/biz/ - Business & Finance

Because I'm technology illiterate and wouldn't know how to take proper care of my wallet without it ending up being hacked.

the only thing that is holding me back is the PLETHORA of solid investments I can be making that aren't stupid bullshit internet hacker coins

>>430854
>stupid bullshit internet hacker coins

You are one dumb motherfucker

daily reminder to get on the /biz/coin train before it leaves

we're almost on coins-e

>>418670

>>430845
because i'm too busy fighting for monopoly money to be accepted as legal tender.

>>430845
I own bitcoin, but I still think it is dumb to buy now. I don't sell, because I'm not sure if the exchange won't freeze my money and how to report these to IRS>

>the future of money
>private currency not backed by any government
>no central bank

Cool story bro

>>430919
Actually, there is something similar to a central bank in BTC. And that's the two wallets that hold 99.9% of all coins. But the enthusiasts don't seem to mind that.

>future of money
>you can generate it publicly


Hahahaha. Fuck you /biz/. It's like you don't know what"jews" are..........

>>430845
i'm with ya, bro. i got a few bitcoins stashed up my asshole. i got the wallet printed on my inner digestive tube, next to my anal orifice. nobody can get access to them unless they tear my flesh apart like a fucking quarter beef. bitcoin is the future and i'm the future too, me and my gun.

>>430845
>What's your excuse for being a nocoiner?
I have a bunch of them, already using it for some stuff.
> Haven't you realized by now this is the future of money?
As long as East Europe continues getting knee deep into this I'm the happiest bitcoiner around.

I'm afraid someone will hack my Coinbase account if I link it to my bank.

>>430919
That is the beauty of it, as most governments and bbanks are evil.

If you are an honest straight white man, it's clear by now that most governments and banks are fucking you six ways to sunday

That is the beauty of bitcoin

>>430921
uw0t

I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm a Bitcoin sceptic and have legitimately no idea what you're referring to.

>>430940
Why are you afraid of someone hacking your account? What the fuck.

>>430947
Sorry, I got it all wrong.

96% of addresses hold less than 1 BTC
only 2 addresses hold more than 100k, and that's far from 99.9% of all bitcoins, of course

But regardless, it's a pretty unbalanced system.

http://bitcoinrichlist.com/charts/bitcoin-distribution-by-address

Because I set up a Coinbase account and don't know how the fuck to do anything with it. I don't know how to mine, trade, or even win free bitcoins.

>>430944

The fact that banks are "evil" just plays to my argument - they're going to do all they can to eliminate the competition

Is Bitcoin-qt the best wallet?

>>430974
maybe if you aren't very technically inclined, but I recommend Armory over that one.

https://bitcoinhelp.net

Best site I've seen on bitcoin, and I've seen a lot of sites

op here, i have 18 buttcoins, is that considered a lot?

the most important question is :


is spending bitcoins retarded when u have the fiat to pay for something?

>>430961
i posted a link itt that explains everything about buttcoin

>>431059
well is it you fucking faggots?

>>430845
>Trading btc
>Not trading real stock market
pleb

>>431065
trading jew money is retardrd though

>>430928
of course you can generate it publicly...

>>430845
Because I'm poor as shit, I need to sell some guns.

>>431064
18 is a lot

>>431060
Not if it saves you money immediately, like if you get a discount for using Bitcoin. A transaction will cost $0.10 worth of Bitcoin or so, and there may be a 1% exchange fee.

>save money using bitcoin for the purchase
>buy replacement bitcoin

??profit??

>>431059
Give me one and I will tell you more, oh great wise master of /biz/.

>>430845
Pretty sure 1337coins are property and not liquid money

Aren't bitcoins like $600 to 1 right now? How are you supposed to make money off of that?

>>431210
... you don't have to buy an entire bitcoin. To the moon by 2017. I'm guessing at least 20,000 USD = 1 BTC

>>431216
>unlimited growth
I really doubt it. I'd think that most of the people making their money right now are buying altcoins that they think might have get any hype. Or people mining bitcoins, which seems more likely.

>>431217
I didn't say unlimited! I have researched the fuck out of Bitcoin's protocol, and all signs seem to point to bitcoin being at least as big of a paradigm shift as the internet itself.

Im really interested in it but I don't really understand it. I need to have it broken down barney style

>>431217
2017 the block reward halves.

>>431226
I made an explanation the other day on /biz/ and posted it in a couple threads. Here's the full text. It's kinda long, but I explained it in the simplest terms possible. It's just not easy to explain. If you have any questions, please reply.
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=HdhjyyH3

>>431236
sweet

>>431217
>>431236
To be fair I have no idea how to make money off of this damn thing. I have the wallet set up, just now what?

Should I mine bitcoins?

>>431226
No you don't, stop lying.

You always come here claiming you don't understand Bitcoin but you are naught more than liar!!! Try to waste my time eh goy?

>>431245
You won't make much mining Bitcoin, ASICs have been used to replace traditional PC mining, they are specialized pieces of hardware.

The integrity of the network now depends on groups of miners buying specialized hardware to keep the network distributed.

Oh well.

If you want some bitcoin you will need to exchange a local currency for them, assuming you are in America you can set up a coinbase or cryptsy account and exchange US dollars for Bitcoin.

The exchanges are cocksuckers about it like most bank based trading platforms, it will take you at least 3 days to set up an account to buy buttcoins with and get it approved. (Much like adding a new brokerage service)

It could be due to fraud concerns or US PATRIOT act requirements, since chargebacks are possible with credit cards they undertake risk exchanging Bitcoins for your US dollars.

>>431257
How is one supposed to buy altcoins?

>>431257
KYC limitations.

>>431259
Don't. They are doomed to fail. And they are far more risky than bitcoin.

But if you insist, buy some bitcoin, and trade bitcoin for alts.

>>430872

I'm sorry but I don't think a bitcoin clone based on a 4chan board will get very far.

>>430845
I invest in silver.
Enjoy exchanging pixels on a screen after an emp

>>432155
you might have a leg to stand on if you said gold... or table salt, or fresh water.

but really? silver? retard.

>>431859
That's what they said about Doge.

>>430845
Do you want to know what the future of money is? Money. And Bitcoin will never be actual money. Sorry for the bluntness, retards.

>>430872
100% Proof of Stake limited to 100 million with only 8.5 million in current supply. Free give away every 24 hours:
http://162.243.243.10/Bizdice/

>>432181
Doge has an active community

I have no excuse, because I'm not

>>431236

Actually looking closer to march 2016 with the fact that hashing power continues to increase which decreases the time between halving as blocks are found faster than expected

>>432837
True dat yo

because I'm female/technologically illerate/underage

what would make kids need this

>>430845
>buttcoin
>future of money
>ever
This is what neckbeards actually believe!

>>433400
does anyone have that buttcoin jew scheme pic?

>implying bitcoin is just p2p encryption and authentication

This isn't the future of currency, it's the future of telecommunication.

>>433400
>>433400


Buttcoiners are hilarious in general. Lack of understanding of Economics, Finance, or even basic Network Security.

>>433484
>"Nocoiners are hilarious in general. Lack of understanding of Economics, Finance, or even basic Network Security".
fix'd

Here's my concern with this... So, the miners basically just brute force hex codes until one is entered that the Bitcoin server acknowledges as a match. Then, new currency is entered in the system.

So what guarantees this to be blind on the Bitcoin server side? What stops the founders from having some big list of these hex codes set aside? If it were me, I would set aside such a list, not/sparsely use it for the first few years (So the coins gain legitimacy and the value of the coins reaches a decently high level, as it has). Then, with all these new bitcoins, I would liquidate my supply all at once through as many different brokerages as possible. By the time the market has had a chance to respond to the glut in supply by the currency's value tanking the next day, I would be half way to the Caymans....

So how are you Bitcoin fanatics sure that something like this isn't going to happen?

>>433543

I would read some more on what mining is, and does.

What determines a hash's validity is not determined until the block is being put together.

That is, the contents of the block itself determines what hash will be valid, and there is no way to have determined this ahead of time because there is a shitload of random addresses, amounts, and a timestamp that all get rolled into the hash.

Also, there is no "server side". The nodes verifying the blockchain is everyone who runs a wallet daemon.

>>433585
> there is a shitload of random addresses, amounts, ...

Sounds like layers of obscurity to make it more difficult for people to truly assess what is going on behind the scenes. This raises red flags to me in a world post-Mortgage Backed Security world where financial engineers made the derivatives too complex to be understood by 95% of the investors.

If you were the guy who programmed all this shit, you would know exactly how all of these random pieces of data (addresses, amounts, timestamps) all fit together in the greater scheme and how to exploit it. It doesn't matter if it's physically done thru some server interaction or on a P2P level with the wallet daemon. The people who set this up know EXACTLY how this works and everybody else has a vague understanding.

You're telling me that you still feel secure with this asymetric info situation?

>>433611
actually yeah because it has been open source for a long time now.

http://www.koreatimesus.com/?p=15660

Hanyang becomes the first South Korean university to accept bitcoins

>>433611
Then you have no idea how hashing algorithms work. SHA256 wasn't invented just for bitcoin.

>>430845

I owned some when it was volatile early this year but cashed out. It seems more respectable now but if I wanted shit hits the fan money then I'd probably get USD before BTC

>>433611
Because all the code is open source, and the blockchain is fully available to everyone. The system could not function without it all being public.

When I say "random" i mean "indeterministic". It is no more random than the contents of a ACH batch from an ODFI to the Fed. There will be account numbers, and transaction amounts, and probably some header info too (like a timestamp). All of this is sure to be there, but exactly which account numbers and transaction amounts will populate that file on any given day cannot be known ahead of time, because it is aggregate data populated from the systems use by the public.

Nobody could have known I was going to send some bitcoin today.

Nobody could have known what my address was before I sent it, since I generated my address myself.

Nobody knows how much I was going to send.

Nobody knows the destination address before I send it.

Now take my transaction, collect it with a handful of others and we have some completely unique data.

The hash product of data prior to hashing it is unknowable. Likewise, hashing cannot be performed in reverse. This is the basis for all electronic encryption schemes known to mankind and is a fundamental law of mathematics.

What you are proposing sir is simply not possible, and my verification for it being such is visible right in the source code of the wallet software we all run.

You don't have to trust anyone but yourself with bitcoin. Not the developers, not Coinbase, not Bitstamp, nobody. Period. That also means you have no one to call when you fuck your own shit up or send coins to an address that doesn't exist. Level 99 personal responsibility.

>>433543
>I would liquidate my supply all at once through as many different brokerages as possible. By the time the market has had a chance to respond to the glut in supply by the currency's value tanking the next day
um that's not how a market works, the orders to buy are already placed and you fill them. if you fill tons of buy orders at once you will be digging into lower prices while you sell and clipping your own profits tremendously.

>>433611
>>433816

In case I did not make it clear, every last single "shitload of random addresses, amounts, ..." is also public, you can trace the existence of each bitcoin from it's inception address to it's current holder and every hand inbetween. This is a fundamental feature of the system.

>>433806
in what SHTF scenario does the dollar hold its value?

More like: future of "how Tokugawa and I get payed after sending thirty R34's to a South African oligarch for his son's birthday party".

>>431242
i zoned out after the first paragraph

>>430845
the bubble burst months ago

bitcoin is a useful tool but I don't have any use for it

Is it worth investing in it as well as owning actual BTCs

>>434028
I wouldn't buy as an investment. But if you want to use it to buy stuff online and have no other means then go ahead.

it's better to see it as a social experiment.

>>434025
>implying there has only been one bubble
>implying there won't be another

>>434028
if you wanna be rich, then own BTC

>>434376
This

>>430845
because I'm not an easily swayed idiot

>but look at the prices!

there's been hundreds of thousands of booms and busts throughout the years and everyone involved them has been a complete and total retard. its great that people can make money speculating but you're delusional if you think BTC is the "future" of anything.

>>432181
Doge was based on a meme, biz coin..not so much

>>434032
At this point, you might as well invest in stock.

If bitcoin does become a mass influence within itself (more so then it is now), then expect a good amount of raise. But in reality this is just what neets and neckbeards do.

>>434588
Valid argument, however:

The volatility allows for greater potential profits/more opportunities to make profit (and risk i suppose)

The exchange fees are literally less than a penny per trade (0.5%, that's *0.005), making it easier to make profits and less hurtful to make mistakes

The barrier to entry is also far, far lower (you can get started with even $100, where stocks/forex needs 10k-25k or you're wasting your time)

24/7 Market. I am asleep most of the NY Session. I can hunt for possible openings literally whenever I feel like it. (I can see people not enjoying this fact however)

I do wish to get into stocks or maybe forex at some point, but I don't have the cash sitting around to start that yet.

>>434606
>risky
>lower fees
Sounds a lot like penny stocks.

>>430845
I will tell you why, because bitcoin will only be as good as long as there is an infrastructure to support it. I don't see a day that goes by anymore without seeing people worrying about EMPs, or seeing the name Carrington pop up in the mainstream news.

I refuse to invest in BTC and crypto-currency. I have been investing in hard assets, from repurposing vintage electronics to recycling modern electronics for the precious materials. Also obtaining the knowledge and skills necessary to harness raw electricity when when we get knocked back into the stone age by such an event.

There is a reason the Russian military never abandoned the vacuum tube like the west did 30 years ago, as they soon discovered that tubes can survive an EMP of a nuclear test.

There is a reason why Amateur Radio Operators still use tubes remembering "when all else fails, Amateur Radio works".

Bitcoin is doomed to fail, its only a question of when.

- I prefer cash and gold
- The jewish bankers are more reliable than the jewish strangers on the internet IMO
- I dont trust anything from the internet

>What's your excuse for being a nocoiner?
The fact that it's neckbeard dweebs like this running the exchanges >>434723

I've spent $81,000 buying bitcoins in the last four months.

>>434764
good for you

>>434764
Ouch. Sorry to hear that, bro. I guess you didn't get the memo.

>>430845
I dont understand where to start or how it works

>>430845
lol I remember when bitcoins were a thing. Whole /pol/ and /biz/ was full of those threads.

It's like you want to be poor, /biz/. You are still on time to be a pioneer. How many times do you need to miss the boat tho?

>>430952
>it's a pretty unbalanced system.
Just like life itself. That doesn't mean it isn't more just than our current joke of a monetary system.
You are still on time to be a pioneer. Pioneers ALWAYS get rewarded greatly. This will be like this forever.

>>430972
You cannot eliminate Bitcoin. You would need to arrest every person running it. Even if you closed the internet (absurd) there are powerful enough people in Bitcoin to lanch satelites and start their own internet to keep Bitcoin alive.

>>434725
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74924.0

No coiners don't have a clue what they are talking about.

>>434725
>implying tubes can't be fried from overvolting the antenna

You are a complete moron. The Internet was designed to withstand nuclear weapons. You seriously think your sci-fi fantasy of an EMP will happen? An EMP that large cannot happen, and if it does, the rest of the traditional finance system would go down too. Also it would probably kill everyone.

>>435397
This is the most likely threat of such a scenario

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

but i agree nothing short of global apocalypse like the above can shut down BTC

>>434897
>>435397
>>435463
lmao. No need to destroy Bitcoin. It is already starting to fade into obscurity. It's been more than half a year since it was relevant.

>>431859
>>432181
you fucks realize /g/ made most of doge software. The fucking creators are just lucky they made a shitload, too bad they wont be able to maintain the software

>>432828
*had

>>434894
lmao at the scale of that chart trying to hide how fucking volatile bitcoin is.

>>435537
bitcoin regularly has boom and bust cycles. there was a ~18 month wasteland after the june 2011 peak where everyone thought it was dead too

overall it's still adhering very well to a long term exponential growth trend line, right now we're dipping beneath a bit as we've done many times before. the fundamentals are all just getting better and better.

all it takes is one big news story (like paypal incorporating it, which the CEO has said they intend to do) to bring in some more newbies and give the price a bump, which gets everyone else horny in expectation for another bubble which leads to more buying, plus feedback loop effects (when the price rises miners sell less bitcoin to break even with their electricity costs, even more media attention due to the price growing, etc), then fear of missing out kicks in and everyone loses their collective shit and the price grows unsustainably to 5-10x whatever it was before, until the bubble inevitably collapses crashes to roughly half the peak and the market enters a bear phase for the better part of a year. confidence is low for a while, but eventually it comes back and everything repeats

i don't have a clue how to do it?

>>435589

Or alternatively paypal/facebook/google realise that they could make their own crypto and the money/hype floods to the one with the corporate backing while bitcoin ends up as nothing.

Honestly I have around $7,000 in bitcoin but it's mostly just because I can't be arsed moving it out of there.

>>435589
>the fundamentals are all just getting better and better
The fundamentals are still the same. Just like tulips, beanie babies, housing markets, dotcom boom, all of them are speculative bubbles. What do speculative bubbles do? They pop. Which is what happened to Bitcoin after the huge boom last December. The bad news since then has crushed investor confidence (MtGox, China bans, new regulations out of NY, threat of 51% attacks, Overstock acceptance not having any effect on value, etc.) It will have to take a miracle to even hit that $1100 peak again. It is a misnomer to label the Bitcoin trend as "exponential growth" because it is an absolute impossibility for Bitcoin to grow indefinitely.

>>435553
a linear scale would make the first 4 bubbles look like a flat line. that would be a useless graph. Log scale lets you see the % gain/loss more comparitively. come back and have your opinion after college

>>435627
tulips are not scarce. this analogy doesn't work at all. BTC has had several bubbles which have all popped.


FYI, the 51% nonsense is all FUD. Relentless calls to action/possible solutions by /r/bitcoin with 0% discussion on "what does a 51% actually DO". basically the crypto version of feminisim

>>435672
>BTC has had several bubbles which have all popped.
So you think the bubbles are just going to get bigger and bigger indefinitely? The biggest flaw with this train of thinking is one word "exergy". If the price was to go up to $1,000 again for an entire year, $1.3 billion worth will be spent in mining costs and processing transactions. To put this in perspective Visa's capital expenditures this last year is estimated to be about $400m. With Bitcoins transaction volume being less than a fraction of a percent of that of Visa yet almost double their expenditures at the $1000 price, this would make any serious growth for Bitcoin unsustainable. Since the actual "buyers" of Bitcoin are mostly speculators I can't see billions of dollars expended on mining costs towards a volatile commodity in which the entire market has the possibility of collapsing at any time pursuant to the inclinations and fears of a relatively small community. Considering that about 100 addresses control a fourth of all bitcoins, this is a serious concern.

Daily reminder that Autismcoin is only a few days away

>>435589
>dat wishful thinking

>>435589
Legit. How many times do the dumbos in here have to miss the boat to get in tho? just lol.

>>434606
The 24/7 market is theoretically correct, but considering one needs sleep and there are different timezones around you will be missing a good portion of openings. Chinese markets used to be as big as other markets if I remember correctly, but I do recall that whenever they woke up waves were made that a person wouldn't be able to deal with until several hours later which is obviously too late.

I stopped doing that a long while ago, all I do now is just mine new altcoins on their inception and trade them in for Bitcoin when I have a good sizeable amount. It's an easier time to see whether someone makes a thread about a new coin within 24 hours than it is to monitor buy/sell traffic every other couple of hours.

>>434728
Do you really think you're any smarter than a bitcoiner? and I'm saying this impartially... I don't own any coins. But srs.

>paper money
>near useless metal with intrinsic value
the jews trained you good.

>>435787
>all this broscience

>>433484

The funny thing is that buttcoins are more stable than the debt based jew scam we currently exchange under. At least buttcoins are based off of something and the people controlling it can't just simply print off 600trillion shekels worth when ever they feel like it.

Future crypto currencies will be completely decentralized to remove the manipulating merchant entirely.

>>433806

>the burgerstan monopoly money will keep it's artificial value

>>434896
>pioneers always get rewarded greatly
citation needed

>>435787
>So you think the bubbles are just going to get bigger and bigger indefinitely?
no, at some point we will hit a hard correction not unlike the housing market/dotcom, but that's not soon (and not now). Get scared when BTC becomes as popular as flipping houses was circa 2004. It is still too hard to use to become that popular.

Plenty of people made bank on the housing crash too. Nothing wrong with bubbles popping unless you are in last/not prepared

Where are you getting your costs from? Mining costs are based on difficulty and has nothing to do with transaction volume or price of the coin, though price and difficulty often correlate somewhat

>>436365
>Future crypto currencies will be completely decentralized to remove the manipulating merchant entirely.

citation needed

I've been interested in cryptocurrencies for quite some time but there seems to be a major flaw that hinders their success and hasn't been taken care of:

How do you acquire them with governnments/banks taking a hostile stand agianst crypotcurrencies? Mining doesn't seem to be an option for bitcoin anymore since it is centralized as fuck and the only profit is made by those that design the asics.

>>436391
>no, at some point we will hit a hard correction not unlike the housing market/dotcom, but that's not soon (and not now).
What makes you think the hard correction did not already happen last December? What do you base that on?

>Mining costs are based on difficulty and has nothing to do with transaction volume or price of the coin, though price and difficulty often correlate somewhat
No. Statistically the the logistical cost of running Bitcoin rises linearly with its total value and I will explain why.Once a Bitcoin reaches a certain price more and more people try to hash blocks with more and more available computing resource until breakeven equilibrium is reached where the costs of mining meet (and sometimes exceed) the price of a bitcoin. ASICs changed the mining game for Bitcoin but even though they are more efficient, they do not reduce energy use towards the Bitcoin network, because the number of ASIC setups increases to rise to the profitability limit.

>>436539
>What makes you think the hard correction did not already happen last December? What do you base that on?

Obviously I must be being somewhat subjective in this assessment. Here's my rationale:

1. Thinking around the dot-com bubble, this was when we got understandings like "your business MUST have a website, even if you don't know what the content is- just get involved". Around the housing bubble, "flipping houses" was THE way to get rich, and everybody knew it. I don't think we've come to this sort of frenzy yet. I'll become concerned when I see cardboard cutouts of bitcoin outside shops in the mall, and when we are seeing companies like bitpay/coinbase popping up 3/day.

2. The december correction was similar in size to the previous bubble pops. We've hit really hard support in the 550-580 area, the only dip below this being MtGox. There's a massive triangle forming all the way from the start of the December bubble and should it break to the downside it would mean prices all the way down to the ~$150 range which I don't believe the market is psychologically capable of reaching at this point

3. We're still on a really steep part of the mining reward halving schedule, supply will continue to drop sharply for a long time to come

>because the number of ASIC setups increases to rise to the profitability limit

I see what you mean, but then the problem becomes comparing visa's overhead to BTC, when we should really be comparing BTC's overhead to something more like the federal reserve (including personnel), because BTC performs functions similar to the fed and visa cannot exist without the fed's support system, so the true cost of sending money via visa network is hidden.

>>436601
>I see what you mean, but then the problem becomes comparing visa's overhead to BTC, when we should really be comparing BTC's overhead to something more like the federal reserve (including personnel)
I was actually being gracious when I compared Bitcoin overhead to Visa and not to the Fed. If you make a comparison with Bitcoins capital expenditures (at the price point of $1000/year) to the Fed's yearly expenditures (including total expenditures and personnel, not just those which create future benefits), Bitcoin is already approaching that of the Fed. The Federal Reserve total expenses last year were around $5 billion, and if we use the previous estimate of $1.3 billion for Bitcoin at the sustained $1000 price for a year, that means that the Fed expenses only outweighs Bitcoin by 4 to 1. Lets consider the total volume of transactions that the Fed does daily and compare it to Bitcoin when Bitcoin was at the $1000 price (to be fair to Bitcoin):

>In December Bitcoin hit $70 million in transaction volume in a day
>In December the Fed was doing on average $3.1 trillion in transaction volume a day

That means that the Fed was doing about 44,000 times the volume that Bitcoin was doing back in December when Bitcoin was at the $1000 price and also the peak of its transaction volume, yet at the $1000 price point already reaches about 1/4 of the Feds total expenditures. This in itself shows that the Bitcoin network is incredible expensive and inefficient as a payment rail.

just spent 4 days getting $80 into my btc wallet with an unverified paypal, and it turns out I need $5 more for shipping.

I don't want to go through the whole process again, so I'll pay $10 Paypal to anyone who's willing to send me $5 of btc.

shoot me an email (mine's a throwaway), or post skype.

>>436688
The Bitcoin network is incredible expensive and inefficient as a payment rail

This is pretty bad news for anyone trying to mine for profit, but just because the hashrate has kept pace with (or exceeded, like you said) the price, it does't mean this will continue forever, or linearly. Higher BTC prices do not mandate a high difficulty to be secure or sustained or anything else. If at some point the cost of global mining becomes just too much to sustain, or there is some kind of energy crisis, the low margin miners can go offline, the hashrate drop, and barring the almost-certain FUD that would surround that event, the price could go on rising as there is no technological correlation between price & hashrate.

I own like 0.15 BTC.

What's the max value this is likely to be worth if I hold onto it? Speculatively.

>>436729
BTC on its own has no way of going up, as it has already played out its advantages and is on a downward spiral.

I'll buy it off of you though, I'm this guy ;)
>>436689

>>436710
>Higher BTC prices do not mandate a high difficulty to be secure or sustained or anything else
The point that I am trying to make is that this is exactly the case. Higher BTC prices drive more miners and more resources towards Bitcoin mining and thus difficulty increases to handle the latest chips. Miners use profitability calculations in order to stay ahead of the curve. The Chinese have the greatest edge in mining because of cloned and counterfeit chips and the lower costs of manufacturing and energy in China. At this time half of all mining is done there and 90% of all ASICs chips are made in Taiwan. Even mining pools in the US are finding it harder and harder to compete and some are operating at a loss hoping that Bitcoins will eventually appreciate in value leading to an over-securing of the network and extra inefficiencies. With miners always calculating profitability, the price of Bitcoin will always have an equilibrium with the actual energy (and capital) expended to secure it.

>This is pretty bad news for anyone trying to mine for profit
Not necessarily. The larger companies like Bitfury (who built a 20MW power plant near Russia specifically for cloud mining) and those mining pools in China and India who can cut costs on energy and hardware will still pull a profit but all of the operating expenses are passed along and priced in to the cost of BTC. As the mining difficulty increases due to these huge operations the energy expended towards one Bitcoin will still scale relative to price. At what point the energy expended becomes unsustainable is debatable but there has to be a tipping point.

>>430845
I'll buy bitcoins when I want to use them, like with any other currency.

Buying them because 'they will go up' is retarded. The shit may not even exist in 5 years.

>>433816
>Level 99 personal responsibility.
Most people don't want this much responsibility. Forcing everyone to do so is probably inefficient. Accidents do happen and you need a way to correct them.

>>436365
And you will require a chip embedded in your hand to be able to trade your BTC.

>>436765
When I say "mandate" I mean that there is no technological basis for the hashrate with regards to the price. Like, "we cannot pass $1200 without xyz hashrate to support it". It doesn't NEED that extra security just because the price goes up, the hashrate follows the price, not the other way around. Should the hashrate fall behind the price dramatically, it makes no difference to the network or security.

>Not necessarily. The larger companies like Bitfury
Well yeah the real winners in this whole game are the infrastructure providers, mining rig manufacturers, pools, etc.

>At what point the energy expended becomes unsustainable is debatable but there has to be a tipping point.
Agreed, but my point is that since the energy is not REQUIRED in order to reach $X, that "peak mining" being reached won't damage the coin itself (though the price is likely to drop with panic like gox/chinabans). In fact the system was designed to reach and maintain that "peak mining" equilibrium. Mining was intended to only occur in places with cheap power.

>>436689

What process did you use? I need $60 in bitcoins asap without a cc/dc or a bank account.

>>436961
I bought SLL coins off of virwox (need verified paypal), and sold sll for btc.

lost $20 of $100 in fees and bs.

>>436965

How'd you do it with an unverified PayPal?

>>436920
>Should the hashrate fall behind the price dramatically, it makes no difference to the network or security.
True. Price has outpaced network costs and broken the linear correlation many times before but inevitably capital expenditures catch up with price and equilibrium is restored. Obviously you still have to take into account the hardware costs but this is tapering off as ASICs reach their limitations and mining profitability will be strictly based off of energy arbitrage within a couple years tops. This isn't an issue of a security deficiency as to why the energy costs rise with the price but rather because of blossoming competition as miners seek to stay ahead of the curve and remain profitable. More efficient mining chips does not reduce energy use of the Bitcoin network, it only raises the network difficulty.

>but my point is that since the energy is not REQUIRED
While it is not required that energy consumption rises with the price, it still is a byproduct of the Bitcoin ecosystem. To remove the correlation between the two you would have to remove the profitability of mining.

God last fall I was making so much from arbitrage.

>Wait until the Chinese are asleep
>Prices go down on BTC-E
>Buy Bitcoins at $600-800 per
>Transfer BTC out of BTC-E
>Sell on MtGox for $1,000-1,400 on the same day
>Wait too many goddamn weeks for my funds to transfer back to me

The wait was a pain in the ass, but it was some easy money.

It's about as valuable as selling and buying gold in an MMO. Sure, if you know what you're doing, you can buy low and sell high to a sucker. However, bitcoin will never take off as a real live currency.

>>437055
>Citation Needed

>>436242
at least the dollars and euros and other currencies are backed up by governments with a lot of soldiers and gun and tanks and battleships.

What you buttcoiners have to back up your virtual currency?
> inb4 muh internet

>>437048
>To remove the correlation between the two you would have to remove the profitability of mining.

Should happen on it's own by 2020 or so maybe? I agree with you on the efficient chips only raising the hashrate though.

What the fucks going on with SaveCoin?

>>437068
2020? For when mining becomes unprofitable? Hard to say. Depends how many people are still hoarding at that time, really. If people aren't hoarding then it depends on what triggered the sell-off. Too many variables between now and then.

>>437106
Manipulation. Every once in a while an altcoin pops up on coinmarketcap in the top 5 but the easy way to tell if it is bogus is to look at the 24 hour trade volume. If the trade volume is low then the marketcap isn't realistic and being held by very thin threads.

>>437106
holy fuck why i always miss these kill me

>>437062
Why do you need to back up something undestructible.

>>437451
indestructable? Again, bitcoin is only as useful as long as there is an infrastructure and electricity to support it. Take away either and your bitcoin will evaporate into thin air.

>>437519
That's stupid because civilization would end if something like that happens (just lol at global electricity shutdown)

op here, i made this thread like 5 days ago and was drunk as fuck

i still havt read a good excuse yet for being nocoinsandmad

op here, i just bought some more butt coin miners off egay.

ill have over 1 TH/sec soon

as a side note,, if u spend ur butts on drugs, ull regret it when butt is $10,000 for one butt

>>438050
Is mining profitable? I want bitcoins really bad. I only have 1 btc

>>430845

I finally into crypto shekels.

I wanted to get into them sooner(2012-2013) but I missed the mining boat and couldn't mine with my GPU for some gay reason so I abandoned them. Didn't have any way to pay for some coins online either.

I have a /biz/ and a NXT wallet. Going to deposit some cheques tomorrow and then bank transfer like $30 to buy some coins.

If they don't go anywhere, it isn't that big of a loss. But I think they have some potential.