/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>471656
That pic makes me giggle at all 'fathers' out there.

And to answer your question, it's called living.

how much do you think this kid cost too?>>471659

Things have different meanings and values at different time. For example, if you are thrown into a communist nation, you will not care a fuck about the cost of rising a child and may not be even aware of concept ROI, having a child can mark a potential turning point for your life and mark your existence in this world. The same thing if you are in a country having constant wars, you will only care about leaving a mark behind this world and survive, not much about money.

It's because the current era is dominated by capitalistic ideas that thinking of ROI floats around everywhere. Remember that different people live with different principles and ideas, not all for money.

>What % of children provide a positive ROI?
Very, very small. Even if a child is successful, they won't necessarily "pay you back". From a monetary point of view, having children is absurd.

>>471883
>not all for money
Where do you think you are?

Depends what you want out of life. I could travel the world and make triple my salary. Instead I would rather live comfortably with my wife and kids. To each their own

>>471891
Live in Hong Kong and work as a social worker. We care about stability of the society in the country and other issues that can worsen our society. Being rich is good but at the cost of damaging the whole country or society is completely bullshit. Sometimes I pity some of you American, who care nothing but money.

>>471656
OP is a fucking moron for lumping musicians in with idiots and retards, considering how many musicians are well-employed. If he meant shoeless hippies, he should have said so.

>>471656
Speaking of musician and other artist related jobs, if you don't know, lots of musician made famous name and bunch of money in China. Lots ot talents can be used to earn money in unexpected waste. Back in Vietnam, you may think that picking up trash may be the job for the poors but somehow, a bunch of those trash pickers have a bigger house than average programmers. Don't ask me how, even I do not know.

>>472837
The effects of greed are more pronounced in a governing body the size of a city.
The effects of greed are more diluted in a governing body the size of a continent.

>>472854
Wrong.

>>471656
You're looking at it wrong. A child isn't supposed to have a positive ROI to you. That's because you don't raise a child for him to be profitable to you personally. You raise a child to ensure that your wealth and genes get passed on. If you're good at rising one you can make sure your name will echo through time.

Basically your child should have a positive ROI to your legacy, not you.

>Then there are chances of having a fuckup, teen pregnancy, criminal, faggot, transgender
That's if you immensely fuck up while raising him. If that happens, you deserve the shit you get.

>disabled, idiot
Abortion. Or institution if you're too late.

>musician
How is this bad?

>>471656
>faggot

as a faggot I am deeply hurt. Gays can still be rich and successful, if you're only having kids for financial gain.

>>471656
If you ever 1, grow up. 2, find a woman who you love and who loves you and 3, have some kids you will forever wonder what it was that made you think like a dickhead that you are now.

>>472863
>you can make sure your name will echo through time.
If you think having a legacy that lasts a few hundred years, or a thousand years tops, then sure. But on a bigger scale, you are irrelevant no matter what you do, so getting a child for your "legacy" is a fucking retarded argument.

>>472879
>implying it's morally right to bring a sentient being into this world, only to watch him/her age and grow bitter/weary once they learn that life is temporary and that they don't matter on a grander scheme
>possibly see your child die before you do
No thanks, anti-natalism is the only rational position.

>>472885
>But on a bigger scale, you are irrelevant no matter what you do
On a bigger scale absolutely nothing matters, so unless you're advocating nihilism I fail to see what's your point.

Also such thinking isn't exactly pragmatic and is counter-productive so I don't even know what you're doing on /biz/ instead of /x/.

>>472886
>>implying it's morally right to bring a sentient being into this world, only to watch him/her age and grow bitter/weary once they learn that life is temporary and that they don't matter on a grander scheme
>Implying everyone is just as schizophrenic as you and will wallow in sorrow and bitterness through their whole lives
Get help.

>>471656
Children are not businesses. Children are people you brought into this world and for whom their well-being and happiness you are responsible.

Oh, but you may suffer from ASPD so that's why you might think in those terms.

As a child who was conceived as an investment, I feel deeply hurt. You know what? My parents created me with the purpose of rising me into some sort of smartass who would make a ton of money in the rat-race and pay for their retirement.

The pressure they put on me and the little care and love I received from them has grown into resentment. No matter what problems I had, the only important thing was to get the best grades, even if that meant isolating me from my friends or neglecting my health. If my grades fell slightly, I was slapped. If I fell sick, they sent me to the doctor on weekends so I didn't skip lessons. I had classes for 12 hours a day, and i was forbid from having "normal hobbies" and instead given books to read "so you can enjoy your spare time reading them". The most enjoyable family tradition I can remember was going to the supermarket and being abandoned in the book section "so I could have fun" while they bought shit.

I feel used, I feel as a tool, and that is no good, I have developed OCD, permanent anxiety, depression and a peptic ulcer from all the bullshit, stress and pressure they put unto me.

I'm not trying to whore attention, but I just want you to know that my childhood was pure shit, I have health problems and feels that will never heal. All thanks to "being an investment" (as they told me once).

That's why right now I hate my parents more than I love them.
Guess what your children will do if they ever become rich with a parent like you.

Also, faggots, transgenders, disabled, iditos and musicians are respectable people. And transgenders make a fuckton of money if they get into porn or prostitution. You are the actual scum of society.

>>472876
Being a faggot with >500,000$ in my name, I believe I'm disproving OP's point on that.

>>472946
It seems as if your parents were just shitty. It doesn't really reflect on the idea of having children in hopes of them becoming someone big.

Raising a child to become successful is more complex than just forcing him read books on how to become rich and pressurizing him into getting the perfect grades. Doing this would inevitably affect his mental well being in a negative way.

A lot of good parenting involves motivating your children into doing stuff instead of forcing. Having a healthy relationship with his peers is also important, and taking it away for no matter what goal would do more harm than good.

>Also, faggots, transgenders, disabled, iditos and musicians are respectable people. And transgenders make a fuckton of money if they get into porn or prostitution. You are the actual scum of society.
Now this is just your emotional bias talking.

Mentally challenged and disabled people are objectively worthless. Transgenders and faggots often have deep seated mental issues.

>And transgenders make a fuckton of money if they get into porn or prostitution
>implying anyone here would want his legacy be tainted by a genetic mistake making money off of peoples fetishes by selling his poophole
If we cared only about making money off our children we'd be selling their organs.

>>471656
>What % of children provide a positive ROI?

It varies by country. Pic Related.

>>472946

wow, sorry to hear that man.

>>472962
>Mentally challenged and disabled people are objectively worthless.

So you would just throw them to a fire?

>Now this is just your emotional bias talking.

Tell me why faggots, transgenders, disableds, idiots and musicians aren't worth any human respect. They are people, and they can be useful for society. Even disabled people are useful, since they often raise issues about the corruption of the system, provide benefits for the medical industry and spur research or serve to teach empathy and civism to children and/or criminals (a practice not many countries do, but many should).

>Transgenders and faggots often have deep seated mental issues.

Homosexuality may have genetic causes, and it's said to improve the chances of survival for a tribe in social species. There's a good deal of research on that.

Also, I don't see why a homosexual or a transgender can't be a productive member of society. There are many hmosexuals who have made a fuckton of money or advanced science, same goes for transgenders.

>If we cared only about making money off our children we'd be selling their organs.

Well, that's what OP is saying. In that case, children would have a pretty good ROI, right?. The words ROI and child just don't mix for me.

There's a difference between educating your children to be prepared to handle money and actually thinking about them as an investment.

>>472969
>throw them in a fire
No that's too painful and unnecessary. Just an abortion if gene analysis found them prone to such things.

>fags,
Gays are OK fags are not
>trannies
Mentally I'll
>disabled
Physically disabled OK, prosthetics are advancing quickly. Mentally no.
>idiots
Depends how stupid, we need them for menial labor until robotics advances enough
>musicians
Perfectly fine

>not thinking of the returns as your child having a successful life

>>472974
>Just an abortion if gene analysis found them prone to such things.

what about victims of accidents?

>Gays are OK fags are not

Well, I'm not getting into semantic discussions here.

>Mentally I'll

Still can be productive members of society.

>Depends how stupid, we need them for menial labor until robotics advances enough.

Here's clear you're trolling.

>Musicians-perfectly fine

If there's something we have excess of it is musicians.

>not thinking of the returns as your child having a successful life

Here I agree, if by successful life you mean being happy with your life.

>>472968
It's always cheering to hear some words of empathy. You're a good anon.

>>472946


This.

Also, what is passing on your genes, you numbnut idiots? Also, producing children is what will keep your area culturally stable.

Look at all those people who will be retiring in the next 20 years. Will they have white people caring for them? No, they will have mestizas jacking their shit when they're not looking and incompetent minorities dealing with their meds.

Even the kikes, with their love of money, lay huge emphasis on having children.

>>472969
lel, it's like all the retards saying MUH CHILD WILL BE TAUGHT MUH MAFFS MUH WESTERN CANON MUH PROGRAMMING when in reality the fun shit is where you actually learn the most.

OP has no sense of family. Family is everything. Id burn every dollar I had to keep my family. This post is just sad.

>>472969
>So you would just throw them to a fire?
No because they have sentimental value to people close to them. Throwing them in a fire would do more harm than good in the overall picture.

>Tell me why faggots, transgenders, disableds, idiots and musicians aren't worth any human respect
Firstly I said nothing negative about musicians. I guess I forgot to explicitly mention that they're not a problem.

Secondly
>aren't worth any human respect
means a fuckton of things. Care to elaborate?

For example would 'being respected as a human' entail receiving more resources than one is worth? Or would it entail channeling huge amounts of money into treatment of diseases that only a few would benefit from as opposed to solving practical issues that affect more people(ASL I'm looking at you)? Or would it entail us artificially keeping them alive? Then where do you draw the line? Should we keep all veggies alive aswell? Or all abortion leftovers?

You see the question isn't as simple as it may seem at first. There are a lot of moral implications no matter what option you choose.

>Even disabled people are useful, since they often raise issues about the corruption of the system
>corruption of the system
?

>provide benefits for the medical industry and spur research or serve to teach empathy and civism to children and/or criminals
So you have downs talking about themselves infront of a bunch of children/criminals? Or what? I don't understand.

>There are many hmosexuals who have made a fuckton of money or advanced science, same goes for transgenders.
Why do people think that pointing out the exceptions to the rule would somehow disprove it.

>The words ROI and child just don't mix for me.
As I said earlier you shouldn't treat children as an investment that will benefit you. Instead it should benefit the legacy you're leaving behind; continuing and advancing your beliefs, knowledge, accomplishments and so on. Ofcourse this reflects only my own belief system.

(cont.)

>>472969
>>473011
(cont.)

Adopting such a belief system is a decision everyone must make themselves. Some may argue that what comes after they're dead matters not (as seen ITT).

>There's a difference between educating your children to be prepared to handle money and actually thinking about them as an investment.
Those aren't the only two options, but yes agreed. There's a difference between the two.

>>472980

>what about victims of accidents?
You don't abort people after they're born, anon...

>Still can be productive members of society.
Again with the exceptions. Stop it.

>Here's clear you're trolling.
Eventhough what he said was true. If nothing else, they're valuable as the ones doing the work others would not.

>If there's something we have excess of it is musicians.
And that's why most of them fail and turn to something else. Noone's keeping them forcefully in the music industry, wasting resources on keeping them artificially popular.

The same cannot be said about mentally ill people, if you get what I'm saying.

>Here I agree, if by successful life you mean being happy with your life.
Again, lots of moral implications come with thinking happiness = success. Implications you're ignoring when adopting such simplistic ideas.

>>472949
>$500,000 is a lot of money
What's it like being a literal poorfag?

>>473004
>muh maffs
>fun stuf is bettr then yer nurd shit.

poorfags gonna poor.

>>472980
>implying stupid people have ever contributed anything to the advancement of society besides menial labor

>>473011
>aren't worth any human respect
>means a fuckton of things. Care to elaborate?

To be given the same opportunities as the rest of the society, and the opportunity to find a meaningful way to contribute to the society. I wasn't talking about welfare. The welfare question is more complicated, i was just talking about treating them as any other person.

>corruption of the system

In Europe (eurofag here), whenever the economy goes wrong and politicians rob the disabled are usually the first ones to get fucked, and they o protest and make a fuckton of noise. I'ts not the sameto see 4 hipsters protesting than to see a demonstration of peoplein wheelchairs.

>So you have downs talking about themselves infront of a bunch of children/criminals?

Nope.jpg I was talking more like making them volunteer in residences for people with alzheimer, cerebral palsy, accident victims, and so on. This type of punishments tend to wake up any dormant sense of empathy pretty much by showing you all the disgrace there is in this world, which in turn fosters rehabilitation for criminals or turns children into better citizens. Caring for accident vitcims works wonders in people who has been jailed/fined for things like overspeeding or DUI.

>Still can be productive members of society.
>Why do people think that pointing out the exceptions to the rule would somehow disprove it.
>Again with the exceptions. Stop it.

I don't think they are exceptions. Gays are in average richer than heterosexuals, for example. Also, realize that roughly 10% of men are homos, so you've probably been served/worked for a homo. It's the mechanic next door useless to society? The fact he likes cocks doesn't change the fact he can fix your car. You know, not all gays are drama queens.

>>471656
1: you need both the carrot and the stick
1a: without the stick they won't take the lesson seriously
1b: with the stick alone they will just think "X makes mom mad", not "X is wrong because Y", they will be constantly stressed all the time and become neurotic
1b: after the stick they need a cool off period and a positive stress free encounter with the parent so they can actually think about what you're telling them

2: it is much easier to give a shit, be diligent and nip small problems in the bud than allow problems to grow and become real burdens in the future

3: introduce them to sports and socialization at an early age, tiger moms are good at training violin players and math teachers but not entrepreneurs and innovators, exercise is linked to intelligence
3a: this is related to 2, if a child learns how to be social when they are 4/5/6 years old then they will continue to learn and grow along with the other children, you won't have to constantly arrange play dates or deal with some awkward teenager later on

4: monitor their education, again this is related to 2, if you normalize looking through their school books and "homework time" after school then they won't shirk later
4a: also related to 3, the earlier you start doing this the better, persistence is important to, after introducing them to school life you will mostly just need to monitor them so it shouldn't be an ordeal

5: teenage years are the most crucial and the most difficult, they will dislike being treated the same way you treated them as a child
5a: you should change with them, monitor their school work and social progress in a different way,
5b: you need to expose them to practical things in the adult world, how to get a driver's license and bank account, what the shills don't tell them about college and careers
5c: teach them they don't need to obsess over girls/boys, popularity, they shouldn't try too hard to be fashionable and waste their money on fads, it really doesn't matter

>>471656
5c continued: inform them drugs and alcohol have an effect on their brain while it is still developing, you might smoke a bit of weed in the future but if you ever shoot up heroin you're fucking stupid, inform them that loud music causes tinnitus, tell them these are just facts, not something only old moralist fuddy duddies believe

6: have an "you're 18 and you're out the door" mentality, of course they would never be out on the streets but by the time they are 18 they ought to have had at least a part time job, have some money in their bank account, know how to drive, ideally trying to get into a good college
6a: does this seem like hassle too you? go back to 2, this would actually be easy if you raised them right so they do most of the work themselves

7: maintain the family loyalty, like Tywin Lannister or some shit

>>473049
>implying menial labor is not a necessary and often big part of maintaining a society.

>implying dumb people haven't done discoveries, even if it was by chance

>implying implying implying

>implying dumb people isn't necessary to feed the armies and police depts of the developed world.

Nigga you're so dumb you can't see which social class you are part of.

>>472946
hey sorry to hear that

i was a bargaining chip- my mom wanted to trap my dad with parenthood so he'd stay with her.

too bad shes a crazy hoe and he was like fuck all that shit and left. when he left, she needed her fam's $ to get thru college so she kept me (she'd claimed she didnt believe in abortion and would get disowned if she got rid of me)

so i was psychologically tortured until I was 19 and realized how fucking crazy she is.

after walking out of that, i can totally relate to your being abused and am so sorry you had to go thru that. you can totally heal your feels, i promise you. i believe that everyone who has a past like ours is able to heal- and there are a lot of resources on the internet/IRL to help you. talk therapy is good depending on who you get but the real change comes from self-therapy where you validate your own feels, change your emotions, thought and behaviors.

good luck man

>>473021
I could stop working tomorrow, and I'd still get a good monthly cash flow from dividends, coupons, etc.
So, not a poorfag.

>>473069
>To be given the same opportunities as the rest of the society
Equality is an illusion. There is no such thing.

>and the opportunity to find a meaningful way to contribute to the society
So they inherently deserve more than most people ever get just because they're retarded?

>i was just talking about treating them as any other person.
So ignoring their illnesses and treating them as if they were a normal human being?

>In Europe (eurofag here), whenever the economy goes wrong and politicians rob the disabled are usually the first ones to get fucked, and they o protest and make a fuckton of noise
Oh so they're loudmouthed if their own rights to receive aid are infringed upon? So they're just like everyone else? Hence making your argument invalid?

>Nope.jpg I was talking more like making them volunteer in residences for people with alzheimer, cerebral palsy, accident victims, and so on. [post too long so deleted this useless bulllshit] in people who has been jailed/fined for things like overspeeding or DUI.
[citation needed]

Also, personally speaking, I'd be grossed out by a literally drooling retard instead of feeling compassionate towards it. It sure as shit wouldn't be enough to divert me from my beliefs.

>Gays are in average richer than heterosexuals, for example
lol go fuck yourself

Two gay men will generally earn more than a heterosexual couple. It's common sense. Also:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-francisco-maulbeck/no-lgbt-people-are-not-ri_b_3322306.html

>You know, not all gays are drama queens.
Yet the suicide rates amongst the LGBT community is higher than that in the general population, proving that being a tranny, trap, or a degenerate in general stems from mental problems. This is not to say that all homosexuals are unstable.

>>471656
>That pic
LOL

>>473132

Those feels bro.

The only good part I se to all this shit is that we somehow are emotionally harder than the average faggot.

>>473154

Just shut the fuck up and stop deluding yourself into thinking that you are the tough guy of the internet.

If you volunteered at a center for disabled your heart would break in the first fucking hour. And several more times after you heard the stories of the people there.

If you didn't, then you should go back to the cave you came from, people like you are making the world a worse place for everyone. I hope you never have any position of power. Seriously. You would only fuck up the neocon way and still justify yourself because you are just that retarded.

You're either a boomer or an angsty teen. Whatever, maybe some day you'll grow up and realize what humanity is and what a fucing den we're living in and how your shit is just piling over the suffering of others. Maybe someday you'll have a son who will turn into a lady, or somebody you know will get disabled, or you'll just get old and shit on your pants without even realizing it because you won't be even conscious of your existence. Then you'll fucking learn what love means, instead of thinking with your retarded, old-fashioned values. Money is important, but it's not everything, idiot, and this thread is about it.

>>473664

Gonna tell this to every asshole I meet from now on.

>>473190
indeed lol