/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50114759
it's funny when /pol/tards zone themselves out of wealth because they decided to buy shiny rocks from jew merchants of all people

>>50114759
examples like this lead me to believe all of finance is a pyramid scheme. just invest in something obscure and useful before everyone else

It hedges inflation over long time frames. You kids want something that goes up every day, but there is no such asset and there is no such trading strategy.

>>50114808
>opportunity cost

>>50114821
>>opportunity cost
Such a bs meme.
1. It requires hindsight
2. It implies that you should go all in on only one thing, which is gambling no matter how you look at it. You can skew the odds in your favor by dyor but it's still gambling
3. It implies what ever you picked instead of your current holding would naturally go up when you are more likely to have picked a loser statistically than a winner
TL:DR opportunity cost is pure fud. It's a Reddit tier meme used by permabulls who have never been through a cycle.

>>50114888

t. shit at the markets

>>50114808
gold is same price from 12 years ago, when does that hedge kick in?

>>50114759
>boomers and schizos tell me gold is a long HODL
>bought a couple ounces at $1050, after fees and shipping sold it all for only like $800 profit
Cucks hold gold. Guarantee it’s going back down to $1k by end of decade, while inflation just keeps rising. Imagine owning a security so illiquid you have to only sell for 80% of its “market value” before you even pay taxes on the return lmfao

>>50115214
My PM stack is up 400% in the past 3 years.
My stock is up 85%
And my crypto is up nearly 900%
Seethe and dialate tranny.

>>50115237
>Doesn't know how to swing GSR
Ngmi.

>>50114759
what's funny is that when you buy gold or silver you're immediately 10% in the red because of premiums
>inb4 lying poltards say their guy only charges them a 2% premium or some other nonsense

>>50115321
thats not what the thread is about now is it

>>50114759
there's certainly noooooo manipulation
that would be impossible

>>50115324
Lmao, and they lying saying that PMs will skyrocket once COMEX is drained or hyperinflation kicks. Decades go by and nothing happens to the price of the magic metals.

>>50115237
Two more weeks.

There is only two scenarios where it is acceptable to hold gold.
1) an insane crash where everything you don't physically own can be lost.
2) A blow off top like we saw during the periodes of stagflation in the 70s.

Gold is not an inflation hedge, Cotton or oil would be a better inflation hedge than gold.

>>50115366
Ah yes. Always a man behind the curtain suppressing gold from its role as saviour. It’s never the market expressing indifference to the magic metal.

You keep talking about manipulation and there is no proof whatsoever of that being true, after countless CFTC investigations which turned into nothing. There was just one fine to JPM years ago which proves nothing. This is your ultimate cope.

>>50114759
The best inflation hedge is real estate. Always has been, always will be.

>>50114759
>>50114773
>>50114789
>>50114821
>>50115237
>looking at mere decades

>>50114888
hey dumbass it's called the standard and poor 500 and it basically tracks the entire us economy
shiny rocks are just a shitty boomer version of indexes that literally rely on a greater fool down the line
the only reason gold isn't a complete joke is because it did has had bull runs in the '70s, '00s, and recently but it it repeats what it did in the '80s then it will be a joke

>>50114759
boomer rocks are just as volatile as anything else right now, id much rather invest in a strong coin that has insane potential like MATIC.

>>50114759 (OP)
boomer rocks are just as volatile as anything else right now, id much rather invest in a strong coin that has insane potential like %CoinName%.

>>50114759 (OP) (OP)
boomer rocks are just as volatile as anything else right now, id much rather invest in a strong coin that has insane potential like Elon's Sperm.

I love threads like this because it affirms my thesis that PMs are about to rip. You're all dumb as shit. Every single cryptard's opinion is absolutely terrible. Hey dipshits, markets go through cycles
>but X asset class hasn't performed lately therefore it never will!
morons. learn to get ahead of the moves and not be swayed the whims of the retarded crowd, exactly as this thread is trying to convince you to do

>>50116116
This.
The COMEX is fraudulent.

>>50116116
except gold has performed lately
it even looks exactly like the meme chart haha

>>50115689
>>50115806
>>50116030
im putting down the pipe...

>>50115237
>still same price as 12 years ago
>the dollar is worth less
>N-no you don't understand! Its a bad store of value!

>>50115544
Why don't you just say, "I don't know how to make money of precious metals." Would have saved you a paragraph. It's unbelievably easy to use PM as a store of wealth that beats inflation if you're not a complete retard.>>50115361
Yes it is. You beat inflation and store wealth with PM by swinging the GSR. Your ignorance on how to use PM's does not negate it's utility.
That's like saying hammers are shitty for pounding nails because keep trying to use the claw end.

>>50116258
that means your purchasing power is less u utter imbecile

>>50116297
you can apply that argument to anything retard
even poopbabyshibdogerocketcoin can make you money but that doesn't make it a good investment
pmgs are garbage
they aren't a hedge and they aren't good in a bull market either

>>50116378
>you can apply that argument to anything retard
yeah, exactly.
>pmgs are garbage
this contradicts what you just said. money made when PMs are going up is just as good as anything else. if that money isn't good enough for you, that's fine by me. more money for the rest of us.
>PMs will never go up
hey retard, past performance is not indicative of future results. try to use your brain and figure out why things move or don't move, and get ahead of those moves.
>they aren't a hedge
yes they are. you just don't understand them. which isnt surprising, because you sound like a retard. PMs were never meant to be an inflation hedge. just because you fell for a common meme doesn't have any bearing on the validity of the asset class

This thread convince me to buy another 10oz bar. There's nothing more bullish than seeing /biz/ fud something. It's either a shill, which means they're afraid, or it is one of the utter retards that post here, and you should always do the opposite of what they say.

>>50116442
true and based

>>50116426
>i can't read and i am stupid
ok retard

>>50114808
>>50115237
>>50115287
>>50115366
>>50115368
>>50115414
no, it's a hedge against declining economic growth in a negative real rate environment. the fact that everyone believes in the "hedge against inflation" meme is why people treat PMs as a joke. you can have inflation in a positive rate environment with solid growth and PMs will perform like shit

you're all genuinely retarded and terrible at market research. if there's one post that should be read in this thread it's this one

>>50116507
i know im right when posters resort to devolving into a barking monkeys instead of presenting any actual arguments like a sentient being blessed with consciousness would

>>50114759
>Not unronically taking /biz/'s advice on this

Buy when gold-Dow/silver-Dow ratio is high, sell when it's low

Simple as

Gold and silver have been outperformed by rice and beans.

You should still hold a little physical G & S as an insurance policy for hyperinflation. Unfortunately the perma-bull precious metals salesmen have cried wolf and predicted disaster so many times that their credibility is ruined forever.

Don't forget that all money is created digitally by private banks issuing loans. Banks create new money out of thin air AFTER the borrower signs the loan contract. This scam requires the money supply to be constantly growing, so a currency crisis or massive inflationary event is guaranteed. We just don't know when it will happen.

>>50117396
retard. see >>50116555

>>50114759
>GLD -0.1% YTD
>S&P500 -20%
>the price of steak just fell 15%
you might be retarded. do they check that where you live? can you get that checked? check on it.

>>50114773

>>50114759
>Gold is down 4% over the past year
lol, lmao

>>50116555
hey mr smartypants
Interest rates are going up and inflation is coming down. What happens to the price of gold over the next year?

>>50115544
>the only reason gold isn't a complete joke is because it did has had bull runs in the '70s, '00s,
"gold is bad but the only reason gold is not bad is because gold is good"
whew!
good thing inflation isn't running incredibly hot!
good thing the tech sector didn't just crash and burn!
good thing there isn't a single war anywhere in the world involving any of the major powers!
probably won't be another lost decade for a long time! let's buy some 32-byte md5 hashes that have runs of zeroes in them and trade them in for lamborghinis next year

>>50117698
interest rates are going down and inflation has barely moved at all from its peak. look at a chart

>>50117698
>>50117715
and by interest rates i mean bond yields. fed funds rate means nothing as it always follows the 2y yield anyway

Buy things with actual uses like stainless steel
Rent a forklift to store 5 ton rolls of steel in your backyard

why is this retard using the Uganda FUD again? I have seen the same FUD for the past month, who the fuck actually trust niggers to report accurate stats.

>>50117756
money HAS a use. it eliminates the huge inefficiency of a barter economy by serving as a medium of exchange. this is yet another shit meme FUD for gold

>>50117778
doesn't matter even if it's true. retards dont understand it takes 5-10 years to get a mine actually online, and there's no guarantee that will even happen. everyone knows there's gold in the ground; this discovery means nothing at all until it's actually out of the ground.

>>50114773
what's your investment portfolio look like. I bet you buy stocks but complain about jews getting a cut of gold sales.

>>50114759
Inflation was priced in since it went to 28 for silver and 1900 for gold. Ideally you should have sold then.

>>50114759
>FUDding money
>just hold USD bro
pathetic

>>50115426
up 600% over 20 years and that's even with gold being debased by huge amounts of fictitious paper gold. Jews through Comex / LME type commodity paper exchanges print out gold paper slips, debase the gold supply, and drive prices down. This hides inflation since high precious metals values signal failing currencies. Simple as.

>>50117819
no, no, no. this is a shit take. precious metals peaked because analysts saw signs of the economy recovering. yes, it was a shit, artificial, engineering and contrived recovery, but a recovery nonetheless. once they realize we're already in a recession, they will want bonds. but bonds have a negative yield, so the only option will be fucking GOLD.

see >>50116555

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>>50115689
google images shows matic is just a gold coin.

>>50117869
edit: forgot tripcode was on. turned off.

>>50117442
Mike Maloney did some historical research to see how gold performed during hyperinflations. He found that during the Weimar hyperinflation, 20 ounces of gold could buy an entire city block of Berlin real estate including the buildings.

We aren't near a hyperinflation yet. It is a rare event (only 27 hyperinflations happened during the 20th century according to Swiss economist/historian Peter Bernholz). But when hyperinflations happen, you definitely want some precious metals. You don't need a lot, either.

As I already stated, the precious metals dealers have been crying wolf about hyperinflation since the 1960's. Their main sales tools are fear and greed. But someday the storm may hit like a rare hurricane landing in New Jersey.

Buying metals should be treated the same as buying auto insurance and homeowners insurance.

>>50114759
does no one understand that the dollar's days are numbered? there will be a replacement, already being designed, and when it becomes implemented it will be precious metals that gives it value. grab all you can now because there's a reason they're trying to make the metals look bad. there's 5000 years of history where gold and silver has been money. it will happen again, not if but when.

>>50117926
gold can has has risen outside of hyperinflations. this take is shit and naive. gold rose over 50% since its bottom in 2018. what was the cause of that according to your model, genius?

>>50115426
US stock market is up literally 1000% more over the same time period.

>>50117396
>Gold and silver have been outperformed by rice and beans.
Good thing I hold those too

>>50118051
stocks are the biggest scam. There is a reason Amerimutt media tells you constantly that it's legitimate.

>>50118051
>past performance is indicative of future results!
the literal dumbest of all takes

>>50118083
US stocks are high because they are a reserve currency and everyone in the world has USD that they need to spend. Naturally, lots of that money ends up in the stock market causing a huge bubble.

Ask yourself though; what do people that own stocks actually own? They gave money to a company, the company gave them a receipt that was passed on to a buyer through an exchange, and that receipt is traded by dummies who bid the receipt up. What the company does doesnt matter. all that matters is that more people buy in, and since america is a reserve currency with infinate money printing, there is always new money looking for a home.

Ever wonder why nobody invest in canadian stocks or german stocks?

>>50118145
>US stocks are high because they are a reserve currency
>stocks are a reserve currency
>no mention of monetary policy whatsoever

>>50118145
here ill spoonfeed you because i feel bad towards the mentally challenged. stocks are high for two reasons and two reasons only: QE and low interest rates. these are going away and they aren't coming back. markets are cyclical. stop looking in the rear-view mirror.

>>50118051

the stock market is a bubble. Gold is not in a bubble

>>50118205
I said American stocks. American stocks are bought and sold in USD. There is a LOT of USD floating around globally and lots of it makes its way into the American stock market. if you don't know that USD is the global reserve currency.... then there is something wrong with you.

Stocks are a ponze scheme. You are trading slips of paper that have no value. All that matters is more money is printed out so more people can buy in. Stocks in that sense are a hedge against inflation but like bitcoin they have no intrinsic value.

>>50114773
I just know what Weimar was like for PMs so I anticipate currency to crash along with stocks and all other assets

>>50118237
the FED has to keep blasting out money because it is the global reserve currency. Low rates are a meme that is repeated because americans complain about inflation. You can't just stop printing the global reserve currency.

What you are saying is true of countries like canada or japan. Not true of america. America has to continue blasting out money.

>>50118267
yes, american stocks, german stocks, doesn't matter. all the central banks are doing the same thing and making the same monetary policy mistakes. they're all overvalued. stop looking in the rear-view mirror.

stocks do have value. you don't know anything about finance. look up IRR. stocks literally pay dividends. that cash flow has value. again, you have no idea what you're talking about. if you try to invest based on your own knowledge you're going to get burned. i won't tell you again, stop looking in the rear-view mirror. stocks are dead. stop thinking past performance is going to be indicative of future results.

>>50118296
>the FED has to keep blasting out money because it is the global reserve currency
wrong again. the fed doesn't have to do anything, not until foreign banks go insolvent, at least. what actually has to happen is triffin's dilemma. foreign economies get the dollars they need by us maintaining a trade deficit, but regardless, that's beside the point. the stock market is not the economy. stocks can fall precipitously despite everything you're saying anyway. your hubris will cost you money, and you don't know what you don't know.

>>50118237
QE and low interest rates aren’t going anywhere
>pic related

>>50114759
US and Europe are about to start a losing war. How will the currency hold up if the people don’t support the globohomo war? You would have to retarded looking at political climate and think that fiat can survive this

>>50118325
solved by inflation. interest rates, and inflation, are going up, but inflation is going up faster. inflation will bail out the government in real terms, making your image moot. the degree to which everyone tries to rationalize how the current order will remain indefinitely when markets are obviously cyclical is baffling to me

>>50118349
While the PP of the debt may go down, the tax base won’t increase faster than the nominal debt expense. Nominal terms is what really matters with govt debt because they’ve incurred fixed liabilities so it’s not like the purchasing power really matters if they can’t meet the nominal debt payment. And even if they do for a bit longer, the debt expense will just be paid for by selling more treasuries further increasing total nominal debt and debt expense even more

>>50118403
well, yes, it goes without saying that only the nominal matters, but the nominal rises with inflation as well. i don't think you understand, interest rates rose and fell over the past 40 years, but on net the fell. the same thing will happen in the next 40 years, but in reverse. the change will be gradual enough that inflation will also increase the government's nominal income statement, exceeding the rate of inflation. why? because people are pushed into higher tax brackets. inflation is how reckless government spending is ultimately paid for. many historical examples. look at history if you disagree.

>>50118349
The US will default if we have high interest rates. The national debt is growing exponentially — Obama spent more than every president combined, trump spent the same as Obama in half the time, now we see what Biden is gonna do.

>>50118315
listen amerimutt, I don't believe in any of your scam financial products and that includes: commodity futures, crypto, and stocks.

>>50118459
bro.... i literally just explained in the post how that's not true. the government's income statement will rise with inflation, ensuring they won't default. inflation is literally how governments are bailed OUT of their irresponsible and reckless spending, but higher interest rates always follow inflation.

>>50114759
I'll use this as OP greentext for a /pol/ SETF thread.

>>50118446
But they can’t go up, even gradually, because Americans have obscene debt loads. If they do go up the US will default and many of the largest companies in the US will too. This has its own string of implications but it would be impossible for households, corps, or govts to service their debt.

>>50118514
You’re retarded if you think the tax base will increase faster than the exponentially growing debt.

>>50115214
so you're a multibillionaire, right?

>>50118532
>But they can’t go up, even gradually, because Americans have obscene debt loads
you keep saying this, it's like you don't understand that what matters isn't the nominal rate, it's the real rate, ie, nominal minus inflation. yes, interest rates WILL go up, because they always do when inflation is higher, but the whole point is they will go up LESS than inflation, which is the panacea for the very debt you are saying is the reason why interest rates can't rise.

let me put it this way. there are 2 ways to reduce debt burden, other than paying it obviously. default, and inflation. which do you think the government will choose? you think the debt is going to be paid back legitimately? you are retarded if you think so.

>the exponentially growing debt.
the debt is not growing exponentially in REAL TERMS, which is what matters. the debt burden actually fell from its peak because inflation was so high, which is what will continue to happen, because it must happen. it's the only politically palatable way to reduce the debt burden.

>>50118640
Faggot the nominal rate matters for the govt because they have fixed liabilities you mong. We established that here. >>50118446

Even if the real value of the debt expense goes down they still need to meet the nominal payment and will be unable to with taxes so they will default or just expand the money supply to pay the debt expense which will just cause a feedback loop

>>50114759
See >>50117553 you stupid mongoloid

>>50118755
u are one dense mother fucker. i've already explained several times how the government's income statement rises faster than inflation, allowing them to service the greater debt burdens associated with higher nominal rates. u are legitimately retarded

>>50118938
It doesn’t though.

Where do you guys hide your physical gold?

gold has declined in value relative to inflation over the decades but it actually stays pretty steady overall. It does seem to be a hedge against inflation, at least compared to cash.

>>50118994
>declined over the decades
If you mean beat SPX since 2000 then sure

>>50118974
yes, it does. people are pushed into higher income brackets for tax purposes because their wages have to rise with inflation. this increases government revenue. you really think just saying "it doesn't" is an argument? why are you so adamant when you're patently wrong?

>>50118042
Dear Sac de Douche (That's French for something):

I never said anything about gold going up or down, douchebag. And I have been following the Gold market since the late 1990's when it was under $450/ounce.

All I said is that gold and silver are excellent insurance policies for the event of a hyperinflation.

>>50119350
you suggested that gold should only rise precipitously in the event of a hyper-inflation, as if it's a waste outside of that specific scenario. you are disingenuous and bad-faith. fuck off, simpleton

>>50116378
No you can't. Because your shit on n isn't predictable. PMs are. They have been tracked for 10's of thousands of years and are as predictable as the sunrise. Your comment is why midwits aren't allowed to have opinions.

>>50117396
>Outperformed
Just say you don't know what to do with PMs instead of making dumb statements and people might explain it. Saying rice and beans outperformed PMs just says you don't know how to make money on PMs.

>>50114759
Buy shiny coin for 1k, now worth almost 2!

>>50118145
I have Canadian and German stocks, the latter paying good dividend.

>>50114759
why does the jew keep pasting this over and over?