/biz/ - Business & Finance

>muh first chain has to be dominant otherwise the whole industry disappears!
Bitcoin will quickly be forgotten as soon as it gets flipped the first time, and it will only be good news for DLT as a whole.

Hoskinson understands this

>>29517094
>Everything bitcoin does, other cryptos do better.
12-year old record. Bitcoin has been running for 12 years and it hasn't. Fucking. Failed.

>>29517432
I think there was a double spend

>>29517094
none of that matters bc bitcoin has the most people participating and the highest price.
It'll probably always be that way bc of the momentum it has versus other coins

>>29517094
It's the grandpa and everyone follows it. There's absolutely no reason for it, bit's a shitcoin.

We got close to shrugging it off in 18 but now it hangs over us like a parasite

>>29517094
I would prefer monero but people are too scared of regulation for it to take off
Ethereum is garbage, and it's not a currency

>>29517432

You fundamentally don't get it. Bitcoin is like a giant game of musical chairs. It's just a means of betting on whether bitcoin itself will "go up" or "go down". It doesn't serve a purpose. There is no reason to buy and hold it except to sell it to someone else who will buy it and hold it to sell to someone else who will buy it and hold it... ad infinitum. Other cryptos can actually do useful things. Bitcoin is an archaic dinosaur that people only "buy and hold" because line go up.

>>29517094
>Monero does what bitcoin wishes it could do
this
I honestly think if you're not getting into Monero now instead of bitcoin you just don't understand crypto.

>>29517094
The only thing bitcoin has going for it is that it's never been compromised. It's battle tested and stood the test of time. But yeah as a technology bitcoin is outdated.

>>29517883
It's a store of value and it's more secure with a longer history of security than anything else. It's not difficult to understand. You FUDders would have more success if you actually acknowledged reality instead of lying and saying BTC is useless.
For billionaires dumping billions of dollars into crypto, they don't care about having a coin that's a little bit faster, or some other "cool" feature, they just want to keep their money safe.

>>29517883
>You fundamentally don't get it.
You're fundamentally a newfaggot. I'm aware of the technical inferiority, but the fact is that companies are buying BItcoin, nothing else. Not Monero, not Ethereum. Maybe Polkadot, but mostly just Bitcoin.

>>29518285
>It's a store of value

This is a retarded meme
It doesn't store value any more than a spreadsheet on my computer stores value. THERE IS NO VALUE TO HOLDING IT. IT'S JUST A DISTRIBUTED SPREADSHEET. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

>>29517928
Simply false: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident

>>29518418
>the fact is that companies are buying BItcoin

because they're trying to play catch up and that's the coin with the name recognition. You can get ahead of the curve and buy cryptos that actually have value, or chase muh bitcoin and realize one day that you paid $50,000 for an entry in a spreadsheet. MUH STORE OF VALUE!

>>29518473
I'm not having another metaphysical debate about the meaning of Value with an obstinate retard who's mad he got in late. If you don't think BTC can have value then your shitcoin #372 cannot have value either.

>>29518703

> I'm not having another metaphysical debate about the meaning of Value
Value it has some use other than the fact that I can sell it to some sucker later for more than I paid for it because he is expecting to find an even bigger sucker. Valuable things produce an income or have some intrinsic property that makes them worth the opportunity cost. Bitcoin is just a distributed spreadsheet. There is no benefit of owning it. Even if you owned ALL THE BITCOIN, would your life change at all?

> with an obstinate retard

Smarter than you, I guarantee it.

> who's mad he got in late.
I'm up 25% and thinking about buying the dip, I just can't bring myself to do it with BTC because it feels retarded.

> If you don't think BTC can have value then your shitcoin #372 cannot have value either.

My shitcoin #372 facilitates smart contracts, or is a privacy coin that allows for anonymous transactions, or gives me access to some network of computers that will do computations for me. Bitcoin does none of these things. It's a spreadsheet that people will pay big bucks to buy an entry in because they hope to sell that entry to someone else.

>>29519189
Stay poor dumbass

>>29517094
because nobody has won that fight yet

Crypto only survives as long as it remains a gambling game to make government currency. The moment it starts creeping into the real world it's all getting shut down. The next time some hip business says they accept bitcoin, remember they are the cause of its death.

>>29517094
btc maxis are retarded and won't let it go
it's like still hanging to aol 2021, pretty stupid imo

>>29518473
no one can overwrite it by fiat like they can with your bank account.
it's infeasible to 10x the supply like the fed just did.
enjoy buying the dip from your fud.

>>29517094
Bitcoin is a guaranteed bet.

Everything else is speculative.

>>29519395

keep "investing" in spreadsheets
bro I just created a brand new spreadsheet on my computer and I'm only adding ONE ROW per year so it's INCREDIBLY SCARCE therefore HIGHLY VALUABLE. I'm selling the first row for $10,000, that is an absolutely STEAL for this kind of STORE OF VALUE. By 2022 people will be paying $100,000 per row of my spreadsheet. What are you waiting for?

>>29519691
The value is the network, retard, not the data point.

>>29519529
>no one can overwrite it by fiat like they can with your bank account.

I can create a spreadsheet, save it to a USB stick, and fire it towards deep space with a rocket. Nobody will be able to modify the spreadsheet and it will be incredibly scarce. Is it valuable? how much will you pay me for a row of my deep space spreadsheet?

>>29519770

Now we are getting somewhere. This is why other cryptos are valuable and bitcoin is not. The only function of the bitcoin network is to record who has how many tokens on the bitcoin network. There is no actual value to having the tokens exception "the network" which just keeps track of the tokens. It's an infinite regression.

Compare this to another token like Ethereum, which - for all its faults - you can actually use to execute smart contracts on the ethereum network That is actually valuable.

>>29519691
>>29519830
You don't understand the fundamental characteristic of Bitcoin which is decentralization and trustlessness.

I am coming for the butcorn maxipads, and they will cry, some will even an hero

>>29520202

I understand these things perfectly well. I'm a software engineer of 21+ years and unironically a genius. You need to take your head out of your ass and think critically.

Decentralization and trustlessness are both neat features... for a currency. If people were buying bitcoin, immediately sending it to another party, and that other party was immediately selling it for fiat, then they would be using bitcoin properly (or at least, for what it's actually supposed to be good for). Using it as "a store of value" is complete nonsense. It doesn't have value EXCEPT AS A MEANS OF EXCHANGE

>>29520539
If you are such a genius why were u a wagie for so long?

>>29520539
>I understand these things perfectly well.

So you're intentionally misrepresenting the features of Bitcoin to bolster your argument?

>I'm a software engineer of 21+ years and unironically a genius

I hope you're smart enough to see why I don't believe you.

>>29517538
I'm gunna need a link for that or some shit.

I am so sick and tired of r*dditspacing newniggers like OP thinking they're smart cause they made a bit of money during a bullrun
Everything he says ITT is absolutely fucking worthless, a 10 years old has a better understanding of economics than this faggot
You who has opened this thread, go back.

>>29520539

>The cotton/paper blend that money is made out of and the fact that it is flammable are both neat features...for a currency. If people were working for money, sending it to a cashier and exchanging it for goods then they would be using money properly (or at least, for what it's actually supposed to be good for). Using it as "a store of value" is complete nonsense. It doesn't have value EXCEPT AS A MEANS OF BUYING GOODS AND SERVICES

>>29520539
> I'm a software engineer of 21+ years and unironically a genius.
Kys

>>29517094
>I was contemplating "buying the dip" on BTC today but I can't bring myself to do it.
Are you me? I know for a fact bitcoin will go higher and maybe even more than some of the shitcoins I own but I can't do it either, knowing there's crypto that's actually useful and functional in comparison to BTC. And if they're all correlated anyways what's the point of holding BTC?

>>29521953
>>29517094
You have failed the IQ test.
Enjoy being a wagie forever, slavebrained faggots.

>>29517094
Retard.

Bitcoin is the new gold but for cryptos
Of course in the 1950s you weren't gonna buy bread, a dinner or a car with gold, but you invest on it so you can get a piece of that sweet profits

Oh this thread again, faggots like you are why I bought only alts in 2017 and got wrecked. Thankfully I've only bought BTC since then and am now doing well, get fucked

>>29522095
i think 250k is realisitic, i just think there are coins that will net me more profit than the dinosaur

>>29518285
Anything can be a store of value you fucking numpty. You might as well say pokemon cards are a store of value. Or a bike. Go and buy a bike, it'll still be a bike in ten years too.

>>29517094
>largest network
>oldest network
>hashpower other networks dont even dream about
>worldwide known brand
>active dev
>large active supporterbase
yeah i think you are wrong.

>>29517432
>12-year old record. Bitcoin has been running for 12 years and it hasn't. Fucking. Failed.

It's failing to keep its hold on the darknet and basically anywhere where fundamentals matter and is currently being replaced by Monero.

>>29522982
>B-B-BUT MY TACOFRESH TOKEN DOES MORE TPS AND HAS SMARD CONTRACT

>>29519189
>It's a spreadsheet that people will pay big bucks to buy an entry in because they hope to sell that entry to someone else.
yes people buy it because it goes up. so do some with gold. does this mean everyone buys it for the same reason? no. you dont seem to understand what price discovery is. you think when gold was first discoverd everyone wanted it? people probably were just as salty as you are now. cant eat shiny stone. shiny stone no function. shiny stone useless.

>>29518285
It doesn't pass tests for being a store of value. Too volatile, among other things.
So please, STFU

Crypto will not flourish until bitcoin is dead. Hard pill to swallow for some, but its the truth.

>>29523522
>It's a bad store of value because the value increases too much

>>29520202
>You don't understand the fundamental characteristic of Bitcoin which is decentralization and trustlessness.

Other fundamental characteristics include no privacy and shit fungibility, which makes it vulnerable to governmental surveillance and blacklisting.

And this is what they expect to become "digital gold" lol

Drugs and gold are both better store of values than bitcoin. People don´t buy bitcoin because they want to store value, no one uses it for that. They buy it because they think it will increase in price.

>>29523568
Volatility is separate from mean returns, but you're not smart enough to know that

>>29523568
a good store of value can be tested for how well you can sleep while having your entire portfolio in that thing. If people genrally can be at peace with that, then it is a good store of value. bitcoin turns most people into nervous addicts

>>29523691
And new technologies don't abide by your old metrics, but you're too busy mentally masturbating yourself to realize that.

>>29523751
Just stop looking at Blockfolio and you won't lose money

>>29517094
Bitcoin is valuable the same reason gold has been valuable for thousands of years. It doesn't need to prove its value to your little peanut brain lol.
Monero on the other hand will be made completely useless once countries ban it on exchanges. FNT is set up to completely overtake it in the next decade or so lol.
/thread

>>29523751
>bitcoin turns most people into nervous addicts

Just that fact that unknowingly receiving tainted Bitcoins could potentially get your address blacklisted and coins seized is reason enough to never use BTC.

Who the fuck needs all that stress when you can just use Monero?

>>29523801
>And new technologies don't abide by your old metrics
This time it's different...

>>29523977
>Who the fuck needs all that stress when you can just use Monero?

Who wants to hold Monero when Janet Yellen can open her blowhole and bankrupt you?

>>29523919
I think gold's valuable because it looks cool.

>>29523919
>Monero on the other hand will be made completely useless once countries ban it on exchanges.

I take it you've never heard of atomic swaps? Even if UNIVERSALLY (unlikely) banned, acquiring and trading Monero will still be as easy as buying Bitcoin on Coinbase.

>>29524048
yes, it is different, because we've never had an asset that rises in value in accordance with Metcalfe's law

>>29519691
you just described a bank bro

>>29522579

So the market was irrational longer than you could remain patient. Many such cases. Bitcoin is still an overpriced spreadsheet.

>>29522095
>145 is a high IQ
I'm 147 IQ and I unironically feel like a retard

>>29524059
>Who wants to hold Monero when Janet Yellen can open her blowhole and bankrupt you?

>>29522737
Like which one?

>>29523397
Except shiny stone not useless. Shiny stone useful for many things and even pretty to look at. I'm not saying buy gold, btw, nor am I saying don't buy crypto. I'm just saying BTC is a lame crypto that only does well because of legacy name recognition. This will fade over time as people realize that it's just not that useful.

>>29524250

Don't listen to what anyone says, that is an open shill invitation. Stick to the safest gains

>>29524232
Still doesn't explain why I would want to hold monero ? Just hold bitcoin and then use the atomic swap to do an anonymized exchange

>>29524143
We still don't

>>29524354
Maybe you don't.

>>29519691
Yeah but can I open in google docs as well as Lotus 123?

>>29524198

there must be a difference between what I described and a bank because people will pay money for shares in a bank and will happily deposit their money in a bank but thus far nobody wants to pay me a dime for a row in my spreadsheet. why is that?

>>29524468
They have a network of users >>29519770

>>29524139
The porpuse of Bitcoin will be to get Monero

>>29524331
>Still doesn't explain why I would want to hold monero?

It keeps you safe from any potential fungibility issues and doesn't require having to acquire an additional set of imperfect mixing skills. There is a reason why darknet veterans dislike Bitcoin and adore Monero.

Also, its poised to become the reserve cryptocurrency of the global shadow economy, major crime syndicates are now starting to move into crypto and they have VERY large revenue streams....just do the math and you'll understand what that means for a coin like Monero.

>Just hold bitcoin and then use the atomic swap to do an anonymized exchange

Why even risk holding Bitcoin when Monero does literally the same thing only without all the privacy and fungibility concerns?

>>29524408
Of course not. I've shorted it

>>29517094
>Everything bitcoin does, other cryptos do better
Doesn’t really matter. Bitcoin is king and will never be flipped. BTC is ~2.5x what it peaked at last bull run but other technologically superior coins like XMR and LTC aren’t. Honest question, what makes you think one of those (or anything else) could flip BTC in the future if they’ve only lost ground to BTC over the last 4 years? I’m not saying any of these other coins/tokens aren’t useful, I’m just wondering what you’re seeing to indicate that anything could overtake BTC?

>>29524945
>Why even risk holding Bitcoin when Monero does literally the same thing only without all the privacy and fungibility concerns?
Because normies are afraid of anonymity and regulation, so they won't put their money in, so the price won't rise. Whatever benefit can be had by holding monero, can be gained by just swapping into monero temporarily.

>>29525171
Price will rise because real world use, don't just some HODL meme.

>>29525326
>Repeating the same point over and over without addressing my response
I can have all the advantages of using monero without holding monero.

>>29525171
>Because normies are afraid of anonymity and regulation, so they won't put their money in, so the price won't rise. Whatever benefit can be had by holding monero, can be gained by just swapping into monero temporarily.

Monero's future growth is projected to come primarily from black money influxes i.e. organized crime adoption, NOT institutional capital or normie investors and analysts actually predict these influxes will push Monero's price upwards of $40K by decade's end. Pic related.

You can read the full analysis here: https://research.bloomberg.com/pub/res/d37g1Q1hEhBkiRCu_ruMdMsbc0A

Or look at it this way: worldwide, organized crime generates ~$2 trillion annually. Monero only needs a $184 billion market cap to be worth $10K.

>>29525392

holding monero gives you all the advantages of holding bitcoin, and bitcoin isn't even useful for transactions like monero is. Bitcoin is basically a big ponzi and your greed is clouding your thought.

>>29520539
>Uses "genius" as an argument for being right
Hey Genius. You're defined by being in the 99th percentile IQ. How many more intelligent people are there that also invested in bitcoin? Probably At least 1000-10000. Is it more likely that you have misunderstood something, or is it more likely that you are completely right, and that millions of people simply haven't understood your genius?
Get over yourself.

You could be right, just highly unlikely. And even do you were, it doesn't mean that it can't be fixed.

You're the one that lacks critical thought.

>>29525769
>buy XMR because organized crime syndicates are going to make number go up
You might be right but good luck convincing the average person to invest because of this

>>29526580

his point is you don't need the average person to invest because organized dark money will drive the price up themselves a lot more than grandma buying xmr

>>29526580
>You might be right but good luck convincing the average person to invest because of this

There are plenty of legitimate applications for Monero as well, its just a fact of life that criminals will adopt the tech that best enables them to conduct their business in a safer and more reliable manner.

In any case, the darknet will eventually be Monero-only so all those normies looking to score online will HAVE to learn to use it.