/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>29742710
Rishi seems like the only competent individual in his cabinet

Fake and gay

>>29742710
The tories wouldn't dare.
Best way to raise some money is to slap some tarrifs on EU imports.

>>29742812
pay your taxes goyim, Abdul and his 16 cousins with 8 wives and 135 children each are already on the way from Calais, we need that money NOW!

>>29742840
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9301667/Boris-Johnson-threatens-kick-Tory-budget-rebels.html

>>29742710
Inshallah

>>29742710
Based Rishi. Keep the gibs flowing m8

>>29742926
My goodness a daily mail article, well pack it up lads were off to Portugal

How does CGT even work? Do you only need to pay when you withdraw or cash out into fiat?

I know you get an allowance of 13ish thousand profit every year.

>>29742710
Our debt is nearly as big as France and Italy now. No shit we need to increase taxes, not happy about it but its fucking obvious it was coming.

>>29742710
>Tories spend an entire decade attacking labour, claiming they’ll hike taxes if they ever get into power
>*present year*
>tories hike taxes while labour says tax hikes bad
What bizarro Britain are we living in now?

lads why did we have to sink ourselves into the largest recession for 100 years and take on debts we will never payback because of the flu?

>>29743233
Any selling or trades are taxable events, not cashing out.
If you invest 1k in BTC and it went to 100k and traded that for ETH you need to declare it.
If you just hold and never sell you can cash out your 12.5k per year tax free. Unless they lower that next week

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>>29743233
Yes it's when you sell an asset. I think you're still meant to pay when you swap between crypto though I'm not 100% sure

>>29743235
>>29743349
>>29743496
>falling for the government deficits matter meme
if you control your own money supply you can just inflate it away
tax hikes are not required, it's a psyop

>>29743576
mental that people actually wanted us to adopt the euro lmao

>>29742710
when is this? Need to know when to cash out

>>29743627
THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER

>>29743564
all crypto to crypto trades are taxable

>>29742710
What an ugly arse that is

>>29743660
Wednesday 3rd March

>>29743660
it’s just a rumour for now anon
be stupid for them to actually do it, i would pay 20%, but I’m absolutely fucking off abroad to cash out if they raise it to 45%
I imagine practically everyone will do the same

>>29743676
If your profit exceeds the CGT allowance.

>>29743759
>If your profit exceeds the CGT allowance.
wrong

>>29742840
Why do retards like you even try to make money

>>29743759
you also have to declare if your trade volume is greater than 4x the cgt limit as well

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/876771/SA108_Engish_notes_2020.pdf

>>29743531
>Unless they lower that next week
rumoured to be lowered to 2k

>>29743851
makes me want to cry desu

If so, wouldn't they be applicable during the 2022-23 tax year? Surely you don't announce a massive tax change just a few weeks before it happens, r-right?

>>29742710
>punishes people who are smart and invest
>meanwhile lets chavs and single mothers scrounge more and more

This cant be real, rishi would NEVER do something this vile?

>>29743904
>Surely you don't announce a massive tax change just a few weeks before it happens, r-right?
they will use the scamdemic to push through "emergency" tax changes

>>29743904
yeah we would at least have until april 6th or whatever?

>>29743904
I really fucking hope not
If it goes to 45% I'm not cashing out this bullrun, maybe never
Fuck fuck fuck
I'm was so close too

>>29742710
Do you want me to take my money somewhere else? Because that's how you make people take their fucking money somewhere else. I don't have to invest from the UK.

>>29742795
>t.

>>29743976
no i mean
what, you announce a massive tax shift a month before you have to then PAY HALF for the foreseeable future
people will fucking liquidate everything instantly

>>29743969
>>29743997
it's all so bullshit lads
it's all fucked
i just want a cottage with a farm
FUCK

>>29743904
No, the reason its so close is so people don't have time to react and crash any markets, they could even say its effective immediadtly

>>29743997
>>29744008
>run your crypto through tornado
>declare as a loss to HMRC, "my metamask got hacked and I lost it all"

>>29744008
This. They raise it that high there’s not a chance I’m cashing out here.
They could have got 20% now they will get nothing.

>>29744061
well you'd have literally 2 years if they did it then
2024 is when people would be paying those taxes
why would they do it NOW when people have the change to react immediately
unless as you say they do it immediately and in which case the prisons wont be large enough to fit all the tax dodgers
why are they so dump
did the jew overlords really need to bleed us this dry? they've been at it for 300 years now. im kinda impressed by how much they feel we need to specifically be targeted over and over

Just set up a Ltd company in Sierra Leone or some other Godforsaken low to no tax shit hole. The agent there will sort out your bank account - cash out to that and just use your Bank of Jiggeryfuck cash card. It would be worth having a domestic Ltd company too so you can cash enough out to their account for max no tax dividend distribution to self and max your ISA contributions out too. Once totally cashed out to UK Ltd and Foreign Ltd, liquidate the UK one to get remaining funds with usual rebates (should be around 15% tax) and do whatever with the foreign one. Maybe move to Singapore for 6 months, open a bank account there and liquidate foreign Ltd with wire to new Singapore bank. Sounds complicated but easy as fuck, especially if you’ve got at least 6 figures waiting.

>>29744039
Won't he announce that it applies to this tax year - so we're all fucked.

>>29744148
how is that legal
unironically

>>29744148
No it wont be back-dated, even they aren't that stupid. Could come in on March 3rd tho to stop huge sell offs

More than doubling cgt overnight feels very unlikely. I doubt even labour would do that. I expect they’ll cut the allowance and raise it a few points

>>29744241
i think you will still see massive sell-offs out of british businesses
turns out they found a way to punish us for brexit, huh?

>>29744170
>he thinks that the government has to follow the law like the dumb goy cattle

>>29744289
i dont but it even astonishes my jaded views sometimes

>>29744039
>i just want a cottage with a farm
that it, at best, xenophobic, and dare I say it - right wing extremism adjacent

>>29744265
it's an easy one to hike massively as normies/deanos aren't exposed to CGT

Check it out..

I am also seeing other alts like Mochimo.org

>>29742710
can i not just set up a bank account in another country with lower CGT rates and cash out there?

>>29744486
no not unless you domicile there
which is normally 6 months of living

>>29744486
you need to gain tax residency

Do you remember growing up, looking out at the countryside, and thinking "yeah this is an alright place"?

>>29744147

I hasten to add you must be able to demonstrate residency in these countries to ensure you’re not breaking any laws.

>>29744505
so i cash out some gains and move country and then cash out the rest after x amount of time for lower CGT?
>>29744508
i dont understand but ill google that

>>29744348
True but tories (mps, members, donors) far more likely to be those who benefit from low cgt rate. It’s why I’d expect labour to raise it but the tories to be far more careful fucking with it. That said I expect it to be raised as 20% is a historically low level (hence why in some of my non crypto related investments I’ve managed to effectively pre-pay a lot of cgt @20%)

>>29744730
>i dont understand but ill google that
dude...

>so i cash out some gains and move country and then cash out the rest after x amount of time for lower CGT?
i mean feasible but have fun riding the markets for like a year for that to happen

>>29743754
Yeah, just going to lead to more tax dodging really.

imagine still living in "the UK" in current year.

just make up an reason to "essential travel" to paraguay and never look back

>>29744794
yeah dude it's easy just leave my aging parents behind and whatnot haha FUCK THEM
cmon man not everyone has the ability, it's not easy

>>29744735
easy: sell it as a tax against the rich and use the BBC to sell it to normies

make CGT rules extremely complicated and hard to understand without an expensive jew lawyer or accountant, make sure you include obscure loopholes so that your mates don't lose out

end goal: me and you will pay CGT whilst rich MPs and donators can afford the advice to seek out the loopholes

>>29744831
i dont think accountancy firms are that difficult these years
been looking at them
but ye they're courting the norf hardcore

>>29744831
Not as simple as that. They have a strong voter base of wealthy southern boomers who would be outraged if cgt more than doubles.

Is it more likely they increase 10% this year and 10% the following year?

also an alternative way to cash out is to get a loan backed by your crypto portfolio, since you don't sell the crypto you incur no cgt

Reminder that we've been eternally fucked by (((them))) since Waterloo and it only gets worse each year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Mayer_Rothschild

>>29745038
they're wealthy through property - so make a loophole for property disposals

>>29742795
Bloody moron

>>29744265
Hope you're right anon

I bought mochimo a month ago and its up 1100%, why is it going up so much !??!

>>29743496
>lads why did we have to sink ourselves into the largest recession for 100 years and take on debts we will never payback because of the flu?

You know, lad. You know.

>>29745551
This is how they get you anons. Leak out crazy ideas to the media like doubling the rate, then make you thank them for "only' raising it 5/10%

>>29745612
>just pay off the doubts to the red shields from the Napoleonic wars a few daces ago
>they decide to milk us more
it's so tiresome

>>29743235
The leash tighten again and again, yhea, fuck that

>>29742795
And he's robbing them blind

>>29745660
Exactly.

>traded mid 2017
>had $30000 total max in assist
>traded multiple exchanges, dex
>lost more than half since a series of bad trades during the downfall
>widthdraw some money overtime to my bank but not all
>late 2020
>put some money into crypto along with the crypto I had left

I have no idea what I'm going to do. I am majorly fucked. I don't remember all the exchanges I used and had multiple wallets. I had losses and gains that went over x4 the volume where you needed to report it at early 2018 and I didn't know anything about tax in that time.

Should I just get an accountant and throw my recent trade history and bank widthdraw+deposits and let him sort it out?

>>29743496
"We" didn't, our government did so they could pocket the money through dodgy non competitive contracts

why are brits so dumb?

When Rishi Sunak sees your coins mooning

Tory votingbase are all landlords, investors , people on pensions and other passive income.

That shit will absolutely not pass, just reduce UC especially for single moms and other welfare leeches if you wana bring up the budget.

>>29745731
Yes, basically. You need to try and replicate the records for your tax return and sounds like you’ll be struggling to do that. Speak with a pro

>>29745731
They won't know faggot, just work on the basis of anything you cash out

Why sell when you can get a loan? Not useful if you're crypto-poor, but if you have several million in crypto you can just keep taking new loans

>>29745731
just dont report anything dude, theyre not gonna bother you. at worst theyll set out a mean letter and threaten you but never commit, govenment is that retarded.

>>29745893
>>29745902
also apparently for everyday you don't report your taxes its 10 GBP a DAY. So thats 10950 GBP minimum in penelties for me.

>>29745499
They have stocks and shares, property, investments in businesses. A significant hike in cgt is against basically everything the tories are for. They’ll raise it. They will not more than double it overnight

>>29745660
Literally the first business tactic you learn is come in at your highest offer

>>29742710
Don't care. Everything I have is in my investment ISA and I can pull £20k a year on top of my salary. If I need it, i'll open a company abroad, or just leave spare cash into my existing company.

Tbh, considering what they did with IR35, we're all getting taxed up the arse now anyway. The days of £180k/y contract work is over, and you can see salaries shooting up in response.

this is why i only hold monero

>>29745731
You can try using Koinly if the exchanges are still up and it can take ETH wallet records directly too. I was in a similar situation and I think I've got it worked out now. The platform is free up until you actually want to generate a tax report form, so you shouldn't need to pay anything to work out what you owe.

>>29745731
Depends, if you were fucking dumb enough to use coinbase, then i'd be worried. Otherwise the only thing they know about is money into bank and out of and you can just say you kept it on one coin in your wallet and they cannot do shit.

>>29745731
I have this problem too. I have recorded all the money i onramped through coinbase pro and will record the amount when I liquidate all at the end of the bull run. I can give them the total gain amount but not all trades. I used a ton of dexes, chinese exchanges and exchanges which got hacked and no longer exist lol. That better be enough or I am fucked too.

>>29744486
Dual citizen here. Can't I just use my secondary citizenship and register my banks and others through that passport?

>>29746066
not unless you live there

>>29746007
They'd want proof (recipts) of your trade. You're gonna be screwed when they ask where the extra BTC/LTC/ETH came from

>>29746007
>if you were fucking dumb enough to use coinbase
Does this apply if I bought crypto on Coinbase then moved it off straight after without trading on it?
I don't plan on selling my main stack anyway, only interest rewards and Link staking rewards so that should come under income tax. Not happy about paying it but it is more simple.

>>29742710
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>29746100
>>29746099
Just saw your other post, I pretty much made no actual gains from 2017/2018 and at the end of 2018 I put it all into Link which I've been all in ever since.

>>29742795
Congrats - you just proved you're a fucking idiot

>>29742710
Great idea. That way people will choose either to evade tax or never liquidate their assets. Fucking moron.

>>29746099
I'm sure there's some way to reasonably claim you cannot get receipts anymore for a bunch of reasons like claiming the exchange got pulled or whatever, maybe the best way is to just fuck off abroad. I hope you're wrong but you're probably right sadly.
>>29746100
I think you should be okay hopefully, all I know is that coinbase works very tightly with HMRC so ANYTHING you do on there will be checked by HMRC the moment they open an investigation into your crypto taxes.

>>29746022
You'll be fine anon, you are paying them, they are not going to look that closely at it. Use what accounts you do have access to, add the api on koinly and send off your return with it all attached and the total amount. Its pretty easy to do, the onramp offramp bit is the only bit they understand anyway, as long as its not a massive discrepancy that looks like a drug dealer no ones gonna give a shit

>>29742795
idiot

>>29742795
good bait

>>29742926
If the UK raises corporate tax after the clusterfuck of brexit every major employer left in the south east england is going to pack up and head to amsterdam, dublin, paris and frankfurt

>>29746980
rumours of corporation tax going to 23-25%

What's the best way to avoid cgt? Just use non kyc exchanges or what
>>29746479
How closely does binance work with hmrc?

>>29743824
That’s only if you are required to file a tax return for another reason.

>>29745811
take this shit back to facebook

>>29747189
You'll have to DYOR if you're actually concerned but I don't think Binance do much atm, HMRC is slow as shit to adapt to stuff like crypto but maybe within the next few years they'll start pleading at cz's doors for fundus.

>>29743531
> trades are taxable meme

>>29747189
Don't cash out. Fiat isn't worth buying anyway.

I'd like to see an example of someone getting stung because of not declaring crypto to crypto trades....until then it's fake and gay fud.

99.9999% of UK crypto traders will not report C2C trades and even less will even know they have to.
HMRC will likely be pleased if you cut them a lump sum of your cash out.

CGT is better than inflation. Inflation kills your capital, CGT only kills your gains.

The fairest taxes would be unoccupied property taxes, followed by general land and property taxes.

The most unfair are inflation, CGT, and income taxes, in that order.

>>29743851
In germany its 800 Euro a year guys.

>>29745939
But you have to pay it back eventually anon...

>>29747798
F

>>29747654
You do realise that the exchanges report it to HMRC, right?

>>29747885
coinbase reports you if you have over x amount. Binance doesn't which is the one I have my crypto on

>>29748008
What if you buy coin X then send it to a wallet and don't bring it back? All they know is that you spent money, right?

>>29747859
And by then your bitcoin has appreciated and your fiat has become worthless.

>>29747684
And inflation makes CGT higher too as a hidden tax. Truly sneaky and evil.
All CGT should be inflation adjusted

>>29747684
>inflation
>unfair
Not if you have a mortgage.
>inflation goes up
>interest rates raised (temporarily)
>pay rises
>evaporated mortgage
>free house

oh God its still syncing and counting the binance transations

>>29748813
>pay rises
Found the issue. And you're screwed on a variable rate mortgage.

>>29748947
ITS STILL GOING WTF

I don't remember making this many trades in the past

>>29744831
these are the classic tactics

>>29742795
Retard

>>29749744
time to pay up goy

>>29749485
Interest rates and stagnant pay are difficult for a few years but after that pay rises but the evaporated mortgage stays evaporated. The few difficult years in the 80s are the reason the typical boomer is convinced they worked hard for the free house that they live in.

>>29743660
We're spreading the rumour that it's getting hiked to 45% so that when we raise it to 30% instead people will feel fortunate.
>t. HMRC insider

>>29743349
You forgot about covid or what you mong

>>29751066

If they do anything other than remove tax free limit and end the 10% under £55k and change it to flat 20% i’ll buy a passport from a Caribbean Island, and not pay any tax. Fuck em. Will still be cheaper to do that than pay 10% more. It’s be cheaper to do that than pay 20% too but i was happy to pay 20%. Not any more.

>>29751212
The Furlough scheme won't pay for itself.

>>29748813
That only works if you
(0) time the market well enough to go through a period of high inflation with a large debt - If you time it wrong, you'll get rekt by interest.
(1) don't have investments in financial assets

Inflation hurts almost everyone, it's one of the harshest taxes possible. Literally just makes everyone poorer. It would be better to have basically anything else.

Anon check out $MCM
They are gonna rock soon.

> No investments
> no ico
> original concept

>>29751485
>time the market well enough to go through a period of high inflation with a large debt
Well looks like almost every single zoomer has timed it just right then. Assuming they can get a job or start a business.

>>29751303

They raise almost nothing from Capital gains. Taxing it more will make people pay it to other governments so its just a publicity stunt. It wont result in a net gain, same at best.
If they increase income tax just 1% it’ll raise 5x more than capital gains earns them currently per year. Same for VAT.
The only reason they aren't doing that is due to manifesto pledges. Imagine that. As if the public wouldnt understand that the oledge was made before covid hit, a literal war tome scenario in publics eye.

I dont live in the UK but im english. I could pay to this gov at 40% and know it wont go to pakis and shitskins 10 kids, or i could just buy tax residency in tue Caribbean and pay nothing. I have no need to pay it to the UK other than because its convenient and not robbery. Im not the only one in that position.

>>29742795
kek nice bait

>>29751777
>I could pay to this gov at 40% and know it wont go to pakis and shitskins 10 kids,
Checked and I agree, I would begrudgingly pay that in taxes if the money weren't being used to attack me and my people.

>>29751949

Im in Japan. So at least i know the money will be spent domestically supporting non pozzed shit. Why would i give the UK more just to import pakis and make white people the devil?

Realistically i’m gonna buy that passport. Cash out 800k, give tax to japan, buy the passport for 500k and cash the rest out at 0%

>>29742710
They release these trial balloons so the plebs are happy when it only increases to 30%. The plebs think their outrage forced a concession. HAHAHA

>>29751762
Large as in several multiples of your salary.
Even if your $200k student loans get inflated to only $100k real value, so what? That's like 2 years savings if you got a good job out of college.

The real gains are if your $2m mortgage gets inflated to $1m, and there aren't many people with that kind of debt and no financial assets.

>>29751949
>Im in Japan
At least the money goes to Abe trying to convince young Japanese people to start families. How did you end up there?

>>29752122

The thing is the biggest contributora to cpt gains (which only raises 12b a year) have the option to cash out elsewhere for less if they want. Pretty much pay 0%

If they mess with it they may even earn less. All they can do to keep the largest payers is removing tax free limit and making it flat 20% and remove the 10% threshold.

>>29752207

Just wanted something different without moving to third world. Japan was pretty perfect in that regard.
Wagecucked since 16 for 10 years almost every weekend too. Invested it all into crypto over the years and finally decided to take a couple years off last year.

>>29742795
the bombay badboi is promising but very green

>>29742710
>45%
The hard-working Pakistani isn't afraid to pay his fair share. It's the whinging white Angloid who shirks his financial duty to the Crown.

>>29743754
cope
almost nobody actually moves abroad just to cash out, it is a lot more fucking complicated than you think

>>29752741
>Pakistani isn't afraid to pay his fair share
if only you knew

>>29752741
45% of 0 is hardly arduous

>>29751108
>covid means both main parties have completely switched principles

>>29753502
>he thinks either party has principles

>>29742710
Can't believe the partner of a hedge fund would even conceive of an idea to raise taxes

>>29745939
>avoid tax by taking loans
How does this work? Okay there might be no tax on your loan itself, but the taxman would surely want to know where you're getting the money to repay the loan? I can only see this ending up with anons paying tax on the repayment funds and the loan interest on top of this. Am I missing something?

>>29748947
what website/ app is this?

>>29743754
This. I won't pay anything over 20%. They are fucking themselves royally.

>>29748947
>>29749744
it's never nice
WHAM

>>29742710
Is CGT the most jewish type of tax?
Maybe inheritance tax is more jewish I'm not sure.

>>29745317
This is fucking based. Anyone done this? Been looking to do it since I read this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/pioneering-aussie-engineer-refinances-home-loan-using-defi-in-a-single-day/amp

>>29745811
Fuck off newfag

>>29754044
You pay the loan off with another, larger loan. It works for a while if Bitcoin is growing. It's meant to be a temporary situation. Worst comes to worst, you default and they just take your collateralized Bitcoin.

>>29742710
Wish he would have announced something like this last week so I would sell before the dumpening

>>29745317
>>29754993
holy shit

>>29755451
>pay the loan off with another loan
Okay, so then the taxman is going to want to know where the funds for paying the larger loan off came from. No matter how many layers you add, I imagine they'll trace it right back to a taxable event. Why wouldn't they?

>>29756038
Where they came from? They're your assets, untaxable because you aren't making a disposal. This is not for traders trying to avoid tax, this is for people who bought Bitcoin and have accumulated large unrealized gains.

>>29745951
Lmao where the fuck did you hear that from. HMRC applies penalties based on deemed behaviour. If you’re deemed to have been mistaken despite taking reasonable care then no penalty at all

>>29742710
dirty brown skinned fucking cretin

>>29742710
Are you a legit fucking retard? You think the Tories will jump to 45% CGT?
You nigger tier retarded?

>>29756177
Right. So you're saying put up some of your stack as collateral for a cash loan at interest, and then use (some of) the rest of your stack to repay the loan and the interest on the loan? Right, well I don't work for HMRC but I'm willing to bet that they'd see the point at which you make the repayments as a tax event. Maybe I'm wrong. Can anyone shed light on this?
That opens up a can of worms. Can I buy a house in Bitcoin (if the seller accepts it) and not have to worry about paying any CG tax?

>>29756830
The repayments are another loan. It's loans all the way down, baby.

>>29756038
I think the idea is you do pay it off one day, it just lets you defer it and stay in the market longer
Seems very risky

>>29756980
There are only so many loans to pay off loans you can get. It's a simple matter for your tax auditor to demand from you the structure of these loans and trace it back to the one at the top and then ask the million dollar question "how are you paying for this loan?" at which point your answer will likely be something like "oh fuck"

>>29757637
The answer will be I got into Bitcoin early and have what is now a large amount of untapped capital I don't want to liquidate. Why is this so confusing?

>>29746980
That’s the point.

>>29757066
Anybody with the slightest knowledge of Bitcoin and how it's price has appreciated would have no trouble understanding why you would rather keep hold of it instead of giving it away at these prices. Worst that can happen is you lose your overcollateralized loan, effectively selling your Bitcoin for 1/2 price or 2/3rds, depending on the loan and how much collateral you have added/removed depending on the price movements.

>>29759248
If you've done things right the only thing you should lose if it falls through is your fake internet money and your houses and everything else should be paid off.

>>29759997
You won't lose anything though, it's an overcollateralized loan. That's the point.