/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>29769074
if you are skilled u swing
if you are not skilled you hold

Simple as that.

>>29769074
It depends on wealth and time. The more wealth you have the less attractive swing trading is due to volatility; and, the more time you have the more attractive swing trading is due to increase time demands. This is why so many people scam crypto, because they have low wealth and high time.

>High wealth, low time
HOLD
>High wealth, high time
HOLD or Swing-Trade
>Low wealth, low time
Swing-Trade
>Low wealth, low time
Swing-trade or HOLD

>>29769262
Even if you are skilled, you probably won't beat the market in the long term. I would only swing while the macro trend is bearish.

>>29769262
That’s why I hold.

i normally hold, but i have some play money to make some fun trades and try luck
it makes life a bit more interesting

Hodl
>no effort
>no stress
>guaranteed return as long as you don't invest into rugpulls
>needs large initial investment unless you are absurdly early into a coin

Trade
>requires three digit IQ
>balding by 25
>huge returns on smaller investment if you make it
>Go broke if you don't

>>29769074
Can’t swing on ETH based tokens

>>29769074
If you swing trade 100% perfectly, you can turn. $1 into $1 billion in about a week with crypto. Guess how many people actually manage to do that? Swingies getting the rope is not a meme. Hodling is much safer.

>>29769074
>3% loss
>15% profit
>$320 spent on fees

>>29769074
I try to swing cause Im broke and need to pay future expenses off. Sometimes it rapes me. I havent lost on original investment, but I lost often the gains I had made in overbetting.
Its a violation if you do it too often. I recommend just going for high leverage, short-term swings you will exit within 1-2 days max and youre quite sure of

>>29769407
I'd rather be playing bideo games or talking to cute girls. Also sleeping soundly :) that's why I hold

>>29769856
>3% loss
>15% profit
>$320 spent on fees

>>29769856
The fees are ridiculous.
I’m a poorfag who can invest only a few hundred dollars at a time, but I have to wait for something to be at least 20% up before swing trading because of the poorfag filter

>>29769856
what fees?

>>29769074
Or you can put in 25% of the money you have to invest at 4 different points as it declines and then just hold forever and maybe come out at 12% profit and not even have to worry about timing the market which is unlikely to begin with.

>>29770019
then don't swing on uniswap, stay on binance with its 0.1% fees, there's hundreds of shitcoins to swing over there

>>29769074
>>29769358
Most swing traders get rekt eventually. It's a zero sum game, and you're playing against the market manipulators, corrupt exchanges, and advanced AI. The only time you should make a trade is when you intend to hold whatever you're buying for at least a few months.

>>29769074
Isn't it illegal to pump and dump? How long to you have to hold onto stock to avoid penalties? And how long do you have to wait before you can invest more of the same stock that you sold? Sorry I am a new fag.

What really happens
>hold during the pump
>sell at the bottom
>FOMO when it pumps again
>it dumps again
This is why so many people on /biz/ lose all of their money

>>29769856
Huh? Fees on /ourchain/ are like fraction of a BNB

>Spend an entire weekend staring at numbers to grow my stack.
>Happy because I managed 10% profit each day.
>Realize that I made about $20 from over 20 hours of work with my puny stack.
>Realize I actually would have made slightly more if I had just HODLed the whole time.
I don't care anymore.

>>29769074
Almost all people trying to swing trade are losing money in the long run. Yeah, sometimes the strategy might work. But again, many times it doesn't. Plus, consider the opportunity costs of having to stay up to date all the time, watching the charts anxiously like a retard and the extra costs of taxation. Overall, I prefer to just put my money in cryptos I think are going to perform in the long run, and then forget about them for at least a few months while using my time to improve myself. I don't really regret this strategy.

Would love to start swinging on BSC. The charts suck dick so it will have to wait

>>29771190
>taxation
what a cuck. lmao

>>29769074
Short term capital gains tax, yo.

>>29769074
Hodling in the most emotional market.

>>29771117
Haha feel you brah. If you play with little then
just throw it in some coin and wait until you hear news about it.

>>29770290
I’m on coinbase because America is no longer free

>>29769516

Excellent summary imo.

I am more of a hodler, but I will take the occasional side play now and then (a few times a year), short term stuff like a couple of weeks to play out, if it's a PERFECT opportunity. Otherwise I just keep my main stack and let the market do its thing.

Having large initial investment definitely helps. I borrowed 70,000$ by remortgaging and went all in, made it to mid 7 figs without lifting a finger.

The low stress of hodling is worth millions in itself. I've done the obsessive chart gazing thing and ended up in a pretty bad place, kek. Fuck that.

>>29769074

>>29771410
>[Update] [Auto] 5 new posts
Forgot pic

>>29769262
fpbp

>>29770293
That's basically what I do. I buy something I believe in and increase my holdings via relatively safe swing trades.

>>29769262
You have to know the market.
A pump can last 30 days or even 30 minutes. Best way is to go all in during the bottom and only on stocks that move up as well as down.

>>29769516
I have an tested iq of 130 and I always hodl. You need an iq over 115 to be able to distinguish between rugpulls and real projects

>Buy index fund
>wait 10 years
>beat 90% of hedge funds

>>29772011
Successful financial investors can predict the future.

>>29769262
you are not going to beat the crypto market without assisting tools and bots. sorry bud, you are not that smart, literally 99% of the people will lose money trying to time the crypto market by themselves.

>>29769074
What the hell do I hold then? Is Bitcoin good as a long term hold?

>>29771551
ve pien

>>29769262
This. I've been much more profitable swing trading than I ever was HODLing. This has made the difference in my making $1,000 in a day vs $8,000-$10,000 in a day before.
That's commission free trades on stocks though, I don't touch crypto. I've never remained in a position longer than 2 hours and average about 30 minutes.

>>29769074
Show that chart to the faggots that hold btc for 10 years

>>29772653
I'm saying three digits is a prerequisite in order to trade and not go broke in the first week, but not everyone with above-average IQ trades. It's just not worth the stress IMO.

t. 120 IQlet

>>29773383
Stocks don’t move as much in a day as coins, are you playing with 100k or something?

How often do you swing trade? Do you trade multiple times per day or once a week?

>>29769262
There is no skill in swinging trading, its all degenerate gambling.

>>29770581
are u watching me faggot

>>29769074
I researched a coin and stayed in it because I believed in the project, got a x100 after a year.
Now swingies are getting rekt left and right. Over the long term hodling is 99% of the cases better.

>>29770284
DCA IN DCA OUT best of both worlds

>>29774376

DCA just means you can't tell if you're in a "cheap" place or an "expensive" place currently, and anyone can tell that. I had a mate who wanted to DCA into BTC when it was pushing 20k again late last year and I tried to persuade him that the balance of probabilities now was strongly on the side of mooning, so lump sum buying right now was the correct approach, rather than DCA over 6mo or whatever. But he didn't and so now he will own like 1/3 as much corn as he would have had otherwise.

I think that with even a little bit of thought one can pick reasonably good lump entries and exits. DCA is only useful when forced by income schedules etc.

Otherwise just whack it in. You'll beat DCA most of the time with even a little bit of timing.

>>29772004
Top keks

>>29771117
If you develop a technique that you like and feel comfortable with, it doesn't matter if you use $200 or $2MM

Think of it as tuition.

>>29769358
Bottom two are the same

>>29769074
Time in market usually beats timing the market unless you're an exceptionally skilled trader.
I think many folks here overestimate their skill level because they got started trading crypto during a little bull run and wrongly think they're genius level investors. Most people here aren't exceptionally skilled or they'd be working in wall street for giant salaries and bonuses.
My personal opinion, based on your age, risk tolerance, and wealth, decide to try both. For instance, if you're poor and young, maybe swing with 80% and hodl 20% of your wealth. If you're old and rich, maybe hodl 80% and swing with 20% of your wealth.

>>29773287
Just hold the index.

>>29769074
Your image implies you can see the future and predict "the bottom" all while ignoring your short term cap gains tax eating away 40% of your profits.

i feel attacked

>dude, all you have to do is time the market

I'm a burger so I get raped on short term gains taxes by swinging unless I do really well. Guess it's a hodlers life for me.

>>29769262
This, swinging makes me too nervous so I hold, plus I dint wanna stare at charts all day and stress about trades (or worry about fees and taxes)
If you can do it with little or no hitch, bo problem
>>29769074
Not sure what the problem is with holding, so far it's been working for me

>>29776802
>short term cap gains tax
Explain yourselves, seppos.
Why does it make a difference whether you hold for a short or long period of time?

>>29777729
You avoid short term capital gains taxes in the US if you HODL for over a year.

>>29777729
I'm >>29777118
In Americaland, every crypto trade is a taxable event, so if you were to swap BTC for USDC you get taxed on any profits that you made on the value of your bitcoin. Once you hold something for 1 year or greater, the tax is drastically reduced.
So while it's possible to make more money swinging, the extra taxes and risk usually aren't worth it.

>>29769074
Well holders typically buy during the dip which is where the profit comes from when it goes back up,

>>29769074
all it takes is 1 bad swing trade to fuck you up
I have 2 stack 1 for trading one for holding and they are actually very close in terms of performance except the hold one requires 0 attention and time + will have long-term capital gains for lower taxes

>>29778386
But if u just trade high probability trades (for example reversals) and put tight stops why should something bad happen?

>>29777729
>Be me
>200k a year salary
>Paying 32% federal income tax and 5% state
>Short term capital gains is counted as regular income
If I make 7k more in short term cap gains I get charged 35% on everything above this
>If I wait a year or more before selling it's a flat 15%.
Maybe you enjoy giving the government free money on the off chance you don't fuck up a trade but I don't.

>>29778161
Yeah even holding is long term swinging isn't it

>>29769074
I'm a poorfag who only has 3k to start out. I want to hold but I know I don't have enough. Should I try and swing my way to at least 5 figures first?

>>29779039
If you could time the market perfectly why aren't you a billionaire yet?