/biz/ - Business & Finance

http://bitcoinandtheblockchain.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-flippening-btc-to-bch-last-mile.html

Steady decline, but it will find a higher base. Will get pumped again eventually. Repeat until flippening.

I feel like 50/50 it's just going to die or it's going to steal all of BTC's mining power and just kill BTC completely.

>>4365811
>...Elliot wave theory, predicts a third wave peak at $3300 and a fifth wave peak at $4500.
>Taken with what we know, in 4 days Segwit2X activates and Bitpico may start mining the chain.
>This may be the third wave pushing BCH price to $3300 close to 1.0 BTC (50% BTC market cap).
>This will panic hard core holders to defend BTC by pushing up BTC price and selling down BCH.
>That will be the expected Elliot wave correction leading into the 5 wave push to $4500 or about 1.25 BTC.

>If this happens it is game over for BTC.

I think the first pump was just a test and couldn't possibly have been normal Korean investors, the volumes are just too high. It had to be the miners which have been using Korean exchanges. Bithumb crashed or was ddosed or we might have a very different picture right now. The test showed that the market is soft as fuck and willing to FOMO almost instantly if they see BTC drop and BCH rise.

I'd say they try again very soon once the BCH difficulty algorithm stabilizes. Roger still hasn't used any of that 45k of BTC he transferred as far as I know.

>>4365819
Don't think BCH can ever fully die. BTC is offchain scaling, BCH is onchain.

>>4365847
Actually yeah you're right.
If it doesn't flip it's probably just going to cruise along like LTC. It's always going to have some sort of following

someone found a way to attack bitcoin. take a look for yourself
jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#30d
basically unless they fix this fast BCH will take over

>>4365792
It's about to rise soon take a look at the charts

>>4365891
You're the first shill to show up. Get the fuck out of my thread. We're having a serious discussion here.

>>4365879
ooh pretty colors

Oh and I should add that if the difficulty hadn't adjusted back at almost the worst time, BCH pump might have stuck. But it isn't like it has dumped it is still at the all time high price from just 2-3 days ago.

>>4365811
But X2 was cancelled

>>4365879
But it looks like the issue is solving itself no? The peak seems to have been over the weekend. Do you really expect them to try it again?

>>4365842
first pump is to put the floor higher

My guess is the it will bleed slowly for about a week. In that time Bitcoin will rise and everything will seem fine. This is good too if you want to eventually dump expensive bitcoin for cheap BCH. I think support around 1000 is when I will look to get back in and the difficulty adjustment stabilizes. Hopefully btc is at 8000 as well so they can fomo bch even higher.

This is a chess game

Can someone do the math and tell me how much the price would move on say bitfinex if Roger dropped the whole 25k BTC he transferred there? That's 162 million dollars or so. I read somewhere else it would take it to $10 or so. Does that sound plausible? What would happen if he did that? Pure pandemonium? Or would it just correct up again rapidly?

if Bithumb didn't crash that night, BCH might have landed the killing blow right then and there. it blew past .5 on finex right before the Koreans shit the bed. this tells me that there is significant strength backing BCH and they're going to inevitably try again, and from an even better position now that the upgrade was successfully activated

I'm so proud of you /biz. I was starting to think /biz only had shill, larp, or wojack threads. Having a serious discussion brings tears to my eyes.

I too think that the last weapons aren't fired yet. Only thing which scares me is that we discuss about Cash's weapons but don't know about core`s ones, besides selling

>>4365995
That's why whales don't dump all at once. They have to accumulate gradually. Why do you think BCC keeps getting bought around 0.18 right now?

>>4365950
I'm unsure on the technical details of how this happened, but if it was someone with malicious intent it certainly could be done again.
the fact that someone can clog up bitcoins transactions for days is pretty scary

>>4366052
Yeah you have to take into account that they have elite backers and probably hackers that can attack as we already saw. Also, if they announce bigger blocks like 2mb or lightning network, this could change.

>>4366081
But doesn't BTC also have their own elite backing their own horse?

>>4365792
a shitcoin like all others. claiming "it's faster" have been used for 3 years now for shitcoins, that's not a winning argument certainly. nobody gives a shit, btc is fast enough already and will be even faster.

there is no way any of these shitcoins overcome the one and only btc

>>4365792
Read this for an Oracle's take on how this will transpire -- note the date this was posted (July 30th):
https://pastebin.com/n0aGBMQr

cash gonna destroy core
I own none of them.

already dropped those bags on newfags(BTC at 7300,BCH 2000), you gonna get destroyed if you bought any BTC above 4k$

I own none because my secret shitcoin is gonna moon X100 so I don't give a shit about X4 from the flippering

screencap this

>>4365995
Looking at the current orderbook on bitfinex it would bring the price up to 2250

>>4366091
There are about 820k BCH ready to be fired upon exchanges and to be dumped at once. If you know the right .onion you'd know that. There are some very rich people with over 50k btc and they won't let Bitcoin die.

I guess the btc guys know it too, the 10k btc buywall at .1 isn't there anymore, they know they'll get eaten alive

>>4366121
Get the fuck out of my thread. Serious discussions only.

BCH won't be king until it has their own trade pairs.

>>4366052

Core can't do anything except hardfork POW to save themselves, this will alienate their miners and hasten BTCs death unless they've already chosen a new POW secretly with slushpool and bitfury so they can build new optimised mining hardware.

Even if they do hardfork POW most of the value will switch to BCH.

Honestly over the medium to long term BTC is completely fucked, it could be dead by next week if the whales do some magic soon.

I'm 100% in BCH and not worried at all, BCH is far less risky than BTC IMO.

Also I'm interested in time frame. I'm not interested in some long drawn out shit where they slowly gain organic granola adoption and get a 2x increase in price in like a year and we marvel at each tiny new place that accepts BCH. That isn't that useful to us as crypto investors because normal crypto gains can blow that out of the water (Bitcoin is at like a 7x for the year). I think the only reason you would invest in BCH is if it can really overtake bitcoin and do so in a pretty rapid fashion like we saw last weekend. If Roger and crew have the balls to do something like last weekend again soon, I'm all in.

>>4366091
Yes I was talking about Bitcoin Core having elite backers. Bitcoin Cash has more crypto people with large pockets as backers, not banksters.

>>4365929
o rly?

https://bitcoin2x.org/

>>4366159
That's the thing though. I think they're done. If I were them I'm not sure why they'd think a second try would work. With all of the bag holders they created it'll be much harder.

>>4366158
Bch is less risky right. When I trade bch I do it for usdt cause BTC feels like it could die any moment.
Do you get this feeling too? Seeing BTC and get this one Kennedy meme in your head?

Btw. Bitcoin just triple topped. Couldn't get through it. TA says this is the end

>>4366211
If youre confident BCH will go up then you can double youre money by using the BTC/BCH pair. Theyre inversly related

>>4366209
But why did the first one fail? Was it going to fail if Bithumb hadn't died? I don't know the answer to that. We didn't get a long enough set of data points.

I don't think they are even close to out of money though, so I can't see why they wouldn't try again. And this time Roger spread his BTC to many different exchanges, we can see by following the transactions.

>>4366240
I'm sure it'll just correct and bounce up at some point.

>>4366268
Well... you do have a point. He could just be waiting for BTC show weakness. I feel that we're just going to have a long drawn out downtrend though.

>>4366268
You also have to consider that the drop from 2800 to 1250 cost a lot of money for the BTC crowd to pull off. Now BCH holders can accumulate at a cheaper price

I legit don't follow the flippening but here's my understanding, which is limited, people chip in and tell me how retarded I am and if I'm even looking at the key points:

- 8mb blocks are an issue to core cucks because it will risk centralisation to places with the machinery and internet access required to mine

- bcash cucks think 8mb is better than LN because LN you end up getting centralised hubs anyway? For some reason they believe onchain 8mb is better than offchain LN? IDK.

- bcash doesn't have RBF, which means with the 8mb blocks, and the fact 0 confirmation transactions are actually safer than in core, it means small amounts can be trusted from the mempool meaning it's even faster for smaller shit

- bcash team pales in comparison, roger ver is accepted as a gayboy amongst scholars of the field, Vitalik is pro CP & perhaps bcash

So obviously a lot of that is possibly wrong, can people correct my stupidity. Also, will 8mb blocks be sufficient to actually scale? I feel like it's a temporary solution which comes with downsides.

RALLY IS STARTING

>>4366314
Think so too just bought more bch. Once in a lifetime opportunity

>>4365995
Do you remember where you read that?

>>4365879
That's just because you had a reduction of mining power + user demand to transact it.

>>4366103
t. corecuck

>>4366156
>yfw

>>4366314
Get the fuck out of my thread. No shills.

>>4366305
You can run a BCH node on a raspberry pi right now but not a BTC one because of the size of the mempool.

The way i see it is the centralization issue will be a problem in a few years but right now BCH is a good fix for the current problem. We cant afford to wait for lightning network right now.

Also, the (((owners))) of Blockstream all held positions in various financial institutions in the US including the world bank.

Thats my shilling done

>>4366004
If it was going to happen on that night it will happen eventually.

BCH's big backers have shown that they've got the ability to make a move on BTC and cause chaos, but then the other side must have the same. Who knows what's gonna happen. For now I'll hold both equally.

>>4366103
BTC's speed and cost has been an issue for years. My friend wanted to send £15 earlier and would have had to pay £8 in fees. Obviously that's not normal, but even half of that is simply not viable.

its all about fundamentals. if you believe in the future of big blocks go for it. i personally like small blocks and believe thats the future with offchain scaling. i dont think big blocks solves scaling. i believe it make it more centralized and either way eventually double or triple or even 10x the block size wont help. so offchain will still be needed. and by then 10x will make it way more centralized, plus bcash is for asicboost antminers to have grounds and not have their asicboost get removed. i personally dont agree with it. but its all about fundamentals and what you believe the future will be. dont look at politics dont look at the devs dont look at that just look at fundamentals and see what u think is the best for the future. the best code and rules will prevail. btc used to be 100$ but i believe in the future so now its 5k. so dont worry about the price. its more about the fundamentals behind it. i like ethereum and i like the decentralized network of apps being built on it. so im invested in it. i could care less about vitaliks tweets or the drama. its the fundamentals that the market rejects or agrees with. ur trades should be based on fundamentals and not pumps, any shitcoin worth nothing gets pumped.

>>4366354
it was a poster on bitcoinmarkets and they are very supportive of BTC so I don't think they were just making up numbers, they were genuinely scared.

Serious question to you all; I am looking into starting with cryptocurrency, what would you guys say are value buys at the moment? Or good investments? Is bitcoin (btc) still worth it? I am only new to this all so any serious help would be great.

>>4366425
Make your own thread. This is about BCash and BTC. Fuck off.

>>4366104
Fuck you, bitch bastird. Oracle is a real problem.

>>4366425
HOLD fiat until this all resolves

>>4366461
and with this full belly of kek I'm off to bed. Thanks, Pajeet.

I don't think BCH is done. You don't pull off maybe the greatest pump of all time and then just disappear into the wind.

My theory: there's a black swan event coming that only a few know about. This will weaken BTC and send it dipping. That's when Ver and Co jump back into the fray and dump BTC/pump BCH and twist the knife. Event can be anything but I'm just gonna go out there and say it's going to be BCH trading being added to Coinbase in the coming days.

>>4366382
Perhaps the best answer we have right now to what will happen.

Here's a question, 8mb blocks now solve the network congestion and help reduce transaction times & fees, but for how long will it continue to do so? Isn't this more of hack instead of a permanent fix? Currently I don't support neither chains because core = AXA, Bilderberg etc and cash = greedy miners.

This was just the beginning.
Test the waters.
To see how the enemy reacts.
Next time there will be zero mercy.
Everything torn to pieces.
Eviscerated and mauled by Jihan.

>>4366488
I thought coinbase had said this would be Q1 2018?

>>4366305
First point yes
Second point basically yes
Third point yes
Fourth point not really since the development is truly decentralized. The best ideas determined by multiple unbiased third parties wins.
Lookup technologies like graphene, there are many onchain scaling solutions that are being explored.

>>4366403

Look up Bitcoin Graphene friend, big blocks + onchain scaling is the future (coupled with low fees and near instant transactions of course)

>>4365792
The weekend rally set precedence to BCH, when Bitcoin dips you can be certain that money will move back to BCH and vice versa. BCH is the inverse of BTC

zzz all the paid shills calling Bitcoin Cash bcash, I thought we were having a discussion but no I'm arguing with paid trolls again.

I'm out

Pure technical facts:
- Once the new difficulty adjustment stabilizes BCH to 10min/block on average (another day or so) BCH users will no longer care how many miners are mining it - users will be unaffected and will send transactions happily whether few or many miners are mining.
- If the BCH price ever increases and the BTC price does not also increase, a few miners (if they like more profit) will switch to BCH.
- Every miner that leaves BTC will cause BTC to become slower.
- The slower BTC becomes the faster the transaction mempool increases.
- The faster the mempool increases the faster fees will rise.
- The more fees rise the more people will be unable to use their BTC until the fees go back down (if they do)
- If BCH has a massive price rise like this weekend miners will massively switch over, causing the above to happen quickly.

>>4366512
As of aug. 30 they said withdrawals will be enabled January 1, 2018. And they left open the possibility of opening a full market ( "if this changes, we will notify all customers with an update e-mail"). Maybe this email is coming.

>>4366362
I have a feeling coinbase will list bcc on the 1st of January.

>>4366574
They may open it then but just an email saying they plan to do that will set this market on fire.

>>4366104
Pretty spot on so far...

>>4366559
The ceo of coinbase has definitely been hinting on twitter

>>4366508
From what I have read the fears about 8 mb blocks and higher "taking up too much space" is mostly nonsense and misdirection used for political gain and manipulation. The whole bitcoin blockchain size from the beginning of time to now is like only 140gb. https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-cost-per-gigabyte/ shows how the price per gig changes with time

You can buy 4 Tb drives now for $99 and we can expect storage capabilities to increase for quite some time.

>>4366643
Can you post source of this?

>>4366554
This is a very good and impartial summary of how I understand things to be right now as well.

The only way I see BTC getting around this issue is a hard fork to code in variable difficulty like BCH. But they have been very resistant to any changes at all so that seems very unlikely. They are almost religious in their belief in no change and may go down with the ship rather than change.

>>4366671
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6f041e16a6/57370.PNG

>>4366772
Oh shit, nice. Thank you anon!

Congrats on this. Seriously.

perfect time to buy bitcoin cash before the moon.

It's hit its bottom.

>>4366671

>>4366554

Was also thinking this.

- During the last few days, Roger and big block whales have been moving large amounts of BTC across different exchanges.

- When BCH price spikes, miners will leave BTC because of profitability

It all adds up, but when will it happen?

Be careful out there guys!

>>4366167
Wasn't this thread supposed to be shill-free?

No clue what Im doing here but trying to buy some coins. How do I change a prepaid visa or mastercard into coins without giving some cunt website my personal information?

>>4366884
sign up for bittrex and buy some BCH

>>4366158
What about the unlikely but not impossible situation where core announces a hard fork to bigger blocks. That would kill BCH

>>4366858
bitcoin is ripe for a nice dip and they will just build on that downward momentum.

>>4366896
Then big block supporters win again.

>>4365792
30% BTC
30% ETH
20% BCH
20% ALTS

I feel pretty comfy right now, the next few days are gonna be interesting for sure. I pretty much traded my BTC close to the ATH for ETH so I'm not too worried.

>>4366895
Ive been told I should buy eth or ltc, preferably ltc and then exchange that into bch. Problem is jewbase wants your personal information from what I gather. I can just throw a prepaid visa on bittrex and buy bch with it?

BCH will be able to adapt faster to hashrate changes now.
Core is still stuck with their long ass window.

Everyone on here is talking about this pump and dump, but that shit doesn't matter.
Before the S2X cancellation, BCH was at $630, now it's up above $1000. Who cares about the spike.

>>4366305
>8mb blocks are an issue to core cucks because it will risk centralisation to places with the machinery and internet access required to mine
Yes, and the critics also point out this conflict of interest:
congestion is needed in order for Blockstream to make maximum profits (Create a problem and offer a paid solution)
before creation of BS the same guys were not against bigger blocks

>I feel like it's a temporary solution which comes with downsides.
Yeah, but at this point it seems that the upsides outweigh the downsides until a better scaling solution is ready

>>4366921
big block supporters don't support big blocks as much as they just want the core developers out of the way.

>>4365842
>Willing to fomo
Lol you wish. I bought bch at .12 when i figured what was going on and repeatedly sold and bought back in until it finally imploded at .42. I never trusted bch for a second, i was in for the easy btc gains ver and co were so kind to provide.
Thanks cashcucks, don't worry though, i'll put your money to good use. I've already fucked a $1k escort to celebrate.

>>4366921
True, but all in BCH holders lose

>>4366644

I mean down the line for BCH to be a serious day-to-day digital currency they're gonna need more than 8MB, which means to increase the block size again. I know it's in Satoshi's whitepaper, but it's not fucking feasible as you increase the block size for smaller people to keep up

>>4367176
Consensus rules at the end of the day always lies with the community.

So you literally cant buy coins without having personal information or using an actual credit card. Even the websites that are designed to not require information still require a credit card that has an attached name, and all your personal information even if not verified. You want to make money, go start a website that takes prepaid visas and doesnt ask all your personal details. No one has one currently, and this is the second time its stopped me from buying cryptocurrencies entirely. Not user friendly enough, not easy enough to buy coins when most people require you send a fucking selfie. I dont even have a cell phone, no need for that bullshit.

>>4367267
buy Monero on 1 exchange with your real name, send it to other exchange, buy less than 2-5 BTC (depends on exchange) with it and you can send it to your personal wallet and no one will ever know who it belongs to. also, sometimes those limits are daily and you can keep completely anon.

>>4366980
don't think so, idk why that anon said so

>>4367370
Where can you buy it that doesnt require a credit card with name attached ie prepaid visa or mastercard? What exchange should I use to turn it into other coins? Finally, where do I turn those back into actual cash when I "cash out"

>>4367267
You in the UK?

There are machines in the city, cash for BTC, not sure if other coins are available.

Right now choosing between BTC or BTH feels like heads you lose tails, you lose
best of luck

>>4366932

You realise that when BCH shakes off this propaganda campaign and starts spiking those shitcoins are going to go down the gurgler right?

99% of alts exist because BTC refuses to scale, they're going to dump after BTC dies and that money is going to move back into BCH.

ETH will last a little longer but will invariably die too when smart contracts get placed on top of BCH.

>>4367451
Canada. Im not looking to buy a lot of it immediately, so the high transaction fees on bitcoin atms prevent using them.

>>4365839
I call you a dreamer, don't mention fancy terms like Elliot wave when you have no idea what you are talking about, it makes me disgusted as fellow economist. BCH is going for 400$ mark whether you like it or not...

>>4366004
If your grandmother had a dick, she would be your grandfather ....

>>4367489
I think thats a big reason why there is so much bch hate here too. So many people are attached to their shitcoins and dont want to see bch make them become obsolete

>>4366850
It all kind of adds up since Coinbase was going to support S2X. Now that it's over might as well support Bitcoin Cash.

>>4367629
>and dont want to see bch make them become obsolete
>He's actually implying BCH is technologically advanced

BTC is shit and BCH changing block size doesn't make it any less shit overall

>>4367489
99%? I beg to differ. I only invest in altcoins that ARE NOT a currency competitor against bitcoin. There are plenty of them out there. Modum and Neblio are two examples.

>>4367489
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, yeah BCH with a few devs is better then entire crypto market. No need to disprove your point as you are irrational as one can find.

>>4366008

The lack of shilling in this thread is fading fast and turning to the same old buzzwords and regurgitated nonsense. Please people use facts you can back up with numbers or gtfo, the adults want to have a conversation. There are plenty of other threads for you guys to call each other cucks in.

>>4367782
That's my secret anon, market psychology of what people talk like.

>>4367782
Idiot core cuck. I bet you're a racist who uses the n-word too.

Well shit. I was happy to see a serious discussion here. Now /pol and the shills slipped in.

This is why we can't have nice things.

>>4365879
>not even an ath

If this triple top of BTC fails (which it seems to be doing) how far do you think it will go down? Fork.lol says that profitability is at a 1:1 ratio now too, so could be an opportune time for BCH to make a move.

>>4367951
What timeframe are you in? There's one headed to 5800 on the 30 min. But that's noise.

>>4368001
30 minutes

>>4367711

Grats you found two amongst thousands you personally believe aren't shitcoins, you totally proved your point.

>>4368058
That's those two green candles all the way on the left here >>4368001
Watch that dip to 6k and turn around

>>4367722

Do you have an actual argument or are you just blowing hot air? Seems to be the latter.

>>4368083
On the right I mean

>>4366896

What if core finally stops acting like a subversive fuckwit pursuing a bankster backed strategy and does the obvious thing that anyone with half a brain has been screaming at them to do for over two years now?

Yeah, that'd be terrible. They'd give us what we need and want, irreparably damage their credibility, and re-strengthen the position of the currency with the most market momentum.

Let's hope that doesn't happen. Scary stuff. Maybe people would even realise they're full of shit and desperate and they'd get turfed anyway, what a disaster that would be.

>>4365792
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pHZKFHy6g

lol @these BCH shills.

>Bitcoin Cash has a far smaller team working on it than core.
>Core releases repository updates far more frequently than Cash
>But muh conspiracy theories with no sauce!

The spike in BCH was largely due to the postponing of S2X. The reason BTC had such

a bull run was for people buying up for the fork so they could get their free B2X.
Obviously after the news many people no longer had a need for it, especially

shorters.
The pump and dump was perfectly timed so the shorters would see that WOW! This

coin's 24hr market cap is above bitcoin???
These same newfags are sold the FUD that this is the "real" bitcoin, especially

those who bought in just for the fork.
Also people are saying S2X is cancelled? It's still relatively just around the

corner, next year isn't really that far in terms of business.
Especially in Q1.
If anything happens, it will be in Q1.
>fork.lol

Looks like BTC/USD is having a break out. It's going to be interesting to see how fast BCH chain will adjust difficulty to get back to profitability to 1.

>>4366104

Pretty good read untill it says that most of the hash will be on bch, which it isn't. Maybe it can be done in the future with the difficulty ajustements and the price going up for bch or down for btc.
Also billions have already been poured into the last pump to no avail, how much gas do the deep pockets of bch have left, no one knows.

>>4365792

Watch Antonopoulos vidoes on youtube

>>4368266

>>4366104
>anon spends 5 minutes in notepad
>/biz/ believes him
Holy fuck this is why jews are in charge.

>>4368405

thanks for the vid, will watch later

>>4368857
I want a serious biz discussion on life without jews.

BTC seems to not be breaking the resistance at 6750 range.

>>4365792
>Looking for a serious discussion.
>>4366461
>Fuck you, bitch bastird. Oracle is a real problem

4chan /biz/, ladies and gentlemen.

>>4368933
I'm sorry but a random fucking "pastebin" screenshot that anon claims is from Oracle is anything but serious. /biz/ is like the wall st. journal, you come here to see what the shills want you to see and then draw your own conclusion from knowing the shills wanted you to know what they told you.

>>4368951
Most people were serious though. Thankfully.

>>4368974
idgaf about shill retards pastebin

>Satoshi’s vision

Who invented the first computer?
Who started Apple?
Exactly.

>>4369117
I just realized that I worded this horribly. Point is, the average person has no idea who invented the first computer. But they know who made it accessible to the masses. Same will happen with crypto.

BTC/USD rallying BCH/BTC price dropping but diff is keeping near 1. So far the new diff algo is working.

>>4365792

BCH is dead, and garbage

>>4369166
Well I guess since you're saying it must be true! Thank for bringing your wisdom to everyone here. You must feel super proud of sharing your deep and well researched opinion.

>>4366305

>roger ver is accepted as a gayboy amongst scholars of the field, Vitalik is pro CP

my fucking sides

good thread. 70% real discussion 30% niggers

>>4369136
>who started apple
>who made it accessible to the masses
Fuck you; fuck steve jobs; fuck Apple; fuck iPhones; and fuck you.

>>4369229
Pretty high for /biz/ desu; BTC will ATH in December ~8.5k before a big bear

>>4367596
>>4367604
>>4367722
>>4369166
why has core hired a team of pajeets to shill for them on this board? the fact they would do this implies they believe that BCH taking their throne is a very real possibility

>>4368773
The difference is Jihan is just another proof of work service provider. He has no power to "my way or the highway" without damaging his own interests which are directly tied to the value of the network rather than merely compliments to them as in the case of core.

They can act purely in their own interests at the same time they act against the network, which is exactly what they've done for years now and most people are too vulnerable to transparent ridiculous propaganda to figure it out.

Meanwhile all it takes for an asic vendor to lose is for a better one to come along and take their place providing more efficient proof of work.

If you really look at the territory it's very clear who is the entrenched centralised actor with special privileges and who is accountable to the actual goals of the network.

It's not about trusting core or jihan to work in our interests, it's about recognising that they're already working in their own, one of which aligns with the interests of holders and one of which simply does not.

>>4369303
Ignore that guy he doesn't argue he just shitposts in every bitcoin thread.

>>4369333
Unfortunately people read that shit and believe it if it goes unrefuted. We're way past peak idiocy in the space right now. People need everything spelled out for them and they all have fucking ADHD.

>>4369267

That is true, same thing is happening on reddit.

9 new mods added the past few days and deleting anything related to BCH.

Only people in fear have to do these things, they know whats about to happen.

>>4369255
You get the point though.

>>4369303
It ain't that easy to make ASICs and his machines are literally the only profitable way to mine unless you have off-grid power or live in latitudes lower than 20.

>>4369410
It's done on purpose. They used to defend their bullshit but when that didn't work they pretend that nothing happened and made a new thread. Now that doesn't work so they just shitpost ad homs everywhere they can.

>>4369423
>goading a reaction out of people by being openly hostile and facetious
>claiming the resulting censorship is evidence of inferiority
This is reaching /pol/ levels of ridiculousness.

>>4369431
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/japanese-company-will-launch-new-bitcoin-mining-operation-7-nm-chips/
This kills the monopoly

>>4369454
>>4369455

Oh god, here come the people from /pol and the stupid shills. We had a good thing going here. Dammit.

>>4369431
Similar arguments were raised at the time cex was dominating mining via hash power markets. What happened because of that? Literally fucking nothing.

Who just announced they're planning to mint 7nm SHA256 asics? Two of the biggest companies in Japan.

The laws of the market are not suspended in crypto space, they are both accelerated and used as foundations.

>>4369454
funny you mention /pol/, the shills core apparently hired to spam this board remind me of the shareblue shills hillary hired to spam /pol/ last year

>>4369443

Right. They're scared.

And they fucking should be. Because if any significant price action happens on either side of the pair after the BCH DAA has locked in which is not to favourable to the BTC side, they're completely fucking wrecked.

>>4365792
I personally am on BCH side. It's the new, improved version of BTC. Eventually, when Crypto hits a new peak and is adopted by Normies, they will go into Bitcoin which wont be able to work with its pleb 7 transactions per second. Eventually the Flippening will happen, and BCH will be the big fish of Crypto. For short term it will be turbulent, but if you got hands of steel, Hodl like your life depends on it, becuase Bitcoin Cash is the future.

Change is inevitable. All you can do is make sure it happens in your favour.

ok brainlet coming thru. this is assuming we're using the lightning network. If i transact with 50 different people during a week, do i have to pay to open a ln hub for each individual?

>>4369476
>7nm SHA256 asics
link and date? S9 antminers are available on Amazon.com; that's how I got mine. Jihan or not; they are efficient as fuck.

>>4369497
>core shills
Other way around senpai.

>>4365811
Elliot wave doesn't apply to something like the flippening because the psychology of the main actors as well as the masses are not typical of investors in normal climates. For example, two antagonistic assets facing off in a near-zero sum game of perceived asset value throws it off entirely.

Elliot wave theory would only make sense here if this was a profit generating utility backed coin (essentially analogous to a share) moving in price in a relative vacuum (no significant direct outside influences on investor psychology and the usefulness of the asset).

The flippening will happen regardless though.

Was an interesting read nonetheless.

>>4369522
deluded bagholder, thats cute
keep dreaming

>>4369536
I run a mining business. I'm aware of the economics of the present situation. I don't have a problem with the way things are now within it and I won't have a problem where zaibatsu swarms fire up their chip fabs.

It's a design assumption of the system that the proof of work providers have skin in the game. The assumption is valid. Everything else flows from it.

BTC/USD is continuing to moon but profitability is still staying around 1. The new algo is working. Now the next test is going to be on Bitcoins side how will everything work when BCH catches a bid and BTC/USD dips.

>>4369591
I think we're on the same page mostly because we do the same thing. ~100k under mgmt here.

>>4369564
I should elaborate. In this case, the main/biggest market actors (like jihan, ver and big BTC holders who want to maintain BTC's dominance) are not so much trying to buy value that will go up in value as they are trying to make the value they already hold more valuable. Viewed in this way, they aren't actually even investors and are not of the investor mindset at all.

>>4368266
Yes it would be great if that finally happened but you missed the point of the post. Big blockers who have gone 100% BCH would lose money.

>>4369303
Great post. This reasoning should be used as an argument every time instead of all the bullshit and personal attacks

>>4366240
Looks like it broke the resistance at $6800, upwards breakout inc?

>>4369670

I'm an on chain scaling advocate who has gone 100% BCH. If I saw the announcement BTC was actually going to go back to immediate reasonable scaling on chain, I'd just sell now and take my massive gains (thanks to the complete idiots who had no idea what was going on when the fork initially happened and just dumped for shit tier unhinged from reality of the value proposition prices) and also be happy that we're back on the right track and with the market momentum that has been accrued over the last few years.

The point isn't to destroy bitcoin, it's to make sure it thrives even in light of the hijack and subvert campaign from banksters and their core shills. We have to teach them they're not going to subvert the system rules with their same old tricks.

>>4369756
Yes it does seem to be breaking out. The thing is I don't even know if people like Roger and Jihan want BTC to be high or low anymore. If it is higher they just get more pumping power when they dump all their BTC, am I thinking about this correctly?

>>4369777
>on chain scaling
What's your answer to the 100x orders of magnitude required to actually be equivalent to SWIFT? 1mb vs 8mb makes very little difference at that point, and unless way more people are suddenly convinced to mine and/or run nodes, neither coin can really break that ceiling.

>>4369777
Yeah, just have to get out before everyone else. But I agree with you conpletely.

>thanks to the complete idiots who had no idea what was going on
I was one of them :( I really thought 2x was going to happen. When it didn't, I didn't expect BCH to take off that fast so got left out. Feelsbadman

wew lads im so pissed earlier today i had to replace by fee some transaction that were 50sat/b and had to bump to 150, i spent like 5 bucks to transact 350k usd wew really mad

>>4369849
Most on chain supporters are not against off chain scaling as well. Why does everyone always assume this

At what price is BCH more profitable?

>>4369849
False dichotomy.

On chain scaling doesn't mean no off chain scaling, it just means on chain scaling.

Off chain scaling should be done also.

>>4369886
The new difficulty algo keeps profitability parity no matter what price.

>>4369852
I'm right there with you. S2X backers have taken a huge credibility hit in my book, I had just already hedged against the possibility they would fold like a wet napkin and was increasing my BCH stake as it appeared more likely by the day. When it happened I just flipped the very last I was holding to BCH and had a very pleasant surprise at the rapidity of the response.

Frankly I thought core's propaganda was more effective than it appears to have actually been against the smart money at least.

>>4369899
So whats all this about?

>>4369849
Even with transaction malleability side chains can work it's just more difficult to implement BCH can not stop them. Transaction malleability is one the goals to fix. Currently flextrans seems to be gaining consensus as the fix. On BTC only segwit transactions are non-malliable all other types of transactions still are and can not be fixed without a hard fork. Once side chains such as LN are available for production use there is nothing stopping it from being on BCH chain. Which is good as they can fill the role of small pos transactions where the lower security model is acceptable for most users. On chain scaling will ensure you're not economically forced to use side chains so it becomes a choice between ease of use, cost, and security to your needs and wants.

>>4369972
Bitcoin is on a moon mission the algo will lag behind by a bit until the volatility dies down and it will catch up.

>>4369889
>>4369878
>off chain scaling
I agree that this eventually has to happen; but what protocols govern off-chain scaling? How do you insure against fractional reserve banking, or to what extent do you allow it? For example, let's say an off-chain entity has 200 BTC registered on-chain, what stops them from loaning out ~100 BTC equivalent to 10 guys who are guaranteed to pay them back? Even if they always pay back, the off-chain entity creates ~800 BTC-worth of wealth that may or may not make it onto the chain.

>>4369949
Yeah, fuck them for not keeping their word. I was going to go majority BCH but then I hesitated and figured I'd wait a bit.
Missing a moon mission is no problem but having been a big blocker for years and then missing this pump sucks hard.

At least now we will get real scaling, one way or another. Congrats on the gains

>>4370071
>market competition of scaling technologies
I agree; but then why not just do this with multiple coins? It's not as if anyone would say that real estate, gold, and dollars aren't different but co-existing assets, why can't it be the same with crypto?

>>4369849
Graphene.

>>4370212
more like memene lmao

>>4370113

Market decides.

Cryptographic proof of reserves and a straightforward policy about how the excess is actually invested into which assets allows the party choosing whether to involve themselves in that venture or not if it's a good idea, subjecting themselves to both the risks and rewards in each case.

For people who simply will not accept any fractional reserve, cryptographic proof of reserve allows them to meet their objectives too.

End result is an equilibrium for actually intelligent deployment of investment resources across society.

>>4369831
This is entirely speculation but atm I think Jihan/Ver want BTC to keep going up with BCH staying around $1200.

The next 'attack'/pump comes when BTC dips, likely when the 2x fork goes live and pulls hash power away from BTC.

>>4370586
yeah this actually makes sense

>>4369612
Problem is if another one of these panics occurs.

BTC transaction spikes have been getting larger and larger with time. Look how much this one hurt. What's going to happen next time? Without a significant change to BTC, people won't even be able to move their BTC during the next panic. The mempool still isn't clearing.

>>4370134
Look at the BTC/BCH graphs over the last few days, they are pretty much tracking each other.

This is an ideological split within Bitcoin. BTC going one way, and BCH going the other.

>>4370229
Graphene is legitimately good tech that should reduce the network load of the network significantly.

>>4370586
Wait don't tell me S2X is still happening??????

>>4370913
Afaik it's still happening on the planned date, but not led by the core team (no idea who's in charge).

The actual fork (led by core) is planned for next year.

>>4365792
I'm all in ETH so I'm about as impartial as you're going to get with this.

basically bitcoin cannot scale under the current codebase.

you probably know this already but there's 2 sides to the debate much like american politics. there's the core dev camp (small blockers) and the chinese mining cartel (big blockers). also, much like american politics, both sides are at fault.

the core devs (((blockstream/bcore))) own patents on off chain solutions (((the lightning network))) so they are keeping the block size at 1MB to force people onto the lightning network so they can make money. the mining cartel (((bcash))) is essentially a centralization point of the bitcoin network, they control all the hashpower and can throw their dicks around as they please and control the direction of bitcoin. (((bitmain))) also exploits the mining algos to make more money.

arguably bcash is closer to satoshi's vision because it actually scales with volume, has low fees, and fast transactions. the problem is there's too many jews in the mix so neither bcore nor bcash cannot grow organically - it keeps being pumped and dumped either by the crooked-ass mining chinks like Jihan or bcore fags with their bitfinex funny money (((tether))).

long story short, it's all fucked. bad.

>>4370957
This is madness. And it's happening in 2 days??
Is there even code for it released? Guess there must be.

>The actual fork (led by core) is planned for next year.
Who even knows what this space is going to look like by next year.
BTC mempool is STILL filling up, if it dips again...
Already seeing talk of switching POW algo in BTC, or swapping to POS from the core community...

>>4365792
Remember to short BCH on Jan 1 2018, folks.

>>4370972
>(((bitmain))) also exploits the mining algos to make more money.
Not a single ASICBoost block has ever been seen on the blockchain.

>>4369526
you have to have a deposit in each "channel", so, yes. You also will probably have to pay a middleman a fee.

This ignores that a real, completely decentralized LN is a mathematical impossibility at this point. There literally HAS to be centralized hubs, the design doesn't work without them.

Guess who's gonna run the hubs?

>>4371017
I'd love to see core try to seriously implement PoS. The miners would just up and leave and go to Bitcoin Cash, leaving the Core chain just dead.

>>4365792
only n00bs, shills and faggots hold btrash.

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BCHUSD/ipVL5Wnh-BCHUSD-update/

Thought this was kind of interesting. She's the #1 rated analyst on Trading View.

>>4371967
Get the fuck out of my thread. Go crawl back into your mother ass crack.

>>4371967
OP said specifically no hateposting here, get out
You've just shitposted

I'm interested in this thread, go on guys

I think it's interesting how BCH and BTC have maintained their inverse relationship. At the first sign of weakness I'm sure BCH would probably take a run for it.

The rumor that they're waiting for some black swan event might have some truth to it. If BTC were to drop heavily BCH would probably be there to absorb that value.

>>4372280
True gentleman. There were some great posts in the beginning and i think there are legitimate reasons why BCH needs to succeed. Maybe not to replace BTC, but as a near 1:1 alternative. Im dreaming though. Would be nice..

>>4372315
I think Bitcoin Cash really could replace Bitcoin. Now there's enormous inertia in overcoming Bitcoin's current dominance and recognition, but Bitcoin is fundamentally unworkable at this point as a currency and even highly impractical when viewed on the level of a transfer.

When we consider Metcalfe's law, the number of users will be proportional to the value. Well, ultimately the fast confirmation times and low fees are ultimately going to attract more users. It's not going to be immediate- you're going to need to have more exchanges start allowing users to buy Bitcoin Cash directly with fiat, but when that happens, the ball can really start rolling with Bitcoin Cash.

Bitcoin's present scaling roadmap is nothing. Fees are only going to get worse, and it'll be at the point that small balances, say, less than $100 become worth much less, and those worth $20 are effectively worthless because the fee to actually use that money will exceed the balance.

>>4372387
Couple of days before the failed flippening I asked a local PLN-BTC exchange if I can directly buy BCH, they said "BCH isn't well seen in the world"...
I hope last events convinced them a little. BCH is a powerful player at the moment.

>>4372437
With the trade volume you're seeing and rising market cap I expect it'll be difficult to be ignored. If you're a big exchange looking for the next coin to list, Bitcoin Cash is an obvious pick.

But yeah, this is a type of inertia that'll take months to be reached.

I'm sitting on nearly 5k of Bitcoin Cash now (sold off a lot a lot of my Bitcoins from 0.08-0.33). We'll see what happens.

>>4372482
5K Coins or you 5K in fiat? 5K in coins would be sick.

>>4365792
Don't believe the pump was caused by some whales. People have legitimate reasons to back this coin over BTC.
For now it is faster, cheaper and isn't controlled by Blockstream that is backed by Wall Street bankers.
As for the scaling. People have been arguing on and off chain scaling for years now. They are still arguing. That should tell you that Bitcoins scaling isn't definitely better, if there are still a lot of people arguing for on-chain scaling.

>>4366947
Bittrex doesn't do fiat.

>>4372315

I'm 100% in BCH and not even worried, BTC is not a competitor it is a dying giant that doesn't realise it's bleeding.

Look at the order book - its being drained. At $1500 there was 7000btc a few hrs ago and now its 4000btc

>>4372696
What do you mean? Explain it to a retard.

>>4372696
which exchange?

>>4372709
at $1500 there was a cumulative total of 7000btc... now theres only 4000

>>4366121
Why so secret? Do tell your 100x

>>4366378
yeah, you run that shit on rpi, because the blocks are not fucking 8mb, most of them are below 10kb, retard. and the mempool is empty because nobody is using that shitcoin.

thats my shilling done

>>4372864

Even if all BTC + LTC transactions suddenly moved to BCH right now the mempool would be clear and transactions woul still cost <1 cent

>>4370865

>mempool still isn't clearing

Right. BCH DAA effectively has locked it at the present level.

Next significant bull run is going to cause immense amounts of core pain.

>>4371057

What about covert asicboost though? I had a look at the method for doing this and relying on those hash collisions in the merkle root does seem like it might have been possible to do it without it being possible to detect.

Hype or potentially legit? I'm extremely skeptical because the primary accusation comes from fucking maxwell, but can't let that interfere with a full rational analysis. If the circuit is there in the ASIC, and they own the patent, and it's possible to do it, why would they not?

both BTC and BCC (Bitcoin china) are fully corrupted and no longer viable to be a secure store of value, not gonna shill any other coin, just going to point out that we need a real legit secure trustless no premine uncorruptable coin

>>4371803

That's going to happen anyway on the next significant BCH price spike due to BCH DAA.

>>4366878
It was shill free but the facts are so positive that some accidental shill is inevitable

Ok no one cares about your shill attempt - what are the hashes for

>>4372990
The Asicboost thing just doesn't make sense to me. Why release a whitepaper with all the details of how exactly it works? Why file patent applications, again detailing exactly how it works. Plus the patent status is unclear, with 4? different patent holders covering ASICboost

Better to just keep your head down and stay quiet, now that they tried to patent it it's going to get used by every ASIC manufacturer. Good luck taking someone to court over this nonsense, Bitcoin is already in a legal enough grey area.

>>4369303
how is it not the exact same with core? where the fuck did you pull "special privileges" from?
just like jihan can be replaced by someone (which is hard btw, since you need to invest millions in production of competitive asics), just like core can be replaced by some other team (way easier, since all you need is to fork their github, takes like 2 minutes and no capital).
also, if the rumors are true, core members have thousands of btc in timelocked wallets. thats the definition of working in the interest of the network.

>>4365792
its a scam coin.

i shilled it all last weekend to dump my bags on you faggots.

you really think /biz wants to see you poor wagecucks get rich over night?

schmucks.

>>4371803
There's way more holders than miners. The holders will take up the mining with their own rigs, which will easily handle the load because they aren't running SHA256 anymore, and we'll finally get actual decentralization. In theory at least...

>>4373169
This is a serious thread. You're bullshit isn't accepted here. Get out.

>>4373208
i doubled my bags with the smart money and dumped on the fucking retards like you

>still in denial
>volume has declined ten-fold the last 72 hours
>sell order totals insane everyone trying to escape
>people left holding bags with their dicks in their hands fly unzipped
>embarrassed.jpeg
>brokeaf.jpeg
>depression
>suicide

BTC just had a run up and BCH holding strong. Someone is accumulating and keeping the price there. I feel something big is about to happen..

If Roger and big block whales plan to do something it is going to happen by end of year. Coinbase giving their customers their BCH in Jan 2018. Customers will probably keep it if BCH takes over BTC.

Just speculating on the current situation!

>>4373242
I'm not even holding bags dumbass. Wtf is wrong of you. Barging into a random thread talking smack.

Are you that insecure with your tiny dick? Fuck off.

>>4366004
it was at .7 on coinexchange

>>4373247
lmfao you got robbed by white-collar con artists you faggot

if you bought in early enough you made double or triple your money like me.

greed is a terrible drug.

never buy on the rise.

never hold a PnD coin, wtf is wrong with you fucking retards?

>>4373252
your mother liked my penis tho

>>4373247
Jan will be too late - they need to do it before LN in december

>>4373271
Wow. You must be like 10. Keep writing.

>>4373301
your mother liked my 10 year old penis :)

Worst case, you're an absolute tard and bought ATH, just keep holding. Coinbase has confirmed they're adding BCH in January. Don't lose money because you can't hold for 2 fucking months guys

Nah, I think holding till January isn't the best. You can always buy back in lower if it keeps the downtrend.

Quickly, sell to my buy order, i will carry your bags to 4k for you

>>4373325
I honestly just made that up too.

Coinbase never confirmed they were adding BCH.

I just say shit like that for the normies to cream and try and jump in early.

>>4372575
wall st banksters vs communist chink government.
choose your poison.

>>4373383
exactly

BCash cucks, you guys are pathetic.

>>4373406
exactly

So basically no one know what will happen.
Safe alts to wait out this shitshow?

>>4373432
ethereum or fiat

Bcash is being fudded thats a signal to do more research and buy in. A number of top TA experts see bch going to 3k in a week or less

>>4373480
spelling expirt

BCC is Bit Coin China, you're letting the chinese govt have full control over the main crypto if you support this chink coin, also remember friends the people in this thread supporting BCC are PAID SHILLS do not fall for thier bullshit

>>4373979
Sure bud, sure. Take your meds on your way out.

>>4373492
>>4373406
I hope you're doing some next level reverse psychology because your pathetic fuding is an obvious buy signal.
>>4373979
It's literally the opposite case.

stop spewing buzzword bullshit. if you got a reason to think bitcoin cash is bad or bitcoin is bad or whatever just give us a proper explanation.

>>4373365
nope

>>4367073

post her

>>4367073
It took $1,027,541,714 in trade volume to stop you being a virgin. Well done, anon.

>>4373169
kill yourself corecuck

>>4373979
Fun fact- to spot a real core shill (as opposed to someone who legitimately just doesn't like Bitcoin Cash):

1. Shill will never say "Bitcoin Cash". Bcash Btrash Bcrash instead.

2. Shill will forever bring up xenophobia- suggest a Chinese/Korean conspiracy.

3. Doesn't respond to arguments

>>4373365
Shut the fuck up nigger, you will lose all your money and post pink wojaks here in a couple of weeks

>>4373406
Kill yourself corecuck shill

>>4373979
BTC is the rothschild slavecuck choice, why dont you fucking sell your own body too them as well

>>4368857
Except the prophecies foretold in the text written in JULY have started coming true. Including the Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2017/11/12/bitcoin-cash-skyrockets-bitcoin-price-drops-as-civil-war-continues/#66081b6e35b5

rate my memelines

BCH is so stable now
what's gonna happen

>>4374332
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Unconfirmed transactions up to 72k from 60k

Up to 74k in 6 minutes

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/11/14/dbs.html

BTC declared a ponzi scheme by David Gledhill, chief information officer at DBS

The thing now is to know if you are going first to look for the roof of the canal or go for the blue below.

>>4373169
BTC is the heart of the scam, Bcash is just a group of Chinese scammers trying to scam back the scammers.

Would you rather A. Be enslaved by a global currency controlled by the elite

Or B. Own a coin that the Chinese manipulated in the early days (not unlike bitcoin in the early days)

>>4366202
1 look at that site shows it's trash. A fucking pic of moon when, rly?

>>4371946
>>4371981
>>4373480

TA, not even once

>>4372575

>x5 bull run in a few days at the top
>not whales

sweet summer child

>>4372751

>what is spoofing
>what is market manipulation

those are unregulated market, people can do whatever they want

>>4372922

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AecPrwqjbGw

yes but for how long? bigger blocks is just a way to kick the ball down the road, not a finality in itself

>>4373242

Well if the volume has decreased it means the bear run is slowing down, not the opposite, selling pressure is weakening.

>>4374284

Meh, btc still have the hash power and I whales already poured billions into bch, I don't know how much ammo they have left.

How do I get into crypto currency? are there any videos I should watch or books I should read? pls help.

>>4375744

>open a kraken account
>give size of dick, number of sexual partners and a bunch of other kyc stuff to get verified
>try to get an order in
>error
>do that 50 times
>check your balance
>turns out the first order actually got executed despite the error message

bravo, you are now the proud owner of cryptocurreny

>>4366554
I, too, read a pastebin spammed on here recently

>>4366065
it was clogged because miners switched to BCH.
if you get 10 minute blocks, there is no problem at all.
Now that BCH fixed their shit, there is no need for 70% of miners to go mine something with lower returns (since difficulty would spike very quickly and make it less profitable again)
so the mining percentages will balance eventually.

>>4366386
>and would have had to pay £8 in fees
or wait and not send it instantly?

Hashpower moves to BCC 3h average at 28% now.
BTC is clogging again.

It's happening

>>4376299
Yep

what the FUCK do you think happens if the BTC chain dies all YOUR money will be gone
your MOTHER will kick you out of your house because you have no money anymore
IF you have some self respect you go work at mcdonalds so YOU can pay the next rent bill of your shitty apartment.You killed crypto just because you WANTed a easy moon mission. FUCK every single one of you.

>>4377190
I don't have a mother, anon.

>>4377190
I don't have a house, anon.

>>4366104
>>Jihad has ALOT of hashing power
Oh my god i'm dying here.

>>4377190
I don't have a money, anon

>>4374059
>>4374088
>T.bagholder

>>4366362
dogecoin is more popular than BCH will ever be, sorry