/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50403035
You can do anything with computers. Devices are a million times faster than 20 years ago. But webdevs are still just trying to find tricky ways to shove ads in people's faces. KY5

>>50403062

It was what surprised me when i got into webdev. It definitely felt like we still have to work with protocols and things that are so old but kinda just used and adapted. However thats also what makes me realise its harder to be a good web developer than other types of programming imo. Just easier to pock it up and be average.

I wonder when we’ll get a revolution in web development? Either way i do nit see why some autistic programmers doing other things look down on it. As a web dev now i feel envy that most other programers have a stable working environment. Something they take for granted.

>>50403035
backend development is maximum comfy
fuck UI, that shit is too tedious

>>50403035
Because every single modern website is awful. They're too slow to load, hard to operate, try to turn their users into their product via tracking, and are as often just broken in a way that you can't use core features without stupid workarounds. That's just scratching the surface with what the user sees. On the back end there have been some major changes to search algorithms that make sites show the popular shit before what actually fits your search terms best.

>>50403233
That’s because everyone is demanding more and more from technology as we go through time but web based stuff is still primitive and hasn’t really changed fundamentally.
There has been untold fundamental evolution for most other areas of programming. It’s definitely possible to build good stable web appa but its hard. It takes an extremely talented web dev to do this consistently. Harder than other areas of programming imo, but its easier to hit the ground running with average poop

just programmers salty that web dev is joining the high salary club lmao

>>50403035
installing a bunch of 3rd party javascript frameworks named off the starbucks menu isnt programming

>>50403394

“CSS is not real programming” is something i read often. Yeah true and I understand the thoughts but it doesnt change the fact it is challenging when you actually do something more than a simple website. I know its mostly frontend which plenty of people hate but i find backend and hard languages like python way easier and less exhausting to work with. I can see WHY people who are very good at web dev get paid a lot.

If you enjoy doing things with Python for example its not hard to rack up experience and get good with it

>>50403035
javascript clusterfuck

>>50403468
t. never used node
NGMI

>>50403494
Node is a single thread piece of shit. It doesn't even handle asynchronous exceptions natively, everything is singleton, managing packages is a hell

Everything related to Javascript is a mess

>>50403525

Thats the entire point you mong. It makes life harder. Nice for other programmers to have such stable and straightforward dev environments. This is why web dev can be difficult and harder to be good at, and why it pays well.

If its a joy to work in a stable and straightforward dev environment its easy to rack up experience and get good.

>>50403494
???? that's why it's a clusterfuck

>>50403097
>It definitely felt like we still have to work with protocols and things that are so old but kinda just used and adapted.
You are a webdev, not a network guy. Stop being pretentious and like those things matter to your shit JS code.

>>50403431
You don't want programmers designing the aesthetics of your site. That's the job of designers.
Or rather that's why webdev is a misnomer as you fags are more designers than doing programming.

>>50403544
No it's not. It's just terrible and there's nothing good about it

>>50403808

Its not 2005 you retard. You have no idea what you are talking about

>>50403035
Webdev above average competence? Lmao

Your hated because webdev is piss easy with languages like JS that basically allow anything bad you could imagine, and packages like isNumber with 20 dependencies arent doing the case any better, thats why webdevs are generally seen as incompetent, further there are SO much people calling themselves webdevs that did a 1 day bootcamp you just know they wont produce anything good

>>50403035
Web dev is a cesspool with crap tooling, crap practices, and crap projects. Nothing is interesting. You're not solving anything new, and using basic design patterns is seen as magic in the field. Getting a CS degree and going into webshit is like becoming a doctor and going to work as a school nurse.
90% of web developers could be replaced with a basic WordPress install and a $20 theme. Almost all their work is pointless, but done because the people running most companies are retards.

you write shit code, simple as
i can do your job, you can't do mine

>>50404052
What do you code

they mad we dont give a fuck about all the gay computer shit that comes with software

>>50403184
UI is pretty fucking easy once you get the hang of it, and most of the time you won't really make your components from scratch anyway but use some UI lib like material and cusomize it. Backend work is extremely boring and you don't really have anything to show for it

>>50404052
I work as a UI/UX designer and working with "muh full stack" devs is a pain in the ass. Most of them don't understand shit about basic UI principles and have no clue how to create reusable and coherent components that follow the design guidelines across all devices.
Talented front end devs are worth every penny.

>>50403035
because a webdev with 6 months experience can make more than C++ developer with more than a decade of experience

Adminchad just stopping by to dab on virgin devs.

>>50405306
That's what happens when clueless managers make decisions they shouldn't be making. Blaming a webdev for piss poor UX is retarded.

Because you’re the people building the panopticon, on top of that you guys invented fucking capital-A Agile
You’ve ruined the world and programming with the most cringe normie ESG shit imaginable

>>50403035
I am a lifelong programmer and webdev.

Web developers make use of the most unsophisticated tools that the industry has ever seen. Because everybody on Earth uses a web browser, and because there is no standardized browser scripting language besides JavaScript, the majority of programmers and 100% of web developers will know JavaScript.

JavaScript was basically conjured up in the 1990s and it is the laziest, shittiest language to ever exist. It is basically impossible to write code wrong in JavaScript.

There are no types. Lifetimes are ludicrously simple. Asynchronous code (i.e. remote APIs) are very accessible to even retards.

The problem is, if you learn JavaScript you don't really understand how computers work. You don't know how to manage memory. You don't know how to typecast. So when you try to use another language, you think they are overcomplicated and not worth the effort. You bring all your bad practices with you.

That is why JavaScript became a backend programming language. These retards who can't or won't learn how to do anything the right way then made JavaScript a replacement for existing programming languages for all sorts of programs. Now, their 1990s browser scripting language can and is used for everything.

TL;DR: Webdevs don't know how computers work and only write what is required for a program to 'work', so they are the least educated and laziest developers around. They are also overwhelmingly non-white.

>>50403035
Mostly because every retard and their moms want to join a css bootcamp and get paid six figures

>>50403035
is OP still here?
not gonna read the whole thread but pls gibs web dev tips
im gonna have to pigeonhole myself into web dev because its basically all i have left since nobodys hiring solidity jobs anymore

>>50405618
>That is why JavaScript became a backend programming language.
What? I know about Node.js ofc but Javascript literally runs in your browser, it is a client-side language. Honestly it's both, while I kind of get where you're coming from I don't know how you can say it's a backend programming language.

>>50406278
>nobodys hiring solidity jobs anymore
o fuck, for real? My dream is to be a comfy solidity golum

>>50406278
Just wait, keep working on solidity through crypto winter, maybe do a few crypto start ups on top of a webdev job.
Next bullrun you'll have the experience to make bank.
Solidity devs were getting poached for 200k+ all bullrun

>>50406278

Was anyone every hiring for solidity?
We’re years off of that. Good to be experienced now and treat it as pet projects.

>>50406361
only have cash to last a year so ive gotta find something before the next bull run
all i know is intermediate js and enough react to make some simple dapp front ends
really want to pivot to something that isnt front end
>>50406389
im in chicago and i have email alerts for local ethereum and bitcoin jobs and saw maybe 1 or 2 local job postings per week during the bull market. now nothing.

>>50406477

Isnt Web3 and solidity etc meant to be quite difficult compared to regular web dev?

Interested because i want to start learning web3 hardcore soon. Been into Crypto since mt gox days but never needed to learn it cause already made money from investing anyway.
Chainlink is almost ready to pull the industry up so im thinking of spending 6-12 months hardcore learning

Is a ruby bootcamp a meme? Someone close to me is about to do it and I don't want to be a cunt and talk her out of it without actually having a good reason.

>>50406514
>Isnt Web3 and solidity etc meant to be quite difficult compared to regular web dev?
I guess but ive also spent the past 5 years autistically playing around with ethereum so the crypto side of things is almost second nature
my problem is that i know CS, know the web, know programming fundamentals, just dont know any web dev libraries and never worked at a real company before so dont really know what their expectations are

chainlink is what inspired me to get into solidity in 2020 too. i figured if LINK and smart contracts are gonna bail me out of poverty, i should at least know how to write them
good luck fren, check out patrick collins on youtube he has a lot of chainlink dev tutorials

>>50406566

I heard ruby is getting less relevant. No idea if it matters for a junior tho

>>50406568

Hey im the opposite lol. Im just learning web dev but have very basic CS background, more into hardware only as i dropped out after that section.
Do you think it’s possible for me to self teach the CS gaps when i move on to solidity?

>>50406612
yes for sure. college was a scam and i could have learned everything i know on youtube in less time
the fundamentals are very important in solidity and the EVM. youre gonna be playing around with hex, bits, and bytes. managing gas consumption and using the correct data types and structures is super important as well. so ya definitely find some CS lectures before you jump in

>>50406650

Nice. Appreciate the words. Not easy to find advice on dlt. Regular programmers foam at the mouth and autistic screech about it and how much they hate it.

I started teaching myself a few months ago, and maybe im just noob but i find dev pretty interesting so far and actually quite enjoyable even if some material is dry. I look forward to learning and building more every day. Currently at it full time, even on weekends.
I bet its a pretty good feeling getting a full circle of all the crypto shit once you learn it and go from passive investor to active participator.

In web3 app development, most complexity comes from React with Solidity part being relatively simple in comparison (doesn't mean you can become good at it in a month)

If you wanna pivot away from front end, php and laravel is always a good option, but what matters the most is what interesets you

>>50406699
best of luck fren
have you started any of your own projects yet? or still in tutorial hell
doing your own thing is where the fun really begins. even if its something easy.
when i do tutorials its a drag and i can never stay focused, but when i have my own side project to work on, i find myself alt+tabing out of vidya with friends to throw an extra line into my project while there was any bit of down time because it was so fun

>>50406738

Im not in tutorial hell. Im doing the odin project and breezing through it. Almost done. Not wasting time with youtube and codes adamy and anything passive, unless absolutely necessary(learning cs fundamentals, maybe Patrick collins stuff i guess). Gonna build some shit and just start working from documentation directly next for new languages etc.

My first app plan is to make my own trading view style platform. Not charting but price data etc. maybe some news feeds for relevant stocks etc. i think i will learn a shit load from trying it.

>>50403353
You're missing the point. Turning even the most basic website functionality into "web apps" instead of just having basic text, links, and pictures is retarded.

>>50406759
very nice, youll make it anon

>>50404048
This.

>>50404048
95% of people dont care about solving new and interesting problems, they just want to get paid, and certain companies pay their webshit devs a lot.

>>50403035
>I started doing webdev after mobile a couple years ago and i have no idea why they get hated on.
I've worked at places with web products and places with compiled products. The real answer is a lot of people that only do compiled clients for example just don't understand the skills needed to step out of their little world.

>>50406298
Node.js is just JavaScript. They made it backend because they didn't want to learn another programming language.

>>50406721
>In web3 app development, most complexity comes from React
But React isn't part of web3, it's just a front-end/framework you can use to interact with smart contracts. It could be replaced with anything, really.

>>50406989
Yeah that's my point, Javascript isn't really a backend programming language

>>50406958

Havent been at this long but im getting a sense already that devs that work in those environments get off sucking their own cocks about building their own toolkits or compilers and its why they hate web development?
I guess its harder to feel like a l337 hax0r as a web dev for them

>>50403097
>I wonder when we’ll get a revolution in web development?
nigga what the fuck do you think crypto is for

>>50407012
Correct, and unless you've been doing Cobalt for the last 40 years you'd know the most popular backend development language right now is JS.

webdev jobs where?

>>50407086
for webshit, everything else is java

im a web dev. been doin it for 10 years. sometimes i like it, othertimes im miserable wishing i could go back and do something else. my only hope is to make a somewhat profitable SaaS where i can work part time somewhere else or freelance.

also clients subconsciously feel disdain toward web devs. they treat us like dogs. car mechanics get respect and are greeted warmly. web devs are just monkey idiots to them. basically "i can pay $25 for a website, why the fuck am i paying you five figures? im going to squeeze every last drop out of you". it's exhausting.

>>50407173
>5 figures

>>50407116
Java for phones, JS does web. Java is absolute shit and only retard faggots use it.

>>50407012
True, but in practice, React has won and is the web3 standard. You won't get a job in Solidity without also being a decent React dev and also knowing some backend.

>>50407201
you are probably terminally retarded if you can't comprehend that 90% of companies use java. that or you just started your first webshit tutorial last week.

>>50407173
I've also noticed contempt when trying to freelance, most people do not value websites because they're intangible. It might be better to work for a design firm so you can focus on building shit, and let the billing department square up with the snakes.

>>50403035
>websevs
>>50403097
>i do nit see
>>50403353
>web appa
>its hard
That's why.

>>50403035

I'm going into game design and i gotta say I'm struggling with the discrete math part. Creative ideas come easily to me but it's discouraging when it feels like I have to start from square 1 with all the trial and error involved over and over again.
I'm still gonna make it bros.

>>50403525
Depends what you're doing. I found node to be the easiest for me because I can share a lot of code between the front and backend. Isomorphic code in typescript makes your code pretty neat and makes you think about the full architecture of the project across server, website and mobile and any other scripts and tooling you might have and works well with small or large monorepos

>>50403035
Being a fullstack web dev, including cloud stuff and devops and a bit of design ability, is like having unlimited power. You can pretty much start a saas company on your own if you want

>>50408496

What does "Isomorphic" mean here?

Also, I can't NGINX and tying websites together under the same url. Cut my no-SQL databases into partitions, this is my last resortttt.

Also, if anyone has code questions or discussion, please feel free. It's easier than studying for another AWS cert.

>>50408544

In theory, in practice, when you get there, your soul return type is void or Task.

> chad real programmers talk about how shit webdev is bright and early in the morning, in between reps in their home gym
> virgin codecamp faggots waddle in later in the day as they roll out of bed from a long time of playing video games and masturbating with “how I get job” spam
Many such cases

>>50404040
>packages like isNumber
The fuck, no built-in isNumber function in JS?

>>50403035
Ok Jarvis, print his last project's dependency tree

>>50408932

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Number/isInteger

>>50408987

Right, this is what makes webdev a complete clusterfuck. We had under 15 npm packages and it was my pride and joy.

Then we got asked to pull in components with 120 npm dependencies.

>>50405306
This hits home. Damn, I miss the 2000s comfy 3-column layout.

>>50406514
>Interested because i want to start learning web3 hardcore soon
https://internetcomputer.org/
Learn this one. All of the dapps code (front end and back end) can be deployed fully on the blockchain

>>50403035
The Brave browser and other privacy apps are going to reshape the way the entire web looks. Hope web developers are getting on board.

>>50409197
Shoo shoo shitcoin shill. This is a bear market your kind are not welcome here.

>>50409197

Or, you can just learn WebAssembly https://webassembly.org/roadmap/ because no one in the space cares about ICP. In fact, no one cares about Web Assembly.

>>50409181

https://www.lingscars.com/
https://www.craigslist.org/

are holding down the line.

>>50409219

Can you shill this a little better?

>>50403035
learn a real language or kys
read SICP
install gentoo
retard faggot OP

>>50403035
its one of the easiest least stressful dev jobs but also makes good money
>>50403097
>However thats also what makes me realise its harder to be a good web developer than other types of programming imo
no, not really

>>50409307
>Can you shill this a little better?

Nope. If you don't understand already you'll just be a late adapter, no shame in that.

>>50403062
That's one of the many things that can be done on the web, it's a shame most boomers and wannabe cool devs think web is such a trashy industry when they literly rely on it all of their lives

>>50409083
>Right, this is what makes webdev a complete clusterfuck. We had under 15 npm packages and it was my pride and joy.
>Then we got asked to pull in components with 120 npm dependencies.
that's not just a webdev problem, it's a software engineering problem in general.

>>50409320

You don't need to push it, it eventually hits people. It's all fun and games until you realize that all cloud services are programmatically accessed through the shell. Or that you need to understand subnets and IP at a root level to connect to on-prem VPNs from the cloud. Or the reason you JavaScript variable doesn't change is because it's a value vs a pointer type, or that it was stored in a closure, etc.

>>50409338

Weak.

>>50409449

I disagree. First of all, any Sprint/.NET packages have been around for ages so they are stable. Second of all, the frameworks have a lot of built in stuff - you don't necessarily need a moment.js equivalent or a library to deep copy a json object.

So for an API, you need something like:

> Your REST framework
> Your ORM
> Your Auth system
> Your Unit/Integration / Mock framework

...and that's about it. Then the hyper-specific things like your SMTP library or your PDF generator are super isolated and most importantly DON'T HAVE PEER DEPENDENCIES.

Vanilla JS is shit but Typescript makes JS tolerable.

Fullstack JS engineers are the norm at startups because the startups want to hire bootcamp grads and not train them in multiple languages.

>>50406930
It's okay to be hired as a school nurse. Just don't act like you're some hot shot surgeon.

P.S. If someone can explain Microsoft Active Directory to me, I would be much obliged.

I get what Okta and OAuth do. I get what RBAC on AWS/Azure/GCP does, etc, but Microsoft AD is this magical identity service that makes no fucking sense to me.

Where is it hosted?

What is it, does it just let you store un / pwd / roles for users?

How is it connected to emails?

Does it have some magical SMTP server built in?

What would you use it for?

>>50409449
Yes, dependency hell does exist in software engineering, but certain ecosystems make it FAR worse by having a readily available package manager that makes adding new dependencies frictionless, which is actually a disadvantage in disguise
You know how fucking hard it is to add a dependency for a non-toy CMake project? Can likely take days of an experienced programmer’s time. Granted, CMake is an extreme example, but compare that to the time it takes to add a dependency to a Python package.
Now ask yourself, how many new dependencies will the C++ team be tempted to add versus the Python team?

>>50409716
I’ve done a bit of AD hacking training for my job (which has nothing to do with my job, but my company thinks that “security training” must imply “cybersecurity training”), and my understanding is that AD is really one giant way to create various schemas for how all your objects can interact with one another
So authorization and authorization are certainly part of it, but the real meat is determining what your objects are in the first place, their organization into domains, and the interconnection of different domains via trust

>>50403035
deffo good front end devs are in very high demand, and you can make just as much money as other areas of programming. Front end is just so tedious and the types of problems you solve are so boring imo, nothing like what programmers typically want to deal with. That's also why a lot of front end devs don't have computer science backgrounds, you don't need to have that kind of problem solving ability. Anyway, if you like it who cares what anyone thinks desu, live your life.

>>50409937

Meh. I think I am just going to continue ignoring the shit out of it. I keep getting asked to implement it, but then it magically goes to another team before I start. For some reason I really dread it. Seems like some legacy bullshit, but also comes up everywhere, all the time.

Studying for AWS Cloud Architect now and it's so many topics I have a surface understanding of, but taking a deep dive would take weeks. Frustrates me that I am just doing it for the piece of paper without learning shit though.

anons, I'm a PHP dev but I have been looking at Golang lately, what's /biz's opinion on Golang?

>>50410241

We shit on PHP every chance we get. Goog like GoLang obviously, don't see it much in the flyover states.

>>50403035
Web developers are like
The dentist of the Medical Industry
You are literally a doctor but you are not hence the hate

>>50403035
Being a developer is a gift atm because these guys can actually build the dapps for a blockchain in any fucking programming languages and get royalties for life time.

>>50404048
>90% of web developers could be replaced with a basic WordPress install and a $20 theme.
Anon, that is what webdevs are paid to do. Thought you'd be wise to that!
>>50405383
ding ding ding, queue the disgruntled programmers who are pissed that they could be living on easy street but instead choose to suffer
>>50405388
Huh? Do you really think a self-taunt pedantic webbed doesn't admin his own servers? We aren't all diversity hires.
>>50405618
You can build WASM web apps in C# now, actually pretty exciting to see this going forward. Check our Blazor. Also, CS101 is not as complicated as you seem to think it is, anyone who had built and debugged a computer over the years can pick up CS fundamentals. You're fucking seething tho, I like it.
>>50406361
If someone can learn solidity, I don't see any reason not to pick up webdev and integrate web3 skills into that stack. Even front end devs who could hook up metamask to their site were getting poached, there are a lot of niches outside of just writing contracts.
>>50407012
Afaik, no other common web language has a web3 framework, JS does.
>>50409307
based
>>50409655
it's okay to enjoy web dev and make 6figs too, I'll let the "real" programmers have all the glory.
>>50410000
>so tedious and the types of problems you solve are so boring
Can you give an example? Like updating something old or migrating data? Because front end dev seems completely braindead easy to me.


Also, for web3 ppl, don't sleep on Cairo/Rust.

>>50411830
That seems to be interesting. May I know the name of the project desu?

>>50409346
Who else is doing anything else? Especially in the front end?

We are just seeing worse clones of desktop software that used to work, and still would be better off as a plain HTML form.

>>50412730
Sure happy to help anon.It's called the QANplaform and it's a quantum resistant hybrid blockchain.

>>50404932
I just couldn't be doing with the subjective side of it.
> writes something that works
>> anon could yo move that button a bit to the left and make it a deeper blue
fuck that

>>50405383
bullshit

Because the internet was a mistake and programming was probably meant to be confined to at most schizos like terry and his autism projects.
>but muh web 3 solidity
no one gives a shit about this its just a money printer for money printing. Other then ransomware blockchain is useless crap and you know it. All we need is at most atari 2600 computing power for small purposes and we should be pursuing space travel, faster commuting technology, nuclear physics not hosting monkey pictures or metaverse toy shit.

>>50403035
I do webdev and I hate it. I usually try to isolate myself on the back-end and guarantee the features that are requested, make automated tests for everything and overall deliver good software.
However, I unfortunately understand a lot of the front-end shit and contractors know it. So, a lot of times I'm requested to code review front-end code. It's a huge mess. Imagine the most insane, not linted (I mean automatically linted), not typed, 1500 lines of code for a single login page. Unfortunately, I have to tell them their code is shit. Most of the times now, I'm suggesting to either rewrite it in typescript, assuming some automated quality control such as eslint, or rewrite it in Yew which uses Rust. I'm yet to see one attempt the Rust alternative. They don't want good and reliable code, they want to work in a completely fucked up code base because it is "easier to deliver". Fuck these retards.

Most of the time, they are the developers with near to none Computer Science background.
Words that I heard when dealing with these scum:

>SOLID principles? What is that?
>I don't like C++ because it's too outdated. I prefer python or javascript, much more reliable
>Big O notation? The fuck is that? Dude just trust me this code is super fast, I've tested it on my machine
>What is graph? You mean graphQL? Never used it
>UML? why would make some squares instead of coding it? This shit is useless
>Bro just install this npm package and it will do all the work! You don't need to worry about this "tree dependency" stuff, yarn handles it for you!
>A state diagram? Never heard of it
>No, I'm not familiar with a finite automata. Can you explain it to me real quick? I need to get some task done

Assholes. They jump over all the basics and get employed by HR roasties. I hate 99% of tech compaines. Thank god I can properly filter them in my own company.

>>50414271

Im self teaching. Not from a CS background. Anything you’d recommend i learn in terms of these principals for web dev?

>>50411983
>Anon, that is what webdevs are paid to do. Thought you'd be wise to that!
It isn't because you have to use PHP for any customization and PHP isn't hip enough for code camp webdevs.
But if you're making 6 fig doing trivial PHP for retarded SMBs then that's pretty based. It's almost like scamming.

>>50411830
You're right anon. I keep wondering how tasking it was for developers on privacy protocols.

>>50405279
And I am sure that you do UI design great. But nkt a programmer.
And that's where there should be a line, programmers do programmers job, designers do designers job, no half-assed webdev that sucks at doing everything.

>>50414271
Based seething cs chud. Picked up a nice few topics to research from your little rant.

>>50403424
spbp

>>50403062
Depends where you work. Webdevs at my company are just working on adding features to the website for our clients to manage their stuff. Not every webdev works for a digital magazine.

>seething cs students realising that self learning youtube chad can get a job just copy and pasting from stack overflow

>>50414486
(I'm answering you from a different device so my id might chage)

Just don't jump directly to javascript for fucks sake. Learn C. Learn memory management. Understand the procedural paradigm of C. Learn pointers. Learn data structures and code them from scratch in C. Code a linked list, a graph. Make djikistra algorithm. At least you have to know this stuff exists, not necessarily implement it. But implemeting it does help to understand. If just any of the retards I came across knew those things existed and what they are used for I would be a more relaxed man.

After C, learn some OOP language and some functional paradigm language. Java (OOP) is industry standard. Haskell is really good for a functional programming language. Elixir is another very useful one.

If you are going to webdev, understand the protocols, the network layers. How the internet ACTUALLY works. What is tcp, udp, what does the network layer do, what does the application layer do. There is so much in the basics. CS is a really enormous field.

>>50415376
I answered some other topics to another anon that you might also want to research: Networking. It can get very autistic.

>>50415110
Now that you mention it, I recently came across a web app for a privacy protocol, and considering the quality, I'm sure the devs spent a lot of time on it.

>>50415110
Now that you mention it, I recently came across a web app for a privacy protocol, and considering the quality, I'm sure the devs spent a lot of time on it.

>>50415975
Also, learn git from day 1 and start building a portfolio on github. All my lecture notes ans personal projects are on github. Is very convenient for getting a job later. I jumped over the interview process in all startups because of it. Never working in one again ever though.

>>50416270
Startups will hire anyone that's not saying anything

so whats ur recommendation? what programing language should i learn to become a rea' 'programer'

thinking about join data science bootcamp, is it worth it?