/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>49902664
bitcoin makes monero obsolete. RGB on Lightning Network will have Monero level privacy

>>49902693
>>49902664
but yes, i respect monero more than i respect the other altcoins

>>49902693
why not just use monero, though?

>>49902736
the strength of the network is stronger, the dev team is stronger. Most concepts of Monero have been stolen from BIP sumbissions.

>>49902664
No need to fight, everybody knows you are meant to accumulate sats

>>49902736
also the stock-to-flow model for monero sucks compared to BTC

>>49902736
>>49902800
>>49902806
While we argue about silver vs gold, the paper money people are continuing to co-opt crypto. Just let it go for now.

I think you're literally supposed to use both of them, guys.

>>49902693
So what happens when centralized exchanges start using the new privacy features to hide how much Bitcoin liquidity they actually have? (Like they already do with Monero)

>>49902693
>Using a stapled-on layer 2 solution with dubious decentralization
>Instead of just using a privacy coin
Hard pass, Maxi. Hard pass.

Why yes I do own only BTC and XMR how could you tell

>>49902664
the only thing bitcoin is good for is trading since it has a pair/brige with basically everything. i only use it when i have to.

>>49902664
Fuck off. You know damn well there can only be one. XMR > Bitchcoin

>>49902693
>bitcoin makes monero obsolete. RGB on Lightning Network will have Monero level privacy


LMFAO what is an attack surface? Go ask the OPSEC gurus on the darknet about RGB and report back.

>>49902693
Retarded

>>49902693
>"""monero level privacy"""
>it's just MWEB
kek

>>49902882

>>49903035
Why used an inferior "currency" like Bitcoin, everything you do on the network is subject to surveillance and/or censorship.

>>49903457
If you autistically force the issue, that there can be only one, then that one will probably be Bitcoin from mass and momentum alone. We've had a bimetallic standard in the past. I don't see why we can't have the same with crypto.

>>49902664
Yes! Finally. Let's join forces to destroy Ethereum, cardano, Solana, and the rest of the trash in this industry

>>49902693
>just use centralised dogshit
Lel

>>49902664
Aye
Those of us who agree are usually silent and don't participate in the screeching wars
Bitcoin is the original, the hardest asset known to man, the perfect project (except for privacy but hopeful w/ lightning)
Monero is one of the few and far between altcoins that has a right to exist, it fills the niche that Bitcoin did on the silk road and complements Bitcoin outstandingly with atomic swaps allowing Bitcoin to be a regulatory trojan horse of sorts for privacy

>>49902664
the long term use of both of these coins is solely a contribution to nothing but the black market trade Industry

>>49904433

nice drop at the end.

>>49902664
Monero feds shit all over and lie about everything that's not Monero because they want you to stay on their little fed monitored, bot mined plantation.

>>49904433
So?

>>49904655
>Monero feds shit all over and lie about everything that's not Monero because they want you to stay on their little fed monitored, bot mined plantation.

>the long term use of both of these coins is solely a contribution to nothing but the black market trade Industry

>>49902693
this will unironically be the death of BTC

>>49902693
neato except for lightning. would prefer a private native, xmr, arrr, hush, xhv, dero, others

As soon as my shitcoins pump, I'm gonna buy monero to keep it.

>>49904655
Mind telling me what's in this wallet then?
48jewbtxe4jU3MnzJFjTs3gVFWh2nRrAMWdUuUd7Ubo375LL4SjLTnMRKBrXburvEh38QSNLrJy3EateykVCypnm6gcT9bh

Should be easy if it's a Fed honeypot

>>49902800
(1/2)
>the strength of the network is stronger, the dev team is stronger
I thought you were talking about Monero for a sec. But what have the Bitcoin devs been up to the last couple of years? Securing their million dollar bags? Posting shit takes on Twitter? Maybe some corpo-backed work on the LN. Also
>the strength of the network is stronger
Seriously? Think before you act and read before you post.
>Most concepts of Monero have been stolen from BIP submissions.
That is just simply false. On top of my head there are 2 rejected BIPs that were later taken, improved, and implemented. Dandelion and lmdb. Dandelion was rejected because of """node DOS concerns""". Monero researchers took it, improved it, found flaws in them, fixed the flaws instead of abandoning the entire thing, and made today's version. This is why it is called Dandelion++ and not simply Dandelion. Piracy is closer to stealing than this.

>>49902800
>>49905755
(2/2)
The second one is lmdb, afaik some obscure Bitcoin node implementations use it (but like 99% is Bitcoin core and 0.7% libbitcoin the last time I checked), but it works way better on Monero's blockchain, because of Monero's chain being structured and ordered in a different manner. Again, I don't see how "stealing" would apply, the codebase was done by Monero devs and researchers, they do not claim that they invented it. Also I might be wrong but lmdb in general is not even a cryptocurrency technology, but rather simply databases.
Technology is not property. If you build a wheel, and some other people see it and build and improved version. That is not stealing from you. Otherwise, all our current technology is stolen from some cavemen. If anything these 2 are examples of Bitcoin's lack of research and development. The last completely new concept on Bitcoin I saw was CoinPool, seriously flawed, on L2 (and L3), and it was maybe February of this year. The last completely new concept I saw for Monero was PLSAG, a completely new type of transaction of L1. This was maybe a few days ago in the #monero-researchlab room.
P.S. ZMQ or 0ZQ might be another one but neither Monero or Bitcoin use it. And it isn't a BIP, I don't even think it came from the cryptocurrency sector. Quite possibly the only usage outside of privately kept custom wallets is p2pool on Monero.

>>49902664
agreed
BTC is the normie friendly store of value
XMR is the privacy tool for spending and evading
WOW is our memecoin that unironically will outperform doge in the long run

>>49905536
Is that you Luke Smith?

>>49902693
>>49902736
>>49902800
The problem with monero is precisely the lack of transparency. There are several uses of money that are impossible to go forward if the entire market is a black box.

Thing of it this way: you don't want Joe Biden to fuck you up; you can't do it if his wallet is a black box; public view keys don't do it either since he can change addr.

>>49902693
>>49902736
>>49902800
The problem with monero is precisely the lack of transparency. There are several uses of money that are impossible to go forward if the entire market is a black box.

Think of it this way: you don't want Joe Biden to fuck you up; you can't do it if his wallet is a black box; public view keys don't cut it either since he can change addr.

>>49906077
>>49906094
lol Joe can fuck you up if he can see everything you do.

stop licking the boot faggot.

>>49906133
That's like saying giving nukes to the criminals is fine, as long as you get a slingshot.

If the market becomes a black box then the whales will rape you in secret.

>>49904076
This.
We Bitcoin and Monero chads shall unite once for all to destroy the abominations like >>49904076 anon has cited.
No more brother wars you guy.s

>>49902732
I bet you with regulation coming to crypto. Monero maxist will shit at their pants as they begin to see exchange delist the coin. I will diversify into other gems like RFOX, MAHA, BEL and RIDE if I were you.

>>49906590
>Shitcoiners never lose one opportunity to shill their shitcoins

Every single time.

>>49906746
These bags will offer a good return of investment in the next bull run with metaverse still part of the major narratives but you will miss out on them simply because you are retarded.

>>49904353
We did make a big deal about the implementation of atomic swaps, so even if people like to shit on BTC, it does take a lot of heat off Monero. The way things are going with increased regulation, Bitcoin is necessary to Monero's survival, and Monero is necessary for keeping crypto from becoming too cucked.

>>49903945
It cannot be done because Bitcoin lacks the fundamentals to be a proper currency/money. It's already old technology by today's standards and tech always needs to be upgraded in order to stay ahead of the competition. Everything bitcoin does, Monero does it better.

>>49906830
>I will diversify into other gems like R

>>49906094
>The problem with monero is precisely the lack of transparency.
This is not an issue since Monero is optionally transparent, with the secret viewkey you can reveal all of your transactions.
Cash is also untraceable and you can withdraw and deposit this at a bank while complying with AML laws.

Pick up the remaining 2 brain cells and do your own research on both basic economics and Monero before spouting this utter foolishness.

>>49906590
>maxist will shit at their pants as they begin to see exchange delist the coin.
LMAO, as if delisting/banning Monero from exchanges would work. This would only make the final nail in the coffin as to how superior Monero really is, it would also be more scarce due to less availability therefore raising its price even further.
You're quite dumb, no rational thought behind that statement whatsoever. You shitcoin shillers are all cut from the same cloth. You're embarrassing.

>>49907140
Bitcoin and Monero both exceed in some ways, ways that complement each other. They're both necessary for different things.

It sucks that Bitcoin will likely be co-opted by the central banks, but I prefer that they adopt Bitcoin, instead of continuing with the fiat system. And Bitcoin being public makes auditing these banks easier.

Plus, since Bitcoin doesn't change means I know how it will operate 50 years from now. I know it'll always be the most secure cryptocurrency. And like gold, I can put some aside for my great-grandchildren, without having to worry about forks or massive protocol changes.

But for everyday use by normal people, I get why Monero is superior, being private, harder to censor, and garnering greater demand as other cryptos get cucked.

>>49906590
>Monero maxist will shit at their pants as they begin to see exchange delist the coin.

lol Monero has been getting delisted for years now, no big deal. And a lot of us are accelerationists who actually WANT Monero fully delisted, using centralized exchanges defeats the purposes of owning a privacy coin.

>>49907498
Pretty much, Both are the only usable and truly cryptocurrency out there I think we should unite as much as possible for a good great.
Hopefully someday bitcoin catch up and becomes just as private on second layers..
I remember back in the days when all these fast transaction coins came out and people thought it would kill bitcoin lmao, then bitcoin came out with LN and threw them away...
For now monero does what it came to do but in the future we never know.. I personally like Bitcoin more for the same reasons you mentioned it's more secure.

>>49907498
>since Bitcoin doesn't change means I know how it will operate 50 years from now.
Do you?
There is big instability coming with reduced block rewards. Luckily Litecoin will feel the heat first

>>49907711
Oh yeah "BIG INSTABILITY COMING"
You mean price going up half it's price from 100k to 200k?
Lets hope my friend.

>>49907498
I'll explain to you like you are 12. You CANNOT have a currency or money if its not fungible (interchangeable). Central banks will NEVER adopt is as money or currency because it lacks the fundamentals to do so. The only reason governments would want to declare it as legal tender would be to legally SPY on your financial transactions and where you go/spend your money (since everything is public). This is surveillance at the highest level.

>Plus, since Bitcoin doesn't change means I know how it will operate 50 years from now. I know it'll always be the most secure cryptocurrency.
No change means it does not innovate, which means it'll die. Do you use the same technology from 15 years ago or an improved version of it?
Also since it does not change, in order to provide financial incentives fees will be even more unbearable since mining will become unprofitable. This'll make the network only for rich people to transact - and they won't do so because it's everything's public and they know it.

Gold backed physical cash > physical cash > bitcoin
Bitcoin is fucking useless, the definition of token not needed.

>>49908774
Get out of her jew, we already decided no more brother wars
Stop trying to divide us.
Dirty kike.

>>49906094
Monero doesn't need to become the single world currency, I don't think anyone realistically expects that. But the future of currencies is digital, most people, especially in Europe, already pay everything without physical cash, it's still fiat but digital. In some countries they might very likely phase out physical money altogether, and sooner than expected.

Tell me, what happens in said future if you want to get the services of a hooker or buy marihuana in countries that is not legal? Do you want daddy state or literally everyone in the planet (public ledger) to know the details of it? There is a very human need for privacy, it's not evil, and BTC doesn't fulfill it.

>>49908812
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. All I'm offering is the truth my friend. Don't say you weren't warned when the government knocks on your door for buying something with bitcoin that they don't like. That is, if it's not tainted in the first place.
I'm trying to set you free from financial surveillance, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

>>49907498
Holy cope. I'm not holding your bags. I'd rather go with Monero for the aforementioned reasons.

>>49908812
Stop trying to make it seem like we all came to some consensus, dick.

>>49909012
Maybe second layer privacy features will help on this on.
Right now people aren't asking for privacy, when the time comes I'm pretty sure it will be implemented, it's about demand and time.
I buy most of the things with Bitcoin and stil haven't ad any problem because I do everything right..

And don't take me wrong but if I'm going to buy something illegal i'm pretty sure the government wont be able to know it since the seller and buyer are going to use new wallets and there will be no way for the government to know what these wallets are doing other than just two addresses sending x amount of btc to the other.
Come on, use your brain retard.

The real problem relies when it's a big black market who uses the same wallet for every transaction..

>hey guys, lets stop the shit flinging and focus on the real garbage, PoS, NFTs, smart contracts
>shit flinging intensifies

>>49908836
Does Monero have limitations on the number of tokens it can keep anonymous unlike Railgun that that does not have that barrier. Just so I may know because that is the major reason I connected my wallet to the Railgun platform as I wasnt sure about Monero.

>>49909396
>Maybe second layer privacy features will help on this on.
Any layering solution does not solve underlying issues. It also serves as a greater attack surface.
>Right now people aren't asking for privacy...
They absolutely are and always will be, as darknet markets will always want privacy. There's a reason for btc being displaced for the superior choice.
>I buy most of the things with Bitcoin and stil haven't had any problem because I do everything right
If you buy anything illegal with it, it's bound to happen since it's permanently recorded on the blockchain. If your funds have a history, your transaction can be censored. This happens because every single coin can be traced to its point of origin.
If you go out of your way just to try to have a fraction of "privacy", and also knowing about Monero, YOU are the retard.

>>49910834
>Any layering solution does not solve underlying issues. It also serves as a greater attack surface.
It does fix the problem for fast in and out transactions and back to chain, the problem is when people start holding their btc in the privacy layer.
>There's a reason for btc being displaced for the superior choice.
Bitcoin is not being displaced of course some black markets use monero it's undeniable, but bitcoin is still being hugely used out there.
>If your funds have a history, your transaction can be censored. This happens because every single coin can be traced to its point of origin.
As I said there's no way they will know who those two addressed belong to if the seller & buyer is doing everything correctly.
If they are doing everything correctly all the feds can see is two addresses being transacted and the bitcoin being moved, they can't even know if it's part of a drug deal or not, therefore bitcoin is still usable.
Then one can just wash their bitcoin on LN and all that or just sell it to monero and then buy bitcoin back and voala!! washed up!...

>>49902693

>>49911063
>It does fix the problem for fast in and out transactions and back to chain, the problem is when people start holding their btc in the privacy layer.
Nope, read picrel. Why would you add a layer of "privacy" when Monero already does it at the fundamental level.
>Bitcoin is not being displaced of course some black markets use monero it's undeniable
Yes it is, it's only a matter of time until DNMs become Monero-only. It's the new crypto standard.
>doing everything correctly
Provide evidence to such, you cannot remove the history of the coin idiot. All the mental gymnastics you can do does not matter.
>bitcoin on LN and all that or just sell it to monero and then buy bitcoin back and voala!! washed up
Again with the mental gymnastics. No sane person will do such things when Monero is just send and done. Simplicity is the highest form of sophistication.

>>49909829
>Does Monero have limitations on the number of tokens it can keep anonymous

No. Every transaction is private by default and you can't turn the privacy layer off

>GYM2X

If you look at a lot of the mainstream maxis like Tone Vays, Jimmy Song, Luke Jr, etc. you can see them saying all kinds of false shit about Monero while simultaneously lying about Bitcoin. I don't want to be friends with people who have that kind of moral compass. And I only own Bitcoin and Monero.

>>49905888
checked

>>49902664
I hodl XMR, BTC and SCRT and I don't see any point in shitting on either of them.

>>49907559
Kek this. A lot of monero people are actual cypherpunks dedicated to values like freedom and truth rather than retard moonbois who just want number to go up. They understand that there are more important things at play here, and we are considerably more patient with far longer time horizons

>>49902664
black market monero ASIC's fucked monero up