/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50602239
Bobos got rekt by Jews

Captcha GOY on the first post
You can’t make this shit up

>>50602239
Bobos deserve to get fucked

>>50602239
Bump

honestly i had never thought of it like that its funny and maybe theres some truth to it

(there isn't)

>>50602239
Wouldn't higher rates create less money since money is now "more expensive". Or are these kikes just loaning anything to niggers cuz money printer go brrrrrr? Asking for a friend with a few thousand spy shares who shorts his own positions bcuz clown world and all...

>>50602417
You don’t understand banking
Read picrel

>>50602482
>Reading books
Ok boomer

>>50602239
Shouldn't higher rates still create more deflation? Unless they plan on printing at an even higher rate. I am aware they never stopped printing, but I thought they were tapering it in some way?

>>50602548
You said the same thing as me except not racist and therefore lacking some perspective... a truthful perspective at that.

>>50602462
Higher rates are deflationary in the sense that they suck more money out of the economy and put it into bankers hands.
Higher rates = more banking profits
The inflation comes when those profits get reinvested into the economy
Short term high rates can take money from the economy but bankers always put that money back in some way
They never destroy profits

Think about it from a logical perspective. Where is money created, where does money go.
Yeah high rates lowers the amount of poor people getting loans but most loans are to investment banks and corporations.
Normies make up a tiny % of the real economy
>>50602482
Based rothbardian
Don’t try to help this idiot >>50602417
he is so retarded he didn’t even back up his argument with evidence

>>50602482
that's true, I don't understand banking. But i would liike to, so I browse four channel dot com forward slash business and finance.

Would you take the labor of summarizing some Buzzwords and Bullet Points with Valuable Features to me from the BOok you reference?

If i rate your reply above a 7 I will buy the book, read it, and then post on four channel about it.

>>50602548
Nope

Higher interest rates = more debt

People aren't going to be able to repay it.

>>50602548
>Unless they plan on printing at an even higher rate
ohhh my sweet summer child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmooaFW3r3o

>>50602239
>Higher rates create more money
here's your (You), now kys nigger

>>50602506
Don’t shit on Murray rothbard that book is recommended here a lot for a reason
>>50602548
See this post for explanation or read this
>>50602482
>>50602579
Read above book
>>50602594
Back up your arguments with facts or do you believe what cnbc tells you?
You got jewed

>>50602506
Okay dumbass, go watch Bloomberg for your financial news

>>50602579
He explains banking from the inside at it’s simplest form. Rothbard is considered the god father of anarchocapitalism
I don’t agree with his views of returning to a free banking system but it would be better than what we have now

>>50602594
I’ll be nice because you’re clearly ignorant on money creation. How do you think money is created? Answer honestly

>>50602694
Free banking might work if there was no fractional reserve. 100% reserves won’t be allowed because the Jew loves creating money from nothing. Except Murray, he’s a based Jew

>>50602757
Rothbard is the best. He supported 100 percent backed banking too. All his books on banking are worth a read.

>>50602808
I need his whole collection in my library
Someone here recommended him to me, probably you or another based anon
Here’s my copy

>>50602853
Fuck yeah. Keep spreading the word

>>50602629
I've surprisingly never read rothbard but I am believer in Human Action.

So what exactly will be the the reaction to this?

>>50602995
I’ve never read human action but I have read von mises’ theory of money and credit
Rothbard is a continuation on Ludwig’s theories, he even cites him often. Murray died in the early 2000’s or 90’s I think so he’s a little more modern and easier to understand. His best attribute is his ability to simplify banking. He also rips the modern system to shreds by pointing out how banking worked in other time periods, specifically the late 1800’s before the fed was created. He has a focus on how private and central banks interact

>>50602239
0/10, see me after class

>>50603559
Bobo are you okay?

>>50602239
it all tumbles down

>>50603669
you can’t have massive fiat inflation and long term dips
money finds its level

>>50602239
based economic professor

>>50602239
Why did the bird kill the bird?

>>50603825
>black swan event turned out to be a white swan event
dummies thought higher rates are inflationary but they don’t override the huge fiat inflation we’re experiencing

>>50603857
> dummies thought higher rates are deflationary
sorry fixed it

>>50603650
I like this one

>>50602239
>>50603669
Its just as pic related says, the weakened bobos should and WILL be preyed upon by the angry mumus, that's the way of the world. Im just hoping for the longly theorized universal QOM god candle (ultimate edition)
or as ryoshi calls it, a thursday

>>50602548
>I thought they were tapering
You can’t taper a ponzi

If they taper many banks will not pay interbank rates, many would collapse on inesigibile credits while CBs expire. Since Covid they don’t even have costumers money (0% reserve) so they are pretty much fucked up.

It’s a tickling bomb with 2 possible outcomes: hyperinflation | total economic collapse

>>50604188
Is it not what they want the total collapse so they can introduce new system that WEF been pushing for aka you are now official debt slave on UBI coupons. Destroying banks was one of the goals.

>>50604238
Removing banks and have central banks run the system. More centralization. More focused control. with CBDCs on the way.

>>50602239
>Higher rates create more money.
the absolute state of mumu, so desperate to make ot their brain short curcuit into pure stupid

>>50604188
> You can’t taper a ponzi
this anon understands
>>50604238
some want collapse and some bankers want to keep their golden goose alive. It’s a battle between those two groups
>>50604302
>post pictures of watches on an investment board
kek
op is right
read any economic book retard

>over a decade long bullrun with lowest interest rates ever in the history of man kind.
>midwits think things are suddenly better after not even 3 months of rate rises
>not even winter yet

The idea isn't to flash dump that's too obvious. The idea is that we enter 2 or more years of crabbing with violent dumps and pumps confusing the fuck out of everyone until we reach a point where whales are comfortable to accumulate again.

We aren't even close to being there yet.. We're currently in the denial phase.

When you look at some of the complete and utter retards like cathie wood who control and easily lose billions of dollars is it really any surprise the market is pumping off the back of the most dire economic and geopolitical news in decades?

We are in peak denial.

>>50604377
>thinks asset prices will deflate while the money supply inflates exponentially
they just approved even more govt spending and continue printing more money every year
you have to be dumb as fuck to believe what you wrote
get them to stop printing more money from nothing if you want a long term crash
hint: you cant

>>50604377
he thinks he can fight the money printers
go broke bobo

>>50602239
No.
FAR more money is created when rates are low and everyone and their gam gam is taking out loans left and right due to the cheap credit.
When a loan is taken out at the bank, the principal amount of the loan is generally created out of thin air. More accurately, they take it out of everyone else's savings and tell those people it's still there. That's what fractional reserve banking is.
There is interest due on every dollar and thus not enough currency to pay back all debt in the system. If new money is not created every iteration to pay off the debts of the previous cycle, the currency in circulation decreases and we have a deflationary collapse if left unchecked.

>>50602718
I'm not that anon, but I am a smoothbrained faggot.

How is money created? I've read one whole book on econ stuff and it was that Niall Ferguson one.

>>50602239
>>50602577
No one has ever explained it this way to me before but it makes more sense than “higher interest rates are deflationary” fud
>>50602853
I need to get this book

>>50604463
our posts overlapped, see my above post. the summary is via fractional reserve banking at the private-bank level that you and I use, and at a higher level, the Fed can also create new money by "Quantitative Easing" (buying treasuries or other debt with created money)

>>50602239
richard werner gives an excellent evidence based argument to this effect

>>50604462
Wrong faggot
What you say would be correct if your normie family made up the majority of the money supply
Interbank loans make up most of the money supply and they don’t deny each other loans unless they become toxic like Lehman in 08
>>50604463
Money is created when a bank decides to give out a loan
Simple as
0% reserve rates mean banks don’t need anything except the decision to create a loan
There’s thousands of smaller banks, mostly investment firms, that are owned by big banks and that’s where most money is created
>>50604486
This idiot thinks most money is created when his grandma needs a car or house loan. I literally can’t make his stupidity up
The truth is black rock gets loans whenever they want everyday and the have way more assets than all of our families put together
People like this have no idea how the real economy works

>>50602577
>Think about it from a logical perspective. Where is money created, where does money go. Yeah high rates lowers the amount of poor people getting loans but most loans are to investment banks and corporations. Normies make up a tiny % of the real economy

I have a pretty low faith in humanity and have a hard time seeing investments banks and corporations as being much more than a big group of poor normies, bringing their poor normie ideologies and biases into a broader organization. "Professionals" are just a suit and a smile, putting on the air of confidence to gain your trust. Conditions that make mom and pop go under are not the conditions these professionals fare any better; they just have the resources and the reputation to fake it longer. Everyone is drunk on debt that is getting harder to repay, everyone is going to get squeezed if rates continue to rise.

>>50604551
retard i'm using a simple ass example to explain what happens on much larger scales. from a math perspective, institutions do the exact same thing. way to miss the entire point.

>>50604573
in a fiat system there is debt and currency, and new currency is created when new debt is created. you can add layers of complexity but you can't change this.

>>50604462
This guy gets it.
The interest is NOT created out of thin air. Money to pay the higher interest rates on goy loans has to come from money that's already in circulation, i.e. company profits.
If the debtorcucks can't handle the cash flow, then new loans are not taken. We are at the point where debtcucks cannot roll over existing debts at higher interest rates.

>>50604554
Black rock, black stone, vanguard, Berkshire Hathaway, major corporations like Microsoft, google and Apple do not pay the same interest rates as we do

Banks can literally create loans for the smaller banks that they own at any rate they want
You think they charge themselves or banks they own a majority stake in enough interest to put themselves out of business?

Don’t be dense

>>50604573
Get butt fucked
He put you in your place with your stupid grandma analogy
>>50604580
Same point the other anon made
>>50604590
Based

>>50604486
>>50604589
I trust richard werner and murray rothbard over you two dumbfucks
>>50604551
great points anon, fuck his grammy

>>50604590
>have money in left pocket
>move it to right pocket
>???
>profit

>>50604573
Your example was flawed and I pointed out why. You didn’t respond to the major flaw in your argument, which your grandma doesn’t matter. Interbank lending blows all household lending out of the water
Read a book about banking because you clearly don’t know shit

>>50602384
This. Too ruthless and too much smug shit-talking, to go unfucked.

>>50604639
It often times works that way
The repealing of glass/stegall made it okay for lending banks to own investment banks back in the 90’s

>>50604669
we truly are fucked, economically
better to just buy assets and ride the inflation wave

>>50604694
Long term, yes

ITT: bobos get an economics lesson and then shut the fuck up

>Bank N takes an overnight loan from Bank IGGER @ 2% interest.
Where does Bank N get the extra 2% to give to Bank IGGER?

>>50604790
From buying equities usually
They invest

If you notice we are moving from printed money to printed synth food. If you want to get rich invest in printers. One thing they cant print and that is hard resources that are going to back the new global currencies. If you follow the trend it is not hard to see the future.

>>50604371
It seems like the US vs EU bankers. FED may actually be trying to save your asses from hyperinflation and curbs.

>>50604489
werner was talking about productive loan retard, not loan to buy assets which covid QE is, pure asset buying and bubble creating loan
i find this retardation to be rampant among mumus, they also think asset inflation has correlation with consumer inflation
so during covid banks are lending to pump the market, and somehow this makes muh meat and muh milk prices go up?
permabulls are retard before but they've complete mental breakdown right now, mumu are experiencing mass psychosis

>>50605018
>implying the low interest rate loans leading to the 2008, 2001, and pre soviet collapse bubbles were "productive" loans
>implying the resulting high rates didn't lead to periods of higher real growth
idk what to tell you friend

>>50605109
total psychosis, even using 2008 great financial crash to support mumu theory, mumu doesn't make sense anymore
how to profit? invest in mental hospital maybe? kek

>>50604821
ok but what about when equities are down 20% like they are now. Either way you're implying Bank N has to take from its operating capital in order to pay Bank IGGER the 2% interest in the overnight loan.

How is this inflationary?

>>50605151
what even is your argument?

werner wants loan/credit creation to be directed for productivity, to pay employee and r&d
guess what? there's already even wage inflation in tech, we could call this wage bubble, this is also why onlyfans thots, twitch streamers and insta influencers earn millions
the world is in total everything bubble, even wage especially tech is in bubble
guess what? tech giants slow/freeze hiring, it popped, BAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA
now if i need to tell you something obvious like stock and real estate is in the biggest bubble in history then you need to take lithium instead of posting here

listen to me fuckface mumu, all money is debt, the more money the more indebted, the bigger the bubble the deeper the crash, never the other way around

>>50605178
mumu is confused, they can't differentiate asset inflation and consumer inflation, they can't differentiate productive loan and leverage loan
quite sad really, if only they weren't so smug, now i lose all sympathy they can get wiped out kek

>>50602577
so then mid and long term, higher interest rates create more supply (the FED prints the interest out of thin air -much like UST did before it collapsed) therefore it's actually inflationary?

>>50605018
There’s no difference in the loans
Money is like water, it always finds its level
You can’t make a loan and have it permanently stay in any sector
It eventually bleeds into different parts of the economy
It’s not about mumu and bobos or being a permabull or pernabear
Stop being focused on biz buzzwords
It’s about time frames
Yeah we see dips and crashes but they’re short term when so much money is being created
Assets and consumer goods are related because they all pump based on supply inflation
You can’t pump only assets and keep that money from causing consumer goods to increase it’s impossible
>>50605165
They make money shorting too, they make money buying bonds. They’re professional traders they don’t buy and hold
>>50605179
>the market is irrational
>Tech and real estate are a bubble
Based on what metrics and value system?
based on what your personal idea is of value?
You don’t decide what’s over valued, the market does
We had two huge dips over the last 2 years, Covid and now
The reason they are pumping is because they keep printing more money
It’s not complicated
>>50605192
Why are you so angry and playing silly biz games?
You sound like a child
High inflation creates more volatility and that’s what experiencing but long term it makes assets go up
Look at the charts for proof

>>50605237
Asset and consumer goods are related
Most equities are companies and commodities are goods sold by those companies

Stop thinking bobo and mumu, they don’t matter.
Biz has you thinking stocks are sports teams. It’s fucked up your head

just one small little bull trap pump makes mumu this excited, mumu gets slaughtered while bobo merely hibernates

>>50605165
>inflationary
as stupid as it sounds, they can't differentiate consumer inflation with asset inflation

>>50605179
>tech giants slow/freeze hiring
you realize that cutting deadweight results in productivity increases right?

>>50605296
>They’re professional traders
Right. So they use their income from operations to pay the interest on the overnight interbank loan. That money did not get printed into existence.
If the overnight rate is 10% then Bank N has to give up more of their trading profits. The money supply does not expand.
So how is this inflationary?

>>50605237
Productive loans are those made by companies right?
The major public companies are mostly owned by investment banks
Do you think Apple is getting denied “productive” loans because interest rates are up?
You’re differentiating between these loans but the market doesn’t care because eventually it all filters to consumer goods
They shut down the whole world for months during COVID which should have lowered the cost of goods because productive loans came to a stand still but fiat inflation was increased and now were dealing with price inflation of goods because of money supply inflation

The money supply matters and you need a loss of productivity for asset and goods to crash in price if money supply increases
>>50605333
There’s no difference
It’s all price inflation just different sectors
You can differentiate between assets and goods but there always connected
>>50605363
It’s inflationary because bank loans create more money between other banks
Yeah that comes from the market but it’s not leaving the market because they reinvest and spend it
Banks never stop giving each other loans from nothing
Also it seems like you’re thinking all interbank loans are repo market loans overnight

>>50605292
Exactly

>>50605422
billionaire doesn't liquidate their stocks to buy billions worth of milk and meat
are you 19? this is absolute pure unadultered retardation

>>50605422
Checked, but the "Interbank Loans" I understand to be the Interbank lending market, where banks net transactions day-to-day and write loans to each other generally less than 1 week and only to manage liquidity requirements. The loans are paid off with interest and the interest comes from the borrower's operating capital. Loan opened and closed. Money created and destroyed. Even though it happens for trillions of $ each day, since the loans are paid off this doesn't expand the money supply.

You seem to be talking about some jewish interbank meme scheme that creates infinite money and I want to know more about this.

>>50602274
>GOY 8 MA BUYS

>>50605489
I never said that
You’re playing bobo vs mumu and letting your emotions bias your opinion

When asset prices increase, profit is taken. Some of that goes to homes, some goes to commodities like metals, some filters into raised wages, some into bonuses for executives the executives have families who spend it

You can’t keep money only in assets or only consumer goods
All these things are connected

>>50605489
His age must be lower than that, he still even doesn't know how economy works. Even in crypto, you can see lots of Solana degens getting liquidated after a massive dump. But they can still cope with the current market condition.

>>50605535
NO
leverage loan is provided by banks and the clients even traded using banks account, IT NEVER LEAVES THE MARKET
second, i made 200k profit one day, i didn't sell and buy 20,000 portion of mcdonalds meal, get it? i still eat 2 times a day? get it? no matter how rich i get from asset it won't increase my demand for consumption, ever, you fucking get it? i'm embarrassed to explain this absolute basic thing and to share a board with you

>>50605516
You’re talking about the repo market
Those day to day or weekly loans are often extended indefinitely unless the banks credit rating gets nuked like Lehman in 08

Also private banks never destroy money, the Fed has even taken those profits and used them for other things, though they have stated they have destroyed the interest collected from liquidity injections into the repo market but that’s not what the private banks do when lending to each other
I don’t trust the fed anyway, they’re not very transparent

>>50602239
>trying this hard to spread misinformation
For anyone genuinely curious, think of it this way: The raising of fed fund rates alone doesn't turn an inflationary environment into a deflationary one. The fact is that the raises so far are miniscule in comparison to what they would have to be to actually bring inflation back down to where normies don't lose their minds. Currently, if you look at ONLY the fed fund rates, you would say that inflation should be slowed by this. The problem is that fed fund rates are not the only factor. After the debt market started to melt down (check 10 year yield on US treasuries) around June 13th, the ECB has engaged in an unlimited bond buying program to control their yields. You can bet your ass the Fed is doing the same. No real people are going out and buying 10 year treasuries that have real negative rates right now.
It goes without saying that UNLIMITED bond buying from the central banks across the world is BIGLY inflationary. Not to mention that the fractional reserve requirements for banks is still at zero percent (where it was moved after the lockdown shitshow in early 2020). The market did not move up after the 75 basis point move because "raising rates are inflationary" but because they are not deflationary enough to actually have an effect (at least not in the face of all the other inflationary programs still going on).
I hope this helps.

>>50605582
What do they do with the profit?

Do they destroy it? Do they reinvest it all?
Or do they reinvest some and buy a new home, yacht, and car? Who made that home, yacht and car, and what do they do with the extra money made from selling them to a stock broker? Buy more commodities like wood, leather, engines to make more homes, yachts and cars.
You can’t keep leverage loans from leaving assets

Your fucking retarded

>>50605646
All true but op never said markets went up because rates raised. His point is that they’re long term inflationary, which is also true. Higher treasury bill rates, are money creation and in that sense op is correct
The Fed is buying bonds that they raised the rates on and them buying the bonds is more inflationary than the rates rising
You’re correct about that but it’s not as simple as you make it out to be
The economy is too complicated and multifaceted to explain all the dynamics in a paragraph

>>50605534
What are you buying freak? Aren't you considering having some Honeyland Genesis eggs? They are giving away scooters and pizza, but mostly a WL for their land minting. It feels like Solana is going to have another blue chip project. Kek.

>>50605715
Fuck off shitcoiner, this thread isn’t for you

>>50605582
>i made 200k profit one day

>>50605646
You make the same overall point as op but differ on the details
> Not to mention that the fractional reserve requirements for banks is still at zero percent
This is the key. If the banks aren’t required to have any reserves and they loan money to other banks they own and corporations they don’t own, then they create money from literally nothing
That is a license to print money. Do we trust banks to not do this ad infinitum?

>>50605753
Congratulations. No one cares.
If you don’t buy real goods like metals, real estate, or a lambo and keep gambling then you’re retarded
Everyone takes profit eventually

>>50605799
kek poorfag cope
mumus are coping poorfags

>I told you guys fed fund rate raises are inflationary
Holy shit.
This has to be the stupidest single line I've read online for at least half a year.

It's so stupid it's not even good bait.
So fucking dumb I can't even laugh about it.
Just shocked how dumb a single comment can be.

>>50605812
I’m not a mumu, I sold most of my stack in November and December. Why are you obsessed with cartoons.

>>50605834
ok you're not a mumu, just a poorfag
kek

>>50605679
>Higher treasury bill rates
Rates are lower because the central banks are engaged in yield curve control. If they weren't and allowed the market to function freely, the rates would shoot through the roof.

>>50605679
>The Fed is buying bonds that they raised the rates on
The Fed funds rate is not the rate of yield on government debt.

>>50602239
Then why are they called loans?

>>50605832
>anon's face when he realizes the entire '17 run was fueled by interest hikes

>>50605820
This guy has posted 13 times in this thread about mumu and bobos.
I think he’s lost it. Today has really fucked over bobos minds
>>50605753
Why did you black out all the details that don’t identify you?
What did you short today that made you $200k?

mumus, you're so far from making it you have no fucking idea

>>50605860
But they’re correlated
“ US Treasury yield and Fed policy rates have a positive correlation”
The fed controls t bond yields by how much they buy or sell
The problem is the fed is buying most tbonds

>>50605899
Post your account fag, and don’t black out your realized and unrealized gains you larping bobo
>I made $200k today shorting while everything went up
Fuck off

>>50605649
this anon knows what he’s talking about
>>50605753
you never answered his questions you just pivoted to a black screen claiming you’re rich

>>50605937
it simply is not from today, mumu
>the absolute IQ state of mumu
>the absolute state of logical thinking of mumu

>>50605951
at some point there's no way to reach that level of retardation
i get tired texting, text is cheap
long text don't compensate for real life success
kek mumu
i win every argument, all the time

>>50605832
history is on op’s side
this anon makes a great point
>>50605868

It’s not just 2017 either. The late 70’s and early 80’s had record inflation and commodities and equities sky rocketed in the US

>>50605753
> i made 200k profit one day
>>50605964
> it simply is not from today
that state of this larper

>>50605987
like i said, all mumu have mental breakdown

>>50605593
>often extended indefinitely
Perhaps, but the point of the loan is to manage liquidity requirements, which are based on demand deposits for private sector cucks. Sure, banks can trade with the loaned money, but the interest rate has no impact on this. They are still paying interest with money that already exists in circulation. So how do higher rates lead to an expansion of the money supply?

The Fed claims that they remit the interest on securities held to the Treasury. 2021 they gave $107.4 billion to Yellen.
This is where the jewish meme scheme seems to get REALLY jewy.

>Fed makes income via interest payments on treasury securities they hold.
>Fed pays banks IOER / IORB using NOT printed money, but money from their income.
>Fed gives the leftovers back to the treasury.
So essentially US Taxpayercucks give banks their money through the fed.
This is happening regardless of rates % and doesn't change the fact that higher rates will lead to contracting money supply, as it is just a factor of how flat do the banks what the private sector's penises to become.

sources:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20220114a.htm
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/ben-bernanke/2016/02/16/the-feds-interest-payments-to-banks/
You actually can't find any sources for how much money the Fed gives banks in IOER / IORB.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RESBALNS
>discontinued
Total cost of the US taxpayer for interest on reserves for previous years
>2016 = $15 billion
>2017 = $30 billion
>2018 = $35 billion
>2019 = $39 billion

>>50602239
>Higher rates create more money.
So why have the FED rate hikes led to extreme deleveraging and falling asset prices?
Holy shit you're stupid. Unbeliavable.
You don't understand anything. Bobos got fucked yesterday because the rate hikes are soon to be over and the markets are forward looking and pricing in the potential slowdown of raises or even rate cuts.

>>50605996
You’re glossing over the key factor
0% reserve requirements and interbank lending between private banks
Citi bank owns over 100 banks, BOA, Wells Fargo, and Morgan Chase too.
They pay each other higher interest from money they created just to pay each other/themselves
Have you ever looked into the savings and loans scandals?
Those banks were caught lying before 0% reserves and glass-steagall was repealed.
You really think they aren’t moving money from the left hand to pay the right gand now that it’s legal?

>>50606083
How do you explain asset bubbles forming when rates rise?
Higher rates increase money velocity and bank profits, encouraging banks to lend to each other
As rates increase banks realize they make more from loans and they give more loans to banks they own
Simple as.
Low rates during the 2010’s saw slower money velocity and less inflation vs the 60’s and 70’s

>>50604463
>How is money created?
Like this.
https://youtu.be/EC0G7pY4wRE
https://youtu.be/15OAKXxGJPg

>>50606090
I gloss over it because I don't see the relation between shady jewish interbank meme schemes and the Fed Funds rate.
>I told you guys fed fund rate raises are inflationary.
t. OP
>>50602239
They can pay each other higher interest regardless of the Fed Funds rate. How is the Fed even involved at all in Citibank's financial jewery with its own subsidiaries?

>>50606138
>and they give more loans to banks they own
and where do the banks they own get the money to pay the interest to papa bank?

>>50602239
Nah, higher rates means less ppl borrow so less money creation.
Lower rates means more borrowers so more credit aka credit creation aka money created.
Simple math

>>50606138
>meanwhile, in the real world

>>50604377
>2 or more years
the next halving is in less than that

>>50606145
The banks set their interbank rates based on the fed fund rate

A simpler way to look at it is higher rates increase money velocity and the cost of housing, college, health care and cars
Literally the most expensive things you buy
If housing goes up that increases inflation for most people including renters
The price of wages go up in response and the price of goods goes up to pay those wages
>>50606179
That chart proved op’s point
Look at 60’s and 70’s increasing rates led to inflationary prices
Lower rates in the 2010 era led to record low inflation
>>50606170
People always need to borrow
Interest rates don’t matter to most, they borrow to meet costs not because of interest rates
Most people buy a home when they need a house, not because interest rates are low
I get your reasoning but it’s a fallacy and not true in most real world situations

>>50605996
Corporations have to pay more to finance debt?
They pass that cost to you in the form of price increases.
They don’t just take it on the chin or cut spending. Rates are going up now and there’s a labor shortage not job shortage
The proof is in the pudding
Higher rates and car prices skyrocketed also at the same time and most car buyers buy a car when they need a new one, not because interest rates are low
Higher rates on debt effect or biggest purchases most

>>50605646
>No real people are going out and buying 10 year treasuries that have real negative rates right now.
I don't think that's true. In the current environment where every asset is falling, dollar is king because it is still the best option for money looking for yields. ANY yield, doesn't matter if it's negative as it still beats holding stocks or anything else. Even commodities are falling now, so there's nothing else outside of cash and bonds.

>>50606265
Also everything bought on credit cards just increased in price too
What percent of the population is in debt? Their cost of servicing new debts just went up.
>>50606274
>he thinks normies are buying bonds
Get real. Everyone here thinks you’re wrong on that. I don’t care what their position is
The bond percentages would need to go up a lot more to get people selling equities for bonds

>>50606227
>Lower rates in the 2010 era led to record low inflation
If you want to believe whatever the government tells you, even when it conflicts with publicly available information and the history that we have witnessed first-hand, then I can't help you.

>>50602239
The fed fund rate is inflationary because when given a free pass to raise 100bps they raised 75 bps anyway; projecting that they are guaranteed not to raise them enough to fight inflation.

>>50606329
>>50606227
And this is not to mention the differing rates of inflation in asset prices and consumer goods.
The stock market has gone practically straight up.

>>50606329
You’re chart doesn’t show an increase in inflation after 2010
Fed raises rates and the first articles released today are a list of the 5 things that are getting more expensive
Companies increase margins when rates go up but demand for consumer goods is already lower than it was pre Covid levels
The fed knows what it’s doing
Not to mention most inflation right now is caused by the Ukraine war and Russian sanctions increasing gas and grain world wide. Increasing the cost of debt now may lower demand but it won’t help supply chain issues, it’s only going to increase those and make it harder on indebted firms which will raise prices
You never addressed the raising cost of homes, cars, and college from increased debt. Literally the things people spend the most on. Add energy and food to that and how could you not think these rate rises won’t raise costs for everyone
Keep believing what cnbc feeds you because you’re full shit already

>>50606227
>The banks set their interbank rates based on the fed fund rate

You niggers are so incoherent. If your premise that banking is inflationary is based on interbank scams described by this faggot
>>50604590
>Banks can literally create loans for the smaller banks that they own at any rate they want
then Fed Funds rates are completely irrelevant. It's assumed that banks won't lend for less interest than the Fed Funds rate, but your right hand pays the left hand scheme doesn't care about fed finds at all.

>>50606481
you are a bot and/or lack reading comprehension

>>50606481
>Not to mention most inflation right now is caused by the Ukraine war and Russian sanctions
>Keep believing what cnbc feeds you
jfc lol

From the St. Louis fed
“The key Neo-Fisherian principle is that central banks can increase inflation by increasing their nominal interest rate
targets—an idea that may seem radical at first blush, as central bankers typically believe that cutting interest rates increases inflation.

A well-established empirical regularity, and a key component of essentially all mainstream macroeconomic theories, is the Fisher effect—a positive relationship between the nominal interest rate and inflation. The Fisher relationship, named for Irving Fisher, is readily discernible in the data. Look at Figure 1, for example, which is a scatter plot of the inflation rate (the four-quarter percentage change in the personal consumption deflator—the Fed's chosen measure of inflation) vs. the fed funds rate for the period 1954-2015. In Figure 1, a positively sloped line would be the best fit to the points in the scatter plot, indicating that inflation tends to rise as the fed funds rate rises.”
Charts don’t lie but central bankers like to ignore this

>>50606574
>he doesn’t think increased gas and grain prices are a major factor in inflation
The Jews love you

>>50606531
I’m sorry banking is complicated and multi factored
That’s how economics work

>>50606656
cont

“But, what if we turn this idea on its head, and we think of the causation running from the nominal interest rate targeted by the central bank to inflation? This, basically, is what Neo-Fisherism is all about. Neo-Fisherism says, consistent with what we see in Figure 1, that if the central bank wants inflation to go up, it should increase its nominal interest rate target, rather than decrease it, as conventional central banking wisdom would dictate. If the central bank wants inflation to go down, then it should decrease the nominal interest rate target.

But how would this work? To simplify, think of a world in which there is perfect certainty and where everyone knows what future inflation will be. Then, the nominal interest rate R can be expressed as

R = r + π,

where r is the real (inflation-adjusted) rate of interest and π is future inflation. Then, suppose that the central bank increases the nominal interest rate R by raising its nominal interest rate target by 1 percent and uses its tools (intervention in financial markets) to sustain this forever. What happens? Typically, we think of central bank policy as affecting real economic activity—employment, unemployment, gross domestic product, for example—through its effects on the real interest rate r. But, as is widely accepted by macroeconomists, these effects dissipate in the long run. So, after a long period of time, the increase in the nominal interest rate will have no effect on r and will be reflected only in a one-for-one increase in the inflation rate, π. In other words, in the long run, the only effect of the nominal interest rate on inflation comes through the Fisher effect; so, if the nominal interest rate went up by 1 percent, so should the inflation rate—in the long run.“

>>50606656
>>50606666
>>50606676
If you are actually a human. then that is very sad. The amount of non sequiturs and inconsistencies in your own posts is so high it's impossible to not notice. You will never convince sentient people like this.

>>50606758
Keep your Keynesian koolaid
I don’t think your reading comprehension is capable of understanding what I’m saying

You are saying the same thing that central banks have always said but economists have come over to the neofisherian model and that facts back it up
You acted like inflation was increasing from 2010-2015 and then posted a chart that shows it staying even during that same time period
You make my points for me

>>50606758
If you find inconsistencies
Then list them
Fucking retard

>>50606801
>You acted like inflation was increasing from 2010-2015
you have zero reading comprehension

>>50606862
>not my reading comprehension, you’re reading comprehension
I’m still waiting for you to point out the inconsistencies in what I said
Banker cuckk

>>50606574
Am I the only one who cringes when they read fags write lol?
We use kek here if you need to write that
Go back 2 Reddit, fag

>>50606925
> lol
#1 sign he’s a queer

>>50606656
this actually makes a lot of sense. you can say what you want but economists can’t explain this away. the correlation is too significant

>>50606814
You haven't explained a valid mechanism by which higher fed funds rates lead to higher profits from interbank lending scams. There is no relation if fed funds rates are ignored. There is no money supply expansion if borrowers are forced to pay interest from their existing capital. So I guess you're dropping this argument.

Neo-Fisherism copypasta is just explaining the Fed's reaction to consoomer price inflation, a LAGGING indicator.

>>50606982
>PCE for previous month increases
>Fed increases rate in response
>data points are in the same month
>omg look a correlation!

>>50607010
Where did they say fed funds rates were ignored?

You guys take everything to the extreme but it’s obvious that many here don’t want traditional bankers to be wrong about inflation even when the traditional narrative doesn’t fit any of the results

>>50607036
Doesn’t explain the rising inflation that always accompanies rising rates
You can act like rising rates are deflationary but it goes against everything we know about markets and historical evidence
You’re really surprised that central bankers are lying to you about higher rates being deflationary?
Some of us aren’t so stupid

>>50607010
higher rates lead to higher banking profits, It’s the interbanking loans with 0% reserves that lead to banking profits, nowhere did I see him say that higher rates led to higher banking profits. unless I missed something

>>50602239
saying shit like this pisses off the permabears and banker shills
>>50606574
>>50607010
fags like this

>>50605753
larping hard

>>50606656
it doesn’t matter how many charts you post or how much evidence you have. some of these people have a lot invested emotionally in believing the traditional worldview put forward by main stream media talking heads and they will fight you no matter what

>>50606656
>>50606727
neo-fischerian theory? never heard of it but I like the supporting evidence cited

>>50604152
Based

>>50602239
bobos get the rope tonight
>>50603669
boss mumu

>>50605868
QE was still ongoing at that point, wasn't it?

>>50606656
Perhaps there is a duality working here depending on how the economy operates.
In a speculative economy where the interest rates are artificially low and debt-financed asset bubbles are formed, an interest rate hike leads to disinflation or deflation even, provided the economic crises is big enough.
On the other hand what you are argueing for might be true in a real industrial economy where banks are loaning to real businesses that produce goods, not just speculate on asset prices.

>>50602577

it is depressing that people are taking you seriously

banks themselves borrow money from the fed and middleman it to everyone else, ergo expensive debt, less liquidity

>>50602239
High interest rates only work when the capital is accumulating. When the market are not saturated. Because basically the high interest rate loan is reimbursed with money coming from other high interest rate loans. If there is not growth, those high interest loans cannot be reimbursed, thus create bankrupcy in cascade.
That's why when markets are saturated, the only possible solution for rates are to be low. Simply because companies couldn't reimburse the loans, if they cannot sell their production. Production dictates the rates, not the other way round.

>>50609094
that's not how it works. they update their liabilities with the loan amount associated with an account