/biz/ - Business & Finance

why would I?

I double report just to make sure

Sorry, not withdrawing, friend!

>>4511676
But Lauren I'm not American

>>4511676
Bad music.

>>4511676
moving out of this shithole (US) after graduation; if I'm going to pay taxes when I decide to cash out, i'm making sure it's going to my true homeland

>>4511676
i'll just give lauren all of my money

>>4511759
no bully

LP 3 soon

>>4511676
>cashing out

Nope because you don't have to regardless of what overly paranoid nerds say
IRS refuses to clarify so it's safe assume that gains should only be logged when moving in and out of fiat

>>4511937
some cpa guy says its like 15% capitals gains on /r/bitcoin

>>4511676

Jokes on you, IRS, I'm a Linkmarine. You gonna reimburse me for a % of my losses?

Not an American but isn't it enough to just declare total profit without going in on each trade? Also losses are not tax deductible where I'm from.

>>4512053
why the fuck would a loss be taxible lmao america doesnt do that

>>4511937
Wishful thinking wont help you, the rules are clear when exchanging capital assets for other capital assets, you owe 40% of the gains realized at the point of trade. If you enter the market and exit in one fiscal year, then that is easy, 40% of gains. If you bought one coin with the gains from another, and didn't sell to fiat, you STILL owe the 40% and the IRS doesn't accept bitcoin.

>>4512069
Please note: tax deductible

>>4511676

Did you know we have machines called "computers" that can do tedious calculations, and records for us?

It's ironic how this board is all about advanced computerized blockchain technology yet everyday there's a thread like this where people can't grasp how to do simple arithmetic, or how to hire a CPA.

>>4512098
Clam down. You don't owe 40%. You do owe after you run your trades through a spreadsheet program to determine your net gains.

These charts will tell you what you owe if you have net gains for the years.

You may owe nothing depending on your income. You have to add your short term gains to your income to determine your net income for tax purposes.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/03/21/short-term-capital-gains-tax-rates-in-2017.aspx

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

UNCLE SAM WANTS HIS CUT

>>4511676
yes, if you are a cuck

>>4512170
Interesting. Had no clue the % was tied to income. My point was individual trades are taxable events.

>>4512098
So if the irs doesn't accept bitcoin you don't have to give them anything :^)

what happens if someone throws their private keys away and you have no other seizable assets?

>>4512344
if they can prove you owe taxes you can face jail if you dont pay

>>4511989
Either you calculate once when you cash out everything to fiat, or you calculate on each token transfer. You can't mix the two and both methods use regular income tax rates unless you've been holding a single investment for over 6 months.

Definitely don't listen to this guy

>>4512098

I don't know where the fuck he's from that he's paying 40% taxes on gains. You pay according to regular federal income tax rate + your state income tax unless your state is red pilled and doesn't take income tax

>>4512344
doesn't matter cuck, the IRS will come knocking on your door and you better pull up your bootstraps and pay your compounding debt

>>4511754
It dosent matter if you withdraw or not senpai.

Every transaction has to be counted as short term capital gains unless you wait a year between each move.

>>4512374
um sorry i didn't mean myself personally i was just worried what would happen if someone burned my house down or just took my stuff.

>need to pay taxes on every shitcoin to shitcoin
>need to pay taxes on short term gains
>have no fiat to pay government so cash out shitcoins
>cashing out is also a taxable event
land of the free they said

>>4511676
who gives a shit, nobody on this board is making enough for the IRS to give a shit anyway.

>>4512372
>Either you calculate once when you cash out everything to fiat

This seems the most logical thing a Tax Authority can do. What are you going to buy with 1 Digibyte? Will they measure every trade in fiat and not satoshi's?We do not get the privileged of using tax deferred/free investment accounts, so I think the TA's are cautious of implementing wholesale tax regulation.

BTW, the SEC, IRS and FINRA are in the regulation business, and they have fresh meat

Im making to many gains to keep track off ill just let it ride the chad way

>>4512291
Yes for short term gains you add your net realized gains to your personal net income. I am not happy about it,but I don't want to pay penalties and interest when they decide to come after everyone.

>>4511676
>atomic swap into another blockchain without leaving any footprint
>claim it got stolen

>>4512474
This.
And if you do make it just hire a tax attorney.

>>4512513
i duno if that feature is available yet

>>4511676
Like Hillary said, you have to have both public and private positions.

>>4512496
Do you understand that when you cash out any crypto it is information that the IRS will have access to. They can go back for ten years. You could have to pay a penalty, taxes and interest on the taxes you owe. If they decide you evaded on purpose you will go to prison.

Remember they come after you for up ten years after you decided you don't owe taxes. Don't be stupid and think that there won't be tax laws that will be retro-active regarding the requirements to report crypto gains. Why do you think that Bittrex is requiring enhanced verification??

REMEMBB

All my coin were lost in a "hack"

Also I plan to move to Hong Kong after I made my first $5 million

>>4512513
you retards are hilarious

>>4511676
>he cashes out into a bank linked to his person and not one linked to an offshore llc controlled by another offshore llc itself in a cook island trust
lmaoing at your life right now

Why can't I just buy gold locally and sell it for cash later?

>>4512360
>>4512581
ok where did this meme come from? does anyone actually know of anyone who was put in prison or even got anything more than a letter in the mail for some missing taxes?

thanks for the replies everyone, I was sure a passive aggressive statement would bring in more people.
anyone have any good read ups on how to go about calculating everything without relying on a third party?

>>4511676

What do I report if I lost 3 BTC (100%) this tax year?

>>4511676

>ODN
>Link

Sold at loss, threw everything into Confido and went on vacation. I came back and I can't even sell.

I can't even afford a pistol to kill myself with.

>>4513010
I think you can claim them as stolen

>>4512813
because the place you sell it to will ask for all of your identifying information before buying it from you. You will have to report your gains on the gold.

>>4513058
....Or I can post an ad on craigslist?

>>4513010

You get a great deductible.

No. I will keep everything. Fuck the clammy hands of the taxman, kiss my ass nigga.

>>4512876

It is called tax evasion. You purposely avoid paying taxes. You didn't just forget or mess up, you tried to hide the fact that you had realized gains and didn't report them. This could be a number of ways, but it is tax evasion if you knowingly hide money so it is not taxed.

>>4511676

I havent done my taxes in 12 years, Fucking shit not about to start now. What are they gonna do? Garnish my XMR withdraws?! Hahaha

>>4513032
You can offset your income tax by a maximum of $3000 a year with net losses.

>>4512474
I made six figures this year from crypto, I know other people on here that made seven.

>>4513072
And sell it to an undercover agent looking for people who are money laundering.

>>4513156
Dumb cunt

>>4513134
Me too..I am going to owe, but I will pay. Now I can convert that money to fiat any time and not have to pay again.

>>4511676
Stuff like this, and how they are trying to ban us from doing stuff with our own money, and how american citizenship is basically like having the curse of Leprosy around the world, etc, makes me actually consider doing something I used to think was too crazy like moving to a country that's not over it's head in debt and becoming a citizen there and dumping burger citizenship. just from watching the whole years state legislatures battle eachother over raising taxes because the state's massive budget deficit. And this is like a prequel of more to come that the local, state, and fed governments are way over their heads in debt and are going to shake down everyone they can for as much as they can and it's only going to get worse.

>>4513163
Go for it. I don't care. You have to be a special kind of stupid to think those sites aren't monitored constantly.

>>4513209
Yes, every person that will sell you gold for bitcoin is a LEO

You're the special kind of stupid

>>4513230
Not every person. Just takes one time. Not LEO. Agent. Watching you right now.

>>4513243
I already know I'm being fucking watched and don't really give a fuck.

I want to turn my crypto into a physical business so I can give people jobs and give more taxes on a regular basis.

I'm a good goy, and they know it.

>>4511676
I nonironically will when I cash out

>>4513296
Great. Pay taxes on your gains then open your business and all is well.

>>4513316
When I turn it into USD, sure...

>>4512704
I'm thinking of actually setting up a cook island trust, you know, to protect my assets from any gold-digging harlots who may come for my fortune

>>4511759

Shit taste detected. I bet you also lost money on Link.

>>4513324
Do you understand that you have to complete Form 8949 when you do this? That form will require information about the date of your trades. You can attach a spreadsheet, but if you show that the trades were made in a previous year, you will be required to amend or file returns from previous years. If you owed tax from those previous years you will have to pay a penalty and possibly fines. You can't report gains without completing that form. The form covers only the year you are filing taxes for.

How would I, if at all, calculate the gains from trading Ethereum into Link, that's it. No cashing out, no Bitcoin, just an Ethereum to Link trade. Do I pay a percentage on the amount I "gained" when I compare my dollar amount to the dollar worth of the Link when I traded it, or is it something else?

>>4513406
hmmm but I traded my currency for crypto..

Each trade I made in crypto was for another crypto. They aren't real currencies after all.

>>4513417
i'm not cashing out until they clearly define everything, so, i feel good about it

>>4513406
Also, my gains have no real dollar value, as I have NOT turned those gains into USD.

They are still within a computer somewhere, and technically not worth anything.

>>4511676
>A bunch of bureaucrat faggots think they're entitled to my hard earned money

the crypto standard can't come soon enough
fuck fiat. fuck politicians, fuck public sector employees, and fuck welfare scum

>>4513406
one last thing... The government cannot force me to pull out of my positions in order to pay them if I haven't yet pulled out of said positions.

>>4513496
this.

>>4513446
If you want to attempt to use like kind exchanges then you need to do an 8842 for every one of those trades for the tax year that you did them in. Note that the IRS will probably reject this and make you pay as if you'd cashed out and then bought crypto with fiat.

>>4513417
It is on realized gains. Did you have gains on the ETH before you traded for LINK? If so you need to report that even if you haven't traded out of LINK yet. Yes it is calculated in $US. Look up the price of LINK when you bought it and the price of ETH when bought the LINK. The difference is a gain or loss and it is "realized".

If you have a loss on LINK, you might want to sell enough of it by December 31st to offset any gains on your ETH.

If you have gains on LINK and you haven't traded out of yet, you don't owe taxes on the LINK until you do. Remember REALIZED gains and losses. If you are still holding the property (in this case an individual crypto) there are no realized gains or losses.

>>4513446
Tell that to the IRS when you cash out into fiat. The IRS considers crypto to be property like stocks, art, antiques, etc.

>>4513573
>8842
Meant 8824.

>>4513494
When you do you have to file form 8949 that tells the dates of your trades. If they are from previous years, you will have to amend or file taxes for those years and you will owe interest and penalties. Good luck.

>admitting tax evasion on a public forum

You future expats are gonna get hosed so hard once the entitlement programs start drying up and petitions need to be paid out.

>>4511676
No, and no one else is either

>>4513650
*I have identified another one.

>>4513578
thank you.

>>4513824
You're welcome.

>>4512876
Irwin Allen Schiff is also another famous one, got 13 years for not paying.

>>4513578
Also, so if I bought Eth, waited for it to be worth less than what I bought it for, and then buy Link, would that mean I have no gains and no taxes to file?

I have no idea how to do my taxes this year. Pretty sure my taxman doesn't either.

Wish I could give him something to read.

What do currency traders do? Like ones who buy euros betting it gains strength on the dollar and vice versa?

nope.

they can go and get fucked.

i've already bought gold bullion with bitcoin, and sold it two years ago for CASH, all tax free.

>>4513914

2 years ago? wtf.. i meant 1 week ago

Had nothing but loss this year soooo

>>4513103

thanks for the heads up, schlomo shekelstein

>>4513879
Yes. Then you would have a realized loss. If you have earned income you can deduct up to $3000 of realized losses per year from your income.

Example:
Bought ETH for $285
Sold ETH for $225 to buy LINK
Realized loss is $60 that you can deduct from taxes you owe. You are not required to report a loss if you aren't going to take the deduction.

>if I sell but keep my fiat on an exchange, does that count , or only if i return the money to my bank account?

>>4514113
correcting my terminology

Bought ETH with fiat for $285
Traded ETH for LINK when ETH's fiat value was $225
Realized loss is $60

>>4514113
Thanks for the clarification, really appreciate the surprisingly friendly help, I don't have anymore questions so I guess I'll be on my way, but regardless have a good one.

>>4512560
Also make sure to use the classic Hillary defense: "What? I don't know? Was that bad? Everybody else does it tho? I'm a girl btw?",

>>4514181

It doesn't matter where you keep it, you sold or traded so you have either a realized gain or loss.

>>4514199
Happy to help. I am not a professional tax advisor so please consult a professional. I do know how taxes work with stocks and since crypto is considered real property like stock, I understand how it should be reported.

>>4514237
Thanks makes sense

>>4512402
Sorry I lost my Btc after I converted to monero

>>4514328
No problem.

Best of luck to all. I agree that the classification of crypto as real property is ridiculous, but at this point in time that is the way it is.

He's making a list, checking it twice

Is there insider trading laws in crypto?

/Hypothetically/... if the director of a crypto personally tells me information of a major release and I invest, is it legal?

If I get a answer and trips ill help all of you triple your money.

I've made like 100k trades in 6 months. You think the IRS, with their recent budget cuts can look into mine and all. The other burgers trades? Nope, fuck them.

Also, good luck finding me. I'm off the grid.

>>4514444
Quads confirm taxman has /biz/ on it's shitlist.

>>4514455

he posted, from an internet connection registered in his name

>>4514453
Nope. No regulation on crypto at this time. He can tell you anything and you can profit. Wanna be friends? ;-)

my initial capital investment was $500 now i have millions in crypto. based on long term capital gains (i invested in crypto in 2013) then i will pay only like 15% if i cash out. feels comfy

>>4514444
>>4514512
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice.
The IRS is coming to town

>>4515485
Nope counts as personal income
+15% for long term gains only if you never touched those coins
+30% for income tax.

You got just'd

>>4513602
>when you cash out into fiat.
So... Exactly what I said before. Taxgoy can't make me pay taxes on something that hasn't become fiat. The IRS enforces the fiat tax system. Their domain is in all things fiat. If I am outside of fiat, then they do not have the right to ask for taxes on it.

And yes, I would argue this in court. Which, I wont have to because I will be forthright with all my fiat dealings.

>>4513624
When I do... Doesn't stop me from going to say Israel and trading for shekels

>>4513296
Best goy. Pedro needs healthcare for his 17 kids.

>>4515776
see
>>4515763

>>4515763
No you are wrong, but I don't care. do whatever you want to. When you do cash out you have to report where that money came from. You have fill out a form showing your trades, just like stocks. If those trades were in a previous year you have to amend those returns.

>>4511676

>reporting my gains

>gains

>>4515877
>When you do cash out

You keep saying that as if it's expected that I'm going to cash out.

I could literally go to Israel and put it all there. Maybe I'll take a 99 year lease on a pistachio orchard. What then of your precious forms?

The US government is so unkind and unforgiving with people who actually make money, it's no wonder that people move their money elsewhere.

>>4515924
I agree that it is ridiculous. Just telling you what is required with current tax status of crypto.

Don't shoot the messenger. If you aren't going to cash out. Why are you in this thread?

>>4515763

You can buy silver and gold from sites that take BTC as payment. Buy in amounts less than $10,000 so it doesn't have to be reported. Buy from 2 sites simultaneously, like JM Bullion and Provident, and you can cash out almost $20,000 at a time as long as your purchases are not in too close a proximity to each other from the same seller.

>>4515955
Not trying to shoot the messenger, but you literally sound like an IRS agent.

I'm here to give people ideas as to what they could do OTHER than cashing out.

>>4515959
Why would sub 10k not have to be reported? Either way, I was reading JM's website and they said "unfortunately" all your personal information is still gathered

>>4515991
I am giving people the information that is required to file taxes on crypto gains so they don't come after all of us in five years and add penalties and interest to what we owe.

Not everyone can move to Israel and buy a pistachio orchard. Most people just need to know what to do so the IRS doesn't fuck them over in the future.

I know this happens. I had a good friend who was day trading stocks. He didn't keep track of his cost basis. The company he traded through sent the IRS the trading information. He figured he would just put it off and pay it in a year or two even with interest. Anyway, the company he traded through went out of business and he didn't have his cost basis. They considered his cost basis to be zero on every trade and he had to settle and is paying them for the rest of his life.

I don't work for the IRS, but I want to know what I have to do so they don't come after me after the fact.