/biz/ - Business & Finance

No, because usually the burden of proof with the taxman lies on you, not them.

>>4337241
Are you retarded?
> lie and pay 20%
> be honest and don't pay 20%

> IRS contacts Coinbase
> Coinbase gives them your history
> They track every single transactions

>>4337241
>>delete Bittrex and Coinbase account once it's all out
depends on your country but they are committed to store yor financial data for n years based on local law

Can't you just say someone sent you some crypto and you cashed out?

>>4337264
I'm just wondering what to do if I want to cash out my crypto earned from questionable means (ETH gambling and the like). Should I just tell them I straight up got it from gambling on Ethereum gambling sites?

The IRS is the only US institution which will not be fucked with, ever. You know why Nixon stopped being President? Ultimately the IRS.

>>4337295
I agree, and I'm going to pay my taxes. I just don't want to get fucked in the ass

dont even use coinbase retard, sell them locally, slowly.

Why not just move to a country that doesn't have btc tax?

>>4337241
I honestly don't get why anyone in a country with capital gains tax would do crypto at all.

>>4337332
Because the US is so cucked that I would be required to pay taxes to them no matter where I am.

Just do bulk bitcoin atm withdrawals

>>4337366
Yeah, but I can't buy a house or car with cash without the IRS ramming my door down.

>>4337352
why do you difficulty understanding this?

>>4337278
>oh you mean these lambos, no sir some fucking guy just handed me a bag of cash and i bought them with that

does this mean i'm going to have to pay $400 for the $800 amount of BTC i sold on coinbase. 50% tax right?
murrica here

What if you take out the money in Singapore taxfree and put it into a haven?

>>4337462

It can't be that high?

>>4337472
Is this possible? I feel like the IRS would know and I'd be detained at the airport when coming back to the States.

Im pretty sure its treated as capital gains imat 15%. Also coinbase has a link for shit like this.

>>4337481

would not surprise me.
as self employed i end up paying basically 25% of my income to taxes.
pretty fair here.

>>4337241

I too would also like to understand Uncle Sam.

>>4337294
no dumbass they will take all your money that's like saying you made it selling drugs

>>4337241
Why not just use SALT?

>>4337321
Half the people on lbc are undercover feds and it's actually money laundering if they don't have a fucking quarter million dollar money transacting license

>>4337408
>first world problems

i can do with cash whatever i want :D

>>4337462
It's 0% if you make less than 35k a year and held it for one year. Google

>>4337355
Yup always have to catch myself before just saying "spend time abroad so you don't have to pay domestic taxes" but then remember how disgusting the US tax laws are.

If I ever make serious amounts from Crypto I'll spend a bit over 6 months out of the UK so I don't have to pay taxes when I cash out.

>>4337594
Or Maker-Dai when it come out next month. Fees will be hella low.

>>4337610
Get a 3D waifu and that’s 70k

>>4337241
The IRS has no where near the resources or man power to track down hundreds of thousands of people and pull transactions across multiple exchanges and wallets,many of which arent even US. Not to mention that a lot of wallets use dynamic addresses making it damn near impossible to track.

>>4337525
Can't speak for the US, but here in Australia you can only be taxed on capital gains that occur in a financial year where you're a tax resident of Australia. So if you migrate to singapore for a year (Legally, properly migrate, so you're considered a resident there for tax purposes) and cash out there, then the capital gains event didn't occur while you were considered a tax resident of your home country and as such, you shouldn't pay tax on it.

With that being said, the price of living in Singapore is so high that you'd honestly end up paying more to live there for a year than you would if you just paid your fucking taxes.

>>4337882
THAT'S NOT HOW THE IRS WORKS, MORON. IT GOES LIKE THIS:

>get huge crypto gains
>think you found the perfect way to avoid the tax man
>buy a lambo, go on an expensive vacation, etc.
>IRS instantly on your ass
>"sir, you mind explaining where you got the funds to afford your luxurious lifestyle? you don't exactly have the salary to afford all this"

>>4337241
>>4337352

these are people who are people on a "business" board fucking hell

>>4337917
what about new zealand anon

http://www.ird.govt.nz/yoursituation-nonres/move-nz/temp-tax-empt-foreign-inc.html?utm_source=newzealandnow.govt.nz

>>4337942
this. the problem is, as it always fucking has been, actually being able to use the money. if you only intend to spend it on banging hookers there isn't a problem which is why a lot of anons are 'getting away with it', literally nobody gives a shit that they got a new vidya before christmas. it becomes a problem when you want to go and buy a house yet on paper have no money.

>>4338468
From what I've read, New Zealand treat it crypto the same way they treat other taxable assets (such as property or gold bullion), in which case the tax you end up paying is slightly lower than Australian capital gains tax, but it's only a marginal difference.

But you can bet if Australia makes an actual, solid ruling about taxation of cryptocurrency, New Zealand will follow the same suit.

In the uk you can earn 11k a year capital gains without paying tax so it’s not an issue ,I’m waiting till bitcoin goes mainstream and I can pay with bitcoin for everything though

>>4337942
"That's none of your business."

>>4338533
What about buying a house in a foreign country? Let's say the Bahamas. It has no income taxes.

You could buy the house under an assumed name. Or you could buy it with an umbrella corporation so that it isn't officially yours.

Would this work?

>>4338533
yep...of course you could try something tedious as setting up a dummy company that handles a lot of hard cash, but the risk, time and money you have to put in there are absolutely not worth it. might as well just pay your taxes.

>>4338566
>how to get all your shit seized by the IRS in 2 seconds

>>4337241
>bounce the coins around a lot, maybe go through monero on some unregulated exchange like bitfinex
>THEN, cash out via Coinbase
>"mr taxman I got these bitcoins for free back in 2010 from a faucet"

Honestly, as long as you pay the CGT Mr Taxman is happy. It's mister AML/KYC that you have to worry about.

just thought of something, not exactly ethical, but WHAT IF you used the death of a family member as a cover for your crypto gains?

>inherit everything from your grandfather
>claim you found the private keys of a bitcoin wallet in his safe
>fund history is unclear, but your granfather is dead, so can't ask him, lol

What if you just pay your taxes?

I can understand if you live in commiefornia with there 40 percent, but I live in NC and its only like, 5 percent.

>>4338737

You still pay tax on inheritance. Not only that, but money appearing out of nowhere is suspicious, and they'll investigate and realize that you are registered on exchanges. If they really want to investigate it, they'll trace the blockchain transactions back to your exchange account and then you'll be in jail for fraud.

You could just, y'know, pay your fucking taxes

>>4338625
yeah except it doesn't do anything unless you move to the bahamas.

>>4337942
>get huge crypto gain
>just live like you always did but without that burden about money

solved

>>4338850
if you stop working and live the same as before they'll still come asking how you do it

Pfff pay your taxes lol. Capital gains are like 34% fixd where I live and unless you can prove you didn't mine them, boom 50% . Now thats taxes for you lol

>paying taxes on crypto gains

For real?

Not an issue in Australia.

>>4337573


Its not that hard. Uncle sam treats coins the same as shares. If you hold for a year gains are taxed at 15% if less than a year 25-30%.

Losses can be deducted up to $3000.

>>4338923
Everything is already overpriced, that's why

Never paid tax on my crypto earnings (20k+) how fucked am i?

>>4338906
>Pfff pay your taxes lol
no wonder you're living in a commie shit hole. what are you swedish?

>>4338960
You will end up in jail and get ass raped by Diego

>>4338819

They arent going to bother dicking with internet point exchanges. They will just look at the usd activity in your checking account. If you have huge tranfers in from coinbase you will havé to explain it.

>>4338819
>pay your fucking taxes
fuck off cuckboi don't you have school to be attending to?

I've made about 10k trading bitcoin and lost 3k trading equity derivatives. Will these short term Cap gains/losses offset each other for a 7k net gain? Or is crypto it's own category?

Thanks

>>4338554

11k for UK then it depends on your total income, so if you have earnings in the higher rate you'll end up paying 28%:

If I ever hit it big I'll just set up a kraken account in my girlfriend's name (Lithuanian) and withdraw to a Lithuanian bank account in euros since their CG rate is a flat 15% and I'd be pushed well into the higher rate in U.K.

I know in US, property-property transactions are taxable therefore crypto-crypto trades are also taxable, albeit hard to calculate.

This is correct, right? If I hold only alts on Bittrex for over a year, I am still taxed on those transactions is my portfolio value increases?

>>4339033
I'm just trying to help my fellow /biz/realites not get cucked by the IRS. The fact is, NOBODY on this board has the necessary knowledge, resources or legal power to evade the IRS. You're much better off actually paying your taxes.

>>4338923

Our view is that bitcoin is neither money nor a foreign currency, and the supply of bitcoin is not a financial supply for goods and services tax (GST) purposes. Bitcoin is, however, an asset for capital gains tax (CGT) purposes.

You need to keep the following records for bitcoin transactions:

the date of the transactions
the amount in Australian dollars (which can be taken from a reputable online exchange)
what the transaction was for
who the other party was (even if it’s just their bitcoin address).

>>4338923
Hahaha, oh god. It absolutely is an issue in Australia. You pay Capital Gains Tax and it gets added to your annual taxable income. Please do some research before you get yourself audited and thrown in jail.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-Australia---specifically-bitcoin/

>>4337662
In France if I ever make 1 million euros I will have to pay around 350-400k euros in taxes

And you're crying for 20% taxes

kek

>>4339161
i have no fucking idea how these goys think the conversation is going to go with the taxman, a few grand here and there they'll be fine but moon men are going to be turned to walking pink wojak if they refuse to wake up and get ahead of this shit

>>4339161

im pocketing the whole lot and they can get fucked.

jail isnt worth it man , pay the taxes

>>4339202

No shit lmao, I've only made 15k so far from crypto and I'm already dreading what's gonna happen in 7 months time when I need to file my tax return. Hopefully by then I will have made substantially more money and will be able to hire an actual accountant to handle it for me. Don't get pink wojak'd by the ATO, they take this shit fucking seriously and they won't give you a slap on the wrist just because you didn't know the law.

>>4339241
have an idea of your goals, study up the rules and speak to one, having clear ideas in mind might help you happen to wind up in more favorable positions at certain points in time

>>4339179
with 1 million why would you live in france? it's like you wanna get lynched by a bunch of commie subhuman poorfags.

renounce your citizenship and move somewhere your money is worth more and you are actually free

>paying taxes
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
*breathes*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

>>4338976
Tax fraud is federal prison which doesn't have diegos. Diego is in the state and county jail.

>>4339364
That's the plan, I've already been referred to a few local accountants who are well-educated when it comes to cryptocurrency, if my investment becomes substantial (At least 50k) I'll definitely be booking a meeting with one or two of them to, at the very least, set out my plans and ask them a few questions about how I can avoid being cucked by the taxman

>>4339431
See, I'm thinking about this. Looking to cash out about 500k dollars sometime soon, but don't want to pay taxes to my commie eurofag country. So what would happen if I transferred the money to my bank account prior to moving to the US, so the IRS just sees it as non-taxable capital entering the US and just never claim it with the Commie IRS? Would that work? Or do the Commie IRS and US IRS work together somehow to prevent this?

>>4338566
sauce plz

>>4338737
Now you have to pay the estate(death) taxes on it which are even higher.

>>4339482
This
Fed time may actually help you evade taxes

>in Canada only 50% of your capital gains are taxed
Nice.

>>4338938
Question not just from crypto but also stocks:

Does holding for a year mean not trading the actual stock or coin or does it mean not cashing out from the exchange? How does it work when I moved my coins from exchange get to exchange? Is it just the final transfer to USD in my bank that is considered when I stopped holding?

>>4339093
HR Block doesn't know shit on what to do about this when I ask. Sorry I don't have an elite tax man I'm new to this still

>>4339627
Most taxmen/accountants wouldn't be able to help you. I advise you to look around on google, local crypto communities (like facebook groups etc.) and find an accountant that has experience with crypto. They certainly exist, even if they're far and few, and because crypto is such a specialized request they'll usually include it something about it in their advertising online. You'd be better off looking for independent, accredited accountants rather than ones working for a large firm, since the solo accountants are more likely to diversify themselves into niches like crypto in order to stay ahead of the big firms.

>>4339613
The tax event happens on realization of the asset. Which means when you convert back to fiat.

>>4339524
First problem you will encounter is to pass the AML/KYC verifications when your bank will see a 500k transfer on your bank account. Then of course, they will alert the tax authorities, whether you live in commie land, on in the US.

>>4339524
They might pull a list of what assets you have to your name in your country. If you're reasonably rich then they might just let it go. If 500k in cash is way more than you look like you should own they will rat you out. The EU does the same for Americans.

I say this every time: Move to a fucking country without CGT. Also look into a tax avoidance (not evasion) lawyer/consultant.

>b-but I'm a burger
Renounce your citizenship, or pay the tax.

>>4339687
It's realized when its disposed of ie sold for fiat, lambo, link, whatever

>>4339687
>>4339753
>Which means when you convert back to fiat.
Technically this isn't true for crypto. Crypto is to be treated like property, according to the IRS, which means every single exchange trade is a taxable event.

It's fucking gay but it's true. Stocks are especially exempt from this but cryptos aren't yet.

>>4339867
Sorry - was talking about EU tax.

I have no idea how IRS is squeezing you out of your money - but taxing every single exchange trade is utterly retarded and I highly doubt structures with a lot of trade volume comply with this requirement.

>>4339897
same deal for ausfags, you report and pay CGT on the sum gain of all those trades, you keep the detailed records on hand for yourself and tax office if they ask for them

If an anon makes it, could he not set up an offshore account and send the money there?
Then go travelling/live abroad or do what ever rich people do?

>>4340114
this is tax evasion and is what nigger rich people do

>>4337241
Move to another country if your gainz are significant, if not, keep going with crypto until they are.

>>4340153

Need a good amount to make this worthwhile then.

Just pay your fucking taxes.

how do i avoid paying taxes on my crypto gains in europe?
will open an account in any eu country to avoid taxes
my country wants me to pay 30% tax on all profits

>>4339093
I'd like to pay my taxes but I have 500+ trades and have NO clue how to even begin... is there a "crypto taxes" guide? I seriously need to pay these taxes but I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DOOOOO

>>4340560
Get an accountant. If you've made substantial gains in crypto, you could easily afford a good, educated accountant to manage your tax for you.

>>4340594
It's all under $5k and I've lost significantly more than I've gained. I'm a true /biz/tard. That being said I cannot afford an accountant

>>4340610
You could sell it for cash on localethereum

>>4337241
>pump and dump some shit coin for profit
>exchange to monero
>literally never pay taxes

>>4339585
No you dont retard its called the estate tax for a reason if youre not rich enough to have estates (tens of millions of dollars btw) then you dont pay shit

>>4340884
It's actually $5.5 million of assets and cash.

>>4340940
Well if you have 5.5mio you actually should pay some taxes, don't you think so? After all, simply by dividends from basic investments you earn about 200k per year for doing absolutely nothing.

>>4340549
Something like moldova or montenegro if you want to take the risk

>>4340549
>move to a country without CGT
>stay there over 6 months so the CGT in your real country doesn't apply to you anymore
>cash out
>move back to your country

At least that's how many work, check with your own country's laws.

>>4340975
It's a death tax, they already paid taxes on that 5.5 million, it just gets taxes again when you pass it down.

>>4341268
thanks
i'll see about that probably
i know spain has around 20% if you can prove you've owned the coins for over a year
thats my fallback plan since i already have a spanish bank account for various reasons

>>4340975
>Well if you have 5.5mio you actually should pay some taxes, don't you think so?
Why?

>>4341268
Doesn't work in US. All foreign income (including capital gains) is taxable until you get the exception up to $100,000 after a full year in another country.

>>4338887
Not if you live with your parents

>>4337525
Anything is possible, just look at all the big companies starting shell companies in tax haven countries to avoid paying taxes, similarly in the future there would be accountants who deal with this kind of scenario and look for loopholes where you will be able to sell large amount of crypto and not pay any tax.

>>4339610
Is the rest of the 50% capital gains tax based on the income bracket that you fall in?

>>4337241
Coinbase and all of the other exchanges still have your information and can report you to the IRS at any moment if the tax man ever decides to demand it you absolute brainlet.

>>4337352
It seemed like a good idea at the time when I was given the option of which womb I wanted to be forced out of.

Would local bitcoin be a good way to avoid taxes?

>>4337241
its called CRYPTO currency

buy xmr you faggots

>>4337241
SEDM.ORG someone ought to tip me for just cluing you fags in, no need to become a sovereign citizen you just need to know the LAW,

>>4342927
Depends on whether or not you have to pay taxes in prison.

>>4341776
BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL OPERATING AS A PUBLIC OFFICE >USC 26 (a) 9,10,26

>>4341776
>Doesn't work in US
He specifically asked for European countries though.

>>4343065
>>4343013
If you're going to post lewd pictures at least have some taste.

>>4338715
> AML/KYC
Wassat?

>>4342955
Buying XMR doesn't erase all your trade records on coinbase and other exchanges.

>>4337481

It depends on how much you're pulling out and in what time scales. Long term capital gains for the top bracket is like, 20%. Really not that bad if you're a fucking millionaire. But if you're a fucking millionaire and you're pulling all your money out on a regular basis, it can be 40% as far as I know

>tfw Jew accountants
>tfw tell them about my crypto gainz
>pay your 15% goy
>but what if I used foreign exchanges
>they know
>what if I do private cashout
>they know
>but-
>they know goy. THEY KNOW

>>4343099
im trying

>>4340549
monaco, liechtenstein, andorra, san marino?

>>4340610
>I've lost significantly more than I've gained
than you dont have to pay taxes. taxes are on gains.

>>4339524
>moving to the US
Why would you do this?
Better move to some third world country where you don't have to pay taxes and live like a king.

>>4343502
Please stop trying. For example your last one has a passable face but her body is hipless and the ass she shows off is flat despite her trying her best to make it not appear so with the way she postures. She's basically what is referred to as a "slimfridge". This is a blue board. It's not for lewdposting. But if you're going to lewdpost, why, why this. Why. Just please stop.
Also,
>literal porn actors on a blue board.

JUST STOP WHY PLEASE STOP WHY NO STOP STOP AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH

>>4343567

Technically you do have to report losses.

NYC here, will taxes fuck me up the butt?

>>4344175

Yes. New York is insane.

>>4344175
you live to serve the state in that cuck shit hole

>>4344289
I can smell the flyover from here

>>4344266
>>4344289
how much we talking here? 5-10% is ok anything more and im gonna go ballistic

>>4344302
don't move here pls stay in your paradise

>>4337241
>paying taxes on crypto
Fucking lol.

Just...just put it in Tether or a foreign currency or some shit. Who the fuck cares?

so I've got a question. I calculated my tax obligation on http://bitcoin.tax

Depending on the accounting method I use, my tax liability greatly changes. With FIFO it's like $15,000 but with LIFO it's only about $5000. Can I just choose whichever accounting method I want (assuming I use the same method going forward)? I know that's how it works for business accounting purposes, but I don't know if it's the same for capital gains on property sales.

>>4338715
This might work.

Anyone else have any thoughts on it? It's not like they'd be able to track all that.

Not looking to hijack but some anons could give me some advice:

I'm disabled and I started trading crypto without thinking of the consequences at all about taxation or my disability check. I've only been doing it for a month now. Should I be quite worried?

>>4337259
This is what is wrong with the system. "Oh yes sir Mr big corporation! Very smart to park IP rights in another country! Yes very clever loophole you found there in our intentionally complex tax code. very smart to hire full time tax loophole jewrats. HEY GOY! PAY WHAT YOU OWE FROM THE STANDARD INCOME TAX TABLE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Of course this is the way of the world and these scams could not exist if everyone took advantage of it.

>>4344524
I think you'll be fine as long as you started with a small amount (under $5k)

So many cucks, newfags, altcoiners and redditors itt

If you legit think you should pay taxes on your crypto just off yourself

>>4344673
And what do you recommend, faggot?

Prison?

faggots, do we need to report to taxman only when we convert to fait right ? also lets say I put 10k in crypto this year. do we need inform in tax filing that I have investment in crypto ?

>>4344876
Move to Mexico and live like Pablo Escobar

>>4344882
wrong. you need to report every trade. each trade is considered a "sale" and you need to report the USD value at the time of the transaction.

>>4344928

Escobar lived in Colombia you faggot.

>>4344991
Did I say he didn't? You can live like Pablo Escobar anywhere

>>4341777
Checked

Just give the IRS dude an envelope with a private key and say now lets pretend we never met. Works everytime in Zimbabwe

>>4344978
Bullshit. Good fucking luck calculating every single trade. If they ask for your trade history they can sort it out, otherwise just pay on your profits in fiat.

>>4338819
I hate faggots who don't understand the implication
>haha just pay your taxes
No retard that's not the issue. The issue is finding every single fucking trade I made, logging the capital gains and every single microcent made in taxable income.

Ever stake a shitcoin? Those shitcoin were actually worth 10 nanocents, so you better log every staking event as taxable income.

By the way, the IRS doesn't think the time you spend doing this is tax deductable.

>>4344978
thanks, so most of my trades are in losses so far? so I can claim losses for this year right? but I have not converted them to fait yet

>>4345129
Here's a scenario.

>go to casino
>put $10 into a machine
>cash out $100
>$90 profit
>put $100 into new machine
>lose $90
>left with $10
>$90 not taxable

Same applies to crypto.

>"Wow I can't believe I just remembered my Brainwallet that I had 1000 BTC in from when I mined years ago, it's a miracle"

Or

>Trip to foreign country
>Buy expensive item (watch, etc)
>Fly back to home country with 12 watches on your wrist
>Sell them for cash
???
>Profit

You could even make more profit if you buy the right items

>>4345129

but I have not yet converted them to fiat, planning them to convert them in to fiat next year, but do we need to mention the initial investment in the tax filing ?

>>4345179
He's lying, first off. You don't pay taxes on every trade unless you just love to pay more than you owe. Secondly, you can only claim up to $3000 in taxes which is only a deduction of about $700 depending on your income percentage. So even if you lose $1000000, you can only claim $3000 of that to deduct $700.

>>4337241

Bittrex and Coinbase are US based and they only got their trading licences because of US securities

Just pay with cash as much as possible for things like groceries, etc. Then use your legit salary for expensive purchases

>>4345223
thanks, It makesense, but one more question, do we need to report initial investment during tax filing this year?

>>4339056
Luckily I only buy high and sell low so I won’t have to worry about paying taxes since I’ll never make gains

>>4345223
You're 100% wrong. Google it, moron. You have to report every single trade. Figuring out the cost basis is your responsibility, not the IRS's.

>>4345481
That's bullshit. Stop scaring people.

>>4345630
it's a fact. Each trade is a "taxable event" and has to be reported on your Schedule D. If you have a source that says otherwise, then let's see it.

I'm trying to help people not get raped by the IRS. Granted, it's unlikely that they'll come after you since crypto exchanges are unregulated and don't report to the IRS, but if you've made big gains off crypto, it's not improbable that they'll come after you at some point. Statue of limitations is 10 years for taxes, so even 10 years down the road they can kick down your door and haul you off for tax evasion. If, even years from now, they subpoena Bittrex and Poloniex you could get nabbed.

bittrex wont let you take your money out unless you give them your identification

sell your bitcoin locally with cash

get a lawyer to mediate

good luck

>>4345848
but not every trade is profitable. so essentially you have to report your losses too?

>>4340549

tfw dutchie

>>4339706
how do i get out of here?

>>4337454
kekking hard

>>4345882
Yes, and you can deduct your losses from your income up to $3000 per year (additional losses can be carried over to subsequent years)

Also, technically you're required to report any Bitcoin Cash or anything else you were airdropped as income, even if you don't sell. The IRS gets you coming and going.

oh, and one more thing. If you underpay your taxes during the tax year, you can be hit with a penalty. So let's say next year when calculating your cap gains you owe $5000 in capital gains taxes, but you didn't pay any of that during 2017. You'll be hit with an underpayment penalty. You're required to make estimated payments to the IRS during the tax year you earned the income. Which reminds me I'll need to send off my estimated payment soon.

>>4346284
i should remaind you that according to the government crypto is not a currency and the profits are only valid when they are liquidated

>>4346514
it's not a currency but it is property and it needs to be reported just like any other property. That means every exchange is a taxable event unless it's a "like kind", which crypto probably isn't (and even if it is it has to be reported)

>>4346553
Litecoin is a fork of Bitcoin, so wouldn't it be "like-kind"?
Same for Bitcoin Cash.

Basically, right now we are trying to apply archaic tax laws that never predicted a thing such a cryptocurrency. It's more likely there will be a revision of tax law to incorporate cryptocurrency and make it much easier to deal with tax wise.

>>4346553
so if you and me swapped chairs would that be considered an asset or a property?
according to my state laws its an asset

Can you fly under the radar if you only trade on decentralized exchanges like etherdelta ?

>>4346665
it doesn't matter that the laws are "archaic", until they're updated they still apply. And laws about property exchanges and airdrops are clear. They are taxable.

>>4346703
If the chairs you traded me had appreciated in value since you bought them, then yes, that's a capital gain.

From Wikipedia:
>A capital asset is defined to include property of any kind held by an assessee, whether connected with their business or profession or not connected with their business or profession. It includes all kinds of property, movable or immovable, tangible or intangible, fixed or circulating.

>>4337259
>not even true
working class mentality is your punishment

>>4339687
>not buying your house and car with bitpremier

>HUR DURR EVERY TRADE YOU MAKE NEEDS TO BE TAXED AND REPORTED WITH COMPLICATED EQUATIONS FOR 5 PAGES HURR DURR
because of fucking cucks like you the problem exists, if everyone showed a middle finger to mr IRS/whatever then they would HAVE to simplify the fucking rules unless you belive they would put thousands of neets to jail because
>HURR YOU DIDN'T REPORT YOUR SHITCOIN TRADE FOR 5 $ 7 MONTHS AGO DURRR
fucking idiots with cuck mentality

>These are the people making up a fucking business and fucking finance board
Holy shit

>>4347131
>fucking idiots with cuck mentality
it's not a cuck mentality. it's a "I don't want to go to prison" mentality

So if brokers make 100 trades a day they have to record every single one to exactly calculate the gains?

>>4347598
yes, but when you trade on a regulated exchange you usually get a 1099-B which has it all calculated out for you.

>>4347459
ok then if you don't want to go to prison I'm sure you know very well how to go about your taxes

example
>you 1buy btc at 5000
>you buy 1 btc worth of shitcoin
>meanwhile btc drops to 4000, then go up and down and up and down
>afer a few months you sell your shitcoin which is now worth 1.2 btc and this 1.2 btc is now worth 5000

so technically you gaines btc wise by trading the shitcoin but money-wise you didn't make shit
how do you pay taxes on that?
and if you don't what's the fucking point of reporting every trade?

>>4347661
There'd be no gain in that situation

Here's how you'd calculate it for tax purposes
1. Buy 1 BTC for $5000
2. Sell BTC for $5000 and buy $5000 worth of shitcoins
3. Sell shitcoins for $5000 and buy 1.2 BTC for $5000

Since you never sold at a gain, you wouldn't have to pay any taxes (in fact you might have a loss since you can deduct fees)

>>4347709
ok so if we only look at the sold amount of btc why do the previous shitcoin trades even matter? I mean I can give the fuckers the excel sheets from the exchanges to show them how I gained (IF) my btc but that's about it right?

>>4347748
look, just go to http://bitcoin.tax and import your transaction history from your exchange. it'll do all the calculations for you.

>>4341777
/thread

Can't get taxed if all you have are losses

I trade with algo bots and have at least a million small transactions in a year. Do I just give the taxman a giant fucking stack of papers?

WHAT THE FUCK BROS

>>4346797
I disagreee, there are much more wealthier people than me that have a lot more at stake here and will fight the IRS tooth and nail until satisfactory laws are established. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of tax holiday in regards to crypto after which the new laws apply.

Otherwise, what's stopping me from staking some worthless shitcoin and sending a 10000 Petabyte tax return that logs every single instance I've earned a nanocent?

>All these fucking brainlets

If you have a substantial amount of money to withdraw from crypto accounts, you open up a shell company in Panama, BVI or other jurisdictions where the tax rate on income generated outside of that jurisdiction is 0%.

Thousands of law firms specialize on doing this shit. You pay them a fee of something like $4000 to incorporate, and their firm acts as shareholders/CEO in order to anonymize. You are given power of attorney in order to control all the assets.

When you have incorporated, you use that company to open a corporate bank account in another nation with strict bank secrecy laws. Because again, in order to pay 0% in taxes the income must be generated in another nation than where the company is based. Then you withdraw all of the funds to corporate bank account, and you're free to control all of it using your online bank account or debit card.

Example for the extreme brainlets:
>Open company in Panama
>Make law firm act as shareholder/CEO
>Open corporate bank account in Cayman Islands
>Withdraw all funds from exchange to corporate bank account
>????
>Profit

>>4345188
>go to casino
>put $0.00000000000001
>cash out $0.00000000000002
>do this 5 quadrillion times
>irs wants this reported in pdf format

>>4347770
>http://bitcoin.tax
for free? then what? email it to trump?

>>4338566
it literally is their business.

>>4350166
And reading through this thread, one wouldn't fucking imagine that any of you dealt with cryptocurrencies. You literally have a teenagers perception of how money laundering works.

>DUUUUDE
>JUST GO INTO A CASINO WITH $100
>PLAY FOR $10
>WITHDRAW $90
>CLEAN MONEY

>>4350323
Re-read the post you're attempting to mock, you fucking brainlet

>>4350338
I've re-read it. >>4345188

Now what?

>>4350357
Okay, you're a fucking moron.

>DUUUDE IM SO SMART
>BUT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO PERFORM BASIC MATH
>I HAVE NO CONCEPT OF NET GAIN
>BUT I AM SO SMART DESPITE THE FACT THAT I AM LITERALLY AN ILLITERATE PRESUMPTUOUS PIECE OF SHIT

You guys are literally teenagers, huh. I'm so smart

>>4350380
I rest my fucking case, and deleted the detailed instructions for you how brainlets can easily and, if you put in a little bit of extra work, lawfully bypass the IRS.

Go right ahead with your brainlet money laundering schemes.

>>4350428
Not so fast, bucko
>>4350166

thank god im not american

>Buy 10 bitcoin for 10k. >Trade 10 bitcoin worth 7k each for ETH. > Dont cash out

> LOL YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON A "TAXABLE TRADE EVENT. YOU NOW OW THE IRS 30K AND YOU NEVER MADE ANY MONEY.

This is what alot of retards are saying here.

1. irs will only flag you for shit over 10k. below that they probably won't give a fuck.
2. the irs doesn't give a fuck about day trading. the faggot spamming this needs to off himself. they only care for when you are cashing out.
3. if you have substantial gains, you should look into hiring an accountant or other options to try to preserve as much as your gains as possible, because fuck the government.

>>4337295
Amazing, good advice on /biz/. OP listen, these humourless sadistic fucks will rape you if they find out about your schemes

>paying taxes

im new

can you just cash out incrementally to avoid high tax rates?

>>4350153
What? I'm not 100% on the situation in amerifat, but here we don't send every transaction every year, the same as we don't send them boxes of receipts every year, we report it and keep these documents for the day he decides to audit.

It is a legal requirement to be able to produce these, it is in our interests to be able to produce these, if we cannot it is pretty much automatic worst scenario applied on a take the money first just you fucking try and get it back basis. He is a business, he is earning interest on this money while you splutter about not fair. If you troll him with 10000 petabytes he will literally just advise you to go fuck yourself.

Most of the schemes I see on here
>i'll just say i found the money
>i'll just gift it to myself
>i'll just go to casino

It shows you neets really don't understand how this actually plays out. If he decides its a scheme your money is just taken, the bullshit logics you had in your head will be crushed so unbelievably quickly, in fact once you start having the conversation you won't even dare to bring it up realizing how hopeless it actually is, you will in fact revert to claiming ignorance, an unfair amount of tax will be taken from you and you'll just walk around a bitter whining wojak who got shredded by the man.

You faggots have been playing COD on christmas day but come tax time you will be up against top class navy seals with over 300 confirmed kills. Get ahead of it either legally, or making preparations for a commercial grade laundering scheme.

>>4337295
Best advice.
Do not fuck with the IRS.

>>4339202
I don't get it, don't you just declare it?

POWR's admin confirmed they are not the next PBC's pick.

Dump now before you get dumped on.

>>4353441
Fuck wrong post

If you have the cash to buy a house or Lambo, move the fuck out of the US and buy land somewhere that won't charge you a fortune in taxes and litigation.

>>4353552
What is he going to live in the Lambo?

>>4353923
Little lamborghini in the hollywood hills with only 47 BTC in my BCC account

>>4337462
that's correct. and coinbase is reporting all transactions directly to the IRS. file your taxes correctly this year or prepare your anal lube