't think it's possible. it's impossible to build roads without taxes.

>>50673039
Oh, well, I guess that settles that then. Guess we give up on roads.

>>50673006
All roads would be private, you would pay for using them.
And since the demand of roads is high, there will be a lot of companies who will provide their services.

>>50673006
>muh roads

>>50673006
high capacity, modern roads didn't exist until we funded the interstate system during and after WW2.

>>50673056
There could be 5 roads between cities, all next to each other and bidding for my traffic.
Read up on natural monopolies you fucking addled mutt.

well I'm glad all of /biz/ agrees, taxes are needed because without taxes roads would not exist

>>50673199
Checked but fuck your roads.

>>50673006
Far less than 1% of all tax revenue (income tax, sales tax, employment taxes, capital gains, property, etc) go to the construction and maintenance of roads. I have no problem with being taxed a very small amount to fund public roads.

>>50673237
Fuck you, your taxes and your roads. It always starts at a small 1 percent. Then two generations later you'll have a welfare state destroying the family and a military-intelligence industrial complex that puts the Stasi to shame. It is a legitimate slippery slope.

>>50673018
>>50673039
>T. Has never built a road
One billion dollars and eight hundred thousand hours of labor per mile of pavement. Hand it over, goy.

>>50673006
The people who made personal flying impossible laugh at free men not having roads.
It's all a big joke.

>>50673263
You just make it constitutional that taxes are elective.

If you don't tick the road tax box you literally can't use them. Same for everything thing else. That way when welfare state comes in no one agrees to fund it.

>>50673086
There are more than 5 roads bidding for your traffic.
>Airports
>Sea/river ports
>Car roads
>Railways
>Bike roads
>Sidewalks
And there is more than one way through each of them.

>>50673312
The same constitutional amendment that allows taxes to be elective would quickly be interpreted by the Supreme Court to note that non-optional aspects of state building such as defense (under the same logic as conscription) are excluded. You'd get the same bullshit just under the guise of "national security."
Once again fuck your roads and taxes dude.

>>50673281
Alright, how much of a discount do I get if we're not also paying every politician and bureaucrat in a 100,000 mile radius of the road being built?

>>50673006
Yeah, there simply isn't a market incentive to make it easier for customers to patronize businesses, or to make transport more efficient.

>>50673006
I drive extensively in the American North East/ Mid-Atlantic. I have seen no evidence that tax money is used for roads.

>>50673342
this is a *stupid* reply, as if airports are the same travel method as roads, making it okay to have parallel roads. Disgustingly stupid.

>>50673429
There is no monopoly on transportation, and there is no monopoly even on a road transportation. You can't charge $100/km, because people will just use other roads, even at the expense of a longer route.

All in all, the OP-post just contains the cheap bait from a typical statist.

>>50673006
FUCK ROADS
these pieces of useless shit are the reason why you can't walk anywhere to get what you need anymore

>>50673382
THINK OF THE GDP AAAAAAAA I'M CUMMING SO MANY "JOBS"

>>50673237

Pretty much this, majority comes from fuel taxes as well, not income and other taxes which largely go to gibs, not infrastructure.

But if the government didn't provide them, people would still need to get from point A to point B and entrepreneurs would find a way to fill the vacuum. Tolls are a thing. Businesses that build roads could also potentially obtain revenue from a number of sources beyond tolls, such as leasing land along the road to businesses that would benefit from the traffic (gas stations, restaurants, etc.), leasing land along the road for utility right-of-ways (electric, telecommunications, gas pipelines, etc.), leasing land along the road for billboards and advertising, and so on. If a business opens up not immediately off an existing road, it would of course be in their interest to build and maintain a road to the business so their customers can actually get to their business to buy their product or service. POAs and HOAs could pool their resources to maintain roads in residential neighborhoods, which is something a lot of them already do.

Sweden is one example of a country with a largely private road system, 2/3 of their roadways are maintained by private road associations.

>>50673006
>how would we build roads without taxes?
decentralize them.
Centralized power is all a scam as we have seen in basically every country that has ever existed

>>50673382
If roads are so easy to build like that then why don't we have better cheaper roads competing with the federal government?

Also its only due to the govt. subsidizing roads that we have the hellscape sprawl that we do now that lowers the general standard of living and market freedom. Communities aren't walkable, they aren't breathable, to start a business is more expensive due to the need for parking lots etc. If anything we should want far less road construction. Allowing the free market to determine where the roads should go would largely solve that.

>>50673006

>>50673635
Because the Federal government won't let anyone compete with their monopoly? How the fuck is this a question?

>>50673006
>Roads pay for themselves by incentivizing and enabling other businesses which pay the taxes that fund the roads but also turn profits
>If roads were private, they'd generally have to pay for themselves directly through tolls, which disincentivizes usage and restricts the very activities the roads are meant to enable
>Or maybe businesses could get together as a coalition, fund the roads with contractual payments from each other, and raise prices commensurately on their goods and services
Tbh that sounds like taxation with less accountability though

>>50673006

Why do we even need roads? It's 2022 dumbass...

>>50673732
>governmnet
>accountability

>>50673846
Well, ostensibly. Obviously not in practice. But there are positions you can put politicians in where they'll have to capitulate in order to keep up the masquerade, whereas business owners would just scoff because the contract they're beholden to is much less stringent and much more esoteric.

>>50673006
The government prints money to pay for roads. It does not use tax revenue.

>>50673635
Because the government has duped you into thinking the money you are getting paid in is real money. This is what government spending power really is. If the government demands that something gets built, they have the power to print money out of thin air, hand it to you and convince you that that's real money as they make you work for free, so as long as you're able to dupe someone else into thinking that's money.

>>50673918
wrong

While rulers of government own "public" property, their ownership is not secure in the long run, since they may always be defeated in an election or deposed.
Hence government officials will tend to regards themselves as only transitory owners of "public" resources.
While a private owner, secure in his property and its capital value, may plan the use of his resource over a long period of time in the future, the government official must exploit "his" property as quickly as he can, since he has no security of tenure.
— Murray Rothbard, Man, Economy, and the State

If land is not owned by anybody, although legal formalism may call it public property, it is utilized without any regard to the disadvantages resulting. Those who are in a position to appropriate to themselves the returns — lumber and game of the forests, fish of the water areas, and mineral deposits of the subsoil — do not bother about the later effects of their mode of exploitation. For them the erosion of the soil, the depletion of the exhaustible resources and other impairments of the future utilization are external costs not entering into their calculation of input and output. They cut down the trees without any regard for fresh shoots or reforestation. In hunting and fishing they do not shrink from methods preventing the repopulation of the hunting and fishing grounds.
— Ludwig Von Mises, Human Action: Scholar's Edition

why do we still use cars and roads when superior technology has existed for decades

>>50673977
elections aren't real and politicians don't do anything. when have you ever seen a politician run a country, exactly, you haven't. you have no idea what running a country even looks like, nobody does.

>>50673750
This

we can pave the roads with politicans bones

>>50673006
Do you really need roads? Worst case we would revert to natural dirt roads and drive around in Jeeps and ATVs

You can also band together as a local community and raise money that way (as a one time fundraiser) or have a corporation pay for it in return for remaining tax free for 15 years, etc etc. But my first paragraph still stands

how do cars exist without taxes?

how do houses exist without taxes?

how does food exist without taxes?

how did humanity work before the income tax in the early 1900's?

>>50673006
for 1/3 of the price retard

>>50673006
The same way they pay for everything else. Debt and money printing. They are way way way over tax budget. At this point, taxes were just a failed MMT scam to try and keep inflation down which as you can see failed. Now taxes are just a way to keep the peasant class happy and "punish" the rich.

>>50674437
>before the income tax
The classic tax in Europe was 20%.
10% to your local lord, 10% to your local church. It was called tithe.