/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>462662
I have a good amount of physical silver and gold (about 20% of my portfolio atm) and a more modest amount of heavily leveraged (x14,8) paper with a stoploss at the strong +-18.7 resistance level to hopefully profit from the next upwards move to like 22-23.

I'll only sell the physical silver if we get back to the levels from a few years ago as in 45+

>tfw you bought 200oz of silver back in 2011 and it was $35 and ounce or some shit

I was reading too many /pol/ happening threads. I still have all the silver may as well save it in case shit really does hit the fan

The support level at $20 worries me. Where does it arise? Is it mental, or actual support from mining costs etc.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121397775892

Good one to buy?

I got a $5 coupon it expires tomorrow. Thanks

>>462668
That's the 18.7 support level. I honestly think it currently has to do more with it's relation to gold right now as with the current ratio that value equates to +- gold being at the price of production.

Silver is a buy so long as you are willing to wait 5-10 years for your profit. Which isn't a big deal if you don't trust the government in the short term.

I would still hedge with gold over the same time period though. Unless someone here thinks that there is a short term indicator which is a buy?

Personally I think we are in for some more pain in the short term. Banks need to punish PMs because they are still pushing the 'recovery'.

>>462681
I don't think gold/silver prices can be artificially held down for much longer. The fixing has broken down with banks leaving. Governments can only dump massive volumes for a finite amount of time before they run out of steam.

Right now you always see gold steadily creeping up for a while until you go solidly over $1300. Then the next day there's a 500+ million dump (which makes no sense as no sane investor would sell in such a big block at once since it gives you a shit price).

>>462688
US has all the gold, how can anyone else do anything other than go along with their messed up schemes?

I am down for a collapse at some point in our lifetimes but this year...? I just don't see it, I feel like the usd just isn't weak enough to be taken over by something like BRICS. There could be an incident of some kind which would weaken the dollar but... that is a hypothetical. And the reason I own PMs.

Banks have infinite paper gold and silver to dump, why would they let their golden goose die?

>>462666

I get it, you feel like you "lost" because the physical commodity you have is less greenbacks than when you bought it.

What you have to realize is, while paper money + digital 0s & 1s can dissapear overnight into nothing, you will still be holding something that has a much, much longer history as money than the green piece of paper, on top of that is has many other applications ( silverware, jewelry, healthcare applications, warding off evil spirits/ werewolf/vampire killer )

You lose nothing by holding physical silver. Do not be one of these guys who panics and sells all his silver at loss, then you really are an idiot.

>>462666
You botched it, but selling now would be extremely dumb.

The only thing to do is: hold for a very long time.

>>462873
Silver isn't money, it's a commodity that has use as a store of value (it lacks other requirements to be considered money in the modern age).

>you lose nothing by holding physical silver
You do if its value goes down. There's also the opportunity cost to consider (money going into silver could be going into a more productive asset).

Precious metals can be a useful way of diversifying your portfolio (low correlation with other asset classes), but make sure you don't go too heavy (also keep in mind that gold and silver have a very high correlation).

>>462882
Yes, having more than 7-8% of your assets in precious metals is full retard.

I like to hold 5% in gold and nothing in silver due to VAT.

For other "secure" investments, you have real estate, artworks and all kinds of collectibles (rare original books, old racing cars, etc.).

>>462888
>VAT
Ouch. Fortunately there is no VAT or sales tax on gold or silver where I live.

>>462693
The USA does not have "all the gold". The US vaults are pretty much empty (there's been a fuckton of news about this, why do you think Germany can't manage to repatriate its meager 65 tons?).

All the USA can do now is print more money and short sell paper gold or paper silver (which they seem to like a lot).

The USD won't be completely taken over by the new deals made between the BRICS recently but it is the start of something. Over the next decades, while still officially the world's reserve currency, there will be more and more trading in other currencies.

Banks and governments can in theory dump as much silver and gold paper as they want but at some point this will create a fissure between the paper and physical prices, especially now when we're so close to production price.

They're skating on thin ice here.

>>462882
By the way just as information,there's now a few banks/institutions (south african I thought) that pay you an interest for storing your gold at their vaults. This literally means that your gold now yields a dividend (for the first time in history).

>>462888
>>462890

You can dodge VAT on silver by getting your hands on the Andorra stamped bars which are counted as official currency and are thus free of VAT.

>>462888
Saying that it's "full retard" is a bridge too far in my opinion. You're also pulling that number randomly out of thin air. Reading your own reply you'd have 10% in gold/silver in case you knew how to dodge VAT on silver.

I'm this heavy on gold and silver right now because I trade quite actively and seeing it from a both fundamental and technical way both gold and silver are a massive buy right now.

>>462662
>still betting on government bankruptcy and hyperinflation 6 years after the crunch

>>462937
Those diner-based coins look somewhat dodgy at first sight, but I will investigate since I'm living near the border of Andorra...

>>462940
I'd have 5% in various precious metals if VAT didn't exist for silver.

The limit of 7-8% for precious metals is advised by many specialists if you hold them as a security asset, and not for daily trading.

>>462888
I've also been highly leveraged (and still, but smaller position down to 1.25) EUR/USD since it was 1,40 which accounted to 10% of my portfolio. Might be "full retard", but sometimes if you do the homework and take some risk it pays off.

I understand people can have the stategy of focussing on index trackers and funds of funds and stuff like that and it'll get you a decent return on the long run but if you really like spending your time on doing research and picking your own financial products you won't go for a passive strategy like that.

>>462946
Then I apologise and can mostly agree with you.
If you want the physical for the long run in case of IMPENDING DOOM then I guess it's a reasonable % to focus on.

>>462971
If you have tips on active trading with precious metals, I'd gladly listen!

I agree with you that risking 10% of your portfolio on a single asset when trading actively is quite bold, but not retarded if you know what you do.

>that bell-like ring of a pure silver coin

>>462666
When "the happening" or whatever you faggots call it now happens (hint: it won't) nobody is going to give a shit about your silver and gold. They're going to care about food, water and that's it. Silver and gold may come into play 10-15 years after "the happening", but let's face it...none of you faggots are going to survive that long anyhow.

>>462662
>paper silver

you dont own it if you dont hold it. buy the physical.

>>462943

implying the real crunch has even happened yet

>ISHYDDT

>buying paper silver or gold
>not realizing that those market prices have no direct relation to silver and only exist to subsidize big time silver speculators manipulating the paper markets

How do you not know this? Weren't you paying attention to what happened with gold a while back?

>>463022
>They're going to care about food, water and that's it
Invest in Nestlé stocks then?

Gold and silver held high value, and were commonly used for business, even at the worst times of human history, and in places where money didn't even exist. It is not a dumb investment.

Also, "the happening" can very well happen in most countries that are not the United States; it can also happen in the first world, on a personal scale, if your bank collapses, if your other assets are seized by a court, etc.

>>462662
If you're not buying at $5/oz, you're losing your money

>>463022

Clearly you should already have guns, ammo, food, water, and other basic necessities already prepared ( remember guys, FEMA & DHS recommend you keep a 72 hour supply of goods for your household )

The silver and gold you are holding is going to let you do things like relocate to a more stable region and convert your PM into local currency for buying land, home, vehicles, goods, etc....

2 million in ETFs is gonna mean jack when you show up to a string of small city-states that do not have access to internet/stock market information or the institution to convert those "digital assets" into actual money.

But guess what they will take? That is correct, silver and gold coins :)

It has historically been the universal language for most of the humans on this planet for 10K+ years

Don't fool yourself into thinking it is impossible to revert to that sort of state again, humanity has been there before and it will be there again.

>>463038
Buying real estate on different continents is also a nice thing to do for security. Say: a flat in Switzerland, land in Argentina, an island in Japan...

If you have several millions, it is mandatory.

>mfw islands in Japan are surprisingly cheap: http://www.japantoday.com/category/lifestyle/view/5-uninhabited-japanese-islands-you-can-buy-right-now

>>463034
> Implying the world population hasn't doubled and the number of applications after the tech boom hasn't skyrocketed the last 40 years

>>462943
> Still believe the economy is more or less fixed even though billions of free money are handed out monthly 6 years after the crunch
> Still believes that the US of A and eurozone can handle a new rescission while still IN the previous one.

this thread is gewd.
but fuck gold, never liked this metal


silver is best when there is a change of gold price, some other precious metals can be good too
gold:silver ratio is key.

the amount of gold common folk can get their hands on is ridiculously small, same as diamonds I guess.
silver plated national currency is kewl for small countries.

Arts and paintings are only "valid" after a crisis.
land/apartments are always best.

>>463025
>>463062
We are in an old bull market and the gubmint has been throwing money at the problem for quite a while now. However I'm going to wait for the cracks to show before I conclude the market has changed.

>>462936

Hate to break it to you, but that's because they're doing a little thing called "fractional reserve banking" with your gold and lending it out at interest.

Of course, people have been doing that since, oh, 3000 BC or so, but goldbug freak out when you tell them that.

>>463070
You're an ugly worthless faggot who should take his silver and shove it up his ass. Learn to type properly instead of OMG KEWL EPIC MAYMAY.

Take that shit back to /a

>>463314
You're a big guy.

>>463134
Hate to break it to you but whether or not they lend out the gold does not matter in my argument. The USA also lended out Germany's gold but Germany doesn't get any form of interest.

One of the big arguments against gold has always been that it doesn't yield any interests or dividends. For the first time in history, it now does in certain scenarios. That's all I was saying.

>>463134
To make it more clear:

If you want to store your gold abroad right now like in London or Zurich vaults you pay them money to store it. This new alternative actually pays YOU money to store your gold with them.

Both of these institutions will lend out your gold to others, there's no way around it, so it doesn't matter in the comparison.

At work I get paid by the hour and whatever tips people feel like throwing at me.

My hourly covers all my bills. Is it better for me to hang onto my paper bills or to turn it into silver doubloons for pirates to steal?

Ordered 10 austrian 1oz philharmoniker and 5 american eagles. Price is around 24€ per coin. I bought them as a future gift for my family and friends.

aren't you guy's worried about the eventual process of mining asteroids
the amount of gold and silver on one of those could make everything on earth look tiny

>>463986
Cost effective asteroid mining is still far off.

>>462662
Just a small amount. About 8% of my portfolio is physical silver bullion, acquired at average price per ounce of $17.66. No real good reason I have this position, other than why not.

One note though: A lot of places will try to sell you silver for a price close to bullion but as some collectible coin or some shit. Remember that none of that matters. In fact, special silver pieces like that are even more of a pain in the ass to move in the market because they're irregular. Avoid them; they'll just slow you down.

>>463986
No.

>>463986
Won't happen in the near future. While it may be technically possible this doesn't mean it's actually profitable too.