/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50605011
yawn

>>50605011
Link invented a problem and fixed it, ICP solved the one problem no one else could solve.

>>50605011
Does ICP allow HTTP requests? That's all a blockchain needs to solve the "oracle problem"

heed the sneed the token is not need

I really don't understand what's so complicated and hard to solve with link. You need economic guarantees for sure, but link has had 5 years and has not implemented them. It's purely a price feed and is tied at the hip to the shittiest smart contract blockchain that is only good for storing premium nft serial numbers.

Icp is so far ahead in all of their approaches, it takes some time to wrap your head around them. Just one of the things it solves is the oracle problem. It also has a technology path to host chainlink node infrastructure. Icp will take over everything.

>>50605767
basado

>>50605011
>it's
you stupid fucken retarded fuckwit learn some proper english grammar before making anymore retarded threads, are all ICP faggots 3rd graders?

>>50605767
Solving the oracle problem in a decentralised manner has many layers, like an onion. It is not the same as aggregating data from http get requests in a centralized icp data centre

>>50607433
Well go ahead and explain then. Because it seems like that’s exactly what it is.

>>50607567
You actually need a decentralized node network that can post data onto decentralized chains, it's not the same as ICP centralized datacentres aggregating data for their own centralized chain

>>50607411
You must be a grammar nazi

>>50607614
So the only difference is you nitpicking the definition of desensitized?

>>50607411
>proper english grammar
>fucken
fuck off retard

>>50607761
No, because ICP intends to be the settlement layer as well, whereas chainlink doesn't, it will be Ethereum, Arbitrum, Avalanche, Cardano, etc.

>>50605767
>I really don't understand what's so complicated and hard to solve with link.
Clearly

Kleros V2 will run on motoko, be prepared

>>50608182
Yes but when other chains are integrated https requests will be offered up to said chains also. Therefore making link not needed.

>>50607772
Good one dickless

>>50608432
Every link killer that arrives on the block mysteriously seems to fail/never gain traction, ever wonder why that is?

>>50608618
Why are you trying to change the subject?

>>50608594
Cope nig nog

>>50608432
>integrated https requests
... through oracles.

>>50608682
I'm not, but why are you deflecting?

>>50608844
Projection

>>50607761
>desensitized
The absolute state of ICP baggies

Anyways I’m not responding to this troll anymore. It’s obvious that link holders are mad that the tech is progressing and will leave them behind. Farriers became obsolete when the car killed the horse and that’s exactly what is happening to link.

>>50605011

>>50608899
>oracles will leave oracles behind
hmmmmmm

>>50605011
Link is R1a and lame
Icp is R1b and based

>>50607614
Actually the icp approach is to decentralize the feeds across multiple nodes and use consensus to arrive at the correct values. DONs have to be manually setup in Link but it comes for free using built in ICP architecture.

>>50607411
You* stupid fucking* retarded fuckwit,* learn some proper English* grammar before making anymore retarded threads, are all ICP faggots 3rd graders?
maybe you should learn you inbred fuck, it's a board not English class retarded fuck

>>50609258
>the icp approach is to decentralize the feeds across multiple nodes and use consensus to arrive at the correct values
Same as Chainlink.

>>50608857
>no you

>>50609315
you stupid fucken retarded fuckwit learn how to use 4chan dummy, ICP is truly the brainlet coin jesus christ

>>50609345
Icp consensus for http reqs is at the protocol level. Not sure what duct tape chainlink uses for their dons

>>50609738
>Icp consensus for http reqs is at the protocol level.
You mean "the consensus is written to the ICP blockchain"?

Just buy icp niggers its that easy pee poo poopeepee

>>50608777
The fact that no one checked these digits is proof there’s only poojeets in this thread. Kek has spoken

>>50605767
Yea and the Dfinity devs literally demoed yesterday how to grab a price from Coinbase API so it wouldn't be difficult to just grab the prices from a number of APIs and get an avg. price for a given coin and you have a decent oracle already just with that.

>>50605011
The moment they changed their name of Internet Computer (fucking cringe) from Infinity, they lost.

>>50607411
he used the proper spelling of it's as it is. You just justed yourself

>>50609756
Right, prior to writing to the blockchain there needs to be consensus on the price from multiple nodes.

https://thenewstack.io/blockchain-direct-http-requests-via-the-internet-computer/

"As Sommer puts it, “All the nodes in a subnet make the request and only if consensus is successful, meaning at least two-thirds of the replicas agree on the result, then it is replied back to the canister as a result. This allows for a secure call outside, without any external third parties to rely on. Our consensus protocol is flexible enough to allow for such extension.”

>>50611271
>without any external third parties to rely on
You mean ICP's nodes are centralized?

>>50611336
Third party in that context is talking about Chainlink oracles, which are an external entity you need to trust (not native to the L1 itself).

The article I linked gives a good rundown on the shortcomings of the Chainlink model.

So it seems that chainlink set out to solve this decentralized oracle problem, that would be absolutely necessary for integrated defi able to execute smart contracts based on real world data, without relying on any centralized service.

And ICP simply said, well that level of decentralization isn't necessary, any centralized financial institution will be fine with using a centralized price feed which ICP allows you to access directly from the blockchain.

Is this about accurate?

Honestly both of then seem to have relevant technology but I have serious concerns about both dev teams.

>>50611375
>Third party in that context is talking about Chainlink oracles
The fact that Chainlink nodes are third party is a very good thing.
If they weren't, they would be centralized.

>>50611407
Ultimately Chainlink is getting the price feed from somewhere (centralized source). Same as where ICP would get it.

ICP decentralizes this however using replicas that query the same price feed and applying consensus natively in the L1.

Chainlink does something similar, but is an external entity not native to the blockchain that integrates to it, and is not an L1, so it's basically like an external, centralized service that requires trust.

>>50608902
kek at that last one

>>50611489
>chainlink is centralized because it can talk to many blockchains instead of just one

What a non sequitur.

local off-chain computation makes distributed networks infinitely scalable when there are trustless methods of verifying that computation. chainlink is not a blockchain, it is software that allows nodes to receive instructions from any chain and execute local computations, which are then aggregated and reported back to the requester, using a variant of PoS to verify that the result was generated according to instructions. it is more than just an http lookup service

>>50611489
Right but Chainlink doesn't have to rely on one centralized source. It relies on a network of nodes that could potentially query different sources.

So for example, say you have a smart contract that needs to know the weather in Mumbai.
ICP will do replicated queries to the National Weather Service, and accurately and trustlessly aggregate and report that result by accessing the http site.
Link will send a request to the oracle network, multiple oracles will query potentially different websites or data sources and the data will be aggregated and a final answer sent back to the blockchain.

So the ICP way will work if there is a single data source you know is reliable.
If that's not the case Link can still access many sources to reach a consensus.

Complaining about the trustlessness of the oracle layer on Link seems to be pretty much fud as there is a robust system planned to ensure oracle cooperation.
But it also does seem that for 99%+ of real world applications in current year, just accessing an http source is sufficient and you don't have to pay the oracle fee.

Link seems to be more a future necessity for a web3-dominated world that I'm not sure is ever going to exist.

I do not hold either token, just trying to understand it better

>>50611660
I'm not great at explaining things. Ultimately it comes down to - if you were an L1 that can solve the Oracle problem natively, then Chainlink is not needed and the LINK token is not needed.

And if ICP can develop this, than other blockchains can as well.

Relying on an external third party for Oracle data requires trust which is generally a bad thing. L1s are better off figuring out the oracle problem themselves rather than trusting a third party.

>>50611826
>if you were an L1 that can solve the Oracle problem natively, then Chainlink is not needed and the LINK token is not needed
Chainlink nodes will always have a lot more experience and reputation than any oracle that only services a single chain.

>>50611796
>If that's not the case Link can still access many sources to reach a consensus.
There's a way to transform (ignore) variances in the data coming back from sources, so in theory aggregation could be done from multiple sources as well. But this is a good point to double check with the dfinity devs.

>>50611489
What is the difference between ICP oracles and me building a function on the normal web right now that queries a bunch of different weather data together to arrive at a decentralized consensus? Surely these multiple websites such as weather .com need some kind of incentive to provide the truth?

>>50612209
It's just okay because there's still trust require. For example, if the DNS records of those sources are compromised and the APIs replaced with malicious price data then you're still fucked. So a protocol securing billions in value would require a much more robust solution.

Icp is just that much better you fucking morons

>>50612209
Ok, without staking how does Chainlink solve this?
I agree there needs to be some sort of economic incentive, but an insurance protocol of some kind might work just as well for this purpose.

>>50605047
soon 2 more weeks, you can try a working demo
https://53zcu-tiaaa-aaaaa-qaaba-cai.medium03.dfinity.network/

>>50605011
ICP is a scam shilled by retarded braindead curry niggers from India.
Lets have a short reality check here:
ICP has:
0 TVL
0 Users
0 Dapps

Meanwhile Chainlink is the gold standard for Oracles serving thousands of Usecases, used by every Protocol that matters and is currently securing multiple Billions of dollars in TVL.

So kindly kill yourselves already you dumb streetshitting Niggers, your I see Pee shit is going NOWHERE but 0, check the chart and accept this you fucking illiterate imbeciles.
The world doesnt need another centralized Ghostchain.

>>50612929
>TVL is a scam metric that is meaningless retard
> there's 2 million user identities registered retard
> there's over 100 apps retard

i fud my bags too but yours is pathetically terrible
do the entire community and crypto space a favor sell your tokens, setup a webcam, and livestream a rope on 4chan
fuck you

>>50613003
Shut the fuck up shit eater from India.
ICP is a centralized ghostchain doing nothing used by nobody and youe copes wont change that anytime soon.

So please follow your own advice and kys jeetus

>>50612929
GTFO nigger with your link spam. The dapps on ETH that matter all use their native price oracles.
Uniswap v2 (native) Uniswap v3 (native) 1inch (native) Aave (native) Compound (native)

You don't seem to understand that third party price feeds require TRUST. This isn't 2017, chains have evolved. Trustless is the next thing dumb nigger.

>>50613049

>>50611889
Ok, actually it's pretty modular. So an individual canister is deployed on multiple replicas on a subnet to get price feed data from a single source. Consensus is applied to certify that the price data this canister is retrieving is agreed upon by a majority of replicas.

For multiple sources, you can have an aggregator canister that calls these individual oracle canisters that has logic on how to aggregate on multiple sources. It's a canister so the logic would be in one of Rust/WASM/Motoko/Typescript

>>50613352
cool story streetshitter.
and a centralized pajeet ghostchain is trustless?
top kek

ICP is the new BSV and I love it.

>>50613526
OK, so this makes sense- however the difference I'm seeing here, is that the different sources to be queried need to be hard-coded into the ICP canister whereas with link oracles the off-chain interaction is entirely on the oracle side and no specific data feeds need be specified by the user.

So there is this extra level of decentralization in that sources can be dynamic and adaptive, and the stake incentivized oracle system can update to more reliable sources.

For a long term contract for example, maybe a 5 or 10 year contract, there is a very real chance that the website you use for http queries might change its layout so your price feed link breaks and with ICP that could fuck up your smart contract. Whereas chainlink has oracle nodes paid by users for requests that thus have an external cash incentive to keep the oracle software that makes queries up to date and will seamlessly return the data without the contract itself needing to change or be updated.

However for the vast majority of short to medium turn finance contracts you should know exactly what sources you need and how to query them and you wouldn't want to waste the oracle fees.

>>50613635

>>50605011
>what is market cap?

>>50613947

>>50611133
The first time. Yes.
The second time. No.

>>50613932
This probably doesn't exist yet, but proxy canisters should be possible (as ICP can serve as hosting layer as well).

But yes, there needs to be some way to maintain the links to the feeds (and probably other stuff that is done by the entity hosting the chainlink node). The difference would be this maintenance would be done against logic stored in a canister, as opposed to some server process sitting on a raw linux box for Chainlink

>>50609315
You didn't put a period at the end of your sentance; you stupid fucken retarded Fuckwit. Learn some proper English grammar before making anymore retarded threads. Are all ICP faggots 3rd graders?

>>50614035

>>50614180
>sentance

>>50611271
>HTTP response header contains a slightly different timestamp
>ICP gives up
>heh, nothing personnel kid

>>50614180
your low class gentrified establishment is over here sir
>>/reddit/

>>50605767
>>50606991
>>50608359
>>50609178
>>50609258
>>50610179
>>50610610
>>50612740
>>50612751
>>50613003
>>50613352
>>50613858
WAGMI

>>50615549
https://forum.dfinity.org/t/enable-canisters-to-make-http-s-requests/9670/11

>The only additional thing the canister needs to care for is to define a transformation function that is applied to the response by each replica to “cut out” varying information, such as timestamps of request-specific ids or just return a single number of interest, e.g., a price of an asset. The IC replicas then apply this transformation on their respective HTTP(S) response and thereby we have the same consolidated / transformed response to account for variable bits and pieces in the response on each replica that will be fed to consensus

>>50605011
https://vocaroo.com/1lMEh0RWjw8d

>>50613049
I just BTFO's you with facts. None of the fucking top ETH gasburners use chainlink, how does that feel nigger. You're bagholding a coin that 2017 biz bought at $0.08 presale when ETH was still $250.


>ICP is centralized, 99% of the shitcoins rely on centralized web 2 services.
https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-outage-on-june-21-2022/
21 June cloudfare outage crippled every imaginable shitcoin out there except ICP and BTC.
Suck my dick nigger. Have fun holding token for a service that isn't needed.

>>50614060
retarded shitskin doesn’t know that it’s can be used as conjunction and as possessive.
fucking nasty little bug, go back to whatever incompetent brown shithole you come from

>>50605011
I have weekly buys set for both