/biz/ - Business & Finance

>day trading

>>437075

I want in. what do?

>>437095
Deposit your money into your local banking institution.

Burn down the bank.

>>437075
Yep, you're fucked OP.

>>437075

Can a sales background help in this? Also I'm a fucking nerd of all nerds, a part time alcoholic and a risk taker by nature. Where do I start. Just give us the short list. International banking and FIX networking is the easy part.

>>437075
Cons:
- If you dont have atleast 20,000$ to invest you probably wont make enough to live off of

I am confused about day trading, with my thingo, of I buy stocks it takes three day for the money to clear, how to day trade?

>>437131
Cause you actively monitor open positions aswell as the market on a daily basis.

Intraday trading is when you get in and out of a position by the end of the trading day.

>>437131
investing goes a long way beyond stocks. look at forex

>>437137
good luck competing against the algorithmic traders.

>>437075
It is a dream. it is not real.
Personally i loosing 15000$ in 2 years so far.
I belive more and more in random walk.
http://youtu.be/B8cN586JUR8

>"Retail is the sale of goods and services from individuals or businesses to the end-user."

every business has retail then... okay.

Retail day trader == Day Trader

this is giving me mastermind ideas though

>>437245
It is a dream for all but a few. Of course nobody wants to think they are part of the majority because then you're already done and might as well quit. I'm coming up on 2 years now and haven't had much monetary loss, have spent a massive amount of my time though.
Also my trading is about break even at this point. They aren't kidding when they say this is probably the hardest thing you can attempt to learn.

As far as the OP, "best possible career" with a huge IF you can get there without losing everything in the process

>>437075
how does a day trader anticipate price movements

>>437162
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>437413
lol everyone talks like this until they start losing.

>>437435
>technical analysis
look for pattern in the graphs
>fundamental analysis
crunch numbers and stats, run math models, etc.
>sentimental analysis
watch the news, gauge public opinion, current events, basically evaluate the intangible human factor

combination of all 3 lets you anticipate general price movements. but in the end nothing's for certain, even if your analyses are "correct"

>>437438
actually most people are deluded and have unrealistic expectations about trading, very few will tell you what a gigantic pain in the ass it is until you become consistently profitable (if you get there)

>start losing
there isn't a trader in the world that doesn't have drawdowns, not sure what you're getting at

Isn't this like gambling for middle class people?

>>437075
>day trading

Lmfao

>>437440
I do all of this on a longer timescale, over weeks or months. Unless there is some major event taking place on a particular day most daily fluctuations in price seem like random walk to me.

I understand algos, if the price begins to fall/rise because some random retirement fund has decided to sell/buy they can buy/sell once the price is under/over valued, however the pro high frequency traders with direct market access are going to react much quicker than a human day trader.

On the other hand trading strategies need to be changed depending on the situation so I can see where human day traders might come in, adapting their trading strategy in a fast moving stock in a way that an algorithm cannot.

Do day traders commonly trade the same few derivatives or do they trade one that is moving quickly then when volatility dies down they move on to another?

>>437075

you can do this, but not in the US.

>>437468
yeah it's all about volatility and volume. you can't make money on a daily basis without either one

some traders stick to a single active instrument, like EURUSD forex. others jump to whatever is most active at the given moment and primarily rely on technical analysis. generally speaking you'll have more success by familiarizing yourself with a few active ones

>>437075
>no need for connections
So cute when they're young. What do you think "edge" is?

>>437477
oh thx for clarifying, volume and volatility seems to be a "thing"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101697061

forex looks like a paradise for algos, high volume presumably due to all the businesses that need to exchange currencies

http://i.4cdn.org/biz/1407147905302.png

random events are unlikely to have much effect and are difficult to predict on the scale of pips, though maybe I should familiarize myself a bit more, I'm going here

http://www.babypips.com

>>437413

It is a dream for all but few. But not in the sense that it's unattainable. It is very well within reach for almost anyone. However truly the hardest is mastering YOURSELF not the Market. It all come down to YOU. You will never outplay market, you will never find 100% holy grail strategy. You might as well not even be profitable through few months in a row.

Market is ever changing you must adapt as well. People tend to over-optimize their backtests and fail. People tend to forget that they shouldn't be going into the market unless there is a RRR 2:1.
And mainly, a lot of people ignore stop loses or are hoping for the best when they are losing money, never do that. Hardest part is to accept that you've been wrong and closing the position while minimizing the loss or being too greedy.

Personal experience, lost 7000$ last summer on the GBPUSD during all the Carney Speeches when GBP was ever rising. Had 3 chances to turn it off, 1st was with about 1000$ profit but i was too greedy and wanted more. 2nd was with about 200$ profit but i did not want to settle for mere 200$ after the market has been dipping as low as -3000$ and my last chance was at -700$ i ignored that as well, then i paid the price in full.

You will learn only through your mistakes. You will at least twice flush your money completely, but if you persist. You will come out as a winner.

pic related, trading is very simple, you don't need 280 indicators and read 370 opinions to be profitable. Learn how to read a market.

>>437535
Since you appear to be quite the man here in this thread regarding forex, i have a question

I'm currently trying to build a decent strategy, so far had terrible luck with reversal strategies, currently up to trend following strategies.
I've found out that ADX+DMI indicator is really a killer, very few false signals (so far). What kind of supporting indicator can i use as confirmation? And what timeframe would you suggest? Some specific tips?

Thanks in advance

>>437535

I don't mind sharing my know how, not like we will be direct competitors anyway. Another snippet from my graph. To show you that it works both ways, it just comes down to graph patterns and looking at the price action.

>>437555

Hello there fellow baby trader.

Good thing you've dropped the reversal strategies, they are very hard for a new comers and bit of elusive even for the more experienced traders. Or i am at least one of them. And like they said, Trend is your friend. Always try to go where the money are going and never go against the market.

Strategy is always down to personal preference, the pictures shown in here are the snippets of how my graphs look like, i use just Volume and two MAs and it's more than enough for me. It's good for determining the general trend or if it's a chop (then i stay away from trading) and then i combine it with the graph patterns.

Mostly i use 1-2-3 along with swings for my trading. I am never aiming for 100% sure entry, there is no such thing like that. I am going for a probability and always taking a risk. If you follow the RRR (Risk Reward Ratio) with minimum of 2:1 you will come out as profitable even with only 50% success rate, not to mention if you manage to hit ~65%

Hmm i was trying to show you what the swings are through the investopedia and i am really surprised there are no pictures O.O

Also, these are some of the graph patterns mostly used by me.

Holy shit, i cant find even this one. It almost looks like people don't to share the know how.

Hold on, i'll just take few pictures out of my trading software and edit it to show you what i mean.

>>437560
Thanks man. Will wait

>>437555

Here it is. All of what i use is contained in a single picture along with where i scored a fairly good trade yeserday.

White arcs represents the swings. Swings High and Swings Low. Obviously.

Red numbers 1-2-3 represent the probable trend direction. The one on the left goes as followed. 1 represents New Higher LOW. 2 Represents new HIGHER HIGH and 3 Represents Once more HIGHER LOW than the 1st LOW. This means, it could be considered as an uptrend. Since there was not enough power to push it down further.

Ideally, this 1-2-3 Pattern would go on until the trend is exhausted but the anomalies happen as well. Like the next one, where the green line is. It's a support, it's considered as a reverse. And with conjunction to the previous 1-2-3 i assumed it was still legitimate uptrend.

The Purple line is where i entered the trade yesetrday, i set the stop loss just bit below the last higher low. I risked about 10 points where i was pushing for as far as 30 points of profit. Which means that the RRR was 3:1

I turned it off right at the top, where the second purple line is because it looked to me that the trend have slowed down only to miss huge spike upwards. But never ever, feel sorry, opportunities come every day.

The second one are 1-2-3 just in the opposte direction. Higher High, Lower Low, Lower High. Imagine it as some kind of stairs.

Also, i generally trade 1, 5 and 15 minute graphs. 1 and 5 for active trading and 15 for looking at the MA cross lines and general supports and resistances.

ITT:people that would have better luck making money going to local casino and putting 20k on black on roulette table.

>>437574
Oh thanks. I also see how volumes are so important. Your moving averages also seem to give solid buy signals when crossing. But it seems your strategy requires a lot of time to follow up. I was personally looking for some set and forget strategies, place your orders and check a few hours later.

>>437593

Good luck with that :) This kind of strategies work when you are paper trading. With real money you will not be able to do that. At least i cant :)

>>437596
Yeah, that's why I'm still in forward testing, ofc will use microlots and huge leverage in real. Needs some serious discipline, but so far my little strategy has been showing some potential, around 80% succesful trades (i prefer opening multiple positions). And yeah, now i see why the 20%, it's about volatility. Thanks for the tip anon!

>>437596

This, I knew someone that had a trading business, trading other folks money. The fact is very simple, the market moves at the speed of light these days. Expect to spend 12 Hours a day, watching all your positions. You miss the news on one stock because you went to get a cup of coffee and your fucked. Forget about sleeping.

cant be fucked making a new thread, so i'll freeload in this.

whats the best broker for a trading game? realistic with pretend money fees etc.

>>437162

That's not really how it works.

Giant financial institutions buy and sell shares in huge blocks, and this process goes on over weeks or even months. Because they're buying and selling in such bulk, their very actions help shift the stock price up or down. If you can figure out the leading stocks of the current market, then you have a fairly solid chance to get in early at the beginning of an up- or downtrend. Doing this consistently will net you some nice money.

The algorithms are handy for FIs in determining when to buy and sell, but in no way does that mean you'll automatically lose all your money to them the moment you put it in the market. The very structure of the market - its rules and conditions - allow for plenty of opportunity for small investors to make some cash. Of course, to have a better-than-random chance at making money, you'll need to educate yourself about the markets and trading strategies.

playing cards for a living

Pros:
- No bosses
- No annoying co-workers
- Can work anytime from anywhere in the world
- Unlimited potential income if you are good
- A very creative and mental challenging job
- No need for degrees, connections

Cons:
- If you are stupid, you're fucked

>>437130
You can't day trade with anything less than $25,000 anyway. You can have like 5 grand and get the rest on margin, but if you use any of that margin money and lose it, you're fucked.

>>437798
Actually I've been day trading with account equity ranging from 2.5k to 6k. Taking out about $500 a week for expenses. Been doing this all of 2014 and have not put a cent into my trading account. This week I am up roughly 2k to an equity of about 5k.

I don't recommend doing this though. But I also don't recommend a new trader starting out with 25k in their account because they will lose it all. I consistently lost money for the first 1.5 years I was doing this.

>>437811
what broker?

>>437825
igmarkets.com

I hardly trade stocks though. Mostly CFDs on futures. Mostly gold,oil, indexes and bonds.

>>437811
The $25k limit isn't just some suggestion for how much money to have, it's a regulation set by FINRA, but way to blatantly show you're full of shit.

Let's say I had 500k, how much could I make day-trading monthly?

>>437848
$9,520

>>437075

>"If you are good"

What a load of absolute nonsense. Even if you are good (I'm talking math PHD genius) it is certainly possible that you will blow through $100,000 if that's all you have to play with.

Why do you think so many geniuses go to work for companies and play with other people's money? It's because it's much easier to be a consistent winner when a big loss doesn't hurt you as much because you're playing with millions.

>>437841
>FINRA
>Everyone is an american

>>437886
>implying anyone that isn't american matters

If u wanna make money day trading just write one of those stupid "how I got rich day trading using this patent pending super method" ebooks. Make a site and advertise it online. Write some fake reviews and go on finance forums and news sites and post about how good it is. Sell it for like $29-39. Done.

>>437890
too bad literally no one buys ebooks nowadays

>>437889
>CFDs are currently available in the Australia, Austria, Canada, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom and New Zealand. They are not permitted in a number of other countries—including the United States, due to restrictions by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on over-the-counter (OTC) financial instruments.
>implying anyone that is an american isn't a slave to the financial overlords and actually matters

>>437896
tl;dr
>thinking whatever you're talking about matters if you aren't american

>>437895
>>437895

You'd be surprised. Ebooks are popular and ppl love buying hopes & dreams

>>437899
he is talking about CFD's or contract for differences

it is a newer financial derivative that is allowed to be traded in practically every country but America

>>437906
b-but m-m-muh freedoms?

I was a professional day trader before going into private equity. You can ask me anything. Every post I've read so far is ignorance at best.

>>437987
1) Did you trade your own money?
2) Which is harder work?
3) Which is more rewarding?

>>437988

>Did you trade your own money?
No and yes. I started at a prop firm. Took my commissions from there to begin trading my own account. I started when I was 20.

>Which is harder work?
Private equity obviously. Prop trading is pretty much self-employment. You can work your own hours, at home or on the floor, etc.

>Which is more rewarding?
As in money? Private equity. However, prop trading was rewarding when you make a huge win on your own analysis and hard work.

>>437245
>Personally i loosing 15000$ in 2 years so far.
negro you're a gambling addict, stop that shit

what you were supposed to do is trade imaginary money for 2 years and say "ok, I lost 15000 monopoly moneys doing this, it is not for me, I will start that whiskey business I always wanted since I am an expert in brewing, thankfully I didn't use real money and have $15000 to set up a distillery in my basement"

>>437987
With the proliferation of decent platforms from discount brokers these days, what's the difference between prop trading and just sitting around at home?

(Unstated assumption: if I have enough cash I don't need a salaried job for a few years, do I really need the higher leverage and/or lower commissions? Difficulty: Presently sitting around at home, heavy in cash, because divergence between small/large caps is disconcerting.)

>>438044
THIS
>This
>~this
The whiskey business won't start up itself.

>>437535
I really don't get macd. If you had bought at the upwards cross and sold at the downwards, wouldnt you have lost money?

>>438059

I use Takion. It is a pain to learn but it is amazing. If you take a platform like Takion and set it side beside to a retail platform like ThinkOrSwim, you will never want to use that garbage again.

If you are wanting to trade and HAVE the capital that you are risking to lose, then there is nothing wrong trading retail. However anything with ____trade in the name is usually garbage. Interactive Brokers is what a lot of guys I know trade their own accounts through. I've also heard good things from Lightspeed.

If you have $5K or something and think you are going to get rich, you should just sit on that $5k and join a no capital required firm like Tower Hill Trading. They start you off very small but it's easy to move up. I think it's 5 shares/$5k BP now, and every 2 weeks if you have 5+ winning days and have profit, it is doubled up to 1k shares/$1MM BP. They take 20%.

>>437245
That video. Why would he trade with such a shitty connection/feed.

>tfw $45k in capital gains starting in 2012
>tfw I ONLY trade sub penny stocks

>>437413
I am perplexed - how can day traders even lose money? If you don't trade it in that day because its not profitable, why can't you just hold onto the stock until the next day, or a year, until it is profitable? Who is making you buy an sell the stock on the same day?

>>438092

because then it isn't day trading

>>438092
again, day trading stock is a giant misconception. stock isn't volatile enough to day trade profitably without using extreme capital. the only time stock day-trading was viable for the average guy was during the dotcom bubble

>>438094
>>438101
So really there's no reason to day trade when you could make more money and be safer just regular trading.

>conditional buy low
>conditional sell high

Don't even need to watch the market.

>>438079
Thanks. As a retail guy I figured there was still a gap between what you get for $retail/trade and what's used professionally, which is why I only described the retail stuff as decent. (Agreed on the $5K. Wouldn't dream of going full time without a $100K runway, and maybe that's where the leverage comes in. With rates low, no fundamental difference between $100K retail account vs $90K cash in a bank account and $10K at risk at the firm levered 10:1.)

>>437574
jesse livermore described that trend, each peak/trough higher than the last

>>438103
you can day trade other instruments. you know the financial world consists of more than just stock

>>437075
Why people say that the mayority of the day traders loss money?

>>438142
The core concept remains the same, why purchase and sell on the same day when you could purchase, hold and sell in the space of eg. A month and have a safer, basically guaranteed profit.

>>438286
The longer the holding period the more the risk

>>437124
>a risk taker by nature
pls dont into stocks youll lose everything

>>438076
If you are refering to the one i am using then it's not MACD but just simple MA (Moving Averege). It can be used in numerous ways, like the crossing you said. But to identify the trend you have to look where the Moving Avereges are. If they are UNDER the Price Action Graph itself then it's an UPTREND >>437556

If the MA are ABOVE the Price Action Graph itself, then it's a DOWNTREND >>437535

You can use it numerous ways, even crossing, but i don't use it since it requires to sit in a position far too long and it can generate few fake signals as this MA is slightly behind the Graph Itself and if you get into a chop then you will be sitting in a not moving position for few hours.

If we're talking about crossings then it comes down to from where the white line crosses the blue. If the white line crosses the blue from top to bottom and then follows like here >>437535
Then you Sell. If it crosses the from bottom to top and follows like here >>437556 Then you Buy. This was ONLY about the crossing strategy. Also, the further is the white line away from the blue one the stronger the trend is.

However, what i use is more of a bounce backs from the MAs white is for the 1 or 5 minute bounces and 15 or sometimes even 30 minute graphs for bounces from Blue. Bounces from blue tend to mostly be actually reversals and i don't like to trade reversals i am more of a trend following guy. So even if the reverse occurs i am still waiting for confirmation


>>438117
Dunno man, could be. I know it as a 1-2-3.

OP of those posts here, not sure if i will have same ID

>>437245

>trade on news
>into the trash it goes
only time ill trade on news in like a min trade this guy is dumb

>>438413
Great post.

>>438445
Great post too.

daily reminder to always buy penny stocks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmdDIwzIYUY

>>437075
>gambler - best possible career
Fixed that for you

>>438457
>there are day traders who are honestly advocating penny stocks
You guys know that it isn't really trading if you're just buying and holding an obvious pump and dump, right?

>>438445
this pic is on 4chan home page

>>438472
i hope you screen shot it for me

>dem feels

>>437535

How long have you been doing this? How much do you make per year?

>>437075
As someone who has gone retail to insto (trade for a firm), here are my thoughts:

>Pros
>-Pure merit based. You will generally get out what you put in
>-You are the customer. One of the only jobs in the world where everyday, people (brokers) try to suck your dick for commissions
>-Work where/when you want. Want to take 3 weeks off? Sure. (but if you're trading well you wont want to.)

>Cons
>-Hard as fuck to learn/master. Everyone thinks they're hot shit in a raging bull market.
>-imo unless you've lost your bankroll at least once, you havent REALLY learnt about risk management. Rare cases apply.
>-Killer stress. Even if you got an edge and you know it works, drawdowns WILL cause self-doubt/stress. "Markets can be irrational longer than you can stay solvent".

Happy to answer any other q's ppl may have. UK equities are boring as fuck tonight. And I just finished Transistor (Mad game.)

>>438502

Are you from London? I'm moving there sometime next year.

>>438480

I've been doing this since 2010, so 4 years, Been NEET from poor as fuck family and decided to do something with my life and there i started. Flushed my money twice, worked my ass hard as fuck to get a new capital, under table and shitty payed jobs. And about profit well, not as much as i'd like to but it's sufficient enough for me to live above average, travel to exotic destinations every once 3-4 months and simultaneously build a house. However there are still much to learn and space for improvements as there is space for more profit.

>>438502
>>438508
can a NEET like myself make over $100k a year as a retail trader?

I only have about $5k to invest, but lots of time

How does one actually get a job as a trader at a prop firm or HF?
How much can these people make after two or three years and what degree should I go for?
Will trading jobs become extinct in the coming years because of HFT and quants?
Are traders the guys who can overall make the most money in finance or is that brokers?

>>439117
>How does one actually get a job as a trader at a prop firm or HF?
an awesome track record is quite enough to get an interview ( at least 12- 18 months of nice performance, consistent reasonable profit + low drawdown). Although some good retail traders I know dislike trading for firms.
>How much can these people make after two or three years and what degree should I go for?
If you are good, the potential income is unlimited. Many good traders will eventually either retire early or start their own funds. You actually dont need a degree to trade, but most good traders have a strong math background. Good traders are very good at logic and strategy skills. After all, the job of a trader is to decide whether to buy or to sell.
>Will trading jobs become extinct in the coming years because of HFT and quants?
No, human traders always beat robots. One of the advantages of robots is the elimination of emotions when trading. But human traders have experience, intuition and reason skills.
>Are traders the guys who can overall make the most money in finance or is that brokers?
On average, brokers > traders because over 90% retail traders lose. But the top traders make crazy money.

>>439137
> track record

Different anon here. Are we talking alpha or Sharpe?

Been at it for long enough. Did fine last year if you adjust for the fact that I was heavy cash, but the fact that I was heavy cash was a mistake. Flat this year because high-beta shit ain't doing so well and am even heavier cash.

Adjusted for risk actually taken while keeping a shitload of dry powder, I'm OK with my own numbers, but if I were a 100% long mutual fund manager my investors would have abandoned me for an index ETF by now. (although even IWM is flat YTD as risk-off money goes into SPX. Fucking divergences, how do they work?)

>>439012
Uh you're not even going to make 2500 dollars a year with that capital retard

>>439316
Broker audited financial statements. Not just something you whipped up in excel based on questionable data.
They'll have their own measures (max dds, sharpe, etc)
Basically outperformance of the S&P500 is a good start (assume no leverage).

Having a lot of cash in a booming market is almost as bad as losing money. If they want low risk returns they go term deposit. It also implies lack of trade ideas/being wrong about the mkt and staying wrong (which is kinda like holding on to a bad trade)

Then again if its a HFT firm or a specialized HF they probably dont want retail traders, but someone with really specific niche knowledge. eg. spreading on Natural Gas futs during Tokyo hours

>>439012
Not even close. While its easier to make double digit returns on smaller capital base, you'll need at LEAST $500k to make $100k/yr day trading.
>>438504
Im in Aus but I trade all the markets (sleep is for losers). UK is a bit of a weird market, you have to get up early for the Asian close, then nothing happens till midday when the US eco figures come out, and then the US finally opens - Long hours, no boozy lunches

>>439343
Statements is OK. Wouldn't want to BS about that, like the idea that a firm will just take the trade record and make up its own mind.

Thanks for the reality check on risk assessment. (And for reading my mind about lack of ideas last year. That it was my first full time year doesn't excuse lack of ideas. For that matter, neither does this year's flatness and heavy cashness. Definitely retailish guy here, not algo/quant.)

So here's the big money question:
When will the UK raise their base rate of interest?
There's a loooooott of money to be made on that day, if you can figure out when it'll be, when does /biz/ think it'll be?
I think Feb 2015, perhaps March, going to put in a pending order with a high trigger and a huge tp to see if I can finally make some serious money off FX.

>>438286
Please explain the 'basically guaranteed profit'.
So you're saying if my stock goes down, I should just hold for months on end until it makes a profit?
1) Over those months you may exacerbate your loses through greed as the stock simply falls further
2) Think of the money you could make by investing that cash if it wasn't locked up in a falling stock

>>439012
Yeah you can, give it about 10 years of constant full time trading and you will eventually hit the mark.

>>439332
That's a lie, you can even go as high as 1000% a year it comes down to your ability, risk and stress resistance and IF your life depends on the income or not.

I personally know a person that managed to go 938% on spread trading in a single year with only 10000$ initial investment, though he had about 3 years trading experience and did it only for diversification purposes. He was definitely lucky but it's still possible.

>>439137
>an awesome track record
How am I supposed to build one if I have no starting money? I can't possibly be marketable by showing my results from demo accounts, can I?
What exactly do you mean by track record then?
>some good retail traders I know dislike trading for firms
So they trade independently, at home? That's much, much less lucrative though, right?
>the potential income is unlimited
At hedge funds or prop firms? Or is that irrelevant?
>You actually dont need a degree
If I apply for tom HFs/props they won't even ask for a degree? I thought only Ivy grads were competitive enough to get in.
>a strong math background
Is that something they actually ask for? I didn't study math, I'm currently doing econ. Am I fucked?
>logic and strategy skills
And can those be acquired without a highly quantitative degree?
>human traders always beat robots
So the job outlooks for the coming decades are interesting? It's worth it getting into trading in a few years?
>On average
How much can good brokers make? I don't know shit about sales, is there a specific path that I should get into if I have good people skills and want to make a lot of money (like everyone else, I know)?
>the top traders make crazy money
How much are we talking about? Not precisely, just a range. And are "top traders" geniuses, or is it an attainable goal?

>>437075
not trading crypto , not making 30% swing trades three times a day

>>439434
>How am I supposed to build one if I have no starting money? I can't possibly be marketable by showing my results from demo accounts, can I?
>What exactly do you mean by track record then?
Then you have to figure it out yourself. You need to have a track record of trading your own money ( balance of at least 100k USD preferable ) so other ppl would trust you with their money.

>So they trade independently, at home? That's much, much less lucrative though, right?
I personally know a guy, former Math Olympiad gold medal winner, who is making 100-300k/ month by trading his own money. And he told me he is just playing it safe. This guy doesnt trade for firms to keep his trading strategy a secret.
>If I apply for tom HFs/props they won't even ask for a degree? I thought only Ivy grads were competitive enough to get in.
I think you are talking about investment banks. Trading firm and funds care more about your trading performance than your degrees and connections.
>Is that something they actually ask for? I didn't study math, I'm currently doing econ. Am I fucked?
Most good traders I know have math, physics and engineering background. The econ guys are actually quite stupid with the market from my own experience. Econ guys usually know about marketing and PR and other social skill stuffs...
>So the job outlooks for the coming decades are interesting? It's worth it getting into trading in a few years?
Trading has been around for thousands of years and will always be there for other thousands of years
> How much can good brokers make?
IDK much about that but brokers make money from commission fees. And some brokers hedge against their clients because over 90% traders lose. Brokers are like casino and traders are gamblers.
>How much are we talking about? Not precisely, just a range.
I know 2 guys who make 7 figures a year from trading. One is a former Math Olympiad gold medal winner, one a former professional poker player. And yes, they both are very smart.

>>439445
here is a nice video about retail traders vs institutional traders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtCtGmDgSss

>>439434
>How am I supposed to build one if I have no starting money? I can't possibly be marketable by showing my results from demo accounts, can I?
Start small. $1k is enough. Just be consistent. The key here is showing good money management, good discipline, no tilting.
>So they trade independently, at home? That's much, much less lucrative though, right?
In general, yes. Firms just mean u have better access to capital (and ideas) which can make a huge diff
>At hedge funds or prop firms? Or is that irrelevant?
Irrelevant. You take home a % of what you make. HF's will pay a bit diff depending on type of fund - maybe a salary on top
>If I apply for tom HFs/props they won't even ask for a degree? I thought only Ivy grads were competitive enough to get in.
Again it depends. Quant shops will require it. May require maths/programming. I know a few will just look for talent and ignore all else, then teach you their methods. (Uni stuff is generally trash anyway, apart for the low level basics)
Also, econ is fine.
>So the job outlooks for the coming decades are interesting? It's worth it getting into trading in a few years?
Sure. Robots will always have their place, as will humans. Pic somewhat related
>How much can they make
Will be meaningless. Traders generally earn a %cut of what they make for the firm (or a %of pooled firm profit). Brokers earn a more fixed income + %of business they bring in.


>>439393
We're talking about consistency here. The 938% dude is probably taking on a crapton of risk and will hit risk of ruin in a few months/years.

>>439436
I reckons cryptos are great for trading. Sadly cashing in/out is a serious pain in the ass.
Plus the fact that liquidity can be very very shitty.
Lots of other systematic risks that keep a lot of 'investors' out

>>439445
>>439447
Thanks.

>you have to figure it out yourself
Post-graduation, I don't have a clue how I'm going to be marketable with a decent track record. I trade on demo accounts with money that doesn't exist, I don't trade my own money because I don't have any.
How do traders even get their jobs considering those requirements? Do they all come from rich backgrounds? I don't get it.

>former Math Olympiad gold medal winner
Shit, I'm nowhere near that good at mathematics. I mean I never took any serious classes. Pure math doesn't interest me at all and although I did really well in high school it always bored me.
Is being a beast at math an actual requirement to figuring out a successful and solid trading strategy like that guy you know?

What field of math is it about, really? Because if it's something very specific, I could maybe take classes, look into it, and see if I can apply it?

>care more about your trading performance than your degrees and connections
Meaning a philosophy major from UoNebraska with a very good track record will get the job over an MIT math grad who's got nothing else to show?

>Most good traders I know have math, physics and engineering background
>The econ guys are actually quite stupid with the market
Ugh. The thing is I'm not interested in any of these three subjects while finance does interest me. What about statistics?

>Brokers are like casino and traders are gamblers
Meaning brokers always win?

>one a former professional poker player
That's interesting because I got into pro poker playing a few weeks ago and my results are very promising thus far. What do you think makes a poker player a good fit for trading too?

>>439452
>Start small. $1k is enough
$1k after 100 trades of 4% (risking 2%) is $50,504.57.. of course you'll have setbacks, but since you'll be aiming to win twice what you lose, it should be achievable (more so when you learn to set your targets/move your stops better). After another 100 trades, it's $2,550,730.54. Assuming we're daytrading forex there, is that achieveable at all or just too much to ever hope for?

Obviously you're not going to just sit down, "learn" forex and do that, but I mean after you've got the hang of it and can win more than you lose (the 1:2 risk/reward ratio will help with that).

>>439454
> I trade on demo accounts with money that doesn't exist, I don't trade my own money because I don't have any
Trading demo is very different from real money trading. To trade other ppl's money, you have to show them you are able to handle and make profits of your own money first.

>Shit, I'm nowhere near that good at mathematics. I mean I never took any serious classes.
Trading is mostly about strategic, logical thinking and risk management.

>Meaning a philosophy major from UoNebraska with a very good track record will get the job over an MIT math grad who's got nothing else to show?
A good track record is the most important thing you should care about

>What about statistics?
Statistics is very important for trading

>Meaning brokers always win?
You trade the market not the broker. The brokers is just a medium man that offers trading services. Most good brokers want traders to win. Brokers are not to blame if you lose a trade.

>What do you think makes a poker player a good fit for trading too?
Emotion control and money management, the two most important factors when playing poker and trading.

>>439461
what it is like to be a full time trader, a nice video for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BESX2Yocn4

>>439461

>What do you think makes a poker player a good fit for trading too?
>Emotion control and money management, the two most important factors when playing poker and trading.

THIS. its all about expectancy and money management

>>439461
>strategic, logical thinking and risk management
So the guys you know who are into engineering, physics and math don't actually use any specific mathematical skills?
I'm just worried that, because I don't have a strongly quantitative background, I won't be able to develop a good trading strategy. I don't think I have the three skills you mentioned, not to an extent where I can actually apply them to trading and win.

>Statistics is very important
I still have the possibility of switching majors.
Do you think I should do stats, or at least try to minor in it? Would it give me the same skillset as math, eng or physics in your opinion?
I'm willing to work to get what I want, but doing something I'm clearly not interested in (physics/pure math/eng) isn't an option. I think stats, especially if directly applicable to trading, would be nice. What do you think, is it sufficiently rigorous and extensive?

>>439464
can't watch vids atm but thanks man

I started trading crypto currencies. It's the dream for penny stock day traders.

There is quiet a few exchanges these days. cryptsy, bter, bittrex, mintpal

>>439481
"Do it yourself, you lazy oaf etc.", but do you have any good guides/easy ways to get into it? I don't even know where you can get good (plottable) charts of this stuff.

>>439466
Bump

>>439466

you don't need an engineering or science degree to make money in stock trading.

many people in the hedge fund business have degrees from top schools but can they beat the s&p every year? nope.

interpreting stock charts, finding what trading style works best for you, managing your emotions when you make or lose money are far more important than any typical education you can get from going to college.

>>439724
>finding what trading style works best for you
How do I find out about the different trading strategies? And does it take a lot of skill to come up with my own strategy to make a lot of money?

>>439797

there is not just one right strategy. some guys make 20-30 trades a day, some make a few trades a week. some focus on a few indicators, some only look at price and volume. some mostly trade on the long side, some focus on shorting. some trade stocks, the others do options.

the best and quickest way to see for yourself is joining twitter and watching youtube. you can see how some traders do it. they post their profit/loss each day. some of them post charts. look at their old tweets. some have pay service but they post free videos on youtube to show you what goes into a trade.

>>439927
what I don't get about those guys is, why would they advertise their trades?

like, if I was making bank as a trader, I'd tell no one how I trade

>>439534
When people say do it yourself, we're not >implying you're a lazy oaf. We really mean it. What works for me might not work for another anon, and what works for him might not work for you.

Poker's a good model for traders in that you have to control risk and emotion. (The analogy breaks down in that there's usually a right and a wrong move to make in poker based on what cards have been dealt, and the actions of the other players. It also breaks down when you realize that at a poker table, the other players are your enemies. In the market, the other traders are neutral - they don't know what you're doing and they don't care.) Nevertheless, the way you learn how to play poker is you play lots of hands against lots of opponents and you either go broke or you develop a style that works. You learn to read your opponent and adjust your style accordingly. Etc... but there's no One True System(tm) for playing poker. Nor is there one for the market.

Anyone who tells you there's One Neat Trick to always beating the market is trying to sell you something. The day anyone develops a 100% guaranteed moneymaking system is the day it stops working because everybody else in the market will find its flaws and trade against it.

All I can say is read lots of charts. Make lots of your own predictions. Keep track of your own win/loss ratio and see if it gets better over time. You'll be wrong more often than you're right, so you *have* to make your mistakes cost less/cut losers short, and make up for those mistakes with the ones you got right/let winners run.

>>439930
>Not coming on /biz/ and other forums to go "Hey, it works, keep trying"
>Not starting up a poor /biz/raelis trading foundation with your taxes, giving a starting sum to "young entrepreneurs" (/biz/ posters) each year

>>439930
Effective strategies have a short lifespan and it's hard to find a new one. Samw with track records. Even if my strat gets me 20% I know it will blow up sooner or later. On the other hand, if I sell that performance while it's still good I can pivot to subscription revenues. When the strat backfires, I'm out of the market selling commentary. When market conditions return to what I need for my strat to work again, I trade and rebuild my track record, which I sell for more subscriptions. Etc. And I can "retire" to blogging whenever I want.

>>439930

there is not much downside (or upside) on advertising a trade unless it is for a thinly traded stock.

some people want to share their knowledge because they are simply nice. kind of like uploading and sharing movies. but some want to also make money by selling their service. if they are good, why not make another few thousands a month?

>>439935
I wasn't asking about chart reading and trading.

I know about that already, I was asking about how to find charts (and software) for crypto-coins. As someone trading them, I thought maybe you had some idea of it, rather than "there's this and that", because we both know that while there may be many options, most of the time they're no good and thus not a "real" option. That's why I asked for advice on where to begin.

Flash based charting is usually shit and doesn't work, for example, and these all seem flash-based, meaning I'll almost be better off just staring at tables of the raw bid/ask prices.

>>437075 how do you get those kickass charts and graphs on your desktop?

>>439944
And some people just want to illegally affect the stock via rumors.

>>439979
There's all sorts of expensive/subscription software for such things.

>>440222
Yep. I know a few of those guys. The SEC usually catches up with them eventually.

>>437075
>Cons: - If you are stupid, you're fucked
More like "if you even attempt retail trading, you're fucked". You do realize that like 99% of wannabe traders like you fail horribly?

>2014

daytrading

anyone playing around in TKMR? (Ebola drug)

20m float
30m traded friday, 10mil traded today. Looks like retail has been having lots of fun there...

Bought a few cheeky puts for a punt.