/biz/ - Business & Finance

>What is the difference
'merica

>those numbers

What the fuck? You have to be wrong. There's no way Europeans are that fucking poor.

Where in the EU are you?
In Austria a starting salary for a STEM master is from 45k (industry) to 60k (consulting). Convert that to american shekels and it's a bit less than a 100k dollar starting.

>>474590
>Living expenses are pretty much the same EU and USA.

This is false. It is much cheaper to live in the us than in the eu. The wealthy eu members at least.

>>474603
>>474608
Not OP, but I'm from EU too (Lithuania to be more exact) and it's even lower than that.
That's one of the reasons why I'll be trying to set up some websites with google adsense, 400$ a month would be the minimum salary.

>>474616

Oh, you're from the broke ass countries. That makes more sense.

>>474603
Yes way.

>>474608
Slovenia. Which is a neighbour of Austria. I know salaries in Austria are a bit higher, yes. But still not close as to what I'm hearing from USA. Prices for pretty much everything in SLO-AUT are the same.

€45k is $58k. Not a bit less than $100k.

>>474618
I'm not OP. But yeah, it sucks living in here. You murricans get technology for so cheap. It sucks being born here. I guess I'll be another lithuanian moving to UK soon.

>>474625

Lolwut. I understand that electronics are cheaper in first world countries than third world countries where luxuries of that nature have higher prices thanks to inelastic demand, but the cost of living there is much lower there than here.

Within America, over in California where it's very high income a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house with virtually no yard is likely to go for a million dollars or so, whereas in Northwest Arkansas the same home with a yard of almost an acre will go for about 100-150k depending on the market, and further South it's even cheaper. I'm guessing that in former communist nations houses are even cheaper than that, which is why everyone is buying up oceanfront property in Bulgaria.

>>474615
Prices for tech gadgets etc. are lower. But what about other expenses? Maybe compare some rents and real estate prices.

Monthly rent for a one-room condo here is from 300€-500€, depends of location, add 200€ of bills to that and you get up to 700€ expenses to live in a one room shithole wwhich is not even yours. Can't pay that without a partner.

>>474635

Looking at the cost of a house near the sea in Bulgaria, it's about 30k Euros, which is about $40k or so depending upon price fluctuations. That's not beachfront property, but it's property near the beach. I'm finding places that are literally beachfront houses for right around $100k there.

In the US people would murder for those prices.

>>474629
Slovenia is considered a first world country. And electronics here are most certanly NOT considered as luxury.

And here are real estate prices in our capital..

http://www.realestate-slovenia.info/nepremicnine.html?d=197&p=1&n=1&r=14&c1=&c2=&cm2=0

>>474635

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=PPPGDP

>>474629
>>474635
We have a law that doesn't allow foreigners to buy our lands (even though we are a part of EU).
Rent is cheaper here, that's true. The build quality from those days is not so good (if we're talking about flats).
One room flat is about 200$ in my city (it's a small city) but in bigger cities it's at least two times higher.
If you're working for a minimum wage you don't have much left if any. Electricity costs a lot more than in the US but at least the internet is cheap and fast.
20% of people are in poverty zone (or however you call it in English).
Also, in some states houses are pretty cheap in murrica from what I've heard.

>>474640

Property isn't valuable just because it's near the beach. You need to consider the location, weather, scenery whatever.

>>474642

>Slovenia
>Former Communist Country
>First world

I don't know about that one. But if those are the highest prices of homes in your capital they compare somewhat to middle end housing in a bigger US city.

>>474590
lol wut? are you by any chance html5 "programmer"?
working as a delivery driver I make from £2000-£2400 a month, this is after tax, I consider this to be shit wages.

>>474652
Supposed to be a first world country but not really...

>>474647

There are places in the ghetto here that you can get for 20k, and somewhat more decent places that are in poorer condition that you can get for about 75k in fairly affluent cities that are between 50-100k in population size.

>>474656

Former Communist nations are considered 2nd World.

>>474654
I do java mainly. And ofcourse html5. and javascript. and ruby. and ....

That's what I'm talking about. Having that much of a salary I consider myself a milionaire.

numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

>>474659
Damn, I always thought it was. Now I'm feeling even worse after finding out about it. It doesn't change anything but still...

>>474660
there....

http://www.answers.com/Q/Is_Slovenia_a_first_world_country

any debate about x world country beyond this is pointless and not in the circle of this thread. Peace.

I live in the Czech republic and I make 600 usd a month. And I also work nigh shifts. Luckily I don`t have a family because they would starve.

>>474670

yup, czech, poland,... even worse. Poor you guys, for a man to work and still starve is just humiliating. Almost like european chinaman.

>>474590
I'm also from Slovenia, I can tell what is it all about.
Slovenia has had socialist government for 22 years. Even the right-wing government would still be considered socialist in western terms, though is much better than left wing. In 22 years of existence of Slovenia, there was right wing government for only 5 years.

We have the highest taxes in EU. You are being paid 900€ net salary / month, which equals to 13930 $ / year. Gross salary would be 1322 € per month or 20 458 $ / year. BUT gross employee cost (Yes we have DOUBLE tax on wages) would be 1535 € / month or 23754 $ / year, which is already somewhat reasonable.

On top of that, we also have rampant corruption, week judicial system, plenty of public companies, very strong democratic socialist movement, powerful unions, leftist mainstream media and if that isn't enough, remnants of Yugoslavian communist party still hold majority of the power.

If you wanted the situation to improve, you shouldn't have voted for the damn socialists...

>>474590

America is like a fat Brazil. There is a small class of highly paid technical functionaries, and a huge underclass of working poor getting $2 an hour.

>>474676
OP here. Good summary of facts. But I doubt there is much in our power to do with Germany dominating over smaller EU countries. Even if we manage to overcome our problems.

>>474590
No one in the US pays more than about 30% effective tax on earned income. The average income tax burden is just under 20%.

100k per year is a top job unless you live in a huge city or on the East or West coast.
It's over double the average yearly wage for Americans.

Either you're valuable or you're not. I'll probably make 100k by the time I'm thirdly. And I could easily make more if I decided to go into the oil industry, but that's boring.
>>474679
It also doesn't help that the factory jobs are all over seas. There's a large part of the population that needs jobs like that.

>>474689
where and what kind of work?

>>474684

That's not quite accurate, especially if you are considered to be self employed.

20% is Federal if you earn 40k-80k, but in my state for instance there is another 7.5% tax, and there is an additional 15.8% Federal tax for self employment. Someone earning 50k a year as a self employed individual is only 1k better off after taxes than someone earning 35k a year in this state, and we aren't even that highly taxed. That's actually part of why I'm considering expatriation at the moment.

>>474642
OP, you are doing it wrong.
You can't compare wages/prices like that.
Take Italy as an example. Slovenia shares a border with it, and yet... look at this screenshot.

You should generally look here to compare the cost of living: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp
Or, on Wikipedia, check the "GDP per capita (PPP)". PPP means Power of Purchase Parity.

>>474625
don't go to UK its even worse than america

go to america

>>474697
You're doing self-employment wrong if you are paying much payroll tax.
You should incorporate and pay yourself by dividends rather than all through normal wages.

And 7.5% state income tax is pretty high, I hope you have low property taxes to make up for it.

>FEELS, FEELS EVERYWHERE.

Spain here, a shitty flat is 120k MINIMUM for 1 toilet and 2 rooms in a shitty neighborhood.

1500 a month (after taxes) is considered an excellent salary.

Gasoline is 1'45€ a litre.

Double taxation on wages.

At the end of the year, with a 1500€ salary you'll pay roughly 45% of your income in taxes.

A normal salary is 800€ a month. with that salary near 35% percent goes to taxes at the end of the year. Pay for a shitty 120k flat with a real salary of ~550€ a month and then tell me you live in the first world.

Unemployment rate is 25-30%.

Unemployment rate for young people is near 50%.

And what does our government do with this? nothing, repressing protests and increasing retirement age to 67 years so the younger ones are even more fucked because boomers can retain their fucking jobs 2 more years.

And don't tell me that fucking "hurr durr universal healthcare" bullshit because they're destroying it, and it' didn't work too well before all this happent.

Europe is a hive of bullshit, the only ones doing goofd are the german-speaking countries and some of the nords. The rest of the continent is engineered for their pleasure.

I've had enough, Europe is shit, from now on I'll give americans my vote, their country fucking works.

EU is not the first world, is the second world, wake up niggers, we're poor as fuck and we were deluded to think we were rich just because we have cars.

EU should disband NOW, and the ECB should collapse over the heads of our politicians and kill them all.

>>474700
Ok so expenses vary a bit from town to town, obviously. but purchasing power is still lower here. That is what matters.

>>474707

>incorporate and pay yourself by dividends

That's fraud. People regularly go to jail for that. LLC income tax is pass through, meaning that it counts as self employment. How do you not know this?

>>474681

The only thing EU controls is Monetary politics.
The Germany is not making us:
Vote market socialists
Keep up huge public sector
Keep up costly and inefficient welfare state
Keep up with union's unreasonable demands
Keep plenty of public companies, which rely on agreement (translation?) economics instead of market economics
Keep highest taxes.

I suggest reading about libertarianism and Austrian school of economics (deeper knowledge). You will see economics from a new perspective and understand what is behind our problems and how we could fix them.

>>474713
Yes, but "only" 14% lower than Milan, Italy.
Not 52% lower (e.g. rents might give you that idea).
What I'm saying: you can't compare "raw" prices.
You have to relate prices to income, that is exactly what PPP gives you.

>>474590
I make $64,000 a year working a job in finance. I received an inheritance along with two houses and I bought another, I rent them all out for about $60,000 a year extra.

Fuck yeah real estate.

>>474722
>You will see economics from a new perspective and understand what is behind our problems and how we could fix them.

Except that no matter how much do we know, we cannot fix this mess. Do you think all those from the governing caste and their nepotist parasites will allow us to change things? Nope.jpg

>>474722
*Monetary politics is supply of money, with usage of instruments such as interest rates, open market operations, fractional reserve settings

>>474726
You are probably right. It would be very hard. Of course it would be even harder in Spain, with population of 47 millions than in Slovenia, with population of 2 millions.

>>474715
You still pay a salary to yourself just not the full salary you would have earned as a self-employed person. I'm not saying all the money you make through the business is paid in dividends, just a good portion of it.

And it depends on what status the LLC takes with the federal government to determine it's taxes. The default status of a single owner LLC is a disregarded entity that passes through all profits and losses as you said, but you can elect to have it treated as corporation by filing with the IRS.

Do you know what an S Corp is?

>>474737

I know what an S-Corp is, and it also can under certain conditions receive pass through exemption. However if you choose to file corporately you have to pay an entire set of corporate taxes that you would otherwise be exempt from regardless of if you are running an s corp or an LLC.

>>474737

Actually I looked it up and it's even worse: the corporate tax rate is 40%, and another 18% is taken out of what's left as your dividends for capital gains tax, which leaves you with less than half of what you started with, which is marginally worse than the 43.3% you would pay as self-employed income between 40-80k.

>>474590
My rent for a 2 bedroom apartment is $2150 a month. I get taxed at 30% do math on what income i would need to live comfortably

>>474590
>So tell me, how the fuck can you get up to 150k in USA as a programmer?

Stop being Europoor.

>>474899
I make considerably more than 150k as a programmer. I work hard to make myself salable and had a run of good luck. Where I work there are probably more Eurasians than americans.

>>474701
Why can't you fuckwits capitalize America?

I see this all the time on 4chinz, America is the only country that doesn't get capitalized properly.

Cost of living is probably much cheaper. The poverty line for a single-person household in America is about $11k income. From the internet, it looks like Slovenia's single-person poverty line is about ~7300 euros (~$9.5k dollars), but 13.5% of Slovenians are in poverty as compared to 15% of Americans.

These numbers look pretty close, but your crazy tax rates and low maximum income potentials mean that Slovenia has one of the lowest inequality rates in the OECD, while the United States has one of the highest. Pensions are pretty much dead.

I guess the obvious moral is that, in exchange for a bigger safety net, it's hard to get rich in the EU.

>>474952
>The poverty line for a single-person household in America is about $11k income.

*Whoops, more like $11.7k.

>>474603
Be carefull, those retards are from "Europe".

They aren't from a western country, It's like a mexican asking a french or a german about his salary.

"I am american and I earn 10 pesos/month, why are french so rich ?"

>>474976
kek, either contribute to the thread, or GTFO. I actually found it enlightening how situation is in Slovenia.

>>474985
I hate those fucker.

There's no border inside EU, those guy are flooding our coutries. You can recrute them and pay taxes in their own fucking shithole country.

Here we have roumanian doctors who don't speak the language and get paid like a nurse.
Construction workers who come from eastern country and get paid less than half of what you are legally required to pay a national.

It's like mexican coming legally working in the US + a law which require to pay american x2.

Fuck those leech and fuck EU.

>>474590
>I hear a lot of american people talking about salaries being more than 100k/yr like it's nothing.
>So tell me, how the fuck can you get up to 150k in USA as a programmer?
>There must be something wrong with this math. Living expenses are pretty much the same EU and USA. What is the difference?

There's nothing wrong with your math, except the base cost assumptions are wrong. I work in SF and pull $95k in construction. I spend 3 hours on public transit commuting. This commute saves me a lot of money. I'd spend ~$6k per month if I lived in the City, but the commute cuts that in half. All of the combined federal, state & local taxes, charges & withholdings consume ~30% of income. After expense, kids tuition, and my student loan debt I break even in every month but February.

Wish I could make this much still be hourly and not exempt. Then I could get overtime on the 50~70 hours I put in each week. (My reward is keeping my job.)

I think you're lucky in Europe, and I glad to have seen so many of you visiting SF last month on vacation. Please do keep coming here on vacation, we local welcome you and hope you have a great time. Don't just visit SF go see the redwoods, have some Napa wine, and Humbolt pot.

But go quickly through my home turf in the East Bay, keep your windows rolled up, doors locked, and don't stop or slow down. This side of the bay ain't that nice to funny sounding whites with too much money.

Also $150k per year isn't going to get you a very good progamer, and I'm really sorry SF smells like piss.

Europe will also become as dangerous as the US at these current immigration rates.

http://dev3.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/9/979/papers/Buonnano_etal.pdf

But yeah, Europe as a whole...less pay, (usually) more taxes (depends on where you live exactly), often shittier products....

But it seems to me that rent is cheaper and that SOME countries have affordable public transportation.

Public transportation in Germany, however, is NOT cheap.

>>475013
>and I'm really sorry SF smells like piss.

You would die in Europe, it ALL smells like piss.

Europe is very overrated, I think, outside of the nice rural areas in the West. Mfw Yuropoors only want to come to shitty places like LA, Miami, etc because it's what they see in TV.

Regards,
American who was once obsessed with Europe and lived there, then hauled ass out.
Protip: Their supermarket security is shit-tier.

cant speak for any yuropoors, but i live in the us and make over 100k a year.

yeah, im young and make good pay compared to most people, but it's still is no walk in the park.

1. the cost of living is crazy in big cities and basically places where there are good jobs. if i lived in montana or buttfuck nowhere and made 100k, i could buy a sick mansion for 400k... but i live in so cal and the average cost of a home is around 700k.

2. taxes. yeah, some of you socialists pay up the ass, but so do the super rich (i'm talking 1%ers).

here, the super rich lobby for easy tax laws and hire accountants that cost 140k just to do their taxes. they end up paying 11% at the end of the year (of money they report).

plebs like me end up paying 32%+ up front, and if i'm lucky, i'll get half of that back (emphasis on lucky).

so what happens is that the middle class here (think 60-200k a year) have a high cost of living, with much of their net income going to mortgages (and most of that going to interest)... couple that with lowered buying power because we pay a higher tax rate than super rich.

it all comes down to buying power and being edged out buy people around you making way way way more. that's why 100k is not much over here.

>>475013
> This side of the bay ain't that nice to funny sounding whites with too much money.
Is this the same East Bay where half of facebook now works?

>>475022
>You would die in Europe, it ALL smells like piss.
Have you visited San Francisco? If you see shit on the sidewalk in San Francisco (and you will) there is 100% chance that is human shit, not dog shit. Dog owners are much too pretentious in SF that I'm sure they lick their dog's assholes clean, but the city has such a terrible homelessness problem that certain areas of San Francisco smells like a gas stations bathroom.

6th - 9th on market st is the worst of it, which is fucking strange given that there are now (AFAIK) 3 billion dollar companies in that corridor (Twitter, ZenDesk and Spotify).

Any American outside of the bottom income quintile will be getting paid more and taxed less than his European equivalent. Furthermore, prices on pretty much everything ranging from real estate to food are much lower.

>>474679
Completely and utterly absurd. Beyond delusional.

Refer to American income quintiles compared to the rest of the Western world.

>>475060
>Have you visited San Francisco?
Yes

>that certain areas of San Francisco smells like a gas stations bathroom.

Doesn't sound any different than large cities in Germany, France, Italy, and England.
Human waste is not uncommon there.

Median household income in the US is only slightly above $50,000 on average. Household income is split between two people a lot of the time. Americans are in general not as rich as you might think. Most people don't make anywhere near close to $150k/ year. I know about 3 people that earn somewhere close to that amount out of all of my regular contacts. One works for the government in the EPA, another is in dentistry, and the third is in marketing.

We have to pay for our dental and medical costs. We have a pension system (social security) but payments are very small, and you need to save money to have at retirement. We have to pay for college. Public transportation is not that good so you need a car, and to pay for gas, road tolls, car repair etc.

We have a lot of out of pocket expenses that you might not.

>>475087

Americans are still richer. Their gdp is higher.

>>475087
>We have to pay for our dental and medical costs.
But the actual care itself is better, I've had many friends and acquitances from Europe and Canada, and they told me stories of having to wait weeks and months for procedures that would be same day in the US.

>We have a pension system (social security) but payments are very small, and you need to save money to have at retirement.
If people were financially responsible this wouldn't be a problem, but everyone wants to be "nigger rich" these days. Old folks who lived through the depression era and world wars knew how to save

>We have to pay for college.
Many students get scholarships, and again if you are smart about it, you can graduate with little debt by doing 2 years at junior college and working part time.

>Public transportation is not that good
Depends where you live, in NJ/NYC area public transport in on point.

>>475060
Yes same East Bay. We don't get the same props as SF, but I'd say we're more civilized than SF.

We shit in toilets not sidewalks.

>>474976
this. Europe doesnt mean shit. Tell your country. France and Slovania have nothing in common, salary wise.

that's partly why "Europe" iims a farce. Foecing together countries with so much differences is bound to make a nice big social explosion sooner or later.

I m lead peogrammer in France, now in Swiss, making close to 200.000 k dollars equivalent, gross.

>>475006
there there friend. It'll soon be over, this thung will crash sooner than you think

I got an entry-level job after uni and I'm getting something like 3k eur before taxes and end up with about 2.3k after taxes etc.
So that's what, $46k gross, $35k net?

Feels Finland, man.

>>475121

Europe either unifies or gets their shit kicked in by Asia 20 years down the road.

>>475089
so is their debt. are you new in this world? During the last 5 years, US made 5 dollars of new debt for 1 dollar of GDP. Guess how long it will last.
Protip : not forever

Majority are talking about salary and not net income. If you factor in all the expense after net income they probably make actually 25k or so. Since standard of living is so much higher, the wage have to compensate. Its nothing but inflation that's all I can say. I can go to Asia and say I am a millionaire but in reality that is not the case. It may cost a million Asia dollar for like a bottle of water.

>>474590

>>475060
Oh yeh. I visited san fran and fucking loved it. Why? All you locals were genuinely super psyched id come to visit. Authentically awesome people.

But i had to see the touristy stuff yeh?

Youre homeless are shameless! I couldnt believe it! Where im from the honeless are downtrodden trash they "beg" , around haight ashbury? It was like 33% homeless and i couldnt tell if i was being mugged or someone was begging. Not "got any change?" But "give me your hat!"

It was fucking whack mate. Great city though.

Non-american programmers tend to suck. I'm not saying that you do, but American programmers are getting paid a lot right now because companies are reluctant to outsource programming jobs.

You said you do mainly Java. Out of curiosity, do you do the standard SQL, JNI, and Android as well? Are you careful about directory traversals and null terminator vulnerabilities when you write to a file? Do you watch for potential string format errors whenever you read in a file? Do you take the time to understand the libraries you use and how their relevant parts are implemented to make sure they don't run into these issues? Do you take the time to understand the requirements and context before you start designing and coding? Do you document the cases you don't handle?

I've worked with a lot of developers from India and Korea, and the answers are usually "No" to everything.

>>475207

Don't doubt in my profession. I take my work seriously. We are not India freelancers.

Low quality is not an issue for our low salaries. I'm still a junior programmer but rarely any senior here will get up to €2k. They get around 1,5k net at best.

I recommend contributing to major open source projects to get your name out there. If you can afford it, go to a university and submit papers to conferences. If you're good, you absolutely will get recognized, and you will get six figure offers.

Can you link to some of your work? Any recent side project will do.

>>475219
Talking to >>475213

>>474701
>>474948
UK is where everyone is going. I don't even like UK's culture, there are so many chavs. I'd be happier seeing ghetto people than chavs. Even if I go to murrica someday, I need to save money since I would be going all alone.
Money wise murrica is better than UK. I thought it was something difficult to get into murrica. wasn't it?

>>475219

Yes, I was planing to do that or some freelancing, and I also made an Android game. If I post some work I won't be anon anymore. Besides, we are not talking about me here, we are talking about average Joe (American) and average Janez (Slovenian for Joe)

>>474708
You're one of the socialist faggots who are gonna fuck spain over again.
We might have a shitty PM, but we are the only Euro country who is in recovery thanks to the reforms.
Spain has no future because of young socialists like you.

>tfw when have a 16k/yr job
>considered high/successful in my country

third world feels

but prices of stuffs are low I guess, I can buy 7 boxes of cigarette with the price of 1 box in US

>>475244
Ahahahahaha!!!

1 Spain is in recovery? Please man, wait 4 more years and let's see what happens. That "recovery" is just some statistical artifact.

2 Socialist? Watch your words, man, socialists are as bad as the PP. I don't trust that Podemos party, either.

3 Spain has no future because of it's shitty economical culture and the stupid boomers who keep making stupid decisions and let themselves be deluded by whatever fake debate the TV tells them to think about each trimester. Oh, well, this group might include dumb millenials too (which are the most part of them).

Watch your words before spitting an opinion, faggot. Don't call me socialist when I'm praising the USA's way of doing things.

Keep voting the PP, you braindead boomer. Also keep watching intereconomía or whatever is called now, I bet Jimenez Losantos cock is tasty for you, libegggal.

>>475333
>That feel when 1 pack of cigarettes in Spain is as expensive as in the USA but our best salaries are like the minimum wages there.

Fuck Spain.

And I don't even smoke.

>>475244
>spain
>the only Euro country who is in recovery

wrong on so many levels

>>475333

3.9€ for a pack in SLO.

>>475333
4$ for a pack in Lithuania and minimum wage is 400$. So if you smoke one pack a day you're already spending a lot of money on cigs.

>>475022
>Protip: Their supermarket security is shit-tier.
what do you even need that for? unless you live in some shithole country nobody is going to steal anything

most bigger ones have some security personnel and electric security checks at the checkout

combined with everything stinking of piss (wat) i can only assume you're a poor troll

>> To everyone in this thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

>>475244
>>475244
>the only Euro country who is in recovery thanks to the reforms.

Wrong. As they said, Spain is not the only EU country "recovering from something else, also, as they said, your "recovery" is nothing but a fleeting illusion.

Look to Japan after their real state bubble: despite all their best efforts, their strong work ethic, their freedom to manipulate the value of their own currency, their strategic position to export to a whole growing continent, their access to cheap goods because is surrounded by 3rd world countries that provide cheap materials in bulk, despite being able to export anything from computers to cars to comics, despite overworking their inhabitants to the point of suicide, despite investing heavily in research and development... and it's still wrecked by that fucking crisis.

Do you think that your corrupt, backwards thinking, economically enslaved country with a dying middle class will do better? Nigga, you export just vegetables and wine, and your toursim industry is not what it used to be, and your internal market is agonizing along with your middle class.

You're fucked beyond repair for half a century, no matter what the mass media tell you to keep your hopes high so you don't join a riot. Pray the future generations do better than yours.

>socialist faggots

As long as I know, spanish "socialist" party is not socialist at all. See the east europe socialist parties? those have more of a socialist flavour, and even then are not real socialists, not at least in the URSS style of SOCIALISM.

>who are gonna fuck spain over again.

Wasn't it that hitler look-a-like PM you had who started the housing and soil bubbles?

I mean, all your governments have been shitty, but to be honest, the ones who started all that shitstorm where the right-wing guys, right?

I think you have some heavy biases there in your head. That or you're deluded and brainwashed.

Shit, you're dense, man.

$100,000 is only €76,000 and is only £62,000.

€100,000 is $130,000 and £100,000 is $161,000.

American dollar is worth a lot less than euros and pounds. So what's your point OP?

>>475398
Add to that the fact my shitty small business makes about £200,000 a year which is $322,000. Who's the poorfags now burgerclaps

>>475244
(cont'd)
>Spain has no future because of young socialists like you.

Spain has no future because the boomers/prior governments have fucked it beyond repair.

With an unemployment of 50% spanish youngsters have no future already. And if you start your 20's-30's without employment or posibilities to build a portfolio, how the fuck do you hope to build a future for your 40's and 50's? Even worse given your shitty salaries!

If Spanish youngsters have no future it's bcause the boomers have just stolen it in the 2000's.

So the boomers took big as fuck mortgages without thinking what they were doing, and when all the shit exploded, the fault is on the next generation?

Nice way to think psycho.

With that situation and the prior generation blaming them for a future they will never have and they didn't fucked up, how the hell aren't they going to trust anybody saying that there's a different way for them? That's sociology 101!! If I was in Spain I would fucking start a revolution against boomers!!!!

Reading your post I think you must be a really bad person. You lack a minimum of empathy, you believe what the media tolds you and put the blame on people who is disoriented and desperate for a beam of hope.

YOU are the one that is destroying your country.

I feel sorry for spaniards. To bear the burden of deluded egotists like you while surviving an economical crisis akin to that of a war, while the country rips apart and then being blamed for the sinking of the country must be such an ordeal.

No wonder they migrate to countries just to be called "the new turks".

You're such an asshat. I want you to look at a baby and really think if "young socialists" are the ones to blame for what just happent or what is going to happen in the next years in yout country.

Also, remember, that tomorrow's mistakes are the result of yesterdays mistakes, and youngsteres weren't to blame for those. But wel, may be it's impossible to see that to such an asshat like you.

>>475097
>Many students get scholarships

I agree with your other points and I also agree how in America there is far more potential to succeed than in (most) of Europe, but I''d like to point out that getting scholarships is nearly impossible now if you're white and a male in many areas and schools.

This whole "white privilege" insanity has reached the actual educational establishment. I graduated with a good GPA from one of the toughest high schools in California and had a high SAT score around 2000. Did a foreign language cert, martial arts on the side, founded a martial arts club at school (that was tough to get by the 'zero tolerance' shit), had an award in a foreign language that only 2 in my state got,etc....

What did I get? Fucking NOTHING. I got a 600 dollar scholarship for books from a Fortune 500 engineering firm I interned at in 12th grade and it expired before I could buy necessary books with it.

In contrast, every nigger and spic, especially the girls, that I know who volunteered in some half-ass social, literary, or poetry club in school and graduated with above a 2.5 got some sort of scholarship.

I also knew a few Asians with top-tier GPAs and amazing academics who were turned down on most or all of their scholarships.

I heard white people can still get them in some rural areas of the Midwest, though. One can only dream.

But yeah, CC is the way to go for the first 2 years.

Captcha: nghloo....I shall pronounce it "nig-loo".

>>475409
>everything is everyone's fault but mine
did you vote obama

>>475381
Oh, come on, every historic inner-city area of Western Europe smells like piss to some extent. Heidelberg, Berlin, Paris, Strasbourg, London, Venice....huge areas are stinking shitholes with garbage everywhere (heidelberg less so with garbage).

>what do you even need that for? unless you live in some shithole country nobody is going to steal anything

Since the Romanians let the gpysies out into the EU there's been more theft. Also, Turks n shit are always trying to steal electronics. Where I lived, it was very expensive to even live as a student, so let's just say I frequented many supermarkets for groceries, because I had no other choice.

>electric security checks at the checkout
In the country I was in, I noticed that a good deal (not most, but still a lot) were either broken or never worked in the first place.

>most bigger ones have some security personnel

Security is shit, except at Lidl . Lidl expects poor and/or stupid and/or antisocial people to come and try to steal, so they tend to put a mean-looking guard in the front who actually chases people.

Nearly all other grocery stores just put some bored looking people in the front who will drink and smoke in front of the store or simply not do their duties properly.

>>474976
This. There's a HUGE difference in cost-of-living. Proprtionately speaking, they're actually significantly better off than Americans.

I'm in Australia and was making $30k a year at my first McDonald's job.
>Which is literally nothing.

>>475435
>This. There's a HUGE difference in cost-of-living.

You're right, but there is also a huge difference in quality received for that cost of living.

For example, rent in Europe IS cheaper, that's for sure. However, in America, I generally receive a newer home with more efficient utilities and most importantly - SPACE. Western Europe felt so god damn packed all the time.

If I'm not an idiot and choose where to spend my money, I have far more and better choices in the US as compared to most of Europe.

>dat cheap french cheese do
that was so nice

Okay so there's obviously the difference between the euro and the dollar for one.
In the USA we generally speak of our untaxed wage, in example I would say "I make $100K a year" which is different from taking home $100K a year.

The other difference is the modern USA has a rapidly disappearing middle class, we don't have middle income earners. We have $140k+ upper white collared 'wealthy class' and then there is the normal white collar workers who made $60k-$100k who are being unemployed in droves. Everyone below that line is poor and going below $20k has you impoverished, unless you live in a very cheap cost of living area.

>>475439
even our engineers are being outsourced and going elsewhere

we are descending into brazil-ness

>>474590

Pa ne morš primerjat naše socialistične vukojebine z državami prvega sveta no...

>>475433
>Since the Romanians let the gpysies out into the EU there's been more theft
source

> I frequented many supermarkets for groceries, because I had no other choice.
what other choice is there? also what's bad about going to supermarkets?

i've been to all of the cities you listed except venice and apart from london and paris those haven't been dirty at all

which country were you in?

>oceanfront
>in Bulgaria

Dat USA education

>>475443
http://www.catholic.org/news/international/europe/story.php?id=51754

France getting pissed at gypsies coming from Romania:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11020429

http://www.d-intl.com/2013/10/01/how-the-eu-forced-a-gypsy-problem-on-europe/?lang=en

This one is interesting:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-03-29/gypsy-child-crime-wave-grips-europe/384024

BNP is kind of wacky, but they sum it up very well....when "Romanians"(gypsies) left Romania for England, crime in England surged, but crime actually went down in Romania.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/eu%E2%80%99s-freedom-movement-rules-caused-romanian-gypsy-%E2%80%9Ccrime-wave%E2%80%9D-britain

>i've been to all of the cities you listed except venice and apart from london and paris those haven't been dirty at all

Well, yeah, if you just hang around the Branderburger Tor in Berlin where it's cleaned up for the tourists, you won't see trash. East Berlin is dirty as fuck, though, and hookers EVERYWHERE.

Heidelberg is very clean due to the high levels of wealth, I suppose, but I honestly thought the whole Altstadt smelled like piss.

>what other choice is there? also what's bad about going to supermarkets?
Lel, I don't think you understood what I was trying to tell you earlier. There is a REASON why I know how bad supermarket security in Germany/Austria/Italy is so bad and why I was watching security guard habits....


>which country were you in?
Somewhere in Central Europe.

I'd like to add that large German cities are sometimes dirtier than even black neighborhoods in the US. Nothing like Detroit, of course, but I have seen hoods in the American SE that had less beer bottles, trash, and wrappers flying around on the sidewalk.

>>474666
This is NOT FUCKING FUNNY.

Where I live, the cost of living is 69.5. NEW FUCKING YORK is 100.

And the median salary in my country is €689. This makes for €8268, or $10748,4 YEARLY.

This is more than THREE TIMES lower than the AVERAGE US WAGE (which is around $35k a year), yet the cost of living is just 40% lower than in the US.

Adjusting this to the cost of living and salaries, this means that living in the shithole where I'm from is 180% more expensive than in the US.

Where's the fucking justice.

Also
>>474590
Call me a retard, but what's the difference of
>24k/yr net worth
and
>50k/yr gross
?

>>475475
i don't see any sources in these articles

gypsies are mainly in italy, balkans and UK. not where in germany

>Lel, I don't think you understood what I was trying to tell you earlier. There is a REASON why I know how bad supermarket security in Germany/Austria/Italy is so bad and why I was watching security guard habits....
>literally stealing
why?

also, why don't you want to name the country?

>>475481
>Adjusting this to the cost of living and salaries, this means that living in the shithole where I'm from is 180% more expensive than in the US.


Government bureaucracy. Most Europeans find out one day and admit how fucked it is. A notable exception is Germans. I myself am a German-speaking German-American (no accent). Germans will literally disown one of their own if you speak out against their system and how fucked it is.

I am NOT a patriotard. The US has many MANY flaws (like how we work more hours than the Europeans, less holidays, way less vacation, shittier retirement, etc...lots of Americans get worked close to death with a 1 hour morning commute followed by 9 hours of work and then a commute back home + some work at home).

A friend of mine from Latvia once told me how corrupt his government was. They just put all sorts of random taxes in everywhere, yet those taxes rarely went into actual public works....aka they went into paying politicians and banks.

The US is fucked and so is Europe. However, you honestly have more space, choice, and a higher chance of success in the Western hemisphere.

>Call me a retard, but what's the difference of

net is after taxes, gross is before.
germans say netto and brutto, maybe you guys use that too

>>475481

>YFW New York salaries are almost double than in the rest of USA because "NYC is an expensive city so salaries are higher"

>YFW 50k a year is considerd "average" in NYC

>YFW you're even poorer than your first calculations showed

>>475486

>. not where in germany

Wo wohnst du in Deutschland? In Deutschland gibts ueber 100k (ungefaehr so viel wie in england) und die hocken alle um die grossstaedt herum. zb hamburg, berlin, frankfurt. hab keine jemals in muenchen gesehen

>>475481
>>475492

Also, add that to the fact that you're much more heavily taxed than amerifags, which fucks even more your numbers, since this link just talked about the COST of goods compared to the average salary, but didn't take in account the % of your salary you pay for taxes.

captcha: yoeedsc comforted

>>475495
bawü

100k sind jetzt auch nicht so viele, dass berlin und frankfurt davon besonders betroffen sind is ja klar. da tummelt sich schließlich der ganze abschaum

>>475498
ach komm man, bawu ist sau-reich im vergleich zu fast ueberall anders ausser bayern. (ich lebte in west bawu)

die einzige stadt in bawu die echt asozial geworden ist ist karlsruhe. ueberall fluechtlinge, kanacken, usw.

also zigeuner hab ich auch krass in hamburg mitgekriegt.

lebst du ufm land oder in der stadt? es gibt naehmlich krasse unterschieden. mir kams so vor als ob die landsleute nur zum einkaufen in die stadt gegangen sind und dann nur in den schoenern teilen waren. ich war ein armer student in ner kanackennachbarschaft, ueberall dreck, assis, besoffene, wurde von polizei gehasselt, usw

und ich find wirklich WIRKLICH ernsthaft dass heidelberg schlecht gerochen hat, obwohls ne wunderschoene stadt ist.

>>475496
Some Eastern Europeans actually pay less taxes than us.

>inb4 graft replaces their taxse

Conclussion of this thread. BY AN EUROFAG.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578427/One-20-prisoners-England-Wales-gypsies-4-300-bars.html

>>475511
Only if you succeed here.

The "no ceiling, no floor" metaphor is very apt in the US. You can rise very high, but there is no net to catch you. This can be stressful for many.

>>475504
oh...und heilbronn war auch ein drecksloch.
polizisten, kanacken, penner.

ich hoer nicht wirklich gern rechtsrock, aber ich hoer im moment "Doener Killer" von Gigi weil ich im moment flashbacks von dreckigen eselficker hab.

Easterneurope/10
In the Netherlands the average income is abt $43k/year gross, or abt $30k/year net.
I'm working as a project manager with 3 years of experience and earn abt 50k/year gross.

Europe isn't as equal as a lot of people hope/think.

>>475518
Like there's any net to atch you here.

One in every 3 cildren in Spain is starving, man.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/world/europe/hunger-on-the-rise-in-spain.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

But that's probably the falt of "young socialists", who weren't able to vote anything important yet.

Right, faggot who posted >>475244?

>>475524
Big city or countryside?

>>475524
Now take away your taxes, and compare what there's left to the prices in the USA and discover that you're "relatively poorer".

Wake up

>>475526
Wow, I didn't know that - that's insane.

At the same time - consider that large swathes of Europe and the world are not sustainable at all. If trade breaks down or a huge trade blockades happen, most of Western Europe will starve. Large areas of Eastern Europe can feed themselves, though.

I'm not really for socialism, but I'm also not a super capitalist, either.

Default on the debt, kick out immigrants, and retake Morocco. Also, stop pursuing such a consumerist lifestyle -something I often see among southern Europeans.

Do you think Spain was better under Franco (economically, not socially)? When do you think Spain was off the best?

>inb4 1600s spanish empire

>>475488
>germans say netto and brutto, maybe you guys use that too
Yeah we do that. Thanks for explaining.

But why would anyone talk about salaries in netto if taxes differ from person to person depending on lots of stuff? Why not use brutto instead?

>>475508
I'm from Eastern Europe.

50% goes away into someones elses pockets, not mine.

>>475492
Add to the fact that I made a mistake aswell. I said that living in where I'm from is 40% cheaper than in US, but it's actually 30%.

Yaay for me.

>>475537
>But why would anyone talk about salaries in netto if taxes differ from person to person depending on lots of stuff? Why not use brutto instead?


Because Brutto is pre-taxes. That means that two people who both earn 100k brutto and live in different areas of the world have very different wealth levels. Someone with 100k brutto in New York is poor compared to someone with 100k brutto in Wyoming. The person in Wyoming will have far more netto salary after taxes and generally have a higher purchasing power.

>>475541
Oh yea I forgot you have different taxes in different states.

>>475539
>Add to the fact that I made a mistake aswell. I said that living in where I'm from is 40% cheaper than in US, but it's actually 30%.
Re-did my calculations.

The actual number is that it's 195% shittier to live in where I'm from than in the US.

This is not taking into account taxes.

>>474590
What more annoying.

Product in murrica 500$, same in ue 500euros

>>475046
Move up to NorCal. You can get practical mansions on da hillsides for like 400k up in Humboldt, for instance. Just be happy making 15/hr as a professional/college grad.

>>475545
>Humboldt

All I think of is weed

>>474629
Avg month salary in Poland ~ 1k $

House 50km from Warsaw 500k $ >
Flat in post commie block on 9th floor in warsaw 150k $

fml

>>475549
But are your interest rates as cutthroat as here?

>>474590
Google pay in california 10k $/month for programmers, but cost of living are probably very high.

In eu you have free healt care.

Im pretty sure that in norway you can earn 10k $ as programmer aswell

>>475553
>but cost of living are probably very high.

Silicon Valley food, gas, and housing costs are insane.

>>475160
Yeah, well, Height Ashburry is right near GG Park. I bet if the housing prices of SF go up any more, there will be a higher population in GG Park than in SF - GGP.

>>475536
While Franco was a dictator who did many wrong things, and had really no idea of economy, he allowed (in his last years) some really intelligent technocrats to "do something with the country". They took of a country which was almost in the middle age and turned it into the 8th industrial power of its time in just 2 decades.

The best age was probably the 80s just a couple of years after Franco died, so the economy was still OK while people had their freedom back, and MAYBE the early 2000s, just before the bubble fucked it all.

And yes, I agree, default the fucking debt. Morocco is not of any interest, plenty of muslims who hate us, not an strategic place, although I agree we could try to get some colonies to re-join us (some of them really want to), this would give us some strategic overseas ports to play a bit with commerce, much like France and UK do with the teritories they still keep in the americas.

But we cannot have the fucking doors open to any immigrant while having a 30% unemployment rate. It just makes no senses.

But we need a DEEP industrial transformation. We're selling plenty of vegetables, but we could do much more, there's plenty of human potential wasted, from engineers to STEM graduates to artists who are good in their fields.

Hell, we could just pick a technological field with a good future projection and work the fuck up to lead it in a decade, just like Taiwan made. We have our engineers cleaning toilets for illiterate boomers at inefficient bars, while we could have them designing robots, programs or whatever.

Also, this country has plenty of potential for energy production and export, but big electric companies don't want us to become energetically independent because "muh shekels" and the systemic corruption of our politicians keeping those old, inefficient companies where they are.

If you want to condense in 2 words: wasted potential

Now waiting for the next faggot to tell me how much of a socialist traitor I'm.

>>475553
>In eu you have free healt care

Guess why our taxes are higher.

It's not free. Trust me.

>>475504
>>475521
muss gerade lachen, karlsruhe ist meine heimatstadt und ich wohne jetzt in heilbronn wegen studium

>>475572
ich hab aber über die hälfte meiner kindheit auf dörfern in stadtnähe gewohnt, ja

jetzt in heilbronn wohne ich durch zufall auch in einer wg die im wohlhabenden teil der stadt liegt, stadtrat und bürgermeister wohnen hier

>>475565


>We're selling plenty of vegetables, but we could do much more

IMO, you really want to keep a strong agrarian sector of some kind. Countries who rely purely on tech and can't feed themselves are devastated in economic bubbles. Imagine what would happen to Japan if just 2-3 of their big industrial companies went down the drain.


> Morocco is not of any interest, plenty of muslims who hate us, not an strategic place

Morocco is very important due to the crops that are grown in the north + luxury crops grown on the coast. Plus, Spaniards need more land, anyways. Also, taking Morocco would allow Spain to directly take the Strait of Gibraltar and control immigration more easily.

Just move the Muzzies....

> but big electric companies don't want us to become energetically independent

How can Spain be energy independent? Not on Green Energy...trust me, it's largely a scam. Most Green Energy projects fudge their numbers (anyone remember the algae-power fiasco?)

Does Spain have gas? Coal?

>>475575
meine freundin kommt aus nem dorf bei heilbronn. lustig.

ich studierte in karlsruhe. einfach furchbar. teuere wgs (300 KALTMIETE und ich muss es noch teilen!?!?).

Ihr habt echt zu viele kanacken in HB. harmoniepark nachts, zb, was fuer eine hoelle...

und die leute betteln doch an der kirche da...wie heisst die? da sind ein paar zigeuner. Die in der mitte von der hauptstrasse in der innenstadt? die wurde doch so irgendwie nachkriegszeit restoriert. bei der bushaltestelle?

>>475582
jo in heilbronn ists schon schlimm, karlsruhe hört man leider auch öfters mal irgendwas

karlsruhe ist ne teure stadt, allerdings sei froh dass du nicht in stuttgart studiert hast, dort ist es nochmal ne ecke teurer

an der kirche hängen in hn keine leute mehr rum. allerdings am fluss beim soleo hallenbad trinken oft die penner um 9uhr morgens schon ihr bier

>>475567
My friend works in Norway, he gets almost 13k $/month from networking.

Nort of yourps is lefts wing all the way.
Cost of house in oslo is probably similar to this in california.

They are forcing public transport etc.

But 60% of Norway GDP is from oil.

I guess that the best way is to get remote work in california company and live in thiland or some cheap yourp country.

Poland despite being poor is probably way safer to live in thant most of us states.

>>475591
oha, ich vermiss es im salzwasser im solleo rumzuplanschen. das war eine von den einzigen guten erlebnissen fuer mich in deutschland lol.

waren da nicht grad vor ein paar monate bei der kirch irgendwelche fluechtlinge mit so einem hilfsorganizationsschild?

lol und bedenk mal - BW hat wenig auslaender im vergleich zu NRW und so....

wann kommt der naechste holocaust? bald, bitte!

>tfw deutsche haben mich als auslaender angesehen wegen meim pass und haben eher ali und ahmed als deutscher angesehen

so ein verrat, so ein gehirnwaesche

>>475527
Big city "Randstad" region
>>475528
That's why I'm applying for a position in the US. Europe is poorer, but there's a lot of exaggeration here. Benefits are roughly 800$/month here. No way people are working for 700 whilst they could just as easily move to the Netherlands and get more doing nothing but jack off and watch anime

>>475594
soleo hat salzwasser?
wusste ich gar nicht, muss da auch endlich mal hin

von flüchtlingen weiß ich nix, allerdings war diesen frühling irgendwann mal ne veranstaltung für kurden, dass man ihnen asyl gewähren sollte oder was auch immer

>tfw no reichskristallnacht v2

>>475595
I don't think they will do that. If you move to the Netherlands, it's cause you can
1) jack off
2) watch anime
3) while having a puff.

LOL LOL! No seriously. You can even pay for pro banging so earning shitloads of money actually has a meaning there.

LOL!! No seriously, let's try once again... Sriosy... it gets damn boring not doing anything useful in the long run...

>>475629
Are you okay what the fuck

>>475578
We've got small gas and oil deposits, but nothing important.

I was thinking about solar power. I know it's not really profitable, but now think that we are paying inflated prices for electricity.

With salaries lower than Italy or Cyprus, we're paying the megawatt/hour at the same price as Germany, and all because the politicians on the government are corrupted and allow electric companies to raise the prices in exchange for millionaire retirements paid by those same companies.

This way, even if we went full nuclear, our industry is paying a very very very overpriced electricity that it's dragging its profitability down. No matter how much a worker produces, it's not as profitable if your factory is paying an electricity which is 30-50% more expensive than it should be.

So even if solar is a scam, just being free from those corrupt companies and being able to stablish more rational prices would prove to be a benefit and increase industrial profits.

Indeed, there have been projects, companies and cooperatives that tried to achieve this, and they were succeeding, providing cheaper electricity at a local scale, until the government saw what they were doing and slammed them down.

>>475593

Well, Oil makes a big difference...

But it's still funny... left wing government.... oil... why the fuck aren't they being "democratized" by the US lol?

>>475541
Well netto doesn't always tell the whole truth either. In the end it's what you can buy in practice / or what you're allowed to do with your money (at all) which matters..

>>475578
>IMO, you really want to keep a strong agrarian sector of some kind.

Also, I agree, we can keep it. But with a 30% unemployment, specially higher for young people and graduates, I think we could ad some industry ONTOP OF THAT. This country could be a fucking powerhouse if we kept our agriculture, revamped tourism and became good at 2 or 3 technological/industrial fields.

But instead of that people (and politicians) prefer to do nothing and take some tapas while watching bullfighting and saying "oh wow we're spanish, we're special and cool".

There's no future for people who doesn't to fight for it.

>>475526
Americans trying to portray europeans as having economic troubles. We've seen that one before :P

Someone in trouble : "oh shit look over there, an elephant!!"

>>475632
Well he should be feeling bad now, shouldn't he? ;)

>>475226
Britain is a fucking dump. Don't move there.

>>475244
>>475393
>>475409

This guy really got his ass handed to him holy shit.

>>475481
Well your country is refered to as poor for a reason.

>>475637
Solar is the best when comes to freedom. You can produce your own just next to where you live. Don't have to depend on other companies supplying you...

>>475646

Ha, I'm an spanish, man, I've seen this happening. There's even an NGO to help feed those children.

It's not the first time I have to get food from my fridge to give to a friend who has nothing for dinner. And I'm not talking baout NEETS, but about people who used to have jobs. Now just imagine if they had children in the "good years", if now they can't feed themselves, imagine their children.

>>474679
The technical fucntionaries are making a difference. But there are loads of "manage IP rights" fat clump of employees making everything lots of more expensive than it'd have to be.

>>475702
except for supplying the panels

good luck lining every inch of your roof with those and making enough power to live, and maybe they will have paid for themselves after 40 years or so, if they're still working

https://myspace.com/thestatedvd/video/free-market-economy/60150587

this should explain everything OP

A teacher from Russia here
I'm making $6k a year.
Haters gonna hate. R-right?

>>475624
das aussenbecken im soleo ist doch mit salzwasser gefuellt?

ich wurde mal von ein paar tuerken in heilbronn nachts angegriffen. die haben versucht meine freundin anzufassen, hab sie kanacken beschimpft, und BUM zwei auf eins! die brauchen immer mehr wie 1-1, gel? noch oben drauf waren die beiden bestimmt 25-30. ich war 18.

polizei ist natuerlicheweise spaet angekommen, hat nichts gemacht, tuerken (kurden?) sind in die nacht verschwunden. ueberall beweis, aber, wie gesagt, polizei hat nichts gemacht.

gottseidank wurde ich nicht wirklich verletzt, nur ne dicke lippe. der eine kanack hat auch von mir einen richtigen tritt in den bauch bekommen ;D

>>474590
OP you must live in a shitty part of Europe. I make 52k a year in USD, and my job is being a radiographer, and we make the same as nurses, ie. shit. I finished my education a year ago. in ~7 years my salary will be around 70k.

If i had this salary in the US, I'd feel rich as fuck because of low taxes and the low cost of living compared to here. Though in return i get 6 weeks paid vacation and only work 37 hours a week.

I live in a nordic country btw.

>>475780
norway or denmark? Surely not sweden or finland...right?

>>475783
You are correct.

>ITT: idiots who think Europe is one country with equal wealth everywhere

I make around $150k a year as a programmer. Switzerland here.

>>475800
>SWIT FUCKING ZERLAND
>country where worthless McDonald's workers earn like $4,500 per month

Sorry but you're not qualified to talk in this thread (not even in the E.U. to begin with). Most of E.U. is semi-starving.

>>475803
Quit being so deluded. I could make similar money in a few other European countries because I'm a specialist with the credentials to back it up. I earn far more than the average here.

>>474616
Lithuanian as well, have a similar mindset, let''s co-operate.

>>474697

Combined federal, state, and local taxes as a percentage of GDP in the US was 28.7% at the end of 2013. It's been between 25% and 30% since the late 1960's.

7.5% on income at the state level for $40,000 - $80,000 in income is insanely high.

>>475945
California is worse. So very much worse.

Stop saying "I live in an EU country" like it gives you some credibility.
Holy fuck, there are so many different countries in the EU. Lithuania is in the EU and it's shit. Germany is in the EU and it's not shit. I live in Croatia and we're in the EU and we're shit. It's kinda pointless to point out that you're from the fucking "EU" if you live in a shitty country ran by shitty incompetent people.

>>475945
Ha!

Spain, 50%. Another 50% of that 50% if you run a business. Plus 300€ monthly if you work as a freelancer.

Come at me bro.

>>474590
eh?

Entry level here is 20,000 GBP, entry and registered is 31,000 GBP in my profession.
>Sadly the typical cap is at 50,000GBP

After tax it's pretty shitty figures around the 16K, 23K and 34K region.

>>475898
A friend of mine from Lithuania once said that you guys have the most atrocious energy bills each month. Is this true?

>>475949
>Germany is in the EU and it's not shit

lel, and Germany is shit compared to large areas of the US

>>475988
During the heating seasons, absolutely.

>>474603
I'm a Brit. I'm on £28k/year plus a company car. It's my first job after graduating.

OP is full of shit

>>475949
you ever been to Lithuania or lived there to claim that it's shit?

>>475988
we had a nuclear plant fully functional, still from the soviets, but it had to be closed when we joined EU because "safety". we were selling electricity to EU, now we buy it from germany

>>477116
Is that net or gross?

I'm on a base salary of €87k a month as a top management level civil engineer with an MBA (12 years of work experience). On top of that my company is somewhat lulzy on special extras so everyone here gets paid for 15 months instead of the usual 13 months.

That gets me to like 108k. I also get a company car (BMW 530D or simiar), a phone, a laptop and an expense budget.

I also have 2 studios I rent out during the year for €920 a month.

Overall that brings me to around 120k a year before taxes.

I get to keep like 70k of that and then you pay 21% VAT on practically everything but food and non-alcoholic drinks.

Which country am I from?

>>477139
So yeah. 100k Netto a year is almost impossible unless you have your own mid-sized company or are the CEO of a mid/large sized one in this country.

That and ofc inherited moneyfags with over 5M who just get interests.

>>477139
I meant 87k a year ofc top kek gib monie pls.

>>474590
LOL, are you from poland or something?

>>474623
Lol a programerji res tako malo sluzijo al kaj?

>>475752
just migrate

>>475811
>I could make similar money in a few other European countries

other countries like Liechtenstein, Luxemburg or Monaco?

>>477175
or swiss, uk, scandinavian states

>>475800
D-Do you have a PhD or something?
And did you have to prove yourself, or did you get the job straight out of college?

>>474616
>I'll be trying to set up some websites with google adsense, 400$ a month would be the minimum salary.

Shit nigger, that would be easy if you are dedicated and know what you are doing. I used to have a site earning about $450/month before it got raped by a Google update, although admittedly I wasn't trying very hard to be successful and was just sort of coasting after I lost interest in it.

Still, it's a great way to make money if you are capable of being a dedicated writer and writing great content to make money legitimately. I know a girl who owns a few websites that make her like $70k/year now in mostly automated income selling ebooks and shit.

>>477199
I'm fucking tired of these telemarketers trying to shill their shit to make more people fall into whatever clickring they have.

I wish we could ban them

>>477196
Master's in CS and MBA. It does pay off to educate yourself and get some fancy title letters. Also I worked at code monkey jobs for years, so when the time was right, I applied for the higher paid jobs that are for experienced and skilled people.

>>477269
Wow that's impressive, so I take it you're born in Switzerland, I was thinking about working there, or Germany for a few years after I get my masters in Finance. It's almost 10 times the amount I'd be making back in Slovenia, whether I could actually land a job there is another question though.

>>477172

Ja. Kakor prideš iz študentskega dela na redno zaposlitev se tvoja plača zniža. V najboljšem primeru ostane ista. Programerji nismo izjeme.

>>474590
>>474590
>Need something explained. I hear a lot of american people talking about salaries being more than 100k/yr like it's nothing. Nothing special at least.
>I live in EU and just can't imagine a salary for a decent job being more than 20k/yr.


For all the shitposting we do, you must remember. America is very rich and in certain areas the cost of living is very low as well.

I live in Chicago and it has fallen apart in the 6 years I've been here. From cleanest city I've ever seen to having to watch where you step downtown because of human feces. Homeless on every corner asking for money, many of them are college grads with kids who have been unemployed for years. I have a job but most of my colleagues from school don't and their career prospects are 0 because they've been unemployed for 2+ years. Blight from south and west side has penetrated downtown and crimerates are soaring; Chicago police gave up and resorted to fudging the numbers so it looks better. Chickens coming home to roost from the project where they put subsidized housing into good neighborhoods - now those neighborhoods are gang crime hotspots and white flight is in full effect. You should see how packed the suburban train stations get, all white people.

Hoping to move to Seattle at some point but their financial sector is really underdeveloped so limited opportunities.

>>474590
r u europoor running out semen rations?

>So tell me, how the fuck can you get up to 150k in USA as a programmer?

No idea. But in accounting I can make $150k in about 5-7 years, depending on location. That's total compensation including salary, bonus, and stock incentive.

I'm in my third year and make $68k with a 5k bonus.

And we're talking Junior Exec level here...not of this stuff accountant bullshit.

>>477289
Actually I'm not Swiss, I just work here. But I can tell you it's worth it to raise you market value, get good degrees and skills, and then you can look for work almost anywhere.

Germany is not a bad choice at all. You're EU, so you can look for a good job almost anywhere in Europe. Do it, it's easy with internets these days.

>>474590
Taxes here vary state to state but federal on average you're gonna pay about 25-30% in taxes. I'm in my first year as a developer in a place with really low cost of living in the states. I make 45k a year coming in with no experience other than school. next pay jump should be about 20%.

>>477139

Republic of Ireland?

>>478180
Did you have any trouble with the language, is it a huge problem if you can't speak german or french at all?

>>478239
Not speaking the local language will lessen the amount of jobs you can apply to, but it's still far from impossible. I came here without speaking any German, my job was all in English. Now I've been here for a few years and speak the language, but my working language is still English.

It does help to speak the local language though. When I was looking for another job after the first one went to hell, there were lots of advertised positions that I was otherwise perfectly qualified for but couldn't apply for because I couldn't work 100% fluently in German.

>>474590
I agree with you. I'm amazed by some of the American salaries I hear on here.

Ordinary jobs paying like 60k USD.

Americans are vastly overpaid.

>>478257
I see, thanks for your answers, I know a lot of people here who go north looking for a job. Most of them work construction and why not, I mean even road cleaners earn 3 times the average wage here.

>>477129
>we were selling electricity to EU, now we buy it from germany

Well played, Germany, well played EU.

And this is how you become rich by fucking other countries economies without actually using weapons.

PEace and tolerance diversity in the EU, the best trojan horses you could ever imagine for a pacific expansion of an empire

>>475429
Did you fill out the FAFSA?

>>475637
Probably because Norway hasn't attempted to assassinate any US presidents or use WMDs on it's population.

>>474676
Fucking same for Portugal word for word. Like holy shit, that's the exact same as Portugal's curse (except for yugo).

Because Murrika is the easiest country for the median (see 50th percentile person, so billionaires won't skew things) person to earn a million.

This image is even a little skewed against Murrika, because this is pre-taxed income. Most of these other countries are taxing income at a much higher rate.

Thank you based capitalism. If only more people could into econ.

More relevant charts, though Murrika's econ freedom ranking has fallen since. Thanks Bush, thanks Obama, etc.

k, gotta actually get back to work

Move to western europe

>>474647
Cheap houses in the US are not anywhere you'd want to live if you're trying to make a large amount of money.

I live outside of DC and rent is insane, and seems to only be getting more insane. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/apa/

These aren't excessive prices for the area, the luckiest I've ever been with rent here was splitting 2100 between 4 people for a townhouse. We split based on room size, and I had a smaller one, so my rent was only like 400, but this was outside the city, and more people than the landlord wanted living there. You'd never find that kind of price without multiple roommates too.

>>475016
You just need to know where to live in the US and it's extremely safe.

>>474590
Shut the fuck up you wannabe band waggon shitlord.

USA programmers get 100k+ because:

1 - they are better

2 - they pay shitload of insurances and stuff which we get for nearly free in UE

3 - they work 60hours/week and get 3 weeks of hollydays / year

4 - you're fucking shit and don't fool yourself thinking you'll make 100k with your shitass "engineering" degree (those who graduate from this are not real engineers, because EU engineering definition is all about management and talking and not actually doing something useful)

Fuck you.

>>475097
Private healthcare doesn't work, sure you might get earlier treatment but the amount of people it fucks over is amazing, also the standard of care is worse despite the US spending far more (as a percentage of GDP) than other countries

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-YH203_HEALTH_G_20130723135724.jpg

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_intl_ig_rev_616.jpg?la=en

Need something explained. I hear a lot of american people talking about salaries being more than 100k/yr like it's nothing. Nothing special at least.
before taxes


T.plumber who makes 120k

fixed

>>478831

>Need something explained. I hear a lot of american people talking about salaries being more than 100k/yr like it's nothing. Nothing special at least.


before taxes


T.plumber who makes 120k

>>478638
>being this mad and self-deluded
you sure are stupid.

>>478638

1 - fuck you.

>>478823
>Private healthcare doesn't work,
French living and working in Switzerland here.
We have private healthcare in Swizerland.
It's cheaper than the french public one. Way cheaper.
We have way better coverage.

>>478638

It's more like American tech companies have incredible amounts of money, and they offer high salaries and other benefits so they can recruit the best people for the job.

Microsoft had about 20 billion dollars in revenue last year. Per FISCAL QUARTER. They are literally raking in over 80 billion dollars a year. They can easily afford to give $100k salaries to people coming in right out of college. And to get the best recruits (who could be going to Google or Facebook, for example) you have to offer high compensation.

>>478896
T'es frontalier ou t'as un appart intra Suisse ?

>>478321
>Probably because Norway hasn't attempted to assassinate any US presidents or use WMDs on it's population.

You know that those are not reasons why the US would get in a war with a country. Look at so many african countries doing this same shit and not being invaded because they either have no oil or they are already selling it to the US.

>>474608
What sort of conversion rate are you using there m8? Must be all that Fosters.

>>478998
LOL. Let's be real here, we know presidents are largely full of shit and go to war for selfish, bullshit and arbitrary reasons.

But you can't honestly believe the oil shit. That is just too hilarious. Leftist Shill/10

>>474590
first off, they don't have the social services most EU states have.

second, adjust EU to $ and it isn't as much as a gap as you're painting

>>474670
What are you? A garbage man? That's close to minimum wage for cz

>>479622
>Austria
>Australian dollar
>mfw I have no face

>>478638
how doest that cock taste?

Thank god I'm living in Germany.