/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>49821552
>leftists
Modern economic theory is based on Keynes with critics from the Austrians and Chicago school, to some degree. Keynes isn't deboonked, there's as many Keynesians as there are Austrians and Chicago school adherents; not that many. 98% of economists are adhere to modern economic theory.
It's common knowledge and consensus that intervention is required to manage the economy and virtually all central banks follow modern economic theory.
>comic
Lol.

>>49821552
Leftist loves Keynes & Co because it's pro spending and inflation to "stimulate" the economy - aka free shit

>>49821552
Can’t you do the same with gold?

>hey faggot, I’ll give you 20oz of gold to lick my dingle berry taint
>done! I’ll pay you 20 oz of gold to suck my std ridden mysterious green oozing dick with extra blue-green cheese
>done!
>20 min later:
>fuck, I think I’m gonna hurl
>me too
>gold dealer jumps out from the bushes: you’re missing the point. I scammed you both 20% buying my gold, but I’ll buy it back from you at spot-20%

>>49821716
Am I in the right track or did you mean modern monetary theory? So far this all sounds reasonable. MMT not so much.

>>49821552
Why are lolberts comics always so ugly?

>>49821998
No, just standard ass "The government should intervene during economic crisis" not MMT which is "Money isn't real lol we can just spend forever we just have to all agree that it's not real".

>>49821552
It really is a stupid comic. To accept the premise, you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers, when in reality the idea is to stimulate growth by investing into things that have tangible values (like construction, supporting small businesses, etc).

Contrary to libertarians' opinion, roads are useful. Keynesian economics essentially boils down to coordinating investment toward things that grow in value, like planting seeds to grow trees.

>>49822192
The meme that only the government can build roads is also really really stupid (and false).

>>49822192
>actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs
i agree, unfortunately there is a huge amount of wastage as inordinate amounts of cash end up with banks and worthless companies that proceed to run up huge debt bubbles and pump&dump the economy while driving up prices, at which point the fed has to rugpull cash liquidity to try and slow down the death spiral

>>49821552
Ironically the USA is one of the most Keynesian countries on Earth. And both sides of the political isle agree that it is a fundamental pillar of US policy. Defense spending is fundamentally a Keynesian intervention, especially since every Senator and Congressman uses defense procurements to create jobs in their constituency. The US also has the most expensive government-run healthcare system on the planet, creating even more demand from government spending. Austrian/Chicago is a meme politicians like to parade around in speeches, but what they actually vote for is deeply Keynesian.

>muh defense spending
>muh medicare/medicade
>muh infrastructure week
>muh stimulus
Open your eyes, sheeple.

>>49821552
>Has Keynesianism been debunked beyond reasonable doubt?
No monetarist has ever won a war.

Keynesianism is hard to get right, monetarism is consistently wrong.

>>49821552
When I was in college, our political science teacher came in with a box of porcelain plates and smashed them all with a hammer.

Under Keynesian economics, she said, this was a good thing. Because now she needs to buy new plates to replace these and that stimulates the economy.

>>49822930
Both the US and Europe are extremely Keynesian and the most prosperous places on Earth. It's hard to argue against that, and why I asked for an explicit deboonking, if it exists.

yes
come to the actual economics thread
>>49812155

>>49821552
>i've noticed that government propaganda favors the unhinged ramblings of a mathematician which serve its goals
>but has it been debunked?

>>49822387
yes but no one actually wants to live in a libertarian wasteland because they tend to devolve into small african countries complete with warlords.

>>49821552
The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto
https://kevinacarson.org/publication/hir/
In the first chapters he explains the industrial revolution and how Keynesianism is based on the Sloanist system of production that is wrong and when non restricted competition by the state exist it simply impossible to mantain.

>>49823019
It actually does simulate the economy. She would either have to work overhours (assume that's possible in teaching) to afford replacement of plates or would have to cut spending on something unnecessary like netflix (entertainment industry is not producing anything real). All the while facilitating the plate manufacturer to achieve economies of scale.

Have you never heard of Milton Friedman?

>>49822192
theb why are toll roads much better than public roads

>>49823372
They aren't? And the toll is paid to state, while most of tolls are on interstate highways built and maintained by the federal government. The toll money is in no way earmarked to be spent on the road it was collected on, or even roads or infrastructure for that matter.

>>49823621
They sure are in Europe. It's like flying first-class.

>>49821552
Not even Marx has been debunked. The reason, of course, is that economics is not a real science.

>>49823662
Because of regulation. Companies bid for toll roads and they come with a whole lot of red tape and obligations. Actual free-market utilities have never worked out. See British rail network, see US, Indonesian and Brazilian water, etc, etc. Whenever for-profit companies are left free reign they do one thing and one thing only: optimize their profit. Not optimize the service, not optimize reliability, not optimize customer satisfaction (especially in a monopoly position). Bottom line. That's all that matters. That's no way of running crucial infrastructure that people depend on.

>"brought up in an Austrian household"
why do people lie like this on the internet

>>49821552
Yes Keynesianism has been deboonked as has Austrian theory, both are retarded 20th century ideologies that don't fit with 21st century data analysis.

The kind of leftists who unironically treat Keynesianism as valid also think Marx was a real economist who made some great points that the capitalists haven't been able to refute.

The modern world system appreciates the fact that economies are mostly just numbers on a computer screen, instead of the Keynesian strategy of higher taxes during economic growth to pay for higher spending to boost the economy from a recession, just have higher debt spending to boost the economy in recessions and then have even more higher debt spending during economic growth to make the economy grow more, then print even more debt to increase spending further during the next recession to boost the economy, then increase more when the economy grows to keep it going up...

>>49821552
Just look at Japan's lost 3 decades. Keynesian economics are more dangerous than nuclear weapons.

>>49824074
It is no lie. My dad was a hardcore von Mises fan and used the word Keynesian as an insult towards politicians, usually acompanied by other insults.

>>49824034
>Not optimize the service, not optimize reliability, not optimize customer satisfaction
And government does this?

>>49822192
>Contrary to libertarians' opinion, roads are useful. Keynesian economics essentially boils down to coordinating investment toward things that grow in value, like planting seeds to grow trees.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HOLY FUCK

>>49822192
>you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers
Somebody hasn't looked at the infrastructure bill that was passed last fall
It's filled with pointless "studies" like how to get gender parity in truck driving

>>49822968
>monetarism is consistently wrong.
Open your eyes Holy shit
You're the same retards that said inflation was transitory.

>>49821552
It's incredible keynesians still exist.
Austrian economist has proven itself to be correct time and time again.
We were right about malinvestment, we were right about inflation.

The only reason keynesianism still exists is because the government wants more power.

Keynesian economics doesn't even make sense mathematically.
https://tugwit.blogspot.com/

>>49822192
>>49824313
Just because I know you wont believe me
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684
click the pdf and scroll down to:
SEC. 23007. PROMOTING WOMEN IN THE TRUCKING WORKFORCE.

There's loads of bullshit like this that we are paying trillions for.

>>49824179
Austrian economics describes the current world perfectly you fucking idiot.

>>49822192
>To accept the premise, you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers, when in reality the idea is to stimulate growth by investing into things that have tangible values (like construction, supporting small businesses, etc).
Should we tell him, guys?

>>49824034
>Actual free-market utilities have never worked out.
You're either lying or completely ignorant.
Open a history book.
https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

>>49824485
>Should we tell him, guys?
I think he might be a lost cause.
People like him believe inflation started with putin

>>49824433
it describes absolutely fucking nothing because every country in the world has a government that taxes people and all but north korea and cuba have a central bank

>>49823246
How do you not know of the broken window fallacy after hundreds of fucking years?

>>49824713
>it describes absolutely fucking nothing because every country in the world has a government that taxes people
So what? Austrian economics accounts for this.
Many chapters in Man, Economy and State were written on this.

>and all but north korea and cuba have a central bank
SO?
What is your point?

>dude Austrian economics only decsribes perfect free markets lmao
no it doesn't holy shit

>>49823286
Possibly the world's greatest and most dangerous retard

>>49824773
Why?
The places that tried his policies ended up being massive successes.
Just look at burma before and after socialism lol
https://www.tiktok.com/@praxben/video/7109077399718858026?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

>>49821552
That picture sums up pretty well why GDP is a shit metric for economic growth.
What's better? Easy. Energy consumption growth. More energy consumption = growing nation. It's the most baseline stat you can use. We even named an entire era of our history the "industrial revolution" which should illustrate why energy consumption is the best metric.

>>49821552
>12 yo me
>I don't get why economic issues exist, why don't governments do this?
>1 year later I found out about Keynes

That's how I know it is absolutely flaw. If a 12 yo toddler can come up with that theory, how is it even right?

Japan has been running Keynes since 1990. The developed world has been running Keynes since 2008. The result is obvious for everyone to see: GDP growth is low and going lower.

>>49824917

There are many great things in science that are very intuitive. Anyone could have come up with Dijkstra's Algorithm. The reason it's a big deal is because of the theoretical work that went into showing that the algorithm is the best.

>>49823150
The United States didn’t. Although we did devolve into what we are today due to filthy boot licking statists like you.

>>49821552
Leftists love retarded faggots and pedophiles. Krugman and Keynes are held up because they lend credibility to the retarded faggotry that leftists push as policy.

Despite Keynes being considered to be some economics titan and one of the most important and valid economic theory, his retarded beliefs have caused financial ruin and instability the world over. More government spending has failed to solve the problems it causes by incentivizing wasteful use of tax payer money.

>>49825234
lets not forget that keynes himself was an actual pedophile that went to third world countries to have his way with boys

>>49821857
>20%
Why do anti PM shills feel the need to exaggerate their claims past the point of credibility?
I don't even have a large gold position but the number of retards and/or shills saying stuff like YOU PAY 20% PREMIUM AND THEN CAN'T EVEN GET SPOT WHEN YOU SELL seems like a buy indicator.

>>49825452
lets not forget
>The theory of aggregate production, which is the point of the following book, nevertheless can be much easier adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state than the theory of production and distribution of a given production put forth under conditions of free competition and a large degree of laissez-faire. This is one of the reasons that justifies the fact that I call my theory a general theory.

>>49824335
>Open your eyes Holy shit
All I see is chicken littles who don't understand why states fail (also called zerohedgers). Failure is inevitable on a long enough timeline, monetarists however are always wrong about the causes. "line went up at the end" is not an explanation when you can't explain why line had been going up (or in this case half a fucking century).

Monetarists are consistently wrong about why, eventually they are right about what but only in a broken clock sense.

>>49824957
The world has been on Keynes since fiat was invented.

Central banks just increased the amount of discipline required to do it right. Then the end of Bretton Woods increased the discipline required yet again.

>>49825859
>All I see is chicken littles who don't understand why states fail (also called zerohedgers).
Listen son, they've been correct about everything.
You people said there was no inflation, then you said it was transitory LOL.
>when you can't explain why line had been going up (or in this case half a fucking century).
Austrians are the ones who constantly explain why line went up, yet you people completely ignore this.

>>49826202
>Listen son, they've been correct about everything.

they've been forecasting hyperinflation nonstop since 2008. we still don't have hyperinflation, we have regular 1970s-level inflation.

>>49826401
>they've been forecasting hyperinflation
no they haven't lmao
I swear, libertarian/austrians get strawmanned more than any political ideology

> we have regular 1970s-level inflation.
The same inflation keynesians said wouldn't happen back then AND now.

Why isn't keynesianism and any derivative schools of economics thrown into the dustbin of history?

>>49826202
>Listen son, they've been correct about everything.
Zerohedge ever right about anything ... heh.

>>49826401
Gas prices are expected to go up by another 50% in the next couple of months. Shit is hitting the fan.

>>49826438
>The same inflation keynesians said wouldn't happen back then AND now.

Lawrence Summers said it would happen.

>>49826446
Look at the inflation rate lol

>>49826477
Previously he said the 2008 financial crisis wouldn't happen.
Also Summers is breaking from the keynesian/pk orthodoxy

>>49826771
>Look at the inflation rate lol
When is Japan hyperinflating again Zerohedgy? Two more weeks since the site was created.

>>49826936
>When is Japan hyperinflating again Zerohedgy?
Nobody claimed hyperinflation you lying sack of shit.
Japan did inflate, the people there lost out of the benefit of price decreases. Their whole society would have been a lot more wealthier if there was no money printing.

Bros I'm so fucking sick of libertarians associating quintessentially monetarist policies with Keynesianism. I don't even like Keynes. It just hurts my brain because it's so clearly wrong.

Milton Friedman was a Jew. He literally invented quantitative easing and told Nixon to give up on Bretton Woods. You would think he would be a prime target to attack. Why don't they ever mention him?

>>49827126
>Milton Friedman was a Jew. He literally invented quantitative easing and told Nixon to give up on Bretton Woods. You would think he would be a prime target to attack. Why don't they ever mention him?
Libertarian here. We didn't mention him. Some leftoid did.
Libertarians hate Friedman, he supported the fed. Actual Libertarians support austrian economics and want to abolish central banking.

>>49827041
>Nobody claimed hyperinflation you lying sack of shit.
https://www.zerohedge.com/article/dylan-grice-what-weimar-republic-popular-delusions-can-teach-us-about-japans-upcoming-hyperi

Zerohedge is the eternal two more weeks website as far as Japan is concerned. Why you lying to yourself?

>>49827302
Fine. A small group of vaguely libertarian people predicted this. This doesn't change the fact that the majority of austrians, ie. actual austrians from the mises institute etc did not

>>49827201
>Libertarians hate Friedman
I don't know his history with the Fed. I know he was against full-reserve banking for reasons I can't imagine. Other than that his lectures are great.

>>49827608
>Other than that his lectures are great.
Some of his takes are great but many are trash.
Especially on the great depression and central banking.
Rothbard > Friedman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Great_Depression

>>49825523
>the truth is a buy indicator

>>49822192
>It really is a stupid comic. To accept the premise, you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers, when in reality the idea is to stimulate growth by investing into things that have tangible values (like construction, supporting small businesses, etc).
Nice fallacy you got there,
Any more broken windows to repair ?

>>49824274
>And government does this?
If your private water company has a monopoly and fucks you over you can move. If your communal water supplier has a monopoly and fucks you over you can vote for a different mayor. So yes, government (in as much as it is comprised of elected officials) has an incentive to ensure base-level satisfaction, so the people in charge can keep their cushy offices.

>>49824485
>https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly
>utilities are not a natural monopoly
>excessive duplication can be solved by pricing it harshly until an artificial monopoly emerges
>???
>profit?
Come on, that must be a joke. In a sensible interpretation of that article this is exactly what we have today. 1 set of utilities (power lines, telephone lines, gas mains, fibre optics, rail lines) under public control that can be utilized by private companties for a fee. This is exactly how liberalized energy and telecommunication markets work. The *service* is subject to competition, the *infrastructure* cannot realistically be. "Dude, just put a price on it and let the free market do the rest" is not a solution to the problem of excessive duplication. If you make it expensive, you get no takers. If you make it cheap, you end up with several sewer systems running in parallel under your city. I fully agree that some of the "natural" monopolies are everything but that, but they're still sensible. If you don't want duplicates you can't let for-profit companies handle maintenance themselves.
And conveniently the part about telephone monopolies (the one closest to more recent examples of natural tendencies towards monopolies in stuff like social media) does not address interoperability. In a *true* free market we'd have balkanized telephone grids that can't talk to each other as opposed to today where the monopoly carrier is neutral and every telco can run their service across it.

>>49828012
The standard-gauge railway emerged organically without public intervention only a few decades after the invention of steam locomotives. The early history of railways is a good example of private infrastructure being successful in ways that are hard to imagine now. Maybe you know more about the topic than me I'm open to getting BTFO'd.

>>49828012
>In a sensible interpretation of that article this is exactly what we have today
Nope.
There were countless private utilities back then competing with each other. How does that resemble today?

>excessive duplication.
It's absolutely a myth and you didn't read the article whatsoever. It is debunked.

> In a *true* free market we'd have balkanized telephone grids that can't talk to each other
Why wouldn't they? It benefits them financially to share.

>>49828711
>Why wouldn't they? It benefits them financially to share.
Nigga, even when they have to fucking share phone manufacturers are making sure the person talking to you is aware you're not using the same brand of fruitphone.

>>49828787
lol why do debit and credit card companies use the same standards? why do many companies use the ISO system? why do ISPs connect you to the same internet?
you're so silly

>>49821716
>Modern economic theory is based on Keynes
correct
>Keynes isn't deboonked
incorrect
>there's as many Keynesians as there are Austrians and Chicago school adherents
wrong, there are orders of magnitude more Keynesians
>98% of economists are adhere to modern economic theory
correct
>It's common knowledge and consensus that intervention is required to manage the economy and virtually all central banks follow modern economic theory
correct
all great examples of how what's "common knowledge" can be, and often is, the diametric opposite of the actual truth

>>49824409

imagine being this retarded. is American public education seriously this bad? is this bait? I can't even tell anymore

>>49829117
>imagine being this retarded
So basically you're telling me you're incapable of understanding basic mathematical concept and can not refute the image or website.
Embarrassing.
Kill yourself immediately.

>>49829469

do me a favor and get some non-linear rope and kys. that's the closest you'll ever get to understanding the non-linear math that goes into these economic models.

>>49829521
>do me a favor and get some non-linear rope and kys
You're absolutely seething over the fact you're wrong on this lmao
Go ahead keynesian babby, refute it
https://tugwit.blogspot.com/

You literally can't.

>non-linear math
kek if you can't even get basic math or even basic logic right, what makes you think you'll be able to understand complex math?

>>49829117
also
>is American public education seriously this bad?
kek
I thought you loved government control?
What's the problem?

>>49821552
>Being brought up in an Austrian household
Who talks like this?

>>49829742
>Who talks like this?
A troll.

>>49821857
The point of the comic is the ridiculous emphasis on GDP not the monetary supply being fiat or gold.

>>49824368
Terrible layout

>>49829575
pls take your meds anon. this has some serious schizo vibes

>>49830142
okay layoutlet

>>49830251
retard

What kind of brain damage do you need to even remotely think of Austrian economics as valid? What kind of severe neurological issue do you need to develop to think that the actual reality of any situation and your gut feeling and wishful thinking are equally valid?

>>49827678
you know you can easily buy gold for 1% over spot?

>>49831021
Where?

>>49825215
The United States was absolutely far worse during its only “libertarian” phase, the Articles of Confederation era. The US was never libertarian after the Constitution was ratified.

>>49821552

Digging holes and filling them up has never been a sound economic model

>>49831571
>The US was never libertarian after the Constitution was ratified
What makes you say that? To be fair, my definition of libertarian is essentially minarchism. The fact that we actually had 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 10th amendment rights ~100 years ago absolutely made the United States better than it is today, in my opinion.

>>49824034
that's true because there's no competition or reason to innovate. if that's the case then yes government should control the enterprise.

>>49823246
Retards like this accepting obvious fallacy as valid economics are the reason there will be a worldwide hyperinflation and a second dark ages.

Is Japan Keynesian?

>>49830988
>What kind of brain damage do you need to even remotely think of Austrian economics as valid?
lmfao
you have zero argument and nothing but seething

>>49832781
Yes, their central bank just a couple months ago announced they will be buying an unlimited amount of bonds from their government. Remember that massive Japanese yen crash not long ago?

>>49824196
Yea but 80s japan was peak kino. All that cultural iconography was only possible due to the money printing

>>49832781
Extremely

>>49828303
Just let me hop in my locomotive.. oh wait
Maybe cars should be banned and everyone must take public transport

>>49832781

Yeah and Japan is also extremely prosperous and stable.

>>49825215
USA was the warlord country that made it, helps when all your enemies are shitskins

>>49832821
at least I have real world facts

>>49829575
Austrian economic theory is correct, but none of that math is required to understand it. It is all just pure deduction from what we can see happen. In fact, Keynesian policies are partly successful because they oversimplify everything to a few formulas that do not really explain anything, but retarded politicians can be swayed with them easily.

>>49833521
you dont
you have bad theory

>>49833635
It's popular mainly because it legitimizes corruption and mismanagement of politicians. You are debtmaxing to make your rule look good while fucking over your successors? All fine and dandy. Running money printer at full output because managing proper budget is beyond you? That's what you were supposed to do all along! You intervene in the market all the time because it allows you to steal more money from the country? Good job!

>>49822192
>To accept the premise, you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers, when in reality the idea is to stimulate growth by investing into things that have tangible values (like construction, supporting small businesses, etc).
Dude do you pay any attention at all?

>>49833845
Don't forget patronage. Those public employees and their children will owe you till they die.

>>49833845
Yes that is correct. Just like the ring in LOTR, no one can turn away from the get out of jail card- inflation.

>>49821552
>economy has consistently grown every decade since Keynes became popular
>"has Keynes been debunked yet?"

>>49822192
Every cent that goes to niggers goes to waste

>>49829094
>>Keynes isn't deboonked
>incorrect
keynes was a smart economist who realized that the power of the state allows it to mitigate economic downturns by acting oppositely to individuals and businesses: spending lavishly during hard times, and cutting expenditures in good times
it was his followers who went off the deep end

>>49821742
>Leftist
>Keynes
Keynes was a capitalist, you retard.

>>49822029
because their ideology is ugly

>>49835012
Some have already pointed out ITT that Kenyes kick in during the 2008 crisis, which we still haven't abandoned. I'd say the results have been atrocious.

>>49822192
>To accept the premise, you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers, when in reality the idea is to stimulate growth by investing into things that have tangible values
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8b3963VRW4

>>49835187
We didn't spend much on that recession. That's why it took so long to recover. The government was focused on QE which is a meme that doesn't even work (see: Japan). But a few years before 2008 there was the early 2000's. If running balanced budgets is good for the economy, why did we have a recessions in the early 2000's?

>>49822029
>on /biz/
>literally the crypto board
>not a libertarian
I genuinely cannot comprehend how someone can be this retarded. Enjoy paying 40 percent of your crypto gains to the state so they can pay Laqueesha's welfare you boot licking scum.

>they think lolbertarians are stoopid
>they avoid paying crypto taxes because fuck the IRS
Knew that this place is full of retards and this confirms it

>>49835264
>public spending went from 33.88 (2000) to 42.46 (2010)

>>49823171
wow, thank you for posting this
actually good linked information for once

>>49824368
>Austrian economist has proven itself to be correct time and time again.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>49835891
cope over reality lmao

>>49821998
MMT is an objective descriptor of how the government that issues its own sovereign currency can buy stuff without handing over physical bonds. It says, if the assets and liabilities are equal, then its ok, which is true. The only real problem with MMT is peoples' trust in the asset but we invent 100 other problems around it
If anyone on this board, or anyone following the media-driven austrian economics craze, actually read keynes' "general theory", they would have an aneurism for fear of understanding it

>>49831021
from a crackhead who stole it in a burglary?

>>49822387
But only governments would have incentives to do it beyond on your own land.

>>49827662
>Especially on the great depression
Wasn't his argument that the Federal reserve could have increased money supply to Independent Bank branches thereby avoiding Bank runs? I think that's pretty reasonable.

>>49828711
>>excessive duplication.
>It's absolutely a myth and you didn't read the article whatsoever. It is debunked.
Maybe I just don't understand the article. Let's make a real example. We live in Smalltown where the water grid is privatized. My current water supplier does not conduct maintenance well, we have frequent breaks and outtages. I want to switch. So a competitor lays some new pipes and connects me up. What prevents 12 different water grids from existing at the same time? The article says
>[T]he problem of excessive duplication of distribution systems is attributable to the failure of communities to set a proper price on the use of these scarce resources. The right to use publicly owned thoroughfares is the right to use a scarce resource. The absence of a price for the use of these resources, a price high enough to reflect the opportunity costs of such alternative uses as the servicing of uninterrupted traffic and unmarred views, will lead to their overutilization. The setting of an appropriate fee for the use of these resources would reduce the degree of duplication to optimal levels.
Tell me how this would work. Make a concrete example how a price prevents 12 grids from emerging but still allows healthy competition, forcing my supplier to conduct proper maintenance.

>> In a *true* free market we'd have balkanized telephone grids that can't talk to each other
>Why wouldn't they? It benefits them financially to share.
Yes, yes. I can just export my Facebook data and move to a competitor while still messaging my friends on Facebook from my new platform. Interoperability is just *that* beneficial to Facebook.
And Apple totally doesn't fight tooth and nails to keep its appstore a walled garden with massive bullshit fees. Isn't it great how apps are interoperable because making tools available to users easily and cheaply is just that beneficial to Apple?
And right, it totally didn't need EU regulation to cut down on absurdly high roaming fees.

>>49821552
>Being brought up in an Austrian household I always thought "Keynesian" was an insult that more or less meant "retard".
but did they come with an argument or were they just typical autistic screeching austrians?

>>49821552
The Austrian school of economics is completely retarded and will collapse any nation which embraces it. Capital will get hyper concentrated leading to a few market players essentially controlling the entire supply chain for the entire nation, and since each actor wants to maximize their own profit, they will implement things like "just in time" supply which will make everything unbelievably fragile and liable to implode with the slightest turbulence. Also, just look at what companies are like now in the USA. They would rather focus on stock buy backs and manipulating the company's valuation to maximize shareholder returns rather than actually focusing on creating a product or service people want that will be profitable. In other words, absolute free markets end up serving the handful of people who end up owning all the capital and everyone else is shit out of luck.

>>49838049
>The Austrian school of economics is completely retarded and will collapse any nation which embraces it.
then why was every nation that embraced it extremely successful?
>Capital will get hyper concentrated leading to a few market players essentially controlling the entire supply chain for the entire nation
kek
it's incredible how much austrians have refuted the theory of monopoly

>>49838049
Tell me about all those countries destroyed by Austrian economics. Right now my country (using Keynesian economics) is experiencing PKB decrease, double digit inflation and crazy debt increase. I can only imagine how bad countries with Austrian economics look like.

>>49838251
You can't "refute" the theory of monopolies. Certain things are natural monopolies, such as roads, because they take up physical space to a degree that you can't have competing options. Beyond that, we have manifest examples from Standard Oil to Microsoft to Amazon where large companies wielded their market dominance to purposefully destroy competition. It's very simple, if you have competition, this forces you to lower your prices to try and undercut the other guy while maintaining a profit margin. However, if you have the ability to eliminate your competition, suddenly you can simply charge the maximum customers will pay and you don't need to worry about being undercut. Therefore, even if you think it requires government force to form a monopoly, in an anarchistic situation, large companies would simply erect pseudo governments to help support their own monopolies since the incentive to hold a monopoly is so great.

>>49838317
That's all because of Putin's price hike. Just kidding, I figured that would make you fume for a split second. The real reason is because the Austrian types have such an influence on keeping taxes low that the tax income does not meet the spending which results in debt which results in inflation.

>>49838411
>The real reason is because the Austrian types have such an influence on keeping taxes low that the tax income does not meet the spending which results in debt which results in inflation.
Anon, Austrian types in my country can't even reliably join the parliament. 98% of parliament members are Keynesians and it was that way for decades.

>>49824196
the rest of the world is going to be taking notes from Japan and liking it

>>49821857
Guess someone missed the entire point of the comic. No surprise given you're an anti-gold shill who also thinks gold premiums are higher than 1-3%.

>>49821552
>Being brought up in an Austrian household

Your parents were autists.

>>49821552
>Has Keynesianism been debunked beyond reasonable doubt?

Look around you. Stealth MMT (Keynesian) has been put into practice post-Covid. How do you think it worked out?

>>49835094
Nowadays, "leftist" just means "Democrat voter" in the U.S..

Keynesianism is a lot more complex than people give it credit for. Most of its modern unpopularity comes from policymakers thinking that you can spend your way out of any type of recession when the theory is pretty clear that it only works on the demand side and makes things worse if the economy is faltering from the supply side. It's one of many examples of intellectuals being too smart and nuanced compared to the subsequent policymakers who tried to implement their ideas.

>>49823246
Creating a boom and bust cycle does not equate to stimulating the economy. You have to see beyond a 5 to 10 years range.

>>49824433
See annon, 98% of the world are taking dicks up their ass, so you should too. That's how your argument sounds like

>>49840396
There two types of policies:
Policies that work
Policies that aren't idiot-proof

>>49822192
>To accept the premise, you need to presume that actual fiscal policy is geared toward dumping money into pointless programs such as hole diggers and hole fillers
And I do. Billions of dollars disappear into dead-end "green energy" projects that never go anywhere. Billions more flow into education to pay an ever-growing army of administrators to do a thousand paper-pushing things *other* than educate anyone. Trillions disappear into wars with dubious purpose, unclear goals, and disastrous results. There are ditches being dug and filled in all around you, all around the world. Just look.

>>49824433
Austrian school is unironically for virgins, incels and school shooters.

>>49840901
Nothing is ever going to be idiot-proof in a field like macroeconomics, it's just too complex. Keynesian principles have worked in the past when implemented properly, which separates it from actual pie in the sky theories like communism which nobody has ever scaled into a workable system. The other aspects causing failures in policy are things like political/social systems that elevate mediocre people into important positions, or bureaucracies being inherently rigid and prone to repeating the same actions that worked before instead of adapting to changing circumstances, which aren't inherent to any specific type of policy/ideology.

>>49838251
>>49838317
>then why was every nation that embraced it extremely successful?
>The british long depression of 1873-1896
>American banking crisis of the 1880's
Read a fucking history book and you will realize how shitty the austrian school is. Laissez Faire economics fucked up the lives of ordinary people and it still does where it exists

>>49835084
economic downturns didnt used to be cyclical every 5-10 years. They used to happen based on real catastrophes. Now we get guaranteed booms and busts because of funny money, and saving is basically impossible

>>49821552
What kind of family talks about economics to the point where you associate Keynesian with an insult? Are your parents economics professors, and even then they’d be keynesians most likely

Op is a faggot

>>49821998
What is your specific objection to MMT

>>49823246
>he’s so poor that he can’t afford new plates without working OT

>>49841995
Its proponents appear to be locked in an endless cycle of saying "X will not happen", then saying "Okay X happened, but Y will definitely not happen" and so-on out into infinity. Its detractors say "See? I told you X would happen, and Y is next" at every step of the way, but they're never saying anything the government wants to hear so they're ignored.

Frankly, one struggles to even come up with a good reason why an earnest learner with limited time should even bother reading MMT very much at all. It's like diving deep into esoteric old texts about the Four Humors, or reading a stack of books about the theoretical physics of the Ether. Isn't it enough to simply observe that this School is consistently and publicly wrong all the time? If their theories were worthwhile, wouldn't they have predictive power?

>>49842219
Any specific examples of things happening they said wouldn’t?
>second paragraph
So you don’t even know what you’re talking about or

>>49842530
Every time an economic downturn happens, it's preceded by a public discourse wherein the MMT-dominated public-policy mainstream says it's not going to happen because they're in charge and know what they're doing. Then it happens anyway, exactly like their critics said it would.

I have an econ degree. I've studied plenty. Which is why I know enough to know that the most important part of Economics is checking your work against reality, instead of staying silo'd off in academic dreamland where anything and everything can be justified if you're good enough at writing about it. MMT fails the test, *consistently*. It needs to just be discarded already.

>>49821552
>leftist publications quote Keynes and Krugman as legitimate intelectual authorities
Imagine being this clueless.

>>49821998
Central banking is the opposite of MMT, smoothbrain.

>>49821552
Modern economocs:
>more money means more people buy shit which means an upturn
>keep inflation going so people dont become unemployed
>but in the long term only capital accumulation leads to real growth so dont over do it
Thats it
>