/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50335662
They aren't. They're in your terms and conditions when you signed up for your citizenship. You did read the terms and conditions right? Just like how Celsius and Voyager "taking" your money via halting withdrawals isn't theft

>>50335662
nobody will do anything about it

>>50335662
You make money thanks to the infrastructure provided by the government. You pay a share of your income to keep the infrastructure up to date on top of other things such as security, healthcare, transport, etc.

>>50335807
why cant I just pay money to the companies building and maintaining infrastructure, security, healthcare, etc...? That way I could actually only pay for stuff I use

>>50335721
>>50335807
You fellas glow

>buys a slice of society
>wants to walk out of the store and not pay
paying taxes is not theft, not paying taxes is theft
i'm glad i could clear that up for you

>>50335662
yes. what are you gonna do about it ?
bomb an IRS building ?
they'll just build a bigger more expensive one

>>50335885
Being this dense

>>50335866
how do those companies ensure and enforce that you pay what you use?

>>50335662
The government defines theft through the court system.

>>50335662
You're using public infrastructure doing your work from home code monkey job so you need to pay the government 40% of your salary as a compensation. Sounds fair and makes sense to me desu

Yes, taxes are theft. All governments larger than a small tribal group are basically just organized crime groups that have achieved a local monopoly on violence. Any welfare programs they run are just robbing Peter to pay Paul to support them. Infrastructure investments are usually aimed at increasing the amount of wealth that is available to steal, alongside of course rewarding supporters of the government with contracts.

>>50335662
this is why being a burden of the state is redpilled. i have a legitimate schizobux friend. he's poor as hell and only gets like $1500 a month between SSI disability and food stamps, but it's still better than suffering the humiliation of wageslavery and the tax collection shakedown under penalty of imprisonment or death.

>>50335807
majority of what u listed is in a terrible state cause they pocket my money.

>>50335807
>security
like police with no specific duty to protect you?
>healthcare
oh, you mean $150/month health insurance plans with an $8000 deductible.... which is funded by the private market.
>transport
the non-existent buses and trains? oh, you must means the pothole-covered roads that i drive on maybe 20 miles a week with my 3000 pound car while 60,000 pound semi trucks driving 2000 miles a week pay the same tax as me. what's fair is fair, i suppose.

>>50336266
>burgershart

>>50335662
You seem to laboring under the delusion that you are free, you are not free, everyone belongs to at least on group, there are people that don't pay taxes the same way you do in central africa, you would not like to live in a place like that, but if you want to try you are free to do so. You are the property of the state. You should be thankful your masters let you keep the greater part of the goods and no longer deflower your partner after marriage before you have the opportunity. This delusional thinking you are experiencing is due to a lack of historical context, I suggest the collection the history of civilization.

>>50335662

If tax collection constitutes aggression, then anyone doing it or assisting in the effort or benefiting from the proceeds thereof is a criminal. This is quite analogous to current law which prosecutes co-conspirators. While I am not holding out "current law" as some sort of gold-standard of reasonableness that we must always accept, on the other hand I think it's plausible to use it to show that once we have come to the conclusion that taxation is theft

>>50335662
Because they have a special moral authority to define what theft is
>but I don't follow the religious doctrines of Statism-
Doesn't matter.
>but I'll go to hell for serving a false god and making the world a worse pla-
Doesn't matter.

>>50335662
Because you are playing the game stupid. The government is the one managing the monetary policy. Its like a sheep asking why the farmer shaves his ass butt naked every summer, because you are part of the system, and the moment everyone stops paying, your money would go straight to zero and be worthless

>>50335662
It's not theft, it's more like robbery.

>>50335807
That if
Nfrastructure is paid in full

>>50335662
It’s even worse than that, they steal your money and demand that you pay them in a fiat currency that they choose how much it should be worth
Contrary to what people think, you’re not required to be paid in USD or exchange goods for USD, but you are required to give the government USD based on how much they think you’re worth, and they get to decide that amount

>>50335807
>property tax
So what about if I own things but I’m not making a profit? Daddy gov will take it from me if I don’t pay up

Kids, kids, kids, you can all seeth all you want, but it took LITERALLY hundreds of years to develop and implement the infrastructure that your countries have, if you think a snotty runny nose cunt, or a group of them can do better. Your just delusional. And you have another thing coming.

>>50335953
You literally can’t buy anything, you are only renting as long as property tax exists.
>yeah but gov doesn’t property tax my car!
Where you gonna park it?

>>50335662
bootlicking niggers will tell you it's part of living in a society, but they're wrong. it is theft.

>>50335743
Unfortunately true. We're conditioned to expect others to help fix the problem.

>>50336570
I pay property tax on my fucking car because my city demand it
Does my city pay for the roads? No, the state does, and any money they spend on the local roads comes from the state. Does my city secure the gas supply? No, the federal government does. Yet the city still taxes my car every year, despite how little they’re actually involved in the funding of the transportation system, solely because they can

>>50336606
>buy house
>need to pay a constant stream of money to keep it in good condition
>complain that you are only renting because there are consistent expenses

>I will literally get thrown into jail by state-sanctioned thugs if I refuse to give them my hard-earned money

you mean be given a FREE 5-YEAR vacation in a SECURE, WELL- CONSTRUCTED building with FREE-food, TELEVISION, and an overall quality of life you could NEVER achieve by yourself with your disgusting SKINNYFAT frame?

>>50336702
>buy land
>live in log cabin you upkeep yourself
>live off food you grow yourself
>robber baron comes from IRS demanding you pay him for his services
You find this acceptable?

>>50336737
>live in log cabin
>gubberment reduces the risk that randomly roaming thugs don't kill and take it from you
>don't pay the gubberment mafia protection fee

>>50336786
Do you realize how stupid you sound? The government officials ARE the thugs threatening to kill you and take what you have. You think I’m afraid of Jamal when I have 2A and live 100 miles from the city?

>>50336853
>he thinks jamal is his biggest issue if the government were to vanish

>>50336853

>>50336893
>he thinks I live in the city with city problems
>he thinks 100% of property tax goes into defense
>he thinks people shouldn’t be able to opt out and not be protected
Can’t wait until retards like you force us all to have Amazon prime subscriptions whether we use it or not because of the obvious societal benefit

>>50336893
> Nehpotep, stop with your crazy conspiracy theories
> Of course the Pharoah’s prayers are the reason the Nile floods every year
> We would starve to death if the Pharoah didn’t tax us in exchange for his prayers
> The priests all say so

>>50336922
>he thinks city problems won't affect him in the case of total governmental collapse
>he thinks defense is the only aspect of government spending contributing towards societal stability
>he thinks he can just "opt out" from all these benefits as if they won't still indirectly & massively contribute to his safety

>Can’t wait until retards like you force us all to have Amazon prime subscriptions whether we use it or not because of the obvious societal benefit
>he thinks massive corporations controlling key infrastructure is preferable to governments controlling key infrastructure

>>50336922
Related:
>Yes daddy government, use my tax dollars to kidnap and brainwash me!!! YESS GOVERN ME HARDER

>>50335662
They are theft but you're going to sit there and take it anyway. Seethe. Cope. Dilate.

>>50336978
>DADDY GOVERNMENT PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY AND BRAINWASH MY CHILDREN WITH LIBERAL PROPAGANDA
>NO DADDY I DONT WANT TO OPT OUT!!!

>>50336960
>he thinks "pharaoh" is spelled "pharoah"

>>50336853

I'm seriously asking, if the government are the baddies, why places in africa where the government has failed people don't just rise up and built utopia? IG Yemen and Somalia? Or I don't know, an more recent even, let's say Afghanistan. Why don't people built dream utopia in Afghanistan? What is stopping the companies that develop infrastructure to go to Afghanistan?

>>50336978
You answered him but not me
Why shouldn’t we give the Pharaoh his taxes in exchange for his flooding of the Nile?

>>50337020
>he thinks examples prove a universal

>>50335807
I hate asians so much its unreal bros

>>50337031
>why doesn’t this happen when Niggers and sand niggers?
>>50337024
>resorts to spellcheck when he has no argument

>>50336001
Via a contract.
>>50336786
>>gubberment reduces the risk that randomly roaming thugs don't kill and take it from you
Reality: the police force spend 90% of their effort on enforcing petty traffic crimes opposed to more important violent crimes because it is safer, easier, and they can extort more money from you.
A private security firm has an incentive to keep it's voluntarily paying customers safe and provide a good service, that is to to stay in business.

>>50337030
>he thinks his analogy is relevant, accurate and clever

>>50337048
>he thinks no examples proves a universal

>>50337074
who enforces that contract?

>>50337077
Answer him bootlicking faggot. Or do you only do what daddy gov tells you to?

>>50337074
>he thinks he will get a unique reply instead of simply being linked to a prior post addressing his argument
>>50336978

>>50337077
Then it should be a real simple analogy to answer, shouldn’t it be?

>>50335662
i wonder what the world would look like if they got to choose where their tax money was spent.
ive no issue with giving something back, i recognise theres a communal benefit to paying niggers not to be criminals etc but id like a say in what % of it goes where.

>>50337102
>he thinks the pharoahohohahaha guy is worthy of a reply

>>50337124
Seems your loosely structured argument has run its course

Over a trillion goes into the Social Security Ponzi every year

>>50337071
It doesn't have government, it's exactly what you are preaching, why do you want to go live in afghanistan and make billions creating this infrastructure without paying taxes?

It is all there, just waiting for you to built the dream utopia. No government to hold you back or be on your way.

>>50335807
>You pay a share of your income

>be rich
>evade taxes
>be poor
>actually government PAYS YOU
>no incentive to work
>keep voting democrat
>wagies pay everything

>>50337149
if it wasnt for social security my mom would have no income. thank you paypiggies! also,
>KKK ID
based

>>50337157
I already purchased land that people say I “own”. You want me to relocate? Why should I have to?

I don't think my money should be spent on Jews, Negroes, Latinos, Asians, Catholics, immigrants, leftists, homosexuals, Muslims, or atheists.

>>50337220
I don't want anything, but you are saying that government is holding people back, that you should pay "only for the infrastructure I use", that companies would built this supposed infrastructure, that you pay directly. I'm just saying there is plenty of places free for anyone walk in and do just that, why nobody does? Why do you think anon? You even went as far as to state the ridicule that the government officials are threatening to kill you and that you could defend yourself all by yourself.

>>50337157
Afghanistan HAS a government dumbass

>>50335662
Extortion, not theft.

>>50335662
Read Lysander Spooner

>>50337096
Read Morris and Linda Tannehill

>>50337353
You can't even define what a government is.

>>50337301
I never claimed I needed any infrastructure. I do however need the weapons I “own” to defend land I “own”. Robber baron government lackeys will take those weapons at the airport if I try to go to Somalia and live there. The government has made it impossible not only for me to do it here, but to do it anywhere. Now answer me a question, do you think my compulsorily obtained tax money should be spent on MKULTRA and PBS? Doing away with those and similarly wasteful programs should be more than enough to remove property tax. Or do you support the waste?

>>50335662
They are, what's there to explain. No point talking about it out here in the open, taxes are a problem each of us needs to tackle privately.

>>50335953
I didn't ask to be born

>>50337375
>Or do you support the waste?
You are not competent enough to decide where the government will spent it's money. It's not up to you or me. You lack the very qualifications to exercise free will, much less decide the direction of a nation. And the government doesn't decide alone as well. Furthermore, you can enact change in the government even as a citizen in any form of society, but it requires a lot of time, work and effort.

>>50337408
you say that and yet you tried oh-so-fucking-hard to be the first cummy in your mom's tummy

>>50337370
no

>>50335662
They are
>>50335743
this
>>50335807
Irrelevant. That doesn't justify how HIGH tax rates are. Low IQ take. Taxes in themselves isn't the issue. The issue are stupid ass programs and OVERtaxation. Learn to think, retard

The government is right and it will prevail, so you all better get very comfortable with it, because taxes are not going anywhere.
Order is a very good thing, despite your personal beliefs, ORDER my friends will prevail.

>>50337096
The judicial system and the police.
>>50337104
Make an argument against private security firms, your post does not address this.
>>he thinks massive corporations controlling key infrastructure is preferable to governments controlling key infrastructure
Monopolies are created by state intervention, they can only form in our market due to intellectual property, regulatory capture, permitting, welfare, zoning laws, occupational licensing, among other things.
Competitive forces and diseconomies of scale would prevent the formation of monopolies in a free market.

>>50337574
>Monopolies are created by state intervention
Yes, yes, the gov decided that Google were going to be the monopoly of search engines.

>>50337430
>you don’t get to decide how your money is spent
>you aren’t competent
That’s what makes it robbery dipshit.

>>50337656
Read further, retard.

>>50337574
how are the judicial system and the police funded?

>>50335662
no I cant

>>50337574
>Make an argument against private security firms, your post does not address this.
>he thinks defense is the only aspect of government spending contributing towards societal stability
>he thinks private security firms have anywhere close to the reach necessary to provide the same scale of control and security as the government of the united states

>Competitive forces and diseconomies of scale would prevent the formation of monopolies in a free market.
>he thinks the government is not simply a very powerful market actor in what used to be a free market in the very sense of the word that took monopolistic control over a slice of land and the people living on it
>he thinks he's smart because he's excluding the very counter-example to his thesis from his analysis only by nature of ideologically opposing it

>>50337678
>>you don’t get to decide how your money is spent
You do decide, but you're playing dumb.
>>you aren’t competent
Correct you are not.
>>50337691
>>50337031
>>50337157

>>50335721
Nigga I couldnt read when I was born this shits a scam

>>50335662
taxes is not theft because the government is the strongest around.

>>50337678
>That’s what makes it robbery dipshit.
No it doesn't, if you use a service you have to pay for that, and who the fuck do you think you are you little bitch? The state raise you. You are alive and well today, by the grace of the State. You think you matter? You don't, you are part of the collective, you are part of society, if you don't like it you can leave. Ungrateful little scum.

>2016+6
>Retards in this thread still think the Government and corporations are separate entities

>>50337697
Thread over, everybody go home now.

>>50337697
Either privately or publically.
>>50337702
>>he thinks private security firms have anywhere close to the reach necessary to provide the same scale of control and security as the government of the united states
Why not?
>>he thinks the government is not simply a very powerful market actor in what used to be a free market in the very sense of the word that took monopolistic control over a slice of land and the people living on it
State aggression is antithetical to free market capitalism. The state is illegitimate and should be removed according to the principles of a capitalist social order.
>>50337722
>Capitalism is when warlord shithole
Do they respect private property and do they not aggress against their people?

>>50337933
situations like the war in ukraine and the subsequent economic fallout show that national interests still dominate corporate interests when push comes to shove, but i'd agree that they've been in a general state of decline.

>>50335662
dem roads though

The government defines what is theft of not
Greeks figured this shit out 3000 years ago.
>Justice is the will of the strongest

>>50337959
>Do they respect private property and do they not aggress against their people?
Wow you missed the mark completely. You think that if there is no government people will just act "respecting the private property"? NAP?
Oooooh, your innocence is cute. If you people try to rob each other and commit all sorts of crimes when there are thousands of trained government agents keeping the order what makes you think people will keep the order when these structures are destroyed? The example I gave you is what happens.
I rest my case as I have clearly already established my superiority.

>>50338083
> If you people try to rob each other and commit all sorts of crimes when there are thousands of trained government agents keeping the order
Are you implying that these agents are competent and performing their job well? I would rather pay a reputable firm to protect my property and neighborhood since they must be good at what they do to stay competitive in the market, unlike the state who can be as inefficient and incompetent as they like.
>I rest my case as I have clearly already established my superiority.
You clearly established that you are a faggot.

>>50337722
Really? Who decided we should implement MKULTRA? You think any citizen thought that was a justified use of taxpayer dollars?
I swear people that shill for the IRS are the dumbest fucking cattle, even worse than vaxxies.

>>50337822
My grandfather raised me on the farm he passed down to me from his grandfather’s grandfather’s grandfather, before the state existed. We have never depended on the state in any way. Why should I pay taxes?

>>50337822
>if you don’t like it you can leave
If only!

>>50339107
The year is 2022, if you can move you can leave anytime you want.

>>50339083
>We have never depended on the state in any way.
Your innocence would be cute if it wasn't annoying. All your great whatever depended dearly on the government, without it they would probably not even be alive.
>>50339027
>Really? Who decided we should implement MKULTRA?
I told you before whine and cry all you want, but you don't have the capacity to exercise free will, much less direct a country.
But without these "wastes", none of the shit you use would exist. Cry you little bitch.

>>50335662
ever used a road before?

>>50335662
They are 100% nothing but theft. Its something they can just print, so its merely a symbolic shackle of sorts to keep you enslaved mentally and financially and in submission to them. Unplug from the Matrix Neo

>>50335807
How did the government ever make it from 1776 until 1913 then? Income tax is theft and is unconstitutional

>>50335662
They're not theft because it's literally not your money, it was never yours to begin with, you were borrowing other people's money you deranged mentally-disabled spastic.

>>50335662
that's why you should read THE SOVEREIGN INDIVIDUAL

>>50342502
Wealth tax you fucking moron. Would you prefer 90% of your wealth instead of 40% of your income? I don't think so, so sit down and shut up.

Wealth tax would be far fairer to the masses in fact, what does income tax mean to someone like Musk, it's a joke.

>>50335662
Can you explain the difference between taxes and rent?

>>50335662
Your taxes are put towards the government, which is the framework for everything. Laws, law enforcement, military, schools, infrastructure, intelligence, and more. Whether you agree on what their agenda is variable.

>>50338083
>Thousands of trained government agents keeping order
>Oopsie look how high the murder rate went because we decided that keeping order is racist
>Now pay your taxes so we can send money to our pet Jews in Ukraine
If taxes are the price to live in a civilized society, why was the society more civilized when the price was lower

>>50335662
What is stopping an enemy nation from conquering your land and raping you?
Your country's national military force. How the fuck do you expect it to pay for itself?
Who pays for the roads and hospitals and public schools?
Taxes are necessary for any functioning society. You are not entitled to free shit.

>>50342724
Hispanics are literally raping and pillaging the nation. The military isn't doing shit about it. Taxation is theft and Im living in the fall of the Roman Empire 2.0

>>50342761
Man put your retarded conspiracies aside for a second. I'm talking about an actual land invasion from a country like Russia or China taking over every aspect of your nation, shooting your dad in the street, raping your mom in front of you, then throwing you in a ditch.
How many more hispanics do you think would be waltzing into your country if there wasn't some sort of border patrol?

>>50335662
>Can anyone explain to me how taxes are not theft?
Its impossible, because they are objectively theft

>>50342575
wealth tax would be impossible to enforce on the rich. also, musk is rich because of government allowed tesla to operate tax-free.

>>50342575
>Wealth tax you fucking moron
lol. how stupid do you have to be to actually believe this would ever work

The gang discusses anarcho-capitalism

taxes are not voluntary payments for goods and services
they are compulsory and the government will murder/torture you if you dont comply.
taxation, is quite literally the definition of theft: taking someones private property without their consent.

>>50341128
MUH ROADS

commit suicide please (pic related)

>>50335807
>>50335807
>You make money thanks to the infrastructure provided by the government.
We pay taxes AND then ALSO pay for the services rendered. Stop gaslighting the obvious racket.

Oh no he’s waking up declare a pandemic tomorrow so we can give him another shot

>>50336402
All the silver spoons that are in government aren't even playing the same game as the average peasant. Money and shit that a normal person would care about doesn't even cross their minds since they can get anything they want without worrying about it, be it food, sex, drugs, etc. The only thing they lack is the power to make other people to do what they want, which is why they get into government in the first place.

>>50335662
Actually income taxes are one of if not the best schemes to maintain waggies in the poverty line that it's actually quite fantastic that it has preserved so long in time. The fact that nobody notices that at best is the world's worst regulated money and a t worst is just wagie theft is surprising. Wanna know why people are poorer and poorer? well that's one of the main reasons, that's why i started plainly staking money and making other forms of passive income earning, i wouldn't be able to counter inflation otherwise. If it wasn't for staking on loveoot idk what the fuck i would do because holy shit do i lose money each month paying taxes for services i don't use or are not even working