/biz/ - Business & Finance

It's taxed
But I've read conflicting information
>counted as taxable income
>counted as property tax

>>29345593
The tax is the same regardless, it's a tax on your gains

be less of a cuck, if they cant mail a check in 14 months they aren't going to see your 40$ doge transaction bizlet

>>29345704
if burger: under 1 year hold duration is taxed using standard income tax brackets. if held for over 1 year, rates are reduced

Wrapping BTC is a taxable event

>>29345593
How can these fucks expect me to pay a tax on something in dollars which I've received no receipt of payment on in dollars, or any receipt of a capital gain. They're pulling this shit out of their asses and are making up rules as they go.

What fucking gains though, it's worth the same dollar amount in crypto A as crypto B reeee.
And if crypto B drops that's a loss.
What is the difference between just reporting net gains and losses? I'm tired of adding pages to this fucking ledger

I'm a noob and and a brainlet, getting into trading BSC shitcoins. If I just pop my wallets into koinly and give the report to an accountant they will know what to do with it right?

>>29345593
Crypto to Monero isn't taxable, no.

>>29345917
>They're pulling this shit out of their asses and are making up rules as they go.

yes

>>29346192
they should. koinly will sometimes be unable to determine a market price for some tokens that you'll have to manually edit, but for the most part yeah.
>>29346147
>that's a loss
if you sell, sure.
>>29345917
it's 100% bullshit, but if you trade one crypto for another they're looking at the difference in USD because crypto is defined as property. my strategy is, when selling for a profit, i'm converting shitcoin A into USDC, calculating the estimated tax i'd owe on that, and cashing that amount out before trading for something else.
i'm also a retard so don't take any of this as infallible advice, it's just my understanding of the system

>>29345917
Dude I actually think they have like brain problems.

>>29346425
when i staked a coin they considered that lossing all of it's value on koinly. So for the 2020 year i technically have a capital loss and i dont know if that's right. Do you have any experience there?

>>29346613
i don't, but i've read before that staking is considered income and would fall under standard income tax. doesn't seem like it should've been counted as a loss, but idk for sure. an accountant specializing in crypto's your best bet if you did a lot of anything besides buying/holding desu

What if I literally just don’t pay. They’re running on computers from 25 years ago and they’re dealing with 250,000,000 other retards in this country. What the fuck are they going to do? Flood my mailbox? I literally don’t have one.

>>29345593
It is but it's not enough to even worry about fme

I made dozens of trades this last year with low 4 figures each time and my taxes were next to nothing. We're talking like $20 total for ALL of my trades.

What if you lost your wallet keys? Would that be considered a total loss tax wise?

>>29346225
but how will you explain the huge amount of crypto recieved once you convert your monero?

>>29347268
good idea, but no. It is the same thing as if you sold stock for a profit, cashed it out, and then lost the cash.

what would happen if no one payed crypto tax?

>>29347110
Tail risk. They will catch up to you one day. Do you want a 100k tax bill from SEC 10 years from now?

>>29345593
Anything they want to tax is taxable I’m any way they deem appropriate to tax it. You have no say whatsoever. Don’t like it? Too bad. If you don’t comply they will send men with guns to come get you and put you into a cage. That is if they do t just execute you for their own safety.

>>29347843
how would they know?

>>29348045
how would they know?

>>29345593
go for coins with no fees: NANO/IOTA
or absolute privacy: XMR

>>29348045
I’ll be dead in ten years anyway. I’ll take that risk.

>>29347110
I won't be paying taxes on any gains from any cyrpto. Fuck them .take it to court if I can. We already pay a tax for establishing and maintaining the whole system. They don't do shit.


This is just the beginning though. Eventually gov will ban btc because the elites fear public transactions. Then they would be as exposed as us. Can't have that.

Also don't mind that we could rewrite laws to make a politician have a public watchdog wallet if they want to serve, essentially stamping out corruption. once we make the national currency btc. That would give too much power to the people.


We could have a system where nsa level tech interwoven into a btc crypto society actually improves our country for everyone instead of just being a tool used to spy on us. You think they won't go down fighting ?

>>29345593
I don't want to pay taxes. What do frens?

Why can't IRS niggers just let us play with internet money in peace

>>29347394
>Converting my monero
For what purpose? Once Atomic Swaps release I'll be able to buy all my living expense items directly through XMR. Unless you've got IRS agents snooping around to see when you get groceries, it's indistinguishable from using fiat.

>>29346147
If you bought for 100, then traded your property later for 200 the gain is taxable. Even though your gain is 200 of a different property

what if you lose all your crypto in an unfortunate boating accident? that constantly happens to me. I can't keep myself from taking speedboat joyrides

>>29345880
Kek

Should I transfer all my crypto to monero right before tax time biz?

>>29348458
go on

>>29345593
It is taxable, make sure you trade on non-KYC exchanges.

>>29345593
it can be a taxable event. if you trade out of say coin A for more than you paid for coin A to begin with into coin B you owe taxes on the gain from coin A above the acquisition price that it held when you entered into coin B

what's the word with this shit in canada, leafs?

just don't pay taxes

>>29348550
And if that 200 takes a dive on the reinvestmenr? What's the difference between just reporting all the dollar values at the end of the year?

>>29345593
It is, but just don't tell them. That's my plan. Unless you're gonna get audited, they won't know

>>29349303

I reported my crypto in 2019 and still got audited.

I ended up hiring an accountant to take care of it.

My coins on coinbase pro are obviously kyc and will be taxed. But what about when I move stuff to my coinbase wallet and then trade in uniswap? They wouldn't know about what's in my coinbase wallet beyond the eth I put in, right?

>>29348045
>Do you want a 100k tax bill from SEC 10 years from now?
unironically a good deal if you're a halfway decent investor
the longer it takes them to catch on, the more money you can have made in the meantime by investing the profits that would have gone to them and the easier it'll be to pay

>>29348458
some dude on here was saying he had a relative or some shit in the irs and they said they caught a dude because he had a lot of points on his tesco card

i honestly dont think they give a shit if you only owe a couple grand a year in taxes so much fucking paperwork for a small amount

>>29349488
>coinbase wallet


Coinbase is getting an IPO. They probably want to abide by the law

My plan is just to do a final 1.3x in a blue chip stock and never have to worry about it again.

>>29349844
So should I move my coins to metamask or something?

>>29349392
you got audited? how was it?

>>29349963
His mom made him pay back the $1000 she loaned him

>>29345917
They're scrambling to get on this because if we disregard dollars they have no power over us. This is written on the Australian Tax Office website

"Cryptocurrency generally operates independently of a central bank, central authority or government."
>government

So, I'm operating independently from the government but they still feel entitled to my gains??

>>29349392
bro, reporting your crypto is exactly what makes them want to audit you lol

Also, like the other guy asked, how did it go?

>>29349960

I mean CoinBase is probably the best one to not lose your money & disappear but if you wanna avoid taxes......

>>29350787
Guess I'll just try and skimp till they come after me and hopefully I'm out of the country by then

>>29345704
i'm 90% sure it's income. crypto taxes here are absolutely fucked and of course, we just have a bunch of jews deciding what to do w/ that revenue

>>29350250
I don't get this either. I use binance, so all my shit is going on in China, and the NZ government want a cut of it. It's literally nothing to do with them

>>29348045
Unironically will the United States even exist in ten years.

I made $50k in crypto in 2018 and $70k in salary income, never reported the crypto, even cashed out $20k of it through coinbase, never got a notice from IRS, never got audited or flagged, I literally just told them I don't hold or trade crypto, 3 letter glowniggers can suck my fat fucking chode

>>29345917
Can't make you pay tax if you exchange to monero and take it off the kyc exchanges then exchange to thec ryptos you want

>>29345593
Crypto isn't real of course they can't tax it.

>>29351484
>It's only been 3 years and he thinks he's safe.

They have an infinite amount of time to look at you and go hmmmmm

I'm Canadian and I'm reporting $27k of gains to the CRA. I just really hope they don't audit me or consider it business income and tax me on 100% of the gains instead of 50%.

>>29351689
Either the US stays relevant and I pay the toll later after compounding gains or the US loses its status as a superpower and reserve currency and the IRS becomes as impotant as Joe Biden's penis

>>29345593
what are a lost of based exchanges (one that don’t send a 1099 to the IRS)?

>>29351484
Based but fucked

form an LLC, lower your tax burden by claiming expenses (electricity, rent, etc)

>>29345593
>2021
>paying taxes to KIKES R US
hahaha monero go brrrr

>>29351923
>haha the goonsqsuad won't come for me if the presidency is bad
You really think 10 years down the line the system is just going to give up on going after people like you cause "eh, whatever"?

Can't I just say down the line "I put 5k into crypto and cashed out 50k, tax those profits please daddy"

>>29352174
Yes because by then the United states will be in an advanced state of collapse and they'll have much more important things to worry about.

So you are telling me the IRS will tax unrealized gains?

What if i wanted to trade 10 BMW's for a house?
Not a single penny swapped hands.

>>29352544
>they'll have much more important things to worry about.
ahahahahaaha no
the bureaucracy will always exist
the top levels of gov may have their heads up their asses forever and screw the country on trade and immigration but there will ALWAYS be tens of thousands of middle manager public servants waiting to rape people like you up the ass for power thrills

you ever talk to the I*S on the phone? it's almost all black women. the worse the country gets, the MORE likely shaniqua and tyreshia are going to click the "fuck this guy" checkbox when scrolling through their spreadsheets of people to audit, and there will always people eager goons rushing to put the boots on so they can step on your neck to get it done.

>>29351484
KEK good luck when they do get around to sending you that audit letter. they can audit forever when you tax cheat and even if you are on the up and up in a standard audit if they find a single discrepancy they will go back automatically five years. the IRS has their brutal reputation for a reason

>>29351923
they also compound your penalties retard

>>29352548
unironically congress is already considering allowing this to become law. it's fucking retarded but when you are kiked out beyond belief it's where we are at

>>29352811
Then you just shoot them when they come? Check and mate. Heil hitler

>>29349663
The problem is you're a Bongistani

>>29347560
How the fuck is that the same.

If you lose a gold bar you don’t pay taxes on it as if you sold it. Do you ?

If this is true I’m packing my bags dude.

>>29345916
this cant be real

BREAKING: South Korea to charge 20% crypto tax from 2022

announced on monday

Cost basis calculated as of end-2021.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3vnPzEq-iQ

Not mentioned in the report if this affects people on exchanges outside Korea, but based on their actions so far, the exchanges will probably withhold taxes

>>29351835
won't that just put you on their radar?

>>29345917
Its based on the archaic version of 'taxable event' where any sale of 'stock to stock' (technically impossible) involved holding fiat between. even though there is no intermediary in many crypto transactions, it's taxed as if there is.

>>29353980
What else can I do? I used Shakepay and Coinbase and both have KYC. I made a lot of trades on Uniswap, but I feel like only reporting some trades would be worse than reporting none at all.

>>29345908
that's why they generously gave themselves 10 years to get the job done and fuck you over repeatedly.

just don't tell them lmao like what are you doing?

>>29354217
why don't you just literally tell them nothing, and if they ask (unlikely) just say you haven't cashed out (or bluff and say you've only made losses, and look on coingecko etc to find coins that are down)

>>29354469
>>29354376
I wish i can do this, and i used to but right now im cashing out 6 figures every year in crypto. Not paying taxes is no longer an option once you're dealing with large numbers. Its all good though, Im still earning more than 95% of the entire population

>>29352821
Their reputation was the result of government monopoly on money.

>>29354650
do you think they somehow don't still have massive power or that monopoly over the literal entire globes financial system?

>>29354618
All right true, I didn't know you were cashing out so much. You could possibly get a cayman island bank account or something for those levels

>>29354794
Do you honestly think government has a monopoly on crypto?

>>29346613
If you were providing liquidity, the event is counted as a full loss because you're exchanging tokens for pool tokens, which aren't swappable. When you exchange the pool tokens back, you will have a massive corresponding gain

>>29352093
This is exactly what I'm going to do. I'll even set up a small mining farm for steady income. What I gain in crypto I'll just invest in the business and only pay regular income tax.

>>29350250
Jesus said, "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" the US Dollar is the US government's. But crypto is not. Therefor, Jesus does not say paying taxes on crypto-crypto is just. In fact, because of the governments attempt to ethnically replace our race (via racemixing propaganda and immigration policy). I would say it's wrong to pay taxes on crypto - crypto

>>29355108
To put money in your corporation you'll have to cash out your crypto first and pay taxes on it. Like you're gonna have to pay fucking taxes on it either way and funneling it into a corporation just means you're gonna pay more taxes on it. It makes no sense.

honestly just make an offshore bank account and use that to cash out your crypto. Simpler, more elegant solution

>>29355184
Are swiss bank accounts just memes?

>>29354137
In that case I can see these laws getting amended for crypto once the big intuitional wallets go all in. They won't wanna pay tax on crypto trades either so any loopholes for them will work for us.

>>29348582
this

>>29355320
i dont know, im actually in the process of finding a tax advisor who knows the hush hush shit. Its hard to talk to someone without being pinned as a tax evader. Old money have all the connections so its not as simple as trading on uniswap all day and buying a Bentley. Shit is really constricted if you wanna make your millions clean. IM struggling to do it because im not financially literate. I literally just gambled on shitcoins.

but this doesnt make me rich. Im just a poor man with money

If I hodl do I pay?

In my country not only is it taxable but they have disturbingly accurate records of what you've bought and sold even if it's some relatively new coin

>>29355595
what country?

>>29355618
australia

the tax office has set up some decent crypto tracking systems in the last 2 years and they can tell what you're trading

>>29355720
lol shit, I'm in NZ and we probably have the same thing

I think there's websites that you can pay to figure out all your swaps, that's just what I'm gonna do cuz it seems like a fucking headache otherwise

>>29345593
It's only taxable if they can tie it to you

>>29356156
koinly is free. But i dont use that shit. I just pay the capital gains tax. Do you honestly think revenue boomers know what the fuck a yield farm rice is?

>>29355524
Look, there are lots of ways to reduce your taxes. Holding long term, real estate, moving to a different state, etc. But on some level, at some time, the government will attack you and steal your money. We just have to choose between putting up with it and getting by with the money they allow us to keep, or shooting them. Those are the options. If anyone thinks there's a different option please show me.

Just take a loan using your crypto as collateral. Loans camt be taxed

In 2017 I racked up $100k in credit card depth buying ETH on CEX.
I bought ICO’s , bought stupid Chinese shitcoins, played dumb eth pyramid games, found LINK and pushed 10 BTC also 1 BTC worth of LEND. Ive cashed out local BTC along that run and traded 100’s of eth away into bad trades and losing games.
Last week I met with a tax attorney and cpa last week. I have 8 figures ready to be converted. I live in a no income tax state and have held for long term cap gain eligibility. It hurts my stomach to know I’m gonna give away 20% but if I was trading Im good with a 20% loss and move on to the next , hope for better results. Why am I so pissed?
The main takeaway from my 1 hour with them is IF YOU ARE WILLING TO REPORT AND PAY, you’ll be fine.
Many CPA’s get paid to find loopholes , no different from when reporting other income and ways to help you keep it. My guys aren’t considering aave loans income. Helps me a bunch. I didn’t farm anything just collected yields, roughly $300k since January 2020. Played in the Uniswap shitcoins casino and did a few swaps. My cpa insisted that we need not report everything because chances are they have no idea what they are looking for and you can counter with the definitions were not clear. Bottom line is if it’s under 6 figures youll be ok . If it’s a few Million your better off being a honest citizen and put the fucking $.

>>29345704
it's a capital asset sale in burgerland

>>29349392
you fucked up somehow. i've been reporting every trade since 2013, with 5 figure realized gains so far, and have never been audited

>>29357405
>5 figure gains since 2013

thats why u idiot lol

Come back when youre cashing out 6 figs per year with 7 on the way

>>29357500
my unrealized gains are over $600k, you should be congratulating me for having diamond hands. what I cashed out was about equivalent to the cost of my current stack

god i hate nigger jew taxes

>>29357500
6 and 7s, 3 years now, no audit yet.
I did refuse to pay one year and they took the money out of my bank account after sending 50 letters.

>>29358676
what country?

>>29348309
Because millions of Americans just suck money from taxpayers, doing essentially nothing and are completely terrified of any missed opportunities to ensure they are paid.

>>29351342
it will be the NUSA by then

I’m a proud taxpaying citizen of my country, and have made kind contributions to various charities over the years, so this is purely hypothetical. But, If a government only has a few exchanges that they have by the balls and can run audits on. What exactly is stopping someone who has like 5 bitcoins from just taking it off that exchange and going somewhere without kyc or that has less regulation, and just switching the btc to monero little by little?

If they can’t audit some shady exchange but say “well you at one point owed this many bitcoins so pay us please.” with zero proof. What’s stopping me from saying “yeah well someone hacked my account and I have no clue where that is now or no means of recovering it/I tried to buy drugs for recreational purpose on some random place and got scammed.”? There isn’t really a way to disprove either of those things. The only problem is obviously cashing out.

>>29352548
>>29352946
What in the fuck will happen to crypto if they do that shit?

>>29345593
>be american 2022
>dollar plummets
>crypto naturally worth more
>janet yellen's funny unrealized gain tax surprise
>owe tax on the dollar's failure

>>29358956
usa

>>29359360
as a god-fearing free american whose heart is full of patriotic love for this beautiful country, I can not help but wonder whether you can get off that easily by saying "I lost my hardware wallet in a boating accident" I think what the three letter agency servants will do is "we have irrefutable proof that you bought this much bitcoin at this date and you need to pay this much tax for it" like >>29347560 pointed out.
I mean you can steal a car and if they have security camera footage of you stealing it, they don't need to find the stolen car in your garage to arrest you. main problem imo is when you identified yourself to an exchange and made a transaction you are already fucked.

>>29357230
Thanks bro solid fucking post

>>29359360
what you're describing is a poor person problem. people who actually make it have no problem paying their taxes because then they can use the money however the fuck they want. same goes with anyone with good, stable income who doesn't have to choose between food and rent

with poors, they suddenly get a taste of money and they are like a cat that's raided the cabinet with catnip in it. they can't part with even a few dollars, and they come up with these hair brained schemes to run from the law and live off the grid or in another country - all for a sum of money that's not even life changing and not enough to live off long term. when they money runs out, they're just going to poor again and it's back to square one.

so here's an idea, assuming you live in a 1st world nation. if you made 250k in profits, pay the tax on it and enjoy legal buying a new starter home that will improve the quality of your life greatly. don't upend your life for unimpressive gains

>>29359912
it's also an extremely rich person problem as jeff bezos pays no taxes. if he just knew the pleasure of living as a law abiding citizen getting ass raped of his money.

>>29357230
And here I am worried about 10$ for link

If all my money is in crypto and gains are unrealized would I have to cash out a percentage to pay the tax?

>>29360058
the difference with bezos and the ultra rich is it's 100% legal for them not to pay taxes. tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion

>>29360085
not now but there are reptiles afoot in the government that want it that way
(assuming burger)

>>29360155
Burger. Sucks living in the 3rd world can't even gamble on shitcoins with Binance gotta buy eth on cuckbase and get raped with fees on uni. I hate these govt scumbags so fucking much

How do you report crypto that was bought not as an investment but as a currency? I actually bought quite a bit to buy peptides and don't want to get taxed on that

>>29360264
vpn. it's not that hard guys.

>>29360311
They still need an ID

Wait so even if I leave my crypto on an exchange just ACCOMULATING I still have to pay tax out of my fucking bank account?

>>29356423
I mean let's say I don't feel like cashing out for the next 5 years and will gladly pay taxes when I will cash out ok ok. during the 5 years, do I have to pay anything, because I bought and own btc?

>>29360524
you only pay tax after each sale on the net gain/loss for that specific sale.

>>29360264
Is there an actual reason the government wanted to cuck us off most exchanges? Is it just so they can get their taxes easier? Fuck CZ for bowing down to the U.S. government, he was supposed to be the guy who pissed all over governments interfering with crypto A few years back he was beating off how he was moving binance to a completely unregulated island where he'll service anyone, and now Americans are relegated to a 3rd rate binance with like 20 coins. Thanks U.S. government for making sure we can only buy shit that is a $10b marketcap already. Fuck

>>29360631
if I have been just buying btc and moving it from my binance account to hardware wallet should I pay tax for it? cause technically I have been making a sale I guess buying bitcoin and while it is accumulated at one point I must've transferred to my wallet at a higher price than I initially bought.

>>29348271
move to singapore or have a relative that lives in singapore that can cash out for you and """gift""" you back the money

>>29360738
blame terrorists. all CZ is doing is following anti money laundering and terrorist financing laws. he probably doesn't want to get gitmo'd

>>29360828
buying the BTC is only half the sale, you don't get taxed until you sell the BTC you bought. moving wallets is not selling, but fees are arguably taxable. if you used another capital asset to buy the BTC, then selling the other asset for BTC would be taxable for just the first asset you bought. if you bought the btc with real money, then you don't have to worry about that.

>>29360738
Almost certainly tax reasons or maybe cuz cz is a chink who knows. Nominally it's to "protect" investors but all they've done is protect me from buying BNB at 15. Fucking kikes

>>29352548
no it's literally impossible no matter how much they rub their kike hands together and just shows their utter incompetence that they would even suggest such a stupid idea. Even if it was possible Yellen would be assassinated within a day by any one of a long line of literally any one of the millions of americans with a IRA or 401k

>>29361039
I think I bought BTC with BNB at one point, so I should expect a call from IRS. also by this logic all the BSC shtick is taxable as fuck too. all the 10x 5x made by people is to be taxed, they convert their shitcoins that mooned back to eth, btc or whatever.

>>29361723
any burger who is trading BSC shittokens is breaking the binance terms of service because US citizens cannot trade it, so there's that. but IRS doesn't care what you trade as long as they get paid. and the SEC doesn't care about crypto traders at all, they don't actually enforce any laws even in the stock market.

but if you can't track your cost basis, the worst that can happen is you'll pay more tax than you would if you did keep track of your cost basis. you should seek CPA advice on what the best strategy for you is.

>>29355524
theoretically if you are married and bought 1.33 repeating of course million dollars worth of ALGO right now and quit your job before 2022, and waited until 23 Feb 2022 to take any profit, you could cash out $80,000 every year for the rest of your life completely tax free and without even losing any of your principle investment which you could, by today's tax laws, gift to someone else so they could live a tax free life

>>29361957
I haven't done BSC trading, I only once or twice traded BNB with BTC which seems to be only taxable transaction I made because apparently buying LINK and hodling is not, unless I decide to sell(which I never will).
now I am worried about wtf to do if I decide to cash out two shitcoins I have tho. it will be automatically taxable transaction. I haven't thought in depth about how much of an issue tax would be before I bought them. I guess I will just keep hodling.
it's weird thinking of all the people buy and sell in this board are automatically losing 1/5 of their gainz and yet they are still so happy about it. I am going through a fuck this gay earth type realization. better learned about it now then later when I made over 2000 transactions tho. thanks.

>>29348309
>Why can't IRS niggers just let us play with internet money in peace
Because the ever increasing welfare states that are the western nations, not just USA, need more and more tax money to pay for shit. They can't go after the mega multi-billionaires or even the lesser 9 digit multi-millionaires so they have to get it from somewhere where there is no resistance, the general public.

>>29345917
>making up rules as they go.
Because they can. It's a jewish world, you're just living in it..

>>29360119
lmfao. this is why america is so fucked up. people who think just because they abused their hierarchy it makes it legal.

day of the rope cant come soon enough. btw decentralized economy fixes this

>>29363267
i can't wait to beat the money out of the billionaires

>>29363267
land of the free bro. what a joke. fucking seriously tho. every single thing you do is tracked, every single penny you make gobermant wants a piece of that. and american people defend it because it's the law. what are you a criminal? when the bald lizard does it it's cool tho. lol.