/biz/ - Business & Finance

Bitcoine price and futures?

What the fuck is this future shits, I'm confused

Someone explain it to me

bets on future bitcoin price which will crash the price.

>>4844590
hey but how will it crash the price if the futures aqre cash-settled? they are not actually buying and selling btc, why wouldnt the btc market simply ignore ((((them)))
t.brainlet ....yes i am, please take 2 min of your time to explain it to me..... thank you anon

>>4844551
Good day boomers, i'm Robert and i will take your cash and put it into bitcoin.
I will trade it with other respectable men and make your investment gain 50% over a year.
Meanwhile on exchange:
Mark this is Robert, do you want to buy my bitcoin for 14000?
Robert, I will gladly buy your bitcoin for 15000 and will you buy my for 16000?
Sure Mark, once we make a deal for 17000 it will rise even more.
Robert, hear me out, we already made enough money, will you buy my bitcoin for 5k?
Sure Mark, lets ride our lambos into the sunset.
Great deal Robert, what the heck is bitcoin anyway?
Fuck if i know, Mark.
Meanwhile in MSM:
BITCOIN CRASHED TO 4k BUT AT LEAST THIS HONORABLE TRADERS SAVED YOU 1k, PRAISE THEM

>>4844551
Are you one of the people who expects btc to continue to go up?

>>4844551
One of the biggest options and futures exchange CME is about to release futures trading on bitcoin,
This will mean that big fucking money on wall st will come in to the bitcoin market.

>>4844720
to fuck it up....

>>4844720
Funny thing is walllstreet thinks this is stocks. They're in for a huge loss

>>4844059

Holy fuck. ((They)) are going to crash it so fucking hard it's not going to be funny. Take your gains and get out before the 10th. People are going to lose their shirts.

Inb4 "muh bitcoin doesn't behave like that" and "people have been saying that since $2,000"

If you think 100 billion entering the game in 6 days is not institutional money then you deserve what's coming for you.

>>4844746
>Funny thing is walllstreet thinks this is stocks. They're in for a huge loss

So basically the ride is over?

>>4844833
its only the beggining

>>4844059
shhh, its ok, just send it all here
3JRodB3yH5eE7MYVaTrM8NRyjz3XkD6kSP

>>4844742
Honestly who knows we have couple hedge funds who have gone public that theyre going to short sell bitcoin which could cause selling pressure and the price would go down
On the other hand we have JP Morgon and Goldman Sachs who are most certainly going to go Long on btc as there clients have demanded to be able to buy btc which could make the price go up.

>>4844758
Honestly it's easier to keep pushing it up at this point

>>4844909
longs are capped at 17k right now
oy vey i wonder whats going to happen in next 3 days

>>4844746
you know wallstreet trades more than stocks right. bitcoin might be hard to grasp for the average person but it's absolutely nothing compared to the retardedly complex derivative shit they come up with in order to jew the economy

shorting something that is going up up up in such a bullish way is just begging to get rekt.

I'm honestly not sure what to expect. It feels like Wall Street is loading up on BTC so they can sell futures and leverage their position so they lose a million selling actual bitcoin but make 50 million from their futures.

But then they have to find some sucker going long on the other side of the trade, who can turn around and prop up the price of bitcoin doing the same thing. Also, this feels like it could blow up in people's faces since the exchange rules freeze trading on contracts that jump too low/high in a short period.

>>4845022
who do you think pumps it right now? normies? lmao

>>4845022
>shorting something that is going up up up in such a bullish way is just begging to get rekt.
you idiot, it is going up so that they can get more from shorting it, the higher it climbs before the 10th, the more profitable the shorts will be

The crash after futures release will be the "first sell off" bear trap. But you faggots will sell into it and post pink wojaks anyways.

>>4845095
/biz/ will post pink wojaks no matter what
>c: lambo cocan
wew

>>4845077
The $ amount means nothing when shorting. It's all about the % drop since it can only go to 0. $10k to $5k is the same as $2 to $1.

>>4844833
not for the rest of the shitcoins

>>4844849
of normie acceptance which means it's over

>>4844758
Why would 100 billion enter the market if they expected the price to start crashing in a few days?

>>4844622
>why wouldnt the btc market simply ignore ((((them)))
because the market isnt that smart

>>4845135
yes, but the steeper it grows, the steeper the ride down

>>4844059
Let's say this is a pump from big money who plan to/will short BTC soon, would that mean all other coins get rekt too?

I'd imagine coins that have 0 future ie. half of the tokens around, but what about coins like XMR?

I sort of do hope bitcoin gets raped (as long as my beautiful Monero is fine), would get 99% of the normies out.

>>4845243
this

>>4845265
btc will pull everything with it that has no real use, monero might survive initial crash due to drug trade

>>4844758
you absolutely worthless, piece of shit brainlet. market cap does not equal invested money. how can a mouthbreathing idiot like you even turn on a pc?

>>4845265
Historically if btc crashes everything else crashes twice as hard

>>4844909
and why would an investment fund publicly state what they will do ahead of time, that is, why would they give people an opportunity to play against them? are you really this gullible?

>>4845017
this

bump

>>4845310
>monero might survive initial crash due to drug trade

That's what I'm hoping for, DNMs made Bitcoin, I'm hoping lightning strikes twice with Monero.

The cynical part of my brain saysBTC is taking the market down with it though.

Nothing will change with futures. As easy as that.

>>4845194
It's not actually 100 billion, it's just market cap, which is easy to manipulate if only a small percentage is available for trade. And they're buying in so they can dump the stuff because they can take leveraged positions on the price without the need to actually buy/sell anything to cover.

Bottom line, futures are where people are going to get wrecked, but BTC has to actually be manipulated for that to happen. The question is whether the longs have bigger pockets than the shorts and if anyone will take the other side of these huge bets.

>>4845504
a bit off-topic, but what do you think would happen with bitcoin price if several millionaires/ billionaires actually bought in? not for shorting, but as a hedge against market crashes (ala 2008).

>>4845077
some people... these fucking noobs have NO IDEA about what is coming. Lol I sold everything waiting for the dip of all dips then buy back in quading my stack. They will have to rename this board /wojack/

Can someone explain to me why, if these are cash-settled and don't involve owning real coins, BTC would go down even if they shorted it? Honestly wondering.

>>4845714
tether has no proof of being cash settles yet dollar price directly affects tether
same story

>>4845808

But Tether is literally being used on exchanges to purchase real BTC, whereas this is more "on the sidelines"

>>4845852
> used on exchanges to purchase real BTC
its not real until its on your wallet

>>4845571
Price shoots up. End game for BTC is that it's a decentralized reserve currency for the world which is used in international trade and as a hedge against inflation, which puts it at about that 1 million/bitcoin number people keep touting.

but big money buying in also has the bonus of legitimizing the stuff, so the government will be less likely to outlaw it and piss off their big dollar donors.

>>4844059
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/bitcoin-futures-push-back-by-wall-street-banks.html

Major banks want to halt bitcoin futures trading and Korea banned it already. Market is too volatile right now.

>>4845986
Not any relevant info in this article.

>>4845986
Holy shit this is going to be a fucking war.

>>4846081
>relevant info
>establishment media propaganda rag
look, just believe what you're told ok. only a conspiracy theorist would question or doubt the news

>>4845982
why are you so certain that the current price increase is due to wall st getting ready to ram their thick cock up btcs ass and not due to rich fags getting over themselves and starting to invest?

Honestly how fucking stupid to allow this

>>4845714
see gold futures.

>>4845982
>that it's a decentralized reserve currency for the world
Yeah I'm sure that the currency Jews who have manipulated world finance for hundreds of years would just let this happen without starting world war 3 somehow.

>>4845986
too little too late, this train is on a crash course...

it will maybe crypto more stable, leading to wider adoption, leading to 1 million per coin.
i can't be wrong

>>4846178
war against whom, goy? you should figure out what the word "decentralized" means before posting anything further

150k unconfirmed txs and increasing on 95% hashrate... the crash will be epic...

>>4846122
I'm not. I'm going over potential scenarios so I can have a plan of action ahead of time instead of reacting in the moment. It could be the dollar flippening. It could be Wall Street stocking up for manipulation. It could be just we are getting more and more holders which causes the same amount of money to chase fewer and fewer coins as we all become paper millionaires who can't cash out faster than money poors in without stopping the music and wrecking everyone involved.

>>4844059
>future bitcoin
Still 3 days to accumulate

>>4844059
So if I wanna invest 1k is it a good idea or bad idea?

>>4846178
of course they'd let it happen, they probably came up with the idea just for an excuse to start ww3, crash everything, and then buy back billions of starving lives and wrecked businesses for pennies on the dollar. who knows. i would not put any level of evil or manipulation past them. the whole purpose of bitcoin isn't to start a war though, i don't think, or even to crash the economy, bitcoin itself might be harmless.

but getting people used to accepting the idea of a cashless currency. that's priceless.

and then when bitcoin causes some real world financial trouble they'll say "oh no we need to regulate, oh here's this new government backed crypto here you go" and then as people slide into that... "cash leads to crime so we're banning that too, you can only use goevrnment crypto now"... and then they have our balls in the vice, the ability to turn on and off whether a person can buy or sell anything will be in the governments power.

blockchain will control and monitor and report and microcharge every aspect of your life. nothing you buy or sell isn't a matter of public record. and your blockchain reputation score determines how much you pay in life. better be a good boy and not question the government or your reputation score will go down and things will cost you more as punishment. everyone stay in line now and be good or starve

so yeah, they would just allow it to happen. with or wothout a war. cashless currency is the ultimate form of control.

>>4846341
wait. just wait. see what happens then make a move. Stupid money enters now, smart money sits and watches the show, then picks up the pieces

>>4846351
theres several problems with you little shizo rant.
1) war on cash was declared before ccs came to existance;
2) theres no way for governments to ban ccs

>>4844679

my sides have left the galaxy

>>4846351
>so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Whether you believe in the supernatural Bible stuff or not, everyone knows controlling the ability to trade is indeed the ultimate form of power, ever since the ancient times. This anon is right. When the next crisis comes, get ready, shit will get real pretty fast.

>>4846351
>blockchain will control and monitor and report and microcharge every aspect of your life.
what stops me from making another crypto wallet with a fresh record?

>cash leads to crime so we're banning that too, you can only use goevrnment crypto now
youre literally talking about banning what is essentially bartering. You do realise thats completely impossible right? moreover, goverment crypto = fiat monies.

Theyre going to try and corner the market just like they always have with everything. Bitcoin is ostensibly like gold at this point - in reality its basically worthless but people trade in it because its limited and they assign value to it. The only difference is kikes found a way to make gold out of thin air and paper as well as managing to hoard 90% of the world's gold. As long as bitcoin futures dont take off too much crypto is fine. I suppose the advantage bitcoin has is that there is a known hard limit on how much btc can ever exist but i doubt thatll stop them making 3 bitcoin futures for every bitcoin that exists.

>>4846444
Trips of truth then. If what everyone here says is true, the is an inevitable Christmas dip each year. While I might kick myself later on for not getting in earlier, I'll probs invest then. Though call it Meme Magic, from Trump winning to the Patriots winning the Super Bowl to a glitch, unfinished mess like PUBG being the most played game on Steam, I get a feeling things are gonna work out for BTC. Too many I stances of where something that should've failed but didn't

>>4846512
theres nothing stopping them from making 3 bItCoInS for every bitcoin, but theres also nothing stopping me from refusing to accept their shitcoin.

>>4844758
>100 billion entering the game in 6 days

wait....you actually think that $100 billion entered the crypto market? lmao...this type of retardation is why the crash will be so fun to watch.

>>4844746
I just come to /biz/ for comedic value right now

>>4846549
Agreed, but the short term risk is too high. Stay frosty and when the time is right you will know :)

I dumped my last 700 bucks into btc last month on the advice of /biz/ and now I have 1400 bucks. I really wanna see that number get to the point that I can buy a car, maybe a used dodge neon or something. Hope!

>>4846570
>nothing stopping me from refusing to accept their shitcoin.
The question is will the normies accept it? Plenty of tea party types dennounce paper gold and fiat currency but it doesnt mean dick when barry boomer buys into them. Hopefully, btc is esoteric enough that only people in the know stay in it and avoid futures but that wont stop them propping up their own market to artificially deflate btc.If wall street buy enough btc and trade futures with thrmself then they can artificially deflate the price. I guess it depends how much alex jones you watch but id bet my btc that theyd be willing to do this at a loss if it meant they could prevent btc from doing what it threatens to do.

Ultimately though, youll still be able to make bank on this is you play it right but id love to see wall street shit itself with futures.

>>4846512
>youre literally talking about banning what is essentially bartering. You do realise thats completely impossible right?
in some states in the us it is already illegal to buy or sell used items for cash, not even just for business either, for individuals. i'm sure it gets done anyways, all the time. but thats the law, it's illegal. and this law sets a precedent.

they can and will ban or do whatever they want. who is going to stop them? the normies that go along with everything? you?

they'll have some plot to tie your name and identity into the blockchain currency they'll have us use. it'll be a feature at first, people will want to do it, then it will become a requirement for some things, then most things, then it will be illegal not to have your blockchain currency linked directly to your government id.

i mean come on, if i can come up with this plan. you think they havent? who is going to stop them?

>>4846579
please explain. If 100 billion didn't enter the market, what happened? Not being sarcastic, just genuinely want to know.

>>4846735
Go to work faggot

>>4846775
oh, also ai and surveillance
cameras everywhere
good luck trading seashells or pokemon cards when cash is banned. you'll get caught

>>4846351
THIS

>>4846795
I just got off of work, Im sick of being a fucking night janitor, trying to make some fucking changes in my life

>>4846467

They can definitely ban crypto currencies. If they don't ban it they'll make it so unappealing/frightening to the avg normie that it'll never have public backing.

>>4846775
>>4846351
>>4846796
FURTHERMORE once crypto becomes the only currency and it's all cashless and linked to your government id to control your ability to buy and sell... you'll need some way to confirm identity.

hardware wallets with fingerprint id, maybe just use your new iphone that scans your face with ir lasers (thats what the latest iphone does by the way im not making that up). and at first that will be good enough.

but in the end, the best security is a chip. and the best security will become mandatory. a chip, in your head or in your hand, that controls whether you can buy or sell.

>>4846789
volume for 3 days is 6 billions
its just getting pumped by 0.01 trades on exchanges, this is how tether pump works my friend

>>4846775
CAPTAIN ANARCHY AND HIS BITCOINS WILL SAVE US ALL!

>>4846775
>>4846796
>the government has either the competency or the manpower to enforce this.
You can ban bartering but you cant stop it. Just look at canabis; canabis is illegal but its so common you can go to any major city (the places with the most surveillance) and you almost certainly will smell it at some point.

What is law and what is reality are 2 different things. You ask if they came up with it and i agree that its certain that they have but the government, as inept and delusional as it is, is still pragmatic enough to realise that its completely unenforcable and would be about as popular as a 75% vat.

Besides, like i said, they dont need shitcoin. The us dollar may as well be a crypto currency and as we move more and more towards a cashless society thanks to debitcards and contactless payment (or even that wierd phone payment thing) we move towards what you describe. Crypto is almost a satire of it.

>"it's over bill, we sold your BTC and now crashing it."

>>4847022
exactly. where the fuck did all these delusional shizos crept up from?

>>4846549
What is a Christmas dip? I bought into btc and eth yesterday?

>>4844622
They will bet on low and then throw thousand of thousand of coins everythwhere at once for market sell prices basically.
Nothing will be able to scoop it up and they will make insane gains and order will eventually return the financial world, after all the normies have lost their savings

>>4847090
/x/

They do this bullshit in gold and silver because no one knows the actual supply available nor do they want to haul away giant gold/silver bars in a truck. Whereas when (((they))) get called out to deliver all the crypto they've shorted they will have to panic buy the limited supply.

>>4846789
simplest way to look at it:

>BTC is priced at $10000
>a couple of schmucks want to buy 100 BTC
>supply is only 50 at that moment
>they start to outbid each other
>price jumps to $15000
>market cap = circulating supply * coin price
>market cap increases $5000 * 17 million = $80 billion

did 80 billion enter the market in this case? no.

>>4847022
like i said
ai sureillance and cameras everywhere
you can stuff some old cash notes for barter in your pocket if you like, and some will, and enough will get caught and punished that most wont risk it. buying a load of bread with cash will become a criminal act. because they want to control you, and cashless is control.

people already walk around with surveillance devices on in their pockets at all times. the entirety of london and the downtown sections of most major cities in the west, already have cameras, increasingly tied into facial recognition.

you do have a point with the us dollar might as well be crypto though. they just need to ban cash and make it all digital, most of it is already anyways.

>>4847115
try again, i'm from /pol/
and i raise legit concerns about what the people in power could plausibly get away with. i think they can, i think they would like to, and i dont think we or the normies or anyone will notice or care to stop them. it all may happen step by step as i've laid out

>>4847259
Thanks, I get it.
But how can this shit go on for almost 1 month? Who has the resources to pull this off?
Is it:
a) whales
b) thetherpump.exe
c) wall street
d) all of the above

>>4847259
>supply is only 50 at that moment
>17 million

Okay now I'm confused.

>>4847094
According to /biz/ wizards, crypto drops around this time each year for presents and stuff. Don't have sauce and wanna look it up to do some research later on when I get the chance. I'm waiting for this magical dip and to see if Wall Street kills BTC. If things look good I'm dropping 1k into BTC and $800 into XMR

Youre all dumb

>>4847390
>>4845571

>>4847401
circulating supply = every coin that is "free to move around", doesn't mean it's actively traded.

>>4847401
Means that people are willing to sell a total of 50 BTC in total at any price level.
This would drive the price up a lot since even sell orders that are way above the current price will be filled depending on how badly the schmucks want their 100 BTC.
The total amount of BTC in circulation is still 19 million, so that gets multiplied by the increase in price, which drives up the market cap like crazy when in reality only between 50 and 100 times 15k was traded.

>>4844746
> crypto people genuinely believe they will outsmart wallstreet

>>4847734
postal workers in 1980s:
>some geeks genuinely believe they will outsmart government backed postal services
book sellers in late 1990s:
>some geek genuinely believe he will outsmart all us
blockbuster in early 2010s:
>some geeks genuinely believe they will outsmart our monopoly
you now:
>some geeks genuinely believe they will outsmart wallstreet