/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>50022953
>even possible anymore in the US if you live on a coast to be the primary breadwinner, for a spouse to not have to work and and kids to be taken care of, while also still being there for them emotionally and for quality time?
What? No.

The idea of a single income parent being able to support a large family died out forty years ago. We're now at a point where even two-income families are having a hard time with it.

>>50022953
Parent here. I've found that raising kids is far more of an energy, time, and everything else issue than it is a money issue. With money, you can always find a way. Save on this, cut out that, buy this, don't buy that, choose this job, don't choose that job, etc. The real challenge will be everything else. And whether you have the time, patience, and mental fortitude to raise 4 is gonna be up to you.

>>50022953
you need an 80th percentile household income to be comfortably middle class. how you make this is up to you, whether it's you making all the money or you and your wife making it together. you can research this by zipcode. i live in the exurbs of philadelphia. that 80th percentile household income is $150k which seems slightly low but not too unreasonable. in general i'd say $100k/year in a rural area, $150k in middle class suburbs/medium city, $200k in larger city, $250k in a place like SF/NYC/DC/LA/etc.

>>50023156
and before some retard argues that 80th percentile can't possibly be "middle class," shut the fuck up. if you're a 50th percentile household income earner you are DESPERATELY poor.

>>50023036
i keep hearing this not just on here but elsewhere too. is there any hope itll go back in your opinion?
>>50023075
hey thank you that means alot. me and my fiancee really want kids and i got lucky that she’s basically that tradwifejack meme in the way she wants to have a simple yet emotionally rich homestead life on the outskirts of some town or city or whatever. she wants to always work and have her own business but i’d like to that that traditional masculine role yk. but anyway thats good to head. in your opinion, what are some of the most valuble things you guys do to make things work?
>>50023156
>>50023194
thanks for the advice, i hadn’t thought about zipcode before. i’ve mostly been looking at states as a whole or counties. some of the states we looking at are ME, NJ, NH, VT, MA (expensive af), upstate NY (expensive), OR, and WA. Maybe also ID, MT, or somewhere on the western mid west. But damn i mean i know its rough out there, but holy shit its demoralizing thinking the only way to make $$$ is those less outdoorsy active jobs. I could maybe imagine myself doing programming but still, if i can’t even cope with a cushy software sales job rn, idk.

You will first need to reduce the labor pool by 50% or more. Until that happens, it is impractical for men to be the breadwinners the way they were 30+ years ago.

>>50022953
Just have kids, Eastern Europeans have tons of kids and live in poverty and enjoy it. Americans are so gluttonous it’s unreal. $52,000 is enough.

>>50023558
>$52,000 is enough.
have fun raising a future generation of career forklift operators and great clips hair stylists

>>50022953
Both have WFH jobs, both take care of the kids. Kids are paid for and emotionally cared for. Some daycare or preschool is fine for kids to get some socialization.

>>50023589
>I NEED GOYBUCKS TO SEND MY KIDS TO A GOOD GOYSCHOOL

>>50023075
yup. I have an 8 month old son and it's insane how much time and energy he requires. Time to myself or time with my significant other is a luxury. Even bed time is a fucking hassle now....but money? we all share the same meals and diapers are donated to us by our whole family. He's pretty cheap all things considered.

I wouldn't trade it for anything though. He becomes more and more of his own person each day and will keep me on my toes for years. I'm 28 and never thought this would happen for me. Just found out we're having another child too.

>>50023642
Well at least you’re not just plopping him in front of an ipad/TV so you can run off to eat goychow

>>50023589
I'd rather raise a forklift operator that could beat your ass than some fancy college cuckold

>>50022953
Of course it is possible. Guess what, the post-WW II generation didn't buy mansions in their early 30's, they had
- small first homes
- no TV, no smartphone, no computers, netflix
- usually no car but public transport/bike
- shitty by today's standard kitchen and shower.
- bored to death wives with a pill addiction.

Apart from zeitgeist, there's a couple of reasons why people today have fewer kids and don't buy houses right after starting to work.

>>50023507
Don't overthink having kids too much. If you are both smart, good at learning and figuring things out then kids will be that extra motivator to keep disciplined. Things were touch and go when we had kids and had a combined income of around 120k. Then within 3 years it went to 500k annual income (not that should be expected for most but when you are not a dumbass then it gets easier and easier to learn how to make more and more money by leveraging skills others don't have). Kids will bring you a comfort and peace of mind despite when they are acting like little assholes that few things can match.

>>50022953
stop being a coastie fag shit will always cost more.

t. supporting wife and baby on 1 income in kansas

>>50023075
It can be a money problem. It can also be a non-money labor problem because you're stressed about money. It's hard to raise kids when you're under Goldberg's boot.

>>50023507
>in your opinion, what are some of the most valuble things you guys do to make things work?
I think the #1 quality that new parents need to make things is patience. Patience, patience, and a lot of patience. You need to be patient with each other's personalities. Patience with your financial situation. Patience with your children and their crying and tantrums. Patience with yourself, as you are now responsible for the life and well-being of another human, and don't give in to the pressure. And you also need to let go of the "me, my life" mindset, which is sadly the main destroyer of modern families in my perspective. Once you are married, you and your wife are one. Think and act as such. If you had a quarrel, never wait for one of you to reach out and make up, regardless of who is in the wrong, you need to resolve the issue right then and there, and if not, then at least before one of you goes out of the house (for any reason). And also, this one's critical: never ever involve any third parties with your quarrels. Whether it's parents, in-laws, siblings, and especially friends. Keep it between the two of you, and solve it ASAP. A strong bond between spouses and good intentions will insure that the kids turn out alright, no matter how bad the money situation gets. But you also need to have the self-awareness that good intentions doesn't mean knowing what's best. You also have to be willing to constantly learn, and sometimes you won't have answers.

>>50023678
i grew up in a rural shithole town and worked in a factory and operated industrial machinery and forklifts for several years before going back to school and getting my fancy college job that pays me $100k/year from home. cope harder, cletus.

>>50023743
How long would you recommend dating a girl before proposing? Or perhaps a better question what should your girlfriend demonstrate during the dating period that validates a proposal?

>>50023696
There's literally nothing to do in Kansas besides fucking heroin. And before you say it, yes big cities are fucking garbage and I would never want to live in one.

>>50023832
2-3 years of living together. a bitch's true colors come out when she lives with you. she'll get comfortable and her behavior will lapse in some ways. if she's an insane psycho or if she's disgustingly lazy and worthless, she can't hide it from you.

get ready for some 19 year old tradcath mulattoe zoomer to disagree with me. we both know what i say is true.

>>50022953
3rd worlder here; Can’t you two move back to your parents? It’ll definitely be a lifesaver on your finance. Just help them with paying the bills. I personally would rather drive 50min to work at 5am than pay rent

>>50023832
>Or perhaps a better question what should your girlfriend demonstrate during the dating period that validates a proposal?
An actual (and mutual) investment in your health (physical and mental) and well-being is the most basic pre-requisite. And this is gonna depend on the situation, but specifically for marriage, the two of you also need to have an investment in each other's families and be at the very least open to keeping in touch with them. And aside from all the other stuff like your personalities clicking and whatnot, this will be your signal that you could tie the knot.

>>50023832
see >>50023890

Also, the greatest advice (and probably only good) advice my father gave me was this:

No matter what, take her on a month+ long trip to some country far from her comfort zone. How she behaves after the first week will tell you everything you need to know about her.

>>50023156
>>50023194
>you need an 80th percentile household income to be comfortably middle class
uh.. isn't the whole concept of middle class to be in the middle, by definition?
So yes, 50th percentile IS middle class. It's simply that we got empoverished so badly by decades of jewish policies and corruption, that being in the middle now isn't even near enough to offer you the same lifestyle and standards of living your middle class parents had.

Hell, the me of 2022 isn't even close to have the same standards of living than the me of 2019 kek. My local McDonald's cheeseburgers were 0.95€ in 2019, they are 3.40€ today. And my salary didn't change at all.

>>50024038
>My local McDonald's cheeseburgers were 0.95€ in 2019, they are 3.40€ today. And my salary didn't change at all.

exactly my point. everyone's wages stay (materially) the same. cost of living goes up considerable. the median wage is still the median wage while you're measurably poorer. you need to be 80th percentile to be comfortable. pareto's law strikes again.

>>50024102
Yes, to be comfortable. Which is not the middle class anymore. Upper-middle class would be more accurate. Your souvenirs aren't the reality anymore, sadly.

I make 120K a year and my mortgage is like 2K a month so yes it's possible, but I would lose most of my hobbies since all the extra money would go to kids.

>>50023589
it depends on how you raise them and who you know

>>50023877
boredom sets into the boring mind

>>50023877
Hustle and bustle fan detected. Never been bored once in my time here. Enjoy better things.

>>50023678
college is for faggots but they're the ones that will fire your retard son when he doesn't wear a pedo pride mask

guys please just liquidate as many luxury assets (TVs, videogames, unneeded cars, funkopops, legos, musical instruments, etc) as you can and buy things to start growing food. Wheat and corn are going to 3x in price or more by the end of the year, food shortages are coming, even in the West, although it will probably just be very expensive and not a rationing scenario just yet. all of these massive debt bubbles are going to pop, sell your luxury stuff while its still overvalued and buy things like silver, corn and wheat (etfs or physical, physical is better), farm and garden equipment, etc. be ahead of the curve. also if you're white, GET OUT OF CITIES. WHY ARE YOU STILL THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>>50023877
>nothing to do in kansas
Grow corn.

>>50024569
just start your own business, fuck college

>>50023507
>>>50023036 #
>i keep hearing this not just on here but elsewhere too. is there any hope itll go back in your opinion?
are you stupid?
well obviously yes you are

>>50024676
based

really this is a good idea, if you have the means you should do this, even if it just a small scale. what else are you doing in your spare time? fapping? videogames? even if you fail the first few tries you will gain valuable experience, PLEASE DO THIS YOU BLOODY BASTERDS

>>50023942
I’m embarrassed of my family

>>50024908
>corn long baggies

>>50024038
fucking lmao hahahahahaha
yeah the """middle class""" worldwide is some jeet working in a textile mill because at least he isn't a nigger panning for gold or a laotian sweatshop worker
if you are working class it means you have to work to subsist: if you are middle class it means you could survive off your capital but typically work because to do so would be unstable or trying ie you are petite bourgeoisie

>>50024664
Just plant lots of potatoes and stock up on ammunition. Silver is a meme.

>>50023075
>it's not a money problem
>t. guy who pulled up the ladder behind him
Thanks for the insight, grandpa. Go back to watching talmudvision.

>>50023642
based. That first year is the hardest, when they hit 2 its like youve got a best bro for life. Every day they just surprise you.

>>50023558
see thats what i’ve thought too, my grandfather always used to say that if you wait till youre financially ready for kids you’ll never have them. but it also seems irresponsible to pop out more lives without atleast a little bit of a security
>>50023596
i will say this; my fiancee’s main job is her own business and its rn and likely in the future WFH so that’s nice. but small businesses are a risk too i suppose. i think she’ll make it though
>>50023642
congratulations on the news anon thats awesome. and thank you for the advice too, it seems like even though its really stressful alot of parents say what you said and wouln’t trade it for the world
>>50023678
ngl, i am pretty firmly anti college. i went to college, and my fiancee got her associates. i will support them if they decide to go but also make sure they know its not the only option, and there’s also community college and state schools
>>50023686
lmao but i hear ya, thank you! definitely regardless gonna scrimp and save and be as frugal as we can be
>>50023692
thank you for that, it means alot to me anon. and that’s awesome about the pay raise! we both really love kids anyway and see ourseleves with them so if other things need to go in order for them to have good lives then we’ll do it
>>50023696
i was mostly saying coasts because thats actually where our families would be willing to move to, all of us also love beaches. we’ve considered the midwest for sure, any reccomendations besides kansas?
>>50023743
bro that really means so much to me, and i am going to remember all of that. luckily me and her actually already do alot of that but still we always seek ways to be even more one and together. a big one actually is solving issues asap and not involving other people and also not going to bed mad or anything. but that makes alot of sense and i think that i can definitely do all of that. also got lucky with her and finding her. thanks a million

>>50024941
corn is going to be worth so much in the next year, physical is better

>>50023832
Don't bother cohabitating, you just have to be brutally honest with both her and yourself (and what you want in a wife) -- things like premarital sex, cohabitation etc. all cloud your judgment on these matters. You will know if a woman is wife material within a year.

>>50025024
yes silver is a meme until SHTF

>>50025161
Missouri/Arkansas are both good too just don't be a fag. Ohio funnily enough is probably what you're looking for with proximity to east coast but still can get some nice rural living in.

>>50025208
>in le happening muh shiny rocks will be worth more than food or ammo!
pmg is a legitimate mental illness

>>50023832
OP here but i think 2-3 years living together too. i lived with a different girl for 3 years after we had been together for a couple years, and we broke up, i didn’t even look for rings or anything. this girl im with now, constantly think of our future and everything is easy.
>>50023932
not possible im afraid. her parents are still raising 4 kids, and my mom and dad live in a small 1BR apartment now.
>>50024038
>>50024102
is there any true way to get around this though? alot of ppl do van life now, or homesteads, or living in some countryside in the US, but it also at the same time feels inescapable? >>50024324
luckily my hobbies are pretty flexible, and also home based. but good to know thank you, mortgage is another thing i’ll have to factor in
>>50024664
thanks anon

>>50022953
It all comes down to housing cost. My wife and I gross $160k and we were barely able to score a house in 2021. Once you have your housing payment figured out you will have a better picture

>>50025301
>OP here
you realise /biz/ has ids?

>>50022953
Why do you live in Maryland? What a nigger filled shithole.

>>50022953
you can do it if your wife isn't stupid and obsessed with social status via housing

>>50025227
Silver is an essential component of our tech driven future, anon. There will be no "collapse", just a paradigm shift, a lot of hardship and the birth of a new era for mankind. I'm hedged more towards the multipolar world order basket of currencies view. The west is acting psychotic in order to scare other nations but they will be forced to back down in the end as their economies unravel naturally.

>>50025318
What's housing like in West Virginia?

>>50025446
i don't disagree that silver has real intrinsic and probably unrealised value
however if shit hits the fan to the degree that the hoarders of ammo and corn come out on top silver will not be anyone's main concern and there will be no high tech industry
it wont happen anyway
i'm also unconvinced that silver will ever realise its true value because there are vested interests both in finance in tech to suppress it
who wants silver to moon? not many important people

>>50025511
Silver has to go up as metal extraction requires fossil fuels. Demand is currently outstripping mining production. They can only suppress with paper for so long but when those futures contracts expire and people expect delivery the only way is up.

You vill own znothing. Vand you vill be happy.

>>50023686
>tfw no pill popping gf to nod off with

>>50022953
Start young, both work both make a full house payment every two weeks have house paid off in 8 years. Have 3 kids, pregnant six months after giving birth. When the youngest kid starts school the wife can go back to work part time or WFH.

Great success!

>>50025604
Nobody rational actually believes that, anon. Old Klaus is just proposing a hegelian dialectic antithesis in order to scare you into arriving at synthesis. You will own some things and be relatively satisfied.

>>50024440
>who you know
Kek. OP knows nobody. It's an undeniable fact that the more capital you make the easier it will be to raise successful children.

>>50025571
people have been saying exactly that for as long as i can remember
silver is a perfectly fine hedge but so are most commodities and i'm too poor to be considering it anyway
that said, while i'm not sure exactly to what extent silver is required for EVs, i assume it is, but with a lot of europe banning the sale of new combustion cars in the future longing lithium etc seems like a safe obvious play
but anyone who buys gold because
>w-when the collapse comes and he bandits are stalking the hills while people literally starve in america gold will moon!!!!
is just a retard

>>50025187
shut the FUCK up you dumb fucking zoomer retard

>>50025828
I agree. Gold just looks more enticing than government bonds at the moment. I'm skewed towards gold simply because I anticipate a US government default in the next 10 years.

>>50025213
I’ll look into those thanks man! been thinking around the great lakes too maybe since they’re around water
>>50025318
good point, but congratulations on the house!
>>50025410
we were born here unfortunately. bodymore murderland
>>50025723
would be excellent!
>>50025417
thank fuck she isn’t. idk how but i bagged one of the most unmaterualistic girls ive met. doesnt even have social media

>>50025974
Kentucky/West Virginia also extremely good value with a lot of nice places to raise a family.

>>50022953
10$ for lettuce are you fucking kidding me, i bought 100 lettuces this weekend for that amount and i planted them on my vegetable garden... Jesus fucking Christ lettuce is literally just water, how the fuck are they selling it that expensive? unless they are driving lettuces from Mexico to America i don't see a reason for that price. How stupid would it be to buy fresh produce from overseas, the very definition of freshness is to consume something right after it's harvested, not something kept artificially lively for days and weeks with chemicals or low temperatures... cope and seethe all you want, but capitalism isn't it, we need a new system, we need a system that incentives people to look after themselves, we need to put people at the top of society and everything else should exist to serve the people, not the other way around.

>>50022953
Euro fag here, I married my teenage crush and we have 3 kids together.
I run my own small business make about 6k a month, that is about 4500 after taxes and right offs.
House, car, wife and kids is about 3100 month.
It is entirely possible, it also is alot of work.
No vacation no sickdays etc

>>50022953
>possible to be breadwinner anymore?
Yes but you have to get a good job.

>>50026073
Also im 26, wife wants 2 more dont know if ill manage that

>>50026012
The system doesn't need changing. People just need to exercise their will. Don't like the wagie cage? Simple. Don't walk into it. Learn a trade, go self employed, whatever. If nobody wanted to work for Amazon they wouldn't have a business. People just need to learn to do a 360 and walk away from obvious traps.

>>50022953
you guys have seen lettuce? I've been looking for months

>>50025735
Holy fuck what are you even saying. Have you tried not being a huge faggot for just once in your miserable ass life? Imagine actually shilling for the head of the world economic forum and big time globalist.

>>50026106
You literally just need a job. Not even that. Plenty of people raise massive families on welfare in some real shitholes.

>>50026154
>taking 3 boomers dressed as sith seriously

It's theatre, anon, and you're a child for thinking it's real.

>>50025895
my perspective has always been that gold is an overvalued shiny rock
the overwhelming majority of gold is used either as jewelry or for investment
if things actually get bad i do not see why people would suddenly fomo into gold and the demand for jewelry will obviously fall
>b-but gold has always been valuable!
yes it has
it was also the basis for currency until less than a century ago
there is zero possibility that we ever return to a gold standard that is even more fantastical than mad max world
this is anecdotal and not substantial but i also don't think gold has the same allure to young people that it did to boomers and while young people are stupid and change i don't think this will

commodities are a hedge imo though so i don't think much about them
silver, lithium, and energy all seem much more likely candidates to me as a random idiot

>>50026188
Gold is fine. It's quantifiable, portable and internationally recognised. That's all I care about

>>50023558
Anon, there's a reason that nearly every Russian and Ukrainian woman I have dated (which has been unfortunately a disproportionate amount of the total) has told me they want to be childless. I'm talking the sweetest, softest, fertility-signalling hipped women. Life experience there is enough to turn you off from it forever.

>>50023558
We have annual property taxes. Without that I would love like a pleb king in flyover and have young Aryan chilluns

>>50026223
so is every commodity
i don't plan on smuggling myself out of botswana so i don't really care about those things though
i just want the line to go up

I make around 80k and it's fine in a cheap CoL state.
Wife cooks all meals, and we grow a lot of vegetables ourselves. We wouldn't be able to survive if we were ordering food.
My biggest worry is medical expenses. My daughter has several health issues, and I've heard too many stories of people being wiped out because of a single hospital visit. I wish that all the money I throw towards insurance would be enough to give me some peace of mind, but the reality is that these insurance companies are worse than worthless.

>>50026287
flyover is like the one play you could homestead and avoid property tax
also property tax is tied directly to the property value so in flyover it's way less
this reasoning makes no sense

>>50024038
Negrito, the 50th percentile in America is $44k annually, per household. That's broke as fuck, since the average is $63k. That gap between the average and the 50th percentile will only continue to grow as the rich get richer and inflation decreases the purchasing parity of the poor.

>>50022953
Sure. I could have had a kid when I was making 70k and living in a coastal city with my wife and was paying like 2k/month for rent and it wouldn't have a significant impact on my bottom line.

Having kids is easier and cheaper than people make it out to be. But if one of you is making <30-40k, then that person should probably quit their job and do the stay at home parenting thing. Daycare is fucking stupid.

>>50022953

>>50026323
Your reasoning makes no sense anon. I don't want to live like a sharecropper in the middle of nowhere on shit wages, paying taxes for essentially nothing in return. Otherwise "homesteading" (doing nothing) would be ideal. Annual property taxes is some 3rd world tier pound of flesh bullshit that disturbs an Anglo BVLL such as myself.

>>50023743
If I could add something:
Show them love. Don't be gay, don't be /too/ soft, but make sure they feel you truly care for them. My dad died last month, and though I had a hard relationship with him at times, it is what I am most grateful for. My mother is a BPD bitch who did this push-pull routine and administered some tough-love when I was a kid. My father's affection was direct and consistent. While I struggle with depression and a loss of hope in dealing with what our generation has been handed, he was always trying to be positive and supported me in this very subtle way. I didn't realize how proud he was of me until the funeral, and all his friends told me. He was there for me since day one.

>>50022953
I am a breadwinner. I support my wife and 3 kids on my salary. We live in a 5 bed 3 bath home. I am an industrial electrician. I am going to tell you exactly how to do it.
>We are really trying to budget and save
Stop. That is peasant mentality and it will never get you anywhere. You dont need to save what you have, you need to make more until actively saving isn’t necessary. Inflation is a game played by the Government to keep people who think like you enslaved. If you are struggling to afford a lifestyle, either live a different lifestyle or make more money, or (preferably)both. Cancel every subscription service you pay for unless it is necessary to operation in society. Basically cell phone and utilities only. If you are not rich, you should not have a monthly car payment. Drive a <$1k beater from craigslist until the doors fall off, then learn how to repair car doors yourself and drive it another 100k miles. I dont know much about your job, but you need to get a new one. Move to an area with a low cost of living like “flyover” states, and get the highest paying job you are qualified to hold. Never mind this “im building a resume” shit. Go. Fucking. Get. It. NOW. If you get turned down look for another employer. Once you feel like you have the highest paying job you can get, now its time to start building more income streams. Develop a skill, learn how to invest, start a business, whatever you can do to make more money. This is not an issue of whether or not you are able to do this. Its whether you want to. Any idiot can do everything I just said with minimal resistance, most just dont want to.

>>50026553
Many jobs pay pretty much the same salary regardless of what the local cost of living is. Any remote work job should be like this, as well as any job that is reasonably “in demand”. If your job pays substantially less in an area with a lower cost of living, you are a disposable wagie and need to get a different job. Do a job that entitled faggots wont touch, theres a lot of them and you will become central to the operation of the business in short order.

>>50026470
>Whatever dream people used to have about what their lives were going to be will become for them a distant memory
I'm definitely feeling this, I gave up a lot of my hobbies this year because my job got a lot more demanding

>>50026637
I'd also add not buying shit like alcohol and weed too much to this list. Having a drink every once in a while is fine, but a lot of people will just spend all their spare money on beer and weed every paycheck and then wonder why their balance is in the single digits at the end of the month.

>>50026740
I'm not a wagie. My business relies on irl customers though so flyover pleb king life... It's just a dream for now.

>>50026748
Also good advice. Weed and alcohol is for well after you are rolling in cash. Its a reward for making it there, not something to be indulged in during the journey.

>>50026838
Flyovers have dense population centers. Even in Iowa or Wyoming you could find a large enough customer base somewhere. Theres a very wide range between New York City and Bumfugg Nebraska.

>>50022953
works if u work 6 days a week, 2 jobs. spend rest day with ur housewife and homeschooled kids

>>50025097
It’s really not that hard. Only consoooomers think raising kids is really expensive because they buy them massive wardrobes and tons of toys and electronics. Kids don’t need to consooom to be happy, just loving parents. Ask anyone who grew up poor. I had a mattress on the floor, one pair of shoes, and my prized possession was my xbox which I held on to for 8 years and I would say I had a great childhood with my dad even though we were broke.

>>50026875
This is also a stupid poor person mentality. Working more is retarded. Get paid more for the work you do, and try to work less to focus on making money outside of work. Beating yourself up and working 60+ hours a week for a pittance is retarded, and a sure fire way to make sure you dont have time to figure out how to escape that lifestyle. Learn a skill that nobody wants to do. Take an apprenticeship diving into sewers or some shit. Then try to figure out how to make the most money doing that as possible while working 4 days a week. If diving into sewers pays shit, then try to get a job doing something else equally unappealing. Try to work your way out of the dirty work part of it if it bothers you, but dont depend on it. Nut up or shut up and go get paid.

>>50023642
Your fucked.

>>50026867
Sounds like some kind of gay suburbanoid "life" desu. I want to move to the Rockies or the Ozarks so I can roast wild deer and pigs, shoot arrows at random trees, piss off my back porch and etc without Karen breathing down my neck.

>>50026999
those fantasy jobs dont exist other than working on an oilrig but thats gonna put you even further away from ur wife and kids

>>50027158
Thats basically what I do but in Wisconsin. Shooting arrows at trees is a good way to break your arrows though. You should buy a target, or shoot at live game. I recommend “the black hole” but any archery target will do.

>>50027229
Wrong faggot. Mechanics make good money and its a 1 year certification to get your foot in the door, but most factories are desperate and will take you with no qualifications if you show a mechanical aptitude. Lie on your resume if you have to, to get an interview. Or you could be a lumberjack. Or a septic tank pumper. Or any number of jobs that require skill or strength that most people consider themselves too good for. Thats where the money is. Boomers are retiring from these fields. There are plenty of jobs like this and they pay well. Yes, not all of them pay well, dont bother with the ones that dont.

>>50023075
As a parent, what fake internet money do you hold?

>>50027346
most of those jobs pay shit and work you ragged. my dad has been an factory mechanic/millwright for 30 years. he worked swing shift for half of my childhoold. i worked as a machine operator in the same factory for a few years, they worked us production wagies just as hard, too.

getting a mythical wfh white collar job is the only way to have a high salary in a low cost of living area without being worked to death.

>>50022953
Many boomers really are oblivious and delusional and are living in an entirely different world than the young people and then they have the audacity to remain ignorant spoiled dumbfucks

>>50027401
You are speaking to an industrial electrician who works 3-4 days a week and makes six figures. Yes, shit factory jobs exist. Your father found one and got comfortable so he never left. Keep looking. I 100% guarantee you they are out there. You might have to move/commute, but they exist in low cost of living areas. I know people who are welders with zero formal education who make $75k a year. You are making excuses to feel sorry for yourself. Thats poor people shit. Get that money and shut the fuck up about how life isnt fair.

>>50026470
collapse? It already happened, just look at any picture in the usa from 1950-1970 and see it with fresh eyes. The only metric that life has gotten better is technology and the stock market, but these only benefit the rich just like the gilded age. Even being rich is not enough, I finally made it in my mid 30s and now I look to start a family and I am supposed to take a reformed church girl (retired slut) and try to have 1 maybe 2 possible autistic kids with her while she has all the rights to take 1/2 my shit and has all the authority over the children? The high school and college women will make not so subtle advances on me, but they think a serious relationship is taboo.

red skull was right
The only way to make it is to be born to a wealthy family and marry your high school/ college sweetheart, otherwise you are jsut left with fool's prizes.

>>50027574
The point that I am trying to make here is absolutely nobody should settle for shit pay. Forget about what job you “want” to do. Find a job that pays well and do it. The task is irrelevant. Then find out how you can make more money. Start a business around said task, climb the corporate ladder, whatever it takes. Money is the motive.

>>50027574
you're looking at it from a n=1 perspective. the vast majority of factories work you like a plantation field nigger. i took the path of least resistance and got a wfh job with a degree.

>>50025821
>be born midwit
no amount of money will make anything other than a slave out of it

>>50027574
where i live industrial electrician average monthly pay before taxes is 3600 euros. 3700 euros is the average monthly pay, any job, in the country.

>>50027722
Can you read? Dont. Take. Those. Jobs. Its not rocket science. Im not saying you have to limit it to factories either. The money is where the demand for workers is. The demand for workers is where the jobs nobody wants are. Have fun with your $55k a year office job i guess.
>>50027797
I have no idea what you are trying to say here, I operate in real (fiat)money, not your weird seashells.

>>50027938
retard animal

>>50026073
ayy sounds dope man albeit alot of work
>>50026299
good shit man and congrats on having a nice set up. we definitely want to expand on gardening. our current apartment has a little yard that we share with upstairs tenants. we have some veggies but want more when we move apartments
>>50026409
makes sense and true we arent in love with daycare being a secondary parent. very grateful that we have her parents and mine though who are going to move wherever we move. and we have her siblings
>>50026470
jfc
>>50026637
wow man congratulations and that’s cool you do that for a career, what is being an electrician like? the trade that stands out the most to me is commercial diving. but anyway makes sense and i think you’re right. i constantly feel like i am slipping further and further into society’s mold and i hate it. not to sound edgy. any reccomendation for states to move to? and what do you reccomend for applying to jobs and getting through the online application wall? i applied to 2,000 jobs beforr i got this one on linkedin and indeed, and it sucked dick. thanks again bro thats motivating af. and i will say this that neither of us are obsessed with streaming services or beer or weed or etc so luckily we save for that.
>>50026740
in your opinion what are some of the best jobs that are like that that the wagies won’t touch?
>>50026924
that’s how me and my girl hope to be as parents. a focus on experiences and simple pleasures instead of pure constant unadulterated consumerism
>>50026999
trips of truth

>>50027797
Oh wait, i got you. Then that means that job market is saturated. Be something else. I am by no means recommending you become an electrician. Find what pays well, do that, find a way to work less. Read the thread europoor.

>>50027938
>Dont. Take. Those. Jobs.
hey nigger retard, when you live in an area with 6 factories and warehouse within a 1 hour one-way commute and they all want 50 hours a week minimum out of you, you don't have much of a fucking choice, now do you?
>Have fun with your $55k a year office job i guess.
i'm at nearly double that and i'm 4 years into my career. keep coping.

>>50027346
You have an impractical view of manual labor.

>>50027961
>what is being an electrician like?
Its pretty varied depending on what you want to do. Residential electricians have a braindead easy job, but requires more certifications than industrial electricians. You dont make bank doing residential shit until you are a master electrician, but then you can start your own business wiring up houses. Even some industrial electricians dont make much, but the pay scales with the difficulty/danger/importance of the equipment you service.
>in your opinion what are some of the best jobs that are like that that the wagies won’t touch?
Hard to say for sure. In my case I work on high voltage shit, which scares off most people. Normies are pussies so anywhere that there is perceived danger is a good place to look. My job isn’t actually that dangerous, because there are all sorts of controls in place to make sure we dont die. The only time there’s fatalities is when people dont follow procedures. It really depends on the job market in that specific area though. Working oil fields seems to pay good money everywhere, but there is actual danger in that. Same with mines.

>>50028123
I do it every day. Cancel your gym membership and get a mans job.

>>50028022
>when you live in an area with 6 factories and warehouse within a 1 hour one-way commute and they all want 50 hours a week minimum out of you, you don't have much of a fucking choice, now do you?
Moving is always a choice. If you want to make money, make changes. Sounds like you did fine anyway. Not sure what you are bitching about.

No because women decided they had to work also so now everything is x2 priced

>>50023507
>i keep hearing this not just on here but elsewhere too. is there any hope itll go back in your opinion?

Absolutely not within our lifetimes, if ever. The change that resulted in the need for two-parent incomes was not purely economic but social as well. The introduction of women into the workforce radically reduced the value of labor and thus drove wages into the floor. Coupled with unchecked immigration further diluting its value, and the increase in efficiency brought on by technological innovation, it should be clear even to a layman that the possibility of the average man being a breadwinner is a pipe dream. The stay-at-home wife in a nice house, town car, white picket fence, with four kids and a dog is over. Some people do live those lives, but they are not the norm as they used to be, and likely never will be again.

With continued technological advancement further rendering labor redundant, I can see a future wherein both parents reside at home and care for children while performing gig work that has not yet or cannot be trivialized by some AI or robotics. However, I am not very optimistic of such a time, because it will likely be a dystopian hell. But we will probably not live to see it so it is irrelevant.

>I keep having this dreadful thought that if we are struggling right now, what’s going to happen when we have kids.

It's not a dreadful thought, it's reality. This is really going to come down to what kind of quality of life you two agree on. Maryland is the 7th most expensive state, just after Alaska and before Connectishit. Prices are 24% higher than the national average, housing prices are 66% higher. The only thing sort of cheap is healthcare. 'The median income for a family of four is $130,252 annually, substantially more than the $100,959 needed to make ends meet for a household with two working adults. My family (wife+child) live outside Baltimore with a combined income of about $130k. We could make it work if only one of us was earning $70k but it would be tight. If you want 4 kids, you either need to learn a trade or really build out your career path to earn more if you don't want your wife to work. Otherwise, she's going to need to contribute. Childcare is about $225 weekly. If you have free family babysitting, that's great. If you don't, that's a huge blow to a one income household.

What >>50023642 said is correct. Kids are energy/attention hogs. There's no problem with dreaming big, but you need to make the steps to see how much stress your relationship can take. You need to figure out if you need to stay in Maryland, because to be blatantly honest, you can't afford a house on $52k in this state that's not a shithole. Homestead/Renoing sounds cute, but it's essentially another fulltime job with expenses to do. If you two are fine living in a 2bdr apartment with 2-4 kids with very little time and money for luxuries, this isn't terrible. If you want to have a house and celebrate Christmas, you need job hop and continue to up your salary as does she.

If it wasn't for amazing friends(super gay), we wouldn't be living in Maryland. Too expensive for what it is.

>>50028372
>Childcare is about $225 weekly. If you have free family babysitting, that's great. If you don't, that's a huge blow to a one income household.
If you have one income that your wife depends on, you have free childcare. But semantics aside i agree with basically all of this.

I have given up on the concept of having children. I am the last male in my family line. I am the final nail in the coffin. My father has 2 bothers, one of them turned out to be sterile, the other had two daughters. My parents had two daughters and then me. I can't afford to buy a home let alone raise a kid. It makes me incredibly depressed to know I'm the end.

>>50026924
agreed, with income based apartments and welfare it is never easier financially to raise children; however, women and especially white ones wont take this route because they are overly concerned with status. The better quality they are, the more likely they wont accept welfare until they are in their 30s and tired of wageslaving.

The young ones will fuck you, but few want a relationship, and none want children.

>>50028268
This. These pathetic motherfuckers don't even have the backbone to up sticks to a more favourable location. Imagine caveman times and ug doesn't want to leave mom's cave despite the water levels rising.

>>50023036
>while also still being there for them emotionally and for quality time?
Honestly, that wasn't even really possible back in the 1950s. You had a single earner so that earner isn't available a lot and is tired when he get's home. The wife would carry some of the load by taking care of the house. You had a lot of time with your mother I guess.

>>50028811
>just move
In the context of this thread this is not a solution. Do you not own real estate? Does your wife not work? Do your kids not go to school? Do you have no friends or family?

If you were on the /single friendless male general/ I would agree, but this is not even in good faith for an OP larping as a boomer.

>>50022953
Socialist policies.
You don't have any idea how much they actually cost.

>>50026179
Try saying nigger on Twitter and tell me it's theatre

>>50029841
What exactly has posting an ethnic slur got to do with belief or non-belief in the motives of ze bugs man?

>>50029130
Dust bowlers did exactly that, retard. If life is so fucking hard you make the decision and relocate.

>>50022953
>24 and already starting a family

>>50028268
>bro I know you don't have money bro but just move bro, like just upend your entire life and take a risk somewhere in the midwest IDK bro

there's always that guy every fucking thread lmao

>>50028366
im not really optimisitc of it either. seems like the only escape is either moneymaxx or go off grid
>>50028372
ah fellow marylander nice. but seriously thanks for the advice and the information that means alot and it gives me alot to think about. luckily we do want to move because like you said for the price, maryland doesn’t offer much. especially baltimore city. we also luckily will habe built in babysitters in the form of our family but yeah still i am definitely realizing i am going to have to sort out the game plan and also compromise here and there. i have alot of goals that can make money aside from my career goals so i think i’ll give then some thought to boost income as well. thanks a million
>>50028610
im the last of the line too it sucks but i think we’ll make it even if its with the skin of our teeth

>>50029916
More people did NOT. This is such a fucking ingenuous argument. Most people do not roam about the world looking for a place to possibly afford a house. And for the record, that was the largest migration in human history, and most of these people did NOT lead successful lives in California but suffered immensely. Is it sometimes beneficial to move? Yes, no one will argue that. But most of them should search for keys to success to remain in their communities, because you're not guaranteed success moving to a new area away from everyone and everything you have ever known.

>>50029916
Statistically, they didn't and it didn't help. The cope didn't even work a century ago.

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread?

>own home near the coast
>3 kids, 4th on the way
>breadwinner
have i made it?

>>50023642
You've summed up my thoughts on modern parenthood. Thanks anon

>>50030723
you have imo. any tips or advice? what do you do for a career?

>>50028366
>The stay-at-home wife in a nice house, town car, white picket fence, with four kids and a dog is over. Some people do live those lives, but they are not the norm as they used to be, and likely never will be again.
I think there are other forms of living that we can find, if we are to smash the system. There's a girl I've had an on-off thing with for years now, Russian. She's a data scientist, very sober-minded and demure. We talk a lot about the past. She's younger than me but her parents were quite young when they had her, and so they were prime witnesses for the Soviet system. The way she says it, women being in the workforce there wasn't so bad. Plenty had lots of kids, the kids didn't always end up broken (most of what fucks Russians is that they have high endemic levels of heritable mental illness because there was probably a selective sweep for batshit people who could tolerate the hardships of famine, an apocalyptic war halfway through the 20th century, etc. and alcoholism), and in many ways their communities are stronger than ours. Multigenerational households, or something close to, are still very common there. They failed at the maintenance of the right to private property while retaining other desirable features of the past. That 50's life was already pozzed to fuck mostly for the embrace of vapid consumerism. In the midcentury world you find the foundations of globohomo. One thing you are absolutely right about is immigration. We need to expel as many as we can, and close the doors. As long as there's a pressure release valve on labour for employers, we'll never be able to bargain for anything. The upper 20-30% of women with g coefficients within the median and above male range should be allowed to continue working, because their productivity is still valuable. In fact, I think their reproduction should be subsidized; women are only stupid because we continue to let a majority of women reproduce. There isn't enough selection.

>>50022953
Takes a lottery win these days, anon. Believe me, I want nothing more.

>>50030761
work in IT, mostly remote these days so i get to spend a lot of time with the family. no useful tips other than i think i have been lucky a lot of the time. wouldnt take my advice though because even though i am finally out of debt except a mortgage i have fuck all for savings even though i make good money. will finally have enough expendable income to try to accumulate enough to make it during this bear market though.

How do I get a gf???

>>50030853
Get a wife first, it's like training wheels. Will be expensive to take off tho.

>>50030799
>we continue to let a majority of women reproduce. There isn't enough selection.
We can't maintain positive birth rates /anywhere/ with zero selection. The idea you could ever implement any policy meaningful enough, while women have a democratic majority everywhere, is nonsense.

We're at the point that the best, fastest, easiest, AND more certain solution is artificial wombs. That's how broken we are.

>>50030844
>mostly remote
This is going far off on a tangent for this thread, but it's been something I've been thinking a lot about. Am I being hyperbolic in my thinking that WFH is going to create a new generational wealth gap? If you're in a career field where you can WFH and can can choose to live in a nice LCOL town in the Midwest but make HCOL wages within a generation currently "normal" middle class families with two parents who WFH are going to be astronomically ahead compared to luddites with two parents that have to drive to and from work every day. Not only are there the immense savings gain but there is a massive family life gain as well. This seems like its going to absolutely destroy the middle class by creating a huge wedge. Is there an event like this that's happened before that segmented the middle class along such lines? Am I really being too hyperbolic in my thinking that this is going to shatter the middle class right down the middle and push people further into poverty?

>>50030969
With subsidy, I think you could. Pay them, as soulless as that is. Give smart women large incentives to bear extra kids. People respond to positive incentives. Turn all the retarded and normie ones into wetmaids who provide the milk and care. What are they gonna do? They're weaker than men and smart women. Lower test, smaller brains, etc. A program like this could also be used to counteract some of the maladaptive selection women perform on men. Betas come from chads fucking women who are carriers for all sorts of deleterious traits. In our species, women are the barrier and the filter to reproduction, as well as a reservoir for weakness and sickliness. Take that away from them, because their desires have nothing to do with virtue or spirit or power in any domain beyond the physical.

>>50023589
Forklift drivers are the most powerful race

>>50022953
Two words: welfare fraud

Thats how all the immigrants and kikes do it.

>>50031196
The issue isn't whether or not such a policy could plausibly work. The issue is that such a policy could not ever exist. We cannot obtain such a state, not anywhere. And if you could, you wouldn't need it anyway.

finally a decent thread. Figure this is a good place to ask this. I'm in the predicament of choosing between to good girls. One is in the med school process, the other working at a startup (almost C-suite). Money won't be an issue except the med school girl does come from an affluent family. I autistically created a valuation model based upon criteria that I consider most important, pic related. K is clearly in the lead, but I'd like to see what successfully married anons think.

>>50031301
you forgot a few demographics, but you're not wrong

>>50031344

>>50031344
>self-awareness
The irony is palpable
>negative 5 for family, set weighting low tho
Bro you are bending over backwards for K. Why would you ask this here? You'll regret your decision no matter what you do.

>>50030502
You're the disingenuous fuck. Migration occurred within dustbowl states county to county and people who migrated largely ended up in better socioeconomic conditions. Migrants on the whole, improved their lot.

>>50031327
>The issue is that such a policy could not ever exist. We cannot obtain such a state, not anywhere
I'm going to wryly refer to a cliché: Not with that attitude.

>>50031301
Anyone find it hilarious that white people cringe at the idea of using these tax draining safety nets? Like the government literally doesn't stop you from using them and many working class white Americans are capable of getting access to them.
But they refuse, while minorities suck them dry.

The kike has really created the ultimate system here.

>>50022953
I unironically just want to be Don Draper tier
>rich
>enough money to have fun with my pals doing wealthy guy stuff after work
>financially stable family
>so much money that i can repeatedly have massive existential crises but my friends and family still take me back because i'm useful and again, rich

>>50031542
I'm just apply numbers to my intuition, idk what's so wrong about this. It's just an exercise.

When I compare all attributes to each other it forces you to make compromises. I value every attribute above more than their family. I gave them a -5 because they aren't fun to be around. Why would I regret my decision?

>>50031725
Anon how can you be a Based Individualist if you're not slaving away to prove to yourself what a badass you are??? Stop "reacting to material reality" and start thinking in terms of ideals already.

>>50022953
>I make 52k a year
Anon, stop working at Taco Bell.

>>50027615
fake

>>50031653
Shut the fuck up retard, by the 40s almost 3 million had moved out of their state of origin and over 10% moved to states like California where they were treated like homeless refuse, which they mostly were. They only improved in the sense that they didn't fucking die due to ecological disaster, which is not something that 99.99% of anyone in America is experiencing at any given time. Many and more of them worked at ridiculously low wages barely making ends meet for the remainder of their short lives.

>>50031791
It's even worse that white women cringe at it the most.
Like you can be making a certain amount of decent income and they're still like "oh no he can't just get free shit from the government!".
There is a difference between being DEPENDENT on the government and getting FREE SHIT from the government.

>>50023744
If you had spend those years getting up into operations in the factory, what would you have been making?
Not as comfy as working from home, but becoming a plant operator from a forklift job is probably a more realistic option for most people. Just don't do it in some super automated environment like Amazon.

>>50031678
What's the method then? This never happened even when women literally didn't vote.

Are you going to militarize and overthrow your governments on the basis of removing womens suffrage and implementing your eugenics programs? Even if your thought experiments immediately accomplished everything you intend, it's masturbatory because you cannot implement it. It is far more reasonable to appeal to technological solutions or divine intervention or something that could actually work.

It is true women are reservoirs of weakness, but so are men: Men are fucking desperate to excuse women. If you want a eugenics program, you don't need to have millions of people fight and win a revolution for you just to beg the intelligent women to not cause human extinction. It would be much more effective to run sperm banks or artificial wombs or popularize a fertility cult.

>>50031779
>Applying numbers
Please look up some actual decision theory and then post it on another board. If you don't see the problem of applying negative numbers you're probably not gonna value any more nuanced discussion, esp. if you've never been married before.

>>50031917
>Many and more of them worked at ridiculously low wages barely making ends meet for the remainder of their short lives.

So they survived the greatest ecological disaster of the century and earned enough money to sustain their progeny. Got it. Might as well have just killed themselves, right?

>>50032034
>If you had spend those years getting up into operations in the factory, what would you have been making?
machine operators top out at like $22/hour. higher paying non-management roles are industrial mechanic and electricial but they top out at like $30/hour. the pay isn't that great. and the lifestyle is shit.

>>50032420
They being the ones that survived? Yes. I am sure some North Koreans in labor camps manage to escape and live in the forest living on berries in the trees. They still led shitty lives and appealing to Dust Bowl farmers that migrated like they are anything to emulate is fucking hilarious. One was a migration of necessity brought on by catastrophe, another is a suggested relocation because the poster is a huge retard that refuses to understand the issue.