/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50672657
PhDs have excellent job security and can reliably make 6 figures when they get the foot in the door at biotech/tech

>is post-secondary education a scam
yes, you can literally learn anything for free from your library or online

>>50672682

Yeah and so do nurses.

Depends what your PhD is in. There are some that are in very high demand in the private sector.

>>50672682
cope, plumbers have excellent job security and can reliably make 6 figures once they finish (paid) apprenticeship

>>50672657
absolute cuck mentality
stop looking the world through the prism of what an employer would care about

>>50672657
The correct path is
>Bachelors
>Get position in sector after grad
>Work for 2 years
>Get employer to pay for masters
>Do masters
>Use it to leverage for higher pay/position
>Fulfill contractual requirements for paid masters
>Move to another company for double your pay.

>>50672682
>bragging about making $120k after a decade of higher education
AHHHAHAAAHAHAH

>>50672682
True
>t. PhD currently getting foot in the door in biotech

>>50672715
>>50672731
>>50672767
Yes, lots of other jobs are better for money, especially considering the intelligence of some PhDs. The only real profitable paths for PhDs are to found a startup company using their independent research skills, or join a hedge fund as a quant.

>>50672771
What grade did you get for it Yang?

>>50672726
I have a PhD in statistics, this post is retarded
But yes I agree a PhD in 1730s Art and Political Turmoil in the Early Russian Empire with a focus on Slavery and how it affected supply lines is a waste of money

>>50672833
this would be useful in consulting to tv shows/movies, writers, or the military
you also have to consider that tenured professors get paid a pension

>>50672829
C-. Postdoc needed to make myself marketable

>>50672657
I had an ex friend who grinded 12 years to get a doctorate in poli sci, smartest human being I ever knew, knew everything about everything (didn't just act like it but actually had read everything ever, and very humble). He graduated and discovered that tenure track positions had basically gone extinct while he was getting his doctorate so he is trapped in a psychotic hell of grinding out remote adjunct professorships teaching shitty politics 101 courses online to gender studies cattle. He applied to shit ton of think tanks and consultancies as well but nobody would pay him higher than intern wages. We ended up no longer being friends because I (with no higher education) made 3 million dollars gambling funny money in 2021 and am retired now, while he is in six figures of student debt and and desperately tries to find a job in his profession offering even blue collar wages. He got extremely bitter and antagonistic towards me over the course of 2021 and started accusing me having new friend circles and being obsessed with money and no longer having a moral compass and etc, which was both hilarious and sad because my lifestyle hasn't changed one iota other than quitting my job. He eventually blocked me and I think he is stocking shelves at a Schnuck's now.

>>50672754
This is literally what I did.

>>50673119
larp but still based

>>50672682
I have a BS and MS in biotech and I'm about to make six figures. Getting rejected from PhD programs was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm living the good life while my friends from my master's program are still working 60-80 hours/week just so that their PI can get first author on a paper that they did all the work for. Oh yeah, they're poor as fuck too because stipends don't go far in big cities. Experience > education

>>50672657
yeah, but don't phd holders get a ton of pussy?

>>50672712
That's true, if you are diligent and resourceful enough you can absolutely learn anything for free. However, you can't use that alone to get a job. You can't walk into Goldman Sachs and get an investment banking job when your only credentials are "I read about finance at my community library" or "I watched hundreds of hours of DCF excel video on Youtube". Not denying that your knowledge might be comparable to somebody with a full fledged degree, but it won't help you in the job market.

>>50672796
You don't need a PhD to be a quant anymore. Even places like Jane street no longer give a fuck and go for dudes with bachelor's. If you're good at math, welcome aboard.

>>50673275
You can groom undergrads (risky for your reputation), or if you're charismatic and attractive, your chances are much better with women in your field/adjacent fields. Otherwise it's not that much of a perk.

>>50672657
If you are doing a PhD for the money you are a fool. The ONLY reason to do a PhD is to contribute in a small way to the technological development of humanity. Good pay is a nice side effect but the time/payoff is garbage.

There are a few very niche areas where a PhD can be very good for getting a job, but in most of these areas you are probably smart enough to do whatever the hell you want anyways. Examples being ML/AI, (bio)statistics, computer vision, and optimization (+ some other applied math areas). Biotech is probably the go-to example of a PhD-necessary field, but it's one of very few.

PhD students are regularly exploited and abused, and the entire academy essentially exists on extracting $200k-salary-caliber work and hours out of PhD students being paid $20-30k a year.

Forget entirely the promise of an academic career: you'll grind for years as a postdoc doing the same work for a 50% pay raise only to lose the tenure-track job to a diversity hire. It is a horrible time to be thinking of being a professor if you are not female and/or black/hispanic. Your chances of getting hired, much less getting grants, are roughly zero. I feel bad for Indians, Arabs, and Asians, since they get beat out by diversity hires without even getting the general benefits of being white.

Some things to keep in mind:
>50% of PhD students never finish their program
>PhD students have extremely low levels of job satisfaction
>Abusive professors are common and essentially impossible to fire
>A nontechnical PhD is essentially worthless, both financially and in terms of its value to humanity
>Most smaller disciplines in science are wild goose chases founded on false or downright fabricated research
>Doing a technical PhD is essentially like donating $~300-500k of your net worth
>A tiny minority of the labs do all of the important work in most scientific disciplines

>>50673275
Nobody wants to fuck a scientist.

>t. biotech PhD

>>50672682
not in "biotech" you snivelling larper, all my PhD friends from ivy league/oxbridge etc made 30k a year as postdocs then transitioned to 60k a year in the bay area
the only way to make money is to sell your soul working for drug discovery/patents

>>50673812
They are probably just bad at networking or don't do very marketable research. You have to get an industry internship before you graduate and talk to people from industry. My bachelors friend makes 80k in biotech, 2 years after graduating.

one of my old professors reached out to me to teach after work as an adjunct. 5,500 for a 14-week 3 credit course which would easily be 20hrs/week of my time. academia is straight retarded and needs slave labor to survive.

>>50673953
meanwhile for every associate professor making 50k a year there are three "administrators" doing their nails and posting on facebook for 80-100k

>>50673133
I did this grinded my first million in assets then hard swapped to a comfy government position. I get paid maybe 10% less but i do about half the work required of me in the private sector.

>>50673986
exactly. i am just really confused by their mindset. they are apparently really smart people. why live miserably?

>>50673790
>muh hecking university hires
Chud you could barely finish high school why talk about something you know nothing about?

>>50672657
>Higher education
Yes. To a certain degree most higher education is a scam. It is actually a clever trap so that lazy smart arse work dodging faggots will self identify.
Pol pot was right.

>>50672771
whats ur h-index tho?

>>50672657
Did the guy that banged your girl have a phd

>>50672682
I literally have a bachelor's degree and manage multiple Ph.Ds on my team. They are needless in business and most doctoral employees are spergey autists in front of leadership. All you need is a bachelor's or master's with job experience

>>50674656
>what's your imaginary jerkoff medal score?

>>50674737
What field?

>>50674027
Because "muh life of the mind." Academics still live on the decrepit ideals of a bygone era of the Ivory Tower.

>>50674027
Cerebral narcissism is so cultivated from a young age that it blinds most people.

If you look around at society, everybody is terrified of looking stupid. Stupidity is the new leprosy. So when you offer someone that flashy title that says "I'm so smart", they covet it, even if it is a retarded financial decision.

>>50674027
Most of the ones in medically relevant fields are to some extent motivated by altruism.

>>50674976
>motivated by altruism.
lul

You need to read more about the Jesuits, Jews and Masons. The university is theirs.

>>50674970
This is part of it, but it's really status/class anxiety in a more general sense.
A lot of PhD holders probably could do some lucrative lower-status job like nursing, manual labor or even office admin/HR shit. The problem is that their brains are irrevocably attached to the peripheral trappings of upper class status (using big words, secret knowledge, being an 'authority,' even knowing about shit like history and philosophy) than its actual determinants (which are 1. birth and 2. having lots of money). Most academics are proles LARPing their lives away as members of the cultured elite.

>>50674830
Healthcare Data Science

>>50675218
I'd have more sympathy if they just sucked it up and did Mcwagie shit like the rest of us have to, but they don't. They sneed and screech on twitter about how capitalism fucked them instead of admitting they got scammed.

>>50674737
>master's with job experience
This is the best kind of employee, the kind who's not stuck in theory but still has personal motivation to reach a deeper understanding of the trade.

All executives in my company are masters, none phd

>>50675218
I just wanna contribute to medical development.

>>50673912
Wtf can you do in biotech with a bachelor's degree? Sales? Lmao

>>50672742
I do this hardcore, I have to admit. I only chase professions where I get paid over $200k early on too.

>>50675318
Mass spec

>>50675218
Thanks for the input, champ. However, you'll find I no longer have to subscribe to your notions of 'status' (or anyone else's for that matter). I have an imaginary world in my head that's more important than any of that shit.

You know what's also a scam? Scientific journals. You have to research something important and relevant, then after that you have to pay and grovel to get your shit published and you don't even make a dime from it

>>50672657
Nobody gives a flying fuck about your gay academic degree outside of academia, get a Bachelors and start working in real world.
t. BEng in ECE

>>50675509
The inventor of LEDs was a PhD graduate.

>>50673790
Fuck contributing to any advancement to human technology. They don’t deserve it and will only pervert it for malice. Take a look at this clown world marching to oblivion and tell me that again with a straight face.

scientists confirm, fireworks are racist

the absolute state of modern "science"

>>50675459
>However, you'll find I no longer have to subscribe to your notions of 'status' (or anyone else's for that matter).
Then why are you here responding and defending yourself if you care so little?

>>50675539
no one on /biz/ will ever do anything nearly as important as inventing LEDs, you included.

>>50672657
its not worth it. but it's necessary hazing for midwits if its not hard science

>>50675539
He was an Engineer, not an academic.

>>50674027
they get paid in good boy points
by the time a smart, nerdy kid graduates college they have had 15+ years of their entire sense of self-worth coming from praise from centralized authority figures

this is also why smart people fall for such dipshit normie propaganda - they have been conditioned to get dopamine hits from parroting authority figures

>>50672771
Nice. My crawler just matched your pic to a thesis, Dr. Gerald Fowler.
Nice security clearance too, how's NV these days?

>>50674027
for some people social status is worth more than money.

>>50672731
Plumbers made a median salary of $56,330 in 2020. The best-paid 25 percent made $75,370 that year, while the lowest-paid 25 percent made $42,330.

>>50674027
because most professors only experience one job, from one employee: their university.

They never do multiple interviews, they never move jobs, and when you do one job for 40 years, the outside world will seem scary.

t. used to be in academia for 5 years, see it as a dead end and moved into industry

>>50675973
>people
>status
>pick one

>>50675830
Most PhDs today are aiming for industry.
>>50675784
The ones that are smart and lucky enough to make such achievements makes it worthwhile

>>50675765
>why are you here?
to collect free money.
>why are you responding?
to correct your faulty premise.

>>50675539
If you are talking about the japanese nobel laureate who invented blue LED, he invented the blue LED while working full time in industry with a BS. He submitted his blue LED work to get the PhD.

>>50673275
What are you on about

>>50672657
phd are a reverse iq test. The falsely smart fall for it. Still waiting for a phd to make a major scientific discovery by the way

>>50673328
It depends on the job. You can when it comes to software engineering for example.

>>50674027
Most of the industry work is boring. Absolutely boring, including most of the software/ML stuff. MLops/DevOps.

t. Someone who made it in crypto and started a dual MD/PhD with a focus on ML & Drug Discovery.

>>50674921
>>50674970
>>50675218
>>50675253
Unless you're 14 and going through your edgy phase you have serious brainrot if you believe this shit, get off of 4chan for your own good

>>50676785
cope

>>50675218
All of life is a larp, if you enjoy the larp it's not a waste.

>>50672657
PhDs in STEM generally do well but in most cases no better than those with a masters. Unless a doctoral degree is needed for you job (lawyer, healthcare, psy Doc) it's normally overkill and won't enhance your earning potentially. Plus you end up lumped in with pretentious PhD holders who think they know more than people who have actually been doing the job while they were in school.

>>50676927
The only non-larp way to live life is to stay like a baby for ever. Everything you changed since then was larping that you aren't a helpless naked ape. The true you is hairless, crying and shitting yourself.

I have a PhD in the biomedical field. I went academia but will most likely just go industry. Getting a PhD is worth it in some ways. I wake up when I want, wear what I want, research what I want, and feel like no matter how bad things are I accomplished something with my life. The down side is pay isn’t great, it’s ok but I have student loans so not great, and I am constantly stressed/there always feels like another hoop to jump through. So long story short the best thing about having a PhD is I don’t want to kill myself everyday.

>>50677038
give it time

>>50677234
It’s every other day lol

>>50676528
You are proving yourself wrong just by filling the captcha which trains a deep convolutional neural network. Guess what, Yann LeCun had a PhD. Also when you jerk off to Greta deepfakes, Goodfellow also have a PhD.

>>50672657
Phd is only worth it if you are relatively wealthy to begin with. Medical phd can do research and end up at s startup or pharma giant. Law can get 1 niche legal thing for corporations and gets paid 6 figures to be on call. Scientists at a federal Lan like Argonne or Los Alamos. Feds will pay you well and it works out extremely well. But these all require awful post doc positions and a ton of publications. You are being ground down every semester and if you aren't putting out papers that are highly cited the best you can get is some low level uni position or ops pic.

PhD in biology/tech is worth it only if you into pharma/tech

>>50673119
>while he is in six figures of student debt and and desperately tries to find a job
lol he was your best friend but you choose not to help him. Even if this isn't a larp you should have at least gave him something. I bought my friend a new house and take care of his ass till this very day. SHit friend kys

>>50672657
I was thinking about doing an "EZ" doctorate like a DBA or EdD but then I realized it was a vanity doctorate. I'm already qualified to teach community college, so why bother spending 3 years and $50K on another degree, just to be called "Doctor?"

>>50675734
This was mostly psychology papers, not hard sciences or biology/medicine (which basically is a hard science, the only people who disagree think all bio is ecology, but I digress). Even psychologists recognize that the field has problems and are working to solve it, because the discipline is going to go the same way as phrenology soon.

>>50680971
The only psychology worth anything is the kind where they rely on medical imaging.

>>50672754
>Get position in sector after grad
>Work for 2 years
>Get employer to pay for masters
>Do masters
>Use it to leverage for higher pay/position
>Fulfill contractual requirements for paid masters

outside of finance this usually only works if your dad is some Director

i earn 100k a year, instead of uni i worked at macdonalds and learn software development in my free time
i dont see how a phd could realistically be worth it in any way

>>50672833
That's a pretty fucking cool PhD by name alone

>>50674027
Because that's not how it works retard.
Professors from technical fields are very much valuable, professors delegate as much work as possible to their PhD candidates, in the meantime many actually have companies under their name, are paid to do a bunch of talks to various conferences all around the world, have non-existent schedules, have very stable positions even if they don't produce anything and teach poorly.

Overall their jobs pays less, but they have academic prestige, they usually do what they're passionate about, they avoid all the corporate bullshit like HR, managers and POs, and have good enough schedules to be able to run a company at the same time. They are left in their comfort zones and never expected to work intensively or meet deadlines.


High paying jobs are great but shit like SWE is actual slavery with little to no benefit on the work-life balance side of things.

>>50674656
mine is 11
anyone higher?

>associate's degree in nursing
>hospice nurse in Los Angeles hellhole
>made 84k my first year
>made 104k my second year
>on track to make 130k+ this year

The hours are crazy sometimes but overall pretty cool job except for having to drive to the ghetto several times a week to order pain meds for niggers who are nowhere near dying but qualify for hospice because of COPD which apparently every single nigger has, and they have MediCal. Fuck you, I'm not giving you Somas, stop fucking asking.
Two year degree and a relatively easy board exam got me six figures.

>>50682185
>1 million for house
>deal with liberal democrat politicians that want to kill you
>homeless have more privilege than you
>fires everywhere
>rampant theft and lawlessness
>taxation triples price of everything

No thanks

>>50680971
No, the replication crisis is also a severe problem in hard sciences. There was a landmark project a few years ago that attempted to replicate important studies in cancer biology; most efforts failed. Just this past month a major database of organometallic crystals was found to be full of with fabricated data. Many biology papers contain photoshopped western blots or microscopy images.

Most small to medium-sized scientific fields are in the middle of a replication crisis, psychology is just the one that's realized it first.

>>50680627
I didn't mention this but DBA and EdD and all the rest are truly vanity degrees and are even more worthless than a humanities PhD.

>>50681156
Ironically fMRI and related neuroimaging studies are some of the weakest results in psychology because of shoddy statistical methods and extremely small sample sizes; there's a paper that showed you can get fMRI "signal" from a dead fish. The situation is improving somewhat but it's still overall a pretty weak subdiscipline in psychology. A lot of neuroimaging garbage gets published.

I was toying with the idea of doing a PhD in Systems Engineering. There are online programs with decent schools that wouldn't be too much of a drag on my time because it's KIND OF like a degree mill, but has the backing of some super legitimate schools.

Why would I do this? I'm a lawyer in crypto, I have a Masters in CS, my pay is basically maxed out for where it will be for a while. I'm basically out of upward mobility.

My thoughts on SE is that it could be useful down the line for crypto-related stuff, but mostly I was thinking it could set me up for a CEO/COO type of job posting in tech.

Does it make any sense? I was thinking it made a LITTLE sense, but probably way too risky to spend the time on it. Even these degree mill PhDs would take ~3 years out of my life.

>>50682239
You're not wrong. I fucking hate it here. GF is also an RN finishing her NP program and makes more money than me, and it's still impossible to buy a house right now. We have a son on the way so will probably stay put for another 3-5 years but neither of us will be able to stand this absolute cuck state for any longer than that.

>>50680432
>Even if this isn't a larp you should have at least gave him something.
>just airdrop money to your 'friends' this is how healthy relationships work
I mean half his problem was he considered my money to be illegitimate/dirty so he wouldn't have accepted it anyways. but yeah let's just paper over the fundamental issues in a relationship using hundred dollar bills, nothing fucked has ever come from doing that

>>50672726
PhDs are the ultimate timing the market since it's not what's in demand when you start school but what's in demand 8-10 years later. It's why medicine is the safest one and it's absolutely grueling

It is ironic. But it does seem to be that a lot of people pursing post-grad (outside of professional degrees) are some of the biggest senseless midwits out there.

>>50673328
Very nice take, anon.

>>50672657
Most post graduate is nothing but a pyramid scheme. Get a PhD and most of the time your only realistic option is to get a job as a professor to trick other kids into getting a degree.

>>50674754
Loser basement dweller neet that has zero accomplishments

>>50682119
Mines 15 and climbing. I’m a PhD cand, hoping to finish in November (comp bio)

>>50672712
It is a scam, but its a scam you have to play along with for most professional roles.

>>50682971
One thing I've noticed is the amount of people going back to school to get a second degree. I guess they didn't get into enough debt the first time.

>>50675997
Girl on the right would get it, no cap in my rap

>>50676710
>made it
>wants to be a doctor
Dude why

>>50683223
The only thing money can't buy is longevity.

>>50683131
>Hurr durr you must be a loser if you don't participate in the academic circle jerk
So what's your net worth bro? I'm at a little over $3M myself at 29

Did a PhD in physics from a top 5 and published really well but I regret it. I’m making ~310k but I’m starting from scratch at 31. Academia is a sham. It’s captured the smartest people I know and ruined their lives.

AI PhDs are the only worthwhile ones because you can get mid 6 figures to low 7 figures in FAGMAN R&D orgs

>>50682025
>Professors from technical fields are very much valuable
So valuable that statistically it takes ten of them working as post-docs and assistant professors for years in order to fill one tenured professor spot. If you don't get it, oh well back to assistant professor hell and making $80k a year in a city it takes 6 figs to live in
>in the meantime many actually have companies under their name
Lol in what world? In my aerospace dept maybe 10% of the professors had startups going, and they were utterly fucked, I mean completely fucked through the butt into the skull, by university IP and patent rights
>are paid to do a bunch of talks to various conferences all around the world
Lol again no. MAYBE they have conference registration and travel comped. They are not getting $50k or $100k to speak to a boardroom or anything unless they're chair of Harvard Business School or something
>have non-existent schedules, have very stable positions even if they don't produce anything and teach poorly.
Only things you've said that are accurate
Being a professor WAS a good deal up until the 80s/90s, now unless you're some sort of third world chink being a professor is a shit deal

tbf, I was very bitter of my industry friends after my phd and had trouble finding a job. I felt like I worked my ass off, put out great pubs, and there was no reward.

I got over it, because you obviously can't go back and undo time. But fuck academia! working in industry is so much healthier. I'm just going to have to grind harder.

>>50672657
I’ve a PhD in Physics and two postdocs in top European institutes. A good h-factor for my academic age with papers mostly first authorships in excellent journals, including one article in Science.

It has been literally years that I started applying for positions in my field and they don’t even invite me to interviews. Jews are always getting the jobs.

I put up a profile on LinkedIn finally one year ago to thrust the private sector: I didn’t get contacted by literally any company and I didn’t get a positive reply by any of them when I sent my cv.

On top of it, I know how to program C, C++, Fortran, Perl, Python, JavaScript at excellent levels with work experience in all of them. Literally it feels like my PhD is hiding me from relevant recruiters. I even thought I was blacklisted because of me writing over here?!?

>>50683917
>why third world chinks are professors.

>>50675969
Top fucking jej

>boomer professor browses biz for shitcoins

>>50672657
What's wrong with that? Seems an okay wage for an okay position.

a doctorate in the US is (mostly) a waste of time outside of medicine (even then it can be scammish depending on the field you go into). there's pretty much 1 reason to get a PhD: you actually LOVE technical research in a field and want to spend the rest of your life doing that, reading journals, and writing mundane technical papers. additionally academia in the USA is not only in a state of contraction but the DEI/SJW shit is absolutely out of control, especially with regard to white guys. good luck getting anything better than an adjunct position

unfortunately, though, there's increasingly a large amount of fields which require a master's degree and extensive hours of supervised placement as a baseline to entry. things like education, counseling/social services, business management, nonprofit, and legal fields often require a master's degree merely to get an entry level position. there's very few fields anymore where a bachelor's degree will suffice outside of tech/engineering, and certain trades.

>>50672682
>can reliably make 6 figures
Everyone can reliably make 6 figures. You don't need to spend an extra 4-6 years in school for that

>>50691101
your brain has been annihilated by codemonkey shit. the average american yearly income is 38k