/biz/ - Business & Finance

china govt controls over 50% of mining power.
maxis are deluded.

Deluded yes, but will they make a lot of money regardless by just mindlessly DCAing and holding? Yes.

>>29938032
>>29938062
Depends how you see it.

Stock perspective:
Who knows who owns the 18m coins?

Flow perspective:
China gets 50%+ of 3m/21m coins

It’s the safest crytpo investment strategy for people who don’t want to think about their portfolio ever. More risk = more gains tho

Im a BTC maxi.

But Im only all in on BTC because I have a inheritance in the future which is my fall back.

I have a feeling BTC will goto $0, or it will grow so big that it will make my inheritance seem like chump change.

Im ok with everything I put in BTC going to $0, if it means I have a chance of it going so big that my inheritance gets dwarfed by it.

Maybe its not a 100% smart idea to all in BTC if you have absolutely zero safety net to fall back on like I do.

>>29938032
>Who is ever going to take out a 10 year BTC denominated loan?

That is the point. Why would you want loans to be taken out in bitcoin? Are you thinking of a fractional reserve system? That massively inflates the supply of a currency, which is inflationary. The valuable part of bitcoin is that your share can't be diluted.

>>29938032
It's a store of value. Doesn't give you a return, but it keeps gaining value against fiat. In that sense, i'm also a maxi. Basically, anything that saves you from fiat is a good idea.

>>29938361
All the maxi's that I have talked to, always end up talking about how hyperbitcoinization is inevitable. In such a scenario, it would have to become THE dominant asset.

If you want to have an economy (and a society) of any kind, you are going to have the need for people to borrow money feasibly. Bitcoin seems like a terrible asset for this.

>>29938523

You can still loan bitcoin, the difference is, bitcoin's inflation rate is effectively near 0%, so you actually have to loan it to someone for them to invest in something that would be productive / produce value. Bitcoin loans for businesses would make sense - in the end, when speculation is over, bitcoin's effective deflation will be around 2-4% probably (population growth + productivity improvements), so it would be profitable to loan bitcoin to anyone who could better allocate capital to more productive businesses than you can.

It wouldn't make sense to loan bitcoin to anyone with a pulse to spend on cars, big screen TVs, phones, or houses. Which is a good thing.

>>29938032
>tfw starving but don't buy food because dem
der bitcorns only go up
>die

btc maxis understand it's a grand game

every year the difficulty goes up, every year the number of mineable coins goes down, every year some wallets are lost forever, every year another group of people hear about this blockchain technology, and every year fiat currrency inflates a little bit more
people jerk off to these pie-in-the-sky projects and fad following developers that invent problems that are solved by their solutions, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is Bitcoin came first

>>29938494
BTC does give you a return.

Deluded, but I understand the ones who have held since 2013 and made massive gains. When you make gains on something, it's only natural you become a shill.

The ones who bought a little and all of a sudden think they are an expert are for sure deluded.

>>29938032
>Who is ever going to take out a 10 year BTC denominated loan? That would be stupid?
Yes, but they might take out a 10 year BSV loan. You gotta remember that eventually Bitcoin will stabilize and the ability to profit from just hodling it won't exist anymore because everything is already using it.

>>29939103
No, it doesn't. It doesn't pay dividends, like a stock. It's like Gold. Sure, there's a hundred different ways to generate passive income now, but it's not the same thing as revenue from stocks.

Based retard buys Bitcoin stock cause they saw a Coinbase ad on Facebook.
Midwit sees altcoin with big numbers and buys altcoin.
300 IQ understands macroeconomics, zooms out and buys Bitcoin.

>>29938032
The only crypto that matters is the one with the highest rate of adoption. Everything else is a shell game to get more of the primary currency.

>>29939371
BTC isn't a primary currency, its a primary trading pair.

>>29938866
Right. But that would also force the entire world to existing under a paradigm of deflation, where the name of the game, is to accumulate BTC.

People need goods and services, they need to borrow money for houses and cars. All 'investments' won't necessarily produce value in a monetary sense, but in a broader sense, felt at a societal level.

Oversimplified: If people don't have cars, they can't get to work - and the productive output of society lessens.

>>29939507
>Oversimplified: If people don't have cars, they can't get to work - and the productive output of society lessens.

Guess the employer will need to pay people more to make it worth coming in to work

>>29938184
i have a similar situation except I am smarter than you because im diversified. same principle still applies

BTC
XMR
UNI
that's all you need

>>29939651
Why would I need to diversify when my inheritance fall back is diversified?

>>29939507

Why do people "need" to borrow for houses and cars? If mortgages didn't exist, houses would be 1/10th the price. If car loans didn't exist, cars would actually be designed to be economical, and not widely over engineered and expense to sell financing.

I'd say the vast majority of loans these days don't produce anything of value, and all the paper pusher working loan are a complete waste of a workforce.

It’s also the comfiest hold; you don’t need to do any research or think about competitors, or wonder if your coin isn’t going to join the graveyard of 2017 shitcoins.
Every paycheck, you buy BTC.

>>29939863
because you would make more money if you had other cryptos also.

>>29939942
Yeah but that would take actual effort, why bother when I can just buy BTC and put it into cold storage and just wait it out?

>>29939912
no every paycheck you should be buying VTSAX. Bitcoin will be broken by quantum computers. you are silly for thinking its a "comfy hold" its actually an obsolete shitcoin

>>29940027
It is simple to protect BTC from QC.

The only reason why it hasn't been done yet is because QC is not a imminent threat. Its something that is 10-20 or more years away.

>>29940162
DYOR. just owning BTC is not as safe as maxis want you to think. Utility = value. Utility will win and bitcoin will die a slow death as maxis keep DCAing in.

>>29938032
200iq

>>29938032
Maximalists are lazy high-midwits; smart enough to understand Bitcoin's place relative to legacy SoV, too dumb and arrogant to understand or profit from complementary blockchain based businesses that, by economic necessity, don't use bitcoin as their base unit of equity (dex tokens, decentralized banks, oracle networks etc). Maxis are the boomers of blockchain.

>>29939868
I'm not entirely convinced that the hedonistic want for "more" won't just push through to different arenas, where lending and borrowing will be relevant (and where it will still have a potential effect on productive outcome).

>>29940328
Image is pure cancer and I hate BTC maxis.

>>29940162
Quantum computers are fantasy akin to ftl or free energy ask a physicist

>>29940416

Well right now, real inflation is close to 10%, while risk free return from cash is almost 0%. So if you have money you can make loans, and only get say 10% nominal returns (90% of real value), then you're "profitable." Then if you're rich or politically connected, like a big bank, you can just get leverage on that and have guaranteed profit. While the government bails you out if anything goes wrong, and guarantees the currency will deflate too.

Now imagine, in BTC world, all of a sudden it doesn't make sense to loan some random Joe 5 times his gross income, denominated in deflationary BTC, to go bid up houses and cars, forcing other people have to get loans from you to compete to afford them as well. Because none of those people are going to be able to pay you back, and the government can't bail you out. Now your money has to be loaned to people who actually have plans to create businesses or create something of value if you ever want to make money loaning it.

Its not that random people will still want to take on massive debt and squander it, its that people with capital will actually be incentivized to use it in productive ways.

the only thing giving crypto value is digital scarcity. bitcoin is the only scarce cryptocurrency, by definition. there are an infinite number of alts, and they all compete on tech, bitcoin is the only money. alts are fine mid term, long term bitcoin wins, or crypto fails altogether,

>>29941036
100% spot on analysis and it’s the same conclusion I came to.

>>29939507
Buying the car to get to work is the investment then...

If You wanted to borrow 1 btc, so you can get to your job that pays 1.5btc a year.... You'd get a 1btc loan...and happily pay intrest so you could start working now.

So it Is a productive purchase.

>>29938032
There was no premine and or little decentralisation when Satoshi send thouthands of BTC to his buddies Hal Finney & Co.
But today all other projects which do it similar are scams.
Can't make such stuff up even if you try.

>>29941017
I understand your argument - and I understood it the first time as well. The problem with this world is (again), that it effectively eliminates things that ultimately facilitate productivity?

>>29938062
>>29938114
>>29939106
You had 10 years

>>29939507
Gold and index funds already exist and deflate.
Yet somehow the world hasn't ceased to work.

>>29941478
This is the case, because we have global reserve currencies that we rely on for day-to-day transactions. Hyperbitcoinization does not assume this, as far as I know.

>>29938032
chinacoin is retarded as a currency. It's just a way for the rich to get even more of your cuck money.

>>29938032
Both. A lot of people are incredibly smart in the crypto space.

A lot of people are moving to proof of stake platforms. However, this is only a small percentage and we're on point to continue the uptrend.

I also have HUGE ada "bags" I bought in March. I am not a maxie, but true maxies were doing this shit when I was paying off college. Smarter than me, as well, but I may be more rich than 2015-beyond maxies.

>>29938494
>It's a store of value.
It's actually what would be considered a high risk speculation if you compare its substantial volatility to other financial instruments and the massive amount of leverage propping up its value. Unlike with traditional investments people in large numbers are regularly betting on BTC with 100X leverage and when most of your investment's value is made out of ridiculous leveraged bets that means you aren't standing on firm ground.
It's kind of funny since a stock with that much volatility would be considered abnormally high risk, so really you could invest in the market and get the same expectation in the long run of significant returns, only even moreso and with lower risk in the case of sane and stable picks like a basic market tracking index fund, blue chip dividend paying investments, tech stocks, etc.
Bitcoin is a great idea and I imagine we'll see decentralized finance continue to grow and transform into bigger and better things, but if you're just trying to make money you'd be better off either going full high risk pump and dump on Indian scam coins or else going moderately conservative and using real market investments with better risk / reward profiles.

>>29942033
Its not a volatile asset. It goes up and down, quite wildly, but algorithmic models exist to predict it's trajectory. Just wait 4 years, or 210,000 mined blocks, and throw all your money into it. Sell when algorithmic models are broken by the FOMO.

I am doing well understanding this since 2016.

>>29942150
Leveraged trading is degenerate gambling and I got into Bitcoin to avoid derivatives and other random bullshit. Going that route is for absolute morons and idiots.

>>29942150
>It goes up and down, quite wildly, but algorithmic models exist to predict it's trajectory. Just wait 4 years, or 210,000 mined blocks, and throw all your money into it.
The same is true for the stock market except even moreso. DCA into boring basic blue chip stocks and a couple index funds and you will end up getting returns ona long enough temporal horizon.
>>29942200
>Leveraged trading is degenerate gambling and I got into Bitcoin to avoid derivatives and other random bullshit.
Yeah, but even though you aren't doing leveraged trading BTC's value is largely propped up by leveraged trading.

>>29938184
Shut the fuck up hypernigger and stop gloating, Inheritance probably about 200K fucking chump change

>>29941560
Well, i think bitcoin taking over literally everything is obviously nonsense. Nothing is risk free and people will always diversify and simply want other things. A rich bitcoin whale will invest in a flying car company because they want flying cars to exist. It will be a large asset class, maybe bigger than gold, but won't be everything.
Even if btc took over the dollar, it will eventually stabilise at a low deflation rate and so loans will be possible.
And until it does stabilise, it will keep bubbling like currently and nobody will use it day to day because normies want security of not losing 50% overnight.
"Hyperbitcoinization" involving people fleeing other assets into bitcoin basically describes a massive speculative bubble and there will be a horrible crash afterwards.

>>29941155
See, no one in their right mind would want to do that, since BTC is deflationary.

Let's say, you'd get maybe 10 or 15 years to pay that loan back. The amount of purchasing power you are giving up for that car, is insane.

Hence my original point, BTC can't be the endgame in my view, since we can't preserve purchasing power in single units.

>>29942896
The way I understand it, is that "Hyperbitcoinization" will have taken place when it is THE dominant asset.

And at that point, how can any inflationary asset exist next to it? Game theory would suggest, that these would be inflated to the skies, at this point?

>>29938871
But unironically

>>29943093
Inflationary assets such as the dollar will have a hard time existing, certainly, and i think that's the main thesis of hyperbitcoinization. That it will eat national currencies .
But other fixed supply assets such as stocks will exist and compete in my opinion.
And everyone always wants to consoom, i.e. spend their coin.

>>29938032
POW doesn't guarantee fair participatio/distribution. All it does is guarantee that the ASIC manufacturers get the right to decide who gets to transact. (ie, get the privilege of adding the next block).

Why is that fair?

That's your first problem. Next, the 160 quintillion hashes a second wastes a shitton of energy. With proof of stake, you can avoid all of that, and essentially still have the same game-theoretic trust system, except you've cut out the ASIC manufacturers.

Its really quite simple. The problem is, the miner propaganda has been strong.

>>29943093
What if someone just fork BTC to start fresh but with a lower total supply? Why would people not eventually dump BTC to go into that?

>>29938032
I am a maxi and I am both deluded and 200 IQ.
>>29938184
All in btc is the safest possible bet in crypto.

>>29939262
Put your BTC in a proper savings account like BlockFi or Celsius.

>>29938032
It's gold.

>>29943093
Every fiat currency in history is gone now, because inevitably they get debased.

Gold has remained as money for thousands of years however.

>>29938032
if you don't see it. look harder.

>>29940328
>token
>dollar pegged coin
lmao
>You load sixteen tons, what do you get
>Another day older and deeper in debt
>Saint Peter don’t you call me ’cause I can’t go
>I owe my soul to the company store

>>29943868
>Why is that fair?

It's fair in the sense that there was no pre-mine. No predetermined allocation.

>>29943887
Some people do? But generally, the narrative that BTC has first-mover advantage, is a strong one.

>>29943999
Sure, but where is the currency that I can safely have all my loans and contracts denominated in? It doesen't really exist in that world.

>>29943999
This basically
Imagine if the dollar was still gold backed; that's what bitcoin can be.
Did loans exist when the dollar was gold backed? I don't know my history, but i expect they did.
Loans of gold surely existed too.
We're in a crazy btc growth era, but that will eventually end and it will gain some stability and will reach single digit deflation

it's the same arguments against btc day after day, week after week, year after year...
>what if another, better crypto comes along???
never happened, looks less and less likely as time goes on.
>what if the government bans it????
never happened, looks less and less likely as time goes on.
>but what about the energy wasted to mine it???
miners continually push towards using clean and or wasted energy for mining operations, getting more and more efficient year after year.
it's all so tiresome. you had 10 years. you lost. buy bitcoin or continue to lose.

>>29944223
It's bitcoin, but only after the massive growth phase is finished

>>29943887
>What if someone just fork BTC to start fresh but with a lower total supply? Why would people not eventually dump BTC to go into that?
and give 99% of all bitcoins to the chinese instead of a lot less?

>>29944290
No. because Bitcoin is deflationary, and BTC will be lost or made unretrievable as time goes on. It becomes scarcer and scarcer on paper, until the end of time.

You are taking huge risks, is you obligate yourself to the future fulfillment of such an asset.

>>29944163
If Jihan Wu was ordered by the CCP to wreck BTC right now, it would happen.
>>29944295
China already runs the show for SHA256 mining.

>>29944452
>China already runs the show for SHA256 mining.
but they were late to the game, if its reset now chinese will have a much, much larger share of the reset coints because they have so much hardware standing by to get a head start on everyone else, no deal, also, why shouldn't you benefit if you bought into bitcoin very early on 10 years ago?

>>29944286
None of these were my concerns. My concern is, that the deflationary nature of BTC simply doesen't fit the model of a currency, that would benefit the productivity of society at large.

I'm not saying that Bitcoin isn't valuable, or that it is useless. Let me be clear. Bitcoin is probably one of the most valuable you ever have the chance to own.

But as a currency; As a tool for a society - it is only half of the solution. We need something to denominate long-term obligations in, that does not carry the same volatility in its price.

>>29944541
>why shouldn't you benefit if you bought into bitcoin very early on 10 years ago?
Well then why shouldn't someone benefit from buying a new fork that has a smaller total supply and upgraded features?

>>29944630
>upgraded features
>china
burn it with fire

>>29944666
If the Chinese want to fuck you over, they can and will. Now if you're saying you trust them to not fuck you over then fine.

If maxis were so smart they would at least trade shit coins to to maximize wealth even if at the end of the day they turn profits into btc

>>29944725
>If the Chinese want to fuck you over, they can and will.
>so you should just go along with whatever they ask
that fucking ultracuck Truman should've let McArthur nuke China

>>29944163
>"the narrative"
this is why maxis are retarded. they will be on something else in a few years just give it time.

>>29944406
The loan the normie takes out is deflationary from their perspective due to interest.
If you are saying bitcoin will be high risk because the deflation is unknown, then there will be agreements to limit the risk and loans won't happen purely denominated in btc and so hyperbitcoinization hasn't occurred under that scenario

>>29944874
I tried to tell a bunch of them to buy calls on MSTR when they announced their BTC policy and they just acted retarded. Then when I told them to buy puts they said "Have fun staying poor". Stupidest shit ever.

>>29944962
>this is why maxis are retarded. they will be on something else in a few years just give it time.
My "portfolio" only consists of bitcoin wallets and my initial investment value has increased by 17000%

>>29943868
POS guarantees centralization.
How the person with the most money controls the network because they get the most stakes.
So many coins got 61% attacked that were POS in 2017.

Add in a developer pre-mine which almost all POS systems have and the devs control the coin forever.

>>29945206
typos bleh

>>29944994
Let me try asking you a question instead: Are you of the opinion, that the entire economy of lending and borrowing will disappear, with the eventual departure of inflatable currencies?

What is the next step?

>>29945428
if you start a bank and an investment company the bank can bankroll the investment company with money thats in reality just altered numbers in computer memory and boom you have hundreds of millions to billions funnymoney USD or EUR to invest in crypto

>>29945551
WHO WANTS A TRILLION DOLLAR LOAN FIRST? 1000 YEAR REPAYMENT PLAN

>>29944874
What makes you think they don't?

Everytime people come out of here using words like "maximalist" as an insult and trying to push alternative bitcoin frauds like BSV and BCH, BTC goes on a bull run. It's happened pretty much every year.

>>29945723
I am pushing none of these, and the word maximalist is not as insult. Not now, and not in my OP.

some are one some are the other. you'll never know who it is.
now watch what happens to them when you tell them they can get their BTC rocks off in defi through the BOR tunnel.
it's hilarious

>>29945723
Every time Michael Saylor comes up with a new pump and dump for his meme stock, it crashes by 99.9%

>>29938032
OP needs to do more research.
I'll give keywords:
> pristine collateral
> network effects
> hard money

>>29938032
>BTC denominated loans
in maxiland once the value stabilizes it wouldn't be the worst idea, but in general your mindset should be instead "why would anyone need to take out a loan in the first place".

fix the money and the overlords who control it and prosperity actually goes to its propagators, not its masters. we're so used to loans and debt being the only solution to capital due to how fucked our money is that we literally can't imagine normal people accumulating enough wealth to do shit anymore.

>>29939371
based

>>29939477
>its a trading pair and not money
literal retardation

>>29938137
its the only safe cryptocurrency strategy because its the only cryptocurrency strategy. everything else is a scam or a distraction delaying the inevitable.

>>29939262
>hurr durr doesn't pay dividends
why the fuck does this matter?
imagine if built into every gold bar there was a magic gold teleportation spell that allowed you to instantly send that gold into a secure vault of any other person in the world with the press of a button. this would make gold infinitely more valuable not only as a store of value but as a means of transacting/currency. that's bitcoin. tada!

>>29940328
>utility = value
no, adoption = value. the USD in comparison has absolute shit utility, but since it's widely accepted, it remains our money. BTC also just so happens to have astronomical levels of developer support and innovation that it is making shitcoins obsolete by the day. ETH, XRP, Monero, any other speedcoin or privatecoin you can imagine, all soon to be obsolete and will bow before the only true cryptocurrency.

>>29940383
You're conflating cryptocurrencies with blockchain tools. They are different. The term maximalist refers to someone who believe bitcoin will become the new global CURRENCY standard, not that it will be the only blockchain service to ever have utility.
>midwit
lol. ok edgelord.

>>29940423
ngmi

Say you got 10,000 USD to invest in BTC or ETH

>Option 1
10k in BTC
>Option 2
10k in ETH
>Option 3
5k in BTC, 5K in ETH

Which one do you pick?

>>29945915
>why would anyone need to take out a loan in the first place

Loans make a lot of sense, especially if you take that loan and use it to generate even more value. However, I'd even argue that a borrowing for a house or land (even if not directly productive) is still a critical necessity.

It becomes exponentially more risky to do this in "maxiland" since BTC is volatile in unpredictable ways.

>>29946079
Option1
Eth is going to blow up

but I'd do 90% in BTC 10% in BSV as insurance

>>29941036
I swear to god 9/10 of you cryptokiddies have no concept of what cryptocurrency can actually do let alone why it has value. fucking scrubs.

>>29941286
because it was literally the first of its kind. it had to be tested and used somehow to get the concept across.

>>29941478
you can't buy bread and milk with your index funds.

>>29942200
based, but unfortunately there are now deriv markets for btc and every other shitcoin you can imagine. it's getting real fucky.

>>29943093
>>29943850
there would be no reason to have inflationary assets or even inflation in general. we'd look back on it and laugh at how retarded our predecessors were for thinking that was a good idea.

>>29943868
fair participation and distribution isn't the problem bitcoin solves.
energy consumption is astronomically less than current monetary systems.
thank u, next.

>>29943923
bitcoin literally is a proper savings account in and of itself you mushbrain

>>29938032
I'm 90% btc 10% xmr does that make me a maxi?

>>29939262
Okay but compared to an ETF for example, you need a gigantic amount of money put down just for a dividend to really make any sort of big enough difference to your income.

With BTC you can buy low, put all your savings it it, then cash out on a high and make more than you ever did in a stock paying a dividend - OR you can go max on BTC and hold.

>>29939987
I put all my BTC on Gemini Earn. Stacking sats for free. I still have a trezor set up in case I need to withdraw everything.

>>29942033
Anons have used the word “fleeting store of value” which helps explain the speculation aspect to low IQ retards. They understand money flows in/out of BTC (core) but don’t understand the creation of wealth via shitcoins and altcoins move the price more than retail FOMO.
>BTC does store value
>but only for as long as institutions / miners are willing to park their funds their
>market movers want to cash out?
>value outflows deflating the asset

>>29945915
BTC is literally crashing after massive corporate purchases. China can literally crush any corporation that is "all in" on btc.

>>29938062

Kys scammer

>>29946399
you know the stock market "crashed" harder than btc did last week right?

>China
will continue to own us if we don't get the fuck out of USD and our shitforbrains government who is selling us out to them.

>>29938032
>BTC still seems like a terrible unit of account, because of its deflationary nature?

Anon.. you’re so close to seeing the light

>>29946399
>BTC is literally crashing

>>29946079

Do you want to hold real actual scarce money or shitcoins? Your choice.

>>29938032
Maxi’s are delusional because they don’t understand the first thing about the tech let alone the origin vision for the project.
>200iq tho because if the bankers “win” the crypto culture war (and their batting average is pretty damn good) they’ll come out handsomely on the other side

>>29946908
hahahaha omg anon... i feel bad for your parents.

>>29946079
Honestly?
2 ETH under $1400 — $2.8k
.1 BTC under $50k — $5k
4-5 XMR — $800-1k
7 BSV — $1.2k

This would be a long term HODL and you’d cost average into BTC / XMR / BSV with a 5-10 year timeframe in mind.
>Hope this helps

>>29946823
BTC isn't money though

>>29947005
Don’t worry about me fren been in the game since 2011
>dat sweet sweet $5 BTC

>>29938032
>>29938523
>>29939507
Anon what you seem to envision is exactly what already exists, Ampleforth

AMPL can be used as a unit of account. Unlike bitcoin due to it’s volatility. Another thing to consider is that although the value of this token is pegged to the price of a 2019 dollar, it is not in fact a stablecoin. The Federal Reserve has done studies on it and this is the conclusion they came to. This means that it will not fall under the many stablecoin regulations that are coming down the pipeline.
Because it does have a tendency to remain at a value of around $1 2019 and will only have more price stability as it’s marketcap increases, it would work great for the cryoto lending market. DeFi cannot truly be decentralized if it is denominated in fiat money under the control of governments and central banks.

In one year’s time this coin will be listed on every centralized exchange and will be available to lend and borrow from on COMP and AAVE. Even if the fundamental case is incorrect, these developments are inevitable and at the very least these platforms will experiment with it.

>>29947095
I'll buy all your BTC at fair market value right now for legal tender international reserve currency units

>>29947164
That still doesn't make it money

>>29947104
>image thats been reposted 100x
>lies on the internet
ngmi

>>29940328
LOLOLOLOL XMR is not useless, it has utility numb nuts. it;s how derka derka dave pays neo nazi nick for heroin.

>>29946215
yes

>>29947214
ok I give you one extra dollar for every BTC over market price

>>29947144
This is interesting. How centralized is it?

>>29947241
That’s because I posted it.
>tineye them anon

>>29947241
>>29947393
Zzz

>>29947393
>>29947431
pisses me off some druggies became millionaires out of this

>>29947278
Still wouldn't make it money. Why buy BTC when you could just buy MSTR call options if you think the price is going up?

>>29947463
Many people are millionaires because of drugs.
Watch some drug documentaries on Florida in the 1980s.
4th tier bag movers were buying entire subdivisions to bury the money in the yards.

>>29947539
I don't wanna play at the casino I want to get onto the elevator at ground floor

>>29947289
Very centralized right now, a hacker got 10% of the supply and they changed the code and locked his funds. But of course any project like this needs to be centralized during the early phases. Same thing happened with ETH dao hack. Another problem is that mega whales control most of the supply.

Don’t wanna get too schizo but it’s the currency that Hayek predicted in this video:

https://youtu.be/9-uo-KfnkhI

an idea denationalized money. But he thought it would never be possible, so he only spoke about it in conceptual terms.

But now it is possible thanks to blockchain and oracles.

If oracles has existed in 2009 Satoshi would have made something similar to AMPL, look at this forum post too.

>>29947635
Better learn to code and create your own crypto then

>>29947539
I don't expect the price of bitcoin to go up next week. I do expect it to not lose half it's value every year, consistently, for decades, like the dollar does.

>>29947463
We are the reason why it was able to reach critical mass. Can be as upset as you’d like but this was the first instance of a decentralized, digital, peer to peer currency being utilized in a non-contained environment.
>also don’t hate on druggies too hard
>druggies are responsible for breakthrough technology such as the internet, computer, and discoveries such as the DNA helix structure (really)
Also there’s a big difference between heroin and LSD / Weed.
>>29947241
Last pic for now fren. Skepticism is wise so no hard feelings — will say though there was something magical about being young, going from Walmart to Walmart buying green dot moneypaks, sending them to some guy named “bitcoinmama”, and suddenly having magic internet money some random hard to access website just so happens to accept in exchange for mind altering substances

Was a literal Wild West and I’m thankful for the memories. Seeing what BTC (core) has become hurts my soul because I got to experience Bitcoin’s potential as a currency.
>now I hold both BTC and BSV

>>29947781
Yes, my BTC investment is up 17000% from its initial value, how do you know?

>>29947805
Speculative assets that have zero utility tend to eventually go into long term bear markets.

>>29947674
So, the idea is that the volatility of the currency is shifted into the supply, by inflating/deflating the currency, as the price is driven up and down?

>>29947954
That's why I don't hold useless speculative assets like cash.

>>29947954
Even if I am somewhat bearish on the long-term utility of BTC in it's direct relation to how we can structure an economy on cryptocurrency - there should be no doubt, that it will continue to appreciate in price.

There has never been such a perfectly scarce asset before. The mere devaluation of global reserve currencies will drive it up eventually, no matter what.

>>29947845
>Was a literal Wild West and I’m thankful for the memories
Never was a market so free

>>29948072
>There has never been such a perfectly scarce asset before
There is literally thousands of cryptos. Many of which actually have far better coding.

>>29938184
Same. Plus I have a good paying job. I just buy 20% worth of my salary in BTC every momth. And I also make traditional investments.

>>29947969
>So, the idea is that the volatility of the currency is shifted into the supply
Exactly
> by inflating/deflating the currency, as the price is driven up and down?
It’s neither inflationary nor deflationary because you always own the same percentage of Amples

>>29938032
-PoW has nothing to do with guaranteeing fair distribution. Bitcoin isn't socialist coin, it doesn't give a fuck about ghini coefficient.
-Debt is retarded, so it's good that we discourage it. Even so, it's not deflationary to the point of being unable to wage it. So people still would. Rates would of course be very good.

>>29942866
My inheritance is literally multi-mill property in prime real estate location being 2 minutes from city by tram + beach side property. The area is gentrified and 99% of the population is priced out from ever owning there, and its now full of rich fags.

My parents got lucky buying their in the 80s when it wasn't gentrified yet.

>>29948142
It doesen't really matter at this point. The first-mover advantage that BTC had, has made it a fundamental trading pair, which is hard to compete with.

You could also argue, that PoW has made it too big to fail within the conceivable future. The interest and investments into BTC, are too many and too large at this point.

>>29948372
>The first-mover advantage
Not really. Converse should have first mover advantage over Nike but it doesn't

>>29948300
>PoW has nothing to do with guaranteeing fair distribution.

Yes it does, because the very implication of PoW, is that no pre-mine has taken place, which means that there is no predetermined allocation of the currency.

>Debt is retarded

Debt is a cornerstone of a functioning economy. No large company or venture would exist right now, if the people who founded them, couldn't have gone into debt.

>>29948452
You are comparing two companies, to an entire network of incentive structures. Faulty comparison at best.

>>29948372
Let me ask you a question anon. If BTC was forced to trade under the ticker XBT do you think the public could be convinced to continue pouring their money into it?

Or do you think the average person would continue to dump money into whatever was trading under the BTC ticker and “BitCoin” moniker?

>>29948185
I need to look into this, because it honestly sounds like it solves the problem that BTC poses. Exciting if true.

>>29948558
I don't understand your point. Sounds like you are validating mine?

>>29947463
You don't understand how the world works at all.

>>29948530
Nope. Perfectly fine comparison. First mover advantage doesn't exist.

>>29948736
>First mover advantage doesn't exist

You're arguing against natural laws here, ambitious.

>>29948689
Well you mentioned the trading pairing which is “BTC”. There is currently litigation in place against the BTC devs that if successful would force exchanges to re-list BTC (core) under a new ticker. Financial institutions trade BTC (Core) under the ticker “XBT” so it would likely assuming that one.

Do you think the public could be convinced to buy “XBT” instead of “BTC”? Also, do you think the average person would continue to buy whatever project is listed as “BTC” after 10+ years of conditioning? There is no right or wrong answer, just looking for your opinion.

>>29948459
>Debt is a cornerstone of a functioning economy. No large company or venture would exist right now, if the people who founded them, couldn't have gone into debt.
You think proper use of the right to print money is to give some investment fund hundreds of funnymoney USD billions to play on the casino on?

>>29948584
You must not have been here in July, it was the most talked about coin but discussion is dead now, think too many people got burnt buying the last top and dismissed it as a Ponzi. People didn’t understand and it just bought cause when the price is over $1 you get more tokens everyday and people though it was free money.

But regardless if it works or not you can’t deny the rebase mechanism is really revolutionary, it was the copied coin of 2020 but the copies focused on the wrong thing. The focus on a rebase for the sake of the rebase- not realizing the rebase isn’t the point, but one tool to achieve AMPL’s true aim as a unit of account, a simple and elegantly designed primitive used to power crypto scalable collateral to serve the defi world and used to denominate contracts.

>>29948789
That's not a natural law but nice try. First mover advantage doesn't exist.

>>29948836
How are you getting that from what I said? No, I don't. But most businesses that 'make it' had to lend money, to expand their businesses.

wowowow. fudders got like nothing left. Everything in this thread tells me my 90% networth in btc was the right choice.

>>29948954
>How are you getting that from what I said?
Have you looked at M1 money supply chart recently?

>>29948826
I think the public will buy, whatever seems like a good investment for them - and if XBT does what BTC currently does, the market will capitalize on it.

>>29938032
You will be humbled by the end of this bull run.

>>29939477
Checked

>>29949085
If you read what I have written in this thread, you would know that I think that BTC is insanely valuable, but a bad tool for an economy.

BTC is going to keep going up. Forever. But we will never use it in the denomination of contracts and loans - and that is a problem that still has to be solved.

>>29949047
Thank you for answering. In your opinion what does BTC currently do? Acting as a trading pair is certainly a use case, but also one any project can fulfill.

>>29949024
Now you just stopped making sense.

>>29949216
I think the current narrative is, that BTC acts a tool for diversification, and as a hedge against traditional finance (and traditional monetary systems).

What enables it contra other currencies? Simply first-mover advantage, in my opinion. There is too much money involved in BTC. It is verging on 'too big to fail'.

>>29946519
>you know the stock market "crashed" harder than btc did last week right?
i'm pretty sure the stock market didn't go down 30% in a week

>>29948850
Hmm, interesting. I have only peripherally heard of rebasing - but I'll look into it. I didn't pay much attention, last year.

>>29949385
>It is verging on 'too big to fail'.
We agree here. But what if the project could no longer call itself “Bitcoin” and was forced to rebrand?
>this would be the catalyst for the renaming of the ticker from BTC to the institution used XBT

>>29944553
>But as a currency; As a tool for a society - it is only half of the solution. We need something to denominate long-term obligations in, that does not carry the same volatility in its price.
Why do you think the government is more threatened by stablecoins than anything else, tard?

>>29949024
you mean M1L? because the fed stopped reporting m2 and m1 last month. "discontinued". lolololol

>>29949685
You'd ideally want an asset that doesen't derive its value directly from the dollar or any other global reserve asset, tard.

>>29942961
imagine if everyone got paid in bitcoin
if you make 10 bitcoin a year then getting a loan for 1 bitcoin to buy a car or something would be doable, since what you make is able to be paid back in the same currency

>>29949653
I don't see how this really makes any difference? Is your point, that another project could then come in and call itself BTC in its place?

I mean, assuming that this is what you are getting it - sure, some people would probably conflate the two? But ultimately, I don't really see it being devastating for Bitcoin. There'd probably be a lot of people interested in informing and educating about this.

>>29949747
>You'd ideally want an asset that doesen't derive its value directly from the dollar or any other global reserve asset, tard.
Kek. The value of a decentralized stablecoin is not derived from the dollar, it is derived by a basket of crypto collateral. The peg is arbitrary and can be changed at anytime. Now shut the fuck up and lurk.

>>29949800
Well, not really. Maybe in some cases. The reason why, is that typically, loans are paid back over long time periods - and the problem here, is that because Bitcoin is deflationary, the amount of purchasing power you end up owing, is potentially exponentially larger then what you initially borrowed.

Would you really want to borrow, let's say, 5 BTC - that you'd then have to pay me back in a structured way, over the next 20 years?

No, that'd the extremely financial illiteracy?

>>29949653
That is going to happen faster than people realize.
and the newly named Bitcoin will be peer-to-peer and useable for less than a penny instantly.

>>29949978
I accidentally a sentence there, but what I mean was, that this would be a very unfavorable deal for you.

>>29949907
Let me guess, those stablecoins have assets like USDT and USDC in their basket of assets? No reason to be rude, or one-up me - you don't learn anything that way.

>>29938523
AMPL, dumbass

>>29948689
you can tell he's a BSV shill from him capitalizing the "C" in "BitCoin"

>>29942961
>people would buy less shit
Maybe the insane infinite growth economic model would end with a deflationary medium of exchange?

>>29950652
I don't think "infinite growth" can be equated to the feasible delayment of payment, that I suggested was a necessity for society to function.

>>29950616
What does that even mean ? LOL

>>29947674
Bitcoin is the sound money that humanity has desperately needed for its entire history.

>>29950802
i have no clue what it means i've just noticed it from BSV shill posting

>>29949978
Bitcoin is an austrian economics experiment
https://mises.org/wire/austrian-business-cycle-theory-explained
https://mises.org/library/human-action-0/html/p/820

>>29951073
and a VERY huge key to understanding WHO Satoshi is.

Would an American ever comment on British news as his by-line for day 1 of Bitcoin ?

>>29938184
I'm 52% bitcoin, 19% ethereum and 27% cardano

>>29950798
But why would you assume BTC to be significantly deflationary once it's matured?
And just think about the very notion and how absurd it is. Something CANNOT be infinitely deflationary. Simply take to its logical extreme: 1 BTC buys a house
1 BTC buys 10 houses
1 BTC buys 100... 1000.. 10k, 100k, a million, all the houses in the world
It's a nonsensical concept. The deflation is fundamentally self-limiting.

>>29951137
>Would an American ever comment on British news as his by-line for day 1 of Bitcoin ?
Yes because England is the font of Anglo culture and the US is just Brazil with winter. Only a mulatto would think the NYT is really the paper of record.
>>29950098
Stablecoins are currently around 17% of Dai collateral. There has to be some mechanism to mint Dai for those coins otherwise they will buy Dai on the secondary market and it will distort the price.

>>29951444
You have a fixed amount of BTC.
You have an increasing amount of houses.
It's not that BTC buys all the houses in the world, but that there are more houses.
Basically divide all the total stock of wealth between the amount of BTC.

>>29951444
Technically, you are right - but functionally, we also operate with 8 decimals, and large caches of BTC can potentially be lost, even assuming full distribution.

I am not saying, that the deflation might be significant once it has matured, but the risk profile of borrowing an asset, that is prone to sudden, unforeseeable deflation is high.

I wouldn't personally want to take on that kind of risk, if I was borrowing a significant amount of BTC for many years?

>muh maxis muh maxis
No such thing you faggots. Not on /biz/ anyway
Btc is king though stay poor

>>29938523
>If you want to have an economy (and a society) of any kind, you are going to have the need for people to borrow money feasibly.
Let me guess you are jewish.

>>29951908
I am a very non-religious, scandinavian.

>>29938032
You don't need to be ultra smart to understand how BTC works and why it is a safe bet.

>>29938032
Once Bitcoin hits 500k or so, you can easily use it as collateral, and by then self-custodian options for that sort of transaction will be in place.
I dont really see your argument. Bitcoin is perfectly scarce, the scarcest money ever.

>>29952169
The argument is, that you take on enormous amounts of risks, if you borrow an asset like BTC for a long period of time, due to the deflationary nature of BTC.

You lose a tremendous amount of purchasing power (potentially) if you were you to do this.

>>29939868
This. The end of the consumer loan will bring about the second age of Aquarius.

>>29938032
Do they know about Apollo Protocol as well then it's pretty likely they have 200+

>>Can't scale.
>>High transaction fees.
>>Controlled by big miner players.
>>Catastrophic for environment.

They are beyond deluded, strictly retarded. There is no reason to use this when there are lots of better option. Bitcoin is like a alpha version of cryptocurrencies.

>>29952273
I am saying that you borrow AGAINST your bitcoin, not borrow Bitcoin directly.

>>29938032
Going to recommend AMPL again. BTC holders are delusional if they think it's a viable currency. SoV meme works I guess. Also security. But as a currency what you've pointed out is fundamental to Bitcoin. Vitalik pointed this out in and interview as well. It just can't work.

>>29952895
Right, but in a "Hyperbitcoinized" world, what would you borrow AGAINST with? All your inflationary assets are gone.

>>29952954
Or, they're at least not going to be very attractive for the lender to accept as collateral, since inflation at that point, will be a real concern for this party.

>>29939283
this

>>29949800
kek gettin paid half million $ per year, average wagie will earn 100k satoshi ten years from now.

>>29952954
>>29952985
I am not of the belief that Bitcoin will completely eradicate the need for any other form of money. I am a long term crypto bull, and yeah, maybe some other crypto will come along in the next 20 years that will eventually overtake BTC, but I am not going to gamble on that. Bitcoin in my view is the safest way to invest money right now. Nothing else comes close.